View Full Version : The Pot Issue


Musical Dreamer
01-23-14, 04:32 PM
I know there are other threads on this, but I figured I could boil it down to one question: what's with all the skepticism about marijuana addiction?

You would think a forum dedicated to a disorder that is still wildly debated and discounted would be a little more sensitive to the fact that not everyone's brain works the same, and on the same token, not everyone is affected the same by controlled substances. I'm not sure how I would feel if I came to what I thought was a safe place to open up about quitting only to be faced with negativity and told that I don't have a problem, I just need to "get my sh*t together and be a grown up." Haven't we all heard that enough in regards to our ADHD? If you can't understand or empathize, try not replying.

I experimented with smoking when I was in high school, but I didn't really begin to self-medicate until I went to college. I smoked pretty heavily in school and still continue to use everyday. I have cut down considerably, but I still struggle with trying to quit. I think because marijuana isn't physically addictive, people think that the withdrawal symptoms don't exist, but they definitely do. Besides the (possibly psycho-somatic) headache, there's a good amount of anxiety and irritability that goes with quitting cold turkey. I know that, for me, it has helped me deal with the negative thought cycle. Quitting means taking away that buffer between me and the darkness I feel I have inside. It's quite upsetting and difficult to manage. From what I've read, it takes a good six months for your mind to go back to normal after. Anyone who has quit cigarettes knows that period of time when you feel like you don't know what to do yourself. Imagine this but way more intense and for way longer.

Of course, everyone is free to do their own research on the topic and form their own opinions, but I just wanted to say to the people struggling to quit that they're not alone. I hope this post will show that we're not just lazy burn-outs who can't get it together. The more chronic of a user you are, the more likely you are to experience withdrawal symptoms and the harder it is to shake. I'd appreciate any message to show solidarity. Quitting alone sucks. Especially since it means not hanging out with a lot of my artsy friends, at least for a little while.

addthree
01-23-14, 05:04 PM
It is hard for some to quit smoking pot. And in some respects addictive. People that smoke pot can be delusional about its negatives. I have friends that have been smoking for 20 years plus and they are paranoid, delusional and generally fried. Drugs mess with your mind making it hard to see reality. If you are familiar with Plato's cave, pot smokers are still in the cave looking at the shadows, when they think they have been enlightened.

Musical Dreamer
01-23-14, 06:00 PM
The thing that makes it even more difficult to quit is the growing legality. Where I live I could get a medical prescription for my ADHD. That to me is insane. Not to say that marijuana doesn't help with ADHD symptoms because it definitely did for me at first. I just see it being a slippery slope. Wellbutrin prolly isn't the best medication for me (going to see a new doc tomorrow), but it has definitely helped better than weed ever has. And now they're going for full legalization just north of me... Definitely getting harder to quit everyday. What's worse is I know I could never do it socially after I quit. That's how I know I'm sure I'm an addict. Once I quit, it has to be for good, or I'll fall right back into a habit. At least I'm aware of that.

addthree
01-23-14, 06:19 PM
I am always confused that Marijuana is good for ADD? People with ADD are forgetful and Marijuana will make your more forgetful/spacey and other things that would not help with ADD. i think people who want it legalized just want it, It does have some medical usefulness but truth be told it is another band aid and not a cure. It never helped for any of my problems, Any.

DichotOhMy
01-26-14, 03:17 AM
I think a lot of potheads are too wrapped up in the mystique of marijuana being a natural drug that can do no wrong and is so much more virtuous than other drugs because it comes from mother earth. Marijuana is very addictive, on an objective and subjective level, but doesn't get reputation as such because marijuana withdrawl doesn't last beyond a few days. Furthermore, the symptoms aren't so acute. Notably, marijuana lacks the physical withdrawal and post-acute withdrawal syndrome of quitting alcohol, benzos, or opiates. Ceasing marijuana also doesn't have the sort of crash and burn devastation of quitting cocaine or amphetamines.

someothertime
01-26-14, 05:29 AM
Keep at it musical... clarity surpasses all else.

I'll share with you something that happened to me that kind of ties in with Dicho's post above.

I've been cleaning out my room the last week ( properly this time lol! )... anyways I come across a small wrapped up piece of paper... as i'm holding the paper... I get a shiver through my body... almost like the real thing... and the heavy aftermath is there too as an undertone...

I would have been one to err on the side of "behavioral hooks" over physical... after that tho' it certainly makes you wonder...

Two things keep me off it... well three... but...

1. It is counter to other treatments.
2. I'm not willing to fry any more neurons.

Some air... AIR? Yeah.... air...

janiew
01-26-14, 05:41 AM
Not a pot smoker here at all, but I was in previous lives. The crappy pot we had back in the day made my anxiety WORSE.

So I quit...

sarahsweets
01-26-14, 06:56 AM
I think pot can be addictive but I think it depends on the person as to how addictive it is.

InTransit
01-26-14, 10:26 AM
If your lifestyle revolves around pot its a nightmare to quit-especially if its been part of your life for since your high school years. Especially if you smoke pot religiously with certain people whom your friends with or smoke prior to certain events either daily weekly monthy or annually. Pool league, homecoming, festivals are rough. I think also the if you use it for therapeutic use its hard to get away from it hits you so instantly. The time frame used when smoking is hard to replace if its a habit of same time/ same place daily is replaceable with other activities-exercise. Seems like physical activity works. Patience is huge along with new interests. Those new interests tend to bring new acquaintances that I think help further you some from your original smoking process. Patience I think is big in the whole process.

Nicksgonefishin
01-26-14, 02:21 PM
I remember the first time I tried pot. I was 19 I think. I was with my gf at the time and I drove her to a friends house. I was so aware of everything my mind was so quiet It truely made me alert. Only the first time. Marijuana and ADHD sound so counter intuitive to me. I'm PI so for those H folks I see how it may be beneficial.

I dabbled in it over the years but then associated the withdrawal with the depression I would feel the next day. It wasn't worth that depression to me and I didn't want to get addicted to it.

I understand it is medication for some. I'm on amphetamines for goodness sakes! I even heard a discussion about mdma(ecstacy) being used to treat ptsd on the radio the other day. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I've never heard of it taking so long to withdraw from marijuana but everybody is different. I'm having the same trouble you are with cigarettes as i've associated them with focus and the 6 weeks that it takes after zero nicotine for the brain to re-wire sounds like forever but I want to breath and not stink and be dependent.

IMO- I work in health care and see the effects of it on children expecially... It saddens me. I beleive very much it is a gateway drug as I see many young people who come in on heroin, meth or prescription medication that started out on pot. My biggest issue with making it legal is that it will get in the hands of children. Even if it doesn't get in the hands of children the parents if they are high aren't completely aware enough to fully take care of their children to the full capacity that they are capable of. On your own adult time whatever floats your boat as long as it isn't affecting those around you.

I get the hemp thing and legalizing it and everything as long as it is very very regulated. I see all too often the effects of marijuana that has been laced. What really bugs me is the bath salts and the heroin. There is also the "well they are going to do it anyways" thought. Activity replacement is key. In quiting smoking I was having the same questioning you were with marijuana with a friend. She said what are you replacing smoking with? I said nothing. Then I thought about it. Instead of spending that 7 min smoking I practice my mindfulness breathe awareness exercise. 2 birds with one stone! :)

Good luck bud.

Conman
01-27-14, 04:19 PM
my opinion is that addiction to weed is more psychologically based than that of a physical one, with the exception of the psychosomatic stuff. i know people who literally just cant go a day without smoking once. sucks to be them. i like it whenever i feel like it, but i dont need it. now personally it's something i prefer to drinking and it's not like it's a transitory thing in life where i will stop for good. i accept there are points i wont smoke for a long time (given im premed and will be a surgeon of all things), but i dont see myself stopping forever. more like few and far between when im older.

id really rather not stop, but i would if i had to. for a time of course. i see it only since certain problems of mine have come to light as somewhat self-medicating, but it's effects are too heavy for me to want to argue it is full-blown self-medication since it significantly impairs me with whatever work or duties i have. as such i only use when i know all my work is done, there's no studying to be done, or that's done too (but i wouldnt smoke the night before an exam even if i was done studying completely).

it's a matter of self-control and such. people who think theyre addicted or think they need it will. not putting those down who struggle with apparent weed addiction but that's how i see it.

Abi
01-27-14, 04:33 PM
Thread Closed Temporarily for Staff Review

Abi
01-27-14, 04:56 PM
Moderator Note:

Please spare a minute to peruse the GUIDELINES for the Addictions section:


We at ADDF want to fully support those dealing with addictions/substance abuse and answer questions. It is, however, imparative that we do not post in such a way to encourage the use of illegal drugs, either by recommendation or debating making it legal. For the latter please see our Private Debate Forum (http://www.addforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=277).

*This forum is NOT to be used to offer tips, suggestions or recommendations on the use of illicit drugs, or the off-label use of licit medications.*

Any post including such information will be removed and the member warned, given an infraction or banned.

Thread re-opened, carry on...

mildadhd
01-27-14, 05:44 PM
Abi,

Did anyone ever tell you, you look like the person from the TV show "Who's The Boss"?


Peripherals

Luvmybully
01-27-14, 05:56 PM
This is an interesting problem now (the forum discussions) because in the US there are 2 states where marijuana is no longer an illegal drug!

So Colorado and Washington State residents are not discussing anything illicit.

Abi
01-28-14, 03:30 AM
Luvmybully,

ADDF policiy is to defer to U.S. Federal Law.

A couple of years ago I was helping the supers dig up prescribing info for various meds. I dug up info on Bromazepam (Lectopam), Rohypnol, and some other benzos that are legal in the UK and Europe (inter alia) but not in the States. Those pieces of info were not included.

Like I said, US. FEDERAL Law is the gold standard. Hope this helps.

Abi
01-28-14, 03:33 AM
Abi,

Did anyone ever tell you, you look like the person from the TV show "Who's The Boss"?


Peripherals

I don't look like Tony Danza

The girl in my Avvy doesnt look like any of the Who's the Boss characters

So I'm kinda confused.

TygerSan
01-28-14, 08:20 AM
This thread reminds me that I want to look up the stats on marijuana use/abuse/dependence and compare outcomes with alcohol abuse and dependence in a place where both are equally legal and in a place where both are decidedly illegal.

My gut feeling is that for both substances, there is a small but substantial minority who get into serious trouble with one or the other, and that there are also people who will never do more than dabble.

Mind altering substances provide escape and comfort (at least in the short term). That said, I have a very hard time figuring out how treating ADHD with pot could ever provide cognitive benefit given its known effects on working memory.

As for natural, the nicotine in tobacco is natural, but if you get too much on your skin, it will kill you. Belladonna (deadly nightshade) also has a natural substance in it that will stop your heart.

So the "it's natural and therefore so much better for me" argument just doesn't work for me. Nature is brutal as well as kind and we need to respect that. A mind altering chemical is a mind altering chemical, whether it comes from a plant or the lab.

someothertime
01-28-14, 08:37 AM
One wonders if the response to such substances can be used to paint an accurate pattern of our particular neurochemistry...

vis-a-vis... a researcher/doctor/therapist can extrapolate much about the underlying brain wiring / tapes based on ones response to such "litmus" markers. ( ties in with MDMA reversion + reprogramming mentioned in another thread )

Apologies OP that is tangential... but substantial.

daveddd
01-28-14, 08:40 AM
One wonders if the response to such substances say alot about our neurochemistry... vis-a-vis... a researcher can extrapolate the underlying brain wiring based on ones response to such "litmus" markers.

i sometimes bounce between this

and simply substances are emotional pain killers

like opiates kill physically pain , but not because the pain has anything to do with opiate receptors

daveddd
01-28-14, 08:47 AM
I don't look like Tony Danza

The girl in my Avvy doesnt look like any of the Who's the Boss characters

So I'm kinda confused.

a slight resemblance to alyssa milano

Abi
02-02-14, 04:29 AM
daveddd: Very slight.

If I smoke pot, its occasional and not particularly exciting. It can be more exciting when combined with opioids and benzo's. Obviously I recognise that this is illegal and dangerous behaviour and want to stop.

Alcohol on the other hand - while Im not addicted and don't have withdrawal symptoms - I love the stuff and drink hard spirits by the litre and it makes me very happy, unless Im very madly hypomanic in which case it makes me ruder and meaner.

mildadhd
02-02-14, 01:25 PM
I've tried different types of "synthetic" and "herbal" cannabis, for back pain. (prescription)

I was allergic to one type of synthetic cannabis, (rash on my face)

Another type of synthetic cannabis gave me terrible anxiety.

Both made me feel terrible.

There is strains of cannabis that are good for sleep (but make ADD worse) (not sure about those with ADHD) and there are some strains that are strong stimulants, that are energizing. (and lots of cross strains with both effects)

Smoking method of ingestion makes the rush more mentally physically addictive, in my opinion.

Any psychoactive substance that is taken long term, in high doses, will cause intoxication and eventually psychotic symptoms.

Mixing different substances can create a new different response, that cannot be accomplished singly, example cigarettes and coffee, etc.

I would really like to see some experts figure out very tiny dose/orally, small enough not to cause intoxication, but enough for medical purposes.

I would like to see cannabis discussed in the medicinal section, for those people with medicinal prescription, both synthetic and herbal.

In my experience cannabis is not good primarily, for treating ADD daily, because herbal cannabis effects are not consistent, even same strains vary from crop to crop. (some may disagree)


I think someone will figure out a way to develop consistent very small oral dosage, like different fish oil's, with a very small amount of cannabis someday, that will work for some people.

Shelled hemp seeds (no THC) are extremely healthy and may be as good for AD(H)D as fish oil, (or better) essential fatty acids, protein, minerals and vitamins, fiber, etc, (even tastes bad)

Cannabis is extremely complex and I would guess there are both positive and negative uses.

Side Note: Abi I thought your avatar was the tony's daughter on who's the boss, I used to have a crush on you, I mean your avatar when I was a kid. (not sure if it is really tony's daughter, but your avatar looks like her to me.)


Peripherals

Abi
02-02-14, 01:33 PM
Its not Alyssa Milano in the pic. I used to have a crush on her too.

datajunkie
02-09-14, 06:39 PM
This is not about advocating or bashing pot use but merely some info on how it affects neurotransmitters. Cannabis may calm some people down by lowering histamine and glutamate in the brain. Histamine in excess can lead to racing thoughts, anxiety and also a black depression. Glutamate in excess is stimulating, and in extreme excess such as when a flood is released in brain trauma, very damaging to the brain. If I can find the link I'll post it but recall a recent article on cannabis being helpful with traumatic brain injury and neuroprotective in some ways.
As a way of self medicating when anxious, it is understandable that people turn to what works.