View Full Version : self awareness question


daveddd
11-23-13, 07:17 PM
so it seems a lot of people here are understanding the importance of gaining self awareness, and its importance to adhd

so question, how do you think we were able to hide so much from ourselves, without our 'self' knowing or being aware of it

someothertime
11-23-13, 07:33 PM
there is knowing and there is the process of living...

firstly the way we operate is largely internal.... then cause we often don't get to let it out growing up it gets more internal.

rather than slowing down were speeding up.

we have insights, views, beliefs.... tho there is often little connection with any actions related to that other than verbally. ( will vary based on individual and upbringing. ) - ( there is the hyperfocus exception..... 1 thing....... in great detail......... )

then there's the kicker.... time perception / assumilating it all at the same time.... doesn't really exist for us ( apart from rare brief aha! moments yet even then the next day we often revert inside )....hence the need for tools....

So...... speed......expression......and tools....... to compensate for the lack of perspective / manifestation.


We, by default seek "interest"... excitement..... anomalies...... it's not natural for a human to say to themselves....... I'm gonna slow down......... then when they do.......... without knowing how........... it just doesn't work for us....

dvdnvwls
11-23-13, 10:03 PM
I think I'm conscious in some way of the stuff I hide from myself, or at least conscious of the fact that something is being hidden... or something.

Next part is speculative drivel. Maybe someone has a better explanation.

I believe that I'm able to do some very quick process sort of like "zoning myself out on purpose", a process that I (ab)use in stressful situations - or situations which I suspect might become stressful.

daveddd
11-23-13, 10:22 PM
I think I'm conscious in some way of the stuff I hide from myself, or at least conscious of the fact that something is being hidden... or something.

Next part is speculative drivel. Maybe someone has a better explanation.

I believe that I'm able to do some very quick process sort of like "zoning myself out on purpose", a process that I (ab)use in stressful situations - or situations which I suspect might become stressful.

doesnt sound like speculative drivel

sounds like old fashion dissociation

Unmanagable
11-23-13, 10:29 PM
I feel that for myself:

- Exercising a purposeful and (what I once thought was) "comfortable" avoidance, at times. If I ignore it, it might go away.

- Having been brought up to believe and do things a certain way "because we said so, dammit" - even though I'm no longer under that direct influence, it isn't always easy to shake or avoid.

-All too often, allowing expectations and opinions of others to override my genuine feelings/thoughts kept me from acting on what I recognized. This still gets me on occasion, but a heck of a lot less than it used to.

I always felt the nagging, uncomfortable feelings that something wasn't right, and still do, but now I feel I better recognize it, which allows me a chance to observe it, feel it, learn how to more healthily accept it or deal with it, then grow from there.

Under heavy stress, though, this process is likely to go totally haywire at some point, if not repeatedly. Purposeful breathing helps me recognize and manage my reactive emotions a bit better in most situations. But, that never guarantees I'll respond healthily to my more aware self.

janiew
11-24-13, 01:10 AM
In my case, a lot of it had to do with being distracted and busy... :) ADHD!

davinci10
11-24-13, 01:30 AM
i'm quite well aware of my feelings and what I really want in life. Once my my therapist taught me that i'm allowed to curse anything to anyone in my HEAD to those who dispute me and don't understand me. you're allowed to think anything you want but you can't hurt others.

My whole life when people find my behaviour wrong I would blame myself or the situation, which is good for situation but bad for my confidence. so now I aware of what I can do to get through bad experience.

religion will always indirectly tell you to blame yourself for not being in certain way.

daveddd
11-24-13, 01:36 AM
janie- i think distraction and being busy are ways i use to keep myself at a distance from
myself too

aswin- its good you have such a solid sense of self and self awareness, thats a big problem for a lot of us, barkley lists it as executive function number 1



i feel like a lot of times when my mind is racing , its not racing but running

i used to think to chatter was me just thinking random crap all the time

now i see its strategically placed there to keep my self from conscious awareness

ginniebean
11-24-13, 01:42 AM
I don't see us doing this anymore than anyone else. The process of self awareness is difficult for everyone. We're born the way we are. Site down with someone who has no neurological conditions. Ask them what it's like to be normal. They won't know what to say. For them, normal is normal, they're not even being asked why they do the things they do. In this sense we may have an advantage as we've had to look for answers.

ADHD is our normal.

daveddd
11-24-13, 01:51 AM
I don't see us doing this anymore than anyone else. The process of self awareness is difficult for everyone. We're born the way we are. Site down with someone who has no neurological conditions. Ask them what it's like to be normal. They won't know what to say. For them, normal is normal, they're not even being asked why they do the things they do. In this sense we may have an advantage as we've had to look for answers.

ADHD is our normal.

im not sure we are talking about the same thing, if we are i disagree

im talking about being disconnected from our thoughts, emotions (we are the far end of mindlessness)

i thought it was pretty well documented that we are on the low end of the spectrum of self awareness and emotional intelligence

daveddd
11-24-13, 01:53 AM
i also dont think anybody is born with a conscious self awareness

dvdnvwls
11-24-13, 02:00 AM
I do think that I "zone out"/dissociate, as a sort of stress-defence mechanism, more than the average person does. And I think it reduces my self-awareness. (Well, I guess I should say "duh, that's probably why I do it".)

someothertime
11-24-13, 02:03 AM
I think the line between avoidance and dissociation is a little blurry here and rightly so

ginniebean
11-24-13, 02:03 AM
im not sure we are talking about the same thing, if we are i disagree

im talking about being disconnected from our thoughts, emotions (we are the far end of mindlessness)

i thought it was pretty well documented that we are on the low end of the spectrum of self awareness and emotional intelligence


The term self awareness threw me for a good while. There are two different definitions.

The one used in science means being aware of how we are coming across to others and able to make real time adjustments. This is responding to social cues.

The second definition of self awareness, and what I thought you were talking about is "knowing the self".

If it's the first, I didn't realise you were talking about that.

Emotional intelligence is about the ability to be socially restrained with ones emotional output. I don't lack intelligence, I lack ability.



I'm not sure what you mean about being disconnected from thoughts, and also from emotions. Can you speak a bit more about this so I get your meaning?

Thanks.

daveddd
11-24-13, 02:12 AM
we have quite a bit of difference in our definitions of things

emotional intelligence is also recognizing and regulating emotions in yourself or others

the worst end being "alexthymia" i remember having a thread on it, you said you indentify with it

daveddd
11-24-13, 02:15 AM
also relating to how you said you tend to tuck things to the far corners of your mind

ginniebean
11-24-13, 02:17 AM
I don't remember. :(

janiew
11-24-13, 02:22 AM
I don't know, Dave, that's a tough one.

ADHD as a defense mechanism vs. ADHD as a neurological/physical/whatever issue. Maybe it's helpful to look at the other defense mechanisms we use individually to answer that question.

Maybe genetic testing will provide better answers - along with more questions along the same line.

ginniebean
11-24-13, 02:25 AM
also relating to how you said you tend to tuck things to the far corners of your mind
Sometimes I can't see what's staring me in the face no matter how hard I try and see it. Then one day, like a smack to the noggin, I get it.

daveddd
11-24-13, 02:25 AM
there is no versus

daveddd
11-24-13, 02:40 AM
I don't know, Dave, that's a tough one.

ADHD as a defense mechanism vs. ADHD as a neurological/physical/whatever issue. Maybe it's helpful to look at the other defense mechanisms we use individually to answer that question.

Maybe genetic testing will provide better answers - along with more questions along the same line.

its always both

it you have biological issues the mind will put up defences

barkley believes inattention is a result of emotional regulation issues

janiew
11-24-13, 02:47 AM
Yes, I understand. It is biological/structural or emotional or both?

I posted on your related thread about my experience with psychotherapy. I found therapy to be highly beneficial in learning about myself and reframing some of the ways I think - my thinking can be somewhat rigid even if it's fluid in the overall sense.

daveddd
11-24-13, 02:51 AM
Emotion part is tough. It's thought we are born sensitive to emotion ( low frustration tolerance). So some think that plays a part in making emotional regulation difficult

I don't think they figured it out yet

someothertime
11-24-13, 02:53 AM
thought soup.... means your not present...

we know... it is the connection to the emotional, the click and then... the steady awareness / translation of that point that's missing... why, cause the click is internal. And it's clicking a different tune now.

the amount of times we've heard or thought of topics... we say yes.... tho' the click isn't there... the spark that's required in our default mode to "get it"...

so... the reference to self awareness in the OP... is a "sidestepping" of the click. with no thought soup... or at least... thoughts without intensity... one's deeper needs arise.

then comes the whole topic of practice. i knowing something without practising it really knowing it...? so... that is the third element...

quiet soup
real applications - without intesity ( direction )
and the most important piece.... rewiring a brain to be still and undertake out of deeper need, rather than higher fusion.

ginniebean
11-24-13, 02:54 AM
I don't know what are real emotions and which ones are social protocols that people invent from conditioning. If I'm not responding to a faux emotion am I lacking emotional intelligence or is the person who is broadcasting a fake emotion lacking emotional intelligence.

Are all feelings emotions? Or are some feelings inventions? People get offended by all sorts of ridiculous stuff, Is me being able to twist myself up about it emotionally intelligent?

All of these questions, I don't have an answer to.

What I do see is the there is a socially agreed upon action/reaction formation. And there are events that cause legitimate alarm, and legitimate events that cause no alarm in an abnormal way.

daveddd
11-24-13, 02:58 AM
thought soup.... means your not present...

we know... it is the connection to the emotional, the click and then... the steady awareness / translation of that point that's missing... why, cause the click is internal. And it's clicking a different tune now.

the amount of times we've heard or thought of topics... we say yes.... tho' the click isn't there... the spark that's required in our default mode to "get it"...

so... the reference to self awareness in the OP... is a "sidestepping" of the click. with no thought soup... or at least... thoughts without intensity... one's deeper needs arise.

then comes the whole topic of practice. i knowing something without practising it really knowing it...? so... that is the third element...

quiet soup
real applications - without intesity ( direction )
and the most important piece.... rewiring a brain to be still and undertake out of deeper need, rather than higher fusion.


Thank you

Yes

janiew
11-24-13, 03:07 AM
Are all feelings emotions? Or are some feelings inventions? People get offended by all sorts of ridiculous stuff, Is me being able to twist myself up about it emotionally intelligent?

All of these questions, I don't have an answer to.

We are ALL grappling with these questions. The NTs just don't get as fixated us.

Here's another question: If I have ADHD and am oblivious to some things, how is it I become fixated on other things.

We are obviously not clueless about everything. Speaking for myself anyway. :)

daveddd
11-24-13, 03:10 AM
I don't know what are real emotions and which ones are social protocols that people invent from conditioning. If I'm not responding to a faux emotion am I lacking emotional intelligence or is the person who is broadcasting a fake emotion lacking emotional intelligence.

Are all feelings emotions? Or are some feelings inventions? People get offended by all sorts of ridiculous stuff, Is me being able to twist myself up about it emotionally intelligent?

All of these questions, I don't have an answer to.

What I do see is the there is a socially agreed upon action/reaction formation. And there are events that cause legitimate alarm, and legitimate events that cause no alarm in an abnormal way.
primary emotion- fear anger disugust surprise sad happy

social emotions- sympathy embarrassment shame pride gratitude jealous contempt

someothertime
11-24-13, 03:10 AM
It's the other way around.


I become fixated on other things cause they offer the emotional connection
THEN
I am oblivious to many other things

without the click... there is no understanding... just thoughts

daveddd
11-24-13, 03:19 AM
yes barkley says we have issues with connecting emotion to experience

janiew
11-24-13, 03:36 AM
I have a theory that ADHD is on the far end of autism - like hard core autism at 0 and ADHD at 10 - or whatever. No judgment here even if my scale is not politically correct. :)

Call me crazy, but it might explain some of our (ADHD) quest to understand and participate in what is considered "normal" when it doesn't come naturally.

(And who said "normal" and "naturally" are such a good thing? Look at the NT world... have they done such a great job running the show?)

I'm not advocating a Non-NT take-over or anything, but maybe we can help provide some balance - without judging ourselves so harshly.

Yep, this is a different spin...

janiew
11-24-13, 03:40 AM
Basically, instead of judging ourselves so harshly, we should accept who we are and the good we can contribute - because it's not all bad. We, as individuals, might have ADHD for different reasons.

This is where the self-acceptance and emotional intelligence issues come into play. Learning to honor ourselves and deal with society.

Over and out.

stef
11-24-13, 04:44 AM
no i was always very self aware
i thought i was terribly flawed and hid this from everyone
i am just so relieved....it was like living a double life sometimes.

janiew
11-24-13, 05:00 AM
no i was always very self aware
i thought i was terribly flawed and hid this from everyone
i am just so relieved....it was like living a double life sometimes.

Understand. This is what I think this thread is basically what about.

someothertime
11-24-13, 08:01 AM
it is the connection to the emotional, the click

why, cause the click is internal

apart from rare brief aha! moments yet even then the next day we often revert inside )....hence the need for tools....


More.... hehehe....

Just reading over this and maybe i'm saying the same thing in a different way...but the phrase;

"Must come from us".... comes to mind....

almost like we have to make some sort of judgement or emotional connection for something to register...it's that click again...... but importantly... it's "coming from us"......

This ties into mindfullness / self awareness... cause once we gain a little experience of it.... it hits a very similar level if not deeper case the transience is part of the beauty..... ( which feeds into living style / ongoing practice )..... although it's less of a judgement and "click" but more of a broad warm acceptance....

In any event it hits the emotional center..... Yes.... there are opposing thoughts on mindfullness and the absence of emotion..... maybe connectedness is a better term.....


Anyways.... just throwing that in. So the "Must come from us" gets transformed into allowed to reach us untainted.... or joining experience with soul sans mind ( well the mind is there hehehe....... just bound and gagged ;) JOKING! ).

daveddd
11-24-13, 08:20 AM
yes must come from us

barkley puts it "self directed act"

he mentions the inability to attach emotion to an experience

past, present . future

daveddd
11-24-13, 08:33 AM
We are ALL grappling with these questions. The NTs just don't get as fixated us.

Here's another question: If I have ADHD and am oblivious to some things, how is it I become fixated on other things.

We are obviously not clueless about everything. Speaking for myself anyway. :)

Basically, instead of judging ourselves so harshly, we should accept who we are and the good we can contribute - because it's not all bad. We, as individuals, might have ADHD for different reasons.

This is where the self-acceptance and emotional intelligence issues come into play. Learning to honor ourselves and deal with society.

Over and out.

im not judging myself harshly for any specific thing really

i realize im going to be different in some ways

but i feel like the physical issues i have that are different, led to some , lets say coping mechanisms that arent physical

science and data point to that happening in most of adhd adults, beyond the scope of random anxiety and mood disorders

i feel like i have to unlearn those, before i can help myself help anyone else

peripatetic
11-24-13, 09:18 AM
so it seems a lot of people here are understanding the importance of gaining self awareness, and its importance to adhd

so question, how do you think we were able to hide so much from ourselves, without our 'self' knowing or being aware of it

do you mean people with adhd or do you mean how are we as persons able to hide so much from ourselves?

there are a variety of thoughts on how that works. i would propose that there's no single universal reason people are able to. surely there are people who dissociate to accomplish being able to manage living life as best they can. for some i would say it's to some degree a matter of convention...we are able to hide so much from ourselves because we have grown up in a culture that doesn't emphasize it and just to keep the pace we don't always have the time or wherewithal or desire to perform self analysis that would reveal contradictions in our idea and our actions or within our frameworks generally. sometimes it's a matter of necessity. we are constantly taking a perspective with what we're dealing with. we omit what we can't address at a given moment for whatever reason as a coping mechanism.

there are also conditions that result in compromised insight, but i'm assuming that's not what you're talking about here.

back to being able to hide from selves... sometimes i think it's self preservation...sometimes it's ignorance and not so much willfully hiding as not realizing what's hidden.

soz for the discombobulated answer but hope it makes some sense.

MX2012
11-24-13, 01:06 PM
so it seems a lot of people here are understanding the importance of gaining self awareness, and its importance to adhd

so question, how do you think we were able to hide so much from ourselves, without our 'self' knowing or being aware of it

Hi Davedd:

I am looking at your question a bit differently.

For most of my youth, what I presented to the public was a unkept, scatter-brained child. What people reflected back was that I had no value. I accepted their evaluation without any understanding of this process except for one thing, I was confused because I did not agree with their assessment. But, I did accept to a degree that I had no value.

At some point in my life, I was probably around 14, it dawned on me, "who are these people that can claim to label me as valueless?" I looked at them family, neighbors, teachers, students and they were just people, no one with any special gift for evaluation. So, that was the moment I decided I had value. It was a long struggle to determine for myself what value I had --

Here's another incident. I was in therapy (not for ADD/HD, I had not been diagnosed yet). I liked my therapist. I felt we had a productive, constructive relationship.

I came into the session with a situation I wanted to discuss. As the session went on, I felt the therapist did not like my solution. I left the session feeling bad. But because the therapist had let me tape the session, I listened to it later. I was wrong. She had not given me any negative feedback regarding my solution. I was the one who turned the situation negative.

That realization was a profound moment for me. I played a big role in making situations seem negative. But, you are talking about coming to a realization at around the age of 45. I do not think I deliberately deceived myself. I feel that I had not learned how to read my own mind, how to understand my own emotional processes. I think that is a bit different.

daveddd
11-24-13, 01:09 PM
thats a good point MX

thanks

i dont think we are that far off

daveddd
11-24-13, 01:12 PM
do you mean people with adhd or do you mean how are we as persons able to hide so much from ourselves?

there are a variety of thoughts on how that works. i would propose that there's no single universal reason people are able to. surely there are people who dissociate to accomplish being able to manage living life as best they can. for some i would say it's to some degree a matter of convention...we are able to hide so much from ourselves because we have grown up in a culture that doesn't emphasize it and just to keep the pace we don't always have the time or wherewithal or desire to perform self analysis that would reveal contradictions in our idea and our actions or within our frameworks generally. sometimes it's a matter of necessity. we are constantly taking a perspective with what we're dealing with. we omit what we can't address at a given moment for whatever reason as a coping mechanism.

there are also conditions that result in compromised insight, but i'm assuming that's not what you're talking about here.

back to being able to hide from selves... sometimes i think it's self preservation...sometimes it's ignorance and not so much willfully hiding as not realizing what's hidden.

soz for the discombobulated answer but hope it makes some sense.

i think the more we arent with the moment , the more we hide from ourselves

the more mentally unhealthy we are

as freud stated, the pushing away from consciousness is the root of all defences

Flory
11-24-13, 03:03 PM
i might be barking up the wrong tree here daveddd, but this is how i view it....sometimes i think self realisation is something that can take years to achieve...the 'who i am, what i stand for ,what my strengths and weaknesses are' type stuff..


for me i think it was self protective...i forced myself for years into situations ,relationships, jobs, courses which were outright dangerous to me and my self-esteem (unable to care for myself properly because it took so much effort to be involved in/participate), and i felt a massive weight on my shoulders to succeed because i have a fairly successful family PHD'S and MA'S flying about all over the place....

my need to feel like i fit in and was accepted forced me to suppress and not acknowledge my massive impairment and deny my condition to the point where i made myself bankrupt and homeless.....when i hit that rock bottom it was humbling but also very sad ....

realising what others had seen and fret over in myself for years and giving up aspirations to match or better the achievements of those around me whilst a weight off my shoulders made me very depressed.

for a long time and still even to this day i dont know what to wake up for :( but knowing who i am and my self awareness of my condition is getting better every day...im getting stronger...and accepting help that i should have been given in my formative years...i actually feel better in myself for it but a part of me is still clinging on for life to the idea that i dont need help etc because i do still feel a great sense of shame and embarrassment about my problems...

for me i think ultimately its self protection and pride that kept me from being self aware...there is still a great deal i need to unwrap about myself but im taking it step by step... i remember hearing barkley saying in a lecture that often in adhd there is a lack of awareness of impairment and that often the most reliable source regarding symptoms and impairment was still the family/informant questionairres way into late 20's and that this is a skill that is delayed in people with ADHD

daveddd
11-24-13, 03:32 PM
Nice post flory


Barkley does recognize an impairment in self awareness

MX2012
11-24-13, 11:26 PM
i might be barking up the wrong tree here daveddd, but this is how i view it....sometimes i think self realisation is something that can take years to achieve...the 'who i am, what i stand for ,what my strengths and weaknesses are' type stuff..


for me i think it was self protective...i forced myself for years into situations ,relationships, jobs, courses which were outright dangerous to me and my self-esteem (unable to care for myself properly because it took so much effort to be involved in/participate), and i felt a massive weight on my shoulders to succeed because i have a fairly successful family PHD'S and MA'S flying about all over the place....

my need to feel like i fit in and was accepted forced me to suppress and not acknowledge my massive impairment and deny my condition to the point where i made myself bankrupt and homeless.....when i hit that rock bottom it was humbling but also very sad ....

realising what others had seen and fret over in myself for years and giving up aspirations to match or better the achievements of those around me whilst a weight off my shoulders made me very depressed.

for a long time and still even to this day i dont know what to wake up for :( but knowing who i am and my self awareness of my condition is getting better every day...im getting stronger...and accepting help that i should have been given in my formative years...i actually feel better in myself for it but a part of me is still clinging on for life to the idea that i dont need help etc because i do still feel a great sense of shame and embarrassment about my problems...

for me i think ultimately its self protection and pride that kept me from being self aware...there is still a great deal i need to unwrap about myself but im taking it step by step... i remember hearing barkley saying in a lecture that often in adhd there is a lack of awareness of impairment and that often the most reliable source regarding symptoms and impairment was still the family/informant questionairres way into late 20's and that this is a skill that is delayed in people with ADHD

Flory -- we only live once, praise yourself -- you survived, look at your talents, skills, abilities.... no matter how small and pat yourself on the back.

Have you read "What is Color Your Parachute?" by Richard Bolles. I do not suggest this because you may be looking for a job but if you try some of the exercises, I feel they get you to think outside the box and sometimes that can be fun.

Good luck.

daveddd
11-26-13, 01:08 PM
yes barkley says we have issues with connecting emotion to experience

im doing it

a crossover from barkleys inability to connect positive feelings to future goals, to mediation techniques

this is specific to that executive function

its nothing spectacular or anything

but the connection needs made

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpY5dUnYPH0

MX2012
11-26-13, 01:21 PM
thats a good point MX

thanks

i dont think we are that far off

Daveddd-- agreed, I usually have to go around the barn to get where I need to be.

daveddd
11-26-13, 02:48 PM
I have a theory that ADHD is on the far end of autism - like hard core autism at 0 and ADHD at 10 - or whatever. No judgment here even if my scale is not politically correct. :)

Call me crazy, but it might explain some of our (ADHD) quest to understand and participate in what is considered "normal" when it doesn't come naturally.

(And who said "normal" and "naturally" are such a good thing? Look at the NT world... have they done such a great job running the show?)

I'm not advocating a Non-NT take-over or anything, but maybe we can help provide some balance - without judging ourselves so harshly.

Yep, this is a different spin...



you may like this then


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=thomas%20brown%20top%20down%20emotion%20regulati on%20adhd&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adhd.is%2Fstatic%2Ffiles%2Fgr einasafn%2Fglaerur_Tok_a_tilveru%2F20.ppt&ei=P6KCUv6ZD4-E2wX7qID4BA&usg=AFQjCNHcXYFfPh0dKEAYzSFYBVa1UxM2Xg&sig2=hW0rnWvVP75XDMBWv26FMw

MX2012
11-27-13, 02:13 AM
you may like this then


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=thomas%20brown%20top%20down%20emotion%20regulati on%20adhd&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adhd.is%2Fstatic%2Ffiles%2Fgr einasafn%2Fglaerur_Tok_a_tilveru%2F20.ppt&ei=P6KCUv6ZD4-E2wX7qID4BA&usg=AFQjCNHcXYFfPh0dKEAYzSFYBVa1UxM2Xg&sig2=hW0rnWvVP75XDMBWv26FMw

Hi Davedd:

Very interesting slide show. Very informative.

I recognize many of the issues raised in the slide show. Over time, I developed a method to deal with my emotions. I distance myself from others.

To illustrate what happens if I do not distance myself.

I am peripherally involved with a local group. I choose not to get to involved because they are the "garden club" type, meaning they believe they are the gatekeepers, the standard bearers of society, they deem who can be included in their group but they don't mind charming others to do work for them.

I knew this. My distancing was working. I was not emotionally affected by their cliquishness. But, then they stole an idea of mine and did not acknowledge my contribution. This was not a little idea. Their solution for overlooking my contribution was insulting. While I tried to be gracious, I made a snippy remark and then I was offended when one of the "leaders" made fun of another of my ideas just because it had not worked for him. I did not express negativity at the time. But, after I left, I was angry. It has been years since I was this angry. It was scary.

I talked it out with myself and sought an equilibrium and after a few days where I purposefully did not interact with others, I returned to my old self. But, it was such an illustration of why I keep a distance from others. Why I do not let people get close. When people get close they want something, something I often did not imply I was capable of giving, they make assumptions.

So, I guess you could say, I fit the bill.

daveddd
11-27-13, 10:26 AM
Hi Davedd:

Very interesting slide show. Very informative.

I recognize many of the issues raised in the slide show. Over time, I developed a method to deal with my emotions. I distance myself from others.

To illustrate what happens if I do not distance myself.

I am peripherally involved with a local group. I choose not to get to involved because they are the "garden club" type, meaning they believe they are the gatekeepers, the standard bearers of society, they deem who can be included in their group but they don't mind charming others to do work for them.

I knew this. My distancing was working. I was not emotionally affected by their cliquishness. But, then they stole an idea of mine and did not acknowledge my contribution. This was not a little idea. Their solution for overlooking my contribution was insulting. While I tried to be gracious, I made a snippy remark and then I was offended when one of the "leaders" made fun of another of my ideas just because it had not worked for him. I did not express negativity at the time. But, after I left, I was angry. It has been years since I was this angry. It was scary.

I talked it out with myself and sought an equilibrium and after a few days where I purposefully did not interact with others, I returned to my old self. But, it was such an illustration of why I keep a distance from others. Why I do not let people get close. When people get close they want something, something I often did not imply I was capable of giving, they make assumptions.

So, I guess you could say, I fit the bill.

yea, im avoidant myself

i really like that power point, i wish it was more common knowledge

from some reason emotional issues in adhd tend to be ignored or assigned a comorbidity

as adults its probably the most important issue

janiew
11-30-13, 05:27 PM
Hi Davedd:

Very interesting slide show. Very informative.

I recognize many of the issues raised in the slide show. Over time, I developed a method to deal with my emotions. I distance myself from others.

To illustrate what happens if I do not distance myself.

I am peripherally involved with a local group. I choose not to get to involved because they are the "garden club" type, meaning they believe they are the gatekeepers, the standard bearers of society, they deem who can be included in their group but they don't mind charming others to do work for them.

I knew this. My distancing was working. I was not emotionally affected by their cliquishness. But, then they stole an idea of mine and did not acknowledge my contribution. This was not a little idea. Their solution for overlooking my contribution was insulting. While I tried to be gracious, I made a snippy remark and then I was offended when one of the "leaders" made fun of another of my ideas just because it had not worked for him. I did not express negativity at the time. But, after I left, I was angry. It has been years since I was this angry. It was scary.

I talked it out with myself and sought an equilibrium and after a few days where I purposefully did not interact with others, I returned to my old self. But, it was such an illustration of why I keep a distance from others. Why I do not let people get close. When people get close they want something, something I often did not imply I was capable of giving, they make assumptions.

So, I guess you could say, I fit the bill.

This sounds like an example of the ADHD impulsiveness that can affect social and work relationships.

Been there, done that, and am trying to get a grip. Though I am fairly successful, it is a DAILY challenge. The thing that works for me is being an expert in my field, not being too mean when I am insulted, and basically showing people I have a good heart. Otherwise, I'd be doomed!!!

It involves daily effort to look at the big picture of what we are trying to accomplish and not let stupid sh*t derail us. It also involves understanding of ourselves and empathy for others.

This is one aspect of executive function.

janiew
11-30-13, 06:58 PM
My sister sent me an interesting article from one of her friends (who is a mother with two children autism) about how autism might be a response - i.e. defense mechanism - to being overly sensitive.

I will find it and share. Made some level of sense to me.

MX2012
12-01-13, 12:33 AM
This sounds like an example of the ADHD impulsiveness that can affect social and work relationships.

Been there, done that, and am trying to get a grip. Though I am fairly successful, it is a DAILY challenge. The thing that works for me is being an expert in my field, not being too mean when I am insulted, and basically showing people I have a good heart. Otherwise, I'd be doomed!!!

It involves daily effort to look at the big picture of what we are trying to accomplish and not let stupid sh*t derail us. It also involves understanding of ourselves and empathy for others.

This is one aspect of executive function.

Hi Janiew -- I agree. This group just pushed a button. They are good at that -- I think I have a reputation for being level-headed and calm. People do occasionally see flashes of my abundant enthusiasm.

I am over my fit. It's been a long time. I had forgotten how I react to that kind of thing. I believe out every negative comes a positive.

MX2012
12-01-13, 12:36 AM
This sounds like an example of the ADHD impulsiveness that can affect social and work relationships.

Been there, done that, and am trying to get a grip. Though I am fairly successful, it is a DAILY challenge. The thing that works for me is being an expert in my field, not being too mean when I am insulted, and basically showing people I have a good heart. Otherwise, I'd be doomed!!!

It involves daily effort to look at the big picture of what we are trying to accomplish and not let stupid sh*t derail us. It also involves understanding of ourselves and empathy for others.

This is one aspect of executive function.

janiew -- I can see how the mind could get a sensory overload and develop a method to deal with it.

daveddd
12-01-13, 12:41 AM
janiew -- I can see how the mind could get a sensory overload and develop a method to deal with it.

yep and for us include emotional contagion as a "sense" that gets overloaded

Daydreamin22
12-01-13, 01:59 AM
For me, I didn't know what to think. confused, and not knowing I was confused. I just went with it, though. attributing them to other things. For the most part. 11th grade and college would have been nice to know what I know now ab tons of things in general.

MX2012
12-01-13, 11:32 AM
For me, I didn't know what to think. confused, and not knowing I was confused. I just went with it, though. attributing them to other things. For the most part. 11th grade and college would have been nice to know what I know now ab tons of things in general.

Daydreamin22 -- I do understand how you feel -- "confused and not knowing I was confused" .... been there, done that -- but be thankful that you have the knowledge now and you know seeking knowledge about how to live and enjoy life never ends.

janiew
12-08-13, 10:03 PM
Hey, ya'll, didn't mean to bail on the topic because it is important.

I can't speak for everyone, but heightened sensory perception (of all types) and the need to tone it down could definitely result in defense mechanisms to detract from the stimuli.

However, I think we all have to deal with perception. NT and non-NT. Non-NT might deal differently.

What if the NTs in the world were the ones in denial?

Interesting question and I hope people will respond. Regards!!!

someothertime
12-08-13, 10:28 PM
Gee dave... what began with a reasonable question seems to have triggered much that is associated with our condition.

Maybe, you have made a statement. That self awareness "ignorance" IS the centre of ADHD. Let's phrase that better... That transience is the root. As others have eluded to it's also positive.

Accepting views that you do not hold.
Detachment from many things.
The list goes on.

I think of anxiety as a comorbid condition... and wonder how many simply developed this from utter "non-identity" rather than "reactive" effects...

How many times did I leave parties in my teenage years ( almost always )... was that primarily sensory?

So, perhaps hide... is not the right word... absence... absence of the whole...


So, this question really splits... to awareness... the kind that applies to beliefs... and awareness... the kind that applies to action. I believe these two are fairly connected in an NT.

janiew
12-08-13, 10:45 PM
Think this thread has come full circle in a convoluted ADHD way. :) And I am happy to have contributed to it.

We are not NT but try to frame our reference in an NT way because we feel the human need to fit in. Hence the anxiety.

Many of us here on the adult forum are too old to have been diagnosed as children and benefit from the appropriate treatment. Those of us who survived on whatever level can help others.

When we realize the non-NT way is okay without moral judgment - perhaps even advantageous in some ways, i.e. accept ourselves - we can move on and continue helping others who are like us.

Cheers!

janiew
12-08-13, 10:48 PM
By the way, you guys are awesome! And I'm glad I found this place.

daveddd
12-09-13, 07:05 AM
Gee dave... what began with a reasonable question seems to have triggered much that is associated with our condition.

Maybe, you have made a statement. That self awareness "ignorance" IS the centre of ADHD. Let's phrase that better... That transience is the root. As others have eluded to it's also positive.

Accepting views that you do not hold.
Detachment from many things.
The list goes on.

I think of anxiety as a comorbid condition... and wonder how many simply developed this from utter "non-identity" rather than "reactive" effects...

How many times did I leave parties in my teenage years ( almost always )... was that primarily sensory?

So, perhaps hide... is not the right word... absence... absence of the whole...


So, this question really splits... to awareness... the kind that applies to beliefs... and awareness... the kind that applies to action. I believe these two are fairly connected in an NT.

the beginning of a "spectrum" of mental unhealth/suffering

Daydreamin22
12-09-13, 07:35 AM
Because... Some of our memories and the emotions that go along with them are under the awareness line in our brain. The basement of our brain is where the memories that well never know are, but they still effect the way we feel and what we do.

So... If at one point you were overwhelmed with emotions and things kept happening and you literally "couldn't take it" those memories have been repressed, and you continue to have remnants of the feelings and you'll act on them without knowing why. Sometimes a suppressed memory will be recovered.

It's happened to me after trauma at work. it's such a weird feeling. You can't even remember when you got the memory even a minute later. It's not like you all of a sudden realize something, it's that you've known it all along and you just began thinking about it like normal, no emotions really yet.

Then you realize you are thinking of something very significant and you realize you haven't thought about it since the day it happened and so you would think it didn't " impact" you, and now you have to deal with it and wish you'd never remembered.

BUT in reality, that suppressed memory has been effecting you and your actions/emotions/self esteem no matter how subtly, the worse or better the event, or how young you are, it all forms you. Therapists help you understand deep things like that.

Kind of rambly, sorry.

I hope that makes sense.

daveddd
12-09-13, 07:37 AM
Because... Some of our memories and the emotions that go along with them are under the awareness line in our brain. The basement of our brain is where the memories that well never know are, but they still effect the way we feel and what we do.

So... If at one point you were overwhelmed with emotions and things kept happening and you literally "couldn't take it" those memories have been repressed, and you continue to have remnants of the feelings and you'll act on them without knowing why. Sometimes a suppressed memory will be recovered . It's happened twice to me it's such a weird feeling. You can't even remember when you got the memory even a minute later. It's not like you all of a sudden realize something, it's that you've known it all along and you just began thinking about it like normal, no emotions really, until you realize you are thinking of something very significant and you realize you haven't thought about it since the day it happened and so you would think it didn't " impact" you, and now you have to deal with it and wish you'd never remembered. BUT in reality, that suppressed memory has been effecting you and your actions/emotions/self esteem no matter how subtly, the worse or better the event, or how young you are, it all forms you. Therapists help you understand deep things like that.

Kind of rambly, sorry.

What was I even talking ab in the beginning

not rambling at all

its perfect

Daydreamin22
12-09-13, 07:43 AM
Thanks! Really great to hear! :)

BellaVita
12-09-13, 07:47 AM
wow, this thread is so insightful

daveddd
12-09-13, 07:50 AM
Thanks! Really great to hear! :)

there is always an "action" to a reaction

a lot of times we cant pinpoint the "scene"

but its there, separated from the self by defenses


occasionally defenses may break down and we can see it

certain substances or even while we sleep (dreams), there is no defenses in our dreams

daveddd
12-09-13, 07:54 AM
one other way is possible, im beginning to find

or i may be manic

with a like minded individual, very likeminded, they can sometimes see the things for you

projective identification in a way

sometimes we can learn about ourselves more from others, than from ourselves

BellaVita
12-09-13, 08:00 AM
one other way is possible, im beginning to find

or i may be manic

with a like minded individual, very likeminded, they can sometimes see the things for you

projective identification in a way

sometimes we can learn about ourselves more from others, than from ourselves

realizations when manic :lol:

So profound aren't they

But I dunno...your thoughts seem accurate (based on what I've observed in life)

We often don't like things we see in others, that we don't like in ourselves

Some sort of projection?

I'm reading through trying to follow this conversation....

daveddd
12-09-13, 08:02 AM
realizations when manic :lol:

So profound aren't they

But I dunno...your thoughts seem accurate (based on what I've observed in life)

We often don't like things we see in others, that we don't like in ourselves

Some sort of projection?

I'm reading through trying to follow this conversation....

to be clear though, these arent my thoughts

my phrasings maybe , but just what ive read

Daydreamin22
12-09-13, 08:05 AM
there is always an "action" to a reaction

a lot of times we cant pinpoint the "scene"

but its there, separated from the self by defenses


occasionally defenses may break down and we can see it

certain substances or even while we sleep (dreams), there is no defenses in our dreams

That's so good to know. It's pretty scary to try to think about actions caused by reactions, bc it would just get so real. Hence the need for defenses. But, it seems like you would grow and develop character by being self aware(if you care ab how you effect yourself/others and hope it's all for the better). Very cool about dreams. I'm sure I'm going to start analyzing mine, now.


P.S. I relate to the hypomanic epiphanies. All of a sudden before I know it's totally clear. It all makes sense. It's like I have to talk to someone after realizing whats gone on. I think of so much to do ab it asap. Then I remember it's 3am.

daveddd
12-09-13, 08:09 AM
That's so good to know. It's pretty scary to try to think about actions caused by reactions, bc it would just get so real. Hence the need for defenses. But, it seems like you would grow and develop character by being self aware(if you care ab how you effect yourself/others and hope it's all for the better). Very cool about dreams. I'm sure I'm going to start analyzing mine, now.

thats freud, who i know most people dont think much of, but i dont know

his work on the unconscious, defense mechanisms and the self is really incredible

BellaVita
12-09-13, 08:10 AM
Something was revealed to me in one of my dreams the other night:

"You need to be praised." [not religiously, like, after I do x y z, I need praise sometimes. I don't receive this[IRL] hardly if at all in current environment, ....it didn't dawn on me that lack of praise in real life could be an issue...[i mostly get....yelled at and belittled and demolished)

It was a self-realization.

It's an embarrassing realization, but perhaps self-awareness practice(?) would help me understand myself more, cuz it looks like I need to

Daydreamin22
12-09-13, 08:29 AM
one other way is possible, im beginning to find

or i may be manic

with a like minded individual, very likeminded, they can sometimes see the things for you

projective identification in a way

sometimes we can learn about ourselves more from others, than from ourselves

I hadnt thought ab that, but especially when people are in love.

Daydreamin22
12-09-13, 08:32 AM
Bella, it makes sense that you realized that and honestly from what I've read you amaze me. So awesome that you know that! Aww:)

daveddd
12-09-13, 08:43 AM
We often don't like things we see in others, that we don't like in ourselves
.

jung right?

its used as a chapter header in this book on self awareness (great book)
http://books.google.com/books?id=7aI8YrWwxV4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=self+awareness+handbook&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jLqlUtnfHKXu2QWhkoH4Bg&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=self%20awareness%20handbook&f=false

BellaVita
12-09-13, 08:55 AM
jung right?

its used as a chapter header in this book on self awareness (great book)
http://books.google.com/books?id=7aI8YrWwxV4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=self+awareness+handbook&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jLqlUtnfHKXu2QWhkoH4Bg&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=self%20awareness%20handbook&f=false

Lol, you are probably right

I've just always read that and idk exactly the source :scratch:

Wow wonderful book!!

BellaVita
12-09-13, 09:22 AM
Love thyself....is important in self-awareness

daveddd
12-10-13, 07:15 AM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23864438


more research of adhd being problems with introspection/introception

janiew
12-15-13, 01:44 AM
Sounds familiar!

WheresMyMind
12-15-13, 02:23 AM
so it seems a lot of people here are understanding the importance of gaining self awareness, and its importance to adhd

so question, how do you think we were able to hide so much from ourselves, without our 'self' knowing or being aware of it

I don't think I ever intentionally hid anything from myself, ever.

I simply wasn't aware that it was possible to BE self-aware, or what it meant.

I still don't think I know myself as well as I'd like to.

Oh, well....

daveddd
12-15-13, 07:51 AM
I don't think I ever intentionally hid anything from myself, ever.

I simply wasn't aware that it was possible to BE self-aware, or what it meant.

I still don't think I know myself as well as I'd like to.

Oh, well....

This is the grey area

I think think the unconscious knows what's it's doing from the get go

MX2012
12-15-13, 06:58 PM
This is the grey area

I think think the unconscious knows what's it's doing from the get go

Daveddd-

While I agree the unconscious is "aware" of what is going on, I do not think it is always logic or rational in the sense of "knowing" how to make sense of the input. Over time, I think the unconscious does sort out some of the input into a rational logic manner but not all of it.

Hard to give an example. Sometimes our minds are such a mix of partial memories, dreams, thoughts and input from the unconscious that what we eventually learn to "know" may be based on our survival needs at the moment. It is a luxury for the unconscious to sort out in a finer detail what is best for us.

That said, if we are introspective and focus on what our unconscious may be trying to communicate, we can take that input and formulate a more rational, logic response.

Did I just restate what everyone has been saying all along?

anonymouslyadd
12-15-13, 08:01 PM
so it seems a lot of people here are understanding the importance of gaining self awareness, and its importance to adhd

so question, how do you think we were able to hide so much from ourselves, without our 'self' knowing or being aware of it
I'm not sure that I was hiding it. I think I was used to living a certain way, which happened to be the the life of an ADDer. It took a separation for me to want to figure out what was going on with me.

Daydreamin22
12-15-13, 11:02 PM
How the brain deals with past memories and the effect it has on behavior.
Disorganized attachment- abused mindset/fear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zovtRq4e2E8 (upper brain and lower brain. Unresolved traumatic memories resurfacing, triggering feelings, priming brain for readiness to act.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGDqJYEi_Ks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQtPsuhLzc

Daydreamin22
12-15-13, 11:22 PM
Taking the low road, rather than the high road in a situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkEcpBU3TpE
Making sense of who you are
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0sAROt7gSU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD-lfP1FBFk

OK, I'm done!

daveddd
12-17-13, 09:26 AM
daydreamin , ill watch those today



i don't think anyone purposely hides anything from themselves

the ego will sort out material in everybody to protect itself

another "spectrum", and if adhd is what recent research is saying, we will be at the far end of it

i view things a bit differently, which is why i feel this way

a lot of people see a long list of clear cut, completely seperate mental disorders

i see a spectrum of abnormal psycological functioning

WheresMyMind
01-02-14, 03:29 AM
This is the grey area

I think think the unconscious knows what's it's doing from the get go

Actually, Hallowell and Ratey disagree. They say that even the subconscious (not unconscious) can only rate things based on a known scale. Since most ADDers are relatively disconnected from knowing what normal is, the sub-conscious has no clue where the individual sits on that scale.

I can't tell you the number of times that I've felt like a total screw-up because of mouthing off to someone at work. Only to get a bonus (thousands of dollars) from a boss telling me "someone had to have the guts to say it". But my dreams continued to show me getting murdered by the guy I said it about. So much for the subconscious knowing.

And the opposite has happened. I've done the right thing, in my mind, been reprimanded or even fired...and my subconscious, as revealed through dreams, has replayed the whole episode demonstrating me as the person who did the right thing for the customer/company.

The subconscious has to have a yardstick. That yardstick comes from the conscious. If the conscious has attentional deficits that distort the information coming in from others, then the yardstick will be distorted.

At least, that's the opinion I've concluded, based on my psych education and evaluation of life, both of which were filtered by my very imperfect ADDled conscious.

WMM

daveddd
01-02-14, 09:52 PM
Actually, Hallowell and Ratey disagree. They say that even the subconscious (not unconscious) can only rate things based on a known scale. Since most ADDers are relatively disconnected from knowing what normal is, the sub-conscious has no clue where the individual sits on that scale.

I can't tell you the number of times that I've felt like a total screw-up because of mouthing off to someone at work. Only to get a bonus (thousands of dollars) from a boss telling me "someone had to have the guts to say it". But my dreams continued to show me getting murdered by the guy I said it about. So much for the subconscious knowing.

And the opposite has happened. I've done the right thing, in my mind, been reprimanded or even fired...and my subconscious, as revealed through dreams, has replayed the whole episode demonstrating me as the person who did the right thing for the customer/company.

The subconscious has to have a yardstick. That yardstick comes from the conscious. If the conscious has attentional deficits that distort the information coming in from others, then the yardstick will be distorted.

At least, that's the opinion I've concluded, based on my psych education and evaluation of life, both of which were filtered by my very imperfect ADDled conscious.

WMM

interesting take

i view what your saying as a "schema" developed by conscious to guide the ego through life based on sensitivities and predispositions

i view the "true self" as something different, something that needs to break free from the schema

janiew
01-02-14, 10:28 PM
Daydreaming -

Good videos. Therapy can help in reframing how the brain reacts and processes. I think ADHDers who are diagnosed early might benefit in interaction with their parents and socially. Meaning beyond medication. Developing understanding and skills.

However, I think if we buy the theory that ADHD involves neurological differences - this paradigm will only help so much.

For me, therapy has been instrumental in breaking it down to an understandable level. Now, it's all practical applications with meds.

I'm glad to have this place to break it down and bounce ideas / experience.

daveddd
01-02-14, 10:35 PM
Daydreaming -

Good videos. Therapy can help in reframing how the brain reacts and processes. I think ADHDers who are diagnosed early might benefit in interaction with their parents and socially. Meaning beyond medication. Developing understanding and skills.

However, I think if we buy the theory that ADHD involves neurological differences - this paradigm will only help so much.

For me, therapy has been instrumental in breaking it down to an understandable level. Now, it's all practical applications with meds.

I'm glad to have this place to break it down and bounce ideas / experience.

what type of therapy did you do for adhd?

daveddd
01-02-14, 10:43 PM
daydreamin , ill watch those today



i don't think anyone purposely hides anything from themselves

the ego will sort out material in everybody to protect itself

another "spectrum", and if adhd is what recent research is saying, we will be at the far end of it

i view things a bit differently, which is why i feel this way

a lot of people see a long list of clear cut, completely seperate mental disorders

i see a spectrum of abnormal psycological functioning

the myth of psychiatric disease
http://books.google.com/books?id=5_xAm0VF4X8C&pg=PA7&dq=acceptance+and+commitment+therapy+the+myth+of+p sychiatric+disease&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ySPGUrGuDaOa2AXbu4CgBw&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=acceptance%20and%20commitment%20therapy%20the%20 myth%20of%20psychiatric%20disease&f=false

Daydreamin22
01-02-14, 11:00 PM
Daydreaming -

Good videos. Therapy can help in reframing how the brain reacts and processes. I think ADHDers who are diagnosed early might benefit in interaction with their parents and socially. Meaning beyond medication. Developing understanding and skills.

However, I think if we buy the theory that ADHD involves neurological differences - this paradigm will only help so much.

For me, therapy has been instrumental in breaking it down to an understandable level. Now, it's all practical applications with meds.

I'm glad to have this place to break it down and bounce ideas / experience.

I'm glad you like them. I agree with all you said. I know that researchers do more studies on early childhood than any other age category.(just a personal observation). No matter what your genes say... the cutting edge research has taken that al into account, I'm sure, and they tell you beaviors to look out for and how to shape those behaviors in the best way, while there are those windows of opportunity throughout all stages of early childhood.

The core is also shaped from birth-6, which is why preschool and kindergarten are all crucial. Luckily, most quality preschools (majority of preschools) are certified by national association for the education of young children naeyc (nasey).

These certified preschools are up to par by naeyc that keeps up with what educators need. Our president has stressed early childhood as a priority field because of it's importance. Like he did with mental health. Not getting into politics, but just looking at the decision for what it is... I think that hits the route of societies biggest problems. So.. how did I get into such a profound concept? sorry.

Back to wiring... babies learn to think and attach amoung other things in that window. this is getting into a different topic but I actually just read in an an article about attachment from nimh that babies should not be away from their mom for more than 2 hours.. maybe 1.. they are only capable of knowing their mom is still bonded with them by her actually physically being there.

A phone call or picture/video doesn't do it. It was past 1 yr.. I forget how long. I thought that was really surprising. It's said that a familiar caregivers make up or compensate in some way. But that's what's needed for a secure attachment to form.

janiew
01-02-14, 11:20 PM
I have not had therapy for ADHD, specifically. Turns out there aren't too many in my neck of the woods who understand adult ADHD or other neurological differences.

I have been in full-fledged psychotherapy since October 2012, at my own insistence, which is what led to my ADHD/OCD diagnosis in May 2013 by a pdoc, who I see monthly to this day. My therapy included psychoanalysis with a phd and psychodynamic therapy with a licensed counselor. I saw both at the same time for over a YEAR - yes, my husband's employer had GREAT insurance.

Since then, I learned a lot about myself, my family of origin, and where I am now. And different ways to look at it.

My licensed counselor thought I might have aspergers too. My phd thinks ADHD and aspergers are overdiagnosed and that I'm just smart and have a chronic disease - rheumatoid arthritis - that makes me more rigid in my thinking and pragmatic with communication - which are buzzwords in the high functioning autism world. My opinion is mixed, but I am pretty sure that ADHD might be on the autism spectrum. And that's okay.

My pdoc thinks I have adhd, ocd, and tics and has not commented on aspergers. He knows I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis in September and has full records of my labs, as well as the labs he ran. He has commented on my achievements and totally understood where I was coming from. He then asked if I have a company/corporation - which I do - in addition to being self-employed. And he got it.

My therapists have cut me loose - not because I am a hopeless cause. But we think I can benefit most now by coaching / mentoring at this point rather than psychotherapy, per se.

I am good with it. Both therapists told me to call them or text them if issues come up and gave me referrals, but adult ADHD / aspergers / neurological differences are not a major area of emphasis in Flyover Country.

Best wishes! Psychoanalysis and psychotherapy are worth the effort.

Jane

daveddd
01-02-14, 11:25 PM
I have not had therapy for ADHD, specifically. Turns out there aren't too many in my neck of the woods who understand adult ADHD or other neurological differences.

I have been in full-fledged psychotherapy since October 2012, at my own insistence, which is what led to my ADHD/OCD diagnosis in May 2013 by a pdoc, who I see monthly to this day. My therapy included psychoanalysis with a phd and psychodynamic therapy with a licensed counselor. I saw both at the same time for over a YEAR - yes, my husband's employer had GREAT insurance.

Since then, I learned a lot about myself, my family of origin, and where I am now. And different ways to look at it.

My licensed counselor thought I might have aspergers too. My phd thinks ADHD and aspergers are overdiagnosed and that I'm just smart and have a chronic disease - rheumatoid arthritis - that makes me more rigid in my thinking and pragmatic with communication - which are buzzwords in the high functioning autism world. My opinion is mixed, but I am pretty sure that ADHD might be on the autism spectrum. And that's okay.

My pdoc thinks I have adhd, ocd, and tics and has not commented on aspergers. He knows I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis in September and has full records of my labs, as well as the labs he ran. He has commented on my achievements and totally understood where I was coming from. He then asked if I have a company/corporation - which I do - in addition to being self-employed. And he got it.

My therapists have cut me loose - not because I am a hopeless cause. But we think I can benefit most now by coaching / mentoring at this point rather than psychotherapy, per se.

I am good with it. Both therapists told me to call them or text them if issues come up and gave me referrals, but adult ADHD / aspergers / neurological differences are not a major area of emphasis in Flyover Country.

Best wishes! Psychoanalysis and psychotherapy are worth the effort.

Jane


would it be pain avoidance in the arthritis that he thinks causes those symptoms?

janiew
01-02-14, 11:46 PM
would it be pain avoidance in the arthritis that he thinks causes those symptoms?

No, don't think so. My ADHD / whatever symptoms have been there my whole life.

- Precocious baby - read by age 4, swam early, happy and busy little chick
- Wet the bed sporadically through age 8.
- Impulsive / clumsy - had emergency room stitches four times, arm fractures four times, two fractures in vertebrae at different times, jumped off roofs, played chicken on bicycles, was very busy.
- Straight A student in the 97-99 percentile through elementary school - gifted and talented
- Social anxiety - always.
- Played viola in orchestra 6-12, ignored university scholarship
- Drop in grades and achievement tests from middle school on with some oppositional defiance issues - never arrested but could have been
- ACT = 28 during junior year with hangover after being up until 3 am - felt it was good enough and didn't want to mess with it again

That's my childhood story ---

Anyone else want to share?

daveddd
01-03-14, 12:02 AM
No, don't think so. My ADHD / whatever symptoms have been there my whole life.

- Precocious baby - read by age 4, swam early, happy and busy little chick
- Wet the bed sporadically through age 8.
- Impulsive / clumsy - had emergency room stitches four times, arm fractures four times, two fractures in vertebrae at different times, jumped off roofs, played chicken on bicycles, was very busy.
- Straight A student in the 97-99 percentile through elementary school - gifted and talented
- Social anxiety - always.
- Played viola in orchestra 6-12, ignored university scholarship
- Drop in grades and achievement tests from middle school on with some oppositional defiance issues - never arrested but could have been
- ACT = 28 during junior year with hangover after being up until 3 am - felt it was good enough and didn't want to mess with it again

That's my childhood story ---

Anyone else want to share?

i meant because you said he thinks the arthritis makes you rigid and pragmatic

janiew
01-03-14, 12:22 AM
i meant because you said he thinks the arthritis makes you rigid and pragmatic

Well, maybe on some level. But I think my RA showed up when I was 31 - early in my career - which was well after my childhood and adolescent experiences.

At that time, I already knew where I might be professionally successful and how it might pay off eventually. I had a degree, professional experience, and was OCD in my field.

I am a business person who works in a field that is heavily regulated - involves black and white thinking with some creativity in gray - and I have for 25 years in it. I don't like to waste time if I'm not being paid - since it's my livelihood...

We are talking about three professionals here, each with their own slant.

I think it's hard to differentiate the factors and that all we can say is that this is my experience.

For an ADHD person who has been "shrunk", it's not the end of the world while at the same time it's not perfect.

janiew
01-03-14, 12:24 AM
Lol, I'm pretty sure the ADHD, OCD, tics, etc. fit the story of my life.

Maybe the better question is whether untreated blah-blah-blah can result in auto immune disorders.

Been wondering... And researching on Google Scholar.

daveddd
01-03-14, 12:26 AM
Well, maybe on some level. But I think my RA showed up when I was 31 - early in my career - which was well after my childhood and adolescent experiences.

At that time, I already knew where I might be professionally successful and how it might pay off eventually. I had a degree, professional experience, and was OCD in my field.

I am a business person who works in a field that is heavily regulated - involves black and white thinking with some creativity in gray - and I have for 25 years in it. I don't like to waste time if I'm not being paid - since it's my livelihood...

We are talking about three professionals here, each with their own slant.

I think it's hard to differentiate the factors and that all we can say is that this is my experience.

For an ADHD person who has been "shrunk", it's not the end of the world while at the same time it's not perfect.

ok, i just saw you said your doctor told you he thought arthritis caused your rigid thinking and pragmatic

i just was curious what that meant

KD had mentioned inflammation and mental processes

daveddd
01-03-14, 12:30 AM
Lol, I'm pretty sure the ADHD, OCD, tics, etc. fit the story of my life.

Maybe the better question is whether untreated blah-blah-blah can result in auto immune disorders.

Been wondering... And researching on Google Scholar.

difficulty in identifying and expressing and regulating emotion (alexthymia/emotional intelligence/adhd) has been linked to auto immune disorders

Anastasia
01-03-14, 01:13 AM
I'm not 100% sure I get the question.

How are we able to hide so much of ourselves from ourselves since be diagnosed, or since a.d.d is associated with self-awareness, how come we were able to do so in spite of, before diagnosis?

janiew
01-03-14, 01:19 AM
difficulty in identifying and expressing and regulating emotion (alexthymia/emotional intelligence/adhd) has been linked to auto immune disorders

I am positive if one has pain and fatigue that it will affect many areas of life. However, there can be different causes.

Not everyone has an autoimmune disorder that is quantifiable. Like with RF, ANA, CRP, and other positive lab results - along with visible physical manifestation - i.e. xray, MRI, and ultrasound. It can be measurable and that's how it's treated. Usually, it is not treated unless it can be measured.

Further some have symptoms before labs show results. Some never have lab results that show... I have blood labs, xrays, and MRIs that show it. Which is why I am treated for it.

Cause and effect? Well ---

I take methotrexate, which is low dose chemotherapy, one time per week - plaquenil, which is an anti-malarial daily, along with my ADHD meds.

My RA/AI is definitely more measureable than my ADHD. But my ADHD manifested a lot earlier.