View Full Version : A Tree Brain


mildadhd
02-27-14, 04:18 PM
http://www.kodeescanoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Kodees-Canoe-Rings-In-Trees-Image3.png







http://www.kodeescanoe.com/discover-rings-in-the-wood-of-a-fallen-tree/

i!i

mildadhd
02-27-14, 04:23 PM
"This tree is 10 years old."

How old is the tree ring, closest to the bark?

How old is the ring at the center of the tree.?







i!i

mildadhd
02-27-14, 04:24 PM
http://anneortelee.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/tree_rings.v2.jpg

eclectic beagle
02-27-14, 05:06 PM
Doesn't an aged brain resemble a forest?

mildadhd
02-27-14, 10:31 PM
Doesn't an aged brain resemble a forest?

I'm not sure?

Would that make the lower midbrain area, the earth's core?










i!i

mildadhd
02-27-14, 10:53 PM
I don't think a tree is a brain.

The cortex would be the bark, the wood at the center of the tree, would be the midbrain/brainstem area, I think?

If it was?


The center wood ring of the tree lived approx 10 years.

The outside wood ring of the tree lived approx 1 year.







i!i

mildadhd
02-27-14, 11:19 PM
There are some differences. :)

Trees drink through the roots.

I would have assumed the roots would have been the spine area (spineless version of course) , and the earth the body?



Lots to learn.









i!i

doiadhd
02-28-14, 01:38 AM
if the ganglia/interphalamus,where the earths core,
the next layer of brain could be the,hard rock,with molten
lava penetrating through it. . .volcanos would be zits,forage,trees
and the like,just hair. . .a nose would be a volcano also,all that molten
mucous. ..

tree brain better

humans learn fastest and adapt fastest during the first few years,
and can alter lives,depending on whether a good child hood or bad,
like the centre of a tree,the core of life. .

scars through life,for trees and the human brain,ie,a bad
experience through youth,can leave mental,developmental
scaring,as seen on the tree diagram. . .

never heals,just gets hidden away by layers


the bark is the outer most part,so that would be the
lymbic system
which is there for protection

branches are connections,to the like leafy stories,we
have experienced. . .conkers are bad stories,nuts also. .

the roots are the past stories,feeding the new stories
same as our experiences,influence our next chapters,new leaves. .

the new stories,fall to the ground,rot into the earth,and into the roots,
that then feed the new stories of our lives. . .

some animals take our stories,for nesting or eating,stealing
our stories,and pretending its theirs. . .

i feel like a lone tree,with one baby tree beside me,have
all these lumber jacks chopping at me,but to no avail,just little
chips off an old bloke. . .my little tree is watching and laughing,and
i look at him and laugh with him

when i do fall,it won't be from an axe or chain saw,when
i do fall,i will tombstone,shattering splinters like shrapnel from
a bomb,and then there will be little splinters of me in all
you lumber jacks. . .
my fallen tree will then feed my sons roots.

sorry,had a little wonder around then,nearly got lost
in the forest,from all them lumber jacks barking up the wrong tree:-)

mildadhd
02-28-14, 02:01 AM
http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/25/112925-004-03EEE81E.gif


http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/25/112925-004-03EEE81E.gif

mildadhd
02-28-14, 02:37 AM
http://www.umm.edu/graphics/images/en/18117.jpg

http://multiple-sclerosis-research.blogspot.ca/2012/09/research-cortial-lesions-are-less-in.html

mildadhd
02-28-14, 02:56 AM
if the ganglia/interphalamus,where the earths core,
the next layer of brain could be the,hard rock,with molten
lava penetrating through it. . .volcanos would be zits,forage,trees
and the like,just hair. . .a nose would be a volcano also,all that molten
mucous. ..

tree brain better

humans learn fastest and adapt fastest during the first few years,
and can alter lives,depending on whether a good child hood or bad,
like the centre of a tree,the core of life. .

scars through life,for trees and the human brain,ie,a bad
experience through youth,can leave mental,developmental
scaring,as seen on the tree diagram. . .

never heals,just gets hidden away by layers


the bark is the outer most part,so that would be the
lymbic system
which is there for protection

branches are connections,to the like leafy stories,we
have experienced. . .conkers are bad stories,nuts also. .

the roots are the past stories,feeding the new stories
same as our experiences,influence our next chapters,new leaves. .

the new stories,fall to the ground,rot into the earth,and into the roots,
that then feed the new stories of our lives. . .

some animals take our stories,for nesting or eating,stealing
our stories,and pretending its theirs. . .

i feel like a lone tree,with one baby tree beside me,have
all these lumber jacks chopping at me,but to no avail,just little
chips off an old bloke. . .my little tree is watching and laughing,and
i look at him and laugh with him

when i do fall,it won't be from an axe or chain saw,when
i do fall,i will tombstone,shattering splinters like shrapnel from
a bomb,and then there will be little splinters of me in all
you lumber jacks. . .
my fallen tree will then feed my sons roots.

sorry,had a little wonder around then,nearly got lost
in the forest,from all them lumber jacks barking up the wrong tree:-)

Encore! Showers with gold coins. :)

(ouch!)





i!i

doiadhd
03-02-14, 05:44 PM
i,m spent after that. . .

made sense when i wrote it lol

mildadhd
03-04-14, 12:17 AM
In the human infant, brain stem capacities are more mature than those of the higher forebrain regions.


Kapit, Macey, Meisami, "The Physiology Coloring Book" Nervous System, Brain Structure & General Function, P 83.







i!i

SB_UK
03-04-14, 05:15 AM
There are some differences. :)

Trees drink through the roots.

I would have assumed the roots would have been the spine area (spineless version of course) , and the earth the body?

Lots to learn.

i!i

http://www.healer.ch/Chakraperson.jpg

better version - http://www.healer.ch/ChakraRefEnglish.pdf

SB_UK
03-04-14, 05:58 AM
Pretty similar pattern (ie from root) presented by a totally different school of thought.
http://www.chilel.com/images/DantianSideway.jpg

So - we 'drink' through our roots <- ? prostrate gland ?

The central vertical line representing the 'drinking' (power) - which gives rise to / projects the bilateral symmetry of left and right side which we think of as man.

SB_UK
03-04-14, 06:55 AM
The very special points along that axis are root (prostate gland), sacral plexus (adrenal gland), thyroid gland, pineal gland ... ...
So - we've seen before how a tree structure (eg lung) can be formed from 24 bifurcations - and how (eg Lorenz attractor) - these 24 bifurcations can be seen to assemble a torus - which can be vizualized as a Mobius strip.
And how there's a clear Mobius strip in the image above - rotated at the thyroid gland.

So
(|)
(|)
where the straight line can be imagined as a () in another dimension ie
()
()() = Boy's surface
()

However in our reality - this is the shape:
(|)
(|)
as clearly visible in the image above -- post 15.

So - the nature of reality - will be towards all aspects representing electromagnetic tori hanging off a 'hidden' power dimension (http://qwertyuiopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/indra-composite1-425.png) <- Indra's net.

-*-

Summarising

We are (in effect) an EM doughnut (in phenomenological reality) suspended (projected) by an energetic flow which is orthogonal to the two dimensions forming the 2 parts ie tree trunk and tree crown which defines us.
This is - in effect the om symbol - and the basic structure can be seen (as we describe) - by simply looking at the magnetic field of a bar magnet.

The all important point is the point of cross-over at centre of bar magnet - which represents in man = on one side - the prostate gland and on the other side - from the 2/3 (posts 14,15) pictures above - the site of the crown chakra.

-*-

Even more simply - all structures in reality bear a manufactured bilateral symmetry forming a torus/doughnut - projected by an inner (hidden) dimension.

-*-

Even yet more simply - the picture linked to above for Indra's net (http://qwertyuiopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/indra-composite1-425.png) is essentially correct - with the only additional bit required being that the tori can consist of multiple layers eg [((())) or (((((((((())))))))))] onion - where each layer represents a previous abstraction/evolutionary layer.

Tempted to draw the net with just 1 line ie ---(())---((()))--- and so it continues ie just 1 interconnection.

SB_UK
03-04-14, 07:44 AM
So - all that's to be added is that evolution represents the transition from abstraction layer to abstraction layer.

Why does the fundamental substrate (the straight line) bother ?
I don't think it has any choice ... if it can - it will.
A little like a skipping rope - put any extra energy into the rope - and the rope'll take up the energy as increased complexity.

Why is there evolution on planet Earth alone - as opposed to everywhere ?
Because there are conditions - evolution only if it's possible.

eg
http://gsabulletin.gsapubs.org/content/82/9/2433.abstract

The mass extinctions of marine and land animals at the close of the Paleozoic and Mesozoic coincide in large part with this renewed reversal activity. If the magnetic field reversals exert a selective force then the removal of this force for tens of millions of years may allow the development of many potentially reversal susceptible species that will be vulnerable to the renewal of frequent reversals. And what's driving evolution - particularly on planet Earth ?
This represents the planetary magnetic field, field reversal and exposure to solar (gamma) radiation in our environmental context.

We've the conditions just right for evolution to occur - and so it does.

So - polar reversal/gamma ray deselection of 'sub-optimal' species and selection/driving emergence of others.

Additional notes
-1- Polar reversal approaching (references on Internet)
-2- Climate change a sign of imminent polar reversal (references on Internet)
-3- Magnetic field weakens as prelude to reversal and occurring currently (both ideas - references on Internet)
-4- Evolution of man no longer at genomic level (this has completed) - but more likely at level of melanin (neuromelanin) eg substantia nigra - where we appear to be approaching freedom from the need to eat ie

A Tree Brain

Melanin takes the place of Chlorophyll as our solar power generator - as we take a leaf from the crown of trees.

What's next for man (evolutionarily) ?
Increasing informational entropy - suggests increase in cerebellar sensitivity to allow man to experience increased quality/resolution of life.
A bit like shifting from a 3 Kbps to a 256 Kbps MP3 track - the increase in informational entropy isn't in place in reality - until there's some structure (within the cerebellum) to recognize the increased resolution of music (information).

To optimise quality of life through [informational] quality in life.

We get to 'ditch' the irritating analytical mind for sensory quality - vedanta - the end of knowledge -> beginning of understanding.

Evolution operates to weave an exponentially more complex tapestry - where the tapestry is woven in independent abstraction layers - from the centre out - the shape grows exponentially more complex - as evolution's imperative is expressed.

sarek
03-04-14, 08:12 AM
The structure and ontology of a tree, in all dimensions, serves to illustrate the sameness of basic principles which govern the cosmos at all its levels. As in all things, you can see a universe in a tree, and a tree in a universe.

This notion can for instance be seen in the Norse idea of Yggdrasil, the world tree.

SB_UK
03-04-14, 10:21 AM
Searching for Yggdrasil - we find ... ...
this image (http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/329/f/7/yggdrasil_with_ravens_by_filigreephantasms-d4h86fw.jpg) (too big to include) of a tree

which is clearly an egg shape ie
/__
/__\ concave
_\/ convex

Which is the exact same structure as the Tree of Life:

CONCAVE
http://kabbalisticyoga.com/files/2012/07/Hebrewtree-copy-212x300.jpg
CONVEX

Which is identical to the relationship between the duals of dodecahedron and icosahedron ie

| dodecahedral side
| > icosahedral dual to dodecahedron

And we can see attempts to describe human beings using the tree eg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQR4l0FTbO7OjmgY3wYSzuY1Iy7O-9fUI6Kb8bh-EkfQwrJon1

- and from a third ancient culture - we see 'root' appear (10) once again.

mildadhd
03-04-14, 01:43 PM
Thanks


In botany, phyllotaxis or phyllotaxy is the arrangement of leaves on a plant stem (from Ancient Greek phýllon "leaf" and táxis "arrangement").[1] Phyllotactic spirals form a distinctive class of patterns in nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllotaxis


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/Aloe_polyphylla_1.jpg/704px-Aloe_polyphylla_1.jpg

:)

mildadhd
03-04-14, 02:12 PM
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSlPxbr5XnFjoh6j1R03Dic0SREkTJ-y6Ux8KWRwP8EQSWm3_F9cQ



i!i

mildadhd
03-04-14, 02:15 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Fermat%27s_spiral.svg/120px-Fermat%27s_spiral.svg.png

mildadhd
03-04-14, 02:21 PM
I'm learning lots of stuff!

Thanks!


Peripherals

doiadhd
03-05-14, 12:09 AM
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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@@@@@
@@
@

Its a www.hirl pool/tornado.com!

sarahsweets
03-05-14, 06:31 AM
So - we 'drink' through our roots <- ? prostrate gland ?

The central vertical line representing the 'drinking' (power) - which gives rise to / projects the bilateral symmetry of left and right side which we think of as man.

I know I drink through my prostate gland. ;)

Lunacie
03-05-14, 10:52 AM
Pretty similar pattern (ie from root) presented by a totally different school of thought.
http://www.chilel.com/images/DantianSideway.jpg

So - we 'drink' through our roots <- ? prostrate gland ?

The central vertical line representing the 'drinking' (power) - which gives rise to / projects the bilateral symmetry of left and right side which we think of as man.

Women do not have a prostrate gland. Yet we also have a root chakra through

which we can draw energy from Mother Earth and be grounded when we feel

ourselves becoming "spacey."

The base or root chakra is simply the base of the spine - where the spine

begins it's journey to the head.

mildadhd
03-05-14, 05:04 PM
Ultrastructure of the normal adult human female prostate gland (Skene's gland).



Abstract
The predominant cells of female prostatic glands lining their lumen were found to be tall cylindrical secretory cells with short stubby microvilli, protuberances of the apical cytoplasm, and with bleb formation. Abundant secretory vacuoles and granules, rough endoplasmic reticulum, developed Golgi complexes and numerous mitochondria are characteristic of their active secretory configuration with apocrine (apical blebs) and merocrine (secretory vacuoles and granules) type of secretion. Basal (reserve) cells were seen to be located between the secretory (luminal) cells and the basement membrane. Their ground cytoplasm is dense with rough endoplasmic reticulum and mitochondria. Their nuclei, unlike those of secretory cells, possess more peripheral condensed chromatin, denser dispersed chromatin and sporadic nucleoli. Besides the two basic types of mature prostatic cells intermediary cells were also seen, located between the basal and secretory cells or in their close vicinity. Their cytoplasm exhibits numerous profiles of rough endoplasmic reticulum and free ribosomes. Secretory vacuoles and granules were mostly practically absent (type 1 intermediary cells) so that they resembled basal (reserve) cells. In some of them, however, as in secretory cells, such secretory elements do gradually appear (type 2 intermediary cells). The finding of intermediary cells in the lining of prostatic glands supports the role of basal (reserve) cells in the renewal of cells in glands of the female prostate. The first ultrastructural analysis of the normal female prostate performed by transmission electron microscopy showed that, as in the postpubertal male, the prostatic glands in the adult female display mature secretory and basal cells. The results of the presented study further corroborate the contemporary concept of the female prostate as a functional genitourinary organ.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10603093

Lunacie
03-05-14, 05:17 PM
Yes, I know about the Skene's gland, but not every woman has one,

and even if they did that is not the same thing as the root or base chakra.

The throat chakra is not the thyroid. The crown chakra is not the brain.

I'm not trying to tell you how your tree brain works,

I'm just pointing out that the Skene's gland and the prostrate gland have

nothing to do with the very old system known as the chakras

and the movement of energy in the body.

mildadhd
03-06-14, 03:54 PM
How does a tree pee?




i!i

Lunacie
03-06-14, 04:16 PM
How does a tree pee?




i!i


The sap?

.

mildadhd
03-06-14, 04:45 PM
e·vap·o·tran·spi·ra·tion (ĭ-văp′ō-trăn′spə-rā′shən)
n.
1. The combined processes of evaporation, sublimation, and transpiration of the water from the earth's surface into the atmosphere.
2. The total amount of water transferred from the earth to the atmosphere.




http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Tree+sweat

mildadhd
03-06-14, 05:04 PM
There are two situations in which the nerves will stimulate the sweat glands, causing perspiration: during physical heat and during emotional stress.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspiration

Lunacie
03-06-14, 05:23 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspiration

They forgot one, menopausal hot flashes/sweating.

mildadhd
03-07-14, 03:56 PM
They forgot one, menopausal hot flashes/sweating.

Interesting point.

There is definitely more than one way heat is created.

I would assume that heat would also be involved in emotional stress sweating?

The citation research in the wiki link seems to focus more on where the area of the body sweating during emotional stress?

This all very neat.

It would be interesting to know the affective effects of distress and eustress on tree perspiration?

Makes me curious to know more about to topic of music and growing vegetation, etc?

There is also a theme of some human diversity, based on gender spectrum?

Fascinating stuff.

Thanks.

mildadhd
03-08-14, 04:03 PM
The very special points along that axis are root (prostate gland), sacral plexus (adrenal gland), thyroid gland, pineal gland ... ...
So - we've seen before how a tree structure (eg lung) can be formed from 24 bifurcations - and how (eg Lorenz attractor) - these 24 bifurcations can be seen to assemble a torus - which can be vizualized as a Mobius strip.
And how there's a clear Mobius strip in the image above - rotated at the thyroid gland.

So
(|)
(|)
where the straight line can be imagined as a () in another dimension ie
()
()() = Boy's surface
()

However in our reality - this is the shape:
(|)
(|)
as clearly visible in the image above -- post 15.

So - the nature of reality - will be towards all aspects representing electromagnetic tori hanging off a 'hidden' power dimension (http://qwertyuiopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/indra-composite1-425.png) <- Indra's net.

-*-

Summarising

We are (in effect) an EM doughnut (in phenomenological reality) suspended (projected) by an energetic flow which is orthogonal to the two dimensions forming the 2 parts ie tree trunk and tree crown which defines us.
This is - in effect the om symbol - and the basic structure can be seen (as we describe) - by simply looking at the magnetic field of a bar magnet.

The all important point is the point of cross-over at centre of bar magnet - which represents in man = on one side - the prostate gland and on the other side - from the 2/3 (posts 14,15) pictures above - the site of the crown chakra.

-*-

Even more simply - all structures in reality bear a manufactured bilateral symmetry forming a torus/doughnut - projected by an inner (hidden) dimension.

-*-

Even yet more simply - the picture linked to above for Indra's net (http://qwertyuiopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/indra-composite1-425.png) is essentially correct - with the only additional bit required being that the tori can consist of multiple layers eg [((())) or (((((((((())))))))))] onion - where each layer represents a previous abstraction/evolutionary layer.

Tempted to draw the net with just 1 line ie ---(())---((()))--- and so it continues ie just 1 interconnection.




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Active_electro.png
Active electrolocation. Conductive objects concentrate the field and resistive objects spread the field.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroreception#Electrolocation

Unmanagable
03-10-14, 04:07 AM
An interesting tidbit of tree related fascination:

What tree rings sound like played on a record player:

http://www.livescience.com/33673-tree-rings-sound-record-player.html

Artist Bartholomäus Traubeck has custom-built a record player that is able to "play" cross-sectional slices of tree trunks. The result is his art piece "Years," an audio recording of tree rings being read by a computer and turned into music, much like a record player's needle reads the grooves on an LP. The tree rings are actually being translated into the language of music, rather than sounding musical in and of themselves.

SB_UK
03-10-14, 06:50 AM
https://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Sect20/Colliding%20galaxies.jpg
http://images.meredith.com/diy/images/2009/01/p_SBI_034_05.jpg

Trees !!

SB_UK
03-10-14, 07:16 AM
http://marksoderstrom.com/images/PARALLAX/Divining.jpg

So - we can imagine a 3 pronged branch - and the loose and tight knot - like the 2 shapes of galaxies - can be seen to 'collide' to make 1 branch.
A cross section through point of intersection. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Om.svg/220px-Om.svg.png)

Now - imagine the true north/south and the magnetic north south poles with (magnetic fields)

|||/)
(/|
and we have the butterfly (body in black and wings in red/blue)... have the 3 finger rule:
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- MOTION (longitudinal wave) with EM representing transverse wave.

SB_UK
03-10-14, 07:52 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Active_electro.png


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroreception#Electrolocation

fat's a resistor ... ... people are getting fatter and our planetary EM is changing
- as suggested here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2545465/Forget-global-warming-worry-MAGNETOSPHERE-Earths-magnetic-field-collapsing-affect-climate-wipe-power-grids.html

"overdue a flip"

SB_UK
03-10-14, 10:57 AM
I think an all important question of the mind (brain) might be - how much of the stuff we cram into our mind is useful ?
Fetch water (clean) and chop wood (sustainably) is about all we need to do - and yet we pollute the water and burn down the trees without a thought as to their replacement.

I'm not entirely sure that the human mind knows particularly much - and the overwhelming majority of what we do know - is simply a sticking plaster solution to some other problem we've created.

Lawyers, soldiers, police, politicians, bankers, financial sector workers ... ... and most else just carrying the error of forcing a hierarchical society built on selective material world ownership.

mildadhd
03-10-14, 01:39 PM
I think an all important question of the mind (brain) might be - how much of the stuff we cram into our mind is useful ?
Fetch water (clean) and chop wood (sustainably) is about all we need to do - and yet we pollute the water and burn down the trees without a thought as to their replacement.

I'm not entirely sure that the human mind knows particularly much - and the overwhelming majority of what we do know - is simply a sticking plaster solution to some other problem we've created.

Lawyers, soldiers, police, politicians, bankers, financial sector workers ... ... and most else just carrying the error of forcing a hierarchical society built on selective material world ownership.

I think some of this will change when people learn that basic emotion behavior systems are the foundation of all minds.


Laymans

mildadhd
03-10-14, 02:10 PM
In all people, basic emotional instincts precedes experience (mind)

At birth "emotional" consciousness is more mature than "cognitive" consciousness.

Higher cognitive consciousness, is built upon lower emotional consciousness with experience.


Laymans (learning, please leave room for error)

mildadhd
03-10-14, 02:23 PM
The outer rings of the tree, are built upon the core of the tree.




Peripherals

Stevuke79
03-10-14, 02:31 PM
And in my case they are both made of wood...
So it's a pretty good analogy.

mildadhd
03-10-14, 02:45 PM
And in my case they are both made of wood...
So it's a pretty good analogy.


Me to.

Hardwood. :D

SB_UK
03-10-14, 03:55 PM
I think some of this will change when people learn that basic emotion behavior systems are the foundation of all minds.


Laymans

/|\ appears to be the basic e-motion behaviour system of everything including minds - because minds are a small part of everything

~aka~
;):eek::p

ps I think the magnetic poles are due to flip, and that's what's meant by the 'flood' analogy - an 'event' which brings in something completely new (emergence).

SB_UK
03-10-14, 04:13 PM
;):eek::p


i!i

... need more characters ...

mildadhd
03-10-14, 09:16 PM
SB_UK

Thanks, I think you are right, basic emotions are parts, "at the foundation of the mind". (if I understand correctly)

(19:30) Including, talking about the mind.

The mind is what the internal experiences are, and emotions are very important parts of the mind.

I would even argue that maybe our mind is built upon emotions.

And the reason I say that is, that if we harm the emotional systems dramatically, consciousness itself begins to disappear.

And that is a very dramatic demonstration.

If you damage those deep medial parts of the brain consciousness disappears.

Everyone agrees about that.

One possible conclusion is that the mind itself, is fundamentally feeling affective.


Why do rats laugh? (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ICY6-7hJo) Interview with Jaak Panksepp








i!i i!i

mildadhd
03-10-14, 09:49 PM
Question?



If the ten year old tree, in post #1 (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1621895&postcount=1), grew to approx, 100 feet.

Halfway up the tree, would the tree have only 5 rings?



Peripherals

mildadhd
03-11-14, 01:16 AM
http://www.ploscollections.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0021236.g003&representation=PNG_I

FIGURE 3: Nested hierarchies of control within the brain.

A summary of the hierarchical bottom-up and top-down (circular) causation that is proposed to operate in every primal emotional system of the brain.

The schematic summarizes the hypothesis that in order for higher MindBrain functions to mature and function (via bottom-up control), they have to be integrated with the lower BrainMind functions, with primary-processes being depicted as squares (red), secondary-process learning as circles (green), and tertiary processes, by rectangles (blue).

The color-coding aims to convey the manner in which nested-hierarchies are integrating lower brain functions into higher brain functions to eventually exert top-down regulatory control (adapted from Northoff, et al. [47]).

doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0021236.g003



http://www.ploscollections.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0021236;jsessi onid=AD13490132E599FB6413BDA3EB45FF87


i!i

SB_UK
03-11-14, 06:38 AM
learning in animals - can be sophisticated - wired to reward / avoiding pain.

learning in man - can be more sophisticated - wired to reward / avoiding pain.

Thing is though - that if humans behave like animals and pursue as much reward / pain avoidance as possible - then there'll be little reward / much pain for the very, very vast majority.

This idea is presented in the Occupy Movement's 'we are the 99%'.

-*-

The complete human mind is able to see the repercussions of behaving like the reptilian mind (the generally rich, cheating, psychopathic type which is successful in acquisition of money, power ... ...) ... ... however we run into a problem when we see that the form of education which the majority are exposed to, breaks rather than constructs the human mind towards understanding the repercussions of one's actions.

Education should be built around an exercsie in synthesizing rather than fragmenting information together - so that the system of the Universe (and beyond) makes sense -
whereupon we find - that there's just 1 system in play /|) - the geometry of transcendence.

SB_UK
03-11-14, 07:13 AM
I think that all we need to do - to understand learning in man, and learning in animals - is list out what animals and then man 'appears' to be motivated towards.
And all that we'll find - is that human beings are a peculiar mix of 2 contradictory reward systems - one being a 'hierarchical' system of man, and the other being an 'egalitarian' system of man ... ... that the 'hierarchical' system is more ancient ... ... that the 'egalitarian' system is just beginning to rise to prominence
- but where the egalitarian system only applies to the level (material world) in which the hierarchical system (animals live in the material world) operates.

There's nothing to stop people being at the top of the hierarchy in non-material world (ie non-limiting) aspects of life eg writing novels, playing an instrument, running marathons ... ... all we're looking at - is the hierarchy shifting from (in the animal kingdom) material world ownership and hence limiting to any non-limiting domain.

Of course - being at the top of a material world hierarchy is so much easier for the talentless thugs that occupy these positions - all they're required to be is psychopathic ie without a conscience (ie without a mind (ie without the capacity to see the repercussions of their actions (which is what a complete mind does))).

mildadhd
03-11-14, 11:39 AM
All mammals researched have the same basic primary emotional systems. (primary processes)

The topics are very complex, part of this thread is to note that all mammals have the same 7 basic primary emotional systems originating in the lower brain stem "core" area.

Because of the complexity I want to focus on understanding the basics first.

Understanding the foundation of the lower BrainMind processes at birth, that the higher MindBrain processes are are built upon.

With age (maturity) the MindBrain from the top down does influence the primary processes, like the higher branches, leaves, etc are essential for maintaining healthy development of the trees core.

But without the primary core of the tree, the higher areas of the tree will never get a chance to develop.



These primary emotional systems that originate in the lower brain stem area, are more mature/developed at birth, than higher secondary and tertiary processes at birth.

See post #13 (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1622997&postcount=13).

We get AD(H)D before the age of 7.

Understanding that the BrainMind consciousness, is primarily affective consciousness at birth, and cognitive consciousness is built upon affective conscious is extremely important to understanding development BrainMind of infants.



Higher ground up and higher top down, secondary and tertiary processes are also extremely important.

I am not disputing what is know about top down processes.

But primary processes originating in the lower brain stem area, like the core ring of the tree, are required for the rest of the BrainMind/MindBrain to be built upon.

Emotions are involved with all 3 Primary, secondary and tertiary processes.

But raw emotions originally originate in the lower brain stem areas.

I am learning to discuss these topics, and may be making some mistakes, but I don't think the basics are in doubt.

And appreciate the help discussing/learning the topics.

Peripherals Laymans

mildadhd
03-11-14, 12:10 PM
http://www.intechopen.com/source/html/41876/media/image9.png

mildadhd
03-11-14, 12:48 PM
http://www.intechopen.com/source/html/41876/media/image9.png



Autonoetic ?
Noetic ?
Anoetic ?

See thread "..anoetic, neotic and autonoetic consciousness" (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1599261#post1599261)



i!i

mildadhd
03-11-14, 02:14 PM
I think that all we need to do - to understand learning in man, and learning in animals - is list out what animals and then man 'appears' to be motivated towards.
And all that we'll find - is that human beings are a peculiar mix of 2 contradictory reward systems - one being a 'hierarchical' system of man, and the other being an 'egalitarian' system of man ... ... that the 'hierarchical' system is more ancient ... ... that the 'egalitarian' system is just beginning to rise to prominence
- but where the egalitarian system only applies to the level (material world) in which the hierarchical system (animals live in the material world) operates.

There's nothing to stop people being at the top of the hierarchy in non-material world (ie non-limiting) aspects of life eg writing novels, playing an instrument, running marathons ... ... all we're looking at - is the hierarchy shifting from (in the animal kingdom) material world ownership and hence limiting to any non-limiting domain.

Of course - being at the top of a material world hierarchy is so much easier for the talentless thugs that occupy these positions - all they're required to be is psychopathic ie without a conscience (ie without a mind (ie without the capacity to see the repercussions of their actions (which is what a complete mind does))).

A mature higher MindBrain inhibits lower BrainMind.

Immature higher MindBrain has an over active lower BrainMind.


Safe emotional experiences, (SEEKING, LUST, CARE, PLAY) promote development of the MindBrain.

The essential attachment bond is the mammalian secret to survival.

Attunement involves the emotional parts of the attachment bond, especially in humans.

The essential emotional attunement bond is the secret to human dominance of other mammals.



Every mammal that Panksepp made angry, if given the chance, would turn off the anger provoking stimuli.

Meaning it was a punishment they did not want to happen.

(I hope I made sense) (I am hopping to start a separate discussion on the SEEKING system focusing on rewards and punishment, with accurate quotes and will leave these important topics involving secondary and tertiary process for discussions after I better understand the primary factors.)

Almost all reptiles lack a CARE system.

(SEEKING, FEAR, RAGE) Reptilian


Mammals continue to survive partly because they CARE for their young.

CARE is one of the basic mammalian emotional systems.

(SEEKING, FEAR, RAGE, LUST, CARE, GRIEF, PLAY) Mammalian



Raw basic emotions systems are genetically acquired tools developed with evolutionary experiences (automatic, with motor functions, etc.)


Understanding the "simple" basic 7 primary emotional behavior systems, in my opinion, does help understand the "complex" higher secondary and tertiary processes.

Starting with issues that involve a more complex level of control, the higher secondary and tertiary process, is like trying to learn complex multiplication and division, without ever understanding addition and subtraction.






Peripherals Laymans

SB_UK
03-13-14, 08:46 AM
/ | \


/ (male archetype - 'selfish' - reptilian brain) | \ (female archetype - social structure formation - 'social' - mammalian brain)

But what'd you expect at balance between male and female archetypes ?

Emotional state not dependent on hurting another person -<- this is where the desire to compete comes from
&
Emotional state not dependent on aiding another person -<- this is where the desire to be in a social grouping comes from

Put the two together and we've the usual social grouping 1 versus social grouping 2 ie race, religious, national etc etc warfare.

Best off without either compulsion.

Sounds like freedom from material attachment - you aren't compelled to hurt another (for reward), you're not compelled to be in a social context (for reward) ... ...

SB_UK
03-13-14, 08:57 AM
So - at balance - we're not compelled to be bad to any other people, we're not compelled to be 'better' selectively to just certain other people ... ... meaning that we're going to end up being fair to ALL other people
- that'd be the evolutionary expectation on balance, I think.

End to -ISM world, social organism by definition

- speciation event

-- ADD - as sign - since at its root - the individual will be defined by a different reward system
- will not be able to attend to the old ways ... ... when the old ways are not consistent with pure morality.

ADD - emergence of social animal.

'Enforced moral consistency' because only that'll 'reward'; all of the other nonsense of money, power, tribalism
-- gone.

Maybe to suggest enforced moral consistency, because reward from 'immorality' discarded (the two archetypes) - therefore morality is left as the default position.

Lunacie
03-13-14, 10:17 AM
/ | \


/ (male archetype - 'selfish' - reptilian brain) | \ (female archetype - social structure formation - 'social' - mammalian brain)

But what'd you expect at balance between male and female archetypes ?

Emotional state not dependent on hurting another person -<- this is where the desire to compete comes from
&
Emotional state not dependent on aiding another person -<- this is where the desire to be in a social grouping comes from

Put the two together and we've the usual social grouping 1 versus social grouping 2 ie race, religious, national etc etc warfare.

Best off without either compulsion.

Sounds like freedom from material attachment - you aren't compelled to hurt another (for reward), you're not compelled to be in a social context (for reward) ... ...

Different "male" vs "female" archetypes? Nonsense.

Being human is actually a spectrum condition. ;)

Finally science has produce evidence that supports what we already knew -- the whole "men are from Mars, women are from Venus" trope is false. According to a new study from the University of Rochester, men and women don't have such distinct psychological characteristics after all.

The researchers, Harry Reis, a professor of psychology at University of Rochester, and Bobbi Carothers, senior data analyst for the Center for Public Health System Science at Washington University in St. Louis, concluded that characteristics that we traditionally associate with one sex or the other actually exist on a continuum.

more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/04/men-women-differences-minimal-mars-venus-study_n_2618199.html

mildadhd
03-13-14, 11:51 AM
Different "male" vs "female" archetypes? Nonsense.

Being human is actually a spectrum condition. ;)



more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/04/men-women-differences-minimal-mars-venus-study_n_2618199.html


There are some differences based on where the individual is on the gender spectrum.

Male and female are average guidelines.

Layman Example:

a male is involved in "making" a baby, but female carries and gives birth.

What is the natural human male role while the women carries and gives birth, Etc?



I think all genders have different levels of the same hormones, based on personal gender, etc.

(excuse my ignorant layman use of the term "differences" and "hormones", in the actual biology, I am sure the differences in gender are more complex than simply differences in hormones, the use of hormones is meant as a part example)


I would assume that the male and female would be the most common type of gender.


I understood SB_UK as presenting a 3 piece puzzle: male and female and reward system,

not, male verses female.



Peripherals Laymans

Lunacie
03-13-14, 12:00 PM
There are some differences based on where the individual is on the gender spectrum.

Male and female are average guidelines.

Example, men are involved in "making" a baby, but a women gives birth.


I would assume that the male and female would be the most common type of gender.


I understood SB_UK as presenting a 3 piece puzzle: male and female and reward system,

not male verses female.



Peripherals Laymans


SB used the word "versus." I didn't pull that out of thin air

Physically different? No question.

Different brains? Not so much.

This hypothesis that men and women are hard wired to seek different rewards ...

I don't think so.

I think socially we've been conditioned to express or repress different behaviors.

.

mildadhd
03-13-14, 12:18 PM
SB used the word "versus." I didn't pull that out of thin air

Physically different? No question.

Different brains? Not so much.

This hypothesis that men and women are hard wired to seek different rewards ...

I don't think so.

I think socially we've been conditioned to express or repress different behaviors.

.


Focusing on the use of the term "verses", I think in the quote below, SB_UK was comparing 2 mammalian social groups.

mammal and gender and social


Emotional state not dependent on hurting another person -<- this is where the desire to compete comes from
&
Emotional state not dependent on aiding another person -<- this is where the desire to be in a social grouping comes from

Put the two together and we've the usual social grouping 1 versus social grouping 2 ie race, religious, national etc etc warfare... (SB_UK)


Peripherals

SB_UK
03-13-14, 12:24 PM
I think the idea's as simple as:
male archetype arises
female archetype arises
structure completes when balanced

Imbalance and structure will be unstable ie towards hating all others (competition) (male archetype) or towards preferring certain others (favouritism) (female archetype).

So - the male archetype links with the reptilian mind.
The female archetype with the social mind.

From Peripheral's list - it looks like the mammalian mind wires positively into social behaviour (ie other members of species for positive reward) whereas reptilian mind wires positively only into hurting other members of the species.

Female archetype occurs secondarily - as it grows - selective attachment grows from a few - to all - pushing the male archetype back into the background - where at balance - all that's left I think of male archetype - is a society in which purpose of the male archetype (ie get food/shelter) - arises out of the new social structure.

SB_UK
03-13-14, 12:29 PM
Focusing on the use of the term "verses", I think in the quote below, SB_UK was comparing 2 mammalian social groups.

mammal and gender and social





Peripherals

2 mammalian social groups.

IE selective attachment for people within your tribe.
And then competition - warfare between tribes.

Most clearly seen between politicians, countries ... ... no real ideological battle - just a battle.

SB_UK
03-13-14, 12:36 PM
Sorry 2 very rushed posts - may have to reword.
General point simply - that we can model where we're going using the male / female ARCHETYPE idea ... ... that the male / female archetypes can be seen in Peripheral's description of reptilian and mammalian brains.
That the evolutionary pattern is for balance between male and female archetypes.
That the male and female archetypes aren't describing gender male and gender female - which happen to be just yet another /example/ of the archetype theory.

Male archetype (reptilian) = equally hate all others
Female archetype (mammalian) = become attached to others

ref:'war of the sexes' (archetypes) - battle for balance

At balance:
Male archetype (human, complete mind) - equally like all others
Female (human, complete mind) - become attached to all others

Compatible.

mildadhd
03-13-14, 01:10 PM
Pretending required mammalian bonds for health development are met.

Focusing on the feel good seeking drive, that results in reward or punishment

-We go into relax mode, when we get a reward.

-We go into fight, freeze, or flight when we get a punishment.

The reward and punishment are found the world around us.


Dopamine has many different jobs

Dopamine is involved in both reward and punishment mechanisms

Dopamine receptors are involved in the SEEKING System drive.

Dopamine is involved in the all the basic emotional systems.

Primarily through the SEEKING system. (traditionally known as the brain reward system, now called the SEEKING system)


The environmental conditions are decisive factors in reward or punishment.

When a human receives a reward, they tend to fall asleep.

The enthusiasm is not created by the reward, the enthusiasm is created in seeking the reward.


Over arousal of the SEEKING system is sometimes called mania,(to much dopamine) to happy

Under arousal of the SEEKING system is sometimes called manic (to less dopamine) to sad.

Balanced arousal (just right dopamine) happy



I really need to put together some research data and the biological mechanisms involved to better explain, my subjective opinion.

These words can be interpreted so many different ways.




Leave room for error, learning.


Peripherals

Lunacie
03-13-14, 01:25 PM
The "reward and punishment" system has never appealed to me.

I just finished reading "Lost At School" by Dr. Ross Greene,

and he slows very clearly why "reward and punishment" doesn't work

for kids with special needs ... like ADHD and Autism.

But neurotypical society is based on "reward and punishment."

This is one of the reasons we continue to struggle as adults.

And frankly, it's not working so well for the NTs either.

That's why people are complaining about "the one percent."

mildadhd
03-13-14, 02:03 PM
The "reward and punishment" system has never appealed to me.

I just finished reading "Lost At School" by Dr. Ross Greene,

and he slows very clearly why "reward and punishment" doesn't work

for kids with special needs ... like ADHD and Autism.

But neurotypical society is based on "reward and punishment."

This is one of the reasons we continue to struggle as adults.

And frankly, it's not working so well for the NTs either.

That's why people are complaining about "the one percent."


Nice post Lunacie,

I think your right, the present system is not working, in many cases.

I am hoping to understand the biological mechanisms involved in natural behavior.

And what conditions promote development of each brain area(s), etc.


I think most ADHDer's would agree with your post.


Even here at ADDForums I feel topics like jail and ADHD, Addicition and ADHD , etc are under represented by ADDers. (me included)

While many other ADHDers are rotting in jails of negative atmosphere, that only make things worse.



I believe in accountabliity but it is well known that most people in jail or struggling with substance abuse have neurological health issues.

That need a positive environment to promote development.

There are probably some very good ideas, but there seems like lots of ideas that only make things worse.

I think a thread rethinking the idea of reward and punishment and behavior, etc would be interesting.

I have been thinking about it for awhile and hope to get some OP topics for a discussion soon.

I would be interested in learning more about the book you read.


Peripherals

mildadhd
03-13-14, 02:38 PM
Recognizing the SEEKING system circuitry, is one of the 7 natural basic primary emotional behavior systems, is extremely important.





Peripherals Laymans

Lunacie
03-13-14, 02:57 PM
Thank you Peripheral.

The author, Dr. Ross Greene, explains that kids (and by extension adults) with behavior

problems often associated with ADHD, etc., are not acting out just to get attention.

The premise has been that any attention is what these kids want, even negative attention.

In reality, they would succeed if they could succeed, because that's what everyone

wants basically. The problem is that they haven't been able to learn the skills they need

by osmosis, the way most kids do.

He says if educators can identify the lagging skills and work with the kid,

together they can come up with a way to practice those skills.

mildadhd
03-13-14, 07:32 PM
Thank you Peripheral.

The author, Dr. Ross Greene, explains that kids (and by extension adults) with behavior

problems often associated with ADHD, etc., are not acting out just to get attention.

The premise has been that any attention is what these kids want, even negative attention.

In reality, they would succeed if they could succeed, because that's what everyone

wants basically. The problem is that they haven't been able to learn the skills they need

by osmosis, the way most kids do.

He says if educators can identify the lagging skills and work with the kid,

together they can come up with a way to practice those skills.

Thanks Lunacie,

We all seem to be on the same page, but sometimes, not the same sentence.


Panksepp recommends the first class of the school day be supervised recess.

Observant aware nurses could for watch for signs of symptoms.

(Anything without a quote is my interpretation, please leave room for error my translation)



i!i

Lunacie
03-13-14, 07:34 PM
Thanks Lunacie,

We all seem to be on the same page, but sometimes, not the same sentence.


Panksepp recommends the first class of the school day be supervised recess.

Observant aware nurses could for watch for signs of symptoms.

(Anything without a quote is my interpretation, please leave room for error my translation)



i!i

The lack of recess is certainly one of the really big problems.

My poor granddaughter is is middle school now and doesn't get recess at all.

She only has physical ed twice a week.

SB_UK
03-14-14, 11:00 AM
Pain (punishment) and Reward are things you feel
- rather than things people do to you.

So we can be punished (work harder!) for not behaving in a certain way (for which we derive no endogenous reward) - more so - we can feel pain trying and failing to attain some goal - which we're subsequently punished by another person for not achieving.

But ultimately what matters is whether the individual feels a sense of reward / pain (punishment) and not what the carrot or stick provided by another person result in - because the exogenous carrot won't override the individual's endogenous pain circuitry ... ... the exogenous stick won't override the individual's endogenous pain circuitry ... ...
- what we need is for the individual's own endogenous carrot circuitry to come alive.

SB_UK
03-14-14, 11:08 AM
Education

- the goal is to nail a form of education which the individual enjoys.

This shouldn't be hard - the mind wants to understand.

So what's the trick to sparking interest ?
Perhaps the individual needs to want to know the answer to any question, before their mind is ready to accept that answer.
Providing the answer to questions which the mind has no interest in answering - isn't useful.

Famous saying - 'when the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear'.

mildadhd
03-14-14, 01:47 PM
Education

- the goal is to nail a form of education which the individual enjoys.

This shouldn't be hard - the mind wants to understand.

So what's the trick to sparking interest ?
Perhaps the individual needs to want to know the answer to any question, before their mind is ready to accept that answer.
Providing the answer to questions which the mind has no interest in answering - isn't useful.

Famous saying - 'when the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear'.

I think Nature decides interest.

The spark is an emotional safe environment that promotes development.

The opposite of afraid.

Eustress promotes the development of control mechanisms.

Distress promotes development of the fight or flight response mechanisms.


Brain areas implicated in AD(H)D impairment, develop during positive emotional situations. (Eustress)

During negative emotional situations, areas involved in fight or flight mechanisms develop. (Distress)


A balanced experienced is the goal.


Negative has been given a bad rap.

Because positive needs negative to maintain homeostasis.

Positive and negative.

Not

Positive or negative.


Example,

Fear can be a good thing, if fear helps us escape danger. Etc


A healthy balance is the goal.


Rewards and Punishments are things in the world around us.

and the world creates enough pain punishment and material reward for us.


If we really want people to get better, we got to promote development where it became unbalanced, beyond their control.


I have often wondered/woried if I am doing the right thing by letting nature decide the interest and I promote the safe environment, in my relationship with my son.

Because I am a step dad, I was lucky not to have the option for "normal" displine.

My son is almost adult now, and I feel nature has done a highlysalubrious job.

I impatiently found that nature can sometimes take a little longer than I expected.

But sticking to my job as promoting a safe environment, that promotes development, as I can.

Nature has never let me down.




Peripherals (Super Laymans corrections appreciated)

Lunacie
03-14-14, 02:11 PM
I find myself agreeing with Peripheral. Feeling safe goes a long ways towards finding an interest in learning.

In the US, and I imagine in the UK as well, no one waits for student and teacher to meet.

Children are sent to school where there are often taught by indifferent teachers

or by teachers who are tired of teaching and fed up with difficult students.

They may also be fed up and frustrated by the fact that nothing changes although

it seems clear that what is in place isn't working very well.

Especially not for the difficult children.

mildadhd
03-14-14, 02:21 PM
Thank you Peripheral.

The author, Dr. Ross Greene, explains that kids (and by extension adults) with behavior

problems often associated with ADHD, etc., are not acting out just to get attention.

The premise has been that any attention is what these kids want, even negative attention.

In reality, they would succeed if they could succeed, because that's what everyone

wants basically. The problem is that they haven't been able to learn the skills they need

by osmosis, the way most kids do.

He says if educators can identify the lagging skills and work with the kid,

together they can come up with a way to practice those skills.

Lunacie,

I keep wondering more about the use of the term osmosis.

I think it is interesting word to use.

I understand the terms water osmosis biology.

I understood you to mean osmosis "soak up information" way?

I was wondering if Dr. Greene mentions the biological mechanisms involved and is osmosis a term found in the book?

I am looking for vocabulary that doesn't cause people to dwell on negative circumstances. Etc.

I Learned from Temple Grandin (video) that we dwell on some terms to much.

I want to develop the vocabulary, that promotes development, not deter, while at the same time be biologically as accurate as possible.



Peripherals I

Lunacie
03-14-14, 02:54 PM
Yes, Dr. Greene did use the term osmosis in the book, but he didn't delve into the biology.

He wasn't explaining what causes kids to have these lags in developing skills,

the focus was on how teachers and kids can work together to develop those skills.


Of course, now that I think about it, I began reading the books by Temple Grandin and

Sean Barron as I was finishing the book by Dr. Greene, and I may have mistakenly

credited the wrong author with using the word "osmosis."

Dr. Greene's book has gone back to the library, but I can check the new book to see

if that's where I read that concept.

mildadhd
03-14-14, 03:20 PM
Osmosis is a thought provoking word.


I wonder what is the solute, when two or more people who care for each other, hug happily?





i!i

SB_UK
03-14-14, 04:11 PM
Our maths teacher once said to a student whose head was resting on his maths text book.

Whatcha' doing boy - hoping that the information will just 'up' into yer head by osmosis ?

I wonder why it's always maths !!

mildadhd
03-14-14, 11:05 PM
Our maths teacher once said to a student whose head was resting on his maths text book.

Whatcha' doing boy - hoping that the information will just 'up' into yer head by osmosis ?

I wonder why it's always maths !!


I liked math especially geometry. I think it was partly because math was straight up. Learn the rules, practice the rules.

I liked lining up the numbers.

I used to love drawing the arrow bringing number down, in long division. Keeping the numbers in neat rows. (kept me from doodling)

Never went higher than algebra and geometry and don't remember much.

French class was hard to sneak by, partly because, not only didn't I read the material, I didn't understand the language the best.


On the side of the pages of my only note book, used for all my classes, I would draw these wavy stick man, skipping and flipping around.

A few years ago, or so, I walked past a CHADD poster on a bullietine board.

There was a wavy stick man, with a extra long skinny shadow, skipping and flipping across the bottom of the poster. I could have sworn I drew it my self.

(I forgot about that til now.)





For me literature no matter the language, was torture, even when I really liked the teacher.

I would describe it now as subjective.

Nothing better than a good story, but I don't understand how a subjective opinion on a subjective topic can be scored.

Nothing worse than when a teach asks me to read out loud.

I do think it is art.


I would be yawning away, in the back of english class.

I discovered I could make other people yawn.

But I could never be able to predict exactly who.



Peripherals

mildadhd
03-14-14, 11:29 PM
Yes, Dr. Greene did use the term osmosis in the book, but he didn't delve into the biology.

He wasn't explaining what causes kids to have these lags in developing skills,

the focus was on how teachers and kids can work together to develop those skills.


Of course, now that I think about it, I began reading the books by Temple Grandin and

Sean Barron as I was finishing the book by Dr. Greene, and I may have mistakenly

credited the wrong author with using the word "osmosis."

Dr. Greene's book has gone back to the library, but I can check the new book to see

if that's where I read that concept.

Lunacie, I might never get around to reading everything I want to read.

I have been reading maybe 10 books some for about 7 years.

And I still didn't finish any of them (and one of them is a coloring book)

Panksepp's new book will probably take me til 2050 research.

I predict I got about 10 years before I finish Scattered, by Mate.



I hope you post any information from any author that you think relative to the conversation.

The material looks very interesting. Others opinions helps me make up time.

Peripherals

SB_UK
03-21-14, 06:53 AM
Trees have chlorophyll pigment.
Brains have melanin pigment.

There's something very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very important about melanin (http://unlockthecode.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/melanin-in-nervous-system.html) - which we're on the verge of discovering.

So ... ... I've been suggesting gamma ray conversion via neuromelanin.

But but but - I think it might end up being something like central EEG resonance with planetary Schumann frequencies at theta EEG (daydream EEG) IE food for thought (daydream).

SB_UK
03-21-14, 06:56 AM
Zoning out is way more fun than thinking thoroughly pointless (or so we see with enough time thinking) thoughts.

Presumably sun -> melanin, drives neuromelanin expression too - which is why zoning out in the sun is so great.

And with dopamine associated with motor activities (which feeds neuromelanin with substrate) - why walking in the sun whilst zoning out ... ... may be the biological mechanism which separates man from the material world.

IE we don't need anything from the material world any more.

And so are free - to zone out in the sun whilst walking our doggy.

We become A tree brain with (similar to tree) the need for water and maybe certain inorganic ions.

mildadhd
03-22-14, 01:06 AM
SB_UK


Does melanin have a part in how the nucleolus gets RNA information?

Uracil, body and skin?


Some type of connection/communication between the internal environments and the external environments?


Super duper, layhuman questions?


Peripherals

SB_UK
03-22-14, 10:34 AM
Don't know where this post is going.

Isn't melanin an energy transducer ie a way of switching energy from 1 form into another.
So - surface melanin UV energy dissipated and neuromelanin dissipates chemical energy (free radicals)

Sun -> generally associated with free radical formation -> DNA damage -> cancer (skin)

Neuromelanin -> generally associated with free radical squelching -> protective against diseases eg Parkinson's disease

Maybe ??
Sun -> Skin -> ... -> free radical -> Neuromelanin -> Energy

Harnessing free radical formation from being in sun / mitochondrial production ie harnessing the use of what we normally consider ultra-reactive dangerous chemical compounds - is attractive - in much the same way that we're powered by oxygen.

Going back to becoming solar organisms like the tree.

Still trying to connect {sun, walking, daydream} to energy production.

SB_UK
03-22-14, 01:16 PM
So - the question I want answering is - why can't we pay attention to the same stuff that other people can ?
However - when you've an ADD mind and you think about it for a minute - the question becomes why on earth are people wasting their time paying attention to things that don't matter ?
So not paying attention to pointless things is a good thing ?
But we have to obtain reward ?

Melanin sits at skin - happy when in the sun.
Melanin sits in ear - happy (musical chills) listening to music
Melanin sits in the eye - happiness through visual imagery (described previously)

We're looking at the transformation of external into internal information - to power the human organism - and at mechanisms whereby the power extracted from 'external' reality becomes greater.

Melanin in different guises is like a plug socket which we can tie into.

But if melanin is so great why aren't we powered off it ?
Certain fungae are powered off melanin/gamma rays.

But why aren't we ?

http://ro.uow.edu.au/hbspapers/3058/
... it is well-established that children with AD/HD show globally-enhanced absolute delta and theta power, globally-reduced absolute alpha and beta power, and elevated theta/beta ratio. http://web.mst.edu/~psyworld/sleep_stages.htm
During a normal nights sleep a sleeper passes from the theta waves of stage 1 and 2, to the delta waves of stage 3 and 4.Sleeping does feel like a waste of time.

-*-

For some reason I think I'm trying to work towards the elimination of food/sleep from man in the emergence of ADD.