View Full Version : Even casual use of cannabis alters brain


SB_UK
04-16-14, 03:59 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10768847/Even-casual-use-of-cannabis-alters-brain-warn-scientists.html

"the brain alters the way it perceives reward and pleasure, making ordinary experiences seem less fulfilling compared with drug use."
Your brain has the receptor for cannabis.
Your body reacts to excess levels of a ligand (particularly neurotransmitter and hormone) by toning down sensitivity.
You pour large amounts of a bio-active agent into the body and the body turns down its sensitivity.
Now - the 'natural' function of the receptor is compromised ie normal experience isn't capable of eliciting the required response.
Examples cortisol, thyroid hormone, insulin, leptin resistance from persistently elevated levels from a distressful environment/the wrong foods (reactive to a distressful environment).

This is the first lecture in physiology in medical school:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeostasis
Homeostasis requires a sensor to detect changes in the condition to be regulated, an effector mechanism that can vary that condition; and a negative feedback connection between the two.And probably the only lesson which needs to be attended.

All bio-active chemicals from pharmaceutical to illegal drugs are going to de-sensitize human physiology.
That's the entire basis to homeostasis.

So - all bio-active molecules which operate at the level of ligand-receptor operation ie pretty much the entire rationale of the pharmaceutical industry and all of the addictive classical drugs are off the table.

But how how how are we supposed to cure the diseases which people are falling victim to ?

Exactly the same principle as above - chronic distress leads to chronic SNS and stress hormone production leads to resistance to these essential factors leads to disease.
Particularly since stress relief drives people into fat / sugar (50:50 mix) consumption - activation of opioid system (pain relief)
- breaks the body further - insulin and leptin resistance.

-*-

So - scrap any exogenous molecule which operates at the level of ligand/receptor
- meaning that all we pour into the body (compatible with human health) will be (essentially) the raw, proper not faux organic vega(tablearia)n ie soluble fibre containing low GI veggies diet.
[though I think that a little cooking is good - or maybe I'm wrong]

- and trust your gut microbiome to do the rest
- until human evolution permits our melanin molecule to transduce butyrate from sunlight - which feeds the biome (our internal farmers).

SB_UK
04-16-14, 04:15 AM
Close the loop - a beautiful system

acetate -> generates -> melanin
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8392512
The filamentous fungus Alternaria alternata produces melanin, a black pigment, from acetate via 1,8-dihydroxynaphthalene.melanin -> generates -> acetate (feeds mitochondria - energy production) - feeds gut biome (see butyrate)
http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Radiotrophic_Fungi
This hypothesized mechanism of energy transfer was noted to perhaps be somewhat analogous to the pigment chlorophyll in photosynthesis Sweet !

We're becoming solar powered.
Chills (cf musical chills) in UV solar radiation yesterday - first time noticed
- more intense than musical chills.

Musical chills / Solar chills aren't precedented.

sarek
04-16-14, 07:35 AM
Close the loop - a beautiful system

acetate -> generates -> melanin
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8392512
melanin -> generates -> acetate (feeds mitochondria - energy production) - feeds gut biome (see butyrate)
http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Radiotrophic_Fungi
Sweet !

We're becoming solar powered.
Chills (cf musical chills) in UV solar radiation yesterday - first time noticed
- more intense than musical chills.

Musical chills / Solar chills aren't precedented.

Do you have suggestions on how to make use of this mechanism?

SB_UK
04-16-14, 02:43 PM
Do you have suggestions on how to make use of this mechanism?

So far noting complete appetite suppression with sun exposure / exercise.

So - exercise in full sun whilst fasting sounds like a plan.

Ganjin
04-16-14, 04:31 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10768847/Even-casual-use-of-cannabis-alters-brain-warn-scientists.html


Thank HEAVENS that I've never used cannabis in any form! :rolleyes:

mildadhd
04-16-14, 08:29 PM
Caffeine also alters brain (see video below), actually doesn't all psychoactive substances alter the brain, including ADHD medication?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QkvclQrEBk

Fraser_0762
04-16-14, 09:05 PM
All brain altering drugs, alter the brain. <---- Shock!

But Cannabis as well as some other drugs can cause "long term" alterations in the way that the brain receives and passes signals from one area to another.

Long term changes in the way that you percieve the world around you can often occur. You may begin to think things, or see things in ways that you wouldn't have done so before.

mildadhd
04-16-14, 09:33 PM
All brain altering drugs, alter the brain. <---- Shock!

But Cannabis as well as some other drugs can cause "long term" alterations in the way that the brain receives and passes signals from one area to another.

Long term changes in the way that you percieve the world around you can often occur. You may begin to think things, or see things in ways that you wouldn't have done so before.

I think the same "long term " physiological alterations idea occurs in some way, with all brain altering substances?

It is good to know.


To much of any mind altering substance, including ADHD medication, Cannabis, Coffee, etc is bad.



Side Note: Use it or lose it, less or more of it (in general)?...its personal, depends on the individual circumstances.





P

mildadhd
04-16-14, 10:41 PM
The blood flow goes down, after the reward (of the coffee)?

Did the dopamine reward of the coffee "turn down" the SEEKING system?

Hmmmm

No daily habitual caffeine, Headache (higher blood flow.) (SEEKING system more active)

Caffeine , Headache goes away (lower blood flow) (SEEKING system less active)

Does my blood flow go down, when I take Methylphenidate?

My blood flow does seem to go up, when I don't take methyphenidate?

Is methylphenidate (SR) a slow reward? I am Not Sure?




P

SB_UK
04-17-14, 04:50 AM
Caffeine also alters brain (see video below), actually doesn't all psychoactive substances alter the brain, including ADHD medication?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QkvclQrEBk

Yes - ditch ADHD medication and caffeine - any bio-active chemical which'll alter sensitivity of our physiological system - only allow oneself food (raw organic pure vegetable-arian predominantly).

I admit to using caffeine in this way though:
Hitting the wall training for shifting into ketosis
"an exercise program designed for weight loss. It suggests the following strategy: on an empty stomach the first thing in the morning, when glycogen store levels are low, consume coffee or caffeine equivalent to 2 or 3 cups of coffee, run or cycle at a casual pace (60% of max heart rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_heart_rate)) for 20–90 minutes," whilst on up to a 100 hour fast - or MUFA-rich/MCT-rich diet.

but am definitely willing to consider ditching.

-*-

However - ditching ADHD meds is only possible if one can eliminate key distressors (the requirement of a scarce resource ie money to survive) - otherwise the individual will self-medicate with drugs which'll cause the individual more harm.

SB_UK
04-17-14, 04:59 AM
All brain altering drugs, alter the brain. <---- Shock!

But Cannabis as well as some other drugs can cause "long term" alterations in the way that the brain receives and passes signals from one area to another.

Long term changes in the way that you percieve the world around you can often occur. You may begin to think things, or see things in ways that you wouldn't have done so before.

I think any exogenous molecule which exerts an effect (therefore via some bodily system ie enzyme/ligand) will alter the sensitivity of the system.

Eating a certain profile of food (see above - clean), with no distress (eliminate money), applying eustress (mitochondrial biogenesis) in the presence of a simple education which informs an individual of their context (evolutionary product of fundamental substance) and goal - to develop the 'give' and not 'take' reward mechanism towards losing material world attachment and being happy

- is all we need to grasp.

-*-

Distress - although potentially not chemical eg chronic psych. stress will have the exact same effect on the body as some standard chronic physical stressor.

SB_UK
04-17-14, 05:01 AM
The blood flow goes down, after the reward (of the coffee)?

Did the dopamine reward of the coffee "turn down" the SEEKING system?

Hmmmm

No daily habitual caffeine, Headache (higher blood flow.) (SEEKING system more active)

Caffeine , Headache goes away (lower blood flow) (SEEKING system less active)

Does my blood flow go down, when I take Methylphenidate?

My blood flow does seem to go up, when I don't take methyphenidate?

Is methylphenidate (SR) a slow reward? I am Not Sure?




P


Generally stimulants -> SNS activity -> vasoconstriction ?

Wondering - partly because of use of SNS agonists in asthma - whether chronic stimulation through distress - ie SNS and cortisol production
- lead to resistance syndromes of these 2 entire systems.

Cortisol agonists / SNS agonists used in asthma treatment - and Barliman mentioned PNS antagonists - in treatment of asthma.

-*-

So - all things considered - is caffeine as an exercise aid useful ?
Don't know.

It is not clear how medically sound this idea is

http://www.asthma.org.au/Publications/tabid/62/Publications/226/The-Connection-Between-Caffeine-Asthma.aspx
Timothy Mickleborough, Associate Professor in the Department of Kinesiology at Indiana University, wrote about a study in which he concluded that taking caffeine within one hour of exercising can lower the symptoms of the exercise-induced form of asthma. Furthermore, the investigators determined that although 3 to 6 mg of caffeine per kilogram of weight lowers the symptoms, 9 mg per kilogram was as efficient as an albuterol inhaler, a common treatment for asthma.

SB_UK
04-17-14, 06:06 AM
~s (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=JtCZBe-2XVIC&pg=PA116&lpg=PA116&dq=effects+caffeine+ketosis&source=bl&ots=dNRQf1FSHF&sig=D-onytXlTw4y06NIru9lBJ4t_ks&hl=en&sa=X&ei=P6VPU9P6NsGLOee1geAB&ved=0CEoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=effects%20caffeine%20ketosis&f=false)~
"By raising A and NA and causing glycogenolysis, caffeine intake would help establishment of ketosis post-feeding on a CKD"May just use as part of an exercise routine which is geared towards hitting the wall asap.

Or maybe not ??
It's certainly not necessary - so maybe not.

Really don't know.

To be consistent - I think it needs to be ditched.

SB_UK
04-17-14, 06:46 AM
Anyway - summarising
Basic idea (as described above)

Eating a certain profile of food (see above - organic vegetablearian), with no distress (eliminate money - shifting planet from capitalism to voluntaryism structure, from government by elite to government by all people (anarchy), from selective to common ownership of the material world), applying eustress (mitochondrial biogenesis) in the presence of a simple education which informs an individual of their context (enlightenment/wisdom training which reinforces the need for sustainable living) (education = phenomenological reality as evolutionary product of fundamental substance) and goal - to develop the 'give' and not 'take' reward mechanism (leading eventually to pair-bond formation) towards losing material world attachment (addictiveness propensity) and being happy
- is all we need to grasp.

Even more simply.
Human motivation is either 'give' (do for the benefit of others) or 'take' (do for your own selfish benefit) - we need to kill off 'take' and to allow 'give' to take its place, such that an individual dies and goes to Heaven before dying and going to Heaven.

The 'take' reward system (which money draws on) is the exact same mechanism as the addiction to drug - and once this path is taken - you will require more and more (exactly as we know applies to drug addicts) just as maintenance dose ie 'take' reward system is a path to a personal Hell whereas 'give' reward system is a path to needing NOTHING for happiness (escaping the pleasure/pain paradigm and entering a uniformity of mood which is nice).

SB_UK
04-17-14, 07:05 AM
Basically all that I've described (above) is the generation an individual/society which is an optimal aerobic respiratory reaction vessel ie most efficient energetic system which - of course - is exactly what we should be looking for in evolution.
Survival of the fittest.

The fittest (since all we require is food) will be those who have been sculpted (ADDers) into this (optimal energetically) efficient (at the genomic (through epigenetics) level) structure.

-*-

Desperate to add sun / melanin into the story - definitely experiencing reward mechanism firing when solar UV/heat lifts - definitely exercise more intensely when in full sun than in the shade ... ... ... but but but want us to go solar powered and for melanin to supply our gut microbiome with acetate/butyrate which the microbiome uses to biosynthesize all of the other chemicals we need to exist.

That'd be a true survival of the fittest paradigm - as we'd no longer need anything of the material world (ie that's limiting) to survive.

Karamo
04-17-14, 07:48 AM
Even more simply.
Human motivation is either 'give' (do for the benefit of others) or 'take' (do for your own selfish benefit) - we need to kill off 'take' and to allow 'give' to take its place, such that an individual dies and goes to Heaven before dying and going to Heaven.

I enjoy reading this thread, but, please keep it scientific, not all of us believe in heaven, God and all that ;) Just a friendly reminder :>

SB_UK
04-17-14, 08:55 AM
I enjoy reading this thread, but, please keep it scientific, not all of us believe in heaven, God and all that ;) Just a friendly reminder :>

Heaven 1 defined as a state of mind which has transcended the pleasure/pain duality and which is in synchrony with Heaven 2 defined as the state of the fundamental substance immediately pre Big Bang which will go on to generate what we call the phenomenological Universe.

No God unless you choose to call God - a fundamental substance with the capacity to itself evolve and generate emergent evolutionary structures/properties ie everything in creation.

Fuzzy12
04-17-14, 09:04 AM
Heaven 1 defined as a state of mind which has transcended the pleasure/pain duality and which is in synchrony with Heaven 2 defined as the state of the fundamental substance immediately pre Big Bang which will go on to generate what we call the phenomenological Universe.

No God unless you choose to call God - a fundamental substance with the capacity to itself evolve and generate emergent evolutionary structures/properties ie everything in creation.

This sounds a lot like the concept of enlightenment (heaven 1 in your description) and Brahman (something like a universal, all encompassing reality)(heaven 2 in your description) in hinduism.:scratch:

Karamo
04-17-14, 09:09 AM
Heaven 1 defined as a state of mind which has transcended the pleasure/pain duality and which is in synchrony with Heaven 2 defined as the state of the fundamental substance immediately pre Big Bang which will go on to generate what we call the phenomenological Universe.

No God unless you choose to call God - a fundamental substance with the capacity to itself evolve and generate emergent evolutionary structures/properties ie everything in creation.

I was not aware of this. Thank you for clarifying and explaining. Even though your mind spans far wider than mine in grasping, understanding and putting into words, I hope I got the gist of it... Grr, I hate it when people are so much more intelligent than me! *scurries off*

SB_UK
04-17-14, 09:28 AM
Completing the idea behind the thread

[1] Human beings have problems (eg depression, anxiety, disorder element of ADHD, all of the disease areas represented in a pharmaceutical corporation)
[2] Problems aren't good
[3] Problems can be addressed by curing them after they've happened or by preventing them from occurring in the first place.
[4] The basic problem with curing is that it will involve some agent which will alter human physiology by virtue of the nature of homeostasis (OP).
[5] Leaving us prevention as the only strategy for solving problems.
[6] Where prevention (see summary above) requires a redefinition of global society such that human beings are not exposed (chronically) to (di)stressors.

Can't lock the barn doors after the horse has bolted and jumped off a cliff, need to lock them before.

SB_UK
04-17-14, 10:00 AM
I was not aware of this. Thank you for clarifying and explaining. Even though your mind spans far wider than mine in grasping, understanding and putting into words, I hope I got the gist of it... Grr, I hate it when people are so much more intelligent than me! *scurries off*


Approaching 10 years trying to nail ADHD ... ... pretty much there now.

Sole problem is our relationship to the sun - I'm hoping for more than I've described ... ...

Amtram
04-17-14, 12:35 PM
http://liorpachter.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/does-researching-casual-marijuana-use-cause-brain-abnormalities/

In reading the news yesterday I came across multiple reports claiming that even casually smoking marijuana can change your brain. I usually donít pay much attention to such articles; Iíve never smoked a joint in my life. In fact, Iíve never even smoked a cigarette. So even though as a scientist Iíve been interested in cannabis from the molecular biology point of view, and as a citizen from a legal point of view, the issues have not been personal. However reading a USA Today article about the paper, I noticed that the principal investigator Hans Breiter was claiming to be a psychiatrist and mathematician. That is an unusual combination so I decided to take a closer look. I immediately found out the claim was a lie.

mildadhd
04-17-14, 01:02 PM
SB_UK,

My problem is ditching the unintentional distress, is easier said than done.

With the right conditions, I do think improvement is possible.

Especially before 4 (give or take) when fine tuning of automatic responses are set by the environment, the most.

And if and only if the whole family is on board.

That seems far from realistic with my own current automatic responses, but I am not giving up.

P

SB_UK
04-18-14, 04:55 AM
SB_UK,

My problem is ditching the unintentional distress, is easier said than done.

With the right conditions, I do think improvement is possible.

Especially before 4 (give or take) when fine tuning of automatic responses are set by the environment, the most.

And if and only if the whole family is on board.

That seems far from realistic with my own current automatic responses, but I am not giving up.

P

From a second ago (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1638881&postcount=7) and slightly amended.
My problem is ditching the unintentional distress

Conclusion
As described in the Rat Park experiment [By Peripheral] - you won't be reactively driven towards [unintentional distress ...] if you're in a social environment which is not stressful.

What would that social environment look like ?
Well 'Land of the Free' and 'Liberty, fraternity, egality' can only be assumed by an infrastructure which enforces material world equality.
So - a switch from capitalism into voluntaryism, in the process killing off 'the love/desire of 'money'' replaced with 'the love/desire of doing something worthwhile/moral/personally rewarding' - which represents an internal transition in reward systems which is the path towards (eventually - upon enlightenment or pair bond formation) escaping (<- meaning of life) the need for securing reward at all. Happy existence without an internal motor demanding that you do something; it's the urge to do something for reward which we're trying to escape - and the path towards selfish rewards (material world rewards eg money) which takes us further from that goal.

Ganjin
04-18-14, 09:20 AM
SB, there are so many ideas about the origins/causes of ADHD. Most are re-enactments or recapitulations of same set of factors (genes, traumatic life histories, physiological interactions, etc.).

You are the first person that I know of to point at inequality as the root cause of the social stressers that trigger ADHD (and I guess a bunch of other 'illnesses'). I don't know if you're correct, but I like the originality of your thinking.

If you are correct, then I fear we are all in deep sh*t. The world you're describing sounds so utopian. I'm curious; do you think it's something that could ever come to be? Massive social transformations like what you describe are rare.

JJJJJJJJJJ
09-25-14, 12:23 AM
The alteration does not look pretty on SPECT brain scans.
http://www.amenclinics.com/blog/marijuana-causes-long-term-brain-changes/
http://www.amenclinics.com/blog/marijuana-and-brain-changes-part-2/
http://www.amenclinics.com/the-science/spect-gallery/alcohol-and-drug-abuse/

Btw, images of ADD before and after treatment
http://www.amenclinics.com/the-science/spect-gallery/attention-deficit-disorder/