i just read through this thread, and think the modifications were a wise move.

i still believe, however, that a debate forum would be a valuable addition, here's why....

1. human beings who are adhd are still human beings subjected to the current events...politics, social justice issues, varying forms of entertainment, on and on, that other people are. it is natural and actually healthy to discuss these topics because it enables an individual to learn. never a bad idea as far as i can see.

2. for those who want this type of forum, and do not find it here, it may well prevent them from having to find other venues within which to bring up their particular subject of interest. in other words, from a management standpoint, i suspect it would increase use of the forum as a whole, which i'm guessing would be a good thing.

3. as was said, folks enter at their own risk, so anyone uncomfortable with debate is perfectly free to ignore the fact that it even exists.

4. as for it's benefit to adders specifically, aside from referring to point #1, i feel it would be extremely helpful for people to be able to stay within the community wherein they're most at home, but still have the option of approaching the other issues in life. to concentrate solely on adhd, with the altenative being the chat section which is certainly not a place for debate, in my mind seems to encourage a sort of obssession with one's dx, the price being that we let other issues of importance fall along the wayside.

that said, i think the admin and moderators do a great job organizing everything. i have gained a great deal of insight, wisdom, information, and support from countless people here, and have tried to offer the same in return. personally, the very respect i have gained for so many, as a result of our interactions, is one of the primary reasons i would like the opportunity to discuss various other subjects with them.

i just read through this thread, and think the modifications were a wise move.

i still believe, however, that a debate forum would be a valuable addition, here's why....

1. human beings who are adhd are still human beings subjected to the current events...politics, social justice issues, varying forms of entertainment, on and on, that other people are. it is natural and actually healthy to discuss these topics because it enables an individual to learn. never a bad idea as far as i can see.

2. for those who want this type of forum, and do not find it here, it may well prevent them from having to find other venues within which to bring up their particular subject of interest. in other words, from a management standpoint, i suspect it would increase use of the forum as a whole, which i'm guessing would be a good thing.

3. as was said, folks enter at their own risk, so anyone uncomfortable with debate is perfectly free to ignore the fact that it even exists.

4. as for it's benefit to adders specifically, aside from referring to point #1, i feel it would be extremely helpful for people to be able to stay within the community wherein they're most at home, but still have the option of approaching the other issues in life. to concentrate solely on adhd, with the altenative being the chat section which is certainly not a place for debate, in my mind seems to encourage a sort of obssession with one's dx, the price being that we let other issues of importance fall along the wayside.

that said, i think the admin and moderators do a great job organizing everything. i have gained a great deal of insight, wisdom, information, and support from countless people here, and have tried to offer the same in return. personally, the very respect i have gained for so many, as a result of our interactions, is one of the primary reasons i would like the opportunity to discuss various other subjects with them.
Free, I second your motion. I could not have written this as well as you did. I believe, and have believed for a long time that obsessing and talking ONLY about one's Dx also creates an almost "cult like" environment, which is NOT healthy. I have seen it on this forum, and as the study of "cults" was once one of my specialties, I know it when I see it. It's dangerous, and does not invoke mental health for existing outside of that arena. ;)

A small subforum for debate. Most large forums have one. It would be an asset to this forum, and as I have said before, enter at one's own risk policy.:cool:

~Viktoria

I am begnning to think this is necessary now too. Please hammer out some of what might define such a place so it requires the least amount of intervention from staff.
Ian.

As I've said before, it continues to be an option the staff look at, but no decision has been made to open such a section here.

A small subforum for debate

sub-forum??? Do you mean a section for debating the issues brought up here or would there be a choosen topic not addressed on the other sections?? Would people who passionaly disagree on a topic covered in one of the other sections could come and "hash it out". I guess what I am asking is how would this differ from the other sections because it seem like a lot of the post already out there end up in a debate any way!!!! Like the "do you think ADDers should exercise the right to procreate" thread in chit chat!!!!

IMHO and experiance there are always that small number of posters that turn abusive when their opinion is not that of the majority who will turn abusive. I'd think you would have to be extremely careful and I would definatly post a warning..."Enter at your own risk" type of thing. lol

I am begnning to think this is necessary now too. Please hammer out some of what might define such a place so it requires the least amount of intervention from staff.
Ian.A debate section such as on another forum is as follows-:

Enter at ones own risk - stated.
Forum is not responsible for content-stated.
Rules of debate-stated
Can be set so user has to re-enter their forum password, which equals giving clear indication that they came into the sub forum to debate.
Issues on debate forum must NOT be discussed on main forum.
Members are encouraged not to abuse the poster personally, but may counter argue another's viewpoint.

Debating is quite healthy, and quite normal to human beings. Futs has said that some can turn abusive although this becomes rarer if people are encouraged to hone their debating skills, but the "enter at one's own risk" and "forum takes no responsibility" drastically reduces any work for the forums admin. Basically, the debaters are on their own.

Just an idea :)

Viktoria~
I really like what you just posted. You always have very good ideas. I personally think that if it is able to be done, some type of debating forum here is exactly what might be needed right now. That way the threads can stay on the topic of the orginal comment or question.

sub-forum??? Do you mean a section for debating the issues brought up here or would there be a choosen topic not addressed on the other sections?? Would people who passionaly disagree on a topic covered in one of the other sections could come and "hash it out". I guess what I am asking is how would this differ from the other sections because it seem like a lot of the post already out there end up in a debate any way!!!! Like the "do you think ADDers should exercise the right to procreate" thread in chit chat!!!!
Good points! Yes, the thread on pro-creation should be in a debate forum imo ;)

One may also ask another member to enter the debate forum for discussion so that the general forums are NOT disrupted.

I have seen this at work, and for all the against a debate forum people, once it was up and running, it overtook the chit-chat area in popularity per views. Human nature at it's funniest. :)

Viktoria~
I really like what you just posted. You always have very good ideas. I personally think that if it is able to be done, some type of debating forum here is exactly what might be needed right now. That way the threads can stay on the topic of the orginal comment or question.
I agree Minn, too much debating is going on the main forum. I am as guilty as any others:rolleyes: !

I also think a debate forum should not have posts going out on Google :)

Good points! Yes, the thread on pro-creation should be in a debate forum imo ;)

One may also ask another member to enter the debate forum for discussion so that the general forums are NOT disrupted.

I have seen this at work, and for all the against a debate forum people, once it was up and running, it overtook the chit-chat area in popularity per views. Human nature at it's funniest. :)
YES.........that is a very good "point". Asking another member to go into the debate forum to finish the topic. But here is my question, it was stated that the administration would not really have any involvement..................but could a person from the staff ask the two members if they could please move their discussion into the debate forum?

YES.........that is a very good "point". Asking another member to go into the debate forum to finish the topic. But here is my question, it was stated that the administration would not really have any involvement..................but could a person from the staff ask the two members if they could please move their discussion into the debate forum?
Oh YES!!!! That becomes "put up or shut up" :D It gives a little more control to the staff. Sometimes that is needed, and the two or however many involved, will often work it out for themselves in a much more civil matter "if" admin leave them to their own devices. I have seen many friendships come from debaters....and marriages:eek: !!!

Hey now don't be jumping the gun on me or coming to the wrong conclusions I only stated that some members could become abusive and that there should be a warning posted that was all. I like a good debate just as much as the next guy.

Hey now don't be jumping the gun on me or coming to the wrong conclusions I only stated that some members could become abusive and that there should be a warning posted that was all. I like a good debate just as much as the next guy.
Futs, I was agreeing with you:D My bad English grammar :p

I have seen many friendships come from debaters....and marriages:eek: !!!

oh and Rhaps I am looking for a husband :rolleyes: think maybe i could just come into the debate threads and hang out...never know who I will meet.

Just another question, you have mentioned a website that explains the fine skills of debate (just in case I want to participate--but i am a somewhat shy person-- you know :p ) could you share that site with those of us who might be interested in learning or preparing for the grand debate? :mad: Just kidding...I never get mad just even :eek: *silly me*

My 2 canadian cents

I think the majoroty of people that would come in a forum that is expacially for debate with no rules persay..would conduct themselves with great respect. There will always be an execption. A debate can be hot and very interesting...till there is name calling...
When you start name callings...it's over no more respect.
If there was to be a rule,,,i would suggest that one greatly. :)
You could also post a warning like this one...

debates, and other hot button topics. Warning, not for the easely offended

I think the notion of restricting debate to a particular subforum is illogical to the point of being ludicrous.

At what point do you draw the line between discussion and debate? The second somebody disagrees with what you say?

Should this thread be moved to the debate forum, because I disagree with what other people are saying?

People are ALWAYS going to disagree with each other over things. If you declare SOME of these disagreements "debates", then what are the other ones? Non-issues?

Without a conflict of ideas, no conversation can accomplish anything.

I see it as something like the religious and spiritual issues here. Those issues have been restricted to a special forum and to a great extent the pressure has been taken off the main forums on those points. It's an "opt in" type of default which seems to be working very well. That forum is up and running virtually trouble free and we met the goals of the main forums need to be more global in tone.

Some like it hot and I can see that an area that has more tolerance for heated discussion would be attractive for those that enjoy a fiesty discussion. I'm struggling with a number of heated discussions dominating space on the main forums where I expect that energy could be taken to a platform less broadly exposed and again would be an "opt in" so it's easy to avoid for the majority who won't be interested and or intimidated by the intensity.

The silent majority just fade away into the distance when the temperature rises and the gentle and vulnerable need space first. The thicker skinned of us will find our way in debate regardless.
Ian.

Futs, I was agreeing with you:D My bad English grammar :p


Clarify, clarify, clarify see how less stressful life is when you question anothers "tone" in a post. :D I just need to nap after work before logging on...aww well live and learn. :o

And what would the point be of having such a forum? Every one is entitled to what they think and believe. No matter what you do or say, you will normally not "Change" a persons view.

I think it would be a mistake, but thats my view. I wont argue with people. I like the fact that there are no hostilitys here. Part of the reason that I became a member. I came here to learn and help, simple as that.

Of course being human and trying to get people to see things as you see them is part of being human, History shows us this. And usally its not pretty. Some times there is no such thing as a inteligent conversation.

Hope I havnt offended anyone.

Ian, right on, my friend.....so when do we get to test our skin in that fire??!!:D

I forgot who posted just before me (sorry!:o) but to answer the question as to what the point would be............for me, it would be EDUCATION AND MENTAL STIMULATION!!!!:D

Call me a geek but THAT's about the best combination you can get anywhere!!!!!

Free

And what would the point be of having such a forum? Every one is entitled to what they think and believe. No matter what you do or say, you will normally not "Change" a persons view.

I think it would be a mistake, but thats my view. I wont argue with people. I like the fact that there are no hostilitys here. Part of the reason that I became a member. I came here to learn and help, simple as that.

Of course being human and trying to get people to see things as you see them is part of being human, History shows us this. And usally its not pretty. Some times there is no such thing as a inteligent conversation.

Hope I havnt offended anyone.

You haven't offended me any. I think that is why they are considering it being a warned section...you don't have to enter if you don't wish to. I agree with you that I appreciate the supportive atmosphere the admins and mods are working so hard to promote in the forums but I don't think a little debate now and then would hurt either. I know I'm riding the fence on this one and when I slip and fall its gonna hurt like a motha but then we all take risks. Hugs to new members. :D

I think that the concept of a "Debate" sub-forum is developing here nicely...two things have been mentioned that I think would be invaluable to such a forum:

1) a Sticky with clearly defined rules of debating for those who brave the arena and
want to learn "how" to effectively debate...no password issued until this has
been read?

2) I think "creating" debate issues would be great, too. Debate doesn't HAVE to be
"hot", there are so many ideas which can be discussed. Why not set up a few
more neutral topics for those who are looking to get their feet wet.



Keep the ideas coming and we will get there yet. I would be interested in hearing from everyone, though, how it would be determined that something needs to be moved to the debate forum? I agree with Clam here, too, that discussion is an intregral part of most threads and don't think we need the added stress of "microsurgery" for each and every thread that creates healthy discussion.

Kim

I think the notion of restricting debate to a particular subforum is illogical to the point of being ludicrous.

At what point do you draw the line between discussion and debate? The second somebody disagrees with what you say?

Should this thread be moved to the debate forum, because I disagree with what other people are saying?

People are ALWAYS going to disagree with each other over things. If you declare SOME of these disagreements "debates", then what are the other ones? Non-issues?

Without a conflict of ideas, no conversation can accomplish anything.
Clam, there is a line between discussion and debate, but it certainly isn't a debate right now because I clearly disagree with you. I don't expect to change your mind, I don't even want to, and couldn't.

Here's a very quick online disctionary description of what determines "debate"
Quick definitions (Debate)

noun: the formal presentation of and opposition to a stated proposition (usually followed by a vote)
noun: a discussion in which reasons are advanced for and against some proposition or proposal
verb: argue with one another (Example: "We debated the question of abortion")
verb: discuss the pros and cons of an issue
verb: think about carefully; weigh
verb: have an argument about something Also, "debate" isn't always disagreeing. It can be arguments for and against something. Even arguing on behalf of another's viewpoint apart from your own.

It's great for mental stimulation. :)

oh and Rhaps I am looking for a husband :rolleyes: think maybe i could just come into the debate threads and hang out...never know who I will meet.

Just another question, you have mentioned a website that explains the fine skills of debate (just in case I want to participate--but i am a somewhat shy person-- you know :p ) could you share that site with those of us who might be interested in learning or preparing for the grand debate? :mad: Just kidding...I never get mad just even :eek: *silly me*
LOL** Deeper:D! **will try to hook up Deeper with James**

The website in question is CLOSED. It had 15,000+ members. The Admin decided to go against any form of discussions that were lighter in topic [no chit chat], no debate, no forum for disagreements, and the entire forum collapsed. I withdrew as a mod there due to the way it was headed, as did many others.

It was a theology forum, and in some ways, the owner turned from neutral to
avidly against anyone who believed in a deity. He lost his ability to remain distant and ended up being called "God S******". Not nice, but he hurt many people and subsequently the people turned on him.

I met Andrei there ;)

And what would the point be of having such a forum? Every one is entitled to what they think and believe. No matter what you do or say, you will normally not "Change" a persons view.

I think it would be a mistake, but thats my view. I wont argue with people. I like the fact that there are no hostilitys here. Part of the reason that I became a member. I came here to learn and help, simple as that.

Of course being human and trying to get people to see things as you see them is part of being human, History shows us this. And usally its not pretty. Some times there is no such thing as a inteligent conversation.

Hope I havnt offended anyone.
You just made the point by your last statement. You would never need to apologize for merely stating your views in a debate forum. You really didn't need to apologize here.:)

About changing anothers view.....not always. Someone did mange to change a few of my views here. I am glad she did. :eek:

~Viktoria

I think the notion of restricting debate to a particular subforum is illogical to the point of being ludicrous.

At what point do you draw the line between discussion and debate? The second somebody disagrees with what you say?

Should this thread be moved to the debate forum, because I disagree with what other people are saying?

People are ALWAYS going to disagree with each other over things. If you declare SOME of these disagreements "debates", then what are the other ones? Non-issues?

Without a conflict of ideas, no conversation can accomplish anything.

Clammy-

How very (crank up the way-back machine) Phil Donohue of you!! :p

Anyone remember how he used to pace and say stuff like, "Who gets to say what is moral/amoral?"...."What is truth?...Who's truth will you abide by?"...etc....

Er...yeah...anyway...back to the question(s) at hand...

I find this issue completely absorbing, because I think it's resolution, or lack there of, is at the root of a civilization's dynamics.

By this, I mean the following:

1. Do we voluntarily value creating a set of criteria regarding:


a. content
b. behavior
c. ethics


2. Do we, as a community, or as individuals, prefer to speak and think without censure?

3. What do we want, individually and collectively, and what is acceptible as a way of getting what we want?

a. Will we solicit a vote?
b. Have open debate?
c. Expect moderators to decide?

For me, these issues mirror the same questions, in micro-form, that the world is grappling with today...

How do we deal with conflict?

and...

Are we willing or able to learn from others whose values are not our own?

I think the answer(s) to the two questions above are crucial, and the hallmark of sucess, IMHO, is how and if people can hammer these issues out to the satisfaction of those people.

Clammy-

How very (crank up the way-back machine) Phil Donohue of you!! :p

Anyone remember how he used to pace and say stuff like, "Who gets to say what is moral/amoral?"...."What is truth?...Who's truth will you abide by?"...etc....

Er...yeah...anyway...back to the question(s) at hand...

I find this issue completely absorbing, because I think it's resolution, or lack there of, is at the root of a civilization's dynamics.

By this, I mean the following:

1. Do we voluntarily value creating a set of criteria regarding:


a. content
b. behavior
c. ethics


2. Do we, as a community, or as individuals, prefer to speak and think without censure?

3. What do we want, individually and collectively, and what is acceptible as a way of getting what we want?

a. Will we solicit a vote?
b. Have open debate?
c. Expect moderators to decide?

For me, these issues mirror the same questions, in micro-form, that the world is grappling with today...

How do we deal with conflict?

and...

Are we willing or able to learn from others whose values are not our own?

I think the answer(s) to the two questions above are crucial, and the hallmark of sucess, IMHO, is how and if people can hammer these issues out to the satisfaction of those people.

this is great stuff, stuck!!! and by great, i mean it's what i think too ... heh.

thanks for sharing your thoughts.

i'd love to go into it more, but, if i do so at this time, i'll have some real-life conflict of my own to deal with.

doing the mommy-get-the-kids-going routine,

wheezie

here are the questions i've asked myself regarding my thoughts on a debate sub-forum.

1) why here, how would it benefit the ADDF community?

2) why would we expect posters to 'play nice' in a debate forum if moderated, civil discussion is a stretch on occasion?

3) the main goals at ADDF are education and support. a secondary (unstated?) goal, i suppose, is that the information be accurate if you are posting "facts." so, how would the admins and mods be able to assure that those two goals are *not* compromised with the addition of a debate section?

my answers ...

1) personally, i don’t think it would enhance ADDF, i think if anything, heated discussions and hurt feelings that may arise in a debate section would spill into other areas of the forum.

2) i think that it's all too easy for posters to forget about the effect their words can have, and it's too easy for readers to read into a post something that wasn't intended. inviting only those who *won't* get their feelings hurt easily to debate in a sub-forum seems like it could lead to victim-blaming. a victim gets whalloped or ganged up on and are told, in essence, "you shouldn't have been here if you can't take it."

3) i don't see how the integrity of the forum goals could be maintained in an unmoderated sub-forum. and moderated debate sections are inherently flawed. any moderator is going to influence the debate, just as any news agancy brings some biases to the news they present.

underlying this decision is a real practical understanding of how the politics here work. ultimately, we the people of ADDF, don't get to vote. even if someone did set up a poll, the admins could respond to the poll in whatever way they chose. they do all the work to run this forum and probably pay the bulk of any bills ( if there are any, i really have no idea how much $ it takes to keep a site going.) anyway, they make the rules, we come here for information and community support and are expected to abide by them.....

if a discussion is just getting interesting (in the eyes of one who likes a good debate ;) ) and a mod cuts it off, any interested parties could debate by joining a mailing list -- off site. i'm not very computer savvy so i'm not sure if this is a practical solution and i know that directing others to another forum in a post at ADDF is a no-no, but, we provide our e-mails in our profiles, so, a mailing list seems like it'd be plausible anyway ...

arguably,

w.

heated discussions and hurt feelings that may arise in a debate section would spill into other areas of the forum.

A debate sub-forum would serve the "comminuity", in the same manner as the "specified" section for Spirituality, has. The spirituality section is the place the adminstraors/moderators direct those who post are of a relegious/spiritual nature. Instead of not allowing people to talk about there spiritual side they set up a specific section for those type of discussions. If I read the responses correctly having a place for relegious discussion has provided relieve for the other sections of the site. It has allowed those interested in such topics to dicuss these topics which has greatly decreased the incidences of relegious references in other post. When relegious topics are approached in other sections the moderators, even other posters will refer the "offender" to these specilzed section set aside for this.

Having a section for debate will give the moderators/adminstrators a place to refer those who's dicussion have reached a debate tone. Like on previous threads where the post have gotten off subject and a new thread is stared by the moderators. Why can't the same been done with debates????

Although the adminstrators do most of the work, and yes some one pays the bills (thank you :) by the way). Are you not one of the volenteers who moderate some of the threads? There are many here who do not have money to donate, therefore, we donate our free time. I don't mind volenteering my time to this worth while cause I wish I had more of it to give. All I want is for those "in power" to volenteer thier two "ears" along with an open mind to hear "my perspective". If I thought my opnion didn't matter that adminstrators didn't care then #1 I wounldn't be here, #2 this thread wouldn't have been started. I don't expect a debate form because I want one, I simply what to be heard and taken seriously. I understand why you do not want one, I just can't abide by the inclination that the "powers that be" don't care how those of us who participate on this site feel about subjects like the debate sub-forum!! :eek:

. :confused: Isn't the desire to be heard why we are all here. We may not always agree or even understand the responses we get to our post but isn't it the responses that keep us coming back!!!!

Hi all,

Not to worry, I believe the "powers that be" are seriously considering the debate sub-forum and do appreciate input from all members here at the forum. Maybe that's why it's taking so long...it is an evaluation of do we really need a debate forum? Does a debate forum enhance what we are trying to accomplish with the ADDforums? How would/should such a sub-forum be set up and managed?

Being ADHD and spending years learning howing to cope and control my impulsiveness I can only say that I appreciate the effort it takes to evaluate this suggestion. Please have patience...

Kim

Not to worry, I believe the "powers that be" are seriously considering the debate sub-forum and do appreciate input from all members here at the forum.?


Serious consideration is all I personally ask!!! Although I understand patience is not an ADD virtue I don't mind waiting as I have haven't had a place for debate in 41 years I can wait a while. I would rather have to wait upon some thing that is going to be well thought out than to be immedialy given what I wanted half heartedly


Does a debate forum enhance what we are trying to accomplish with the ADDforums?


I believe the main perpious of the forums is education and support to those of us who's lives are affected by ADD/ADHD.
I understand many who come here the diagnosis is new to them, they have questions galore and their needs are going to be a lot different than mine. I do try to help/give insite when I am able as I have been diagnosed for eleven years. I do enjoy the relationship I have developed with some of the people I have come into contact with and I get a good feeling when I am able to help others understand some thing or can decrease the feeling of being "the only odd ball" who mis-places thier car keys in the frig . Please do not allow my next statement undermine this.

How it would enhace the forums??? I believe debates would fill a void for people like me. I have long scense come to terms with my diagnosis and would greatly benifit from some thing more than mere information.To be able to have a place to meet people like myself people in need of stimulatation, challenges of a different quest. I yearn for Intectual stimuli, from those who are as passinate about there beliefs as I am. I can quantim leap from point to point and have actually met up with some around here that understand quantum leaps of thought.

I am what could be called a "renaguade ADHDer. I have ADHD and live with partner who has more ADHD traits than I do. But he "aint got no ADD" but can have two wreck in one trip consisting of a 25 mile total round trip!! He is extreemly passionate but doesn't have clue one as to why I would be interested in discussing say "free will choices vs gentics & enviroment". To him things are as they are and discussing them doesn't change what we are.

Now don't tell Coral Redhead ;) but some of his post about his beliefs in genitic /enviroment vs free will have caused me to do some re-thinking about my own free will perspective. His ademante and well worded post done in an intectual, respectful manner have actually made those rusty wheels in my brain turn. In my relationship here in the "real world" I have absolutely no out let for this. My S.O. can't even understand some of the concepts never mind why we feel the need to discuss them. My S.O. is a workaholic who hyperfocus on work making money, my S.O. is a very black and white thinker who is still stuck on survival. Being able to corrospond to the threads in Genetics vs; free will has allowed me the oppertunity to grow by challenging my beliefs. I don't know it exercises my mind!!! :confused: It supports my ADHD need to be extreem and be mentally challenged by another who believe the extreem opposite. I don't feel so alone in my quest for understanding me on a deeper level/analizing life in gerenal, even though I understand things differently than some of the other posters to the thread!! To actually be able to talk to some one else who also analizes life stuff does some thing for me inside I can not find the right words to express except Ahhhhh!!!! :D I don't mind helping others but I believe that that abilty would be inhanced by having a place to debate with other ADHD folks who are extreemly passionate like me!!!! Dabate done properly enhances personal growth.




How would/should such a sub-forum be set up and managed?

Man I wish I had the answers to that but I do believe they should be done is such a way that freshly diagnosed people, those looking for support, yearning for answers, and the emotionaly vernable, don't "accidently" find them selves in the middle of this arena with out warning. When I first came here I was overwhelmed by the sheer magnatutide of the forums and often did not know exactly "where I was". I would hate to end up in a debate by merely being lost!!!! Without having this section clearly defined many newbie looking for answers would get the wrong impression if the first place thier random botton pushing landed them was snack dab in the middle of a heated discussion of weather of not ADDer should reproduce!!!! :eek:

I can understand the desire for a true debate forum here. I, like so many others enjoy an actual debate where different ideas and perceptions are bashed about to the point at which people begin to see other points of view. I also agree that sometimes in this forum I have seen debates take off that could scare some people who are new to ADD/ADHD diagnosis and are still overwhelmed with it all. I would hope that there would never be any hard feelings or hurt feelings stemming from any debate, since that it not the point of a debate. For that matter niether is an attack on any person. A debate is a place in which ideas and beliefs are stated and challenged. It is the challenging of my ideas that excites me and helps me to learn. The debates I have come across in here since joining have truly invigorated me and pushed me to look at myself differently. I can't answer any questions on how it could be done. Possibly it could be a "private" forum if we are worried about hurt feelings, so that only those who thrive on and seek a debate would go there. I understand if it not feasible, but I just had to state my opinion on this matter. I to have no one to really debate with since my husband is one of those who only thinks in one way and a debate with him is always one sided.

I have another question for those of you interested in a debate sub-forum, and that is, what limits do you see for the scope of topics to be discussed? Just ADD related? Wide-open? or something inbetween?

I ask this, in part, because I see a lot of healthy discussions (debates?) taking place here in the forums currently which leads me to wonder why exactly a separate debating section is wanted. For example:

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15293
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14314
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14534&page=1&pp=15
(okay, this one stirred up a lot of emotion, but look how it got back on track)
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7648&page=1&pp=15
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15182

These are just a few of what has caught my eye in the past couple of days. In fact, this thread itself, is a wonderful example of a debate, or am I mistaken?

Looking foward to hearing what you all have to say.

Kim

As I understand it, there's a 'no politics' rule in place concerning these forums. Would this be kept in place?

To be honest, I think it is a very wise measure. Given the contrast of political opinions present in the world today, and the strong convictions that many have, any kind of large scale political debate could well end up stiring up animosity between forum members, and tearing our little cohesive group apart.

TBH, I think the last page of the procreation thread highlights all the reasons why a discussion forum would be a bad thing.

I agree Minn, too much debating is going on the main forum. I am as guilty as any others:rolleyes: !

I also think a debate forum should not have posts going out on Google :)
Hi Viktoria,

Could you explain what you mean by your last sentence here?

Well isn't this an interesting topic

I think Ill go play somewhere else where its not going to be, quite as warm ......

Well isn't this an interesting topic

I think Ill go play somewhere else where its not going to be, quite as warm ......
But Garry, wouldn't you like to moderate it? :D :D :D

Hi Viktoria,

Could you explain what you mean by your last sentence here?
All posts on this forum are easily accessible by "google", the search engine. I don't think debate issues are necessary to be out on the www. Which is why I believe that the debate forum should be private.

That's just my opinion, but at least the entire world won't be reading our debates.

I just think people with ADD need to use their intellect. It is important to ADD'ers to utilize their intellect, so therefore I stand by the debate forum as being extremely worthwhile on this forum.

Just my opinion, Coral....nothing more, nothing less ;)

All posts on this forum are easily accessible by "google", the search engine. I don't think debate issues are necessary to be out on the www. Which is why I believe that the debate forum should be private.

That's just my opinion, but at least the entire world won't be reading our debates.

I just think people with ADD need to use their intellect. It is important to ADD'ers to utilize their intellect, so therefore I stand by the debate forum as being extremely worthwhile on this forum.

Just my opinion, Coral....nothing more, nothing less ;)
I almost forgot about this thread Vik. I agree with you here.

I would be very interested in a debate forum. I think it is incredibly stimulating. To debate in a forum is ideal for me due to my emtional reactions. If it is a face to face conversation, I get emtional and lose my train of thought or can think clearly at all.

In a sub-forum debate, I can read it, take a step back, collect myself, then interact. I love this forum for many reasons, but find on occasion, that ppl arent interacting with each other as much as they are just reacting. (if that makes sense)

Debating requires close interaction with others, IMH, and I personally look forward to cranking up the old "brain" and using it!!!

Thanks for reading!

I would be very interested in a debate forum. I think it is incredibly stimulating. To debate in a forum is ideal for me due to my emtional reactions. If it is a face to face conversation, I get emtional and lose my train of thought or can think clearly at all.

In a sub-forum debate, I can read it, take a step back, collect myself, then interact. I love this forum for many reasons, but find on occasion, that ppl arent interacting with each other as much as they are just reacting. (if that makes sense)

Debating requires close interaction with others, IMH, and I personally look forward to cranking up the old "brain" and using it!!!

Thanks for reading!
I agree Crazymama, and this subject is being brought up over and over again about the need for a debate forum.

One good point I find, is that if there were no need for debate forums, why are entire forums dedicated to such a thing. So many topics have been in the main forum of late, that in reality belong in a debate forum.

I am sad to see this subject go unadressed for such a length of time. You are correct in saying that interaction is close, and that means debating a point and practicing leaving emotions behind in regards to personal attacks.

Good debaters know when they have personally attacked, and apologize. ADD'ers can greatly benefit from debate. Some may gain skills of assertiveness rather than aggression, or perhaps learn assertiveness skills they did not previously have. Others may temper down, and learn a gentler approach.

I hope that Admin allow us this forum, if only for a trial period. Since this has been a long asked for sub-forum, we have seen two or three differing sub-forums go up exceedingly fast.
~Viktoria

this is just a guess, but, since the private forums are still not up and running, this may be part of the delay.

thanks for your continued patience.

w.

You are correct in saying that interaction is close, and that means debating a point and practicing leaving emotions behind in regards to personal attacks.

Good debaters know when they have personally attacked, and apologize. ADD'ers can greatly benefit from debate. Some may gain skills of assertiveness rather than aggression, or perhaps learn assertiveness skills they did not previously have. Others may temper down, and learn a gentler approach.

I hope that Admin allow us this forum, if only for a trial period.~Viktoria
Vikoria,

Excellent post. These are qualities I would very much like to learn. I often do react emtionally, and wish I didnt. Learning to assert myself rather than defend/attack is a much more pleasing quality and something I would also like to learn.

Maybe it would also teach me how to be more articulate, aware, and accepting of others opinions when they dont share the same POV.

Thank you for making such a concise delivery of reasons to allow such a forum. Very well said.

:D

...I believe the "powers that be" are seriously considering the debate sub-forum and do appreciate input from all members here at the forum. Maybe that's why it's taking so long...it is an evaluation of do we really need a debate forum? Does a debate forum enhance what we are trying to accomplish with the ADDforums? How would/should such a sub-forum be set up and managed?

Being ADHD and spending years learning howing to cope and control my impulsiveness I can only say that I appreciate the effort it takes to evaluate this suggestion. Please have patience...

We continue to look at this as a potentially viable area to be offered to ADD Forum members. Thank you for your continued interest and input!

I just think people with ADD need to use their intellect. It is important to ADD'ers to utilize their intellect, so therefore I stand by the debate forum as being extremely worthwhile on this forum.

I agree with this statement. I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard " Use your head for some thing besides growing hair." or this one " If you would only use your brain." My two cents is a good debate is a healthy exercise for the brain just like walking is a good exercise for the body.

In a sub-forum debate, I can read it, take a step back, collect myself, then interact. I love this forum for many reasons, but find on occasion, that ppl arent interacting with each other as much as they are just reacting. (if that makes sense)

Makes prefect sense to me. This would add reason number two for a debate forum is socialization. The forums as opposed to live chat or face to face discussion would indead inhance many people socilization skills. As stated by previous poster that some people would be able to learn to be more assertive while other may learn to be less aggressive when interating because the message board fromat allows each to think and respond at our own pace. The most important skill a well planned debate forum would teach would be personal boundaries vs. societies boundaries. One of my biggest challenges with my ADHD is boundaries. I am always too passive and let others violate my personal space then when I have had enough I roar back and not only re-claim my space I invade theirs!!!

I do not mind waiting as the more I think about all the issues this could challange the more I can see the need for taking the time to plan this out and have a few questions answered before it could be addressed. I mean things like Moredators will it have one?? What will the boundaries be??? What would be considered a violation??? How would a violator be handled by moderator, or by other particapiants?? Would thier be differnt debate levels, taboo topics??? Will this sub-forum be accessable to all members or will it need to be made privite like "adult relationships'??? I mean this site is accessable to minors, if minors were able to access the debate area then that would greatly limit what would be considered acceptable language/subjects!!!! I won't even touch the techinicail stuff involved!!!

I personaly would participate if a sub-forum were offered that would save me from having to scour the rest of the forums looking for controveral threads when I need to stretch my mental leggs!!!! If this is a non-option then I would be able to accept that also as I already have ran accross many threads that closely resemble a debates!!!!

i also agree this would be a useful and positive thing ... i would love to beable to voice my opinions with adders it could make for a fun LEARNing section

I do not mind waiting as the more I think about all the issues this could challange the more I can see the need for taking the time to plan this out and have a few questions answered before it could be addressed.

I hope you don't mind me chiming in here meadd and expressing my opinion on some to the very good questions you have raised.

I mean things like Moredators will it have one??
I don't think the forum would need a moderator, but I do think the option to report a post that steps over the line should remain.


What will the boundaries be??? What would be considered a violation???

Name calling. Cursing at someone. Blatantly wishing them ill. Pointedly insulting their morals or their intelligence.

How would a violator be handled by moderator, or by other particapiants??
I think the usual social pressures that we experience in our daily lives would apply to a sub debate forum as well. When someone is behaving like a donkey's rear, others will probably politely point that out.

Would thier be differnt debate levels, taboo topics???
I don't think any topic should be taboo.

Will this sub-forum be accessable to all members or will it need to be made privite like "adult relationships'??? I mean this site is accessable to minors, if minors were able to access the debate area then that would greatly limit what would be considered acceptable language/subjects!!!!
My personal opinion is that it was discussing a wide variety of subjects with my daughter that had made our relationship a good one. Now that she is an adult, we still discuss everything from current events to the latest scientific developments to women's issues. I think she would probably say that this openness helped her develop critical thinking skills.

However, some parents see some subjects as taboo. I suppose it would be easy to keep out anyone who registered as 14, but the reality is, nothing could be done about the 14 year old pretending to be 21.

I hope you don't mind me chiming in here meadd and expressing my opinion on some to the very good questions you have raised.

Hey this site wounldn't be as fun if you didn't chime in Coral. I enjoy your post. You have good answers to the questions I raised!!!! Hey if you could stop 14 years olds from posing as 21 year olds I know some adult sites that would pay you money!!!! Some actually insist on members using a credit card to pay for memberships to try and deture this but I have seen credit card offers come in the mail for household pets!!!!!

I have always believed in open discussion with my children as well. I was reared that if a child is old enough to ask the question they are old enough for the honest truth. I also know not all perents feel the same and respect their rights as I want my rights as a parent respected!!!!

:soapbox:
I like the idea of a debate forum. It would make this site all inclusive. People can come here for the support and a chance to socialize with those struggling with the same issues, but also can hear the other side of the story.

Those who are skeptics can hear opposing argument. If they don't get it here, they will get it elsewhere, which may not include the rebuttals. This is a chance to lay it all on the table.

Having it available on google searches (and not kept private) will give a chance for all to participate provided they play by forum rules. If I were trying to weigh the use of ritalin for my son and looked it up on google, it would be nice to have the pros and cons found on one site with the defense from people who have "been there, done that" and the cons from those genuinely concerned, probably because they've been there, too.

I think this sub-forum should be run like any other section. If household tips and tricks has a moderator, then certainly a debate forum should have a mediator/moderator, mostly to restore peace and keep things on track. The usual rules and guidelines should apply.

I think the usual taboo subjects should still be in effect. I'm under the impression that this isn't about politics and religion, it's about ADD, facts, myths, and the ever-continuing argument of how to treat it. It is a place to move intense discussions from the main forums (which sometimes becomes an off-shoot of a thread) so that if the thread is started seeking support it can continue in that spirit.

Also, if you're not looking for a debate it would be a breath of fresh air to simply continue on in the forums looking for the information and support needed rather than trying to wade through the more heavy discussions.

It would keep the purpose and goals of this forum (support, advocacy) at the core and still provide information needed to make educated choices on topics of diverse oppinions.

I think this sub-forum should be run like any other section. If household tips and tricks has a moderator, then certainly a debate forum should have a mediator/moderator, mostly to restore peace and keep things on track. The usual rules and guidelines should apply.


Okay then how would this differ from all the other threads/sub-forums if every thing was the same??? Sorry my "ADHD" made me do it!!! ;) I HAD to ask. I mean a lot of the threads end up debates simply due to the difference of opnion.

I think the usual taboo subjects should still be in effect. I'm under the impression that this isn't about politics and religion, it's about ADD, facts, myths, and the ever-continuing argument of how to treat it.

How about SEX, can we debate about sex???? I know of at least one ADHDer who has "done it"!!! :D Religion and politics are taboo because they aren't related to ADD/ADHD or the treatment thereof, How would you know that??? Almost as many people with ADD/ADHD are involved with religion as they are sex, for some of us ADHD effects both. Politics well I could say my ADD effects that only if we are discussing attention spans. I thought these subjects had a "special area" of there own because of extreeme emotions attached to these subjects. The discussion of these two subjects was so vast that too many threads were being "over run" with these subjects! I thought that was a logical approach as I don't think any subject is taboo to these folks but I come here to read about more than opnions on these subjects.

No offense intended but for me I my beliefs are as much a part of me as my ADHD. How ever my ADHD may very well effects my beliefs (which will not be discussed here per policy!!)

Now to address one final point is we already discuss subject above and beyond our common diagnosis. The thread started as a pole "Should ADD people reproduce (can't spell procreate)??? That thread gave birth to a discussion about gentics vs. free will. How???? Who knows; this is after all a site was designed for people who have problems staying on topic. People with ADD. The directions threads can take is one of the most entertaining aspects of this site in my humble opnion!!!! :soapbox:

We continue to look at this as a potentially viable area to be offered to ADD Forum members. Thank you for your continued interest and input!
You're most welcome Andrew. It's so nice to see that you appreciate how we all feel. That's what I love about this forum. Leaders that really listen. :) :)

~Viktoria

Okay then how would this differ from all the other threads/sub-forums if every thing was the same??? Sorry my "ADHD" made me do it!!! ;) I HAD to ask. I mean a lot of the threads end up debates simply due to the difference of opnion.

The reason I think it should have a moderator, as I already stated, was to keep the peace. It can get ugly. We can all agree that ADDers can be impulsive. I do not trust for one moment that every single person visiting is going to see "debate forum, passionately discuss your oppinions here" and suddenly go "ok, I'll be completely mature about this and not flame or cuss someone out" when some (not all) can't stick to that in any other forum.


How about SEX, can we debate about sex???? I know of at least one ADHDer who has "done it"!!! :D

I do not wish to discuss my sex life in a debate forum and how it effects my ADD. I put it in the private forums. Call me prudish. Maybe I do not understand what there is to debate about sex and ADD. It sounds like a subject that needs support and advice, not debate. "Are ADDers risque? Hm. Interesting. Is that what you mean?

Religion and politics are taboo because they aren't related to ADD/ADHD or the treatment thereof, How would you know that??? Almost as many people with ADD/ADHD are involved with religion as they are sex, for some of us ADHD effects both.

That is exactly what the meditation/spirituality forum is for. To discuss matters of faith and how they help or relate to our ADD. My choice of faith is not up for debate.

Politics well I could say my ADD effects that only if we are discussing attention spans. I thought these subjects had a "special area" of there own because of extreeme emotions attached to these subjects. The discussion of these two subjects was so vast that too many threads were being "over run" with these subjects! I thought that was a logical approach as I don't think any subject is taboo to these folks but I come here to read about more than opnions on these subjects.

My politics are my business. ADD does not effect my stance on abortion, gay marriage, or the war in Iraq. That is my own sense of right vs. wrong. I am not pro gay marriage because I'm impulsive or not paying attention, I have looked at both sides of the issue and have made an educated choice. However, politics that includes ADD treatment such as right wing vs. left wing (and everything in between) stance on medical treatments, education, etc. is up for debate and concern. For example, I have heard that this administration is opposed to parents seeking alternative treatments (i.e. natural therapies) for their children with special needs/ LDs to the point that they are interfering by making a child take meds. Now that's up for debate. Is this what you are referring to as far as discussion about politics?

No offense intended but for me my beliefs are as much a part of me as my ADHD.

No offense taken. That's what this thread is for.

How ever my ADHD may very well effects my beliefs (which will not be discussed here per policy!!)

What is the debate? Does ADD interfere with making decisions on religion and politics? I don't think Adderall, etc is going to turn you into a republican, democrat, Jehovah Witness or Mormon. I do not wish to debate with you on such a personal and subjective decision. If you are confused and feel upset about the treatment you are receiving from your religious institution then that is what the spirituality section is for. It's not there to tell you that all Catholics are idiots or something similar. In that case you need support not a debate. (*I do not think Catholics are idiots, just an example.) The heated scientology thread was, if I was understanding it correctly, their stance on psychiatrists. I'd say that effects my ADD treatment. But if your scientologist mother-in-law is giving you a hard time, do you need support? It can certainly start in a support section and continue on in the debate section...do they have any support for their anti-ADD and anti-psychiatry oppinions? Is this what you mean about religion being in the debate forum?

Now to address one final point is we already discuss subject above and beyond our common diagnosis. The thread started as a pole "Should ADD people reproduce (can't spell procreate)??? Too late! :) That thread gave birth to a discussion about gentics vs. free will. How???? Who knows; this is after all a site was designed for people who have problems staying on topic. People with ADD. The directions threads can take is one of the most entertaining aspects of this site in my humble opnion!!!! :soapbox:
What an excellent example of something that belongs in the debate forum. Genetics vs. free will has a lot to do with ADD and how it effects us. I haven't been involved with that thread but it sounds interesting. I highly doubt though that it is turning into a debate between Christians about predestination vs. free will, is it? I don't want to go there.

I'm certainly open to suggestion. I don't have the attention span for reading all 4(?) pages. I'm not the Thought Police. I just want to make a distinction of what is up for debate and what is in need for support. Does that make sense? That is why I think it should have a moderator. To say "this person needs some support and comfort" and put it there, and "this has turned a corner and is a debate". And not every "debate" in the support section needs to be moved. Some discussions can be moved and see how they go.

Again, I'm open to suggestion and I hope I'm understanding you correctly.

I don't think discussions in the main forums should be moved to a debate forum at all. I think a debate forum should have selected topics that would be discussed. If a discussion turns nasty in the main forums I think it should be dealt with as we have always dealt with them. The topics can always be added to the list of debate topics in the sub-forum, but to deprive the main forums of healthy discussions would be a great loss.

By closing or editing a thread in the main forums that has become "hot" it would give everyone a chance to cool down and collect their thoughts and approach it anew in the debate sub-forum.

My opinion, mind you.

Kim

Here's the latest everyone...we are in the process of setting up a debate sub-forum and just hammering out the final details!

Opening this sub-forum is an attempt to meet the growing needs of our membership, but we feel it is important to realize that it is inherently difficult for some people with ADHD (some with other co-morbids) to deal with conflict, organization of thoughts, and thinking before speaking (writing). Therefore, we have decided this will be a moderated forum and need a bit of time to bring the moderators on board and familiarized with their duties.

More information will be forthcoming as we get it settled and we want to thank you for your understanding and patience! Since this is a whole new realm for us here at the forums, it will be a step-by-step process that we hope will be useful, challenging, and fun for all who chose to participate.

In the meantime, I would be interested in hearing from all of you suggestions for debate topics.

Here is a quote i agree with.

''Change means movement. Movement means friction. Only in the frictionless vacuum of a nonexistent abstract world can movement or change occur without that abrasive friction of conflict.''

I just hope in this next sub-forums that there will be more tolerance with the conflict that may occurs. I think as adults on this forum we can step back at one point and we resolve the matters by ourselves.

I would not accept any name calling and swearing at each other...if that is stricly moderated, i think we can have a great fun debate forums, were we feel we can talk more freely. :)

Here's the latest everyone...we are in the process of setting up a debate sub-forum and just hammering out the final details!

Opening this sub-forum is an attempt to meet the growing needs of our membership, but we feel it is important to realize that it is inherently difficult for some people with ADHD (some with other co-morbids) to deal with conflict, organization of thoughts, and thinking before speaking (writing). Therefore, we have decided this will be a moderated forum and need a bit of time to bring the moderators on board and familiarized with their duties.

More information will be forthcoming as we get it settled and we want to thank you for your understanding and patience! Since this is a whole new realm for us here at the forums, it will be a step-by-step process that we hope will be useful, challenging, and fun for all who chose to participate.

In the meantime, I would be interested in hearing from all of you suggestions for debate topics.
I think this is terrific news, Kima, and would like to take this opportunity to thank Admin for this decision.

Topics? Let's see *thinking*:confused:

The case of Terry Schiavo
Euthanasia
Death Penalty
Stem Cell Research
Jung Versus Freud
Cloning

That's just a few :)
~Viktoria

Here is a quote i agree with.

''Change means movement. Movement means friction. Only in the frictionless vacuum of a nonexistent abstract world can movement or change occur without that abrasive friction of conflict.''

I just hope in this next sub-forums that there will be more tolerance with the conflict that may occurs. I think as adults on this forum we can step back at one point and we resolve the matters by ourselves.

I would not accept any name calling and swearing at each other...if that is stricly moderated, i think we can have a great fun debate forums, were we feel we can talk more freely. :)







Digitl, I think if more people realized that deabte is an artform then none of the above would be a problem. Some of us have participated in debate forums for years, and there is much more to be gained than lost.

Do things get "heated"? Yes, at times. Name-calling? A true debater would not stoop to such ploys, for it goes against the "art" of debate and would demean him/her as a debater. :)

IMHO, a moderator is necessary in a caretaker role, but I would never use the term "strict moderation". That defeats the purpose of effective debate because the moderator will naturally be biased by the mere act of being human. Now we have a debate here, Dig:D. How can a moderator using "strict moderation" be unbiased?

To stop name calling, "strict moderation" in not required. That would be similar to saying "strict moderation" is required in chit chat as people can cross boundaries so easily; but we all know that is simply unecessary, and would stifle natural ease.:eyebrow:
~Viktoria

One thing that I have seen in debate forums is a set time limit for discussion with a vote at the end from members and I am wondering what you all think about this?

Kim

One thing that I have seen in debate forums is a set time limit for discussion with a vote at the end from members and I am wondering what you all think about this?

Kim
I have seen this done, Kima, and I have also seen the same rule reversed. I think, and this is only my opinion;) , that this is where we need to take ADHD into account in a debate forum. We cannot all think inside a timeframe as linear thinkers do, so the idea of capping the subject doesn't seem so good to me.

The "normals" didn't handle that, and I doubt ADHD'ers would find it easier. Think of the thread "Should ADHD'ers be allowed to pro-create", or something close to that title. What if that thread was closed? Look at all the wonderful thoughts and feelings we have seen expressed, both for and against. If it had been voted and closed, we would have missed out on a great deal of good thinking.

Just my two cents :)
~Viktoria

while i agree in essence with Viktoria, a debate that goes on for *pages* is too hard to follow if the discussion is on page 10, and i'm posting for the first time. by the time i've waded through the "homework" i've lost interest.

time is arbitrary, so dividing it by blocks of time doesn't fit with our ADDer natures. but, what about closing the debate after a thread has been inactive for "x" weeks? the last post containing "how to re-open this discussion" type info. from the moderator. so, if someone comes along after that and is inspired to respond, s/he could appeal to the moderator(s) and the moderator(s) could start a new thread.

so, we'd have ""Should ADHD'ers be allowed to pro-create -- Debate 1" and ""Should ADHD'ers be allowed to pro-create -- Debate 2"

another question -- why would we vote at all???

are we debating for the sake of debating (i.e. personal gratification and edification) or are we trying to sway the most people to one side (i.e. are we trying to win)?

personally, i hate the whole win-lose mindset. it's an old hang-up of a born loser :rolleyes: -- but seriously, when i hear "winning doesn't matter" the response is all too often, "that's only true if you are losing."

and in the end -- it doesn't matter if 100 people vote pro and 1 person votes against ... if the ultimate goal is to stretch our dura mater.

i'm a person though who uses writing as a way to dig deeper into a line of thought, so, for me "winning" makes no difference ... making me *think* though, that is way cool.

would debate subjuects be limited to ADD-matters ? i'd so no, too limiting

would threads be opened only by moderators -- with members voting in a poll as to what they'd like to debate about ? this might be a nice way to keep the forum more manageable so there'd be a need for fewer moderators. -- i'd say the fewer mods the better so consistency is maintained and ease of communication is ummm... easy (<< *not* the word i'm looking for, oh well :rolleyes: )

i'm not editing -- so these are raw thoughts!!! i'll cook them later :)

peace out,

w.

Wheezie, I also agree with you, and happen to think you have brought up some valid points.

Wheezie]while i agree in essence with Viktoria, a debate that goes on for *pages* is too hard to follow if the discussion is on page 10, and i'm posting for the first time. by the time i've waded through the "homework" i've lost interest.

Me too. Usually.

time is arbitrary, so dividing it by blocks of time doesn't fit with our ADDer natures. but, what about closing the debate after a thread has been inactive for "x" weeks? the last post containing "how to re-open this discussion" type info. from the moderator. so, if someone comes along after that and is inspired to respond, s/he could appeal to the moderator(s) and the moderator(s) could start a new thread.

I think this idea is brilliant.

so, we'd have ""Should ADHD'ers be allowed to pro-create -- Debate 1" and ""Should ADHD'ers be allowed to pro-create -- Debate 2"

Yes, and I think the "original" poster's post should be at the beginning of the Debate "2".

another question -- why would we vote at all???

Not in my opinion, because for most issues, there is no right or wrong answer.

are we debating for the sake of debating (i.e. personal gratification and edification) or are we trying to sway the most people to one side (i.e. are we trying to win)?

Debate for the sake of debate is ludicrous. Debate for intellectual stimulation is crucial to those who so wish to debate.

personally, i hate the whole win-lose mindset. it's an old hang-up of a born loser :rolleyes: -- but seriously, when i hear "winning doesn't matter" the response is all too often, "that's only true if you are losing."

Agree!

and in the end -- it doesn't matter if 100 people vote pro and 1 person votes against ... if the ultimate goal is to stretch our dura mater.

Agree!

i'm a person though who uses writing as a way to dig deeper into a line of thought, so, for me "winning" makes no difference ... making me *think* though, that is way cool.

And this Wheezie is where I really aprreciate your line of thought. I also like to be stimulated via the grey matter. Winning is what? Nothing.

would debate subjuects be limited to ADD-matters ? i'd so no, too limiting

would threads be opened only by moderators -- with members voting in a poll as to what they'd like to debate about ? this might be a nice way to keep the forum more manageable so there'd be a need for fewer moderators. -- i'd say the fewer mods the better so consistency is maintained and ease of communication is ummm... easy (<< *not* the word i'm looking for, oh well :rolleyes: )

This is where we are about to part company a tiny bit, my friend......but only for the duration of this post.:cool: I genuinely feel that this would give the moderator too much power and devalue the posters who are there to debate, and in my opinion, it would feel rather contrived.

For me, this idea of having mods open up threads is a little like having "mods only" open up threads in chit chat. ;) For some of us "old time" debaters, debate "is" our chit chat.

Where, on this entire forum, do "mods only" open threads? It could even be seen as discrimination against a poster's common sense, and for myself, I would not want to think a poster felt he/she was less intelligent than a mderator, and incapable of opening a thread with their own IQ.

i'm not editing -- so these are raw thoughts!!! i'll cook them later :)

I like your raw thoughts. :)

peace out,

Same to you...

w.

~Viktoria

Wheezie, I also agree with you, and happen to think you have brought up some valid points.

Wheezie]while i agree in essence with Viktoria, a debate that goes on for *pages* is too hard to follow if the discussion is on page 10, and i'm posting for the first time. by the time i've waded through the "homework" i've lost interest.

Me too. Usually.

The same applies to me, although there might be value in being able to get a summary of sorts, at the end of a page in long running debate threads of high relavence/interest.


time is arbitrary, so dividing it by blocks of time doesn't fit with our ADDer natures. but, what about closing the debate after a thread has been inactive for "x" weeks? the last post containing "how to re-open this discussion" type info. from the moderator. so, if someone comes along after that and is inspired to respond, s/he could appeal to the moderator(s) and the moderator(s) could start a new thread.

I think this idea is brilliant.

So do I, the concept of being able to re-open a thread in the event of new posters/new material of relevance, is an excellent one

so, we'd have ""Should ADHD'ers be allowed to pro-create -- Debate 1" and ""Should ADHD'ers be allowed to pro-create -- Debate 2"

Yes, and I think the "original" poster's post should be at the beginning of the Debate "2".

Agreed, this might also be supplimented by a brief synopsis of the nature of the pre-ceeding debate.

another question -- why would we vote at all???

Not in my opinion, because for most issues, there is no right or wrong answer.

are we debating for the sake of debating (i.e. personal gratification and edification) or are we trying to sway the most people to one side (i.e. are we trying to win)?

Debate for the sake of debate is ludicrous. Debate for intellectual stimulation is crucial to those who so wish to debate.

personally, i hate the whole win-lose mindset. it's an old hang-up of a born loser :rolleyes: -- but seriously, when i hear "winning doesn't matter" the response is all too often, "that's only true if you are losing."

Agree!

and in the end -- it doesn't matter if 100 people vote pro and 1 person votes against ... if the ultimate goal is to stretch our dura mater.

Agree!

i'm a person though who uses writing as a way to dig deeper into a line of thought, so, for me "winning" makes no difference ... making me *think* though, that is way cool.

And this Wheezie is where I really aprreciate your line of thought. I also like to be stimulated via the grey matter. Winning is what? Nothing. The nature of debate is to provide logical and rational thought on issues examining them from different perspectives. Winning or loosing is often inapropriate. Its the getting there that is enjoyable.


would debate subjuects be limited to ADD-matters ? i'd so no, too limiting

would threads be opened only by moderators -- with members voting in a poll as to what they'd like to debate about ? this might be a nice way to keep the forum more manageable so there'd be a need for fewer moderators. -- i'd say the fewer mods the better so consistency is maintained and ease of communication is ummm... easy (<< *not* the word i'm looking for, oh well :rolleyes: )

This is where we are about to part company a tiny bit, my friend......but only for the duration of this post.:cool: I genuinely feel that this would give the moderator too much power and devalue the posters who are there to debate, and in my opinion, it would feel rather contrived.

For me, this idea of having mods open up threads is a little like having "mods only" open up threads in chit chat. ;) For some of us "old time" debaters, debate "is" our chit chat.

Where, on this entire forum, do "mods only" open threads? It could even be seen as discrimination against a poster's common sense, and for myself, I would not want to think a poster felt he/she was less intelligent than a mderator, and incapable of opening a thread with their own IQ.

This time I'm very definately in agreement with Viktoria. Also, it appears to me that the type of individual likely to frequent and enjoy the debate forum, is exactely the type of person who is likely to resent there being any appearance of an elitist faction that direct the allowable topics of debate.

i'm not editing -- so these are raw thoughts!!! i'll cook them later :)

I like your raw thoughts. :)
peace out,
Same to you...
w.
~ViktoriaLooks like we are beginning debating already

All my love and kisses to Viktoria :p
Andrei

.....what about closing the debate after a thread has been inactive for "x" weeks? the last post containing "how to re-open this discussion" type info. from the moderator. so, if someone comes along after that and is inspired to respond, s/he could appeal to the moderator(s) and the moderator(s) could start a new thread.

so, we'd have ""Should ADHD'ers be allowed to pro-create -- Debate 1" and ""Should ADHD'ers be allowed to pro-create -- Debate 2" Great idea...I think we'll go with this.


another question -- why would we vote at all???
It was just something I had seen in other debate forums and wanted your input. I'm not for or against it since I am not an experienced debator.


are we debating for the sake of debating (i.e. personal gratification and edification) or are we trying to sway the most people to one side (i.e. are we trying to win)? I don't see it as voting for winners and losers. I think debate, in essence, is trying to sway people one way or another, but the vote isn't for who "won" but for who best represented their side. Who had the best supporting information, references, presentation skills, etc. This could be helpful for those looking to improve their debating skills.

It would be nice to have some way of giving "feedback" for those entering into this realm for the first time. Maybe a rating system or something. Any ideas would be welcome!


would debate subjuects be limited to ADD-matters ? i'd so no, too limiting A resounding "no it's not" which is why I am looking for people to write a list of subjects/topics they like to see in the debate forum.


would threads be opened only by moderators -- with members voting in a poll as to what they'd like to debate about ? this might be a nice way to keep the forum more manageable so there'd be a need for fewer moderators. -- i'd say the fewer mods the better so consistency is maintained and ease of communication is ummm... easy (<< *not* the word i'm looking for, oh well :rolleyes: ) I hope I don't disappoint too many here, but initally it will be started with a set number of threads to get going. It isn't that we want too much power, but that this is new and different and we want to build it up right. We are truly trying to meet your needs, but want to establish a firm, stable base from which to build on.

Nothing is set in concrete and I am certainly willing to be flexible, but would like a good running start. I hope you understand and will support me and the administration on this for time being. (I'm not opposed to changing my mind on this once the start up is over and if the moderators of the forum and other administrators agree)


i'm not editing -- so these are raw thoughts!!! i'll cook them later :)
Great ingredients....can hardly wait for dinner!:D Kim

It would be nice to have some way of giving "feedback" for those entering into this realm for the first time. Maybe a rating system or something. Any ideas would be welcome!

... it would be nice to have a feedback system that wouldn't take away from the debate itself .... too bad i don't have any brilliant ideas about that.... ;) i wonder if we could get the reputation button back in for just that portion of the forum? then we'd be able to enable feedback if our egos could handle it, and, we'd have anonymity to protect us if we want to throw eggs at our opponent .... hmmm, that idea needs some work... :D

are there recognised "rules of debate"? or do the guidelines we have in place for the rest of the forum suffice???

maybe we could appeal to those more experienced among us ("old timers" if you well, and since you already have, vik ... ;) ) to help us out on a set of guidelines specifically for the debate forum if that's even necessary???

what's the best way to handle a poster who has veered off-topic? or ducked the question?

when the posts get too long, how do you know which point to address?

does one address all points raised?

or is the point to keep the discussion focused on one debatable item at a time???

and if so, how do you keep the discussion focused?

or does this type of thing take care of itself???

maybe an alarm for my computer that would ring if i started to get off-topic while typing would help.... one for my brain would be nice too! :D

i really have no idea how this sort of thing is managed ... or not managed as the case may be. (Really! :p )

I hope I don't disappoint too many here, but initally it will be started with a set number of threads to get going. It isn't that we want too much power, but that this is new and different and we want to build it up right. We are truly trying to meet your needs, but want to establish a firm, stable base from which to build on.

what do you need from us in order to get this going??? should we submit "thread starters" to you? or are you thinking of listing "topic of debate" in the title and "rules of debate" in the body of that title. then away we go??? something along those lines?

i understand the necessity of starting out slow, it's a way to control the anticipated chaos. especially in light of the fact that so few of us have had much experience on a debate board. however, i don’t anticipate any chaos, only mass confusion ;)

the only debate board i was ever on saw the same arguments re-hashed ad nausea, so, i quickly lost interest. it will be more interesting to have a forum where topics follow the interests of those posting.

i can't wait to start! :D

Great ingredients....can hardly wait for dinner!:D Kim

why can't i get a picture of a cauldron over an open fire being tended by the three wild-haired witches from MacBeth --- and upon peering into the cauldron, brains are floating about, simmering?? :eek:

“Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.”

first witch,

wheezie ;)

Where, on this entire forum, do "mods only" open threads? It could even be seen as discrimination against a poster's common sense, and for myself, I would not want to think a poster felt he/she was less intelligent than a mderator, and incapable of opening a thread with their own IQ.

i can definately see your point vik and i like the phrase "discrimination against a poster's common sense!" :D -- if only common sense were a commonly held characteristic, there would be no reason to moderate!

This time I'm very definately in agreement with Viktoria. Also, it appears to me that the type of individual likely to frequent and enjoy the debate forum, is exactely the type of person who is likely to resent there being any appearance of an elitist faction that direct the allowable topics of debate.

well, when you put it that way, i agree with vik too!!! :D

i don't want you to think i'm taking this point lightly. it is a valid concern and i appreciate you raising it. however, the *intent* is "to establish a firm, stable base from which to build on."

i don't see anyone wanting to limit the topics of debate.

we do, however, want to start out slow and rein in any poster's who see a debate forum as "open season on the l.a. freeway."

:soapbox: we may be taking an overly cautious approach, however, this is new territory and we're learning as we go. it's much easier to let the reins out a bit once order has been established than it is to try to establish order in an environment that's out-of-control. that's the first lesson i learned as a substitute teacher!!! :soapbox:

did i mention that i can't wait to get started!!! i'm chomping at the bit, trying to be patient, but wishing we could just have at it!!!

what fun,

w.

... it would be nice to have a feedback system that wouldn't take away from the debate itself .... too bad i don't have any brilliant ideas about that.... ;) i wonder if we could get the reputation button back in for just that portion of the forum? then we'd be able to enable feedback if our egos could handle it, and, we'd have anonymity to protect us if we want to throw eggs at our opponent .... hmmm, that idea needs some work... :D I will check on the reputation buttons and, in the meantime, maybe we'll come up with some other suggestions (hint, hint...any ideas anyone?):D

are there recognised "rules of debate"? or do the guidelines we have in place for the rest of the forum suffice???

maybe we could appeal to those more experienced among us ("old timers" if you well, and since you already have, vik ... ;) ) to help us out on a set of guidelines specifically for the debate forum if that's even necessary??? I have a separate set of guidelines in place within the forum. I have also written a "contract" that I would like read before we issue passwords. Both cover issues of etiquette, form, responsibility, etc. Basically, I don't want anyone coming back saying "but I didn't know I wasn't suppose to...." Rules are a pain in the behind, I know, but the clearer the definition the less likely to have chaos, in my experience.

Just so you know, we are still waiting to hear back from potential moderators. Once they are on board we'll be up and running!

what's the best way to handle a poster who has veered off-topic? or ducked the question?

when the posts get too long, how do you know which point to address?

does one address all points raised?

or is the point to keep the discussion focused on one debatable item at a time???

and if so, how do you keep the discussion focused?

or does this type of thing take care of itself???
Viktoria and Andrei....it would be great if you would address some of these questions since you are the "experienced" debators here. Anyone else can add their two cents, too, if they have suggestions, though.

what do you need from us in order to get this going??? should we submit "thread starters" to you? or are you thinking of listing "topic of debate" in the title and "rules of debate" in the body of that title. then away we go??? something along those lines? Right now I'm collecting topics. Viktoria listed some. Feel free to add to her list. I won't choose myself, but will go with a concensus from those wanting to participate. How does that sound?

i understand the necessity of starting out slow, it's a way to control the anticipated chaos. especially in light of the fact that so few of us have had much experience on a debate board. however, i don’t anticipate any chaos, only mass confusion ;) Mass confusion can be fun...:p

the only debate board i was ever on saw the same arguments re-hashed ad nausea, so, i quickly lost interest. it will be more interesting to have a forum where topics follow the interests of those posting.

i can't wait to start! :D chomp, chomp...me either, but I just keep chanting "good things come to those who wait" in the meantime!:D

why can't i get a picture of a cauldron over an open fire being tended by the three wild-haired witches from MacBeth --- and upon peering into the cauldron, brains are floating about, simmering?? :eek:

“Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.”

first witch,

wheezie ;) maybe Viktoria can come up with something? or some other wildly creative member!!!! :cool:

second witch,

Kim

I have a separate set of guidelines in place within the forum. I have also written a "contract" that I would like read before we issue passwords. Both cover issues of etiquette, form, responsibility, etc. Basically, I don't want anyone coming back saying "but I didn't know I wasn't suppose to...." Rules are a pain in the behind, I know, but the clearer the definition the less likely to have chaos, in my experience.


There are standard sets of "rules of debate" that may be posted. These would need to be agreed to, prior to a poster gaining entry to the debate forum . These rules spell out debating ettiquite and can be found in the "guidelines" on virtually all debating forums.

After that, its virtually self policing with little or no moderation needed. The onus is on a poster to answer all points posed or to simply state "too much"

what's the best way to handle a poster who has veered off-topic? or ducked the question?

Say to them, "you're going off topic" or "you havent answered my question"

when the posts get too long, how do you know which point to address?

does one address all points raised?

or is the point to keep the discussion focused on one debatable item at a time???

Answer which points are, in your opinion, the most relevant and simply tell the other poster "too much" please keep to 1,2,3,4,5 or however many points you feel like debating.


and if so, how do you keep the discussion focused?
or does this type of thing take care of itself???

It tends to take care of itself. Here is an example.

I might state to you, "you're going off topic" I'm only going to address your points that are "on topic" and as I dont have 10 hours and the inclination to answer your 30 points Im only going to answer the 5 points that in my opinion, are most relevant to this discussion.

OK, for the sake of this post, I shall treat it as I would in a debate forum.;)

Originally Posted by Wheezie
... it would be nice to have a feedback system that wouldn't take away from the debate itself .... too bad i don't have any brilliant ideas about that.... ;) i wonder if we could get the reputation button back in for just that portion of the forum? then we'd be able to enable feedback if our egos could handle it, and, we'd have anonymity to protect us if we want to throw eggs at our opponent .... hmmm, that idea needs some work...

I will check on the reputation buttons and, in the meantime, maybe we'll come up with some other suggestions (hint, hint...any ideas anyone?)

I do not feel that brining back a reputation system/rating system would benefit anyone in the least. If it is to have an ego fed, it is for the wrong reason. If it is to anonymously throw eggs, I would view that as a cowardly act. It is not a good reason to have reputation system back in place. If you wish the reputation system back in place, it would be rather pleasant to see a good reason, which would benefit all, be put forward on the table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheezie
are there recognised "rules of debate"? or do the guidelines we have in place for the rest of the forum suffice???

maybe we could appeal to those more experienced among us ("old timers" if you well, and since you already have, vik ... ;) ) to help us out on a set of guidelines specifically for the debate forum if that's even necessary???

I have a separate set of guidelines in place within the forum. I have also written a "contract" that I would like read before we issue passwords. Both cover issues of etiquette, form, responsibility, etc. Basically, I don't want anyone coming back saying "but I didn't know I wasn't suppose to...." Rules are a pain in the behind, I know, but the clearer the definition the less likely to have chaos, in my experience.

Here is a clear definition of rules that you would encounter on a debate forum-:




Do not make a nuisance of yourself, you will be warned if you require too much of the moderators time.

Do not accuse the admin of bias. I do not have the time to dispute it. You will be warned.

You will be warned for repeatedly posting the same post.
You will be warned for spam.

On the other hand the debating process can get rough, we try and keep personal attacks out of this debate but it does happen, if you are sensitive to criticisms, ridicule or name calling, do not post here. By posting here you are accepting these risk and agree not to hold this site or its administrators responsible.

If you break any of the above rules you can be removed from this part of the forum without notice.

Please remember that we do not actively monitor the contents of and are not responsible for any messages posted.

We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message.

Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email.

We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. This is a manual process, however, so please realize that we may not be able to remove or edit particular messages immediately.


Just so you know, we are still waiting to hear back from potential moderators. Once they are on board we'll be up and running!

I would have hoped that your moderators to be would be the ones putting in the input here and now, right at this moment. If they aren't, then where is their capacity to contribute fairly and intellectually being displayed? Where are their ideas? Imagination? I fail to see anyone except Wheezie displaying a hint of any of this.

Points in blue are made by me [Viktoria]

Originally Posted by Wheezie
what's the best way to handle a poster who has veered off-topic? or ducked the question?

State the post is off topic to the other poster.

when the posts get too long, how do you know which point to address?

You will know! If you don't, then only address posts you wish to. The choice is yours.

does one address all points raised?

Only if you want to.

or is the point to keep the discussion focused on one debatable item at a time???

It can, and will vary.

and if so, how do you keep the discussion focused?

No one needs to control free speech so much. Debate is about freedom of speech in a civil manner.

or does this type of thing take care of itself???

Yes! We are doing it now.

Viktoria and Andrei....it would be great if you would address some of these questions since you are the "experienced" debators here. Anyone else can add their two cents, too, if they have suggestions, though.

It would be most pleasant to see them doing so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheezie
what do you need from us in order to get this going??? should we submit "thread starters" to you? or are you thinking of listing "topic of debate" in the title and "rules of debate" in the body of that title. then away we go??? something along those lines?

Right now I'm collecting topics. Viktoria listed some. Feel free to add to her list. I won't choose myself, but will go with a concensus from those wanting to participate.

How does that sound?

A little like a totalitarian regime. Post on the part of Admin thus far have displayed a fear of debate; a fear of which I can see no logical reasoning behind. It would appear more logical to try a temporary debate forum in the "normal" sense, and then bring in heavy moderation if the need arose. [remember Kima, I am debating you:D ]


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheezie
i understand the necessity of starting out slow, it's a way to control the anticipated chaos. especially in light of the fact that so few of us have had much experience on a debate board. however, i don’t anticipate any chaos, only mass confusion ;)

Mass confusion can be fun...:p

the only debate board i was ever on saw the same arguments re-hashed ad nausea, so, i quickly lost interest. it will be more interesting to have a forum where topics follow the interests of those posting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheezie
i can't wait to start! :D

chomp, chomp...me either, but I just keep chanting "good things come to those who wait" in the meantime!:D


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheezie
why can't i get a picture of a cauldron over an open fire being tended by the three wild-haired witches from MacBeth --- and upon peering into the cauldron, brains are floating about, simmering?? :eek:

“Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.”

first witch,

wheezie ;)

maybe Viktoria can come up with something? or some other wildly creative member!!!! :cool:
I shall try.:cool: :p

Now Kima, it would be your turn to reply to me, but without the usual "please be patient while we think about this." Debate me!

Viktoria:cool:


second witch,

Prove it!;)
Kim

I think that if the people posting here are any indication of what's to come, we really have the human raw material for some great debates. I can see them now: Wonderful, intelligent, impassioned debates.

I am licking my lips and rubbing my hands with eagerness. :)

i just keep coming back to re-reading the posts where an idea of mine was referred to as "brilliant" :D

rhapsody: .... Post on the part of Admin thus far have displayed a fear of debate; a fear of which I can see no logical reasoning behind. It would appear more logical to try a temporary debate forum in the "normal" sense, and then bring in heavy moderation if the need arose.

i recognise the "fear of debate" in myself, that's for sure. i know that the overall stated purpose of the site is education and support. i started out in *this* thread wondering if it would hurt the rest of the board or add to the overall community feel. i'm still somewhat *afraid* that a debate board may be too antagonistic and those traits will spill out into the other parts of the forum.

i've seen that happen often. a story shared in chit-chat where teasing goes back and forth makes sense in that context. but, someone comments in another thread and out-of-context the "tease" looks like a dig and, since our ADDers seem to be quite an empathetic bunch, someone is bound to pipe up with a resounding whap on the nose of the teaser/digger.

i'm not explaining this well.....

but, while their may be no logical reason behind our fears, our fears remain firmly entrenched until something within us changes and we can move beyond them. this isn't a biggie, in my opinion. it's a lesson in letting go and trusting that people will respect eachother. hmmm, on second thought, that is a biggie!!!!!

this is why my brother-in-law won't debate me. too many times i've said to him, "it may not be logical, but it is how i feel." he doesn't get that. :rolleyes: :D

anyway, i'm glad that the disclaimer needs to be read and signed off on before we enter a debate forum. i might even take it a step further and ask those wanting to participate to write a brief "in-their-own-words" pm to the moderator/admin explaining why they want to be part of the forum. for those wanting to participate, it'd be a small hoop to jump through -- not something that'd stop anyone. we wouldn't be looking for perfect grammar and spelling!!!! :D

this suggestion is coming right from the heart of my fear of "trolls" disrupting our board and *wasting* my time.... :mad: a hate that!!!

anyone sorry they encouraged me yet??? ;)

nighty night,

w.

p.s. thanks for your feedback on my questions andrei and vik. i appreciate it. and thanks kimalimah for all your hard work. i can see that a lot of thought and dedication is going into the planning of the debate forum. i'm sure the wait will be worth it.

Okay some ideas---->
#1 How about genetic "inhancing" medical science can spout that being able to "play" with human genetic system could be used to aviod certain genetic desieses like cerebral palsy, On the other had what if this got out of hand or some doctor of gentetic find a way to filter out the gene for ADD!!!

#2 Schools another hot arena. Should schools be able to insist in children being placed on medications. Shouldn't parents be allowed to decide? If parents of a very hyper-active child are against medications what about the other children in that childs class. I mean a very hyper active child will surly cause a disruption in thier education. Is that fair????!!!!


#3 Insurance: should insurance list ADHD as a medical condition so the treatment would be covered more. Is it not a chemical difference in the brain? What about the rise in medical insurance cost for those not affected by ADHD???


#4 Could or should ADD be used as a defense in a trial??? I mean ADDers hall mark is poor impulse control. Could having poor impulse control be seen as a certifiable defense?? Pro is we do have a chemical difference in our brain for which we were born. That poor impulse control caused me to feel as if I were being attacked when being touched by some one I was argueing with. Against---> ADD does cause poor impulse control but does not make a person affected by ADD incapible or knowing the differece between being touched and being physically hurt. Besides if the court allows you get get off the hook will that open the doors for every one diagnosed with ADD to hit some one simply because they were disagreeing!!!!

I could debate myself on some of these topics!!!!

By the way I watch threads and the moderators don't always reply to every little thing. I mean they participate like every one else but I have seen days go by on threads where the moderator doesn't post. Not posting does not mean absence!!! I look in on several threads and don't have any thing to add so I don't!!! I think that is how it is done.

I have had threads I have participated in moved by a moderator because we got way off topic. All she did was give the topic a thread of it's own. The moderator gave a hyper link to the new thread and once I posted in the new thread I was subscribed to it and able to find it by e-mail hyper link or my user CP. I do not know why this same system would not be effective on a debate forum. I didn't have any problems when post are moved as long as I can find them!!! If a topic began to have too many "points" then the points themselves may give rise to an entirely new topic!!!!

My two cents worth!!! :eek:

I think most of the people in this forum who have talked to me at any length (or read some of my posts) could say that the following statement is just weird for me to be telling someone else...but I had to say it:

whoa, man...chill.

Chrys

OK, for the sake of this post, I shall treat it as I would in a debate forum.;) *kim is shaking in her boots*:eek: but dives in head first anyway! :D

I do not feel that brining back a reputation system/rating system would benefit anyone in the least. If it is to have an ego fed, it is for the wrong reason. If it is to anonymously throw eggs, I would view that as a cowardly act. It is not a good reason to have reputation system back in place. If you wish the reputation system back in place, it would be rather pleasant to see a good reason, which would benefit all, be put forward on the table. Point well taken! My focus here are the people new to debate who might need encouragement, but it may be that I'm looking too far ahead and trying to "fix" something that won't even happen. Wouldn't be the first time, hehehe.
I would have hoped that your moderators to be would be the ones putting in the input here and now, right at this moment. If they aren't, then where is their capacity to contribute fairly and intellectually being displayed? Where are their ideas? Imagination? I fail to see anyone except Wheezie displaying a hint of any of this.

Points in blue are made by me [Viktoria] I think the major problem here is that different people are online at different times and the communication can be a bit slow. I know that Ian has contacted a number of people. What discussions that are taking place there I don't know, but it's underway...

I can only say that I think those being asked bring exactly the qualities you would want for a moderator in the forum. Intelligence, objectivity, and a geniuine interest in seeing this forum become a success.

A little like a totalitarian regime. Post on the part of Admin thus far have displayed a fear of debate; a fear of which I can see no logical reasoning behind. It would appear more logical to try a temporary debate forum in the "normal" sense, and then bring in heavy moderation if the need arose. [remember Kima, I am debating you:D ] *kim notes increase in heart rate and starts to breath deeply telling herself that all is well with the world, then breaks out laughing as she reads the last line*

Here I can only say that fear, unfortunately, isn't always grounded in reason. There was some heavy duty concern about doing this, which this discussion has helped to alleviate along with the laying of a well thought out start-up.

I shall try.:cool: :p

Now Kima, it would be your turn to reply to me, but without the usual "please be patient while we think about this." Debate me!

Viktoria:cool:


second witch,

Prove it!;)
Kim Viktoria, I think in your picture you need to make sure that the SECOND witch is whacking the THIRD witch over the head with her ladle while the FIRST witch is starting to throw the bubbling brains at the other two. The THIRD witch keeps chanting "now where did I put that eye of newt?" The ADD version of MacBeth!

So, how'd I do for a newbie? :faint:

Kim

1. The case of Terry Schiavo
2. Euthanasia
3. Death Penalty
4. Stem Cell Research
5. Jung Versus Freud
6. Cloning7. genetic "inhancing"
8. Should schools be able to insist in children being placed on medications.

9. Insurance: should insurance list ADHD as a medical condition so the treatment would be covered more. Is it not a chemical difference in the brain?

10. What about the rise in medical insurance cost for those not affected by ADHD???

11. Could or should ADD be used as a defense in a trial?


This is a summary of topics so far. How many initial threads would you like to see and what would be your first picks?

Kim

Quote:
Originally Posted by RhapsodyInBlue
OK, for the sake of this post, I shall treat it as I would in a debate forum.;)

*kim is shaking in her boots*:eek: but dives in head first anyway! :D
*Viktoria knew Kima would do this:D *


Quote:
Originally Posted by RhapsodyInBlue
I do not feel that brining back a reputation system/rating system would benefit anyone in the least. If it is to have an ego fed, it is for the wrong reason. If it is to anonymously throw eggs, I would view that as a cowardly act. It is not a good reason to have reputation system back in place. If you wish the reputation system back in place, it would be rather pleasant to see a good reason, which would benefit all, be put forward on the table.

Point well taken! My focus here are the people new to debate who might need encouragement, but it may be that I'm looking too far ahead and trying to "fix" something that won't even happen. Wouldn't be the first time, hehehe.
Kima, usually those who make good points are told "that is a good point you have made", or something similar.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RhapsodyInBlue
I would have hoped that your moderators to be would be the ones putting in the input here and now, right at this moment. If they aren't, then where is their capacity to contribute fairly and intellectually being displayed? Where are their ideas? Imagination? I fail to see anyone except Wheezie displaying a hint of any of this.

Points in blue are made by me [Viktoria]

I think the major problem here is that different people are online at different times and the communication can be a bit slow. I know that Ian has contacted a number of people. What discussions that are taking place there I don't know, but it's underway...

I can only say that I think those being asked bring exactly the qualities you would want for a moderator in the forum. Intelligence, objectivity, and a geniuine interest in seeing this forum become a success.
That's really great to hear, because as you mention time zones, I cannot help but think that at this stage, venus has had time to encirlce this thread with many literations:eek: !
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhapsodyInBlue
A little like a totalitarian regime. Post on the part of Admin thus far have displayed a fear of debate; a fear of which I can see no logical reasoning behind. It would appear more logical to try a t