View Full Version : When parents ask your opinion to help their ADHD child what do you say?


thomasl
04-05-14, 09:49 PM
What is your advice, most parents are very quick to want to put children on drugs and I am wondering what your response is to this question. Thanks!

CrazyLazyGal
04-05-14, 11:57 PM
I'd say to first verify the diagnosis. There are conditions that have overlapping symptoms, and it's easy to mistake them for ADHD. For example, when you hear parents saying that certain diets helped their child's ADHD, most of the time I think the child was actually misdiagnosed and had food sensitivities, not ADHD. People with ADHD not uncommonly have some other conditions, and those need to be diagnosed as well.

So that's the first step--making sure the ADHD diagnosis is correct and also diagnosing anything else that might be going on.

After that, the question is whether the ADHD is "costing them". If the answer is yes, then medications should be the first line of treatment. Ideally, the medication should be complemented by behavioral and environmental modifications.

thomasl
04-06-14, 01:07 AM
I find it a pretty tough situation because the first thing I think of is that the parents are playing into the condition unknowingly. The problem with that is I do not want to disrespect the children and am unsure which test for ADHD is the best one. There are just so many factors it blows my mind!

dvdnvwls
04-06-14, 01:10 AM
In my opinion, the majority of parents who I have been in contact with (mostly on this forum, not in real life) have been far too slow and far too reluctant to have their child try medication. For ADHD that is moderate to severe, medication normally needs to be the first thing put in place, because without it, none of the other things that need to be done have much of a chance for success. There are situations where ADHD is less severe where not using medication might be a possibility; however, most of the time when the ADHD is bad enough to diagnose it at a young age then I would regard choosing not to medicate as essentially cheating the child out of his best chance in life.

sarahsweets
04-06-14, 06:44 AM
I'm curious as to what your experience has been with parents medication their children that has led you to form this opinion? The majority of parents I have come into contact with here and IRL are far to reluctant to try medication. As far as diagnosing adhd, there are no actual tests but a good doctor will do a thorough evaluation and that may include IQ and other educational tests to gauge the child's current educational difficulties in addition to behavior.

salleh
04-06-14, 08:29 AM
I shoulda know you'd pick up on that Sarah ! ......where the OP gets that most parents are quick to put their kids on drugs is a ridiculous remark ! 1 of 2 things are going on here ...1) the OP is [being provocative] ......or 2) the OP is making up that statement .....

....I have NEVER read that parents are quick to put their kids on drugs for ADHD .....as a doctors daughter, I am one of the first to believe in medication .....( of course I grew up in the 50s, when we thought that pills could make any person better and cure just about anything ) .....but even I think that almost all parents think long and hard about whether to put their kids on meds .....and if and when they do decide to do that, they monitor that drug and it's effects closely ... ....

....The one thing that parents seem to do these days is to be a lot more closely involved with every aspect of their kids lives than when I was growing up .....and medication is at the top of their list.....


....the fact remains, that for people and kids with ADHD severe enough to seriously affect their lives, medication remains the very best treatment for that ADHD ....along with lots of other things parents can do to help their kids learn to cope with this disability ....

zette93
04-06-14, 11:20 AM
I would refer them to this book, that has a very good middle of the road approach, emphasizing diet and behavior as well as medication:
Parenting Children with ADHD: 10 Lessons That Medicine Cannot Teach by Vincent J. Monastra

And this video:
Essential Ideas for Parents by Russell Barkley (video on youtube)

Also this book, that is my new favorite:
Lost at School by Ross W. Greene

sarahsweets
04-07-14, 05:00 AM
Three things I tell parents of a newly diagnosed child:1- Most experts in adhd are not experts- they are just as*holes with a platform. 2-Sometimes you just need to tell people advising you on your kids to go f**k themselves, and 3-if your decision not to medicate your child is based on online reviews that are negative (think ritalindeath.com) then you cant say your being objective.

daveddd
04-07-14, 06:17 AM
When parents ask your opinion to help their ADHD child what do you say?

i say, see a doctor

MommysBears
04-07-14, 07:55 AM
When parents ask your opinion to help their ADHD child what do you say?

i say, see a doctor

:giggle: Good point.

Fuzzy12
04-07-14, 08:55 AM
Three things I tell parents of a newly diagnosed child:1- Most experts in adhd are not experts- they are just as*holes with a platform. 2-Sometimes you just need to tell people advising you on your kids to go f**k themselves, and 3-if your decision not to medicate your child is based on online reviews that are negative (think ritalindeath.com) then you cant say your being objective.


Omg, I had to look it up but that website actually exists :eek::eek::eek:

As much as I'm sorry for the loss of their son, I wonder how many children are missing out on treatment and suffering unnecessarily because of this website.. :(:(

Grief is a terrible decision maker. :(

:(:(:(

Stevuke79
04-07-14, 05:48 PM
What is your advice, most parents are very quick to want to put children on drugs and I am wondering what your response is to this question. Thanks!

Really? Where do you get they from?

The overwhelming majority of parents I know even in the most severe circumstances are reluctant to even consider medication. I think it's because of all of the irresponsible garbage they read in non-peer reviewed articles. It's sad because it's the children who suffer; I wonder if the authors ever think of that.

My advice is first and foremost to avoid any and all information printed anywhere other than an established peer reviewed publication. Getting information anywhere else is a severe disservice to their child.

Second, make sure they only get advice from a doctor and only from a doctor who has done their homework and is well researched in ADHD. There is an enormous amount of misinformation out there.

USMCcop
04-07-14, 08:10 PM
Personally, since I don't like most people, especially their spoiled rotten children, it really is not an issue. I like to keep it that way.

Vandeluca
04-09-14, 11:15 PM
Good point Crazy! You are right because my daughter has seizures..and first and foremost though she is well controlled, those electric charges that happen quiety cause impulsivity and hyperness. Medication causes irritability or some mild slowing/processing time. They have told me ADHD but in my heart how to they know. She has been on meds since age 4. She's 10 soon. This has been my main reason for putting off medication...Plus she is often 'fine'...other times I am pulling out my hair!:)

thomasl
04-16-14, 03:07 PM
I'm curious as to what your experience has been with parents medication their children that has led you to form this opinion? The majority of parents I have come into contact with here and IRL are far to reluctant to try medication. As far as diagnosing adhd, there are no actual tests but a good doctor will do a thorough evaluation and that may include IQ and other educational tests to gauge the child's current educational difficulties in addition to behavior.

I am basing this on a very limited number of people I have met, but I definitely have run into these people who are quick to put their children on drugs. It is a classic defense mechanism people display where they deny instead of dealing with the truth. People can deny things to the point they believe their own lies I think.

LynneC
04-16-14, 03:11 PM
It is a classic defense mechanism people display where they deny instead of dealing with the truth. People can deny things to the point they believe their own lies I think.
What are people denying or being defensive about re treating a child with ADHD? I'm not following you here...

ginniebean
04-16-14, 03:14 PM
I am basing this on a very limited number of people I have met, but I definitely have run into these people who are quick to put their children on drugs. It is a classic defense mechanism people display where they deny instead of dealing with the truth. People can deny things to the point they believe their own lies I think.

Yes, particularly people with pre-formed opinions. My experience is also that even in the most extreme cases parents are extremely reluctant to try meds and I have actually never met one that merrily skipped down to the pharmacy.


There are a lot of ADHD deniers and trivializers. Adhd is real and it can and does hurt individuals and families sometimes in severe life altering ways.

mildadhd
04-16-14, 07:11 PM
What is your advice, most parents are very quick to want to put children on drugs and I am wondering what your response is to this question. Thanks!

Thomasl,

I don't think medication should ever be the first line of treatment, that being said, I think that medication may also help some people.

I am curious, what treatments would you recommend trying before medication, and do you think medication may help some people?


P

USMCcop
04-16-14, 10:25 PM
What are people denying or being defensive about re treating a child with ADHD? I'm not following you here...

Propaganda from the media and all of the expert doctors that carry guns over at the DEA (aka special agents).

On a serious note, I do understand parents' initial fears of medicating their children with stimulants (mostly due to inaccurate information).

And, medication (stims) is the first line of treatment in treating ADHD. They are effective, safe, and well tested (very old).

mildadhd
04-16-14, 10:58 PM
Propaganda from the media and all of the expert doctors that carry guns over at the DEA (aka special agents).

On a serious note, I do understand parents' initial fears of medicating their children with stimulants (mostly due to inaccurate information).

And, medication (stims) is the first line of treatment in treating ADHD. They are effective, safe, and well tested (very old).

I don't find my concern to be for those who need it.

But a concern for young children who just develop slower, who are not ADHD and don't need it.

Psychoactive medication alters the brain, these are powerful medications.

I don't think, Medication should ever be the first line of treatment.




P

CrazyLazyGal
04-16-14, 11:15 PM
I don't find my concern to be for those who need it.

But a concern for young children who just develop slower, who are not ADHD and don't need it.

Psychoactive medication alters the brain, these are powerful medications.

I don't think, Medication should ever be the first line of treatment.

PThat's why I said the first step should be to verify the diagnosis. Do I believe that 1 in 10 people have ADHD? No. I think that 1 in 10 (or more) have psychological and/or behavioral problems that need to be evaluated, but I also think that many of them are misdiagnosed as ADHD.

Bipolar and ADHD are extremely difficult to distinguish in children. PTSD and ADHD have overlapping symptoms. Learning disabilities, autistic spectrum disorders, depression, the list goes on and on. Even eye problems have been misdiagnosed as ADHD.

When parents say that a diet has worked miracles for their kid's ADHD, I think most likely the kid was misdiagnosed and actually had food sensitivities.

For people with ADHD, medication absolutely should be the first line of treatment. The brain-altering effects of medication are actually positive for people with ADHD. But make sure they have ADHD and not something else.

mildadhd
04-16-14, 11:31 PM
That's why I said the first step should be to verify the diagnosis. Do I believe that 1 in 10 people have ADHD? No. I think that 1 in 10 (or more) have psychological and/or behavioral problems that need to be evaluated, but I also think that many of them are misdiagnosed as ADHD.

Bipolar and ADHD are extremely difficult to distinguish in children. PTSD and ADHD have overlapping symptoms. Learning disabilities, autistic spectrum disorders, depression, the list goes on and on. Even eye problems have been misdiagnosed as ADHD.

When parents say that a diet has worked miracles for their kid's ADHD, I think most likely the kid was misdiagnosed and actually had food sensitivities.

For people with ADHD, medication absolutely should be the first line of treatment. The brain-altering effects of medication are actually positive for people with ADHD. But make sure they have ADHD and not something else.


To each their own.

I don't think that ADHD medication should ever be the first line of treatment, to me that is like saying everyone with diabetes should take insulin.

Obviously some people should take insulin, but not all people with diabetes take insulin.

P

USMCcop
04-16-14, 11:37 PM
I don't find my concern to be for those who need it.

But a concern for young children who just develop slower, who are not ADHD and don't need it.

Psychoactive medication alters the brain, these are powerful medications.

I don't think, Medication should ever be the first line of treatment.




P

I understand and respect your opinion; however, the disorder is neurological and many, many scientists and doctors would disagree with you. They are the first line as they are safe and very effective.

Vitamins, fish oil, and talking (therapy) won't provide a level playing field for children with the ADD CNS. If the disorder greatly impacts the child's ability to learn or other cognitive problems, he or she deserves to have the effective treatment (stimulants).

I wish I would have been treated as a child. The result of not being effectively treated as a child (and into adulthood and beyond) was not/is not good.

USMCcop
04-16-14, 11:40 PM
As Crazy said, the child needs a proper diagnosis. A 15 minute conversation by a doctor is inappropriate.

mildadhd
04-16-14, 11:55 PM
I should have mentioned in my first reply to CrazyLazyGal, that initially, I was replying to the OP, and not specifically to her post.

I would still reply the same way to the OP.

I think that extra attunement in early life, may reduce the level of severity. (especially before the age of 4-10)

I think I could have used medication around the age of 10.

But I wonder if I would have needed it at all if I recieved extra attunement, to ease my over sensitive perception, distress etc.

People do grow out of ADHD, everything is not fixed for life for everyone, although many do not grow out of ADHD and may require medication for life.

There are people here at ADDF who have moderate ADHD who don't use medication as a first line of treatment.


P

CrazyLazyGal
04-17-14, 04:43 AM
To each their own.

I don't think that ADHD medication should ever be the first line of treatment, to me that is like saying everyone with diabetes should take insulin.

Obviously some people should take insulin, but not all people with diabetes take insulin.

PInsulin is considered the first and primary treatment for type 1 diabetes. By your ADHD reasoning, no one should take insulin as a first line of treatment.

daveddd
04-17-14, 06:12 AM
with severe cases medication is probably needed just to try any other treatment (then possibly meds could be stopped)

unfortunately there is no way to confirm an adhd diagnosis, its just a group of symptoms

CrazyLazyGal
04-17-14, 06:32 AM
unfortunately there is no way to confirm an adhd diagnosis, its just a group of symptomsThat doesn't mean there isn't more that could be done to verify the diagnosis.

On this board, there was a parent of a child adopted from Russia who had an undefined philtrum, unusually thin upper lip, and epicanthal folds around the eyes.

Anyone who is knowledgeable about neurodevelopmental disorders knows that combination of symptoms points strongly to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. The fact that the child was adopted from Russia means it has at least 1/3 chance of having a disorder on Fetal Alcohol Spectrum as well as PTSD and/or institutional trauma.

Yet the child was diagnosed as ADHD and treated with every ADHD treatment under the sun, both medication and non-medication. Surprise surprise, none of them worked.

Also on this board, there have been cases in which I'd say the symptoms could easily be bipolar or ADHD--or both. But the bipolar possibility wasn't explored or even mentioned.

There have also been cases on this board of children who probably have ADHD, but it's clear there is something else going on, yet the parents report that the doctors don't thoroughly explore those other possible conditions.

LynneC
04-17-14, 06:38 AM
Insulin is considered the first and primary treatment for type 1 diabetes. By your ADHD reasoning, no one should take insulin as a first line of treatment.
Not to speak for Peripheral, but I don't really get the diabetes comparison that is used here frequently. T-1 diabetics have to use insulin or they will die...

This is not the case with ADHD meds and kids; meds are a decision to be made on an individual basis by parents, the child's doctor, and possibly the child himself, if old enough. Although stimulant meds are a first line treatment for ADHD there is no doubt that techniques like behavior modification can greatly help kids with ADHD, and that parenting styles can exacerbate or ameliorate symptoms.
The combination of medication and parental involvement/ awareness is what has worked best in our family.

daveddd
04-17-14, 06:39 AM
or possibly all these syndromes aren't nearly as black and white and separate as some think

with FAS it used to be thought it was a clear cut environmental cause, now they see a specific gene interplay, and adhd in FAS should be treated as ADHD in any other

CrazyLazyGal
04-17-14, 06:48 AM
Not to speak for Peripheral, but I don't really get the diabetes comparison that is used here frequently. T-1 diabetics have to use insulin or they will die...
I was referring to Peripheral's statement, "I don't think that ADHD medication should ever be the first line of treatment, to me that is like saying everyone with diabetes should take insulin."

Actually, to say that ADHD medication should never be the first line of treatment is analogous to saying that insulin should never be the first line of treatment for diabetes.

I agree that the diabetes analogy is imperfect. A better analogy is some types of asthma. You could avoid having to use inhalers by not letting your kid play outside, take sports or dance lessons, participate in gym class, or even in the neighborhood tag game. But that would seriously reduce their quality of life. Instead, parents almost always choose to use inhalers so that their kids can avoid these problems. These inhalers are steroids and carry potentially serious, but very rare, side effects. Most parents don't blink an eye to give their kids these steroid inhalers, yet they get anxious and/or judgy about medications for ADHD.

mildadhd
04-17-14, 10:12 AM
Not to speak for Peripheral, but I don't really get the diabetes comparison that is used here frequently. T-1 diabetics have to use insulin or they will die...

This is not the case with ADHD meds and kids; meds are a decision to be made on an individual basis by parents, the child's doctor, and possibly the child himself, if old enough. Although stimulant meds are a first line treatment for ADHD there is no doubt that techniques like behavior modification can greatly help kids with ADHD, and that parenting styles can exacerbate or ameliorate symptoms.
The combination of medication and parental involvement/ awareness is what has worked best in our family.

Thanks, good point, insulin/methylphenidate, is probably not the best comparison.

Maybe my definition of first line of treatment is not the same as others.

I think of medication as the last line of treatment, meaning trying other strategies first.

Then if medication is still required, maybe it would be a good idea.

I have developed a tolerance for my ADHD med, after about 7 years, that now requires planned drug holidays, to keep my tolerance level down.

Knowing how to deal with life unmedicated is also important to me.

ADHD medication has also helped me understand myself, unmedicated.





P

Lunacie
04-17-14, 12:21 PM
I should have mentioned in my first reply to CrazyLazyGal, that initially, I was replying to the OP, and not specifically to her post.

I would still reply the same way to the OP.

I think that extra attunement in early life, may reduce the level of severity. (especially before the age of 4-10)

I think I could have used medication around the age of 10.

But I wonder if I would have needed it at all if I recieved extra attunement, to ease my over sensitive perception, distress etc.

People do grow out of ADHD, everything is not fixed for life for everyone, although many do not grow out of ADHD and may require medication for life.

There are people here at ADDF who have moderate ADHD who don't use medication as a first line of treatment.


P

Some children are so highly sensitive that creating that level of attunement is nearly impossible

... at least until they are old enough to reason things out.

Fuzzy12
04-17-14, 12:24 PM
I can't imagine that parents are very quick to immediately medicate their kids unless they feel they really have to. When it comes to medication (or any other decision really), I guess what everyone has to do is a benefit-risk/side effects assessment.

If the child isn't reasonably impaired he/she might not need medication and other approaches might be enough. However, if the child is considerably impaired it makes sense to try the commonly approved and recommended method of treatment, i.e. medication rather than wasting time trying out everything else first.

Anyway, I think, whatever method of treatment (or no treatment) is chosen, the really important thing is that the child's well being and progress is constantly monitored and that the child's concerns and feelings are listened to and considered. Not all adults tolerate medication well and I guess, it's the same for children. Besides, when I think of my experiences, it took me quite a while to figure out which med, at what dose and the dosing schedule are optimum in terms of maximising the benefit and reducing the side effects. The side effects can be significant and I guess it could be even more difficult for kids to verbalise if they aren't feeling well or to understand why.

I think, as long as you can keep an open mind and make sure that your child is ok on meds (and there is a benefit), in most cases there is nothing much that can go wrong with trying meds.

Stevuke79
04-17-14, 01:28 PM
I can't imagine that parents are very quick to immediately medicate their kids unless they feel they really have to..

Seriously, where does that stigma come from? Who are these parents that everyone says are so quick to medicate their kids?

I'm pretty sure I don't live in a cave, but it seems to me that for anyone I know addressing their child's ADHD, not medicating is definitely the path of least resistance and least judgement from their peers and doctors.

mildadhd
04-17-14, 01:44 PM
Some children are so highly sensitive that creating that level of attunement is nearly impossible

... at least until they are old enough to reason things out.
.

thanks,

I find letting the child lead extremely important in the attunement process.

After making it a priority to do what my son wanted to do first, I found after soothing his needs, he was very easy to get along with.

USMCcop
04-19-14, 01:53 AM
The below link is to an article written in a liberal newspaper and a fairly good example of propaganda in not medicating children with ADHD. The article was written by a family therapist holding a Ph.D. Keep in mind she is not qualified to prescribe medication, despite basically asserting to parents that medication (stimulants) for the disorder is unnecessary and dangerous. She lays out how family therapists can resolve the (ADHD) child's problems in short order (seven weeks).

And no, I am in no way suggesting every properly diagnosed child ought to be medicated. The decision ought to be based on the severity of the symptoms and the degree in which those symptoms impact the respective child's life, not the parents.

The therapist states, "The contemporary American home is coming to resemble a video arcade. And what child can focus on his algebra homework when there is the lure of a dazzling dose of eye candy?" She later suggests that parents these days want high performing children and some decide to medicate their children to improve their egos (parents' ego), using an analogy of getting their six and a half year old into Harvard.

The therapist asserts that many "courageous parents" turn to a family therapist, allegedly after a teacher tells the parent his or her child may need medication (for ADHD), and learn they (therapists) have a host of behavioral solutions and an array of tools to allow a child to overcome serious challenges. Moreover, the therapist asserts that if parents ask their children on a regular basis three good things about their day, it'll help their attention.

I fully agree a parent needs to constantly teach, interact, talk with, hug, and love their children every single day, but take it from someone, a former child and now an adult, that walked in those ADHD shoes, unmedicated shoes I'll add, and I still do and I always will, but we ADDers don't have an inattention problem. What we actually "have" is an over attentive "problem." We have a different brain.

Apparently, according to the family therapist, gold medalist Michael Phelps overcame his ADHD through swimming. He decided medication was an "unnecessary crutch," at age 13, and put his mind to control his classroom behavior.

I'm happy for Michael, but despite ADHD, I was a good kid. I had respect for my teachers and my fellow students. I'm happy that Michael was able to actually change/alter his brain by swimming, but don't compare ADHD with "behavior." I had good behavior, and manners too.

The miraculous therapist also asserts that family therapists can even fix a child (an ADHD child) in seven weeks. She states, "Family therapy is brief therapy, and it rarely takes a good family therapist more than sevens sessions to resolve a child's problem.

Apparently, the therapist writing the article, who prescribes talk therapy, miraculously changes the action of neurotransmitters and dopamine in a child's brain even though she demonizes medication she isn't qualified to prescribe. She ended her informative article with:

"We can encourage parents to take heed of recent developments in neuroscience, as well as to read more carefully the apocalyptic-sounding "side effects" and "warnings" on the labels of psychotropic medications. Parents would then be motivated to seek out family therapy as a safe and effective alternative to medication for their children."

I agree no parent should ever run to medication. And, yes pharmaceutical companies use propaganda to sell their drugs to you (a parent), but the reality is all the talk therapy, fish oil, and vitamins in the world will not effectively treat a child who has the correct diagnosis of ADHD and those symptoms truly impact his or her life.

I applaud parents that place their children's needs first, especially their health and safety, by allowing medication when it's truly necessary. I wish my parents had been more attune. Had they, I would have been given what was needed: medication.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marilyn-wedge-phd/child-medications-_b_834119.html

Lunacie
04-19-14, 09:36 AM
:goodpost:

Until fairly recently ADHD was considered a behavior disorder.

Now we know it's a neurobiological disorder that affects our behavior.

Treating the behavior is much less likely to be successful than treating the underlying cause

... a badly wired brain with an imbalance of neurotransmitters.

I too was raised to have good manners. I raised my daughter and grandchildren the same way.

Even when we were pulling our hair out with my grandkids behaviors

we approved of their good manners.

The oldest (now 16) would interrupt constantly and argue about every little thing,

but she always said please and thank you. ;)

TygerSan
04-19-14, 11:10 AM
I always shake my head when someone mentions Michael Phelps as the poster child for unmedicated ADHD. Yes, he's successful because he's found his niche. Do you know how many hours he spent either in the pool or cross-training?

It's a wonderful outlet for hyperactivity. But the amount of exercise he gets is great for a professional athlete with the chops to maintain it. Not sure that mere mortals would be able to in a way that is as therapeutic. Not to mention the fact that there's precious little way he could have competed in the Olympics while on stimulants (banned as performance enhancers).

Ever wonder why he is so into an individual sport, too? There's not a lot of attention shifting in swimming (I think that's why I liked it). You lock onto a focus and maintain it throughout the race as opposed to something like baseball or soccer where you have to be acutely aware of not only the ball, but also your teammates and opposing players.

mildadhd
04-19-14, 02:32 PM
I think Michael Phelps's mother had a great influence on Michael Phelps.

I think their relationships are great examples for other ADHD/Autistic families.

I think Michael Phelps accomplishments are fantastic example of what a person with ADHD can accomplish, providing the right environment and support is provided.

I was unsure if Michael Phelps took medication or not, now that I think he may not, I am more blown away by his accomplishments and want to be more like him, (and his mother)

Even if people require medication, medication should never be the only line of treatment.

I don't get this all medication or nothing ideology.





P

Stevuke79
04-19-14, 02:55 PM
So my first reaction to Peripheral was one of judgement and disbelief. But then I remembered not too long ago when I thought that my ADHD wasn't exactly a gift,.. but it wasn't a disability either. And all those on government disability or who otherwise blames their ADHD for their failures wasn't looking at it the right way or otherwise failing to sieze the opportunity.

Why to be successful with ADHD and 100% self sufficient, all you have to do is be brilliant enough that some highly technical field comes very easily to you (because everyone is), and after that it's as easy as opening up your own business where all your millionaire friends (because we all have those, even if we're born poor as I was) trust you with their life savings and pay you to think creatively as you sift through and implement large amounts of esoteric data that few people ever understand...(Because of course everyone can do that) Do that for 16 hours a day and as long as you have stellar performance each and every quarter, then ....

not only is ADHD not a disability, it's a gift!
(Come to think of it, when I put it that way, I can't seem to recall why I ever changed my point of view)

But the truth is, most people who attempt to be me, and most people who attempt to be Michael phelps, ADHD or not, fail. So you need a back up. So to say that if you have ADHD, then just be michael phelps... :doh::doh:

CrazyLazyGal
04-19-14, 03:06 PM
I always shake my head when someone mentions Michael Phelps as the poster child for unmedicated ADHD. Yes, he's successful because he's found his niche. Do you know how many hours he spent either in the pool or cross-training?Let's not forget that Michael Phelps has also been caught drunk driving while underage and smoking pot. That's only what he's been publicly caught doing.

I've had two students who were national level swimmers (competed at US Nationals, Division I NCAA swimming scholarships), and according to both of them, Michael Phelps' behavior outside the pool has been at times unbecoming of a role model, to say the least.

mildadhd
04-19-14, 03:23 PM
Let's not forget that Michael Phelps has also been caught drunk driving while underage and smoking pot. That's only what he's been publicly caught doing.

I've had two students who were national level swimmers (competed at US Nationals, Division I NCAA swimming scholarships), and according to both of them, Michael Phelps' behavior outside the pool has been at times unbecoming of a role model, to say the least.

What treatment along with medication do you support?

P

USMCcop
04-19-14, 04:44 PM
I think Michael Phelps's mother had a great influence on Michael Phelps.

I think their relationships are great examples for other ADHD/Autistic families.

I think Michael Phelps accomplishments are fantastic example of what a person with ADHD can accomplish, providing the right environment and support is provided.

I was unsure if Michael Phelps took medication or not, now that I think he may not, I am more blown away by his accomplishments and want to be more like him, (and his mother)

Even if people require medication, medication should never be the only line of treatment.

I don't get this all medication or nothing ideology.





P

I can't fault you or any parent for not first seeking medication upon a proper diagnosis. I just know for me, all alternatives are useless and a waste of time, especially as it's a neurological issue not behavior. With that said, there's noting wrong with therapy along with the right medication.

The reality is stims are crazily effective (and proven safe).

CrazyLazyGal
04-19-14, 07:35 PM
What treatment along with medication do you support?

PBehavioral modification for sure. And things that are common sense but not commonly practiced--healthy diet, consistent and appropriate amounts of exercise, good structure, etc etc.

It doesn't change the fact that, at the end of the day, many people with ADHD will need medications to function well. But the fact that medications can help a lot doesn't change the fact that medications shouldn't be the be all and end all.

LynneC
04-20-14, 11:15 AM
Behavioral modification for sure. And things that are common sense but not commonly practiced--healthy diet, consistent and appropriate amounts of exercise, good structure, etc etc.

It doesn't change the fact that, at the end of the day, many people with ADHD will need medications to function well. But the fact that medications can help a lot doesn't change the fact that medications shouldn't be the be all and end all.
:goodpost:
Agree completely...

sarahsweets
04-20-14, 11:18 AM
Peri you and I dont often disagree for the most part bu I encourage you to read my sticky in the childrens section to hear my story.

I don't find my concern to be for those who need it.

But a concern for young children who just develop slower, who are not ADHD and don't need it.

Psychoactive medication alters the brain, these are powerful medications.

I don't think, Medication should ever be the first line of treatment.




P

mildadhd
04-20-14, 07:44 PM
Peri you and I dont often disagree for the most part bu I encourage you to read my sticky in the childrens section to hear my story.

SarahSweets,

Thank You for sharing your story.

Medication works for me to.

Let me rethink the wording in my posts.


Your Sticky also makes a very strong case for the requirement of an emotionally healthy attunement relationship, essential for healthy development of emotional self regulation.

Especially for extra emotionally hypersensitive children.

Consider, for example, what life would be like for your son, if he didn't have a primary caregiver, who actually understands him, like You do?

If the essential attunement needs are met and ADHD impairment persists, I can understand how medication might be a good thing.

Maybe someone can help me with my wording?

(general example)

Artificial food coloring makes some hypersensitive humans hyperactive. Should they take medication, first, or should they try eating foods without artificial food coloring, first?

What is the first line of treatment in this general example?


P

zette93
04-21-14, 10:27 AM
Artificial food coloring makes some hypersensitive humans hyperactive. Should they take medication, first, or should they try eating foods without artificial food coloring, first?

What is the first line of treatment in this general example?

I'm making numbers up, but how what would your answer be if your statement were changed as follows:

Artificial food coloring makes 5% of humans hyperactive. 95% of hyperactive children are not helped by a change in diet. It takes 3 months to determine whether the diet change is effective. Should they take medication, first, or should they try eating foods without artificial food coloring, first?

or this:

Artificial food coloring makes 1% of humans hyperactive. 99% of hyperactive children are not helped by a change in diet. It takes 3 months to determine whether the diet change is effective. Should they take medication, first, or should they try eating foods without artificial food coloring, first?

CrazyLazyGal
04-21-14, 12:08 PM
Artificial food coloring makes some hypersensitive humans hyperactive. Should they take medication, first, or should they try eating foods without artificial food coloring, first?

What is the first line of treatment in this general example?


P
The first line is not treatment but rather attempts to further determine whether they have ADHD or whether they have food sensitivities that make them hyperactive. That's not always easy to do, and of course, some people have both.

There are signs to look for, however. ADHD is more than hyperactivity. Do what extent do they meet the other criteria?

ginniebean
04-21-14, 02:34 PM
I'm making numbers up, but how what would your answer be if your statement were changed as follows:

Artificial food coloring makes 5% of humans hyperactive. 95% of hyperactive children are not helped by a change in diet. It takes 3 months to determine whether the diet change is effective. Should they take medication, first, or should they try eating foods without artificial food coloring, first?

or this:

Artificial food coloring makes 1% of humans hyperactive. 99% of hyperactive children are not helped by a change in diet. It takes 3 months to determine whether the diet change is effective. Should they take medication, first, or should they try eating foods without artificial food coloring, first?

The statistics actually are about 1% of children react negatively to food dye and become more hyperactive.

This says nothing about impulsiveness.


Many elimination diets tend to be extreme. Not just dyes are eliminated but all sorts of complex formulations of whatever the flavour of the month. Some are very expensive as well.

The trial itself may take ideally three months but in my experience with many parents of children that I worked with. It took time to prepare the household for this diet. Then expense to switch it over, then oh darn one month in, the trial is flawed because the child ate xyz and this can go on for months and months and months.

In addition to this, the extra attention given to the child often changes the child's behaviour. Then the parent says , oh no it's not adhd or it's just such a mild case no medication is needed.

Meanwhile, the kid is getting into trouble, suffering from negative attributions, being punished, and developing an anxiety disorder to add to his later troubles.

People minimize adhd routinely, it's harmless, the teenage suicide rate doesn't get talking about, kids dying in accidents doesn't get talked about, adhd can and does kill young people, and for untreated adults, yes, the suicide rate is higher.

Anyone who looks seriously at the long term outcomes of untreated adhd should take a pause. However, we live in a culture that tells parents if they medicate their children they are bad parents. All these diets, and herbal supplements and other fad treatments delay treatment.

Adhd can ruin lives, early treatment has proven itself over and over.

I understand parents reluctance, and I consistently hear on here and elsewhere, well you have to try everything before meds. Given the sheer volume of things one could possibly try the kid could be 50 before he gets treatment.

Oh, and zette, this isn't directed at you, I was just answering your question.

Is it worth it? In my opinion no it's not.

For me, this is an ADHD forum, not a forum for kids who are misdiagnosed. I speak to parents of those who actually have adhd, freaking parents out about the false positives serves no purpose. Most children aren't diagnosed until 7-8 years old so early childhood interventions in parenting are simply unrealistic.

I respect parents right to choose for their children but I would like to see it be an informed choice.

Let them know that there is no more food sensitivity in the adhd population than there is in the non adhd population. Hyperactivity is just one symptom and starts to go away before most kids are even diagnosed. (That's why they thought people grew out of adhd to begin with)

Discover the world thru your child's eyes, there is a ton of good information out there that shows what adhd children are dealing with, instead of how you might attribute their behavior compared to someone without adhd.


Education is a must, this is not a trivial disorder.

And once diagnosed and if med treatment is tried read up a LOT on what medication side effects look like and FEEL like to the child. Too often children are punished for acting out when they're uncomfortable and have poor self control due to coming off the meds.

Ms. Mango
04-21-14, 08:46 PM
Moderator Note: It seems to me that this thread is veering off topic. Just to refresh everyone's memory, here is the original post:

What is your advice, most parents are very quick to want to put children on drugs and I am wondering what your response is to this question. Thanks!

Let's keep this thread on track going forward. Off topic posts will be removed.

Thanks all!

mildadhd
04-22-14, 12:22 AM
What is your advice, most parents are very quick to want to put children on drugs and I am wondering what your response is to this question. Thanks!


Hi Thomasl,

How are you doing.

People with ADHD are sensitive.

I don't think allergies cause ADHD, but I am very sensitive to certain artifical foods, after I eat them I feel worse.

I don't think it would hurt to discussed with your family, about any food sensitivities resulting in uncomfortable allergic reactions, stomach cramps, etc., and try meals without them, while you and your family decide if medication is appropriate.

I don't think people with hypersensitive temperament are limited to reactions to artificial foods, only.

I am going to work on a list of other pre-prescription treatments families can work on, while waiting for their appointments for diagnoses, or to decide if medication is right for their family.

P

(the article below is an interesting read partly in regards to your OP question/title.)

Dr. Schonwald writes: “Despite increasing data supporting the efficacy of stimulants in preschoolers with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) parents and providers understandably seek safe and effective interventions that require no prescription.

A recent meta-analysis of 15 trials concludes that there is “accumulating evidence that neurobehavioral toxicity may characterize a variety of widely distributed chemicals.

Some children may be more sensitive to the effects of these chemicals, and the authors suggest there is a need to better identify responders.

In real life, practitioners faced with hyperactive preschoolers have a reasonable option to offer parents.

For the child without a medical, emotional, or environmental etiology of ADHD behaviors, a trial of a preservative-free, food coloring–free diet is a reasonable intervention.”



http://healthychild.org/easy-steps/avoid-food-dyes-to-reduce-hyperactivity-and-adhd/

ginniebean
04-22-14, 04:43 PM
Some excellent information to share with parents inundated with dietary concerns that have yet to show any real empirical data. It's very difficult to sift thru and I understand that because for every one evidence based article there seems to be a thousand pseudo claims.

I'd tell parents don't give up, or come to a forum such as this. There's no guarantee of getting reasonable and evidence based information because people are people, but I think any reasonable parent can sift the wheat from the chaff.




Dietary Factors. Feingold's (Feingold, 1975) assertion about the behavioral effects of artificial
food additives is perhaps the most widely known of all the toxin hypotheses that have been put
forth to date. In particular, Feingold has contended that more than 50% of all ADHD children
develop their symptoms as a result of adverse reactions to food additives. Contrary to popular
opinion, there is very little empirical evidence to substantiate the claim that ingestion of food
additives leads to clinical levels of ADHD among normal children or that it significantly
exacerbates the behavioral problems of children already manifesting ADHD symptoms
(Conners, 1980; Gross, Tofanelli, Butzirus, & Snodgrass, 1987; Taylor, 1979). Another
commonly held belief today is that ADHD symptoms stem from the ingestion of refined sugar
(Prinz, Roberts, & Hantman, 1980). Despite its persistent popularity, this etiological explanation
also has fared poorly under the scrutiny of carefully controlled studies in which double-blind,
placebo conditions were employed (Barling & Bullen, 1985; Milich, Lindgren, & Wolraich,
1986; Milich & Pelham, 1986). The ingestion of high doses of food dyes is another dietary factor
that has been proposed as an etiological mechanism. While there has been some support for the
existence of a relationship between food dyes and performance on a sustained attention task
(Swanson & Kinsbourne, 1980), most investigators today agree that the etiological contribution
of food dyes is relatively minor, occurring in only a very small percentage of the children
diagnosed as ADHD (Barkley, 1985; Ferguson & Rapoport, 1983). Food allergies (Taylor, 1980)
and vitamin deficiencies (Brenner, 1982; Smith, 1976) have been implicated as well, but neither
of these factors has received sufficient empirical attention to warrant identification as etiological
mechanisms at the present time (Haslam, Dalby, & Rademaker, 1984).

http://libres.uncg.edu/ir/uncg/f/A_Anastopoulos_Biological_1988.pdf

Lunacie
04-22-14, 07:15 PM
Peripheral,

Are you saying that food sensitivities caused you in some part to have ADHD?

If so, you would be the 1 in 100 people who count that as a cause.

Given the other issues your food sensitivity causes, it makes sense to look to that for any issues.

But in children who do not have any of those issues, it makes more sense to first give a trial of stimulant meds when the diagnosis seems to be ADHD.

mildadhd
04-22-14, 07:23 PM
I brought up these topics because they are things that parents who don't want to rush into medication, can work on before ever trying medication.

I was giving a general example of things parents can work on, while they wait for an apointment or while trying to decide if medication is right for their child.

I think that is partly what the OP was discussing.


P

mildadhd
04-22-14, 07:38 PM
Are you saying that food sensitivities caused you in some part to have ADHD?

If so, you would be the 1 in 100 people who count that as a cause.

Given the other issues your food sensitivity causes, it makes sense to look to that for any issues.

But in children who do not have any of those issues, it makes more sense to first give a trial of stimulant meds when the diagnosis seems to be ADHD.

I am saying that some foods, environments and emotional situations aggravate my ADHD.

Even If the numbers where the 1% in reagards to food allergies, that's still a lot of people.

There is more than articifical food, sensitivity, if you look, I was giving a general example of a sensitive nature.

There are also other factors that parents could work on before ever trying medication.

P

ginniebean
04-22-14, 07:38 PM
That's the problem, this ridiculous and absurd assumption that some parents are racing off to drug a kid into submission. It's a LIE. And it's always hidden behind a bouquet of .. it's food, it's this it's that, and it's all so wholesome. But it's always in there as a message saying "if you want to be a good parent you'll do these 80,000 things first to satisfy the moralizing busybodies waiting to pounce on a parent who wants REAL treatment for their child, so that child doesn't grow up anxious and depressed. There are real consequences to delaying treatment.

namazu
04-22-14, 08:13 PM
Thread reopened.

Some posts have been removed or edited to knock the level of rancor down a notch and to keep the thread on-topic.

You're all welcome to express strongly-held opinions about treatment options (or pre-treatment evaluations), even if you feel these views are unfairly maligned;
however, please refrain from insulting other posters in the process, and try not to stray too far from the OP's original question.

Many thanks!

Vivid_thoughts
07-27-14, 05:11 AM
I think people need to look at the wider picture here - Wher eyou live and sterotypes are also involved. Fuzzy had a good post but also I live in the UK - there's not much of a trend for putting people on long term meds compared to what Brits think there is in the US. I use a steriod inhaler for my asthma, my old blue ventolin's lasted me around 2 - 3 months before, now they last me 8 months. The steriods are not the same as what bodybuilders use, there are different types are not all are bad - Also the nurse where I work said that every asthma attack ages your lungs, so what would you do?

As for ADHD meds, If my daughter has ADHD, then I would want a PRN medication - something she could take one or two days a week to assist her with concentrating in school and use for when she studies for exams. There's a great video on Youtube of a girl in the UK talking about her ADHD, again, she only uses meds on some days and not all the time.

I think there also might be a difference with parents when one parent has ADHD - the chances are that they have had to get through 30+ years of life without being diagnosed or touching medication and it did them no real harm, so why medicate the child?

Rainbows
07-27-14, 05:23 PM
I always feared the ADHD medications because of the possible severe side effects... as with many medications it may help one thing but hurt another. And these thoughts were before I even had kids. But I knew, meds may be needed no matter what was wrong. Do I think there are kids that are labeled ADHD when they are not? Yes!!! Im still trying to get answers for mine. Always make sure and double test everything possible with a Dr who can diagnose properly. Techniques, of course also help. ( We are still trying to find the right ones for my son)

When my son started his behavior from 1 1/2yrs old, and me begging Drs for help with therapy, yes, therapy and to see what was wrong with him because he was not like other kids his age. Over 6 years trying techniques on our own, books, other parents advice and techniques and putdowns how it was our fault my kids was this way...( I told them they had no clue how our life was and until they have a child with problems, they need to not be so quick to point the blame) it didn't help....one Dr finally helped us, yes with meds. Therapy is next.

Even if he was diagnosed a little sooner, would I have "jumped" no, but after years of this, I had no choice and the meds have helped him improve but a long way to go and my plan is for him to one day be off after counseling and techniques if possible.

Oh, it was my son who listened to the Drs talk about no meds vs meds and possible side effects and my son is the one who said " will it help me pass, I want them" My mouth dropped and I told him its my decision, he said "its my body and life so I want it" Of course, it was up to me, which I would of eventually gave in. I think he knows hes different... Of course he doesnt like the taste of the pill now he wont take it..uggh( he cant swallow em)


------ So, I tell everyone who asks me for help our story,( all above) listen what their story is and encourage them to keep trying techniques while finding a Dr who can help them. What works for one child may not work for another meds or techniques.

sarahsweets
07-30-14, 06:47 AM
If she truly has ADHD then she would need meds to help treat all aspects of her life not just work or school.


I think people need to look at the wider picture here - Wher eyou live and sterotypes are also involved. Fuzzy had a good post but also I live in the UK - there's not much of a trend for putting people on long term meds compared to what Brits think there is in the US. I use a steriod inhaler for my asthma, my old blue ventolin's lasted me around 2 - 3 months before, now they last me 8 months. The steriods are not the same as what bodybuilders use, there are different types are not all are bad - Also the nurse where I work said that every asthma attack ages your lungs, so what would you do?

As for ADHD meds, If my daughter has ADHD, then I would want a PRN medication - something she could take one or two days a week to assist her with concentrating in school and use for when she studies for exams. There's a great video on Youtube of a girl in the UK talking about her ADHD, again, she only uses meds on some days and not all the time.

I think there also might be a difference with parents when one parent has ADHD - the chances are that they have had to get through 30+ years of life without being diagnosed or touching medication and it did them no real harm, so why medicate the child?

Fuzzy12
07-30-14, 07:44 AM
I think people need to look at the wider picture here - Wher eyou live and sterotypes are also involved. Fuzzy had a good post but also I live in the UK - there's not much of a trend for putting people on long term meds compared to what Brits think there is in the US. I use a steriod inhaler for my asthma, my old blue ventolin's lasted me around 2 - 3 months before, now they last me 8 months. The steriods are not the same as what bodybuilders use, there are different types are not all are bad - Also the nurse where I work said that every asthma attack ages your lungs, so what would you do?

As for ADHD meds, If my daughter has ADHD, then I would want a PRN medication - something she could take one or two days a week to assist her with concentrating in school and use for when she studies for exams. There's a great video on Youtube of a girl in the UK talking about her ADHD, again, she only uses meds on some days and not all the time.

I think there also might be a difference with parents when one parent has ADHD - the chances are that they have had to get through 30+ years of life without being diagnosed or touching medication and it did them no real harm, so why medicate the child?

Thanks but I didn't mean that kids shouldn't take medication or shouldn't take them every day but that they need to be carefully monitored for side effects as they might struggle even more than adults to express themselves or to understand what's happening. I wonder if a lot of kids stop taking their medication (and consequently have to go through a lot of ****) because the side effects were too bad when all that was required was a little tweaking of the dose or another medication.

I've had to go through life for 30+ years undiagnosed. It's impossible to say if I'd been this much of a mess even if I had been diagnosed earlier but I do think meds could have made my life a bit easier and maybe avoided the comorbids ..or the extent of my comorbids. It would have been nice to have had a choice.

Bethylphenidate
07-30-14, 10:09 AM
I tell them to speak with a professional, because for one thing my ideas are very unorthodox; and for another, I'm only an expert on my "own" ADHD.

I do, however, tell people that I'm the living embodiment of someone with ADHD who successfully made it into adulthood. (Telling someone their kids will turn out like me might be discouraging, though, lol!) That yes, it will be a struggle, but no, it is not a definite life of doom.

megatuxracer
08-10-14, 05:12 PM
I would tell them to speak to, not just one professional, but a team of professionals. The individual(s) that diagnosed the child, a separate psychologist/psychiatrist (both to determine the extent of which the ADHD effects the child), and a pediatric physician (to see which medications the child is fit to take).

Then I would emphasize my own personal experiences of having gone through that.

I think the biggest mistake parents make is not going through the coaching aspects to develop management techniques. When I was a kid, that didn't exist yet. I went on the pill, damn the side effects. I couldn't eat, I had trouble sleeping, I was irritable, and I had a pretty bad case of robo-me. But at least I could focus!

I still didn't learn how to deal with emotions, overwhelm, stringing tasks together, time management, task management, etc. In my experience, medication improves executive functioning. There is no fix. Without the management techniques, your child will have to figure out everything on his or her own.

And in my experience, with adulthood, the executive functioning has become easier but has not been fixed. So for me, medication may not need to be permanent. Does that mean that it does not need to be permanent for everyone? Absolutely not! Your child may need medication forever. Or not. It depends. Talk to a professional and take it day by day.

The important thing to remember is that all of the advice that you will receive from knowledgable professionals are general principles not absolute principles to follow. It is a spectrum disorder, and something that works with one person may not work with another. They are just going based on the knowledge they know right now, which is about the brain and we still don't know a whole lot about the brain.

Mom2GnJ
08-12-14, 08:40 PM
As a SPED teacher, person with ADHD, and a parent of a kid with ADHD, I tell them to talk to the professionals and to keep an open mind. I tell them that medications are an option for some people, and I wouldn't say NO without getting the information. If you talk to your doctor and choose not to medicate? That's fine. I'll teach your kid and love them, too. Parents get to decide, but an open mind prior to deciding can help.

HADDaball
08-17-14, 05:32 AM
^ +1

Apart from simple things, like, try to give them some quality time, show them good habits and reward good deeds, the best I can suggest is seek advice from those in the know - doctors, therapists, child psychologists, parent support groups etc.

It's not my area of expertise.