View Full Version : ADHD, Old Souls and The Dark Night of The Soul


Kunga Dorji
03-15-14, 03:22 AM
For my money Thom Hartmann was right "on the money" when he wrote his introduction to "The Edison Gene"

http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2010/07/adhd-disordered-minds-or-old-souls

But if we are "old souls" why is our behaviour often so irritable and difficult?
Is that not a paradox, or even disproof of the "Old Soul" model.

Short answer- no.
"The Dark Night of The Soul" is a concept well known to Christian mystics.
This is very well dealt with by WIlliam Johnston in his book "The Mirror Mind".
Johnston was (I think was rather than is) a Jesuit who had a strong interest in Zen.
He described various "ways" to reach enlightenment or God consciousness (again words are clumsy tools to use in this territory).

One way is "The Way of Affect"- or emotionality.
Johnston describes individuals following this path as going through a turbulent "Dark Night of The Soul" in which we flip from kind, loving and positive behaviour, to slumping back into chaos. However- every time we fall, we get back up again. This stage can go on a long time- but it realy is the penultimate stage in spiritual growth. After that-- "the big E".

Does this sound familiar to you guys? I know people who have gone fully through this transition- and I am sure we will do so- this lifetime, not in 1 or 7 or 100 lifetimes. Maybe even before our next hot meal.

So much depends on our view.

So many really bad things happen to people who can be described as ADHD.

Our "view" is all important.
If we just choose to trust that "the universe is unfolding as it should", that "we are getting the necessary life lessons that we signed up for this rebirth",
that "we are Buddhas in the process of manifesting our inner virtues" or that we are in the hands of a powerful and loving God-- then everything changes. I am sure there are other equally empowering ways of expressing this- but these are a few that come to mind.

It is well proven that the effect in damping our stress response, in altering our epigenetics is vast, and immediate, once we fully inhabit this view with confidence. It does not even matter if it is objectively true-- (if there is sucha thing as objective truth- which is highly debateable).
If we believe it, and feel like we believe it (you can "cheat" here and use the emWave to train into living this sensation every moment of your life- but only if you are savvy enough).

My teacher Alan Wallace explains Dzogchen, "the Great Perfection" of Buddhist teaching thus.


"According to Stehpen Hawking's view of quantum cosmology "All possible pasts, futures and presents exist in a state of quantum superposition- until somebody makes a measurement. So with this understanding the traditional model of a Buddhist aspirant pursuing the path, shedding obscurations and becoming a fully enlightened Buddha is an illusion. You are already a Buddha-(as is everyone else)-- so simply ACT like one and let enjoying the fruits of the culmination of the path be your path to enlightenment"


That is so powerful it is mind blowing.
A couple of clarifications though-- the nature of the observer is a critical variable here. If you believe that ADHD is a genetically determined lifelong disease then you will not have the view that allows you to make the correct observations. it would be like looking at the Milky Way though a telescope with a dirty lens.

Point two-- what is a Buddha like?
We have very clear evidence from the iconography of the postural adjustments necessary to experience the interoceptive (sensory) experience of being a Buddha. The stories of his teachings give great clue.
Finally there are many living Buddhas- The Dalai Lama, Nelson Mandela (until recently) and too many others to name. Now we have the internet we can look at the see people again and again- see how they carry themselves, and observe their habits and actions again and again-- and copy them just like a child would copy a loved parent.

(The latter can be a trap for the unwary-- it is only recently that I learned to stop copying my mother's anxiety! Still- we fall over, then we get up, observe and try again- a little the wiser each time.)

sarek
03-15-14, 04:41 AM
Thank you for this very enlightening insight. I wholeheartedly agree with your insights. However, care must be taken to not follow this process through passively, as though the end result is already certain.
To do so is one of the most dangerous and indeed lethal traps of spirituality. It is not without thorough and diligent work on learning to know ourselves that we can travel this path. What is demanded of us is much, but the results will be worth the price we pay. The path of a seeker becomes life itself, indeed, takes the place of life and ordinary life as we know it becomes no more than a tool of learning in our hands.

Indeed, Gurdjieff said:


“There is an Eastern tale that speaks about a very rich magician who had a great many sheep. But at the same time this magician was very mean. He did not want to hire shepherds, nor did he want to erect a fence about the pasture where the sheep were grazing. The sheep consequently often wandered into the forest, fell into ravines and so on, and above all, they ran away, for they knew that the magician wanted their flesh and their skins, and this they did not like.
“At last the magician found a remedy. He hypnotized his sheep and suggested to them, first of all, that they were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned; that on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them; and in the third place, he suggested that if anything at all were going to happen to them, it was not going to happen just then, at any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it. Further, the magician suggested to his sheep that they were not sheep at all; to some of them he suggested that they were lions, to some that they were eagles, to some that they were men, to others that they were magicians.
“After this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end. They never ran away again, but quietly awaited the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins.
“This tale is a very good illustration of man’s position.”

Kunga Dorji
03-15-14, 05:22 AM
Thank you for this very enlightening insight. I wholeheartedly agree with your insights. However, care must be taken to not follow this process through passively, as though the end result is already certain.
To do so is one of the most dangerous and indeed lethal traps of spirituality. It is not without thorough and diligent work on learning to know ourselves that we can travel this path. What is demanded of us is much, but the results will be worth the price we pay. The path of a seeker becomes life itself, indeed, takes the place of life and ordinary life as we know it becomes no more than a tool of learning in our hands.

Indeed, Gurdjieff said:

Quite right- about the danger of passivity- but my feeling is that confidence in the end outcome is of critical importance.

In this model - the penalty for overconfidence is delay in progress. If you enjoy suffering, you might choose the supposedly easy route, but masochism is not all that common ;)

The way I look at this is to look very closely at the best model that I can see
(Currently, in terms of behaviours and attitudes I can't find better than the Dalai Lama- but that is just me speaking from where I am coming from. However, and this might cause some to react against this observation, I would not follow his example re posture and maintenance of his body.
The model of the sitting Buddha (7 point posture of Vairocana) or ofthe lean and upright hunter gatherer remain my models of the likely physical morphology of a fully enlightened being.

As with everything else though-- our "view" is limited by our current level of capacity, and no doubt I will find a way of looking at all this that suprecedes the way I am thinking about it now.

Re passivity-- the way I have been thinking about this is pretty simple:
The strong emphasis on kindness and compassion in Mahayana Buddhism is central here.

If my actions cause a noticeable relief and increase in happiness in the individuals I interact with, and if I am not in my actions encouraging them to persist in harmful self delusion, I should be able to read their happiness in their faces, and in the longer term I should be able to see them escape from some of the thinking traps I have fallen for in the past.

This is a very fine line to run- and the chance of "failure" of any one action is high. We are bound to stuff up and do the wrong thing.

However, if we have the courage to take responsibility for our failures, to acknowledge them and ask "what went wrong there?" what does the failure tell me about the limitations of my "view"? then we are pretty much locked into a cycleof permanent improvement, and the outcome is certain.

It needs mindfulness, persistence, and absolutely rigorous commitment to self examination and "continuous performance review cycles" to use modern day management jargon.

It is worth the effort- I no longer doubt that.

Kunga Dorji
03-15-14, 05:26 AM
Thank you for this very enlightening insight. I wholeheartedly agree with your insights. However, care must be taken to not follow this process through passively, as though the end result is already certain.
To do so is one of the most dangerous and indeed lethal traps of spirituality. It is not without thorough and diligent work on learning to know ourselves that we can travel this path. What is demanded of us is much, but the results will be worth the price we pay. The path of a seeker becomes life itself, indeed, takes the place of life and ordinary life as we know it becomes no more than a tool of learning in our hands.

Indeed, Gurdjieff said:

re Gurdjeef- the trouble with his analogy is that there is no one controller out there casting a spell on us. The spell caster is our own ego- which is merely a psychological construct that facilitates the maintenance of our physical bodies. That is a respectable and worthwhile role- but the ego does get ahead of itself and think it is the boss sometimes.

You might like Paul Levy on "Malignant egephrenia":
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/wordpress/the-masters-of-deception/

(What am I talking about- I reckon you will LOVE it :)

sarek
03-15-14, 06:02 AM
The spell caster is indeed our own ego, that is a correct observation. As Edward Jones says it " thinking is thinking us"
We have been deluded into believing that our thoughts OR for that matter, our feelings, are what defines us, but they are merely meant as a tool to be used, not as a master to drive the horse and carriage.

I wholly agree when you say that it is important to have confidence in the outcome. This is more commonly known as "faith" If you have no faith at all, starting on the path is an exercise in futility. The path can not be proven, it can only be experienced by one who travels on it.

Kunga Dorji
03-15-14, 06:24 AM
The spell caster is indeed our own ego, that is a correct observation. As Edward Jones says it " thinking is thinking us"
We have been deluded into believing that our thoughts OR for that matter, our feelings, are what defines us, but they are merely meant as a tool to be used, not as a master to drive the horse and carriage.

I wholly agree when you say that it is important to have confidence in the outcome. This is more commonly known as "faith" If you have no faith at all, starting on the path is an exercise in futility. The path can not be proven, it can only be experienced by one who travels on it.

Perfect.
Faith and confidence are very closely allied- except that what starts as faith may become infused by confidence as experience produces testable and reproducible positive outcomes.

I'm not a big fan of blind faith though- or of being asked to have faith in something when I have serious questions as to the sense of what I am being asked to trust in.
That was always my experience of what was being pushed on me when I was younger.

Trooper Keith
04-07-14, 05:55 PM
If only esoteric posts were organized a little better. I don't usually follow them well, probably due to my own inferior intelligence. But anyhow, Kunga-la, I am really pleased to see your general thrust towards emphasizing the Mahayana.

I don't know that making an argument that ADHD is tied somehow to a stage on the path is really fruitful, though. After all, yes, many people with ADHD have sufferings beyond that of more fortunate beings. Many people without ADHD have sufferings beyond that of a Westerner with ADHD. Ultimately it's all just karma. Those people with proximity to Dharma, with precious human births and with leisure and luxury and so on, even if they have ADHD, are born such because of their karma.

I do not think it is so much the "dark night of the soul," which I usually consider to be the result of a being's karma coming to the point where it can begin to ripen in purification. As the person attains spiritually on the path, their negative karma is purified through fruition. This can be a very difficult time, with many obstacles arising and being overcome. Without renunciation, we lose our resolve and succumb to these obstacles. With renunciation, these karmic consequences can be cleansed.

I remain unconvinced that ADHD and this kind of "dark night of the soul" are related.

Incidentally, Kunga-la, you don't happen to speak Tibetan do you?

sarek
04-08-14, 02:49 AM
I'm not sure about the connection between ADHD and this dark night of the soul either.

What I do know is this:

1. My flavour of ADD appears to predispose me toward following the spiritual path almost as if it has been waiting for me to find. The way my brain works seems to somehow make me quite well suited for it.
2. On said path, we will be given the challenges we need at each point. How we take those challenges is what is most important to the transformation of our being.
3. Disclaimer: This is highly personal. My experiences do not necessarily mean anything at all to another person. This also means that we can not talk about such a thing as karma in relation to the world outside. It applies strictly to the individual him/herself. I can speak about my own karma, but not about yours or anybody else's. The esoteric path is about looking inside, not outside.

someothertime
04-08-14, 06:56 AM
You know that saying.... "this too shall pass".... it's often drawn upon in times of strife... though I feel that at it's heart..... it also aligns with the principles you've outlined.

Today I walked across an intersection without really looking just "sensing", saw a car hit the curb in front of me ( looked before it hit ), flipped through songs on my phone while listening to the current track, made eye contact with 5 people and observed many things whilst doing this... pure sync... no blockage...

Practically though... it seems that it's 98% resistance and 2% allowance / sync / flowtime... I get a gut feeling that this is the way it is supposed to be.... well... not exactly.... sure, one can minimise resistance events.... though I feel this "sync" and "being" are two very different things...

Closely related.... kind of like laughing and smiling....... :)

sarek
04-08-14, 07:50 AM
You know that saying.... "this too shall pass".... it's often drawn upon in times of strife... though I feel that at it's heart..... it also aligns with the principles you've outlined.

Today I walked across an intersection without really looking just "sensing", saw a car hit the curb in front of me ( looked before it hit ), flipped through songs on my phone while listening to the current track, made eye contact with 5 people and observed many things whilst doing this... pure sync... no blockage...

Practically though... it seems that it's 98% resistance and 2% allowance / sync / flowtime... I get a gut feeling that this is the way it is supposed to be.... well... not exactly.... sure, one can minimise resistance events.... though I feel this "sync" and "being" are two very different things...

Closely related.... kind of like laughing and smiling....... :)

Yes, at it heart its simply what you said. Getting us out of our heads and out of resistance, and back into flowtime, or rather, no time at all, the indivisible moment.
In emergency situations our mind does that for us, but other than that we keep going back to sleep.

Its odd that something so simple can be so complicated.

Kunga Dorji
04-09-14, 04:59 AM
If only esoteric posts were organized a little better. I don't usually follow them well, probably due to my own inferior intelligence. But anyhow, Kunga-la, I am really pleased to see your general thrust towards emphasizing the Mahayana.

I don't know that making an argument that ADHD is tied somehow to a stage on the path is really fruitful, though. After all, yes, many people with ADHD have sufferings beyond that of more fortunate beings. Many people without ADHD have sufferings beyond that of a Westerner with ADHD. Ultimately it's all just karma. Those people with proximity to Dharma, with precious human births and with leisure and luxury and so on, even if they have ADHD, are born such because of their karma.

I do not think it is so much the "dark night of the soul," which I usually consider to be the result of a being's karma coming to the point where it can begin to ripen in purification. As the person attains spiritually on the path, their negative karma is purified through fruition. This can be a very difficult time, with many obstacles arising and being overcome. Without renunciation, we lose our resolve and succumb to these obstacles. With renunciation, these karmic consequences can be cleansed.

I remain unconvinced that ADHD and this kind of "dark night of the soul" are related.

Incidentally, Kunga-la, you don't happen to speak Tibetan do you?

re Tibetan-- sadly-- not yet -not as far as I can recall :)

Mahayana is great- but Vajrayana is more compact.

Brevity is the soul of wit :D

Re Dark night etc

we can view our paths through various lenses:

The ADHD/Medical lens is helpful as it allows us access to substances that improve our focus and awareness- despite the idiocy of our world's drug laws.

The medical model is bad though as it binds us with the truly idiotic model that we have "something permanently wrong with us".

The "spiritual model" tells us that there is "something irretrievably right with us".

So- when dealing with myself and like minded people I will opt to use the spiritual model.

Wehn dealing with the "neurotypical" (read the recalcitrantly judgmental) I will pretend that I admire the magnificence of their glorious biomedical model-- the jewel in the crown of a civilisation that looks set to go extinct.

The tragic thing is that my neurotypical prescribing psychiatrist will not even understand the terms defined in this argument.

Poor boy!





The ADHD

Kunga Dorji
04-09-14, 05:00 AM
Yes, at it heart its simply what you said. Getting us out of our heads and out of resistance, and back into flowtime, or rather, no time at all, the indivisible moment.
In emergency situations our mind does that for us, but other than that we keep going back to sleep.

Its odd that something so simple can be so complicated.

NO-- THEY keep going back to sleep.
Don't you have insomnia too???? :D

Trooper Keith
04-09-14, 10:18 AM
re Tibetan-- sadly-- not yet -not as far as I can recall :)

Mahayana is great- but Vajrayana is more compact.


My precious teacher describes the Hinayana, Mahayana, and Vajrayana as vehicles, literally: the Hinayana is like a car, it only seats one, and gets there eventually. The Mahayana is like a bus - everyone can get on, but it still doesn't get there very fast. Vajrayana is like an airplane - it goes very fast and can seat a lot of people, but if it goes wrong it goes really wrong, haha.

Kunga Dorji
04-10-14, 05:06 AM
My precious teacher describes the Hinayana, Mahayana, and Vajrayana as vehicles, literally: the Hinayana is like a car, it only seats one, and gets there eventually. The Mahayana is like a bus - everyone can get on, but it still doesn't get there very fast. Vajrayana is like an airplane - it goes very fast and can seat a lot of people, but if it goes wrong it goes really wrong, haha.


Well -- there is that tiny problem-- until you understand that wrong and right are dualistic ideas.
When Vajrayana "goes wrong"-- the opportunities that are being handed to you are quite remarkable :)

Consider the concept "The Upside of Down" :)

Kunga Dorji
04-10-14, 07:37 AM
You know that saying.... "this too shall pass".... it's often drawn upon in times of strife... though I feel that at it's heart..... it also aligns with the principles you've outlined.

Today I walked across an intersection without really looking just "sensing", saw a car hit the curb in front of me ( looked before it hit ), flipped through songs on my phone while listening to the current track, made eye contact with 5 people and observed many things whilst doing this... pure sync... no blockage...

Practically though... it seems that it's 98% resistance and 2% allowance / sync / flowtime... I get a gut feeling that this is the way it is supposed to be.... well... not exactly.... sure, one can minimise resistance events.... though I feel this "sync" and "being" are two very different things...

Closely related.... kind of like laughing and smiling....... :)

Well- we are told that it can be 100% flow time.
So far the early signs are promising- but I think it is time I flowed into bed!

anotheradder
05-31-15, 08:10 PM
...
3. Disclaimer: This is highly personal. My experiences do not necessarily mean anything at all to another person. ...
...


:lol:

All are one, and one is all :)

Abi
05-31-15, 08:24 PM
I think I just have bad Kamma.

I have the distinct feeling that I was royalty or some sort of nobility in my past life.
I was probably an *******

finallyfound10
05-31-15, 08:37 PM
More than once I have thought that the last 14 yrs (or perhaps only the last 5 yrs depending upon on how it's perceived) are my Dark Night of the Soul and that I really should read it. I am a Christian so St. John of the Cross ans I have common ground.

adhdseeker
09-03-15, 04:12 AM
Dude, this hits home. I study Tibetan Buddhism. I strongly admire the Dalai Lama and as I have received teachings from him (also held his hand), I consider him a guru, along with Jangtse Chojey and Lama Zopa Rinpoche.
I am considering stopping my Adderall medication for points mentioned above -- continuing to take this medication strongly gives me the impression that there is something wrong with my natural mental state, but real awareness persists through that. And I have strong confidence that what started out as a "disorder" would turn into its own type of intelligence if I was settled in it appropriately. Of course, this is hard for my psychiatrist to understand or believe, so I feel a little on my own with this.

Anyway, I think ADDers can be surprisingly sensitive and spiritually aware. Don't mean to push any buttons but I would argue that these teachers have ADD:

--Jangtse Chojey
--Lama Zopa Rinpoche
--Chogyam Trungpa
--Khandro-la
--Phuntsok Rinpoche (age 12)
--Yangtsi Rinpoche (he agrees)

WHAT DO OTHER PEOPLE THINK OF THIS?

And other besides. i admire the character and work of all of these teachers. And when I say I can perceive ADD stuff in them, I don't mean that as a diss but just as how it is. I think many Rinpoche's have this....... I swear this culture is just messed up in its values.
It's really hard to figure out whether I should be on them or off of them when I am dealing with these contrasting perspectives.

I might be in my own world as an ADHD person, but maybe it help foster a kind of detachment. I feel I have achieved that kind of detachment even with meds. I think my spiritual progress could be easier without them at this point. I don't generally talk about spiritual stuff publicly but... I feel like I am supposed to be letting go and instead I'm taking these meds and holding on. It's so confusing.

sarek
09-04-15, 04:10 AM
A great many of the people whom I have encountered on the spiritual path are neurodiverse in some way or another. It is actually quite rare to find a neurotypical person finding this direction.

I can see two reasons why this is so:

1. Neurodiversity dramatically increases the challenge level, and so accelerates the learning curve.
2. There seems to be something about the wiring of our brain that makes many spiritual practices easier. One exception I have personally found is that so far my ADD driven impatience has made meditation very difficult for me.

Kunga Dorji
09-04-15, 06:28 PM
Dude, this hits home. I study Tibetan Buddhism. I strongly admire the Dalai Lama and as I have received teachings from him (also held his hand), I consider him a guru, along with Jangtse Chojey and Lama Zopa Rinpoche.
I am considering stopping my Adderall medication for points mentioned above -- continuing to take this medication strongly gives me the impression that there is something wrong with my natural mental state, but real awareness persists through that. And I have strong confidence that what started out as a "disorder" would turn into its own type of intelligence if I was settled in it appropriately. Of course, this is hard for my psychiatrist to understand or believe, so I feel a little on my own with this.

Anyway, I think ADDers can be surprisingly sensitive and spiritually aware. Don't mean to push any buttons but I would argue that these teachers have ADD:

--Jangtse Chojey
--Lama Zopa Rinpoche
--Chogyam Trungpa
--Khandro-la
--Phuntsok Rinpoche (age 12)
--Yangtsi Rinpoche (he agrees)

WHAT DO OTHER PEOPLE THINK OF THIS?

And other besides. i admire the character and work of all of these teachers. And when I say I can perceive ADD stuff in them, I don't mean that as a diss but just as how it is. I think many Rinpoche's have this....... I swear this culture is just messed up in its values.
It's really hard to figure out whether I should be on them or off of them when I am dealing with these contrasting perspectives.

I might be in my own world as an ADHD person, but maybe it help foster a kind of detachment. I feel I have achieved that kind of detachment even with meds. I think my spiritual progress could be easier without them at this point. I don't generally talk about spiritual stuff publicly but... I feel like I am supposed to be letting go and instead I'm taking these meds and holding on. It's so confusing.

I suspect you are right about many of the Rinpoches, however many of the Tibetans are very traumatised- both physically and emotionally.

This talk by Lama Yeshe, clearly shows an enormous number of physical signs of "cerebellar cognitive affective sydrome"- which is now recognised as a driver of many of the symptoms in ADHD. However Yeshe was an enormously lucid teacher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fb8dpQ5dkA

Note the difficulty he has in initiating his speech, the frequent pauses and word finding difficulty, the grimacing and the microsaccading of his eyes.
These are all indicative of very significant neurological impairment of the same type that is associated with ADHD.
However Yeshe was a remarkably gifted teacher and very much loved by all his students. He certainly had none of the emotional impulsiveness and explosiveness that is such an issue in ADHD.
I have always admired his teachings, and admire them even more now I see the difficulties he has transcended.

My own teacher is well known for his impulsive changes of direction- which leave those doing the organising of his institute flat footed and struggling to keep up very often. However he is a very scholarly man.
It is inspiring to see the way he can combine his knowledge and his ability to go off on tangents to recombine thoughts in a new and stimulating way.

One of the Dalai Lama's favorite authors Shantideva- was not at all popular at university as he never turned up to class, and slept all day, and appeared to never do any work. However he surprised everyone with his re-combination of the teachings into one of the classics of Buddhist literature.It is worth listening to Pema Chodron talking about his story on You Tube-- it is really funny.

I dont see any contradiction in taking the medications- they help me be a kinder and more positive person if I work at it.

The path in Buddhist mind training involves training in the three disciplines of wisdom, ethical (kind) behaviour, and attentional stability.

It is understood now that cognition and memory are assisted in anyone who can take stimulants without side effects, and it is also understood that neuroplastic brain change is dependent on focussed attention at the task at hand.

I can think of many occasions where my ADHD has left me irritable and unpleasant to be with, and where I have said and done unkind things. SO I have no problem with using the medications to help me move away from those aspects of the Dark Night of The Soul.

SB_UK
09-05-15, 01:33 AM
ADHD, Old Souls and The Dark Night of The Soul


This great evil - where's it come from?
How'd it steal into the world?
What seed, what root did it grow from?
Who's doing this?
Who's killing us, robbing us of life and light, mocking us with the sight of what we mighta known?
Does our ruin benefit the earth, aid the grass to grow and the sun to shine?
Is this darkness in you, too?
Have you passed through this night?
Read more: Explosions In The Sky - Have You Passed Through This Night? Lyrics | MetroLyrics (http://www.metrolyrics.com/have-you-passed-through-this-night-lyrics-explosions-in-the-sky.html#ixzz3kq2LXapF)






One way is "The Way of Affect"- or emotionality.
Johnston describes individuals following this path as going through a turbulent "Dark Night of The Soul" in which we flip from kind, loving and positive behaviour, to slumping back into chaos. However- every time we fall, we get back up again. This stage can go on a long time- but it realy is the penultimate stage in spiritual growth. After that-- "the big E".



The point is to be happy

It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how

- we fall over, then we get up, observe and try again- a little the wiser each time.

Learning through repetition.
Each time simplifying until we arrive at the simplest workable cerebellar automatising mechanism and we have learnt - further practice improves quality.

So - we have repetition training intrinsic quality.
This is true for walking and building the mind.

The mind is a model of understanding which strives towards the scientific model of simplest explanatory model - making it a natural equivalent to learning to walk.

Learning to walk - movement in external space
Learning to use the mind - movement in internal space.

phantasm
09-08-15, 12:01 AM
Dude, this hits home.
Anyway, I think ADDers can be surprisingly sensitive and spiritually aware.
WHAT DO OTHER PEOPLE THINK OF THIS?


I might be in my own world as an ADHD person, but maybe it help foster a kind of detachment. I feel I have achieved that kind of detachment even with meds. I think my spiritual progress could be easier without them at this point. I don't generally talk about spiritual stuff publicly but... I feel like I am supposed to be letting go and instead I'm taking these meds and holding on. It's so confusing.

ADHDSEEKER - I'm curious how you happened upon this thread? Random question, I know. Just curious, pretty fascinating topic as all. ;)

My goodness, such a big topic, but I have wondered about ADDers being old souls as well. Never new how to address it or start a thread about it. Very interesting indeed. :yes:

I like what Sarek said "3. Disclaimer: This is highly personal. My experiences do not necessarily mean anything at all to another person. This also means that we can not talk about such a thing as karma in relation to the world outside. It applies strictly to the individual him/herself. I can speak about my own karma, but not about yours or anybody else's. The esoteric path is about looking inside, not outside."

I could imagine that because our paths are all different, no one will perceive it all the same. Hence, difference in religious beliefs, convictions, idealism, etc. No right or wrong answer can be diffinitive for all.

But back to the original question of the thread... I find it interesting to wonder if ADDers/ADHDers can be old souls. I've thought of it so often, wondered if we are going through our lives/experiences like flipping through pages of a book, to get to the parts that we skipped over or didn't get the whole idea of before (learning the lesson) moving to the next chapter. Almost like living an incomplete life because we fully didn't experience it (get the lesson) fully the first time around. So we have a "groundhog day" type life, where we will experience lives over and over until we "get the lesson" so to speak. :scratch: Dejavu anyone?? :umm1:

Gosh, I know what I'm trying to say, but I may not be typing it out how my mind thinks it. :p

I find that just "being" in the moment and not trying "to be" anything, is what really helps experience huge breakthroughs in life. Such as how ADD is considered a "disorder" or "mental illness" or whatever the label may be... Now us ADDers are put into a category that is not how an NT person is like, means there is something "wrong" with our brains to the point that we need medication to "BE" like an NT. But what is an NT? :eyebrow: Could they be young souls who are newer souls? Or are they older souls on their final journey, having life be a breeze and only having few struggles?

I would like to believe that the more we can "be: ourselves (without being driven by the ego) we can actually live a life of grace and ease. However because there is such a separation of who we are in this world to one another, be it, religious, spirituality, mentality, ect. one will constantly be in a struggle to "fit in" to society as to be "normal". Even though, IMHO, we all have our own paths, our own destiny, our own truths, our own normal.

Fascinating thread. :yes: