View Full Version : Do you believe in karma?


Gilthranon
12-22-13, 11:12 AM
This woman told me she believed in karma yesterday, told her I didn't, wanted to tell her about having ADD you quickly lose that faith (we deserve the world !!! at least for our intentions and regret of not fulfilling them), but on what point ? So I just told her don't think people get what they deserve, and you deserve better !

Because I think cause and consequence is like the wind in a constant evolution, influenced by external factors, while the combination of multiple personal actions will voluntarily and on the long term involuntarily create chain reactions resulting in every single living organism, from the smallest cell to the mindblowingly largest objects in the universe being in the position of experiencing the accumulated events (by the longer the more sources - butterfly effect) influencing and building up one on another.

Call it time.

Thereby, no one can 'receive what he or she deserves' Because what is 'deserving' ? A consideration, or comparison of the effort, morality or kind of input of one's actions, against the personally judged quality of the expected result right ? Or am I crazy ?

Destiny can not exist from this point of view as personal convictions will guide your actions, but external factors influencing the cause of events, future is practically unpredictable. Something tells me there is a certain factor of relative certitude in prediction the future. Isn't this called... some mathematical term...

Do you believe one get's what one deserves ?

Do you believe in karma ?

Do you believe in destiny ?

someothertime
12-22-13, 12:12 PM
Do you believe one get's what one deserves ? no

Do you believe in karma ? yes

Do you believe in destiny ? yes ( elements of chance + karma constantly interact with ones destiny imo )

Some might then say this is not true destiny...

stef
12-22-13, 12:13 PM
NO i don't! believe in karma or getting what you deserve, life just doesnt work that way!
this kind of thinking, ruined my life for years,
to the point that i would sit trying to logically figure exactly what I did, to "deserve" anything bad that happened to me.

but yes i believe in destiny, sometimes.

Abi
12-22-13, 12:25 PM
Do you believe one get's what one deserves ? No. I'm not even sure if I accept that one can objectively determine what oneself or another "deserves"

Do you believe in karma ? Absolutely not.

Do you believe in destiny ? Yes, but as a consequence of genetic determinism on the micro level and historical determinism on the macro level; not due to some immaterial or esoteric force.

sarahsweets
12-22-13, 01:31 PM
I believe in being kind and showing compassion.

midnightstar
12-22-13, 08:45 PM
Do you believe one get's what one deserves ? No but I wish it was true

Do you believe in karma ? Yes but thats more because of hope

Do you believe in destiny ? No because everything is too random in this world for the concept of destiny to work.

pooka
12-22-13, 10:09 PM
getting what one deserves - no
karma - sometimes
destiny - absolutely, in small ways

If karma is real I'm questioning who's keeping track of mine, because I'm probably way better off than I deserve to be. Maybe it'll all catch up with me later...

dvdnvwls
12-23-13, 01:27 AM
Do I believe one gets what one deserves?
Of course some people get what they deserve, sometimes. Do you mean whether I believe every person always gets what he deserves in the end? No. First, I don't think it's possible to compute an accurate total of what any person really deserves. Second, I think there are lots of examples to prove that some particular person couldn't possibly have got what he deserved, thus disproving the whole thing. Yesterday I heard part of a radio documentary about a strong, loving, funny, compassionate 16-year-old who died of an aggressive bone cancer. Enough said.

Do I believe in karma?
I think "believing" something (believing it's true) and "believing IN" something (wishing it was true but not caring if it really is true or not) are very different. Anyone who believes IN karma, i.e. they wish it was the truth and have decided to act accordingly, that's fine. Maybe that's a good way to live. If it makes people treat each other compassionately and doesn't cause any harmful side effects, then even if it's a lie maybe it's worth it. On the other hand, anyone who believes that karma IS the truth has a lot of fancy explaining to do.

Do I believe in destiny?
Like karma, I think anyone who believes destiny is the truth has a lot of fancy (and extremely difficult) explaining to do. Unlike karma, I don't think "believing IN" destiny has any chance of being a healthy or useful or encouraging belief, and I think people who wish destiny was true are probably just missing the point.

Fraser_0762
12-23-13, 01:47 AM
No I don't.

Anybody who does is blinkered. Just look at the world around you. It's the people that cause suffering to everybody else who live the extravagant lifestyles.

If you want to be rich in the world, be cruel to everybody and use them as stepping stones to get there. Thats how it works!

dvdnvwls
12-23-13, 01:52 AM
No I don't.

Anybody who does is blinkered. Just look at the world around you. It's the people that cause suffering to everybody else who live the extravagant lifestyles.

If you want to be rich in the world, be cruel to everybody and use them as stepping stones to get there. Thats how it works!
http://www.bartleby.com/122/50.html

Fraser_0762
12-23-13, 01:59 AM
http://www.bartleby.com/122/50.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/food-banks-debate-video-iain-2941100

dvdnvwls
12-23-13, 02:27 AM
Canada had a mini-version of the same thing this past week - one govt minister making similarly idiotic comments.

Twiggy
12-23-13, 02:49 AM
Do you believe one get's what one deserves ? No

Do you believe in karma ? Yes

Do you believe in destiny ? No

I believe in Karma, but I don't follow any religion. I'd like some good Karma to come my way real soon.

Fraser_0762
12-23-13, 03:03 AM
Canada had a mini-version of the same thing this past week - one govt minister making similarly idiotic comments.

Thats because they're all the same.

The rich don't care about the rest of us, why would they? They didn't get rich by giving to the needy!

Daydreamin22
12-23-13, 04:51 AM
What goes around definitely comes around. Especially if you’re evil. Don’t ask me how I know that. Was just reading about evil so I can catch all of these grown up bullies. Great book. NYT’s best seller/award winner. Put your dukes up people.

Fuzzy12
12-23-13, 05:08 AM
No to all questions :)

stef
12-23-13, 05:22 AM
"what goes around comes around": sometimes it does, sometimes not!
of course there is the obvious; if you've committed a felony, then are arrested - yes
if you are horrible to everyone, you will find yourself with few friends...etc.
if you try to spread goodness etc, you will be fulfilled;

I have been thinking about this thread a lot.
My cousin's ex-husband, was just so narcisisist/manapulative; got her to go along with his Big Plans (she was supportive, quiet wife in the background and he kind of crushed her true personality)
finally he left her, he married someone else. and convinced everyone, that this was really ok. well that happens in life of course, but nevertheless
divorce and annullment, humilation etc...
and everything he did, he succeeded; and she is left with nearly no income;
and this man died fairly recently, leaving his grown children devasted (they reconiled with him) ;
it just makes no sense, whatsovever and "Karma" has nothing to do with any of this!

sarek
12-23-13, 07:59 AM
I answered yes, because that is the basic answer. However, most popular ideas about Karma and/or getting what you deserve are hopelessly limited, incomplete and incorrect. For proper understanding much more knowledge is needed.

Abi
12-23-13, 08:02 AM
... which Sarek possesses ;)

sarek
12-23-13, 08:06 AM
... which Sarek possesses ;)

I admit, i did rather sound that way didnt I?

daveddd
12-23-13, 08:07 AM
not really


destiny- its something you control

Abi
12-23-13, 08:07 AM
I admit, i did rather sound that way didnt I?

*nod* :)

Daydreamin22
12-23-13, 08:10 AM
speaking of good and bad… was just readingg a book ab evil. BC I have to protect myself from bullies.


The paradoxical thing is that evil people are proactive. They are the ones who start the wars, create tension among friends, disrupt the workplace, hurt innocent people without cause and create chaos for their own entertainment purposes. Evil people are proactive. No one asks for these things or wants to become a target or victim of these wrongdoers, but evil people create the problems of the world.

Verbansky, Peter (2011-09-24). Defeating Evil People (Kindle Locations 742-745). Palson Media, LLC. Kindle Edition.

sulfurousIo_4
12-27-13, 08:45 PM
Karma is an interesting topic indeed, though it seems to have gained a bad reputation in the West. It just means 'deed(s)' in Sanskrit and, as I understand it, is very much part of a logical, rational law of cause and effect rather than being part of the judgemental cosmic punishment system that many people think of when they hear the word.

So...

Do you believe one gets what one deserves?
Not always. A child who loses their life in a tsunami, for example, cannot be said to have 'deserved' their tragic fate. If I do something hurtful to someone and they do something hurtful back to me in retaliation, however, I can be said to have deserved that. Likewise, someone who always acts with kindness towards others probably deserves any kindness they receive back. The sense of 'deserving' is purely subjective, however, and has much more to do with human perception than the actual law of karma.

Do you believe in karma?
Yes. I only reap what I have sown. I may not have sown all the seeds in this lifetime, however. Still, it is precisely because I only reap what I have sown that I have power over this present life. If I want to get favourable results, I must act accordingly.

Do you believe in destiny?
I suppose not in the usual sense. I believe that destiny is brought about by one's own actions (across many lifetimes) and not by outside forces. It might not always seem 'fair' according to our own values, but I think if we think of life as a long learning process, it makes sense that we'd receive results in the present from actions done in past lifetimes. That's what made it make sense to me, anyway.

Kunga Dorji
01-02-14, 09:19 AM
... which Sarek possesses ;)

Well if Sarek does not, I am sure I can provide on this point.
After all- it is a basic concept where I come from.

The interesting thing about the answers here is that nobody has defined what karma is so that they can get across what it is that they do, or do not believe in.

Karma is the law of cause and effect, nothing more, nothing less.

It manifests itself not in terms of what one gets- but who one becomes.

A simple example-- if you constantly make mistakes and blame them on other people, you lose the chance to work out why you are making mistakes, and you think worse of the people you blame.
You repeat the mistakes- and become stupid and embittered, because being open is too hard.

It is not some sort of cosmic accounting book that says "he gave away a million dollars in his last lifetime- so he has a million dollars coming to him this lifetime".

In fact, the concept of previous lifetimes does not even have to be brought into it-- it is a tough one to prove, and would just get everyone bogged down in fruitless debate.

To properly explain it
an act is said to accrue bad karma when a person seeks to act to their own advantage while disadvantaging someone else.

An act is said to accrue good karma when a socially positive act is done with the motive of looking good/being respected/getting something in return.

The most significant acts are positive ones that are done automatically - without thought of reward or consequence- ie immediately reaching out to help an old lady who fell over in the street-- done only because it needed doing and you were the one there to do it.

Under this theoretical model a thoughtless or unintentional act is much less negative than a deliberately selfish one-- but as ADDers know even those unintended acts can pack quite a punch in terms of harmful consequences.

Yes I do believe in karma.
As for destiny- not strictly-- ones karma leaves one in a situation where a limited subset of destinies are available to one- not a single destiny. Each act modifies that subset of possible futures.

someothertime
01-02-14, 12:52 PM
Thanks for the clarification Kunga...

And what about an absence of act... if one has intent... yet no action... i.e. One may wish love toward every living being yet reside in isolation, what is to be said about karma without action?

Kunga Dorji
01-02-14, 04:17 PM
Thanks for the clarification Kunga...

And what about an absence of act... if one has intent... yet no action... i.e. One may wish love toward every living being yet reside in isolation, what is to be said about karma without action?

Good question- many advanced Buddhist practitioners spend extended periods in retreat- sometimes years-- but that is done with the intention of advancing their functionality, so as to contribute better to humanity.

That sort of gets back to the "putting on one's own oxygen mask" scenario discussed on another recent thread.

Ken2013
02-12-14, 02:04 AM
No I don't.

Anybody who does is blinkered. Just look at the world around you. It's the people that cause suffering to everybody else who live the extravagant lifestyles.

If you want to be rich in the world, be cruel to everybody and use them as stepping stones to get there. Thats how it works!

I absolutely resent the fact that a lot of the Politicians and senior management got to where they are by causing suffering to everybody else (as you say) or applying sycophancy in the optimal way, and STILL causing suffering when they're at the top, as is the case in Australia. They may be rich and living luxurious lives, but I wouldn't ever want to be in their shoes, constantly knowing how one got there.

The notion of Karma appeals to my sense of justice (emotional), but I'm unable to quantify how much Karma one collects or loses for specific tasks. If only it could be a measured entity...

In the mean-time, I'll focus on not being malicious towards others. People who are decent will eventually respect you for that.

Kunga Dorji
02-12-14, 04:24 AM
I absolutely resent the fact that a lot of the Politicians and senior management got to where they are by causing suffering to everybody else (as you say) or applying sycophancy in the optimal way, and STILL causing suffering when they're at the top, as is the case in Australia. They may be rich and living luxurious lives, but I wouldn't ever want to be in their shoes, constantly knowing how one got there.


Other people's karma is their business, and the timelines for the outworking of karma may be somewhat longer than are allowed for in the philosophical systems of many of the readers here (ie they may relate to future incarnations).
However- karma is "becoming" - so stupid, selfish acts that are not noted, regretted and corrected (even if that correcting takes some time) play out in the sort of person we become.



In the mean-time, I'll focus on not being malicious towards others. People who are decent will eventually respect you for that.
Being able to live with yourself is more important.

Ken2013
02-12-14, 04:33 AM
Other people's karma is their business, and the timelines for the outworking of karma may be somewhat longer than are allowed for in the philosophical systems of many of the readers here (ie they may relate to future incarnations).
However- karma is "becoming" - so stupid, selfish acts that are not noted, regretted and corrected (even if that correcting takes some time) play out in the sort of person we become.



Being able to live with yourself is more important.

Yes I agree that being able to live with yourself is more important, providing you have a relatively high sense of "morality" to begin with (which shouldn't be an issue for ASD / ADHD-ers due to our higher sensitivity).