View Full Version : Paleo Diet curious to hear what people think?


Slybfoxx
02-21-14, 01:01 AM
I did this diet and it really worked well for me after a foggy first week...I think it may have helped with adhd symptoms. I have not been able to on this diet for a while now since last year when I was really strict about carb intake. For those not familiar with ketosis, it is a state when your body uses up all the glucose (sugar) and you start burning your body fat. I felt like superman last summer/fall when I went on the diet and got down to my 20 year old weight. I was working out a lot including weight lifting. I screwed up though and overdid it, I developed tendonitis in my elbows and its taken a long time to recover, I gained back about 20 pounds, the toughest 20 to lose...

I am thinking about doing the diet again, I wanted to hear what others think.

The body and brain run on ketones, not glucose on this diet. It sounds pretty wacky and is definately controversial, it's still hard to know what effects it has had/will have on my heart and arteries. I don't want to have a heart attack (obviously) and all the years of ritalin and adderall I worry have taken their toll on my heart...

Now I hear that the diet actually acts like a statin, having a clearing effect on the arteries. Then I get my uncle telling me I am crazy to eat all this meat/protein.

I want to hear what people say and thanks in advance for your thoughts. I really felt clear headed while on the diet and I have felt foggy after eating carbs sometimes. I'm sure many have heard that eggs/protein can be good for adhd....

Does anyone have a really good reason why they would not recommend a really low carb diet with adhd?

janiew
02-21-14, 01:26 AM
Hi Slybfoxx -

I have not done the paleo diet, per se. But I have lived on the Zone Diet very successfully for years at a time. I think the Zone Diet with balanced Fat, Protein, and Carbs is similar to Paleo and Mediterranean.

The Zone Diet emphasis is on low glycemic carbs and bread, pasta, white potatoes, etc. were limited. When I rarely ate white carbs, they were balanced with healthy fat and protein. But mainly my carbs were limited to fresh veggies, fruit, or incidental.

For me, it's a diet that feels good but it can take time to adjust. That said, it can be very flexible if one learns how to balance the good stuff with the bad. Takes practice. :)

Let me know if you'd like more info.

Unmanagable
02-21-14, 01:37 AM
I've tried almost every diet marketed, for various reasons, and had no luck with significant improved health with any of them, or with sticking with them. I finally started making little changes, with the guidance of a registered dietitian, gradually, instead of a major transition all at once. That helped big time!!

What I've found works to help me function better overall, not specific to adhd symptoms, is:

eating a wide variety of non-processed, wholesome foods
don't eat from packages, boxes, or drive-thru windows
use sea salt vs. table salt
season with fresh herbs vs. msg laden seasonings
using natural sweeteners vs. processed sugars
eating in season and locally
include proteins throughout the day and especially at breakfast
eliminate gluten
limited dairy
limited red meat (and I only buy locally raised and grass fed) - meat and seafood sources highly concern me
drink kombucha, organic juices with seltzer water, herbal teas, and filtered water - no sodas and limited coffee
I also supplement with several vitamins and minerals: vit d, vit c, magnesium, omega 3, etc. - several things tested low in blood work

Good luck in your nutritional fog lifting pursuits! Keep in mind, even though these changes have helped my overall health, my adhd symptoms are still every bit a pain in the a** as they were before. I just have fewer other issues on the same plate with them now, so it's a little easier to manage, usually. Sounds like you're very health conscious, so my apologies if I listed things you're already doing. Take good care!

janiew
02-21-14, 01:40 AM
Yes, a wide variety of unprocessed food is very helpful.

dvdnvwls
02-21-14, 01:52 AM
Paleo is a fad diet. It is just as good as all the other fad diets - it contains a cute idea that makes people interested.

A real paleo diet includes huge feasts of meat followed by not eating anything for several days, and includes hunting your own food, with spears and sticks instead of guns, as your primary life's work.

sarek
02-21-14, 05:32 AM
Paleo is a fad diet. It is just as good as all the other fad diets - it contains a cute idea that makes people interested.

A real paleo diet includes huge feasts of meat followed by not eating anything for several days, and includes hunting your own food, with spears and sticks instead of guns, as your primary life's work.

Right on. You got to see the whole picture. What you are looking for is trying to attain the metabolic balance your body is designed for. If your activity levels are different, so should your diet be.

I have seen people on paleo or ketogenic diets gobble down insanely large quantities of animal fat. Well, that can't be good unless you happen to live on the North pole.

What does work is what unmanageable said, is to systematically eliminate potential danger factors from your diet and making other beneficial small changes. This also eliminates the potential yo-yo effect of any crash diet.

Whatever changes you make, think it over intelligently before you blindly follow someone else's recommendations. As ADDers, thinking for ourselves instead of following instructions is our strong side.

Slybfoxx
02-24-14, 04:01 PM
Call this a low carb diet and that will take out the "fad" aspect. I have already had success with this diet, but I wondered if others have done low carbs and had either had positives or negatives. Of course lifting weights and doing cardio helped me feel a lot better I really felt like Superman but developed tendonitis in both elbows and didn't stop which was not smart. Thanks in advance!

dvdnvwls
02-24-14, 05:06 PM
"Low carb" is a fad too, even if you take away all the "paleo-ish" factors from the food you're describing, which I suspect you didn't plan to do. The reason is that "Low carb" is a meaningless term - low compared to what?

Having carbs "low" is a major mistake. Having carbs "high" is a major mistake as well. What matters is having carbs (and proteins and fats and everything else) at the right levels for you.

A true good diet is technically boring, even though it may be great food. Playing chemical tricks on your body through food is always fad territory. Eat your vegetables, get some exercise, not too much of anything, and anything that's cooked in a factory and comes in a box or bag with an ingredients list on the side then don't eat it. You don't even have to read the ingredients; if they have to list them, then you don't want it. And (finally) don't create a religion over your food, or stress about rules and should's and can'ts. As far as possible, simply do what you need to do. You don't have special dietary needs just because you work out - in fact, you have slightly more dietary latitude than the person who doesn't.

And dropping the fad diets will give you more time to plan your workout routine carefully, thus avoiding tendonitis. :)

addthree
02-24-14, 05:49 PM
The guy that created the paleo diet got really sick because his kidneys quit working. My friends mom personally knows this guy, Its a joke and is really unhealthy.

kstate23
02-24-14, 10:08 PM
I've been on the paleo diet for about 6 months now and I love it. It's kind of similar to the Feingold diet in that you avoid unnatural foods, dyes, etc. I would definitely recommend it to help deal with ADHD. It has especially helped me with mood and energy levels.

kstate23
02-24-14, 10:09 PM
The guy that created the paleo diet got really sick because his kidneys quit working. My friends mom personally knows this guy, Its a joke and is really unhealthy.

Your comment is a joke.

Slybfoxx
02-28-14, 10:53 PM
"Low carb" is a fad too, even if you take away all the "paleo-ish" factors from the food you're describing, which I suspect you didn't plan to do. The reason is that "Low carb" is a meaningless term - low compared to what?

Having carbs "low" is a major mistake. Having carbs "high" is a major mistake as well. What matters is having carbs (and proteins and fats and everything else) at the right levels for you.

A true good diet is technically boring, even though it may be great food. Playing chemical tricks on your body through food is always fad territory. Eat your vegetables, get some exercise, not too much of anything, and anything that's cooked in a factory and comes in a box or bag with an ingredients list on the side then don't eat it. You don't even have to read the ingredients; if they have to list them, then you don't want it. And (finally) don't create a religion over your food, or stress about rules and should's and can'ts. As far as possible, simply do what you need to do. You don't have special dietary needs just because you work out - in fact, you have slightly more dietary latitude than the person who doesn't.

And dropping the fad diets will give you more time to plan your workout routine carefully, thus avoiding tendonitis. :)

All consumption of food involves chemical tricks as you call them. I'm trying to get information about the low carb diet, not hear about what a normal diet is or is not. Thanks.

Slybfoxx
03-01-14, 12:36 PM
:goodpost:Right on. You got to see the whole picture. What you are looking for is trying to attain the metabolic balance your body is designed for. If your activity levels are different, so should your diet be.

I have seen people on paleo or ketogenic diets gobble down insanely large quantities of animal fat. Well, that can't be good unless you happen to live on the North pole.

What does work is what unmanageable said, is to systematically eliminate potential danger factors from your diet and making other beneficial small changes. This also eliminates the potential yo-yo effect of any crash diet.

Whatever changes you make, think it over intelligently before you blindly follow someone else's recommendations. As ADDers, thinking for ourselves instead of following instructions is our strong side.

execfunc
03-01-14, 04:04 PM
I think the Paleo diet might not be properly named. People (I'm not sure if Homo sapiens was yet in ascendance at that time, or if it was Neanderthals) in the Paleolithic period probably got very little meat, and a lot more vegetables, perhaps nuts, and occasional fruit. In any event, I stick to a primarily low glycemic diet and I'm vegetarian. I feel energized (never sluggish, notwithstanding my chronic problems with sleep), I'm always "full," meaning I eat about five times each day in smaller portions than many, and I supplement my diet with some vitamins; multi, Magnesisum, Calcium, and Fish Oil for Omega-3 (my one concession to animal consumption). I get protein from sugar-free protein bars, some soy, and a lot of vegetable protein. I have almost no dairy in my diet. I have only recently gotten this all under control due some changes in my personal life, along with my increased ability to concentrate, plan, and sustain activity through medication, as well as the decrease in appetite that often led me to snack when I really didn't need to, often with sugary, high carb., processed foods.

I feel really good, overall – again, the sleep thing, and some chronic musculoskeletal pain, which I've once again begun to address through weight and stretching exercises. Look into low glycemic eating if you haven't yet. I think it might be a bit more analogous to the actual human evolutionary diet, but with allowances for sound modern insights into good nutrition. We can't assume, after all, that our Paleolithic forbears were vivacious, carefree, and mentally hardy individuals. Unlike us, their primary concern was simply staying alive long enough to get their genes into a successive generation and, perhaps, getting their offspring to reproductive maturity. We have so much more on our plate (pun intended!) in modern times.

Canadian Mess
03-01-14, 07:27 PM
The thing is, the body and brain run on glucose, that's the currency of energy in the body. Ketones are not equal to glucose, it's very hard on the body to try and run on fat... it just doesn't work. Nice concept, but no it doesn't work.

From an evidenced-based perspective, the best diet is a healthy diet. And by diet, I mean eating pattern from day to day, not a fad. A healthy diet is one where you eat lots of vegetables and fruits, whole grains, fish, lean meat, dairy and legumes, nuts and seeds. A diet that is low in sodium, low in total fat and low especially in saturated fat. The diet has a lot of protein, complex carbohydrates and gets most fat from unsaturated sources. Where a person eats 3 meals a day and 2-3 snacks. This person exercises every day for at least 60 minutes a day... and gets 7-8 glasses of water, and 7-8 hours of sleep. Not eating beyond what is needed.

Why that kind of diet? Because it is associated with lower chances of cardiovascular disease, diabetes, obesity, cancer and atherosclerosis. It is fuelled with adequate protein to create neurotransmitters and fuel lean muscle mass in the body, adequate glucose to fuel the cells, enough micronutrients for the metabolic processes, strong bones, unclogged arteries,... that's why it's recommended. As long as a diet has those components all the more power to you

kstate23
03-01-14, 11:14 PM
The thing is, the body and brain run on glucose, that's the currency of energy in the body. Ketones are not equal to glucose, it's very hard on the body to try and run on fat... it just doesn't work. Nice concept, but no it doesn't work.

From an evidenced-based perspective, the best diet is a healthy diet. And by diet, I mean eating pattern from day to day, not a fad. A healthy diet is one where you eat lots of vegetables and fruits, whole grains, fish, lean meat, dairy and legumes, nuts and seeds. A diet that is low in sodium, low in total fat and low especially in saturated fat. The diet has a lot of protein, complex carbohydrates and gets most fat from unsaturated sources. Where a person eats 3 meals a day and 2-3 snacks. This person exercises every day for at least 60 minutes a day... and gets 7-8 glasses of water, and 7-8 hours of sleep. Not eating beyond what is needed.

Why that kind of diet? Because it is associated with lower chances of cardiovascular disease, diabetes, obesity, cancer and atherosclerosis. It is fuelled with adequate protein to create neurotransmitters and fuel lean muscle mass in the body, adequate glucose to fuel the cells, enough micronutrients for the metabolic processes, strong bones, unclogged arteries,... that's why it's recommended. As long as a diet has those components all the more power to you

Saturated fat and cholesterol are not bad for you. They don't clog your arteries, that is the worst myth in science. Cholesterol repairs your arteries. When someone spikes their sugar too much, smokes, etc. it damages the endothelial lining of the arteries causing inflammation. Inflammation triggers the cholesterol to be transported there (by low-density lipoprotein (LDL)) to repair the inflammation.

When people keep smoking and/or spiking their sugar, cholesterol builds up and overtime, it can clog arteries.

If there are a lot of cops (cholesterol) in high crime areas (inflamed arteries) do you blame the cops for the crime or are the cops (cholesterol) there as a result of the crime (inflammation)?

Eating low carb doesn't mean one is going ketogenic so your brain will still get its precious glucose.

Watch the documentary "Fat Head." It's an easy to understand source for people that have a hard time grasping science.

kstate23
03-01-14, 11:19 PM
I think the Paleo diet might not be properly named. People (I'm not sure if Homo sapiens was yet in ascendance at that time, or if it was Neanderthals) in the Paleolithic period probably got very little meat, and a lot more vegetables, perhaps nuts, and occasional fruit. In any event, I stick to a primarily low glycemic diet and I'm vegetarian. I feel energized (never sluggish, notwithstanding my chronic problems with sleep), I'm always "full," meaning I eat about five times each day in smaller portions than many, and I supplement my diet with some vitamins; multi, Magnesisum, Calcium, and Fish Oil for Omega-3 (my one concession to animal consumption). I get protein from sugar-free protein bars, some soy, and a lot of vegetable protein. I have almost no dairy in my diet. I have only recently gotten this all under control due some changes in my personal life, along with my increased ability to concentrate, plan, and sustain activity through medication, as well as the decrease in appetite that often led me to snack when I really didn't need to, often with sugary, high carb., processed foods.

I feel really good, overall Ė again, the sleep thing, and some chronic musculoskeletal pain, which I've once again begun to address through weight and stretching exercises. Look into low glycemic eating if you haven't yet. I think it might be a bit more analogous to the actual human evolutionary diet, but with allowances for sound modern insights into good nutrition. We can't assume, after all, that our Paleolithic forbears were vivacious, carefree, and mentally hardy individuals. Unlike us, their primary concern was simply staying alive long enough to get their genes into a successive generation and, perhaps, getting their offspring to reproductive maturity. We have so much more on our plate (pun intended!) in modern times.

You didn't derive that the Paleo diet shouldn't be called by that name. So, you should say I also agree. Everyone knows this.

The point of the Paleo diet is to eat more whole foods and not eat post-agriculture type foods.

My complaint of vegetarianism is why only not eat meat? Usually this is a morality standpoint so why are vegetarians still drinking milk and eating eggs? It seems a little half-***. Can you point out my problem here? I'm sure I'm missing something here.

dvdnvwls
03-02-14, 02:05 AM
My complaint of vegetarianism is why only not eat meat? Usually this is a morality standpoint so why are vegetarians still drinking milk and eating eggs? It seems a little half-***. Can you point out my problem here? I'm sure I'm missing something here.
Your problem is saying "Usually this is a morality standpoint". There are several other very important reasons to eat or not eat certain things.

RampantSpooning
03-02-14, 09:51 AM
I ate paleo for a while and definitely saw some benefits from eating that way, including less mental fogginess.

I'm not a paleo-nutcase like some people are. I don't really think it's a fad-diet in general because the principal is about eating healthy 'real' foods, not the processed garbage in today's supermarkets. This is a good thing. The problem comes because so many people who follow the diet ask firstly 'is Paleo?' rather than 'is it healthy?' So then it becomes kinda faddish.

For me it gave me a set of simple and generally good principals that drastically improved my diet, but over time I have adapted it to fit my lifestyle. For example I love to weight train and find it helps me ADHD but I need a high calorie diet with enough carbs at the right times to be able to commit to it properly. At first I would drink a litre is semi-skimmed milk pre-workout and a litre of full-fat milk post workout and this did the trick but I'm not great at tolerating milk so now I have a carb supplement before and after. Essentially I am having 50g of pure processed sugar before training and then again afterwards. 100g of processed sugar is in no way paleo, and under normal circumstances you really wouldn't want that amount of sugar floating around your veins -it's not healthy and would make you feel like ****, but after weight training your muscles suck in the carbs (and protein sups I take) for energy and repair. It's not paleo in any way, but is perfectly healthy for my lifestyle.

Generally, I still eat by a lot of the paleo guidelines and am healthier for it, but I change it where it suits me.

As an aside when I was eating strict paleo, my blood pressure and heart-rate dropped to a place where they were almost considered that of an elite-level athlete and I wasn't even doing a spot of cardio, although I was weight training.

Fuzzy12
03-02-14, 10:53 AM
You didn't derive that the Paleo diet shouldn't be called by that name. So, you should say I also agree. Everyone knows this.

The point of the Paleo diet is to eat more whole foods and not eat post-agriculture type foods.

My complaint of vegetarianism is why only not eat meat? Usually this is a morality standpoint so why are vegetarians still drinking milk and eating eggs? It seems a little half-***. Can you point out my problem here? I'm sure I'm missing something here.

I'm a vegetarian and I think your reasoning is a bit half ***** ;):)

As dvd pointed out vegetarianism isn't always about morality and it's almost never abouut absolute morality. Many people are veggies for health reasons and many others just don't like the taste of meat. Some are vgt for religious reasons and they are usually allowed to drink milk.

I don't eat meat because I like animals. It's not exactly a moral problem. I don't think there's anything wrong with eating meat ( there's something wrong with the way animals are treated before they are slaughtered but that's a different topic. ) but I just don't like doing it. It's like v often people with pet rabbits don't eat rabbit meat. II don't have any pets but this is how I feel about all animals.

I don't eat meat or fish but I do wear leather, use medication (and cosmetics I guess..not sure) that have been tested on animals etc. I see a conflict between using these products and being a vegetarian for moral reasons but not milk.

I do drink milk and eat eggs. I don't really understand how you can compare milk to meat when we are talking about morals. Animals don't have to die so that we can consume milk. Most eggs these days aren't fertilized so they wouldn't hatch into little chicks. I do prefer free range eggs though

kstate23
03-02-14, 08:09 PM
Your problem is saying "Usually this is a morality standpoint". There are several other very important reasons to eat or not eat certain things.

It isn't a problem because I was saying I know that it's usually the case, but was wondering when it isn't. I can ask questions, right? :)

kstate23
03-02-14, 08:15 PM
I'm a vegetarian and I think your reasoning is a bit half ***** ;):)

As dvd pointed out vegetarianism isn't always about morality and it's almost never abouut absolute morality. Many people are veggies for health reasons and many others just don't like the taste of meat. Some are vgt for religious reasons and they are usually allowed to drink milk.

I don't eat meat because I like animals. It's not exactly a moral problem. I don't think there's anything wrong with eating meat ( there's something wrong with the way animals are treated before they are slaughtered but that's a different topic. ) but I just don't like doing it. It's like v often people with pet rabbits don't eat rabbit meat. II don't have any pets but this is how I feel about all animals.

I don't eat meat or fish but I do wear leather, use medication (and cosmetics I guess..not sure) that have been tested on animals etc. I see a conflict between using these products and being a vegetarian for moral reasons but not milk.

I do drink milk and eat eggs. I don't really understand how you can compare milk to meat when we are talking about morals. Animals don't have to die so that we can consume milk. Most eggs these days aren't fertilized so they wouldn't hatch into little chicks. I do prefer free range eggs though

That's good to know, thanks for your point of view. I eat Paleo, and thus more meat, because I believe it is healthier. It's funny how subjective "healthy" can be because there are so many opinions.

Hopefully you're not eating a low-fat diet, too. They find a lot of gallbladder issues in vegetarians and vegans because the gallbladder becomes under-active making it easier for stones to accumulate and other problems. Also, vegetarians and vegans usually eat a lot of sugar. Sugar is a risk factor for cardiovascular (CV) disease. It's easy to prove this because just look at a diabetics arteries (I'm a vascular surgery researcher). Diabetics often get PAD and lose limbs as a result. Their vasculature is just awful, unfortunately.

There's no link between saturated fat and cholesterol consumption and health. CV disease has only gotten worse since carbohydrate consumption has increased in America.

So, the worst thing one can do with their health is eat too much sugar, smoke, and sit too much. And, don't do drugs! :)

Hope this helps someone.

Fuzzy12
03-02-14, 10:41 PM
That's good to know, thanks for your point of view. I eat Paleo, and thus more meat, because I believe it is healthier. It's funny how subjective "healthy" can be because there are so many opinions.

Hopefully you're not eating a low-fat diet, too. They find a lot of gallbladder issues in vegetarians and vegans because the gallbladder becomes under-active making it easier for stones to accumulate and other problems. Also, vegetarians and vegans usually eat a lot of sugar. Sugar is a risk factor for cardiovascular (CV) disease. It's easy to prove this because just look at a diabetics arteries (I'm a vascular surgery researcher). Diabetics often get PAD and lose limbs as a result. Their vasculature is just awful, unfortunately.

There's no link between saturated fat and cholesterol consumption and health. CV disease has only gotten worse since carbohydrate consumption has increased in America.

So, the worst thing one can do with their health is eat too much sugar, smoke, and sit too much. And, don't do drugs! :)

Hope this helps someone.

I do all these things :lol::doh:

I'm trying to get more proteins into my diet. It's mainly carbs right now and relatively low fat. Mainly complex carbs but still... I've never thought about gall bladder issues. Thanks for the hint :)

Canadian Mess
03-02-14, 11:07 PM
Saturated fat and cholesterol are not bad for you. They don't clog your arteries, that is the worst myth in science. Cholesterol repairs your arteries. When someone spikes their sugar too much, smokes, etc. it damages the endothelial lining of the arteries causing inflammation. Inflammation triggers the cholesterol to be transported there (by low-density lipoprotein (LDL)) to repair the inflammation.

When people keep smoking and/or spiking their sugar, cholesterol builds up and overtime, it can clog arteries.

If there are a lot of cops (cholesterol) in high crime areas (inflamed arteries) do you blame the cops for the crime or are the cops (cholesterol) there as a result of the crime (inflammation)?

Eating low carb doesn't mean one is going ketogenic so your brain will still get its precious glucose.

Watch the documentary "Fat Head." It's an easy to understand source for people that have a hard time grasping science.

Whoah!!!! Where on earth did I say cholesterol? You totally read wrong there bud- I said total fat and saturated fat, not cholesterol which we both know is made by the body, not from dietary sources. I know a lot about nutrition.. itís my degree and about to be my career. I am going to repeat what Iíve said before about high-fat, low carbohydrate diets. I donít know where everyone is getting the misinformation from, but itís still wrong no matter how many times itís believed.

ďA diet high in fat and low in carbohydrates is bad for you. Really bad. Basically, because when you break down the fat, it needs somehow to go through your blood stream. The fat is insoluble in water which is a big part of your blood. So, the way it can be transported is by proteins- they take the chylomicrons which are basically fat globules and repackage them and carry them by having fat balls covered in little soluble protein coatings going through your blood going to the places they need to go.

These "fat balls covered in little protein coatings" have varying densities based on what kind of fat is in the protein ball. VLDL and LDL (very low density lipoproteins and low density proteins) that are more from saturated fats are bad because when they strip off the coating, it hurts your blood vessel walls and it can accumulate.

This is called atheroscherosis which later on leads to things like cardiovascular disease because the scratches in the blood vessels walls get attacked by well-meaning body stuff, makes a plaque, gets calcified and blocks your circulation, can kill you.

Very high fat diets = a lot of bad VLDL and LDL especially saturated fat. Unsaturated fats are smaller (not saturated) and raise the amount of HDL which re-circulate the coating and extra stuff back to the liver= good.

Low carbohydrate= low sugar= low glucose your body doesn't like that. Your body runs on glucose, you breathe, sleep, eat, function on glucose. The body does not oxidize fat very well, it's not a good fuel source at all.

In other words, stick to your veggies, fruit, bread and meat and you are fine. No need for high fat, low carb diet.

kstate23
03-02-14, 11:11 PM
Whoah!!!! Where on earth did I say cholesterol? You totally read wrong there bud- I said total fat and saturated fat, not cholesterol which we both know is made by the body, not from dietary sources. I know a lot about nutrition.. itís my degree and about to be my career. I am going to repeat what Iíve said before about high-fat, low carbohydrate diets. I donít know where everyone is getting the misinformation from, but itís still wrong no matter how many times itís believed.

ďA diet high in fat and low in carbohydrates is bad for you. Really bad. Basically, because when you break down the fat, it needs somehow to go through your blood stream. The fat is insoluble in water which is a big part of your blood. So, the way it can be transported is by proteins- they take the chylomicrons which are basically fat globules and repackage them and carry them by having fat balls covered in little soluble protein coatings going through your blood going to the places they need to go.

These "fat balls covered in little protein coatings" have varying densities based on what kind of fat is in the protein ball. VLDL and LDL (very low density lipoproteins and low density proteins) that are more from saturated fats are bad because when they strip off the coating, it hurts your blood vessel walls and it can accumulate.

This is called atheroscherosis which later on leads to things like cardiovascular disease because the scratches in the blood vessels walls get attacked by well-meaning body stuff, makes a plaque, gets calcified and blocks your circulation, can kill you.

Very high fat diets = a lot of bad VLDL and LDL especially saturated fat. Unsaturated fats are smaller (not saturated) and raise the amount of HDL which re-circulate the coating and extra stuff back to the liver= good.

Low carbohydrate= low sugar= low glucose your body doesn't like that. Your body runs on glucose, you breathe, sleep, eat, function on glucose. The body does not oxidize fat very well, it's not a good fuel source at all.

In other words, stick to your veggies, fruit, bread and meat and you are fine. No need for high fat, low carb diet.

I know, I didn't read it wrong. I decided to talk about something else in my same post, relax buddy.

Canadian Mess
03-02-14, 11:16 PM
I know, I didn't read it wrong. I decided to talk about something else in my same post, relax buddy.

I want to make sure people know that, because misinformation is dangerous- people who do not know nutrition may think "low carb-high fat" diets are good and go with it, not realizing they are setting themselves up for higher chances of cardiovascular disease and obesity and a ton of other health problems. I can't relax knowing that, that's why I take it seriously.

And you definitely read wrong or at least took something the wrong way, because you went off about cholesterol, when what we are talking about is high saturated fat in a diet that comes along with a high protein diet and low carbohydrate sources (grains).

Regardless, the reason why the paleo diet is not exactly recommended is because it restricts you from eating cereal grains, legumes and dairy. if it wasn't for that, it wouldn't be so bad, some people take it to the extreme and eat a ton of meat,.... it's all relative, as long as people eat their vegetables, fruits, meats and dairy, things are fine. keeping their saturated fat and total fat down. the cereal grains contain a ton of b vitamins, among other things and the dairy has your calcium, vitamin d and vitamin a.

kstate23
03-02-14, 11:23 PM
Whoah!!!! Where on earth did I say cholesterol? You totally read wrong there bud- I said total fat and saturated fat, not cholesterol which we both know is made by the body, not from dietary sources. I know a lot about nutrition.. itís my degree and about to be my career. I am going to repeat what Iíve said before about high-fat, low carbohydrate diets. I donít know where everyone is getting the misinformation from, but itís still wrong no matter how many times itís believed.

ďA diet high in fat and low in carbohydrates is bad for you. Really bad. Basically, because when you break down the fat, it needs somehow to go through your blood stream. The fat is insoluble in water which is a big part of your blood. So, the way it can be transported is by proteins- they take the chylomicrons which are basically fat globules and repackage them and carry them by having fat balls covered in little soluble protein coatings going through your blood going to the places they need to go.

These "fat balls covered in little protein coatings" have varying densities based on what kind of fat is in the protein ball. VLDL and LDL (very low density lipoproteins and low density proteins) that are more from saturated fats are bad because when they strip off the coating, it hurts your blood vessel walls and it can accumulate.

This is called atheroscherosis which later on leads to things like cardiovascular disease because the scratches in the blood vessels walls get attacked by well-meaning body stuff, makes a plaque, gets calcified and blocks your circulation, can kill you.

Very high fat diets = a lot of bad VLDL and LDL especially saturated fat. Unsaturated fats are smaller (not saturated) and raise the amount of HDL which re-circulate the coating and extra stuff back to the liver= good.

Low carbohydrate= low sugar= low glucose your body doesn't like that. Your body runs on glucose, you breathe, sleep, eat, function on glucose. The body does not oxidize fat very well, it's not a good fuel source at all.

In other words, stick to your veggies, fruit, bread and meat and you are fine. No need for high fat, low carb diet.

It means nothing if nutrition is your degree. Well respected experts in the field who have actually done a lot with their careers have very differing opinions. Just because it's going to be your area of expertise doesn't mean you're right (and you're not even there yet). You're just listening to what people tell you. Way to think for yourself.

As far as your, saturated fat damaging the wall, that's ridiculous. LDL is not cholesterol, but a lipoprotein. It is supposed to deposit cholesterol on the wall to protect/repair the wall AFTER damage has already occurred. Inflammation occurs before the deposition of cholesterol. You're looking at the wrong player. Sugar spikes and smoking damage the wall before cholesterol is deposited.

This fear of cholesterol and saturated fats has been this myth since the 70's when a bad study was published. Any supporting data for this was performed on animals that aren't supposed to eat diets high in cholesterol and saturated fats (i.e., rabbits). Every since manufacturers started substituting sugar for fats in products like salad dressings, for example, it has made America's health worse.

As for you nutrition theories, I've seen the evidence. I'm a vascular surgery researcher. I dissect human arteries out and do analysis. There's a huge correlation between smoking and/or diabetes with vascular disease. Why else do diabetics get PAD or have kidney failure if it isn't because vascular disease. They have trouble controlling their sugar, sugar is toxic to the endothelial lining of the artery, inflammation occurs, LDL must try to protect/repair the artery so it deposits cholesterol.

Sorry that your investment in your nutrition degree won't pay off for you. They're teaching you bs, buddy ;)

kstate23
03-02-14, 11:26 PM
I want to make sure people know that, because misinformation is dangerous- people who do not know nutrition may think "low carb-high fat" diets are good and go with it, not realizing they are setting themselves up for higher chances of cardiovascular disease and obesity and a ton of other health problems. I can't relax knowing that, that's why I take it seriously.

And you definitely read wrong or at least took something the wrong way, because you went off about cholesterol, when what we are talking about is high saturated fat in a diet that comes along with a high protein diet and low carbohydrate sources.

You're wrong, I'm sorry. There is no good evidence that high fat, low carb causes CV disease. That is one of the biggest myths in science today. It's just a load of crap, and you keep eating it up.

Medicine recommends to eat these "heart healthy" foods, but they're wrong. It happens all the time. Watch the documentary "Fat Head." It's free on YouTube and it explains this very well.

kstate23
03-02-14, 11:27 PM
I want to make sure people know that, because misinformation is dangerous- people who do not know nutrition may think "low carb-high fat" diets are good and go with it, not realizing they are setting themselves up for higher chances of cardiovascular disease and obesity and a ton of other health problems. I can't relax knowing that, that's why I take it seriously.

And you definitely read wrong or at least took something the wrong way, because you went off about cholesterol, when what we are talking about is high saturated fat in a diet that comes along with a high protein diet and low carbohydrate sources (grains).

Regardless, the reason why the paleo diet is not exactly recommended is because it restricts you from eating cereal grains, legumes and dairy. if it wasn't for that, it wouldn't be so bad, some people take it to the extreme and eat a ton of meat,.... it's all relative, as long as people eat their vegetables, fruits, meats and dairy, things are fine. keeping their saturated fat and total fat down. the cereal grains contain a ton of b vitamins, among other things and the dairy has your calcium, vitamin d and vitamin a.

Please watch, it'll open your eyes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs

Canadian Mess
03-02-14, 11:30 PM
Please watch, it'll open your eyes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs

I'll stick to research studies and science, I trust them more than documentaries.

kstate23
03-02-14, 11:33 PM
I'll stick to research studies and science, I trust them more than documentaries.

Please, cite some credible research that proves this diet is bad for humans. No rat, mice, rabbit, etc. studies.

execfunc
03-03-14, 11:01 PM
You didn't derive that the Paleo diet shouldn't be called by that name. So, you should say I also agree. Everyone knows this.

I can't quite parse what you're trying to say here (I've never claimed to be the brightest star in the sky!), so, accordingly, I can't offer much of a response.

The point of the Paleo diet is to eat more whole foods and not eat post-agriculture type foods.

Yeah, I understand what it is. I read a bit about it out of interest when I first heard of it. I also think it's a good idea to eat more whole foods and to stay away from the vast majority of modern comestibles. I'm pretty sure I first came around to this thinking while reading something by Ray Kurzweil. Over the years, I've implemented it, to varying degrees of success. I've been doing really well with it lately, as I've been managing my ADHD symptoms effectively for the first time in my life. This really helps me to follow through with changes in lifestyle.

My complaint of vegetarianism is why only not eat meat? Usually this is a morality standpoint so why are vegetarians still drinking milk and eating eggs? It seems a little half-***. Can you point out my problem here? I'm sure I'm missing something here.

I'm not quite sure what you have to complain about. I'm not complaining about your diet. I think I was mistaken (not an uncommon occurrence), but I thought we were just discussing and comparing dietary habits. So, no, I won't be pointing out any of your problems. That's simply not polite, anyway! :-D

You seem kind of confrontational, so if I said something that offended to you, please understand that it was inadvertent and I'm sorry. Anyway, my diet certainly does have a moral component, as well as those relating directly to health. I actually don't eat eggs, nor do I consume dairy, with one exception: I have one cup of drip coffee each morning (and, sometimes, to celebrate the end of the week, one on Friday night after dinner), and I add enough organic 1% or 2% milk (depending on what's on sale) to lighten the coffee a bit. If I could afford a good espresso machine, I'd just take it black.

Anyway, best of luck with your diet. I hope you live long and live well.

Incidentally, I just ordered a really nice juicer. Can't wait to try it out with some good produce!

Blackstar
03-04-14, 04:55 AM
Saturated fat and cholesterol are not bad for you. They don't clog your arteries, that is the worst myth in science.

That's kind of true. They don't clog your arteries like a blocked sewer pipe.

However, there is evidence that eating a lot of animal fats, like butter, ghee, tallow and lard contribute to atherosclerosis and / or increase risk of heart attack in animals. They are high in certain saturated fats and cholesterol.

Note that not all saturated fats are bad. There is also evidence from animal models that cocoa butter is much less atherogenic that the other animal sourced saturated fats in general and coconut oil 's effect depends on the animal tested. In one case it was one of the most damaging, but in another it was better than animal saturated fats, but worse than cocoa butter.

Some generalizations can be made, but to be fair, each oil or fat should be weighed on it's own merits.

Same with other foods.

kstate23
03-06-14, 11:49 PM
I can't quite parse what you're trying to say here (I've never claimed to be the brightest star in the sky!), so, accordingly, I can't offer much of a response.



Yeah, I understand what it is. I read a bit about it out of interest when I first heard of it. I also think it's a good idea to eat more whole foods and to stay away from the vast majority of modern comestibles. I'm pretty sure I first came around to this thinking while reading something by Ray Kurzweil. Over the years, I've implemented it, to varying degrees of success. I've been doing really well with it lately, as I've been managing my ADHD symptoms effectively for the first time in my life. This really helps me to follow through with changes in lifestyle.



I'm not quite sure what you have to complain about. I'm not complaining about your diet. I think I was mistaken (not an uncommon occurrence), but I thought we were just discussing and comparing dietary habits. So, no, I won't be pointing out any of your problems. That's simply not polite, anyway! :-D

You seem kind of confrontational, so if I said something that offended to you, please understand that it was inadvertent and I'm sorry. Anyway, my diet certainly does have a moral component, as well as those relating directly to health. I actually don't eat eggs, nor do I consume dairy, with one exception: I have one cup of drip coffee each morning (and, sometimes, to celebrate the end of the week, one on Friday night after dinner), and I add enough organic 1% or 2% milk (depending on what's on sale) to lighten the coffee a bit. If I could afford a good espresso machine, I'd just take it black.

Anyway, best of luck with your diet. I hope you live long and live well.

Incidentally, I just ordered a really nice juicer. Can't wait to try it out with some good produce!

You call me out for being confrontational, but that's much better than your passive-aggressive approach :)

Please read this concise article (it was recently published):
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/273528.php

jodyrew
06-03-14, 08:25 AM
I am thinking about doing the diet again, I wanted to hear what others think.



Just make sure that it coincides with your specific type of diet. There can be lots of variation in Paleo and I'm sure you'll find what's best for you. Been with it for several years now and I feel great! Hope it will to you too :)

addthree
06-03-14, 10:39 AM
Not a joke the creator of the paleo diet got sick from his diet. Its very unhealthy. Like I said my friends mom knows this guy. Has known him for years. The best diet is a balanced diet with lots of variety. If you want a path to follow try Ayurveda.

Slybfoxx
06-18-14, 12:38 AM
I am trying to be much more healthy now but I do think high protein diet low in carbs may make me less symptomatic. It is working for me, but I won't stay on a mostly fish and a few veggie diet too long, a month to cut off any extra fat, but boy do I feel good doing this diet.

Some people argue that the brain works better on ketones, that is probably a case by case basis. Healthy and balanced is likely best but this once in a while to stay lean and clear out the sugar doesn't seem like a bad idea...