View Full Version : Is this OCD?


Stevuke79
04-25-14, 09:19 AM
This happens a lot. I'm either half asleep or possibly all asleep; it's hard to tell. I have thoughts going through my head and then a really disturbing or upsetting memory pops up and I will grab my temples and sometimes even yell something. Sometimes I'll grab my head and it can be kind of violent and loud (the head grabbing part.. I can usually muffle my words pretty well)

Like a scary or terrible memory just grabs me by surprise and causes me pain. When I'm awake I can preempt those thoughts a little better.. or excuse myself if I have to. It's kind of like needing to scream or brake something... but it's more "all of a sudden" and kind of a surprise. And what sucks, it's at night in bed.

(Anyone want to be roommates? :rolleyes::doh:, my poor wife, right? I'm thinking of the non-ADHD spouses and partners on the site. Sorry guys, I totally know it sucks to live with someone like this)

Does anyone else have this? Particularly at night? Is this OCD?

daveddd
04-25-14, 09:31 AM
This sounds like a form of PTSD

Probably related to your ADHD

The yelling is probably a form of emotional avoidance

Try to stay with the feeling a minute before discharging it through yelling

Observe it. Sometimes the avoidant behavior ( yelling) is so ingrained it's extremely difficult to break the habit

But it's possible

The avoided feeling is probably in the shame family

Fuzzy12
04-25-14, 09:42 AM
I'm not sure I understand you correctly. Why do you think this might be OCD? :scratch:

I get a lot of nightmares and I used to scream and talk a lot in my sleep. I've also got this sleep disorder of sorts called sleep paralysis and when that happens I thrash about and scream as well in an attempt to jerk myself out of it (I'm not the greatest room mate either..poor hubby :D).

I can relate to bad memories suddenly popping up for no apparent or seemingly extremely far related and insignificant triggers and having a strong reaction to them. I wonder if it's part of emotional dysregulation and the way we express our emotions rather strongly. :scratch:

daveddd
04-25-14, 09:58 AM
This used to happen to me during rest too. Exactly how u describe

During the day the restlessness of my mind would block these thoughts and feelings

Lunacie
04-25-14, 10:02 AM
This sounds like a form of PTSD

Probably related to your ADHD

The yelling is probably a form of emotional avoidance

>


It could also be a Tic (Tourette's), but it's possible it's related to the OCD.

Some people with OCD perform compulsive rituals because they inexplicably feel they have to, others act compulsively so as to mitigate the anxiety that stems from particular obsessive thoughts. The person might feel that these actions somehow either will prevent a dreaded event from occurring, or will push the event from their thoughts.

In any case, the individual's reasoning is so idiosyncratic or distorted that it results in significant distress for the individual with OCD or for those around them . . . Individuals with OCD are aware that their thoughts and behavior are not rational, but they feel bound to comply with them to fend off feelings of panic or dread.

@ wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive-compulsive_disorder)

daveddd
04-25-14, 10:03 AM
Reliving painful memories is tics?

daveddd
04-25-14, 10:05 AM
Reliving painful memories is tics?


Another example of the seperate syndrome model missing the point of suffering

mrs. dobbs
04-25-14, 10:13 AM
I have this before I am fully awake in the morning.

Stevuke79
04-25-14, 10:18 AM
This sounds like a form of PTSD .. Probably related to your ADHD .. The yelling is probably a form of emotional avoidance ..Try to stay with the feeling a minute before discharging it through yelling .. Observe it. Sometimes the avoidant behavior ( yelling) is so ingrained it's extremely difficult to break the habit .. But it's possible

:thankyou::thankyou:Daviddd - that was a great post. So so helpful. I never thought of it as PTSD before,.. I actually think that's a good explanation.

Like Lunacie I also thought it was TS, but now I think it's PTSD. And I think you give great advice in trying to stay with the emotion and observe it.

If I understand it correctly, and if I'm doing a good job of observing myself (and that second one is a big IF for anyone) I think I do that. I know what the feeling is. You are right, many of them are in the shame and self hatred family. So is what I tend to yell out.

I will try to do it more now. You're probably right that it's healthy. But in any case I know what I'm feeling and I know what I'm thinking about (though as you suggest it takes some work to get there and I've put in a lot of work to do so).

Reliving painful memories is tics?

Tics can be a part of OCD (or a comorbid of OCD, .. this is an area I'm not 100% clear or versed so I hope I'm not saying anything too ignorant) and I think the constant flash back and images are definitely OCD, but as you say I think it's more than that, .. maybe PTSD.

I don't know a lot about PTSD, but in my case it's a lot of memories, and I don't know if that rules out PTSD in favor of OCD.

Another example of the seperate syndrome model missing the point of suffering
:goodpost:
It's a good point. I think it's just a weakness in the language we use to describe these things,

Stevuke79
04-25-14, 10:19 AM
This used to happen to me during rest too. Exactly how u describe

During the day the restlessness of my mind would block these thoughts and feelings

Exactly!!

Stevuke79
04-25-14, 10:42 AM
I get a lot of nightmares and I used to scream and talk a lot in my sleep. I've also got this sleep disorder of sorts called sleep paralysis and when that happens I thrash about and scream as well in an attempt to jerk myself out of it (I'm not the greatest room mate either..poor hubby :D).

Me too. And unfortunately my wife is one of those rare people who likes uninterrupted sleep. Go figure! Maybe I should try to tell her that some people like outbursts and find that a surprise whack from a flailing arm actually helps them sleep... so to some I'm like a prize roommate!! :lol::D

When dreams become awful I can become very loud and animated like you describe.. desperately trying to get out of it. I try to remember my dreams and they are similar themes and thoughts to the outburst. They're really disturbing and kind of shameful that this stuff goes on in my head. It's hard to accept about myself.

It feels related to the outbursts and grabbing my head while awake. When I trace it back, it's the same feelings, but one is when I'm awake and "quiet minded" .. or perhaps "half asleep" .. and the other happens in a dream. Come to think of it it's probably related. Perhaps in some instances I don't realize that I've already begun to dream.

I can relate to bad memories suddenly popping up for no apparent or seemingly extremely far related and insignificant triggers and having a strong reaction to them. I wonder if it's part of emotional dysregulation and the way we express our emotions rather strongly. :scratch:

That's exactly what it is. One of the "milder" memories I actually shared with my wife. It's the only one I've ever shared with anyone and it has to do with water.. and my wife knows that when it's quiet and we're watching a movie or something happens related to water and I start to freak out... she knows exactly what I'm thinking about and what's going on. It's so random,.. or at least soooo distantly related, but I can't get it out of my head.

I can definitely feel the "see saw" of my emotions swinging wildly at a hair trigger. I didn't discuss it with my doctor but I feel it's emotional dysregulation like you say. The way I experience my ADHD, I've felt this must be a common effect, .. but when I talk to most people it doesn't seem to be the case. (probably due to my lacking understanding of this stuff) I'm glad that at least you and daviddd seem to relate to this. Another one of those times when I'm either not so weird or at least I have quality company.:D

Stevuke79
04-25-14, 10:43 AM
I have this before I am fully awake in the morning.

Right. Is the dream still present in your mind? Are you still somewhat asleep, or just still kind of groggy? (either would make sense)

Stevuke79
04-25-14, 10:44 AM
It could also be a Tic (Tourette's), but it's possible it's related to the OCD. @ wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive-compulsive_disorder)

It's a good point.. I think it must be at least partially related. Do you experience stuff like this? I wouldn't be surprised either way,.. you seem to know a ton about pretty much everything.

mrs. dobbs
04-25-14, 10:56 AM
Right. Is the dream still present in your mind? Are you still somewhat asleep, or just still kind of groggy? (either would make sense)

It isn't a dream. It is an intrusive thought, memory or flashback accompanied by feelings of being 'in trouble', having done something wrong, feeling 'stupid', ashamed or embarrassed and it is so excruciating that the reflex is to grimace, hide my face and talk out loud to myself perhaps to distance myself from the overwhelming emotion. I notice it when I am barely awake enough to notice anything. Before I open my eyes. Before I am fully awake. Then I will lay/lie there in it until I am awake enough to get myself out of it.

Stevuke79
04-25-14, 11:49 AM
It isn't a dream. It is an intrusive thought, memory or flashback accompanied by feelings of being 'in trouble', having done something wrong, feeling 'stupid', ashamed or embarrassed and it is so excruciating that the reflex is to grimace, hide my face and talk out loud to myself perhaps to distance myself from the overwhelming emotion.

I experience that exactly.. mostly when it's quiet. For me it's more when I'm falling asleep than when I'm waking up.

I keep going back and forth in my mind as to whether I feel this is related to the disturbing dreams. hmmm..

Fuzzy, do you experience the above at all? meaning the part that happens while awake?

Lunacie
04-25-14, 12:19 PM
It's a good point.. I think it must be at least partially related. Do you experience stuff like this? I wouldn't be surprised either way,.. you seem to know a ton about pretty much everything.

I'm just good at using google and putting pieces together in my head.
Sometimes they fit, sometimes they turn out not to fit so well. ;)

I don't have OCD, but I do have PTSD. At least that's what my Connor's eval says.

dvdnvwls
04-25-14, 12:59 PM
Steve... I've experienced something somewhat like this, but I'm not so sure it's like yours. The reasons I'm unsure are

- I don't need to be asleep or in the half-way state; for me it can come at any quiet moment. (Maybe this only proves I'm always half asleep? ;) )

- I get the excruciating thought and feel the urge to do something (scream, hide, etc) - but I generally have time to resist the urge to act. When I'm by myself, I will sometimes let myself grab my head, scream, etc - but at those times I'm not so sure that I feel any better for having allowed myself to do it.

Stevuke79
04-25-14, 01:11 PM
Steve... I've experienced something somewhat like this, but I'm not so sure it's like yours. The reasons I'm unsure are

- I don't need to be asleep or in the half-way state; for me it can come at any quiet moment. (Maybe this only proves I'm always half asleep? ;) )

- I get the excruciating thought and feel the urge to do something (scream, hide, etc) - but I generally have time to resist the urge to act. When I'm by myself, I will sometimes let myself grab my head, scream, etc - but at those times I'm not so sure that I feel any better for having allowed myself to do it.

I think you're describing what I experience exactly. This thread has gotten me to think about it more, and really I experience two things: 1. Disturbing memories while awake where I do pretty much what you describe. Suppress it in public or let it out when in private. It happens when my mind is quiet and if I'm in my bed, I'd like to suppress it but I never catch it - I'm just not on guard.

2. Disturbing dreams that result in outbursts or even a bit of thrashing. That's sort of separate, and of course only applies to dreams. Or at least one of the things I'm experiencing. And the distinction is kind of blury. (this one may be completely different and unrelated,.. but the feelings are the same)

dvdnvwls
04-25-14, 01:17 PM
Thanks. I've been told about (rare) thrashing or outbursts in my sleep, but I was never conscious enough to know what they were about. Could all be part of the same thing, I don't know.

BellaVita
04-25-14, 01:54 PM
Yes!!! I get scary intrusive thoughts every night.

You're not alone.

Fuzzy12
04-25-14, 01:56 PM
I experience that exactly.. mostly when it's quiet. For me it's more when I'm falling asleep than when I'm waking up.

I keep going back and forth in my mind as to whether I feel this is related to the disturbing dreams. hmmm..

Fuzzy, do you experience the above at all? meaning the part that happens while awake?

I used to have a huge problem with intrusive thoughts. I still do though it's better now and strangely it doesn't happen so much on meds. It depends on the particular thought but I either experience pain, sadness/grief or disgust, shame and self loathing. It can happen at any time and not just when my mind is quiet.

I always make a face but that's my way of suppressing my thoughts and I do this in public as well (it's the best I can do).

It doesn't exactly happen when I'm sleeping though. A few years ago, for a while every time I closed my eyes or stared into the darkness I saw what I used to call zombie faces. Scary faces with piercing eyes. If I was falling asleep at that time, I'd tear my eyes wide open, make a face, etc., anything to get the image out of my mind. For me, it never happened when I was in the process of waking up unless it was part of a nightmare.

I'm not sure when or how exactly that stopped. I know, it definitely didn't happen anymore after we moved to a new town and I was in a much better mental state. I was just relieved to be out of that hell hole I guess.

I used to wonder if I've got some form of PTSD though I don't have all the symptoms.

Do you think yours is PTSD related?

I've got a theory about intrusive, disturbing thoughts. I think, it's related to ADHD or OCD or probably both. I think, my thoughts keep flitting from one subject to another, racing. There's all kinds of crap going on in my mind all the time but the disturbing thoughts are the ones that stick out. Normal people might not even notice them or just dismiss them as rubbish but once I notice a disturbing thought it latches on and I start obsessing about it and it becomes bigger and bigger. The mere attempt to suppress these thoughts makes them more prominent.

Interestingly it doesn't happen so much on meds, maybe because I'm focussed on just a few topics. I'm also more stable emotionally when medicated so maybe the disturbing thoughts and images lose a bit of their impact and I can dismiss them before I start obsessing about them.

Stevuke79
04-25-14, 02:22 PM
Yes!!! I get scary intrusive thoughts every night.

You're not alone.

:grouphug: Bella, you're awesome. It was actually a post of yours that made me think it might be my OCD. Before that I just figured that it was natural for jerks and idiots to be tortured over all of the stupid and horrible things they have done and situations they have allowed themselves to be. And as both a jerk and an idiot, it makes sense I would be forever tormented as well.

daveddd
04-25-14, 02:27 PM
Whichever initials it fits best . It sucks

For me it was all shame embarrassing memories. So complex PTSD was most accurate

Have you read the ADHD mindfulness book. It's pretty good. Especially on negative emotion avoidance. Termed experiential avoidance

Stevuke79
04-25-14, 02:36 PM
no,.. do you strongly recommend it? I hate reading.. I suck at it.

Stevuke79
04-25-14, 03:26 PM
Yes!!! I get scary intrusive thoughts every night. You're not alone.

For you, are they memories? or things you dream up?

mrs. dobbs
04-25-14, 03:29 PM
I suck at reading too. I want to read everything... but... maybe after meds.

I would like to add that I have these during the day, but only when I am socially isolated, have eaten a food I am sensitive too or am having a stress period. There were periods where the surges were very bad and I was fighting with them constantly.

I have them primarily, consistently, without much change in the pattern, as I am waking up in the morning. So I mentioned that first.

I have diagnosed with both PTSD and OCD. However, it could just as easily be an ADHD or depression or rejection sensitivity thing. I guess the key difference might be in the way my thoughts/emotions/memory surges strike or are 'vomited up' into my consciousness. I also get visceral sensations.

I have typical OCD intrusive thoughts, they are different and they happen throughout the day- but hardly ever as I am waking . They are more horrifying than mortifying. However, the way I respond to them is subtly different. There is a cringe, and an attempt to wipe my consciousness clean of it, to rectify things. But it's more of a head shaking shudder 'ugh nonono' type thing.

They probably both have roots in shame and anxiety and I very much like the idea that ADHD plays a major role there in us not being able to compartmentalize like others.

dvdnvwls
04-25-14, 03:40 PM
I'm not diagnosed with either PTSD or OCD. The thoughts I get are shameful events from my past, a small number of things I've done that I find revolting. Most (all, I think) involve me having caused pain or distress to someone else.

Stevuke79
04-25-14, 03:45 PM
I suck at reading too.
YES!!
I want to read everything
YES!!

Sucks, right?

I would like to add that I have these during the day, but only when I am socially isolated, have eaten a food I am sensitive too or am having a stress period. There were periods where the surges were very bad and I was fighting with them constantly.

For me it's almost always when I'm alone.

Those periods when it was really bad for you, were you about my age? My doctor said something about that (I'm 35).

By the way, I know I should just look it up,.. but what exactly is PTSD?

BellaVita
04-25-14, 03:55 PM
For you, are they memories? or things you dream up?

Sometimes they're memories but often they're random graphic images and scary things that my mind makes up.

Or sometimes it's something scary that I imagine (well, it's intrusive) myself doing and it freaks me out...like really bad not-in-my-character things.

mrs. dobbs
04-25-14, 04:17 PM
YES!!

YES!!

Sucks, right?



For me it's almost always when I'm alone.

Those periods when it was really bad for you, were you about my age? My doctor said something about that (I'm 35).

By the way, I know I should just look it up,.. but what exactly is PTSD?

Sucks so bad. I think not being able to read like others has really affected my self-esteem.

I want to throw in here that I had a really good day today!

Ok, back to the topic at hand. Yes I was around 35, 36. However I would attribute the increased intensity to the stress of immigrating to a new country. There was alot of isolation, many difficult and akward experiences, many mistakes to make and lots of trial and error. So, the volume was turned way up. If I couldn't get to sleep and couldn't wake or be alone peacefully before, that and old experiences and feelings being dredged up were amplified several fold more after immigrating.

PTSD is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I think C-PTSD, Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is different in that it doesn't arise from a single traumatic event, but from repeated, long term or ongoing trauma.

daveddd probably knows alot more about it than I do. But I was diagnosed with it in 2007... one of many diagnoses. One of the main things is that I have chronic derealization.

Anyhow, Stevuke, why do you think it might be related to age? Do you remember a time when it didn't happen? Have you had other things, like irrational worries that others can hear what you are thinking in a quiet crowded room like a classroom during an exam?

Can you tell the difference between horrifying or disgusting intrusive thoughts (or are those more dreams) and mortifying or shameful intrusive memories?

I have not read the ADHD mindfulness literature yet. I have a little practice with letting OCD thoughts pass through, and some experience with presence and meditation but I am so out of it now...

daveddd
04-25-14, 04:22 PM
sounds right to me mrs dobbs

i think its all the adhd

so does thomas brown (yale adhd clinic) he calls it a foundational disorder..

read ed hallow ells review at the top of the book (mindfulness prescription)

its a good book for basic easy to practice exercises on your own, and set up for and adhder to read

I'm not pushing it, just that some of the stuff is incredibly helpful

http://books.google.com/books?id=nyaobFUD2BUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=adhd+mindfulness&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hcNaU_nKCYeN3AXAk4GwBw&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=adhd%20mindfulness&f=false

daveddd
04-25-14, 04:24 PM
i used to have chronic derealization as well

real makes its hard remembering anything for those times

daveddd
04-25-14, 07:21 PM
steveuke

I remember a time the feeling became so intense along with yelling i put my fist , then head through a wall

my doc coined it "psychotic depression" and contributed it to my bipolar 1 (i no longer have that)

its not that suppressing that particular emotion or moment is detrimental or not, its everything it takes with it

Fuzzy12
04-25-14, 09:38 PM
steveuke

I remember a time the feeling became so intense along with yelling i put my fist , then head through a wall

my doc coined it "psychotic depression" and contributed it to my bipolar 1 (i no longer have that)

its not that suppressing that particular emotion or moment is detrimental or not, its everything it takes with it

Just curious..why was it termed psychotic? Can a feeling be psychotic? I've felt similar to this I believe and I'm still trying to figure out if it was a mix3d episode ie bp related or something else

Steve.. the age issue is curious. Has thks started recently for you? Do you think it's stress related?

BellaVita
04-25-14, 09:43 PM
steveuke

I remember a time the feeling became so intense along with yelling i put my fist , then head through a wall

my doc coined it "psychotic depression" and contributed it to my bipolar 1 (i no longer have that)

its not that suppressing that particular emotion or moment is detrimental or not, its everything it takes with it

You no longer have psychotic depression? Or bipolar 1?

daveddd
04-25-14, 09:49 PM
neither

daveddd
04-25-14, 09:50 PM
Just curious..why was it termed psychotic? Can a feeling be psychotic? I've felt similar to this I believe and I'm still trying to figure out if it was a mix3d episode ie bp related or something else

Steve.. the age issue is curious. Has thks started recently for you? Do you think it's stress related?

Intensity. And the doc probably wasn't familiar with the phenomenon

BellaVita
04-25-14, 10:09 PM
neither

How did you get rid of it?

Can bipolar just go away?

daveddd
04-25-14, 10:10 PM
Not on it's own

It's for another day

Stevuke79
04-26-14, 12:24 AM
Sucks so bad. I think not being able to read like others has really affected my self-esteem.

I always sign up to be a parent who comes in to read to my daugther's kindergarten class. I have trouble reading aloud, and intoning the puctuation and proper inflection of a sentense as I'm reading. I sound like a third grade reader. But my daughter loves when I come in, and maybe there's a kid in the class who will have trouble reading his whole life.. And maybe he shouldn't have an idea that we need to be exceptional readers to be exceptionally successful.

I'll hold back the rest of what I want to say.. I'm about to get very obnoxious. :rolleyes:

I want to throw in here that I had a really good day today!
Yayayayayay!! :grouphug:

Steve.. the age issue is curious. Has thks started recently for you? Do you think it's stress related?
Ok, back to the topic at hand. Yes I was around 35, 36. However I would attribute the increased intensity to the stress of immigrating to a new country. There was alot of isolation, many difficult and akward experiences, many mistakes to make and lots of trial and error. So, the volume was turned way up...
Anyhow, Stevuke, why do you think it might be related to age? Do you remember a time when it didn't happen? Have you had other things, like irrational worries that others can hear what you are thinking in a quiet crowded room like a classroom during an exam?

I've had irrational worries, but not like you describe.

About age, when discussing my tics, my doc said that it can flare up in your 30's and then tapper off after that. At the time I thought it was a chemical or hormonal thing,.. But maybe it's the stress of the thirties...

But over the last few years, my life has become less stressful,not more stressful. But actually it is "busier" than before. Maybe that's what he meant.

[/QUOTE]Can you tell the difference between horrifying or disgusting intrusive thoughts (or are those more dreams) and mortifying or shameful intrusive memories?

I have not read the ADHD mindfulness literature yet. I have a little practice with letting OCD thoughts pass through, and some experience with presence and meditation but I am so out of it now...[/QUOTE]

Yes I can. The central theme is sort of inadequacy and self hatred.

steveuke

I remember a time the feeling became so intense along with yelling i put my fist , then head through a wall

I've done that! High five!
I was in high school. Fist and head.. Not the same day though... Or the same wall.

my doc coined it "psychotic depression" and contributed it to my bipolar 1 (i no longer have that)
its not that suppressing that particular emotion or moment is detrimental or not, its everything it takes with it
Just curious..why was it termed psychotic? Can a feeling be psychotic? I've felt similar to this I believe and I'm still trying to figure out if it was a mix3d episode ie bp related or something else
Intensity. And the doc probably wasn't familiar with the phenomenon

Sometimes I think doctors don't respect the proper terminology of their field. It's not helpful.

mrs. dobbs
04-26-14, 12:59 AM
i think its all the adhd

so does thomas brown (yale adhd clinic) he calls it a foundational disorder..



i am kind of starting to see that possibility. i am tired of all these different diagnoses and these horrid meds that cause all kinds of brain changes (receptor gene expression, excitatory neurotoxicity) and not addressing my root issues.

thanks for the info on thomas brown, and thanks for sharing the mindfulness book again.

i want to read!! i seriously struggle paying attention to what text says or comprehending what it says or even keeping my eyes on one line at a time! i am a great text scanner (looking for bits of info)... I even did it as a job for a while... but an awful reader (can't get through the instructions on a frozen dinner.)

i should stop saying 'i can't'
i should stop saying 'should'

stevuke, that is so wonderful that you can cut to what matters and go read to your daughter's class! i love love love it.

i am great at reading out loud, inflection and cadence, etc... and reading announcements and sounding all official. i read in-flight announcements to myself for fun.

it is silent reading that gives me hell. my eyes won't stay on one line or word at a time, my head won't really put together the words in a sentence to make a concept, my thoughts extremely impulsive in jumping to conclusions about what, and i cannot tell the foreground or important information from the background or supporting information. most annoying, are the intense emotions that arise from having to sit still and go word by word and line by line. it borders on panic.

if i have to get through a text i either highlight it (make it two tasks instead of one, so my thoughts shut up) or read it out loud in an accent different to my own (two tasks instead of one, so my thoughts shut up-- and i am 'listening' to another person, not myself, read.) still, my attention span is so short i get bored of it quickly.... within a couple of minutes.

it affects my self-esteem in that i can't seem to absorb information or facts. i have not read the books my peers have read. and i dread every time one of my friends wants to read a book with me so we can discuss it. sometimes they kind of stop being able to relate to me because i don't read.

but all that stuff goes in another thread. .:thankyou: