View Full Version : Should I just end it with him? Or am I overreacting?


Greengrasshoppe
05-18-14, 03:13 PM
I saw an old IM conversation my BF had with a coworker. She jokingly asked him to buy her a birthday gift. Then he asked what she wanted: candy, flowers or a Symbian (sex toy). Then he said if he bought it for her, he'd want to watch. It was from a year ago. But I'm still livid. They had 4 or so chats and he initiated all of them. He would send her a smiley face to start off. I feel, if she had responded differently he would've left me for her or cheated physically. But she didn't really let things go to the next level.

Should I just end it with him? Or am I overreacting? Yes we were together at that time.

dvdnvwls
05-18-14, 04:39 PM
There is no possible answer to "should you or shouldn't you" end it with him. There is no "correct rule" that applies.

First, most important, force yourself to take some time to think. Don't say the first thing you think.

You have a choice of what to do next. You called it an "old" conversation that you saw... In my opinion, a lot (probably most) of your decision depends on what things are like now, today, not how things were back then. If the two of you have a great relationship with some bad stuff in the past, well, so do a lot of people. If, on the other hand, things have always been shaky and uncertain and if they still are, then maybe this is the last straw.

No one could ever blame you for saying "That's it, it's over". Totally justified.

No one could blame you either, for saying "I know it happened, I'm willing to accept that fact and move on, our relationship is bigger than that incident." What he said was stupid, no question about it - but there's no regulation saying you have to leave him over that. Look at the way your relationship is today, and how much you value it, or how much you don't.

I think it would be wrong to go ahead carrying a grudge. A relationship where one person holds a major grudge against the other person is going to be very difficult to maintain IMO. Grudge means anger, grudge means nasty arguments, ... no one should have to live with that, you or him.

I guess that's my point... end it if necessary, or continue without a grudge if you can. If you know you'll hold a grudge, then be merciful to yourself and to him, and get it over with.

Greengrasshoppe
05-18-14, 05:16 PM
Extremely mature and well thought out answer. I really appreciate it. THANK YOU.

Flory
05-18-14, 05:41 PM
I would probably just forget it tbh it was four years ago ...I could be wrong but I think that a lot of relationships even the best ones have elements of cheating sexually or talking to other women sexually. Whilst it's up to you to decide what to do, I personally would write it off and move on with him. Emotional infidelity such as "I love you let's run away together" is something to worry about and that I'd be hurt over. We all slip up sometimes. If the man loves you and has been good otherwise I would just stay. If you catch him in the act bring it up and discuss it further ...some skeletons are meant to stay in the closet

Nicksgonefishin
05-18-14, 05:55 PM
I agree with Flory. It's a year old. It most likely was just an impulsive flirtation. No need to punish him now. He won't understand why you are upset about something that happened so long ago.

I would forget what I was in trouble for at lunch time and would have no idea why my ex was angry at dinner time. It's not unlike correcting a dog when it does something wrong. You don't beat or shame it after the fact because they won't understand why. Correct the issue as it is happening. You could let him know that it did hurt your feelings but you forgive him.

Also- It would probably be beneficial not to look through his phone anymore. A whole year has passed. You have both grown and become much much closer in that time. His feelings for you have deepened since then. Going through his phone will only anger and frustrate him. He would feel falsely accused everytime you asked.

Though we can be very skeptical in the beginning of relationships ADHDers on the whole tend to be very loyal people in relationships(to a fault in many cases).

Don't forgive him for his sake. Forgive him for your own sake. You don't want to hang on to that negativity it only breeds toxicity.

If you do decide to discuss the IM's with him. Dig down deep and enter the conversation from a stance of positivity.

Daydreamin22
05-18-14, 06:22 PM
Read living and loving after betrayal if you think you'll never get past it. It's like that's a small issue... But it's not. Tough call. I'd definitely consider it more. Be guided by a good book and others on here.

willow129
05-18-14, 06:29 PM
I wouldn't generalize that ADHD people tend to be loyal...everyone is different including people with ADHD

Anyways...I can understand being upset about that, I nearly destroyed my relationship for something much less blatant than that

I so agree with DVD

If you have a conversation with him about it, you might try talking about what you consider to be "cheating" and what is crossing the line for both of you.

daveddd
05-18-14, 09:51 PM
I wouldn't generalize that ADHD people tend to be loyal...everyone is different including people with ADHD

Anyways...I can understand being upset about that, I nearly destroyed my relationship for something much less blatant than that

I so agree with DVD

If you have a conversation with him about it, you might try talking about what you consider to be "cheating" and what is crossing the line for both of you.

yea loyalty fall in the morals and values realm


its not based on attention levels

op

how long were you together when he did this?

Greengrasshoppe
05-18-14, 09:55 PM
yea loyalty fall in the morals and values realm


its not based on attention levels

op

how long were you together when he did this?Just about a year.

daveddd
05-18-14, 09:59 PM
thats awhile

to bad its not known if its a tendency or a one time thing

candy or flowers with a smile would be one thing


but sex toys and watching is crossing a line IMO

maybe it doesn't call for ending it, but a serious reevaluation of the type of person he is

Greengrasshoppe
05-18-14, 10:52 PM
Yeah, it crossed a line, no doubt.

I should clarify: She asked, "You buying?"
He then said, "No, because then I'd want to watch."

That's not much better, but somewhat.

A reevaluation of the type of person he is, is on the path to ending it. Wouldn't you agree?

As for whether its a tendency or a one time thing, I looked for other IMs between them but saw none since then. Maybe they were erased, I don't know. And whether he's had similar conversations with others, I wouldn't know.

willow129
05-18-14, 11:10 PM
it's hard, that kind of comment would certainly affect my trust...

FroGpants
05-20-14, 12:20 PM
I feel, if she had responded differently he would've left me for her or cheated physically.

You answered your own question. Never ever doubt your intuition in a relationship.

I don't think this has anything to do with add and this is, by far, the best way to show someone how little respect you have for them.

This isn't just a red flag, this one's been done up with neon lights.

And you know what the really sucky thing is? He didn't delete those messages so that you wouldn't find them.

Greengrasshoppe
05-20-14, 03:28 PM
Funny, the range of answers received.
.
And you know what the really sucky thing is? He didn't delete those messages so that you wouldn't find them.That wasn't within his control.

Fuzzy12
05-21-14, 10:52 AM
Have you talked about it with him? What does he say?

Greengrasshoppe
05-21-14, 11:01 AM
Not yet. I don't know how to bring it up with him. He'll know I snooped. We've had several discussions about my insecurities/jealousies before. And he's always been very understanding and accommodating. But even I'm getting sick of talking about it although I'd say it's warranted here. Any recs on how to bring it up?

Fuzzy12
05-21-14, 11:12 AM
Not yet. I don't know how to bring it up with him. He'll know I snooped. We've had several discussions about my insecurities/jealousies before. And he's always been very understanding and accommodating. But even I'm getting sick of talking about it although I'd say it's warranted here. Any recs on how to bring it up?

I think you have to raise it with him (if you are considering continuing with the relationship). Maybe snooping is a deal breaker for him but now that you did check his text messages and you found those particular texts I don't think you can just ignore them and move on.

There are probably two separate conversations you need to have: 1. his transgression 2. your jealousy. He might try to steer the conversation away from his texts with a counter attack about your snooping but in that case you could tell him that you can discuss that later but you first need to discuss his texts or rather his attitude towards cheating and if your views are somewhat compatible.

I'm not sure how to raise the topic other than to just straight out tell him that you found those text messages, that you got hurt and that you think that his behaviour was unacceptable. I think for me the most important questions would be:

1. What exactly happened? What was the context? Was it just silly banter? Would he have cheated given the opportunity?
2. Does he understand that he did something that hurt you and why it hurts you?
3. Once he understands will he change his behaviour in similar situations (and is he happy with that and agrees)?
4. As above, what exactly is his attitude and his view on this topic and is it compatible with yours?

Stevuke79
05-21-14, 05:20 PM
The truth is a blessing, even when it hurts. Like DVD said, we can't tell you should or shouldn't. You know something. You have new information. (or maybe not so new) Some have said it was probably innocent flirtation - but you said he seemed very willing for it to go further. I would trust your gut.

You are better off for knowing what you know. Talk to him about it if you need. Know the truth. Know what you're ok with. Make a decision. Do you want to be with him even knowing he would have cheated given the opportunity? (the answer doesn't HAVE to be "no" .. you can value monogamy and still forgive him if you think you should.) Everything else is self delusion.

Greengrasshoppe
05-21-14, 07:08 PM
Maybe I'll post the convo so you all can read what actually was said. brb

RedHairedWitch
05-21-14, 07:32 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/w8SOQEitsJI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Flory
05-21-14, 07:36 PM
if we snoop hard enough we will always find something we dont like...i dont mean tat in an unpleasant way but everybody has secrets

Flory
05-21-14, 07:41 PM
red haired i agree...kinda...like emotional infidelity to me is much more harmful...guys/girls can sleep with anybody and feel nothing but loving somebody and spending your life with them comes from a different set of emotions stronger than oh i just want to bone/ sleep with this person..i dont want to see it or hear about it but i know that in most relationships infidelity happens

Nicksgonefishin
05-21-14, 07:43 PM
Maybe I'll post the convo so you all can read what actually was said. brb

Why? This happened a year ago....

Greengrasshoppe
05-21-14, 10:17 PM
So people can see the actual convo rather than my version of it.

Here it is:
*Her: If I don't see you, have a nice weekend. Go out and buy me something nice for my birthday.
*Him: lol when is it?
*Her: Next week
*Him: What would you like?
*Her: idk... Thanks for the endorsements [I guess he endorsed her on LinkedIn]. You're too kind.
*Him: I am! My pleasure. So for your birthday...bottle of wine...box of candy...sypian?
*Her: lol #3.
[I omitted some other text that seemed irrelevant]
*Her: They're expensive though... You buyin'?
*Him: No...if I bought you one, I'd want to watch.
*Her: lol

kilted_scotsman
05-22-14, 09:42 AM
That's a guy who's flirting.... if it was just online with someone far far away.... he'll be getting a little thrill but it's the kind of stuff that's "inbounds" as online things are often more risque.....

however as this was with a person from his workplace.... different....

two things at play....
1) They're chatting online out of work.... so there's more than a straight work relationship already in play...... she asked him for a present.... pushy, and flirtatious... that's the "come on" to see where he's at, what type/value of present....

He's coming back with "couple" things.... then goes waaay out there with the (big) sex toy......

and gets a +ve response to his flirtation with the lol#3

A woman who wasn't interested would have given him the slapdown right there....

After that.... they both know that overt sexual flirtation is "OK"... and she knows he's interested. The ball is in her court regarding where to go next....

I'd say you're jealousy comes from you're intuition that things aren't OK.... so he may be gaslighting you if he's saying that you are overly jealous...or making you think your jealousy is unfounded or problematical.....

kilted_scotsman
05-22-14, 09:49 AM
My view would be that it's for people in relationships to explicitly discuss what their needs and boundaries are on a fairly regular basis..... in the context that a long term relationship is unlikely to meet everyone's needs all the time, and boundaries change as we age.

Stevuke79
05-22-14, 09:56 AM
That's a guy who's flirting.... if it was just online with someone far far away.... he'll be getting a little thrill but it's the kind of stuff that's "inbounds" as online things are often more risque.....

however as this was with a person from his workplace.... different....

two things at play....
1) They're chatting online out of work.... so there's more than a straight work relationship already in play...... she asked him for a present.... pushy, and flirtatious... that's the "come on" to see where he's at, what type/value of present....

He's coming back with "couple" things.... then goes waaay out there with the (big) sex toy......

and gets a +ve response to his flirtation with the lol#3

A woman who wasn't interested would have given him the slapdown right there....

After that.... they both know that overt sexual flirtation is "OK"... and she knows he's interested. The ball is in her court regarding where to go next....

I'd say you're jealousy comes from you're intuition that things aren't OK.... so he may be gaslighting you if he's saying that you are overly jealous...or making you think your jealousy is unfounded or problematical.....

I am blown away by your skills for analyzing this social interaction. BRAVO!!

Also, I hereby Un-Dx you from having ADHD. Your doctor must be amazing - you're cured!! Seriously I'm blown away. I never have any idea what's going on with this stuff.

Greengrasshoppe
05-22-14, 02:11 PM
Thanks for everyone's POVs.
That's a guy who's flirting.... if it was just online with someone far far away.... he'll be getting a little thrill but it's the kind of stuff that's "inbounds" as online things are often more risque.....

however as this was with a person from his workplace.... different....

two things at play....
1) They're chatting online out of work.... so there's more than a straight work relationship already in play...... she asked him for a present.... pushy, and flirtatious... that's the "come on" to see where he's at, what type/value of present....

He's coming back with "couple" things.... then goes waaay out there with the (big) sex toy......

and gets a +ve response to his flirtation with the lol#3

A woman who wasn't interested would have given him the slapdown right there....

After that.... they both know that overt sexual flirtation is "OK"... and she knows he's interested. The ball is in her court regarding where to go next....

I'd say you're jealousy comes from you're intuition that things aren't OK.... so he may be gaslighting you if he's saying that you are overly jealous...or making you think your jealousy is unfounded or problematical.....

A few things... Everyone uses AIM at our job - for work discussions and social ones too obviously. So just the chatting itself doesn't mean much. It's the subject matter that's at issue.

Yes, anyone not interested would've responded differently. But that's how she is: hyper sexual, flirtatious and overtly so.

What's +ve?

As for possible gas lighting, thankfully he's not making any accusations. I'm the one saying I'm jealous and insecure. I'm that way with most other women, although this one above bothers me more than most.

The one good thing I can say is that he's been very cool when I've discussed these issues with him. He doesn't get mad or defensive. I said I have self esteem issues and he said he'd help me work on them.

Perhaps, when these IMs occurred, we had different understandings of our level of commitment. Thinking back, some things he said then make me think that. Since the IMs, we have discussed that more. I think we're clearer now. But I might need to still talk this over with him to be sure.

kilted_scotsman
05-22-14, 03:33 PM
+ve = positive....

Er I don't think you have self-esteem issues over this.... and I'm sure he's happy to help you work on them.... as long as it doesn't involve him in confronting his own self esteem issues.

If she's overtly hyper sexual and flirtatious she's going to be catnip for the insecure guy with soft boundaries... she may well repeatedly be playing a game called "rapo"... she leads guys on in order to slap them down further down the line.

When the interaction finished.... she was in the driving seat..... though he probably didn't realise it.... (young guys are not smart that way) he felt good, she felt good...

If things went on a bit he would have thought he had a measure of control... after all he knew, she knew but you didn't.... knowledge is power.

That set up a triangle where two people are linked by a common secret....
but it's a secret which is more damaging to one of the two sharing the secret if it becomes known........ so she has more power, which he would have found out soon enough if she yanked his chain.

The chain yanking is the "switch" when the good feelings go bad.

He walked right into it.... unless it's brought to his attention.... he's unlikely to learn how to identify women who play these games and how to deal with them.....maturity comes through brutal self awareness and honesty....

the best way is for him to understand where his "need" for flirting comes from and be honest when it happens and with whom.... he may then begin to notice when he's being toyed with and be able to consciously choose how to respond..... ie you don't go flirting with a hypersexual rapo player.... but you can flirt with other women who enjoy gentle flirting and have solid boundaries.

I would bet that your insecurity comes from your subconscious knowledge about his vulnerability to women who play this game.... and if this is a familiar feeling in relationships it's worth exploring... after all you may be exploiting those same soft boundaries when you establish and maintain a relationship....

Greengrasshoppe
05-22-14, 03:50 PM
I was saying I have self esteem problems in general. But yes this situation is intensifying my insecurities. And tbh he's not a young guy. Some things he should know better. But I think he's as inexperienced as I am in real relationships.

+ve= positive.. Oh duh!! Off my game today.

Thank you.

kilted_scotsman
05-22-14, 04:11 PM
If he's "older" the interaction takes on a different complexion..... I had imagined it to be between people aged somewhere up to 30.

Greengrasshoppe
05-22-14, 05:27 PM
Nope he's older than that (much). She's a bit older than that too.

So what complexion does it take on now?

Stevuke79
05-22-14, 05:33 PM
Yeah, I wanna know too. I'm really sorry for your trouble and pain greengresshop. But this is all so beyond anything I could decipher.

Greengrasshoppe
05-22-14, 05:38 PM
Thank you Steve.

VeryTired
05-22-14, 06:24 PM
Greengrasshoppe--

Sympathy to you. It's an uncomfortable situation. I think it falls into more than one part, though.

Do you want (can you tolerate) a boyfriend who exchanges messages like that with other women?

Do you want (can you tolerate) a boyfriend who may not realize why this bothers you?

Is your concern about this long ago incident or about what is happening now, or may happen in the future? Is this a one-off, or part of a pattern?

These are related but distinct issues. It sounds to me as though you really aren't comfortable with this, and that should be enough for you to make a decision about what you want to do. Leave, ask for change, insist upon having your feelings known and understood, whatever.

Let us know what happens, and all sympathy to you--

Nicksgonefishin
05-22-14, 07:03 PM
This was flirting. It could be THAT's ALL IT WAS. Probably with someone who he was friends with before you came along. Not all girls will shut you down immediatly and rudely. "lol" from my perspective is her simple way of "friend zoning" him. I'm a terrible flirt! Often I don't even realize i'm doing it. Also being sexually pre-occupied I could see how a birthday gift could go that way.

Also if he was in the game and wiser he would have deleted the messages. The fact that they weren't deleted show's how platonic they were intended.

Also you don't know how sarcastic their friendship is. It is hard to discern sarcasm in a text. expecially if you arn't the one making the texts.

Greengrasshoppe
05-22-14, 07:19 PM
Thanks Nick. He was with me before she came along. But true they're both flirts and have sarcastic, smartalicky natures. I need to PM you on your second to last statement.

Stevuke79
05-22-14, 08:14 PM
"lol" from my perspective is her simple way of "friend zoning" him.

I just want to say that I'm blown away by the non literal deductions the people on this board are able to make.

It's all beyond me; recently a friend asked me something that seemed strange and really personal. I repeated it to a different friend who is one of the people who help me decipher the NT universe,.. he then cracked up and explained she was basically propositioning me. So yeah, clueless.

Greengrasshoppe
05-23-14, 10:49 PM
If she's overtly hyper sexual and flirtatious she's going to be catnip for the insecure guy with soft boundaries... she may well repeatedly be playing a game called "rapo"... she leads guys on in order to slap them down further down the line.

I would bet that your insecurity comes from your subconscious knowledge about his vulnerability to women who play this game.... and if this is a familiar feeling in relationships it's worth exploring... after all you may be exploiting those same soft boundaries when you establish and maintain a relationship....

I don't think she's playing rapo. She has a reputation for closing the deal, so to speak. You're partly right about my insecurity.

But could you clarify what your last sentence means?

I don't mean to ignore anyone else's posts. I'm just trying to respond to things that stick out to me. I'll respond to everyone.

TLCisaQT
05-26-14, 01:10 PM
if a person I was in a relationship with had this type of conversation with another person it would NOT be okay with me under any circumstance. When you are in a relationship where the other person expects monogamy and faithfulness, you have to set up rules and standards for harmless "flirtation" and also about not having these types of conversations with women, or being alone with women whenever possible, to avoid even the appearance of this stuff, because that seems to be how these things "just happen." Also, there is no reason to be accused of "snooping" when there is openness and trust exists in a relationship and there is access to things because there is nothing to hide. My husband can look at my computer, phone, emails, facebook, etc because it's BORING, there is nothing to see or hide lol...he knows my passwords, and I could see his, if I wanted to, but I don't. Out of all the things annoying about our relationship, trust isn't one of them. Obviously, it's bugging you since we have three pages of posts/responses, so talk to him and let him know - hey, I found something the other day that has been bothering me, and maybe it's nothing, but I really need to talk about it.....

if he chooses to yell at you for snooping and not address the real issue, then that should be telling (hint: I would choose a good med time to have the conversation-it may go better)

willow129
05-26-14, 03:58 PM
This was flirting. It could be THAT's ALL IT WAS. Probably with someone who he was friends with before you came along. Not all girls will shut you down immediatly and rudely. "lol" from my perspective is her simple way of "friend zoning" him. I'm a terrible flirt! Often I don't even realize i'm doing it. Also being sexually pre-occupied I could see how a birthday gift could go that way.

Also if he was in the game and wiser he would have deleted the messages. The fact that they weren't deleted show's how platonic they were intended.

Also you don't know how sarcastic their friendship is. It is hard to discern sarcasm in a text. expecially if you arn't the one making the texts.

It is flirting Nick, that's true. I think the question is, whether or not GreenGrassHoppe is ok with having a boyfriend who flirts this way? (I think there are guys who wouldn't do that.)

dvdnvwls
05-26-14, 04:41 PM
It is flirting Nick, that's true. I think the question is, whether or not GreenGrassHoppe is ok with having a boyfriend who flirts this way? (I think there are guys who wouldn't do that.)
To add to that.. the discussion can easily get into analyzing why you're okay with it or not okay with it, whether you're right to feel that way, and so on. I think most of that stuff is just a distraction. If you're okay with it, then you just are. If you're not, then you're just not. Trying to continue based on "I should (or shouldn't) feel a certain way" is likely to fail IMO.

Do learn what you need to learn about the situation - do listen to other points of view of what happened and what it might mean - but don't take on anyone else's opinion of how you ought to feel.

kilted_scotsman
05-26-14, 05:28 PM
My last sentence
I would bet that your insecurity comes from your subconscious knowledge about his vulnerability to women who play this game.... and if this is a familiar feeling in relationships it's worth exploring... after all you may be exploiting those same soft boundaries when you establish and maintain a relationship....

goes into the more complex realms of the subconscious. It's not something that's easy to elucidate in a post. It is there to stimulate you to look for patterns in your life.... and if you are insecure I suspect they are there..... the point is to bring into awareness your own part in making your fears come true.... and this may go as far as subconsciously selecting guys who are likely to stray.... the reasons for this are varied... but strangely common.

This is the realm of the therapist.... so if it's a pattern pop along to have a chat to one.

Makennan
05-26-14, 08:12 PM
Let me preface my opinion by saying that I was cheated on, and it was a really bad situation so that may color my views just a little. Having said that, I think it's a huge red flag. It shows a lack of boundaries which can be very dangerous. That's beyond innocent flirting to me. I'd bring it up to him....just for your own peace of mind, see what he says and how he reacts and go from there.

BOOOMERZANGS
05-27-14, 12:10 AM
That's a guy who's flirting.... if it was just online with someone far far away.... he'll be getting a little thrill but it's the kind of stuff that's "inbounds" as online things are often more risque.....

however as this was with a person from his workplace.... different....

two things at play....
1) They're chatting online out of work.... so there's more than a straight work relationship already in play...... she asked him for a present.... pushy, and flirtatious... that's the "come on" to see where he's at, what type/value of present....

He's coming back with "couple" things.... then goes waaay out there with the (big) sex toy......

and gets a +ve response to his flirtation with the lol#3

A woman who wasn't interested would have given him the slapdown right there....

After that.... they both know that overt sexual flirtation is "OK"... and she knows he's interested. The ball is in her court regarding where to go next....

I'd say you're jealousy comes from you're intuition that things aren't OK.... so he may be gaslighting you if he's saying that you are overly jealous...or making you think your jealousy is unfounded or problematical.....

:goodpost:

this is like 10 years of social interaction learning that I never picked up on made clear in a matter of 10 minutes. Don't have a lot of good advice to give on the situation, but I'd say scotsman nailed your partners involvement in the situation pretty good.

Dig a little deeper perhaps and examine yourself; is this part of your own insecurities about relationships with other people? As an introverted person, I generally struggle with the whole concept of letting people be themselves regardless of how it makes me feel. I mean, they have a right to do whatever the hell they want. But the beauty of it is so do you! Be wary that this is more the norm in a social world than it is the exception, and try to deal with it from that platform. May allow you to be more open to both coping with that kind of happening from your partner, as well as accepting some of the more playful, and generally harmless, human courting behaviors that your probably ignore because of your commitment to your relationship.

Everyone likes to pretend like they are adults and that the hormonal teenager in them is long gone and that by not acting overtly in this way, they have moved on from that lifestyle. In reality, we just get better at hiding it because of social pressures to conform to our silly social construct of adulthood. In the end, if you thought your relationship with your partner was good up until you found out about these messages, chances are you don't need to tie a lot of meaning to them. If this was the straw that breaks your back, don't hesitate, break it off and go have some fun!<label for="rb_iconid_14">http://www.addforums.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif</label>

GRbiker
05-27-14, 03:32 PM
Everyone likes to pretend like they are adults and that the hormonal teenager in them is long gone and that by not acting overtly in this way, they have moved on from that lifestyle. In reality, we just get better at hiding it because of social pressures to conform to our silly social construct of adulthood.

Is this true of everyone? I know I still struggle with the "teenager" in me, even though I have supposedly moved on to the adult lifestyle of partnership and parenthood. I failed to "hide it" about a year ago and got in hot water. My spouse claims that she has no problem being emotionally and intimately committed and monogamous, that the only time she even considered another person was when we were having a lot of trouble in our relationship (pre-ADD diagnosis for me). Now that she knows that I have had "crushes" on others, she doesn't trust me, and says that I might be incapable of being in a monogamous relationship.

Greengrasshoppe
05-31-14, 02:30 PM
I still haven't talked to him about the situation specifically. But I did bring it up in general terms. Coincidentally a married coworker and I were talking about his affairs (not salaciously though) and I told my BF about it. I asked him if it bothered him that I was talking to the coworker about such things, and he said no. That led to us discussing "talking dirty." I told my BF I wouldn't do that with anyone else because I know I wouldn't like it if did that with someone else. I asked him if he was into dirty talk and he said he didn't know. I asked if he'd ever done that with anyone else and he said no. I don't think he remembers the flirty instant messages at all. But at least I've made my position on the matter clear now.

RedHairedWitch
06-02-14, 03:11 PM
The old joke in the LGBT community is that if you want a truly monogamous relationship, you need to be in a lesbian relationship. Because gays couple are rarley fully monogamous by choice, and hetero couples often fail at it, even though they try. So the only way to truly be sure, is to be in a all female couple.

Obviously its making broad generalizations and is a joke, But it has some truth to it.

Fuzzy12
06-02-14, 03:45 PM
The old joke in the LGBT community is that if you want a truly monogamous relationship, you need to be in a lesbian relationship. Because gays couple are rarley fully monogamous by choice, and hetero couples often fail at it, even though they try. So the only way to truly be sure, is to be in a all female couple.

Obviously its making broad generalizations and is a joke, But it has some truth to it.

I'm curious. .why?

Fuzzy12
06-02-14, 03:49 PM
I still haven't talked to him about the situation specifically. But I did bring it up in general terms. Coincidentally a married coworker and I were talking about his affairs (not salaciously though) and I told my BF about it. I asked him if it bothered him that I was talking to the coworker about such things, and he said no. That led to us discussing "talking dirty." I told my BF I wouldn't do that with anyone else because I know I wouldn't like it if did that with someone else. I asked him if he was into dirty talk and he said he didn't know. I asked if he'd ever done that with anyone else and he said no. I don't think he remembers the flirty instant messages at all. But at least I've made my position on the matter clear now.

I'm not sure you have made your position clear especially if he didn't know what exactky you were talking about. Also I think it's important to give him a chance to make his position clear so that you both know that you are on the same page.

dvdnvwls
06-02-14, 04:05 PM
The old joke in the LGBT community is that if you want a truly monogamous relationship, you need to be in a lesbian relationship. Because gays couple are rarley fully monogamous by choice, and hetero couples often fail at it, even though they try. So the only way to truly be sure, is to be in a all female couple.

Obviously its making broad generalizations and is a joke, But it has some truth to it.

I'm curious. .why?
The old stereotype that men tend to go looking for adventure is (sadly) not only a stereotype. Of course not all men do, and of course some women do too, but that's why she acknowledged that it's a broad generalization.

dvdnvwls
06-02-14, 04:19 PM
I'm not sure that "making your position clear" counts for that much somehow. It's a bit... theoretical. I'm not exactly sure what I'm trying to say here...

Well, I guess it almost feels like you're giving a hint and waiting for him to take the hint. First, don't give hints to people with ADHD. Second, don't give hints to men. :)

If there's something you really need to say to a man with ADHD, just say it. I'm a fairly smart guy if I do say so myself, and I take hints like a fish climbs a tree.

Stevuke79
06-02-14, 05:19 PM
I still haven't talked to him about the situation specifically. But I did bring it up in general terms. Coincidentally a married coworker and I were talking about his affairs (not salaciously though) and I told my BF about it. I asked him if it bothered him that I was talking to the coworker about such things, and he said no. That led to us discussing "talking dirty." I told my BF I wouldn't do that with anyone else because I know I wouldn't like it if did that with someone else. I asked him if he was into dirty talk and he said he didn't know. I asked if he'd ever done that with anyone else and he said no. I don't think he remembers the flirty instant messages at all. But at least I've made my position on the matter clear now.

You definitely haven't made your position clear. (at least not from what you've shared with us.)

In fact I'm pretty sure that you made it clear that you're ok with his IMs. Especially if he's been convincing himself that you're "just jealous", I could totally see him thinking:

"Oh wow, she says she wouldn't want me to talk dirty, then asked me if I ever did it. Well I can clearly get away with saying "no"; even if she brings up those IM's she can't call me a liar without admitting that she was just setting me up. And if she does, I'll just say I forgot, so either way I come out ahead.

Oh wow, I said "no" and she didn't remind me about those instant messages that I know she knows about. Those must not count... or at least I can pretend that's what I thought she meant if I get caught again next time I send similar IM's. GAME ON!!"

He just doesn't sound like the type to say, "she's probably being subtle, .. because she doesn't want to bring up how much my IM's hurt her...but I read her loud and clear,.. no dirty talk! Even on IM."

That just doesn't sound like anything you have told us about him.

Greengrasshoppe
06-02-14, 07:52 PM
Stevuke-

That's starting to sound a little weird. And he doesn't know I know about the IMs. But thanks.

Greengrasshoppe
06-02-14, 07:56 PM
I'm not sure you have made your position clear especially if he didn't know what exactky you were talking about. Also I think it's important to give him a chance to make his position clear so that you both know that you are on the same page.

I'm not sure that "making your position clear" counts for that much somehow. It's a bit... theoretical. I'm not exactly sure what I'm trying to say here...

Well, I guess it almost feels like you're giving a hint and waiting for him to take the hint. First, don't give hints to people with ADHD. Second, don't give hints to men. :)

If there's something you really need to say to a man with ADHD, just say it. I'm a fairly smart guy if I do say so myself, and I take hints like a fish climbs a tree.Interesting points. It seemed clear to me but I can see why hinting around isn't a good idea.

Stevuke79
06-02-14, 08:18 PM
Oh... He doesn't know you know? So he point blank lied?
I'd be direct if I were you.

Greengrasshoppe
06-02-14, 09:05 PM
Like I said, I don't think he remembers the IMs.

Fuzzy12
06-03-14, 06:40 AM
Interesting points. It seemed clear to me but I can see why hinting around isn't a good idea.

Unless something is said EXPLICITLY it's never clear and even if it is clear you would never know for sure if it was. Maybe other people aren't as bad as I am at taking hints, reading between the lines, reading people's minds, etc. but I wouldn't take a chance and just assume that unless something is clearly and comprehensively stated it's not clear.

kilted_scotsman
06-03-14, 08:33 AM
discussing "talking dirty." I told my BF I wouldn't do that with anyone else because I know I wouldn't like it if did that with someone else. I asked him if he was into dirty talk and he said he didn't know. I asked if he'd ever done that with anyone else and he said no

so you're saying you wouldn't talk dirty to anyone else because you wouldn't like it if he did it with someone else....that's telling him NEVER to admit to talking dirty with anyone else....

THEN you asked him if he liked dirty talk.... unsurprisingly he hedged.....

he can't say "yes" because you haven't gone there as a couple and secondly if he says yes it would seem like he's "dirty" and has done dirty talk elsewhere, so he says "don't know" in the hope that you'll say... "Want to try it sometime?" thereby opening up the possibility of moving into a more sensually exciting relationship.

The cue is his "don't know"... at that point if you were genuinely interested in openness and exploration without an agenda the response would have been .... lets find out... unless you REALLY didn't like dirty talk.... which is where you are now....

the problem is that this short snippet of conversation may have moved you backwards in your desire for an authentic relationship where you can both be sensually open and honest with each other.

Greengrasshoppe
06-03-14, 11:14 AM
wow...

Greengrasshoppe
06-03-14, 12:33 PM
He didn't hedge. He just said he didn't know, which is different. He's told me other things he likes sexually. So he could've easily said he liked dirty talk if he does. It's not like we didn't have relationships with other people before we met. If he'd done that with others before, he could've said so.

Some of you are making him sound pretty devious. I don't think he's that kind of person.

I'm not sure what your second to last paragraph means.

Fuzzy12
06-03-14, 12:45 PM
He didn't hedge. He just said he didn't know, which is different. He's told me other things he likes sexually. So he could've easily said he liked dirty talk if he does. It's not like we didn't have relationships with other people before we met. If he'd done that with others before, he could've said so.

Some of you are making him sound pretty devious. I don't think he's that kind of person.

I'm not sure what your second to last paragraph means.

I think, there is a danger in overanalysing his behaviour and drawing too many conclusions based on little information and too many assumptions. There are lots of highly interesting theories in this thread but I don't think it's that easy to fit a standard model to the behaviour of an individual.

The only way to really know what he thinks is to ask him (and hope that he answers truthfully..).

dvdnvwls
06-03-14, 12:56 PM
He didn't hedge. He just said he didn't know, which is different. He's told me other things he likes sexually. So he could've easily said he liked dirty talk if he does. It's not like we didn't have relationships with other people before we met. If he'd done that with others before, he could've said so.

Some of you are making him sound pretty devious. I don't think he's that kind of person.

I'm not sure what your second to last paragraph means.
I'm not wearing a kilt... :)
but ... I think the second-last paragraph is about your motives in the situation - I think it shows the difference between (a) asking a question because you're genuinely interested in knowing the answer (straightforward question) and (b) asking a question as part of making an accusation (hidden agenda); and that when your BF sensed that your question had a hidden agenda then no wonder he wouldn't give a straight answer. IMO this would not mean he was devious at all, just made naturally suspicious by the obvious presence of a hidden agenda.

GRbiker
06-03-14, 04:35 PM
(b) asking a question as part of making an accusation (hidden agenda); and that when your BF sensed that your question had a hidden agenda then no wonder he wouldn't give a straight answer. IMO this would not mean he was devious at all, just made naturally suspicious by the obvious presence of a hidden agenda.

This is the danger of this sort of questioning. It is not getting real information, only evidence to support suspicions.Tell him you know about the IM's already and stop beating around the bush, it could be wrecking your trust in each other by increasing the suspicion on both sides.

dvdnvwls
06-03-14, 05:19 PM
Don't lose sight of the fact that it's still quite possible that this incident is not important enough to deal with. All of the talk that's going on here, plus the thinking you may be doing about it on your own, tend to inflate the perceived importance of the actual IM conversation more and more. On the internet it's easy to get the wrong idea of the relative importance of things, like if the discussion goes on for a while and several people participate then it must be a big deal or something.

I'd never used IM until a few months ago, but in real life I've had ironic mutually-self-deprecating exchanges with people, where the entire conversation was a big joke and the tone was loaded with "Yeah right, as if...". Those conversations never included sexual topics in the way this one did, but ... food for thought anyway.

As much as possible, maintain a perspective of the reality of the relationship today. Don't get too caught up in any wave of consensus that might form; you know the truth better than anyone on here does.

Greengrasshoppe
06-03-14, 05:44 PM
^^^Great points. All true. Thanks so much. Thanks all!

spamspambacon
06-03-14, 07:30 PM
*Her: ... You're too kind.
*Him: I am! My pleasure. ...



Hiya Green,

The words he wrote above frighten me to death.

My ex-husband & I were married 19 years.

He was a narcissist, although at the time, I had no idea how to even spell narcsicc... narsissci... uh... self-aggrandizing a-hole.

IMHO, he's not communicating with her.
He's using her.
He wants his ego stroked (needs it, like a drug) and has found that making "provocative suggestions" towards females will (many times) result in a response just like he got.


This "game" between them, is a one-way street.
He doesn't care about her (and that it's her birthday), at all.
There's no commiseration about getting older, or asking her if she has special celebration plans, etc.

She's an unwitting participant in "the game", just as the others before her have been, and the ones in the future, will be.

Until...

Until he meets one that goes over the top with the compliments, and "awwww, poor baby"'s and tells him how she will take care of him.
(And he deserves to be "taken care of"; after all, he is the more important person in that [or any] relationship...)

(Okay, I just embedded brackets inside parenthesis, which means my ADHD overfloweth :))
heh.

To point out the other thing he said, that has frightened me:



*Him: I am! My pleasure. So for your birthday...bottle of wine...box of candy...sypian?


ALL of his gifts are (well known) ways to sexually arouse a female.
(Not just the sypian.)
So, he's crossed the sexual harassment line with a co-worker, and he's done it, in writing.
Which means he's getting bolder in his "play".

I fear at some point he will begin to think that "the law" does not apply to him. If someone were to go to HR and start a lawsuit, he would defiantly flip the courts "the bird".

And since the subtle & demure type of "play" doesn't work for him any more, he will seek more outrageous and higher visibility "play", making that lawsuit only one pi**ed off daddy or husband away.


Sorry it's so long...
But I have the exact IM threads between my ex and my ex-office assistant. Almost word for word.
gah!!!!!!!!


~spammy

Greengrasshoppe
06-03-14, 07:36 PM
Ugh...

BOOOMERZANGS
06-04-14, 08:50 PM
Is this true of everyone? I know I still struggle with the "teenager" in me, even though I have supposedly moved on to the adult lifestyle of partnership and parenthood. I failed to "hide it" about a year ago and got in hot water. My spouse claims that she has no problem being emotionally and intimately committed and monogamous, that the only time she even considered another person was when we were having a lot of trouble in our relationship (pre-ADD diagnosis for me). Now that she knows that I have had "crushes" on others, she doesn't trust me, and says that I might be incapable of being in a monogamous relationship.

Perhaps I made a bit of a cynical sweeping generalization. I guess I was just trying to iterate that it isn't something that most people have as underwraps as they'd like. How that gets projected and perceived by others (where I put myself in that statement) is probably a product of subjective beliefs and previous experience.

Theres a video somewhere in this thread that kind of puts monogamous human relationships into decent perspective I thought. I really think that peoples' thoughts about your capabilities in a relationship are more relative than they are some kind of fact. Monogamy is hard, and I think that makes it a waste of time for people who just aren't planted/situated in a context that they are comfortable with (ADHD or not). I don't think it is impossible, but I think there are times where an impass is met and seperation is needed for everyone to get there own clarity. The hardest part about two humans sharing a lifelong relationship is the expectation that things in each individual that make the relationship possible are going to remain the same despite everything around those components (or the components themselves) changing constantly. Especially in today's world, I can see how there is going to be a serious need to re-approach our definition of love and commitment; is trust something that has to hinge on who a partner talks with, flirts with, has sex with? I struggled with this for a while but I think once you get to the other side you see that there are genuine ways that humans can interact and be intimate with one another that opens a number of possibilities up.

GRbiker
06-04-14, 11:22 PM
Especially in today's world, I can see how there is going to be a serious need to re-approach our definition of love and commitment; is trust something that has to hinge on who a partner talks with, flirts with, has sex with? I struggled with this for a while but I think once you get to the other side you see that there are genuine ways that humans can interact and be intimate with one another that opens a number of possibilities up.

Good points, commitment and trust are things that have to go beyond just setting boundaries that are permanently fixed and non-negotiable. Otherwise, a relationship would seem just like dog training to me. We do have to have some clear expectations though, and I am certainly not condoning "game playing". But agreed, relationships are hard in these times.

dvdnvwls
06-04-14, 11:41 PM
GRbiker: I'm not sure whether I'm nitpicking, but why would "these times" be harder for relationships than other times? Not to belittle anyone's experience - just I doubt that it's ever been that much easier.

GRbiker
06-05-14, 12:18 AM
Probably no harder than other times, except for so many new ways to connect with people, and do so with private messaging, with anonymity. Exposure to so many different ways of being, endless variety of opinions, easy connections with people you might not otherwise get to know. Communication tech has brought about new challenges.

BOOOMERZANGS
06-05-14, 12:25 AM
GRbiker: I'm not sure whether I'm nitpicking, but why would "these times" be harder for relationships than other times? Not to belittle anyone's experience - just I doubt that it's ever been that much easier.

Yes and no. I think its harder to be certain now than it has ever been before. Massive social and economic change world wide I think has just made everyone really tentative it seems. Again this may be me projecting my experience but I do think there is a wider collective conscious about this subject that has allowed this conversation to finally begin to develop meaningfully; that is, people, and not just individuals on their own, are seeming to bond around the idea that there is a level of certainty that we portray in societies that has a kind of unwarranted authority over our actions.

I guess what I'm saying is people are realizing that we aren't limited to a single option for things anymore, but how we deal with that freedom is still being worked out in the minds of individuals. And as a result, people's actions have become much less predictable. The effect that has had on relationships between people has really shaken the traditional foundations of what we perceive as a loving, committed, intimate relationship. If that makes sense...

kilted_scotsman
06-05-14, 08:05 AM
It's easier now because the envelope of "acceptable" behaviour has moved in western cultures.

Divorce, homosexuality, single parenthood/out of wedlock pregnancy etc do not result in social ostracism and the workhouse.

however despite these changes we still can't talk about our foolishness when we have a crush on someone.... for that will shake the foundations of our family, affect our kids and cause all sorts of ramifications far and wide in our lives....

We are all on a learning journey.... sometimes we need to be a bit foolish to learn a lesson, but it's important that we admit our foolishness to our partners.... too much foolishness without learning is not good....

too little foolishness and we do not learn.....

the other side is that sometimes we come across wise people who have much to teach us... it is not foolish to learn from them..... even if this means diving deep into them and offering ourselves up.

The difficulty is telling the difference.... and unfortunately we usually have to be foolish a few times before we can spot this.

In relational terms we often don't admit sexual foolishness to our partners because it places them in a powerful position.... they decide what to do.... does the relationship continue... or not.... has learning occurred and how do the relational rules get adjusted?

To admit foolishness means to risk loneliness.... the fear of which is often the thing that drove us to the foolishness in the first place.

Fuzzy12
06-05-14, 10:24 AM
Spambacon, I'm really sorry about the bad experience you've had with your ex and I can only imagine how traumatising that must have been. I think though that it's impossible to say if grasshopper and her boyfriend are in a similar position and I think we are being a bit unfair to her boyfriend by assuming all these terrible things about him based on very little information.

I do think that the IMS conversation in question could have been quite harmless. Who knows what the context was?? Maybe there was a running joke about sypian and "watching" in the office going on at that time.

I really believe that grasshopper and her boyfriend need to have an honest and detailed discussion about this topic to know where they both stand and if their attitudes are compatible but right now, I think, neither we nor grashopper should jump to conclusions or assign meaning to a few IM messages.


Hiya Green,

The words he wrote above frighten me to death.

My ex-husband & I were married 19 years.

He was a narcissist, although at the time, I had no idea how to even spell narcsicc... narsissci... uh... self-aggrandizing a-hole.

IMHO, he's not communicating with her.
He's using her.
He wants his ego stroked (needs it, like a drug) and has found that making "provocative suggestions" towards females will (many times) result in a response just like he got.


This "game" between them, is a one-way street.
He doesn't care about her (and that it's her birthday), at all.
There's no commiseration about getting older, or asking her if she has special celebration plans, etc.

She's an unwitting participant in "the game", just as the others before her have been, and the ones in the future, will be.

Until...

Until he meets one that goes over the top with the compliments, and "awwww, poor baby"'s and tells him how she will take care of him.
(And he deserves to be "taken care of"; after all, he is the more important person in that [or any] relationship...)

(Okay, I just embedded brackets inside parenthesis, which means my ADHD overfloweth :))
heh.

To point out the other thing he said, that has frightened me:



ALL of his gifts are (well known) ways to sexually arouse a female.
(Not just the sypian.)
So, he's crossed the sexual harassment line with a co-worker, and he's done it, in writing.
Which means he's getting bolder in his "play".

I fear at some point he will begin to think that "the law" does not apply to him. If someone were to go to HR and start a lawsuit, he would defiantly flip the courts "the bird".

And since the subtle & demure type of "play" doesn't work for him any more, he will seek more outrageous and higher visibility "play", making that lawsuit only one pi**ed off daddy or husband away.


Sorry it's so long...
But I have the exact IM threads between my ex and my ex-office assistant. Almost word for word.
gah!!!!!!!!


~spammy

GRbiker
06-05-14, 11:06 AM
Fuzzy, that's what I've thought. Workplace humor varies widely in acceptability, and might seem shocking out of context. I work in an environment of highly intelligent, creative people, and sometimes I'm shocked at what passes for humor between some co-workers. I'm for cutting the guy some slack.

Greengrasshoppe
06-13-14, 09:37 PM
Interesting wrinkle in events here. My BF told me that he's basically not spoken to the woman for weeks now. Partly I think it's because he said he'd try to avoid her because I'm so uncomfortable with her. But she also PMd him on FB and commented on a photo, telling him how hot his old GF was. I guess her comments got a little overboard and he thought she might be hitting on him. All that, combined with her making a drunken fool of herself and randomly hooking up with 3+ guys at a company event (it was only a 4-day event!), seemed to gross him out. So he kind of ignores her now, as do I.

kilted_scotsman
06-14-14, 02:00 PM
hmm sounds like he's noticed his foolishness.....

The question is WHY he got hooked into playing the game.... if he can get to grips with that he will learn and become a more authentic man.

Then he'll notice that flirting with the next siren who flashes her available sign might not be the best way to get his stimulatory needs met.

Greengrasshoppe
06-14-14, 05:01 PM
ADD impulsivity? Wanting to find out what the hoopla over her was about? idk good question

Greengrasshoppe
08-18-14, 08:27 PM
I guess some of you were right. It seems my BF saw the convos as a bit of raunchy humor but nothing serious. The woman's promiscuous ways have become commonly known in the office now. But back when the BF was talking to her, he thought it was all an act. Why a grown woman would pretend to be sleazy, I don't know. She did something tacky again today so I said to my BF, "...and you didn't believe me when I first told you how she was. You used to flirt with her."

He replied, "Yeah kind of but not seriously. I thought it [her raunchy] behavior was an act." I asked, "So you wouldn't have flirted if you knew how she really was?" He shook his head and made a face as if to say No way!