View Full Version : Female Specific Traits / Manifestations


someothertime
11-28-13, 09:24 AM
Hello Ladies :)

Please excuse my foray into this leaf of the forums :)... I try stay out of stuff that is not intended for me.... but i've got a question for you!

What things have you noticed are common behaviours / habits / differences for females with AD(H)D?

If you have any good research/other forum posts - post a link
Self revelations at any age...
Observations of other women and what they share that perhaps you don't see in males or is less prominent....
Maturation differences ( go easy ;) ) nb:... more thinking at what age such and such trait grew or reduced or arose...etc.



The thing is.... cause this whole thing is fairly new to me..... after meeting a few "sisters'....... I'm picking up that women ( generally, not all ) seem to have a much more practical / "do" based approach... So they aren't as susceptible to the kind of stagnation ( lifestyle wise ) a lot of men are.... Who knows, quite possibly it's not an ADD trait but a feminine one in general, bit of self reliance from growing up and having to self promote / manage / satisfy etc. In that case.... How has it effected you traits?

In particular the 20's seem to be a very polar thing for guys.... All out or all in or a transition between the two..... yet I'm kind of getting the vibe ( could be wrong )..... That in spite of the barriers..... alot of women still progress quite well..... if not flourish in the mid twenties to say 30 - 35....

More self reliance maybe? Can't exactly explain it but yeah.... Interested in any ideas, experiences, thoughts......

GO!

BellaVita
11-28-13, 10:03 AM
Hmmm. What was the question again? :o :scratch:


Like, the main question(s)?

Corina86
11-28-13, 10:26 AM
Specific traits for women with ADHD compared with men with ADHD or with NT women?

Compared to men with ADHD: I have female genitalia, smaller frame, less body hair and higher-pitched voice.

Compared to NT women: I always forget to shave during winter and I hardly wear any make-up.

Does this satisfy you?

someothertime
11-28-13, 10:30 AM
Oh dear :o... maybe I should have put this in open science....

The question is;

What have you noticed in your "skills" or behaviors that women with ADHD commonly share.

Yes, perhaps the (adhd) guys do not have it or they have it but it's not as pronounced. Don't care whether the NT's have it or not.... But it may be a non-adhd trait that flows over into how you behave.... clear?

Tulip7171
11-28-13, 11:07 AM
Compared to NT women: I always forget to shave during winter and I hardly wear any make-up.

Does this satisfy you?

Ha! I always forget to shave my legs! I wear a lot of tights or leggings under skirts & sometimes have to wear jeans in 100F!

Tulip7171
11-28-13, 11:19 AM
I only really know 2 guys with ADHD; my dad & one of my girlfriends' husband. And now that a I think about it, I don't really hang out with that many guys.

I think I'm less impulsive in my spending than my dad. At least I spend less, but that could be due to having less to spend.

My dad gets angry & explosive when feeling insecure & I tend to get stabby & depressed.

I'm more logical & thoughtful with decisions & dad is more emotional & impulsive. (when we actually make a decision)

Dad freaks out in emergency situations & I 'take charge' until the emergency is done, then I freak.

Hope this is what you're looking for.

BellaVita
11-28-13, 11:21 AM
What have you noticed in your "skills" or behaviors that women with ADHD commonly share.

We often talk a whole lot, I don't necessarily see this as a skill although I guess in some situations it can be seen as useful.

I found the below article interesting:
ADHD in girls and boys -- gender differences in co-existing symptoms and executive function measures.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24206839/?i=10&from=gender%20adhd

BellaVita
11-28-13, 11:26 AM
I'm more logical & thoughtful with decisions & dad is more emotional & impulsive. (when we actually make a decision)

Dad freaks out in emergency situations & I 'take charge' until the emergency is done, then I freak.

Yes, I can very much relate to this. Especially the "taking charge" bit and freaking out after. It's like, I *know* I have to be calm(something "kicks in" idk what?) or else what needs to be done to "save" the situation won't get done.

But, this is like only for extreme situations.

I tend to freak over tiny, insignificant situations. :o I think this is common for many ADHD'ers, from what I've read on the forums. Many are highly stressed by (what others see as) insignificant situations, but when it comes to the important situations, they tend to be under stressed.

Corina86
11-28-13, 12:16 PM
I think I handle social situations better than most guys around here and this helps me make up for other flaws, like forgetting my friends' birthdays or not respecting deadlines at work. I haven't met any (diagnosed) ADHD-ers, though.

Daydreamin22
11-28-13, 12:18 PM
We talk, talk, talk.

We want you to listen, and sometimes we talk to understant how what we think about a situation.

A guy goes from A to B to C

It confuses him when a woman starts in the middle of a situation, adds what she thoought at the end, what her friend thought, and that she randomly thought about her childhood and why.

Hope it makes sense.

someothertime
11-28-13, 12:31 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24206839/?i=10&from=gender%20adhd

Nice link Bella :D Definitely points out the differences children...
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/figures/1471-244X-13-298-3.jpg

sOmE wonders how these impact on maturation and life skills. The thing I was talking about in my OP that I picked up was PLANNING... i've noticed females have some sort of "drive" to keep occupied/"line-up" and sequence events. In the crossover with maleAdders... It seems we are more of a one trick pony ( tendancy to "group plan" or just get stuck in one circle ( variance )... Less comms based...

Anyways... I told myself i'd shut up! Soz.

Corina86
11-28-13, 12:33 PM
I think some of our ADHD traits are considered more acceptable because we are female: being more emotionally sensitive, having a lot of social anxiety (shy girls are considered cute by some), being clumsy, forgetful, always late, living with mom and dad, being a lousy driver, not reading a map well, acting like a kid and enjoy girlie stuff- it somehow seems to fit with my appearance very well (I look like a shy and silly little girl and act like one), so I get away with it more.

sarahsweets
11-28-13, 03:05 PM
we all have menstruated.

someothertime
11-29-13, 12:19 PM
I think I just see women as more resilient. Able to take things in their stride and accept them as opposed to men. This and the planning and the stuff Corina discussed above...

That kind of makes things alot more clearer to me know... Thankyou!

BellaVita
11-29-13, 12:25 PM
I think I just see women as more resilient. Able to take things in their stride and accept them as opposed to men. This and the planning and the stuff Corina discussed above...

That kind of makes things alot more clearer to me know... Thankyou!

I am the worst planner I know.

someothertime
11-29-13, 12:31 PM
Yeah... Kind of "activity driven" is maybe a better description of what I was thinking... and it's just a general comparison to AD(H)D males... So not really like "in real life every female has xyz"...

So... For instance Bella... You being here and the mode which your here is an example...
Your bright... interactive... you keeping yourself rolling...

ginniebean
11-29-13, 12:40 PM
From what I understand and I do not have the research handy there are no trait differences between males and females with adhd.

There are different manifestations based on gender expectations. Women don't expect "the wife will do it" or "the husband will do it". Men across the board tend to do less of the unpaid work but women will suffer extreme judgement when they can't keep up.

Men with adhd are told to find an NT partner to balance out their weakness in ADHD. Many NT wives try to do it all because the social pressure on women to keep house, to manage children is extreme. This in many ways works for men with adhd at least as far as compensation goes. However, it can open them up to emotional abuse as the coping mechanisms of the wives breaks down.

Women with adhd are more prone to experiencing spousal abuse, breakdown of marriage because NT men have the same societal expectations as everyone else. Men are more likely to end the relationship rather than stay and ***** about it. Not before they've done a ton of damage tho.

As a woman with adhd I often read the lives of the NT women expressed in the NT section and marvel at how little some men do. I have been a single parent so lines like, "I feel like a single parent" tend to not impress me as just so horrible. I often think that women with adhd get more done because there is no societal out for not doing stuff. I've also noticed when a woman with adhd complains of being overwhelmed when she's doing 20-30x as much as the adhd guys, the NT wives giving advice will berate her for not doing enough and insist that she is being uncompassionate of her husband. Even complaints of abuse, physical, mental and emotional get dismissed on the grounds that ADHD causes NT's great aggravation.

That's my experience.

someothertime
11-29-13, 12:58 PM
Sincere thanks Ginnie.

This was confronting for me to read. I mean, know... but it didn't click until I read your post.
Many NT wives try to do it all because the social pressure on women to keep house, to manage children is extreme.

someothertime
11-29-13, 01:08 PM
Please understand that me raising the next point is in no way any comparison or reasoning against what ginnie said above....

Men it seems face an alternate pressure system outside the home... maybe this is where what Corina said and what you say Ginnie about "social pressure" bring forces onto mens psyche. Men are expected to be "doers", "certain"... Like Corina says, if a male is always late... emotionally sensitive, acts like a kid... depending on the circle... we can't just "get away" with that... No idea though on how this interacts disorder wise if at all...

I think some of our ADHD traits are considered more acceptable because we are female: being more emotionally sensitive, having a lot of social anxiety (shy girls are considered cute by some), being clumsy, forgetful, always late, living with mom and dad, being a lousy driver, not reading a map well, acting like a kid and enjoy girlie stuff- it somehow seems to fit with my appearance very well (I look like a shy and silly little girl and act like one), so I get away with it more.


Any thoughts on demand management / ability... what qualities do women in general draw on when given these huge demands? Is it that factor alone... the "more strictly set roles" and "crisis managament" type expectations that give some sort of resilience/taskskills?

Alot has been said in this country and others i'm sure about males internalising... Womens better ability to verbalise frustrations... Does this have an impact on not stagnating in a personal development sense?


And yes... I'm trying to understand ADHDwomen better... Ignore the male references if you feel i'm trying to compare.


Is to that you have to generate your own self belief/value earlier? A male is always thinking he is expected to "succeed" ( traditionally )... Where as females might more often than not come from a polar expectation and through talk and experience they foster self resilience / determination?

So I guess... Women face more real demands where males face more "virtual" demands... again this is not a truth... I'm only interested in finding out what it is about ADHDwomen in general that sets them apart from ADHDmales...

psychokitty
11-29-13, 02:40 PM
As a woman with adhd I often read the lives of the NT women expressed in the NT section and marvel at how little some men do. I have been a single parent so lines like, "I feel like a single parent" tend to not impress me as just so horrible. I often think that women with adhd get more done because there is no societal out for not doing stuff. I've also noticed when a woman with adhd complains of being overwhelmed when she's doing 20-30x as much as the adhd guys, the NT wives giving advice will berate her for not doing enough and insist that she is being uncompassionate of her husband. Even complaints of abuse, physical, mental and emotional get dismissed on the grounds that ADHD causes NT's great aggravation.

That's my experience.

Umm yes.

I think that's me you are talking about:p
That was my experience, and just recently.

Though I imagine it's not a one off incident.

I can understand that they are stressed, but Jesus! I was just flabbergasted at the aggression and condescension directed at me. It felt like a slap in the face.
I get enough pressure from society and the NT women out there, I don't need any more from people who I would be hoping are trying to understand and come to terms with ADHD.
I'm trying to be a good mother (to a child with ADHD) and wife while keeping myself happy and sane, and if the way I can do that best is not to sweat the small stuff and find work arounds then so be it.

BellaVita
11-29-13, 02:47 PM
Umm yes.

I think that's me you are talking about:p
That was my experience, and just recently.

Though I imagine it's not a one off incident.

I can understand that they are stressed, but Jesus! I was just flabbergasted at the aggression and condescension directed at me. It felt like a slap in the face.
I get enough pressure from society and the NT women out there, I don't need any more from people who I would be hoping are trying to understand and come to terms with ADHD.
I'm trying to be a good mother (to a child with ADHD) and wife while keeping myself happy and sane, and if the way I can do that best is not to sweat the small stuff and find work arounds then so be it.

Yes;

Many NTs are not accepting of our improvisations

And often will not allow for accommodations

Often due to moral reasoning

Because that's all they can offer.

ginniebean
11-29-13, 03:31 PM
Yes, for adhd men like the pressure upon all men is to produce as the primary breadwinner. To be strong and friendship disciplinarian with the children, to be strong and show no emotions etc. Men with no disability find this a terrible burden and there is reams of shame associated with this.

Add in the growing expectations of shared unpaid work the adhd males experience humiliating defeat.

One thing I have noticed is that the adhd man will not questions old cultural beliefs and will attract women who's fondest wish is to stay home and raise children. Men without adhd will not find this acceptable, they refuse this burden and yet I've often seen spouses come and complain because they adhd man is not keeping his word, he gave it before kids and I'm holding him to it. There is no reassessment allowed and so blame and shame gets heaped.

If I had one advice for males with adhd, Never agree to be the single breadwinner and know that re-negotiations may not be liked bit ALL responsible adults have to adjust whenthings no longer work. The keeping you to words said in ignorance and changing circumstances is unacceptable, using shame to avoid the new reality is uncool and not ok.

someothertime
11-29-13, 05:29 PM
There is no reassessment allowed and so blame and shame gets heaped.

On both sides... but you make wise observation about a males "stubbornness" to yeild.. and tho' adhd definately places obstaces in the path of this reassessment ( not an excuse just a factor )... this is definitely a stifling and oppressive behavior.... no matter which way you look at it..... male or female.... adhd or no adhd...

humiliating defeat Perhaps confusion rather plays a bigger role ( no "set rule" ) and a lack of yeilding skills. Which as you say manifests in humiliating defeat. Not a disagreement or an excuse... Just feel that causation is moreso from "false ideals" and "favour of structure / clear rules" vs negotiation and compromise.... as a male function moreso as a choice.... ( again "stubborness" - innate )?

Do women adapt better... is adaption a more valued/useful/fostered trait? Fashion requires continual adaption, social interaction requires more adaption... Is it this that gives you the presence to yeild and be more flexible.... as opposed to stubbornness and "certainty" in a living/lifestyle context?

stef
11-29-13, 06:37 PM
i wonder if it was harder for my dad to be the sole breadwinner or for me to try and be a french NT mom...
we have practically the same personality and symptoms
i think there are just too many individual factors to make a general comparison between men and women.

ginniebean
11-29-13, 07:18 PM
On both sides... but you make wise observation about a males "stubbornness" to yeild.. and tho' adhd definately places obstaces in the path of this reassessment ( not an excuse just a factor )... this is definitely a stifling and oppressive behavior.... no matter which way you look at it..... male or female.... adhd or no adhd...

Perhaps confusion rather plays a bigger role ( no "set rule" ) and a lack of yeilding skills. Which as you say manifests in humiliating defeat. Not a disagreement or an excuse... Just feel that causation is moreso from "false ideals" and "favour of structure / clear rules" vs negotiation and compromise.... as a male function moreso as a choice.... ( again "stubborness" - innate )?

Do women adapt better... is adaption a more valued/useful/fostered trait? Fashion requires continual adaption, social interaction requires more adaption... Is it this that gives you the presence to yeild and be more flexible.... as opposed to stubbornness and "certainty" in a living/lifestyle context?

Actually many of the men would find it a relief if the wife would go back to work,it's not the men,in my experience,who are being inflexible.

ginniebean
11-29-13, 07:19 PM
i wonder if it was harder for my dad to be the sole breadwinner or for me to try and be a french NT mom...
we have practically the same personality and symptoms
i think there are just too many individual factors to make a general comparison between men and women.

Yeah, I sure don't want to compare who has it harder, just shared some observations.

stef
11-29-13, 07:22 PM
Yeah, I sure don't want to compare who has it harder, just shared some observations.

oh that's not what meant, at all!

ginniebean
11-29-13, 07:24 PM
Umm yes.

I think that's me you are talking about:p
That was my experience, and just recently.

Though I imagine it's not a one off incident.

I can understand that they are stressed, but Jesus! I was just flabbergasted at the aggression and condescension directed at me. It felt like a slap in the face.
I get enough pressure from society and the NT women out there, I don't need any more from people who I would be hoping are trying to understand and come to terms with ADHD.
I'm trying to be a good mother (to a child with ADHD) and wife while keeping myself happy and sane, and if the way I can do that best is not to sweat the small stuff and find work arounds then so be it.

I'm sorry you had to go thru this Unfortunately some places that bill themselves as supportive are running demonstrations of ablism. The self righteousness so thick only the wise words of Sarah Sweets are appropriate.

Nothing like kicking a person when they are down.

silivrentoliel
11-29-13, 08:56 PM
I'm a lot more hyper and childish in some of the things I say/do than my NT friend... I don't know (in person) any other ADHD women. I also have a tendency to interrupt- a lot, as well as interject something at inappropriate times... but somehow, after almost a decade of being friends, she still really doesn't seem to care, thankfully.

Corina86
11-30-13, 06:51 AM
It depends a lot on age. I'm not a wife or a mother and, frankly, I don't think I ever want to be one, because I could never live up to the expectations (of the husband, I wouldn't care about society). I don't even really have a choice anyway, since nobody wants me as a girlfriend, not to mention as a wife. Guys sense my uselessness and it drives them away.

Thus being said, any advantage I might have is outside the home and only while I'm being young. Being a 40y old clumsy forgetful woman who can't drive and has no family will probably be regarded as pathetic.

But, I do have good communication skills, I am docile (I have no issues with authority whatsoever) and I can afford to stay overtime to make up for procrastinating at work (which I wouldn't be able to do if I had to go home to the kids), so, at least, I'm able to have a job and support myself. Men with ADHD are, in my opinion, were prone to being unemployed or being unappreciated at work. That and the fact that society expects them to be breadwinners (if they ever find a wife willing to "take care" of them), I'm sure leads to a tremendous amount of stress.

someothertime
11-30-13, 07:44 AM
Just throwing an "I observe perhaps what appears to be a majority" in front of every claim in this thread!

Such an ODD thing... It seems that being of opposing genders is like barricking for different football teams :giggle:

Seriously though... Just wanted to praise you gals who have contributed ( or read it with an objective mind :D ). I'm not even gonna bother to talk about how the thread steered towards pair bonds :eyebrow:

And honestly so long as this stuff is just general observations of patterns and common traits of ADHD women... ( with comparisons to males traits and development )... I don't care... It's nice too see that despite such a "triggering topic"... things stayed above the belt ( well mostly :lol: )


So far these "general" points have been made ...

References to Non-ADHD behaviors ( ones that can be seen in general society - Mostly culture independant )
Women are more expected of... implied capability i.e. you can do( resilience?/pressure )
Males may "expect" more implied ultimate control/decision maker ( responsibility(perceived)/emotional stagnation)

Cultural Expectations / Roles ( Non ADHD )

Females may be more more "spontaneous" in general and more expressive in terms of emotions... ( perhaps not in more reserved cultures* )

Presentation ( Greater emphasis / demand for women to "present well" ) and judgement if they do not.
Does this "individualism" or emotional/creative expression favour an ADHDers emotional/creative strengths
Interaction based expression vs "doing" or more intellectual expression.... ( highly variable though some minor differences "on average"... )


That's heaps to ponder... ( I know there was more said but pooped! ) and thanks once again for being so open and objective.

I plan to dig around at some stage or if I make any connections I'll make a new thread in scientific... I'm gonna unsubscribe leave this to you guys ( no more interference )... So if you feel like letting it drift into the triggerless depths of page 2-3-4-5 ;)

Or wanna take it in your own direction it's all yours ;)

Corina86
12-01-13, 03:27 PM
@someothertime

I think that if you want scientific arguments, you're asking in the wrong place: as long as no studies have been made and most of us know other ADHD-ers mostly from this forum, it's pretty hard to make an accurate assumption about the difference in the genders. Even regarding the males that I suspect that they have ADHD, I can't really tell what traits/skills they have extra/minus compared to me, because I'm only looking at the surface and there's no way for me to know what goes on in their heads: how hard they struggle, what areas to they struggle most, in what areas do they feel they are more prone to failures etc.

I would love to know the answer to what you asking, but it seems to raise issues even in the scientific community, who now recognizes that ADHD manifests differently in both genders. Understanding the differences would bring a more accurate diagnosis and better therapy/treatment, so there's lots of motivation to study this. It just isn't that easy.

someothertime
12-01-13, 03:46 PM
@Corina86 ;) ( pokes head into thread cause invited directly from a gal who's dominating the men's section as paypack :giggle: )

Well said. It seems based on what's been clarified here that we ( or future researchers ) won't find much targeting ADHD traits.

It seems that what I was "sensing" has more to do with societal norms > raw gender differences > unifiedAD(H)Dtraits ( non-sexbased ).

There is definitely something remarkable about the female mind / resilience / strength that is maintained ( if not enhanced ) in the AD(H)Der... As you say... it's gonna be very difficult to truly prove until scientists gain a clearer understanding of adaption and the environments role on our function.

Now go spam some of my threads cause I don't believe you've quite achieved payback post parity :giggle:

ana futura
12-01-13, 03:49 PM
Aside from the impact of hormonal fluctuations, it appears to me that the majority of perceived differences are merely reflective of the different cultural expectations placed on men and women.

Women (ADHD or no) are taught to direct feelings of frustration inwards- so ADHD related ODD behaviors might manifest as self injury in women.

I have noticed here that my anger issues seem more "male" like, and I think that's simply because I was never made to feel that I should direct my dissatisfaction with the outside world inward. I explode exactly like my dad, I blame external factors for everything exactly like my dad. I would never self harm, the concept seems bizarre, yet when I am extremely frustrated I often have homicidal fantasies- which I imagine would be the more "male" response. I think a lot of it comes down to how you perceive your relationship to the outside world, and that's taught, not innate.

I was exposed at a young age to the idea that "the world is wrong, not me" while I think many girls are made to feel that they should adjust to the world. I have always felt that the world should bend to me- and my emotional difficulties are always reflective of this belief.

Corina86
12-01-13, 04:30 PM
@Ana Futura

1. you have a girl's name so I'm very confused about your gender

2. I think everyone has homicidal fantasies (at least I know I do). Men are being pushed more into: drinking, smoking, doing drugs, being sexually promiscuous, driving recklessly, shouting, swearing, being aggressive and self-destructive, while women are pushed towards keeping it all in, being perfectionists about they looks and their homes, thus being more prone to: eating disorders, OCD, anxiety and depression. This doesn't mean that men don't experience depression; in fact they are more likely to kill themselves; women are more likely to seek help and go to a therapist, while men who do so are considered weak and prefer to "treat" themselves with more "manly cures", like alcohol and drugs.

ana futura
12-01-13, 04:35 PM
@Ana Futura

1. you have a girl's name so I'm very confused about your gender

2. I think everyone has homicidal fantasies (at least I know I do). Men are being pushed more into: drinking, smoking, doing drugs, being sexually promiscuous, driving recklessly, shouting, swearing, being aggressive and self-destructive, while women are pushed towards keeping it all in, being perfectionists about they looks and their homes, thus being more prone to: eating disorders, OCD, anxiety and depression. This doesn't mean that men don't experience depression; in fact they are more likely to kill themselves; women are more likely to seek help and go to a therapist, while men who do so are considered weak and prefer to "treat" themselves with more "manly cures", like alcohol and drugs.

I am a woman. You can always click on a profile to see a user's gender. I was raised in a "gender neutral" fashion.

My point is that both men and women experience depression, but cultural expectations encourage that depression to manifest differently.

Depression often looks like "anger" in men, "sadness" in women.

Women with ADHD are more prone to self harm than the general population (and men with ADHD); men with ADHD are more prone to ODD than the general population (and women with ADHD). Both men and women with ADHD are more prone to suicide.

I think that ODD and self harm are two sides of the same coin. And by self harm I mean only acts like cutting or bulemia. Women are often taught to direct their frustration at themselves, men are often taught to direct their frustrations at the world.

It took me ages to come to terms with the fact that I was "depressed", just like it does for many men. I never get "sad", I get insanely angry and destroy objects and yell at people around me.

ana futura
12-01-13, 04:46 PM
This doesn't mean that men don't experience depression; in fact they are more likely to kill themselves.

The suicide rate for women with ADHD is extremely high. I believe the rates for men and women with ADHD are equal.

ana futura
12-01-13, 04:58 PM
Corina- I was a bit confused by your reply, but I think maybe you were reading it as if I was a man?

Anyway, my point was this- I am a woman, but many of my symptoms are "male" symptoms. I don't have any of the issues many women here have, and I have many of the issues that men here do.

I think this is due in large part to being raised as if gender didn't exist. I suspect that the ADHD'ers "natural" agitated state is ragey/ angry, with blame externalization (classic ODD). Women are taught to suppress this, men aren't. In women, those ODD symptoms turn into self harm, because they have to go somewhere.

Corina86
12-02-13, 05:06 AM
What I was saying was quite a generalization, I didn't meant to imply that a man/woman must have or must not have certain traits or symptoms. I was just stating what I've been seeing around me, in the media, on forums. I hope what I said didn't sound offensive, because it definitely wasn't my intention to tell anyone how he/she must feel or how to manifest.

ana futura
12-02-13, 05:49 AM
What I was saying was quite a generalization, I didn't meant to imply that a man/woman must have or must not have certain traits or symptoms. I was just stating what I've been seeing around me, in the media, on forums. I hope what I said didn't sound offensive, because it definitely wasn't my intention to tell anyone how he/she must feel or how to manifest.

I think the things you said are true- men do often appear to present in different ways than women do. It wasn't offensive at all. I just don't think there's anything biologically innate about it.

They're learned behaviors we pick up from the larger culture/ parents/ teachers, and biology probably has very little to do with it (although it's impossible to say for sure).

But I'm not sure about the men "keeping it all thing", or going for "manly" cures. I think it's more that women are taught to be weak- they are taught that they can't do things for themselves (even though they must do things for everyone else). I know women who have raised families, but literally can not change a light bulb, or buy replacement batteries for a flashlight without bringing it into the store with them. What the heck is that about? Living in a culture where you are constantly sent messages that you aren't supposed to do certain things has to mess with your feeling of self worth.

Anyway, mental health care is a taboo subject for men and women alike- no one wants to admit they see a shrink. But women are expected to be helpless, therefore they are more likely to seek outside help. Also, mental health professionals can have a patronizing air, and if you aren't comfortable with relinquishing control, they can be very difficult stomach. Women are raised to relinquish control at every turn.

My parents did not raise me that way. I think a lot more of us ladies would "present" like men (loud, aggressive, issues with authority) if our parents/ teachers didn't raise us to be dependent and meek. These things are easier to undo than people realize.

ana futura
12-02-13, 06:32 AM
I'm picking up that women ( generally, not all ) seem to have a much more practical / "do" based approach... So they aren't as susceptible to the kind of stagnation ( lifestyle wise ) a lot of men are.... Who knows, quite possibly it's not an ADD trait but a feminine one in general, bit of self reliance from growing up and having to self promote / manage / satisfy etc.


Stagnation, yes, that's me all over. And I think it's because I was never told I had to please anybody. My life is mine. Unfortunately with ADHD that freedom turns into "my life is mine to spend wasting away on the couch."

Employer tells me what to do? Screw you I'm gone. Teacher talks to me in a way I don't like? I'm dropping this class. Usually in a passive aggressive way though (like quitting over email), because I don't like confrontation.

I still can't handle disappointment, even though I get it all the time. I still have expectations that "things should be this way".

I would say if women are exempt from that, maybe it's because they don't have the freedom to think "my life is my own to screw up how I please".

Not sure I envy people who are more "mature" than me though. I'm a mess, but the alternative seems worse.

Corina86
12-02-13, 07:40 AM
@ Ana

100% agree with all your statements. I would like to point out that a lot of men and women are still raised and still follow the gender roles very precisely, because it's all they've ever seen around them. Despite my family being very liberal, my environment was very old-fashioned, lots of people around sticking to unhappy marriages, men abusing women physically, women taking advantage of men financially and children being nothing more than old-age-insurance for the parents. I would really like to experiment, at some point, life without all these stereotypes.

someothertime
12-04-13, 05:51 AM
Just scanning... thanks ana for some new perspective... defo... lookin like no addish at all mostly but with the new direction...

Take a look at matriarchal societies Corina... I think they will shed a fair bit of light on your train of thought here...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-mosuo-matriarchy-men-live-better-where-women-are-in-charge-a-627363.html

( i'm sure a gazillion things can be implied here... though I think the key is set roles... known through society... whatevert ehy may be or whereever.... now I can understand alot of "resistance" to the concept of set roles... Maybe roles is not the right term.... Boundaries perhaps.... )

Corina86
12-04-13, 11:04 AM
Just scanning... thanks ana for some new perspective... defo... lookin like no addish at all mostly but with the new direction...

Take a look at matriarchal societies Corina... I think they will shed a fair bit of light on your train of thought here...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-mosuo-matriarchy-men-live-better-where-women-are-in-charge-a-627363.html

( i'm sure a gazillion things can be implied here... though I think the key is set roles... known through society... whatevert ehy may be or whereever.... now I can understand alot of "resistance" to the concept of set roles... Maybe roles is not the right term.... Boundaries perhaps.... )

I don't agree to either gender dominating the other and I don't like preset roles or boundaries. I think ADHD-ers are even more trapped by these roles than the average NT, because we have different brains than the others.

someothertime
12-04-13, 11:19 AM
Structures is a better word for what I was thinking.... there was a reference somewhere maybe in a link on a science thread... discussing this... Maybe a good topic for another thread one day.... or even some more research... The whole autonomy vs "guides"... and where the line is.... Almost impossible to reverse engineer these into a society though.... maybe on a macro level..... but then that would be quite similar to what alot of us try to attain now...

I suppose for an analogy....what ana futura said..... "want to be autonomous so I can spend the rest of my life on a couch"(sorry thats my words, maybe not totally accurate ) kind of sums it up.....

Yeah.... I do not think choice for choice sake is as good as it's cracked up to be.... especially for us.... self determination.... fine tailored environments / tasks / activities..... fine....... choice all day everyday........ kaboom!

Fionagrape
12-04-13, 07:26 PM
I go to a lot of support group meetings For adults with ADHD in my area through CHADD.
I know we are grouped into separate "types" depending on how we are perceived by the neuro typicals, but I've found that when I ask people if they can relate, it doesn't matter which "type" of ADD/ADHD they have, or if they are male or female, we can all relate to each others symptoms, we all share the same difficulties, we are the same type, and we have much greater things to worry about than how our behavior is perceived (or is not perceived) by others.
I thought my father had it real good, because he was a man and he had my sympathetic, loving, caring mother to spend his life with. I being a woman have not been so lucky as to find a man who is willing to tolerate my shortcomings.
On the other hand, men are expected to plan the dinner date, take control of situations, be successful... I don't know which is harder, being a woman with ADD, or being a man with ADD. All I know is that it is very very hard.

someothertime
12-09-13, 02:59 AM
Ok, this is just a rephasing of most of the stuff that came before... if not the question itself... but it just doawned on me in this "phrasing"...

"Manhood"+add=not so nice a fit
"Womanhood"+add=more complimentary

Vague, generalisation I know... those "roles" and the expactations that come with them are where the key differences lie... *gals I'm more refering to social contexts btw... not practical expectations...

And thankyou fiona grape... the purpose of the thread was to try and clarify something I've been picking up in add women... not to say so much wh8ch one is better or worse...

If we dont have yellow, we don't have green. I know this topic is quiye triggering and I'm sorry.

Thanks again everyone!

stef
12-09-13, 04:33 AM
I wouldn't say more "complimentary", but a woman can "get away with it" because it's "cute" to be dizzy & forgetful.
(it is not fun, and not cute, at all...I was miserable...)

Daydreamin22
12-09-13, 09:50 AM
Decorating, the way she loves in romantic love is like the way shell love her children. The way her mother loved her is the way she'll love. So hopefully her mother was good to her. (This is all based on a John Mayer hit song)

Girls, you can break. You find out how much they can take. But, boys will be strong, boys soldier on. This goes out to all the guys lookin out for every girl you are the light and the weight of the world. Does anyone recognize the lyrics I ended up quoting? :)

Leeleebug
12-15-13, 07:08 AM
I feel like I have always acted like a boy since being a child. I am loud, boisterous, competitive, and cocky. I used to be the kid and teen that was always sent to the hallway, and still causing disruption outside the closed door....

I can be bold or confident around the right crowd....but mostly I am self conscious of my inconsistencies and try to monitor the way I come off so can make sure I'm not being obnoxious, hyper and ditzy. Most of the time, exercising awareness and control is failed.
I feel less dainty and famine though. I throw myself around like a dude, always bumping into things and knocking stuff over. I can't be graceful...and I have no attention to detail and decorating style to use for my home...bare walls...ugh!

sastews
01-02-14, 10:17 PM
Yes, I can very much relate to this. Especially the "taking charge" bit and freaking out after. It's like, I *know* I have to be calm(something "kicks in" idk what?) or else what needs to be done to "save" the situation won't get done.

But, this is like only for extreme situations.

I tend to freak over tiny, insignificant situations. :o I think this is common for many ADHD'ers, from what I've read on the forums. Many are highly stressed by (what others see as) insignificant situations, but when it comes to the important situations, they tend to be under stressed.

Agree, same for me, to a T. It's when I have time to actually THINK and OBSESS over the little details that I get paralyzed by indecision. In major events, I can spring into action and take charge..

Lauralight
01-15-14, 12:12 AM
I only really know 2 guys with ADHD; my dad & one of my girlfriends' husband. And now that a I think about it, I don't really hang out with that many guys.

I think I'm less impulsive in my spending than my dad. At least I spend less, but that could be due to having less to spend.

My dad gets angry & explosive when feeling insecure & I tend to get stabby & depressed.

I'm more logical & thoughtful with decisions & dad is more emotional & impulsive. (when we actually make a decision)

Dad freaks out in emergency situations & I 'take charge' until the emergency is done, then I freak.

Hope this is what you're looking for.

I so identify, my most recent x has lead a terribly messy life with a super dysfunctional family, and I watch him melt down and end up impulsively attacking his cousin to try to kick him out of the house. We broke up over the violence! even if there's a huge add component. I hope he gets diagnoses and better help in the future. He's not in a hurry to get any anger manage counseling, even though I said that was it for us....I couldn't live with someone willing to solve problems with their fists.

Lauralight
01-15-14, 12:14 AM
From what I understand and I do not have the research handy there are no trait differences between males and females with adhd.

There are different manifestations based on gender expectations. Women don't expect "the wife will do it" or "the husband will do it". Men across the board tend to do less of the unpaid work but women will suffer extreme judgement when they can't keep up.

Men with adhd are told to find an NT partner to balance out their weakness in ADHD. Many NT wives try to do it all because the social pressure on women to keep house, to manage children is extreme. This in many ways works for men with adhd at least as far as compensation goes. However, it can open them up to emotional abuse as the coping mechanisms of the wives breaks down.

Women with adhd are more prone to experiencing spousal abuse, breakdown of marriage because NT men have the same societal expectations as everyone else. Men are more likely to end the relationship rather than stay and ***** about it. Not before they've done a ton of damage tho.

As a woman with adhd I often read the lives of the NT women expressed in the NT section and marvel at how little some men do. I have been a single parent so lines like, "I feel like a single parent" tend to not impress me as just so horrible. I often think that women with adhd get more done because there is no societal out for not doing stuff. I've also noticed when a woman with adhd complains of being overwhelmed when she's doing 20-30x as much as the adhd guys, the NT wives giving advice will berate her for not doing enough and insist that she is being uncompassionate of her husband. Even complaints of abuse, physical, mental and emotional get dismissed on the grounds that ADHD causes NT's great aggravation.

That's my experience.

I have no idea what NT means? Is it not having add person??