View Full Version : The first steps: baby steps


Fuzzy12
02-11-14, 06:32 AM
Step 0:

Well, the first step was to accept and admit to myself that I am depressed, which was surprisingly difficult. Surprising because I've been more or less continuously depressed for the last decade but I wanted so badly to believe that once I get treatment for ADHD, I WILL feel better. Also, currently, things aren't bad. My parents, who I love to pieces but depress the hell out of me have just left and I've got about 3 months before the next set of parents arrives. Things at work are better. I'm able to be more productive and for once I'm not in a crazy deadline stress (just the normal ones). And now that my parents have left, my relationship with my husband for once is going pretty well too. We didn't have a single argument this weekend. :yes: So anyway, it wasn't easy that in spite of things being good, my mood still didn't follow suit. I guess, somewhere it felt like, if I can't be happy when my circumstances are good, then how will I ever be happy???


Step 1:

For whatever reason, I still am depressed. So, first step done. The second step I guess, would be to go a bit easy on myself. I spent so much time beating myself up every day (including about being depressed or hurting). I keep preaching this to others but never follow my own recommendation.

Step 3:

Health, nutrition and exercise. I did a bit of exercise today morning but I need to find a way to sort out the logistics. My eating has been a nightmare. I'm swinging between starving myself and binge eating again. I recently put on a lot of weight and that always depresses the hell out of me. I know, rather than trying to lose weight, I need to sort out my unhealthy relationship with food and weight, but I don't even know where to start with that.

I've also started taking vit D (4000iu). Avj, if you are reading this, I'm still a bit worried about this being too much. Also, someone on here said that large doses of vit D tired them out. Maybe I should just take them every second day? Would that make sense?

Step 4:

Feeling my feelings. This is a new one for me. Since yesterday evening, I've consciously tried to not suppress every emotion and unpleasant thought and I realised that not only is it painful but also that I'm continuously trying to suppress something or chastising myself for it. It's quite crazy actually. It's just non-stop "don't do/think this, don't do/think that. STOP RIGHT NOW" If it was another person constantly telling me off, putting me down and telling me what to do, I'd want to kill them (and then I wonder why I don't like myself. I'm horrible to myself :rolleyes:). No wonder my poor brain feels so beaten up.

I think, I'll have to be practical about this. I can't afford to follow for an extended time every silly thought but obviously suppressing everything all the time doesn't help.


Step 5:

Recreational activity. Last month, I started a hell lot of things, interests, crafts, etc. but in the last 2 weeks I stopped everything. Didn't have the motivation. Maybe I should just force myself for to take up a few things again in the hope that with time I'll get interested again.

((Step 6:

Sorting out the future. There is lots to sort and I don't even know where to start. I need a plan but I think for now, I'll just concentrate on the present. Just thinking about 6 months down the road, gives me anxiety. ))

Anything else I can do (apart from medication)??

Fuzzy12
02-11-14, 06:49 AM
Step 7:

Learn how to count. I somehow missed out step 2. :doh::doh::D

stef
02-11-14, 07:02 AM
Fuzzy this is GREAT! I don't have any more advice but the way you've written this all out, and broken it down, is amazing!

VeryTired
02-11-14, 08:42 AM
Fuzzy--

This is an amazing story of determination, perseverance, hard work, intelligence and doing the right things. It's heart-breaking that so often in life we are called upon to work incredibly hard and do all the right things--but sudden happiness is not our immediate reward. That just isn't how it all works, however. It's slower, messier, tougher.

You're on the right track, you're doing the right things, and it all takes time. As you go along, perspectives shift, insights emerge, potentialities develop. You may not even notice some of it as it happens gradually, but you'll notice the changes you want over time. Look at how many are already occurring!

I have to say though, this would all be a lot easier for you with more support--like the kind provided by therapy. I wish there were a way of willing you to have some back up when you need it. But even though I can't wish you into having a thoughtful therapist and more supportive family, I can tell you that I think you are doing an amazing job, and the change from some of your earlier posts is huge already. Congratulations!

sarek
02-11-14, 08:53 AM
This looks like you got a very good approach going Fuzzy.

I am (of course) especially interested in step 4. As you are becoming aware of your emotions it is absolutely vital that you do NOT judge yourself in any way even if you have the same thought a hundred million times. The very first thing to remember is to always be kind and loving to yourself.

Fuzzy12
02-12-14, 06:40 AM
Fuzzy--

This is an amazing story of determination, perseverance, hard work, intelligence and doing the right things. It's heart-breaking that so often in life we are called upon to work incredibly hard and do all the right things--but sudden happiness is not our immediate reward. That just isn't how it all works, however. It's slower, messier, tougher.

You're on the right track, you're doing the right things, and it all takes time. As you go along, perspectives shift, insights emerge, potentialities develop. You may not even notice some of it as it happens gradually, but you'll notice the changes you want over time. Look at how many are already occurring!

I have to say though, this would all be a lot easier for you with more support--like the kind provided by therapy. I wish there were a way of willing you to have some back up when you need it. But even though I can't wish you into having a thoughtful therapist and more supportive family, I can tell you that I think you are doing an amazing job, and the change from some of your earlier posts is huge already. Congratulations!

Tired, thanks..and sorry. I know that you think, I'd really benefit from therapy and I'm sorry if it seems as if you are banging your head against a wall. I've considered therapy but I've got very mixed feelings about it. I've tried talk therapy, which didn't help at all..on the contrary. Probably my counsellor wasn't very good (or we just didn't mesh) but I'm reluctant to give it another go. I'm still on the waiting list for psychotherapy through the NHS though I think that's unlikely to ever happen. I've had a look at private therapy options but they are super expensive and well, I'm not sure how 'blah' they are.

Ok, those are my excuses, the truth is, I'm not sure why I'm so hesitant about therapy. There is something about the thought of confiding in a stranger with the hope that they will understand me and my life better than me that puts me off. I do exactly the same thing here on ADDF so I'm not exactly sure why I'm so reluctant to talk to someone who's job it is. It's possible that I'm just prejudiced by the stigma surrounding therapy (which I'm assuming is worse in Europe and Asia than in the US). I struggle to read self help books as well. I struggle to trust them. Most of them annoy me. I've met a few therapists with my mom...and well, while they were all so nice, they just all seemed so... stupid :rolleyes:

Another thing is I'm kind of reluctant to tell my husband that I need therapy. He's said before that he'd be happy for us to spend money on therapy..or whatever it takes to help me, but it's still sort of embarrassing to admit that I might need it. Or that I'm still depressed. It shouldn't be such a big surprise really. Before I ever started considering the possibility that I had a mental health disorder, I always insisted that I was depressed for a reason and didn't just have a depressive personality. The reason still exists. It's not the only cause of my depression but it will always be there. He knows that. I don't know. I don't want to worry him I guess.

Fuzzy12
02-12-14, 06:44 AM
Step 8:

Stop judging. (Thanks Sarek :)) I don't just need to stop judging myself but everything. I used to pride myself about being a non-judgmental person but actually I'm not. I judge every event, every action, every object. I guess, to an extent that's normal and can't be avoided but maybe I overdo it. Maybe I shouldn't try to decide every moment of the day, if this is a good or a bad moment, if I'm doing well or not. Maybe I need to learn to just .. be. And let be.

VeryTired
02-12-14, 10:01 AM
Fuzzy--

More progress. More accomplishment. More courage. More clarity. This, THIS, is what success looks like. Not the ending of a Hollywood movie, not pure bliss and delight everywhere, not Olympic gold medals being hung round your neck while the crowds cheer. Just this.

I am so impressed with your two most recent posts here. Confronting dislike of/fear of therapy is huge and it's hard. I totally understand how you feel and have felt that way myself. Therapy is no help unless you want it to be and believe it is--but being honest and real about how and why you don't is a necessary first step toward being able to deal with it.

As we know, I have advised you to try therapy about a million times already. It's not because I am such a fan of therapy myself or think everyone should do it. Not at all. But my observation is that it's extremely helpful to intelligent, analytical, motivated people like you. And one of the things I feel it can do best is offer support to people who are under-supported by family and others close to them in real life. It offers safe space for looking at emotions that can be scary, and dealing with problems that can be hard.

A leading reason for being reluctant to do therapy when it seems needed is fear of/dislike of looking this hard problems in the eye. Which is so understandable! But the idea is, therapy provides the tools and protections needed to do that job. It can be scary, but it's mostly about getting safer, feeling better. You'll know when you're ready, and I'll try to remember to stop giving you the same advice again and again.

As for no judging, YES! That's exactly right. Stop judging yourself. I believe our friend dvdnvwls tells you that about as often as I suggest that therapy might help … anyway, it's great to see you writing that you want to stop judging. Just remember that the place to begin that is with yourself.

I wish you could see you the way you look to me--I really get the feeling that you simply aren't aware of the striking positive changes you've been presenting recently. Can't I persuade you to join the fuzzy fan club now?!

avjgirsijdhtjhs
02-12-14, 01:48 PM
What about hypothyroidism? Ever had your TSH measured when getting bloodwork done? Is it elevated? So if you're a vegetarian - What about iodine? Do you eat anything with iodine? Morton's iodized table salt?

And as far as D goes - watch the vid. Read her site. Go look at the dosing stuff on vitaminDcoucil.org (one thousand IU per day for every twenty five pounds of bodyweight if not getting sun). Might help to take a little magnesium (not magnesium oxide though - horrible absorption) and a multivitamin too for the other cofactors.

Fuzzy12
02-12-14, 02:03 PM
What about hypothyroidism? Ever had your TSH measured when getting bloodwork done? Is it elevated? So if you're a vegetarian - What about iodine? Do you eat anything with iodine? Morton's iodized table salt?

And as far as D goes - watch the vid. Read her site. Go look at the dosing stuff on vitaminDcoucil.org (one thousand IU per day for every twenty five pounds of bodyweight if not getting sun). Might help to take a little magnesium (not magnesium oxide though - horrible absorption) and a multivitamin too for the other cofactors.

I got my thyroid function tested in 2009 if I remember right. All fine. Hm...I sometimes have iodised table salt but not regularly (well, rarely :o). I just did a quick calculation and I guess, from my diet I'll get <40% of the RDA in my diet a day. I should check if my multivit contains iodine. :scratch:

I watched the vid. Yesterday I took a 4000iu vit D supplement but I'm a bit worried it's too much so I think, I'll just take one every second day or so?

"one thousand IU per day for every twenty five pounds of bodyweight if not getting sun" -> 6500iu a day??? :eek: (if my lb-kg conversion and calculations are right. My weight fluctuates a lot but right now, it's probably about 70kg).

avjgirsijdhtjhs
02-12-14, 02:21 PM
Do you still have your labwork? If so, can you upload pics?

Fuzzy12
02-12-14, 02:23 PM
Do you still have your labwork? If so, can you upload pics?

Never saw any. They just told me over the phone that everything is ok. :scratch:

avjgirsijdhtjhs
02-12-14, 02:29 PM
Maybe they keep records on file, and you could call and ask?

Fuzzy12
02-12-14, 02:32 PM
Maybe they keep records on file, and you could call and ask?

Why..could I be borderline iodine deficient?? :D

Probably, considering that I'm borderline- everything: Borderline BPD, borderline BP, borderline ADHD, borderline OCD,...

If you put all my borderlines together I make one hell of a disordered person. :lol:

(((Sorry, ignore me!! ;) )))

BellaVita
02-12-14, 04:50 PM
Fuzzy I am so proud of you!!!!!!!! :)

Fuzzy12
02-14-14, 06:22 AM
Step 9:

Don't go back to bed!!!

Today is a real battle. I had to fight with myself to get out of bed and once I managed that I had to fight the urge to go back to bed. I did ok, managed to have breakfast (avj, took another 4000iu of vit D) and do a tiny weeny 5min session of cardio. Wanted to go back to bed but managed some how have a shower. Wanted to go back to bed but got dressed and the rest and left for work. Now I'm in my office, took my meds and I'm only feeling marginally better.

I can't give up. I'm not sure what's going on with me right now, I seem to be depressed and acutely hurting in same amounts. I don't want to slide back into full time depression. Maybe that's where I am already anyway but I need to get out of this funk. Everything hurts. Being awake hurts. I've got so much work. If it wasn't for that I don't think I would have made it out of bed.

avjgirsijdhtjhs
02-14-14, 08:55 AM
Does your sleep always suck?

Fuzzy12
02-14-14, 09:01 AM
Does your sleep always suck?

Not exactly though I've always been a light sleeper. I rarely have problems falling asleep but I wake up with the slightest noise or movement and in general, I wake up a few times at night. I rarely feel rested when I wake up in the morning.

avjgirsijdhtjhs
02-14-14, 09:18 AM
You said that you snore when you gain weight, right? That's an almost collapse of the throat, so have you ever asked your husband if you stop breathing at night?

Here is an excerpt from post from a guy named Dr. Eric Falcon on another forum. He's had success in treating his sleep disordered breathing poor sleep with non-sedating antihistamines. If you go Google up the post that this excerpt is from, he links to another thread where he talks more about this stuff:


On those posts I describe the background of how I stumbled on a discovery that led to the complete relief of my sleep-disordered breathing related symptoms (after nearly 20 years of suffering with terrible daytime drowsiness & chronic fatigue, mild snoring, and recurring difficulty with arising in the morning out of bed).

My sleep studies had diagnosed me with Upper Airway Resistance Syndrome (UARS), since I didn't have any full 'apnea' episodes, just lots of hypopneas throughout the night and related desats, and because of my sleep-disordered breathing related symptoms. (Also, because of my interrupted sleep throughout the night caused by my snoring and hypopneas, I had only stage 1 and stage 2 sleep present during the night, with no stage 3 or stage 4 sleep, and no REM sleep at all, on my sleep studies.)

I was put on CPAP to treat my symptoms (which did provide relief to a degree, for a period of time) and I also even had palate surgery (I had a CAPSO procedure, which is similar to a UPPP, except that it's done with cauterization instead of a scalpel.) This procedure also gave me symptomatic relief, although it was only temporary, as well.

Anyway, I've been free of all symptoms (and off CPAP) for the past two years, since my discovery of simply taking a Claritin at BEDTIME (taking it at bedtime was the key, for me). (By the way, I am not and have never been an allergy sufferer, and I’ve never had any chronic daytime runny nose, sneezing, congestion, etc, in my life. Nor have I ever noticed any of these symptoms at bedtime – e.g., no problems with dustmites, that I’m aware of, etc.)

In my discussion with rooster on the other forum string, I discuss the other non-sedating antihistamines (besides Claritin), which some patients respond better to. (I'm now telling my patients with UARS and mild OSA about my personal experience, and what led to my relief, and I am seeing the same relief happening for many of them, as well as others that I tell about this who have UARS and mild OSA.)

Fuzzy12
02-14-14, 09:28 AM
You said that you snore when you gain weight, right? That's an almost collapse of the throat, so have you ever asked your husband if you stop breathing at night?



I don't think I stop breathing and I only snore a little bit after I've put on lots of weight. :o:o:o ;)

Fuzzy12
02-14-14, 02:47 PM
Baby steps continue:

Step 10:

Break the intertia. As Newton correctly predicted I find it really difficult to start moving from rest or change direction when I'm in motion along a straight line. I struggled to make it to the office today morning and now, as every evening, I'm struggling to get up from my desk and go home. I could have left about 3 hours ago but getting up from my desk is tough. Well, I shouldn't blame myself. It's physics. All I need to find is an equal and opposite force. :doh:

Fuzzy12
02-14-14, 02:59 PM
I guess, there's no point listing points endlessly without ever implementing anything on my list. So here's a quick recap:



Step 0:

accept and admit to myself that I am depressed

Step 1:

go a bit easy on myself.

Step 3:

Health, nutrition and exercise.

Step 4:

Feeling my feelings.

Step 5:

Recreational activity.

Step 6:

Sorting out the future.

Step 7:
Learn how to count.

Step 8:

Stop judging.

Step 9:

Don't go back to bed!!!

Step 10:

Break the intertia.

0: Done
1: No idea. I think, I'm not too horrible to myself at the moment.
2: Doesn't exist :D
3: I'm taking my supplements and this week I did 5mins of cardio on three days. I'm not eating much except for biscuits, which is making me sick..so lots to improve here.
4: I'm working on it
5: Nope, nothing.
6: Nope, nothing. Don't even want to think about it. Anyway, it clashes with point 1.
7: Working on it.. :D
8: Working on it...not going too well.
9: About 6 more hours and then hopefully I can go to bed :yes:
10: I'm still at my desk. :rolleyes:

Fuzzy12
02-15-14, 10:06 AM
Step 11:

Don't pick your skin. This isn't really a baby step. I've always had a problem with picking. I actually stopped for a few months and for once my skin was blemish free. There wasn't even anything to pick. Last week I started again. Turned healthy skin into a mess. Uggh

Dopes1
02-15-14, 10:27 AM
What are you 'picking' out of curiosity? Like, zits?

avjgirsijdhtjhs
02-15-14, 06:24 PM
I got my thyroid function tested in 2009 if I remember right. All fine.

A lot of places use an upper cutoff of 5.0 for TSH.

The American Thyroid Association has a document that I looked at that basically said that most people will probably do best with a TSH from 0.5 to 2.0

(No typos in the above numbers BTW.)

So basically, you could be hypothyroid, but because their cutoff range sucks, you were never notified that your TSH is elevated.

It'd be awesome if they keep patients' records on file for five+ years and you could call and get the results either like faxed or emailed, or you could go take photos of the test results or something.

Fuzzy12
02-15-14, 08:39 PM
Step 12: chicken soup for the soul. We went to a violin concert today and it was so stunning. 3 hours of bliss. I didn't want it to stop. Neither did the conductor.... he kept coming back to play more. . :lol: though the audience was really small. He just rreally loved the music too I think. :) i stopped playing any instruments lately.. Just didn't want to. Not even the piano though it used to make me so happy. I need to start playing again. :) Anyway, I don't just mean music but moments like this, moments you can lose yourself in.. that make you forget everything. When nothing matters except for the present. I used to lIve for Moments like this. They make everything Worth it .:)

dvdnvwls
02-15-14, 11:28 PM
Those moments, the ones that make you forget everything... somehow I think they make you also remember something very important. And playing music myself - sometimes allows my mind to go places it wouldn't otherwise get to travel. :) Sometimes I hear either or both of these things dismissed as "escaping reality", but I dispute that interpretation. Reality without music, reality without the numinous, isn't worth the paper it's printed on. :) (I guess that should say "matter" instead of "paper") :D

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 05:39 AM
Moments pass and nothing remains except for a dim and vague memory of having been happy for a short while. Like a hang over. maybe that's enough. Maybe that's all we get.

dvdnvwls
02-16-14, 12:06 PM
Moments pass and nothing remains except for a dim and vague memory of having been happy for a short while. Like a hang over. maybe that's enough. Maybe that's all we get.
I don't know. I've certainly had that feeling before.

- Due to my being conscious of my own considerable forgetfulness, it often feels as if there's not much to "hold on to".

- Due to the state of my marriage at the time, the emotional contrast between a special event and coming home afterwards was stark and painful in those days; lately, I find that events like concerts etc are viewed much more lightly and easily when seen against a more neutral or positive "background". I don't suggest that my method of improving the "background" (i.e. getting dumped after 20 years of marriage)_is necessarily a good idea for anyone, just re-stating the obvious fact that an unhappy life is an unhappy life.

VeryTired
02-16-14, 12:26 PM
Here's my two cents worth: I have found that in periods of general depression, happiness is strangely sometimes almost tough to take when it comes. For me, happiness is characterized by an apparent promise that this is how things are supposed to be, that the joy, uplift, comfort, delight are the intended reality and that it's possible for them to occur forever. Then misery and anxiety crash or creep back in, and the 'promise' is broken. So the feeling of loss or betrayal is all the greater for the contrast between the up and the down. And that's why a moment's joy during a bad patch of life doesn't necessarily give lasting or usable comfort and encouragement afterwards.

But I have all found that the promise is, more or less, by and large real and true. General, basic happiness is and should be the default, and it isn't so impossible. It just requires a certain threshold of OK-ness in life be reached before it starts. So the depression has to get out of the way before this is possible, and that, of course, is the hitch. Depression doest dissipate just because one wants and needs to be happy.

But even though depression can be insistent, recurrent and tenacious, I don't think it's the norm, or reality. The concerts, accomplishments, inspirations, sunrises, loving embraces, home runs, and all life triumphs are what's real and how it really is, until darkness intervenes. So if it seems like the bright moments are islands in the darkness, it's an illusion. Life is light, with shadows falling across it sometimes.

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 12:28 PM
It's been the norm for 10 years. I wish I could just get used to it.

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 12:35 PM
Step 13 :mad:

Don't wallow in self pity. There's no point. :mad:

Step 13 violates steps 4 and 8 but works with step 10, I think. The one about breaking out of inertia. :doh:

I have to call my parents now and I've got nothing in my arsenal to protect me from that. Ear plugs....

VeryTired
02-16-14, 12:39 PM
Don't get used to depression--no. Wrong idea. But do recognize that a lot of things may have to get sorted before the pattern of dark and light (depression and contentment) can be reversed. And do consider that if ten years of struggling alone hasn't gotten you relief from depression, it might be smart to try getting help with it.

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 12:42 PM
Don't get used to depression--no. Wrong idea. But do recognize that a lot of things may have to get sorted before the pattern of dark and light (depression and contentment) can be reversed. And do consider that if ten years of struggling alone hasn't gotten you relief from depression, it might be smart to try getting help with it.

I did. Didn't help. I know I should try again but I really don't want to. Id rather continue wallowing in self pity and posting about it while pretending every once in a while that I'm putting any effort into getting better so you guys don't give up on me. . :)

dvdnvwls
02-16-14, 12:46 PM
I'm not sure whether what I'm about to say is far off topic, or if it's sadly on-topic... If I've learned anything by being dumped, it's "Don't continue a hurtful situation; either repair it or get a new situation."

Essential universal message: pain is never the norm. Pain is an urgent signal. If your hand is burning, first pull your hand away from the stove; THEN decide what to do next.

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 12:49 PM
I can't repair my situation. The things that are wrong with my situation can't be repaired anymore. Everything else is fine except for me.

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 12:52 PM
Anyway I'm ok. I can do this on my own. I'm sick and tired of being a charity case.

dvdnvwls
02-16-14, 12:57 PM
Id rather continue wallowing in self pity and posting about it while pretending every once in a while that I'm putting any effort into getting better so you guys don't give up on me. . :)
Is that really what's happening? It's a painful possibility. I don't think it's true at all - but I can't prove it. It's certainly an easy interpretation.

The problem with such an interpretation is that it seems to come with an "I'm bad" message embedded in it. With such a message, you can easily lock yourself in a self-built jail, where you are the defendant and the accuser and the judge and the gaoler all rolled into one. It's not a good trap to be in.

daveddd
02-16-14, 12:57 PM
Anyway I'm ok. I can do this on my own. I'm sick and tired of being a charity case.

i don't know about doing it on your own, it is possible

i never thought of you as charity case, whenever i talk both you it just feels like chatting with a friend

daveddd
02-16-14, 12:59 PM
Is that really what's happening? It's a painful possibility. I don't think it's true at all - but I can't prove it. It's certainly an easy interpretation.

The problem with such an interpretation is that it seems to come with an "I'm bad" message embedded in it. With such a message, you can easily lock yourself in a self-built jail, where you are the defendant and the accuser and the judge and the gaoler all rolled into one. It's not a good trap to be in.

fusion

very important

odd enough, its all created by human language

dvdnvwls
02-16-14, 01:02 PM
I can't repair my situation. The things that are wrong with my situation can't be repaired anymore.All right, then it's time to end it. Everything else is fine except for me.
That's just fault-finding and not helpful. If the first two sentences are correct, then it doesn't matter why they're correct. The conclusion is the same.

daveddd
02-16-14, 01:26 PM
i don't know if this will make sense

the jail reference by dvd made me remember one of my toughest parts about getting through my severe depression (i still get dysphoric )

i put myself in a place (cognitive fusion in ACT) where i no longer could observe anything neutrally (thoughts, emotion,environment , people, anything)

thats a tough thing to get out of, it also makes "observing and accepting" useless

Unmanagable
02-16-14, 01:47 PM
Viewing yourself as an unworthy charity case is the main hurdle to cross. I continue to trip over my own, so I totally understand. I no longer expect to reach an, "Aha, I feel better!!!", moment because I no longer feel one exists.

I just have to keep getting better at recognizing each moment for what it is, try to ride it out as best I can, from the most loving point of view that I can drum up of myself.

I still fail miserably and hurt others, but I come across many more "piano moments" like you described than I used to, and I'll take all of those I can get. Like you said, maybe that's all we're going to get.

I think having someone in real life that we feel we can share with is critical also. The couple peeps I used to be able to do that with have more stuff happening in their lives and less time to listen, so I've been choosing to just deal with it all myself, and after about a month of hibernating and missing that meaningful connection, I'm feeling sh***er than usual.

Learning to love ourselves can be a real b****.

I appreciate you sharing your trials more than you know, fuzzy. You so often speak my heart, but I suck at finding the right words to respond.

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 03:04 PM
I'm sorry. I'm being hoRrible. :(

Anyway i really am ok. Bit of alcohol alwayss makes the world look better. :rolleyes:

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 03:09 PM
I ssh poilt my baby steps thread. ... this was supposed to be s constructive thread
. I've got enough doomsday threads floating about :rolleyes::doh::(

daveddd
02-16-14, 03:42 PM
have you ever rode the english eye

i saw it on a tv show yesterday

looks pretty cool

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 03:46 PM
have you ever rode the english eye

i saw it on a tv show yesterday

looks pretty cool

Do you mean the London eye? I've ridden that. You Get niice views of London:)

daveddd
02-16-14, 03:46 PM
yea, thats it, looked cool

air conditioned ferris wheel

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 03:48 PM
yea, thats it, looked cool

air conditioned ferris wheel

At the cost of the ticket it should have been made b of gold and pulled by rockets :rolleyes:

daveddd
02-16-14, 03:53 PM
it cost 70 million pounds to build 100million US dollars

20 pounds a ticket right?

londons architecture is awesome

picture any movie portrayal of a city ghetto, make it pretty big, and put a stinky lake by it and you got cleveland:mad::mad:

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 03:57 PM
London is beautiful. And its super interesting, there's still so much I haven't seen Yet.

I don't know much about Cleveland. .. except that it looks like a huge ghetto with a stinky lake :D is there anything you like about it?:)

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 03:59 PM
Umm.. you are not making small talk with me because of what I said about charity right? ???:eek:

daveddd
02-16-14, 04:04 PM
world class medical facilities (cleveland clinic , st judea, rainbow babies hospital, case medical and more)

great restaurants , if you ever watch cooking tv, michael simon has a bunch of restaurants here

rock and roll hall of hame

football hall of fame


its coming back a bit

almost all of the county politicians from 2-3 years ago are literally in federal prison and more going

they really screwed it up for years

daveddd
02-16-14, 04:05 PM
no, i thought of you immediately yesterday when i saw the program on TV

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 04:06 PM
no, i thought of you immediately yesterday when i saw the program on TV

Ok.. Sorry just oversensitive these days :):grouphug:

daveddd
02-16-14, 04:07 PM
feels good to break out of my robot mode sometimes

can't do it with normals

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 04:11 PM
Who s in the rock hall of fame?

The cleveland clinic rings a bell. I think I've met some docs from therec during my last job.

daveddd
02-16-14, 04:13 PM
most good rock bands

beatles , metallica, heart, aerosmith, beastie boys a wide variety of artists

daveddd
02-16-14, 04:13 PM
have you seen the 1.5 billion dollar royal castle

the main one?

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 04:16 PM
most good rock bands

beatles , metallica, heart, aerosmith, beastie boys a wide variety of artists

Huh? The Beatles are from the uk, from liverpool :eek:

Didn't know about the others. I thought metallic a was from san Francisco but I'm not sure. I go through phases with aerosmith... for a while I listened to amazing non stop...and then dream on...

What royal castle? In the uk?

daveddd
02-16-14, 04:17 PM
Huh? The Beatles are from the uk, from liverpool :eek:

Didn't know about the others. I thought metallic a was from san Francisco but I'm not sure.

What royal castle? In the uk?

buckingham

daveddd
02-16-14, 04:18 PM
its not a cleveland rock hall of fame

rock and roll all around
http://www.rockhall.com

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 04:20 PM
its not a cleveland rock hall of fame

rock and roll all around
http://www.rockhall.com

I I need to learn to read properly ;)

daveddd
02-16-14, 04:21 PM
yea that would sum it up well

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 04:23 PM
Thaanks. I get it now. I thought that

Hey gtg

Fuzzy12
02-16-14, 07:47 PM
Sorry I am back. Ï think I'm becoming just angry bitter. and very unpleasant. It almost makes c me c want to hurt others, vWhich is a very strange feeling. Never felt c this before and I can't say I like it.

Fuzzy12
02-17-14, 01:23 AM
Couldn't sleep all night long, don't want to get up now but at least the weekend is over.

Fuzzy12
02-17-14, 02:07 AM
Kick start the day with breakfast and exercise before getting stuck in traffic or smell more before getting c stuck n in traffic? :scratch:

I give up. Can't do v this. NeIther baby nor giant steps.

Fuzzy12
02-17-14, 06:21 AM
Whatever it is that I'm trying to do it's not working. I'm still in bed. I feel more c immobile than I did 3 hours ago. I'm becoming a vegetable. If I coulf just manage c to get up and go down to the kitchen to take my meds..

I wish I could somehow block addf on my phone as well

Fuzzy12
02-17-14, 01:14 PM
So giving up is not an option. Mainly because I'm not really sure what giving up involves. :rolleyes: Anyway, it looks like my one productive, constructive thread has degenerated into another "I'm so depressed, I don't want to live anymore" doomsday thread so I'd like to start again by revisiting my baby steps:

Step 0:

Accept and admit to myself that I am depressed - DONE (at least the admittance part, I'm not doing too well on the acceptance part I guess).

Step 1:

Go easy on myself

- Super difficult. Well, it's easy when the meds are active and I'm not that depressed. It's tough when I'm sinking or in the midst of depression. One reason is that my cognitve abilities seem to suffer with depression and the ability to regulate my emotions goes completely out of the window. Now this is kind of the whole point of this thread and the other dozen threads I've started recently, but, I guess, my question is how do you regulate your emotions when you aren't really able to think clearly and logically?

Step 3:

Health, nutrition and exercise.

- I'm trying to eat healthy (more proteins, regular meals, breakfast, strictly decaf coffee and less of that as well). I'm taking my supplements and I'm trying to do at least 5 mins of cardio every morning. I know that 5min is probably next to nothing but it's a start. I need to sort out my timing, especially when I wake up, but that's a whole, (long!!) another thread.

Step 4:

Feeling my feelings.

- Similar to step 1. I don't want to feel my depression when I'm depressed. :doh: I want to get ouf of it and feel differently.

Step 5:

Recreational activity.

- I'm quite short on time but yesterday I started playing the piano again and hopefully I'll get some time today evening. I probably should sacrifice ADDF time to get more leisure time. :rolleyes:

Step 6:

Sorting out the future.

- Still not ready to think about that.

Step 7:
Learn how to count.

- I'm fairly skilled in counting :rolleyes: I'll replace this step with something more sensible. I don't want to mess up the order of my steps.

Step 8:

Stop judging.

- See step 1

Step 9:

Don't go back to bed!!!

-Super difficult. Well, if I take my meds regularly it's easier to resist the temptation of going back to bed, but getting out of bed in the morning is still a mammoth task.


Step 10:

Break the intertia.

- Working on it.

Step 11:

Don't pick your skin

- I haven't picked in 2 days (I think). At least not consciously. I usually scratch and pick my skin when I'm trying to focus but at least I haven't spent hours poring over and ruining large areas of healthy skin fully aware of what I'm doing.

Step 12:

Chicken soup moments for the soul.

- I'm merging this step with recreational activities, i.e. step 5. It's not exactly the same, but it's not a qualititative difference, just quantitative. The hope is that recreational activities turn into activities and moments that make life worth living.

Step 13:

Don't wallow in self pity.

- Not possible. Besides, a bit of self pity is healthy (has anyone read The Clown by Heinrich Boell?); it's an admission of wanting more and better and believing that you deserve it. Wallowing in it without taking any proactive steps to get what you want is a waste of time though.

VeryTired
02-17-14, 01:23 PM
Fuzzy--

Great work. Sometimes, what success looks like isn't pretty. Keeping on trying to do the right things when it's hard is a form of success, and you have documented it clearly here for you and all the world to see.

You're very brave, and that's one of my favorite things about you. One problem with being very brave, though, is that it sometimes makes people feel they have to do everything by themselves when sometimes the job takes more than their own effort to get done.

To me it looks as though you're at a point where your hard efforts actually do begin to pay off, but slowly and painfully … with a little more help and support, you might suddenly find that you are getting big success a lot more easily …

I hope your day ends better than it started, but whatever happens next, please notice that someone thinks you are doing well here.

Fuzzy12
02-17-14, 01:25 PM
Tired, how do you deal with unhelpful, damaging emotions?

(Also, thanks!!! :grouphug:)

Fuzzy12
02-17-14, 01:30 PM
Step 14:

(I've changed my mind..I'm not merging or reorganising any steps. I think it might be interesting to see at some point in the future any progress or evolution without going back to page 1. Anyway, they aren't so much steps as they don't follow a particular order or priority, but just points, reminders..)

I've forgotten what I wanted to write in step 14 :eek:

I remembered: Educate myself

I keep printing papers (which I sometimes read..and almost never remember their contents), buying books and planning to buy books. I've still only managed to read about half of Barkley's Taking charge of Adult ADHD. Maybe I need to force myself to read at least 15min a day (as B. suggests in his book) and maybe take notes or something. And all the other books I've bought...

Fuzzy12
02-17-14, 01:50 PM
Step 15:

Don't expect or hope for other people to provide comfort, emotional well being, soothe your pain or boost your self esteem. Stop wanting/wishing to be rescued.

daveddd
02-17-14, 01:56 PM
step 13- while wallowing in self pity , i tricked myself into thinking that the wallowing and rumination was some type of problem solving mode

its not, the thing is nothing in the past can be changed , ever

what my mind wanted was to allow myself to fully experience the pain that came with the events, and stop trying to avoid it

don't know if that applies to you, but it made me think of it when reading 13


15- fuzzy is the smartest , prettiest , and awesomist girl on earth

I'm going to boost your self esteem , like it or not

Unmanagable
02-17-14, 02:18 PM
Sometimes getting rid of the steps can make it easier to get where we need to be. Sliding boards would be a much more fun way to get there than steps, don't ya' think? :)

I find when I try to plan anything out, especially my success in anydamnthing, I usually paralyze myself from being overwhelmed by the process before I can even start. If I just do it sporadically, without thinking, I have more success.

I wish we all could see ourselves through the eyes of those who love us. We need more love and acceptance and less fear and rejection, especially against ourselves. And that seems to be the hardest part most days.

Fuzzy12
02-17-14, 02:45 PM
step 13- while wallowing in self pity , i tricked myself into thinking that the wallowing and rumination was some type of problem solving mode

its not, the thing is nothing in the past can be changed , ever

what my mind wanted was to allow myself to fully experience the pain that came with the events, and stop trying to avoid it

don't know if that applies to you, but it made me think of it when reading 13


15- fuzzy is the smartest , prettiest , and awesomist girl on earth

I'm going to boost your self esteem , like it or not

I've struggled for a very long time trying to make sense of my past and the fact that I couldn't drove me crazy. Well, I thought I was trying to make sense of it but what I really did was trying to either erase it or somehow make it ok and that just wasn't possible. Rumination still is a big problem but anti depressants helped me to stop obsessing about my past.

Thanks for the self esteem booster. You are very sweet!! :grouphug:

I'm a sucker for compliments and positive reenforcement, probably because I get very little of that from myself.

I am serious though about step 15. I'm pretty lousy at handling any type of relationship but I have a big problem when I start becoming dependent on someone else to satisfy my various emotional needs. Worse, to fill that emotional void in me. No other person can do that for you, not reasonably or healthily and definitely not for an extended amount of time and once that's taken away from me I go absolutely crazy and crash badly. I find it very hard and very painful to recover from that. It's hard to repair my emotional stability or well being and usually, it's pretty much impossible to repair the relationship.

dvdnvwls
02-17-14, 05:31 PM
15 is tricky, because while it has some truth in it, it also encourages putting derogatory labels on your own emotions and thereby having a sneaky way to deny or invalidate them.

Yes, making a decision to really ask to be rescued from every situation is wrong. That is the good and true side of step 15.

Feeling scared or lonely or hurt (or any emotion) is right, and always needs to be honoured and acknowledged, regardless of the context. That's the false and bad side of step 15.

Fuzzy, did you see the charts and lists of emotions posted fairly recently by Nicksgonefishin?

dvdnvwls
02-17-14, 05:38 PM
Hmmm... another bad side of step 15... (I'll be too blunt, as usual. Sorry in advance):

Step 15 can be code for "Stop expecting my husband to be kind to me in the ordinary way."

Of course it can also mean "There's no need to tell him every emotion, and no reason to expect him to react each and every time I don't feel good".

(Sigh...) This is not so simple.

dvdnvwls
02-17-14, 06:47 PM
I'm a sucker for compliments and positive reenforcement, probably because I get very little of that from myself.

I am serious though about step 15. I'm pretty lousy at handling any type of relationship but I have a big problem when I start becoming dependent on someone else to satisfy my various emotional needs. Worse, to fill that emotional void in me. No other person can do that for you, not reasonably or healthily and definitely not for an extended amount of time and once that's taken away from me I go absolutely crazy and crash badly. I find it very hard and very painful to recover from that. It's hard to repair my emotional stability or well being and usually, it's pretty much impossible to repair the relationship.
This topic (not your interpretation or your understanding, but the underlying topic itself) is a convoluted mess to me. There seem to be a lot of ways to look at it.

However, in my mind, for right now, it comes down to one simple fact - you need something. Painfully, deeply, desperately.

I suggest throwing aside everything you know about that. What you know about it hasn't worked so far; maybe it's wrong. I suggest the possibility of - patiently and curiously and without being judgmental - discovering again for the first time what it is that you really need.

Because you are intelligent and efficient and practical, you have a tendency to jump to finding "ways of getting what you need" before you even know for certain what you need. It might take a lot of patience, a lot of wilful resisting, to not start solving the problem, to not lay blame, to not find reasons why you can't have it... and, most especially, to not say "I need a way out of needing what I need".

To just find out what it is that you really need, and to stop and sit with that for a while. No solving, no rationalizing & relativizing, no jumping to conclusions, no blame, no guilt or shame. Be compassionate with yourself, and curious, and thoughtful. It's been this long - you can solve the problem next week. Just seeing that need for what it is, and stopping right there, is more than enough.

Your special wish (I kind of think of it as "Fuzzy's wish" because I've never seen it so clearly before), for a clever creative way out of your needs that involves not getting them met, might be one of the biggest things in your way.

VeryTired
02-17-14, 07:18 PM
Hi, Fuzzy--

This thread seems to have morphed interestingly from pragmatic self-help to deeply philosophical musing. You asked how I deal with unhelpful, damaging emotions. If I had good answers to this, I probably wouldn't be here looking for help with my problems so much! I really wish I had some great succinct piece of wisdom to tell you. But, no such luck. I wouldn't impose these lame strategies on the Forums if you hadn't asked, but I think a direct question always merits an answer if possible. So here goes.

I try to avoid anger as much as possible, not because there is anything wrong with it (and sometimes it can be a mighty tool) but because it usually exhausts me and leaves me feeling ill. I refuse unless absolutely necessary to experience regret. I long ago made a deal with myself that as long as I am doing the best I can, I expect nothing more of myself, however imperfect the results.

The bad emotions I most often wrestle with are more like frustration, irritation, outrage, and impatience. I have no ability to deal with frustration--none. Irritation, I try to talk myself through, and remind myself that it's unhelpful to anyone (no, that doesn't work well, but it's all I've got). Outrage happens so fast I usually don't have a chance to control it, and impatience is an endless brutal struggle with myself to be more patient somehow. I talk to myself about how I want to be, what is the right thing to do, whether or not I am proud of what I am doing.

Not to beat the dead horse of why-therapy-is-valuable, I have to say that what I have learned from therapy is that I can get myself in trouble when I don't accept my own need and feelings, that it is OK to want and need things, to mess things up, to have strong difficult emotions. Just taking out my thoughts and feelings weekly to show them off to someone else can be incredibly helpful--it prevents unbearable build-up of anxiety, for one thing.

Fuzzy12
02-17-14, 09:21 PM
Hmmm... another bad side of step 15... (I'll be too blunt, as usual. Sorry in advance):

Step 15 can be code for "Stop expecting my husband to be kind to me in the ordinary way."

Of course it can also mean "There's no need to tell him every emotion, and no reason to expect him to react each and every time I don't feel good".

(Sigh...) This is not so simple.

It's not code or anything about my husband at all. :doh:

I'm not looking for ways out of my needs that involve not getting my needs met. I'm looking for ways to stop me from going insane when my needs can't get met.. I don't know. Maybe it's not that either. I just want to stop hurting.

I don't know if that's true either. I guess the truth is that I'm trying to eliminate needs that make me vulnerable, unreasonable needs, needs that Can't be met.

Fuzzy12
02-17-14, 10:00 PM
I'm not looking for ways out of my needs that involve not getting my needs met. I'm looking for ways to stop me from going insane when my needs can't get met.. I don't know. Maybe it's not that either. I just want to stop hurting.

I don't know if that's true either. I guess the truth is that I'm trying to eliminate needs that make me vulnerable, unreasonable needs, needs that Can't be met.

Ignore above b please. Too tired to make it make sense

dvdnvwls
02-17-14, 10:10 PM
Your needs can always be met, when you're honest about what they are and honest about your situation. Radical tenacious complete honesty is necessary though.

Fuzzy12
02-17-14, 10:20 PM
Your needs can always be met, when you're honest about what they are and honest about your situation. Radical tenacious complete honesty is necessary though.

No they can't. Probably because v they are not needs. . Just stupid desires of a sick mind. I need to be self sufficient. I can't deal with humans.

willow129
02-17-14, 10:59 PM
2009 was a while ago. Not that I'm saying that's it,
but do you have thyroid stuff in your family history? I had my thyroid checked last year and they said it was fine but I should check again within the year.

**hugs Fuzzy** practice being nice to yourself :) you can do it!

Edit: I did not see how long this thread is! Responding to something from a while ago that probably has already been discussed fully :)

dvdnvwls
02-18-14, 12:49 AM
No they can't. Probably because v they are not needs. . Just stupid desires of a sick mind. I need to be self sufficient. I can't deal with humans.
I like this post. It conveniently assembles the worst of the lies into one neat package. Allows you to see what you're dealing with, in a way.

Fuzzy12
02-18-14, 02:06 AM
I'm not sure what to reply :scratch:

What's wrong with being self sufficient

VeryTired
02-18-14, 02:14 AM
Fuzzy! No offense intended, but I think the point is that you certainly are not at all self sufficient, and whether or not that's a good goal for you, it's one you aren't likely to reach without help … which is kind of a paradox because if you get help to reach that state, how self-sufficient will you be? John Donne said "No man is an island" and he was right.

Fuzzy12
02-18-14, 04:14 AM
Your needs can always be met, when you're honest about what they are and honest about your situation. Radical tenacious complete honesty is necessary though.

I am honest. I am not just blabbering. I've thought about step 15. I have acknowledged the need. This need cannot be met. Not over an extended period of tine. Expecting an unreasonable, untenable need to be met is just hurting me. What's the alternative? I can't think of anything else but making the need redundant.

Fuzzy12
02-18-14, 04:21 AM
Fuzzy! No offense intended, but I think the point is that you certainly are not at all self sufficient, and whether or not that's a good goal for you, it's one you aren't likely to reach without help … which is kind of a paradox because if you get help to reach that state, how self-sufficient will you be? John Donne said "No man is an island" and he was right.

No offense taken :grouphug:

I don't expect to be an island. I am not planning to denounce the world and start growing my own grain. I'm not even leaving ADDF and I know that I'm getting a tremendous amount of help here. I tried leaving but I couldn't. I need the support and that's ok. I can live with that.

What I can't live with is depending on someone else to give me a sense of self worth or meaning. It's too shaky. It has to come from me.

Fuzzy12
02-18-14, 04:23 AM
2009 was a while ago. Not that I'm saying that's it,
but do you have thyroid stuff in your family history? I had my thyroid checked last year and they said it was fine but I should check again within the year.

**hugs Fuzzy** practice being nice to yourself :) you can do it!

Edit: I did not see how long this thread is! Responding to something from a while ago that probably has already been discussed fully :)

Thanks willow. There's no history of thyroid problems in my family but there is a history of depression, BP, ADHD (mom) and OCD (dad). :)

Fuzzy12
02-18-14, 04:41 AM
To just find out what it is that you really need, and to stop and sit with that for a while. No solving, no rationalizing & relativizing, no jumping to conclusions, no blame, no guilt or shame. Be compassionate with yourself, and curious, and thoughtful. It's been this long - you can solve the problem next week. Just seeing that need for what it is, and stopping right there, is more than enough.

.

And no, it can't wait till next week. I'm not that strong. I can't deal with these feelings anymore. They are killing me. I want this pain to stop. Right now!!!!

Fuzzy12
02-18-14, 04:48 AM
Uggghhhhh...just ugghhhh :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Fraser_0762
02-18-14, 04:52 AM
And no, it can't wait till next week. I'm not that strong. I can't deal with these feelings anymore. They are killing me. I want this pain to stop. Right now!!!!

Fuzzy, you're so hyperfocused on your feelings that you're letting them take control.

You need to distract yourself. Go outside for a walk or something, do something to take your mind off the feelings.

Right now, they're overwhelming you. But you're giving them too much notice.

You need to take your focus away for a while, find something relaxing to do.

dvdnvwls
02-18-14, 05:17 AM
What I can't live with is depending on someone else to give me a sense of self worth or meaning. It's too shaky. It has to come from me.
Yes. Yes. Many times yes. :grouphug:

Fuzzy12
02-18-14, 06:31 AM
Sometimes getting rid of the steps can make it easier to get where we need to be. Sliding boards would be a much more fun way to get there than steps, don't ya' think? :)

I find when I try to plan anything out, especially my success in anydamnthing, I usually paralyze myself from being overwhelmed by the process before I can even start. If I just do it sporadically, without thinking, I have more success.

I wish we all could see ourselves through the eyes of those who love us. We need more love and acceptance and less fear and rejection, especially against ourselves. And that seems to be the hardest part most days.

The hardest part for me is to feel helplessly stuck, trapped in the depression with no control over it and not knowing when or if it will ever end. It's easy to get used to a chronic state of just not being happy but this acute pain isn't something I can bear for much longer and I am not convinced that I can get out of it without any conscious, focused effort.

I know, there is a risk of over thinking everything but these steps weren't just meant to be a plan to be rigidly followed but more than anything a reminder that I am not necessarily condemned to be depressed and miserable for ever and that there are things I can do to help myself. Maybe in a way it was also a reminder that perhaps I do deserve more than being depressed and it's ok to work towards being better.

Anyway, maybe it was a stupid idea. A kindergarten revolt against the inevitable. A desperate attempt to hang on to something that doesn't exist.

VeryTired
02-18-14, 09:06 AM
Your idea of the baby steps was a good one. But, although good, by itself it isn't sufficient to solve your problem quickly, and you desperately want to solve your problem ASAP because you are in pain. If you had a broken leg, you wouldn't say "I have to do this myself" and be angry that you can't walk by the next day.

Self reliance is great. Your steps are excellent. You are doing as well as a person can alone. The Forums help somewhat, but more by taking the edge off your misery because your'e safe to talk here than by helping you to make changes.

Something I notice a lot is that you can sometimes be an extremely angry person, but as soon as anger is noticeable, you push it away or seem to assume you're not allowed to be angry at anyone but yourself. Fuzzy, on behalf of the entire ADD Forums, I hereby give you permission to feel any emotion you may have, whether ugly or positive or weird or whatever. And please remember, there is zero obligation for emotions to be reasonable. They aren't right or wrong, they just are. You are also allowed to be scared, bored, frustrated and confused. You can shift from one to the next, or have several emotions at once.

Be on your own side. Assume that what you feel is real and OK and that you are doing very well in your work to address your problems. Think about many wise words you've heard from RedHairedWitch and sarahsweets, who are both very strong voices about this sort of thing.

Unmanagable
02-18-14, 10:04 AM
The hardest part for me is to feel helplessly stuck, trapped in the depression with no control over it and not knowing when or if it will ever end. It's easy to get used to a chronic state of just not being happy but this acute pain isn't something I can bear for much longer and I am not convinced that I can get out of it without any conscious, focused effort.

I know, there is a risk of over thinking everything but these steps weren't just meant to be a plan to be rigidly followed but more than anything a reminder that I am not necessarily condemned to be depressed and miserable for ever and that there are things I can do to help myself. Maybe in a way it was also a reminder that perhaps I do deserve more than being depressed and it's ok to work towards being better.

Anyway, maybe it was a stupid idea. A kindergarten revolt against the inevitable. A desperate attempt to hang on to something that doesn't exist.

It wasn't/isn't stupid at all. It's yet another stepping stone in this f'd up game of life we've been given. I was just sharing how it goes for me when I try to get through my worst times.

Trying to plan my way out of it via lists, structure, needing to talk to someone, or whatever my need is at the time tends to backfire on me, often, and makes it an even more frustrating process than it already was, and the overwhelm kicks in, again.

That doesn't make it any less important for me to keep trying, regardless. I was just trying to let you know I can strongly relate and that you aren't alone. Hoping relief is near and answers that work for you make their way to you.