My wife taught me a lot about this stuff by her fine example.

When I was much more toxic to relationships than I am now, she learnt how to get free of my destructive ways without losing sight of her love for me or her ability to care for herself.

I was very fortunate to have her example to follow. This concept has been very effective in helping to define what is mine and what is not mine during emotionally challenging times.
Ian.


http://www.anonymityone.com/faq46.htm
Detaching With Love

How Detaching Can Be Loving For All

By Wayland Myers, Ph.D
"Detachment is a means whereby we allow others the opportunity to learn how to care for themselves better." This statement helped me make a quantum leap in my understanding of how detaching from others could be loving. Last month, I shared that I heard this from a family program counselor. Hearing her left me amazed and disoriented. For the first time, I began realizing that abstaining from my attempts to protect or manage others could be a gift to them.

That was nine year ago. Today I have a fuller definition of loving detachment. Currently, I consider myself lovingly detached when I am willing and able to compassionately allow others to be different from me, to be self-directed, and to be responsible for taking care of themselves. Using this definition, I have come to realize that detachment is loving for everyone involved. In this article I will share my beliefs about four ways that detachment is loving for those I care about, and four ways that it is loving for me.

How detachment is loving others

1. Those I care for might learn to look within, and trust themselves for self-direction, including when and how to ask for help.

If I refrain from trying to manage their problematic situation, the people, I care about may learn something about thinking for themselves, problem solving, and when and how to ask for help. They might learn to better listen to their feelings and intuitions, to heed those little voices we all wish we listened-to more. They might learn to better recognize when they want help and how to request it in ways that leave them feeling good rather than embarrassed or ashamed. In short, letting them manage their own affairs gives them the opportunity to draw on their own inner resources, instead of mine, and from this direct experience of their abilities, no matter how groping or uncertain, they can build competence and may thereby increase their confidence. I believe this is the No. I and most natural avenue leading to increased self-esteem.

2. They might learn more about cause and effect.

My not intervening allows others to have an uninterrupted experience of the cause and effect relationship between their actions and the natural consequences of those actions. In this way, they have a direct encounter with their personal power to contribute to their own pleasure or pain. Allowing people to have appropriate sized, real problems, and real responsibility for working out their solutions, seem to greatly facilitate this learning.

3. They might experience the motivation to continue on or change.

Pleasurable and painful experiences often provide us the motivation to repeat what brought satisfaction and change what didn't. We all use this kind of emotional energy to move us forward in life. These motivating energies arise naturally from within and feel much better to respond to than the attempts by others to motivate us through guilt, fear and other forms of coercion.

4. Self discovery and enjoyment might occur. If I grant others the freedom to think, feel, value, perceive, etc. as they wish, and they relax because they feel respected and safe, they might discover many new things about themselves. They might discover what they really like, feel or think. They might have moments of creative insight that inspire, excite and encourage them. They might invent new, more satisfying dreams for their lives than ever would have appeared under the pressure of my controlling presence.

Whenever I find myself struggling with the impulse to step in and begin trying to manage another life, or solve his or her problems, I find it helpful to review the four points just presented. They strongly motivate me to remain lovingly detached.

Now, how about the ways loving detachment benefits me?

How detachment is loving for me

1. I am relieved of the strain of attempting the impossible.

By carefully reviewing my experiences of trying to control other people's physical behavior, sobriety, health, learning, emotions and opinions, I have come to one conclusion. The only thing I might be able to control is a person's physical behavior that requires that I possess enough physical strength and am willing to use it. If I accept my powerlessness to control the other things, the inner lives and wills of others, then I relieve myself of the stress and strain of attempting the impossible. This is a primary way for me to create more serenity in my life. In fact, if I practice this process deeply enough, I sometimes reach the point where I form no opinion about what another should do. This is a truly liberated and refreshing moment for us both.

2. What other people)think of me can become none of my business.

If I am powerless to control the thoughts, perceptions, values or emotions of another, then I can liberate myself by accepting that their opinions of me are none of my business. Accepting this as fact, I not only free myself, but the other person as well, because I cease my attempts to control their inner workings.

3. My attention and energy are freed to focus on improving my own life.

I have plenty of problem areas in my own life. Obsessing about another life can help me avoid the pain within mine. But the time and energy I spend obsessing about another life I don't spend on mine, and if I do this enough, my life stays at its current level of unmanageability or gets worse. Loving detachment gives me the opportunity to invest my energies in my life.

4. I can express my love or caring in ways that bring me joy and satisfaction.

When someone I care for is struggling with a problem, or feeling some kind of pain, I usually want to be supportive or helpful. But, I want to offer the kind of help that would bring me joy to offer and them joy to receive. One of the ways that I have developed a picture of what this help could look like is to recall the times when caring friends or others have offered me assistance in ways that I enjoyed. What did they do? While showing no sign that they felt responsible for solving my problems, they offered me four things:

* Their compassionate, empathic understanding of how I perceived and fell about my situation.

* Their experiences and learning from similar situations for my consideration.

* Their genuine optimism about my abilities to work through my struggles.

* Their willingness to help, on my terms, in ways that were congruent with their needs. To be offered understanding, companionship, encouragement and assistance, but not interference, is the most satisfying help I have known. Offering this to others increases both the joys in my life and my self-esteem.

Looking at the eight ways that I see detachment as being loving, I conclude that the most basic reason for practicing it is to provide an opportunity for people's lives to be improved. The lives of those I love may be improved because I respect their powers of self-care enough to let them have a chance to reap the potential benefits of struggling, learning and succeeding on their own. My life is improved because I avoid unnecessary distress, retain energy I might have wasted, and offer caring and support in ways that bring me joy. In these ways loving detachment plays a powerful and rewarding role in helping me to both live and let live.

I loved this and will pass it on.

And so will I.........Beautful and profound. :)

This is great. This fits me to a T.

I am AD/HD and I suspect my wife is AD/HD without (inattentive). It was getting to the point in our relationship (me pre-diagnosis) that I was totally keeping my wife afloat. She was feeling controlled, but I was doing it to help her. For example, she would put her key in some wierd place and I would move them to a central location where our keys go. Our van would be a mess with CD's outside of their cases and papers all over the place. I would constantly reminder her about appointments. I would pick up after her in the house (shoes, clothes, dishes). I would do these things because, if I didn't I would have to deal with her guilt and anger.

Guess what? :)

I stopped!

She started to miss doctor appointments, the van became a mess and her favorite CD's got scratched and wouldn't play, she could never find her keys and the shoes and dishes would pile up.

I eventually learned to do this with the help counseling and my diagnosis.

Very profound. I must go ponder this and see how I can apply it to me and my family. If only I could teach my parents.........

Thank you for this post........ It's infor. I need to be reminded of.........

That was beautiful, Itschaotic, I've been struggling mightily with that very question.

Saved.

Thanks. That is a going to be mailed to several people...

Once I got my head around this concept I made many more strides toward being the person I always dreamt I could be. It freed up a tremendous amount of energy.

It's bitter sweet when I watch others suffer as I once did. Compassion and empathy are skills worth persuing. I'm so glad people seem to have found this topic useful.
Cheers! Ian

I guess emotional emeshment is the all, in the all or nothing state which frequently accompanies ADD!! What a wonderful way to say I am frreeing you to be you so I can be free to be me!!! I seem to add an emeshed person in my life, and then immediatly move in only to move out due to being suffocated!!

Now for the realy question HOW did your wife effectively cope during those dark and controling years you mentioned?(of nine if I remember) Enquiring minds want to know. She sounds awsom!!!!

Would also like to pass this on to partner if okay. Maybe an open door for discussion possibly another reason for defensiveness who knows(suffocated minds don't care at this point)!!!

Well done!!!

My dear wife coped, by going to a lot of meetings of Alanon. She was at wits end, and had nowhere else to go. A docto of mine suggested that she might benefit from meetings, so I granted her permission to go.

Woe is me to have to admit to such a controlling nature! :o

I was a complete loser. By that I mean that there was no place in my life that was functioning. I was controlling, angry, verbally abusive, mean spirited and just plain miserable all the time.

She had to get free somehow, because she could not carry on. Over two years, with regular attendance at meetings, she got free. She was lucky in that she was low enough to do what was suggested. When new to these concepts, it's often difficult to accept the changes until one is absolutely out of gas and has hit rock bottom.

PU got free of blame and resentment. She became truly detached.

It was a brutal life threatening time for me. I was lucky, and looked at her happiness and thought I might like some of that for myself. I began attending meetings of AA three and four nights a week some times, and slowly things got better. That first year after I dried out was a very dark period in my life.

A thirty year old man with the emotional development of a 14 year old boy is a painful wake up call.

It was years before the tables turned completely so that PU was seeking some of what I had. Now my skills in self care are helping to lead her not to drive herself into the ground with a work ethic that is very intense. The cycle continues, and the principles of detaching are some of the strongest teaching methods I've ever witnessed.
Cheers! Ian.

Thanks Ian, I had forgotten about alanon. I too have had the curse of addiction in my life. Funny thing about us sober addicts is when we finally stop using alocohol or chemicals to self medicate we tend to exchage our addiction for co-addiction.

I did not know this could happen. I discovered my tendency toward co-addiction one evening. I went to the alonon meeting instead of the AA meeting I was there to attend. The alonon folks had SNACKS!!!! I was hungry. I idenified with these people so much I ended up taking notes.

Thanks for the reminder may be a good place to go back and visit.

I loved this and will pass it on.
I loved this and will try to apply it to my life. Any advice on the steps to get started?

I've lived with the instinct to just jump in and help or jump in and control I think it will be a very difficult habit to break.

No, I can't go to Alanon meetings right now but I will google them and see what I can find.

Thank you again.

It's all about letting go of the things I've no control over, doing something about the things I do, and striving to have the wisdom to tell the difference between the two.

Many of you might recognise that as the essence of a popular "12 step" suggestion.

I began by listening to my gut. If something is bothering me, there is something wrong with me. This is just another way I've gone from blaming anything and everything for my pain, to becoming responsible for my feelings and actions.

I know the only person I can change, is myself.

If I can identify in my gut something that is bothering me, I can then try and figure out whether it's something I can change or something that's beyond my influence.

If it's something I can influence, then I set to work to do something positive to change it. If I'm on the money with this choice, I am no longer bothered about it.

If on the other hand if it is deemed to be beyond my control, then I have to let it go. I have to let it go all the way down into my core until my gut knows it's released. I wasn't good at hearing those messages in the beginning.

Relinquishing control meant that I had to admit to not being all powerful. Until I began to practise letting go deliberately, I had no idea my faith was so thin. I don't mean a specific faith when I say that, but a more general faith in anything. I was alone and not connected to relationships, community or anything else in intimate ways.

I began experimenting with letting go of trivial things that bothered me. A kid misplacing a knife in the knife block, or something as silly. I made sure that I began with something small enough that I could easily do it. I knew I would have to experience success in this or I would not go back to it often enough to learn it well. Finding something small enough, was the most difficult aspect of learning to let go. I could not believe how much I was hanging on to, nor could I believe how tenaciously I clung to even the silliest resentment.

It was a kick in the teeth to know that baby steps were all I could do, at best. I beat myself up about this quite a bit which didn't help the process.

Once I began to have faith in the process of letting go, I began to meditate (http://www.mro.org/zmm/meditation/) in a very simple practise. I sit quietly in a balanced and proved manner and begin the process of letting go again and again as thoughts come in to break up my simple counting of breaths. This practise takes time to work it's wonders but when I am consist ant and regular in my practise it's quite remarkable how free from the constraints of things beyond my control I become. It seems insane to be otherwise.

I'm emphasising the "detaching" part of the initial phrase of "detach with love" but the "love" part comes naturally for me once I'm letting go. Once I wasn't carrying a load of resentment and anger I became much more empathetic and compassionate. I no longer looked at a jerk in my face as necessarily someone in need of a good beating. They looked instead to be wounded by the paths they had traveled.
Hope this helps.
Ian

Ian, thanks for a really thought-provoking article. This is something I'm really trying to work out for myself right now.

I'm new to these forums, a non-ADD partner of an ADD man.

Here's a question - I *get* the detaching thing (doesn't mean I don't struggle to do it!) but I'm wondering, what are some physical, practical measures folks have taken to detach. Like, one situation I'm thinking of is the checkbook, the finances...shared things in a shared household. For example, it might be much easier for me to be detached from overdraft fees in the checking account if my partner and I have separate checking accounts. I come from a cultural expectation that when you get married, your merge everything, and the thought of doing that with my man really frightens me, because there are possible outcomes that would make this whole detachment thing that much harder. So I try to imagine a different paradigm...one where there is much less merging. Is this making sense? Anyone have any practical suggestions?

For example, it might be much easier for me to be detached from overdraft fees in the checking account if my partner and I have separate checking accounts. ?

I am gathering your partner has a hard time with money management!!! Have you two sat down and talked about how his over draft fees is a problem for you, along with "ways" to prevent this over draft thing from happening??? Is your partner some one who will listen and cooperate???? If not then I would definatly get seperate checking accounts!!!

I go bonkers if I "bounce" a check!!!!! I hate paying out unnecessary expenses, especially sinse you get nothing in return!!!!! I have had to keep seperate accounts for this very reason. I have rarly been fortunate enough to meet and live with a man who could manage money and a checking account. If they have checks they seem to think that means they have money!!! Sooo they can pay thier own stupid over draft fees. I will try to handle the situation nicely, but if the "problem" continues (which it usually does) I seperate the finances, and keep a seperate savings and checking account. I personally prefer NOT to have my name on there account because if it is that still menas I am responsible for fees and THAT drives me more bonkers!!!!!


I come from a cultural expectation that when you get married, your merge everything,?

Merge every thing culture expectation Hmmmm. Would this be the same as share a life together????

I am highly allergic to grass, I can not mow the grass and we live on almost an acher of land. This huge "task" has become Gary's part of the house hold chores. Should he shuck the responsibility then he can deal with complaints of neighbors or fees imposed by the city. I do my part and expect him to do the same. When he shucks his part then I do what I can to allow him to face the consequences ALONE!!!! Gary on the other hand is "allergic" to dishes and washing machines. These are my part of our house hold duties.

We both live here and it is both our responsibility to keep the place livible however we have found it to be more effecient and productive if he does certain things I do other things, ,and a couple of the clean up task we do together. Some times he will do dishes for me (but it is a rarity) I will pick up trash or sticks in the yard before he mows (this too is a rarity)

Money Gary prefers to handle the money, which is okay by me as long as he handles it productively. It will be okay with me as long as I maintain an equal opnion when it comes to major purchases, and monthly expenses. Gary used to handle both the money and the "books" he did the filing. However his filing was basically piling. When ever we need to find a reciet or contract it was a two day ordeal. THIS drove me NUTS, what could possible be so hard about filing things in some sort of logical order. I want to be able to access any reciet, document in UNDER a MONTH.

Gary was unable to keep paper work organized and easily accessable. If we needed to find a document that was HIS problem. I would help if I had the time (I would not sacrafice my responsibilities, or personal computer/hobby either) I helped until I lost interest (avarage attention span of five minutes) We are self employeed good record keeping can become important. He would try to "blame me" or manipulate me into feeling guilty for not wanting to help. I pegged him immediatly. He want to keep all the business records in a pile because he always has them that way (opposed to keeping them in a file by date or catagory) fine he can dig through the piles like he did before I came!!!! I refused to feel guily because a grown man choose to file a certain way and now has to deal with his personal choice!!!!

I kept my presonal records seperate shortly after we began working together. After about a year Gary asked if I could keep the records accociated with our business. Sinse I have as much to benefit from good business record keeping I agreed to keep the business records in exchage for relief from other duties associated with our business. Gary still keeps records that pretain to him only. Like his truck insurance, drivers license renewal ect....

Sharing a life does not mean you both have to share each and every task. As long as you are both equally responsible then who does what should be what ever works for the two of you!!!!

The key NEGIOATE, each do what you as people are best suited to do. Culture expectations may not accurately reflect your individual strengths and weakness.If you are better with money then handle the money. If your partner has a problem with you handling all the finances then divide the bills fairly. He become responsible for his assigned bills and you become responsible for yours. What is wrong with that????!!!!

Sharing a life to me means sharing responsibility, how this is done should depend on the couples abilities and preferences!!!

and the thought of doing that with my man really frightens me, because there are possible outcomes that would make this whole detachment thing that much harder.?

Okay why does it frighten you??? The hardest part of the "detachment" thing would be to aviod rescueing some one who is irresponsible??? If you work together and are able to be honest and open with your selves and eachother arrange things so they work for you then rescueing should be kept to a minum!!!!!

Rescueing becomes a problem when one partner is not honest with them selves/ the other person/ doesn't want to carry an equal part in the work portion/ suffer consequences of personal choices. Some folks may not know how to do these things but if they are truly interested in making a life with you then they will be willing to make an attempt at learning!!!


So I try to imagine a different paradigm...one where there is much less merging. Is this making sense? Anyone have any practical suggestions?


A partnership of any variety requires both parties to share the responsibility. Sharing may entail division of some details and task. Remember you are a partner not a parent. Most healthy couple have things they do they do seperately, these things include chores hobbys and even activities. They also have parts of their life they share with eachother. Healthy partnerships mean healthy individual boundaries and mutual respect of such boundaries. Your boundaries are as individual as you are.

Maybe looking at what each of you expects from this relationship and what each person is willing to "bring to the table" may help you two find possible causes of conflict. Remember to keep things specific non-blaming and free of drama!!!!

Good luck!!!!!

As with most things, it's not in the "getting it" so much as in the practise. All go and no show! :D

I did not tackle the big things first. I tackled the smallest things I could imagine, to acquaint myself with the "practise".

I would identify anything I could grasp. I started by trying to identify some small thing that was eating at me, like a particular person in a meeting that just bugged me to look at them. Any time I was being selfish, irritable or discontent, I had an opportunity to let go. I was all of those things often enough to completely obliterate any gratitude for any of the good things in life.

Lately it's been focused on the flylady.net site and her attitude to taking responsibility and avoiding blame. I think she's got the train on the tracks that woman!

I've taken over the groceries, dishes, laundry and you know, I'm a whole lot happier, and I get a cleaner house and look Mum! No missing socks! :D

I can't say for you where your beginning would be. I don't know that anyone can pick the points you have available to jump onto the gratitude bus.

I do know that PU became willing to do "anything" to regain some sanity in her life. She stopped blaming me. She began to take responsibility for what was within her power and began to relinquish control of those things she was powerless in.

Cheque books and finances must be very difficult. If he insists on maintaining control over these things maybe you should get a job. If you are a woman with no clout financially you are enslaved and powerless over your life. I suggest all women should consider Independence in this respect.

It may be possible to talk your way into making sense to him about how much more effective it would be if you could manage the funds. Allowing him flexibility while maintaining your sensible management might work if you can sell it to him.

If worst comes to worst you may have to be willing to let it all go down the toilet in hopes of him seeing the light. That sounds extreme but that's what PU did. She had the money but she certainly did not continue to prop up the marriage and became quite willing to allow it to fall completely apart even though that was the last thing she wanted. She had let go of any expectation of successful resolution to the troubles entirely. I believe this is what finally got through to me. I could not see it until she no longer actually "needed" to be together. She wanted to be together but she no longer needed it.

It really helps to meet with others in the same shoes as you. A support group is a great help. It's where I found my "elders" who had walked the road before me and were willing to share their stories for me to see myself in reflection.

I think you've answered your own question to some degree in being "less merged". I'd sure like to hear the updates.
Cheers!

Ian, thanks for a really thought-provoking article. This is something I'm really trying to work out for myself right now.

I'm new to these forums, a non-ADD partner of an ADD man.

Here's a question - I *get* the detaching thing (doesn't mean I don't struggle to do it!) but I'm wondering, what are some physical, practical measures folks have taken to detach. Like, one situation I'm thinking of is the checkbook, the finances...shared things in a shared household. For example, it might be much easier for me to be detached from overdraft fees in the checking account if my partner and I have separate checking accounts. I come from a cultural expectation that when you get married, your merge everything, and the thought of doing that with my man really frightens me, because there are possible outcomes that would make this whole detachment thing that much harder. So I try to imagine a different paradigm...one where there is much less merging. Is this making sense? Anyone have any practical suggestions?

If worst comes to worst you may have to be willing to let it all go down the toilet in hopes of him seeing the light. That sounds extreme but that's what PU did. She had the money but she certainly did not continue to prop up the marriage and became quite willing to allow it to fall completely apart even though that was the last thing she wanted. She had let go of any expectation of successful resolution to the troubles entirely. I believe this is what finally got through to me. I could not see it until she no longer actually "needed" to be together. She wanted to be together but she no longer needed it.
Wow. That's exactly where I am right now. I want to be with him, but I've let go (or TRYING to let go) of expecting a successful resolution. We've pushed the "pause" button on the movie that is our Relationship. It's so sad. But it's the clearest action I've taken in a long time. I'm financially independent, in fact, have been the breadwinner for us, so it hasn't been an issue of control for him, more like me trying to figure out how to not get my credit involved with his money issues. Not only to not "bail him out" but to keep my credit record clean. Let his consequences be his own.

And, yes, getting it and the practice are sooooooo vastly different. Theoretical and applied science. :)

There have been some ways in which we have naturally fallen into our distinct strengths, which is what I think I hear you saying, Tammy, about you and Gary. For instance, he is much better at playing with the kids (his daughter and mine) while I am better at the schedules (eating, bedtime, etc). Together, we create a nice balance...he can take the rambunxious behavior, be totally playful and rowdy with them but *never* keeps them on a schedule. I'm good with that stuff, but not as playful. So in that regard, we have a value for each other's skills, and have "departmentalized."

But as you say
The hardest part of the "detachment" thing would be to aviod rescueing some one who is irresponsible???
and I have been pulled to do that in many situations. It's that inability to "detach" within the situation that has led me to detach from the relationship.

Luckily, we've always been really good at talking to each other, so I feel really comfortable being part of his life in a compassionate listening kind of way, but I've made a boundary around any romantic interactions. I have to work really hard to be clear with MYSELF about those boundaries.

So we'll see. All these experiences are teaching me, and hopefully making me a better human. ;)

I love the sounds of this! Think about it. Dream about how you want it. Cut all the grey matter you can on your boundaries and goals. You sound like you are coming clean. Talking the talk is always much easier than walking the walk.

You do understand that "trying to let go" is somewhat like being a little pregnant don't you? :D
Cheers!

Ian, thanks for a really thought-provoking article. This is something I'm really trying to work out for myself right now.

I'm new to these forums, a non-ADD partner of an ADD man.

Here's a question - I *get* the detaching thing (doesn't mean I don't struggle to do it!) but I'm wondering, what are some physical, practical measures folks have taken to detach. Like, one situation I'm thinking of is the checkbook, the finances...shared things in a shared household. For example, it might be much easier for me to be detached from overdraft fees in the checking account if my partner and I have separate checking accounts. I come from a cultural expectation that when you get married, your merge everything, and the thought of doing that with my man really frightens me, because there are possible outcomes that would make this whole detachment thing that much harder. So I try to imagine a different paradigm...one where there is much less merging. Is this making sense? Anyone have any practical suggestions?
I have to ditto FarmGirls question. I went to Al-Anon at the suggestion of some friends and family after my first marrige ended and learned detachment, etc. As a single father at the time, it helped me tremendously dealing with my daughter. But how do you deal with a partner or other family member who's irresponsible behavior is impacting your life negatively?

What if (in the case of a partner) you know in your heart that you never really loved this person, you're only with them because after a lifetime of building a negative self-image in a society that constantly reinforces the message that we "should" be loved to be of any value, you hooked up with the first person that seemed willing for fear of being alone?

What if (in the case of a partner) you know in your heart that you never really loved this person, you're only with them because after a lifetime of building a negative self-image in a society that constantly reinforces the message that we "should" be loved to be of any value, you hooked up with the first person that seemed willing for fear of being alone?


Okay first how long have you been with this "partner" and are you living together/married, have mutual children??????

What would be your defintation of love??? Is it a commitment, decision, or an emotion??? What makes you think you never loved partner, or don't love partner now????? Is it the distructive behavior you commented on???? What have you done about negative behaviors to protect your self??? Have you tried counseling????


But how do you deal with a partner or other family member who's irresponsible behavior is impacting your life negatively?


In a word boundaries!!!!!

The longer version: I started by defining the behavior specifically how it is affecting me negatively???? I also reviewed my personal boundaries, and found behavior denifinatly crossed the line of acceptable behavior. See there are certain behaviors I find acceptable (most personality quirks) and behavior I do not tolerate in my life (lying, stealing). Then I figured out what I was going to do to protect my personal boundary( I come up with some real unusual solutions) . In my case increase distance between me and dishonest person (after I put them in my shoes for a short time)!!!


If personal boundaries are not some thing you are familuar with then there would be the place I would start. I asked about counseling as it seems to me by the statement you made about previous marriage the suggestion of Ala-non, assistence with daughter followed by the negative behavior of current partner. It sounds as if you are in some sort of "holding pattern" in that you keep ending up with relationships that are unhealthy. Some times groups like Alon-non can help however if this is a life long pattern individual counseling may be necessary, it was in my case!!!!!! You can get rid of present partner but unless you change some thing with in YOU; unfortunitly you have a high probability of ending up in this same place with some one else.

Life is kind of like school in that when certain "lessons" are presented we either learn how we our selves contributed to our present "situation" or the lesson will be repaeted over and over and over until we either "get it" or die, which ever comes first!!!!!

I would start with self I usually do as I can not control another persons attitudes or behavior only my own, which is not only where the problem lies but where the answer emerges.

Hope this helped with out "hurting" too much!!!!

wow you guys!
thank you so much, i am so glad there are people on this forum with this kind of wisdom to offer...

i think it is one of the major stages in life, when you learn to look in yourself instead of always looking outside.

i am still learning... but it most certainly rings true!

wow you guys!
thank you so much, i am so glad there are people on this forum with this kind of wisdom to offer... Yes, and there's even Canadian content. :D

Can/con is at the heart of everything isn't it? heheh

whoop!

CANADA ROCKS.

word.
:cool:

Detachment is scary because it can mean that we might lose the relationship if we stop taking care of things the other person should be responsible for.

Reading about co-dependency has made me realize that I was trying to control people in my life because I thought I had to in order to 'earn' or 'keep' or even 'be worthy' of the relationship. I had to learn to detach from outcomes, and to focus on my self, and my responsibility to myself and my own personal growth. And I had to take the risk that once I stopped managing things for someone else, they might not need me anymore and not want me enough to stay with me.

By control, I not only had to stop doing things for that person, but I had to stop trying to figure out what I needed to do, how I needed to behave, in order to get whatever outcome I wanted. I wouldn't bring up things that needed discussing because I didn't want an arguement. I wouldn't do things I wanted to do because the other person might think I was being selfish. I would weigh my words, and agonize about actions because I desperately needed to know, and have control over, the outcome, or the response from the other person.

In my case, it came from having a crazy mother who was unpredictable in her behavior and responses to me. So I was always trying to figure out her mood, and what I needed to do to avoid her wrath. It was a survival strategy that became a bad habit; not knowing better, I thought that one needed to do this in all relationships. It was what I had to do to take care of myself. Eventually I didn't know who my 'self' was, what my feelings really were, or what my legitimate needs were.

Detachment is so liberating! Detaching with love allows me to focus on the love I feel, not on trying to figure out what the other person feels.

Well said Joyous. Every time I read or hear another persons reiteration, I have the merit of these principles burned into my soul.
Thanks. Ian

Ian,

It has been a long time but I recall you assisting me with a few issues of my own with great insight and even articles that helped.

Now, I say... WOW!

I was sincerely about to open a thread in this forum about what I may be doing wrong in my relationship with my boyfriend. He is someone I hold so dear to me and I want to help have a great life with. When I am away from him for a day or two I almost feel hopeless and lost after being around him for days at a time. I know it is good to be alone and I do enjoy my time, but can't seem to shake the feeling of how much I love being around him.

It is just a feeling and I do think this post was an answer for many of my questions. He is being loving to himself and me by detaching and walking away for more than a day or two at a time after a week passes or so of us being together day in and day out. I see that more now and I am now finding it easy to comprehend and accept with your article.

I have to say, THANK YOU! :) This made more of a difference than you think.

I just hope I can keep it always in mind to improve my relationship with my boyfriend and best friend always.

Sincerely, Charisma.

Detachment is scary because it can mean that we might lose the relationship if we stop taking care of things the other person should be responsible for.

Reading about co-dependency has made me realize that I was trying to control people in my life because I thought I had to in order to 'earn' or 'keep' or even 'be worthy' of the relationship. I had to learn to detach from outcomes, and to focus on my self, and my responsibility to myself and my own personal growth. And I had to take the risk that once I stopped managing things for someone else, they might not need me anymore and not want me enough to stay with me.

By control, I not only had to stop doing things for that person, but I had to stop trying to figure out what I needed to do, how I needed to behave, in order to get whatever outcome I wanted. I wouldn't bring up things that needed discussing because I didn't want an arguement. I wouldn't do things I wanted to do because the other person might think I was being selfish. I would weigh my words, and agonize about actions because I desperately needed to know, and have control over, the outcome, or the response from the other person.

In my case, it came from having a crazy mother who was unpredictable in her behavior and responses to me. So I was always trying to figure out her mood, and what I needed to do to avoid her wrath. It was a survival strategy that became a bad habit; not knowing better, I thought that one needed to do this in all relationships. It was what I had to do to take care of myself. Eventually I didn't know who my 'self' was, what my feelings really were, or what my legitimate needs were.

Detachment is so liberating! Detaching with love allows me to focus on the love I feel, not on trying to figure out what the other person feels.
The wierdest, yet most refreshing, part about all that you stated here is that this is something I feel now with my parnter in life (as I call him). It is good to know I can try and know ... try to really feel that things wont fall apart and I wont loose him. Especially if he truly wants me. Which he has stated many times. :)

Thank-you for saying such kind things, but please remember that they are not my words of wisdom. I'm simply passing on to you what was handed to me freely. It saved me from certain death at the hands of all kinds of abuse. The struggle isn't over, but my tool kit is much more familiar to me and much more powerful than it was prior to learning some of this stuff.

The crunch I continue to feel is that for everything my heart seems to think it needs, none of it is available completely until I no longer need it. If I'm truly and freely standing on my own, I can completely have those things closest to my heart. It's nuts, but I strive to accept it.
Practise, practise, practise

Practise, practise, practise
and... Patience, patience, patience... On my part anyway. I can completely get that last line about standing alone. I really hope to learn much from this today and to keep up the "practise". :)

Right on the money. Both the patience and that it's a personal practise of my own helps in removing blame, from running rampant. My 12 year old is just like me in scary ways.

I'm practising now in hopes of having more to offer her later, if you catch the drift. I think I can to a certain extent, bank the wisom and use it later.

I have to attend to it all the time. If it doesn't occur in my mind several times a day as a reminder, I'm lost.
Cheers! ian

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page) is taking over my life. :D I am so grateful for the resources of the Internet.

I'm having a discussion elsewhere about detachment and ended up finding some more solid information. I was surprised that the term was misleading to some. It's been mistaken for something more closely related to disengaging, which is not the same thing at all.

The link to emotional detaching at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_detachment) was very clear about the terms. I use it almost exclusively in relation to the second sense.

In the second sense, it is a type of mental assertiveness that allows people to maintain their boundaries and psychic integrity when faced with the emotional demands of another person or group of persons.

Second sense: mental assertiveness

Emotional detachment in the second sense above is a positive and deliberate mental attitude which avoids engaging the emotions of others. It is often applied to relatives and associates of people who are in some way emotionally overly demanding. A simple example might be a person who trains themselves to ignore the "pleading" food requests of a dieting spouse. A more widespread example could be the indifference parents develop towards their children's begging.

A more extreme form of this has been called "tough love," meaning letting someone go through a painful life experience without interference for the sake of its greater educational value. This can be an excruciating experience for loved ones, who must avoid the urge to step in and rescue the person from that pain (but thereby interfere with the loved one having a much-needed growing experience).

This detachment does not mean avoiding the feeling of empathy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy); it is actually more of an awareness of empathetic feelings that allows the person space needed to rationally choose whether or not to engage or be overwhelmed by such feelings.


Referred at this Wikipedia entry is a link for developing detachment (http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm) that I found really solid too. It's titled Tools for handling control issues. (http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm)

Content:



What is detachment? (http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm#What)
What are the negative effects not detaching? (http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm#negative)
How is detachment a control issue? (http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm#control)
What irrational thinking leads to an inability to detach? (http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm#thinking)
How to develop detachment (http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm#develop)
Steps in developing detachment (http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm#Steps)

One thing led to another... (Hey look! String!) and I came across this related entry.


Emotional contagion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_contagion) From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page), the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_contagion#column-one), search (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_contagion#searchInput)
<!-- start content --> Emotional contagion is the tendency to express and feel emotions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion) that are similar to and influenced by those of others. Emotional contagion may be involved in crowd behaviors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mob_psychology), like collective fear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear), rage, or moral panic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic), but also emotional interactions in smaller groups such as negotiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negotiation), teaching (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teaching) and persuasion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persuasion) contexts. It is also the phenomenon when a person (especially a child) appears distressed because another person is distressed, or happy because they are happy.

To date, most clinical research has focused on the effects on non-verbal (and often non-emotional) displays, and relatively less has been studied about the impact of contagion effects on emotional feelings. Emotional contagion and empathy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy) may be related, but the nature of such a connection has not to date been explored either.

The concept of insulating oneself from emotional contagion is called emotional detachment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_detachment).


I still feel very strongly that this is an important element in my personal development. It spans the universe in it's impact on how I relate to every important element in my life. I could never have too much from this skill set.

So much of this gets to the heart of how we might be manipulated or how we may do the manipulation consciously or not. If I could stand to enquire more deeply, this would feed many avenues of interest for me.
Cheers! Ian.

I have truely been inspired by your post and I know very closely how hard it can be to detach yourself...I am sure like many here we strive everyday to keep ourselves from self distruction. Thank you so much for this little bit of inspiration.:D

You are very welcome. I'm just passing it forward.

I was reflecting today on the ramifications of this attitude and what kind of impact it might have on larger social conflicts. Every form or refuge has it's price though. Strength to you.
Peace.

I am becoming disillusioned with love. I thought I was in love, but screwed it up by cheating. I was off my meds. I just can't seem to feel love anymore. This is concerning me. When I would fall in love... I was off my meds. Now that I am on them... I just don't feel love. This puts me in a blue funk. I guess I just haven't met the right person? I do believe in love, I just wish I could keep the next person... without thinking selfishly.

It would be interesting to hear what your significant other might have to say about the original article. You too for that matter. :)

I used to be confused about the meaning romantic love. Love for me now is a verb. It's something I do. It's an action that I take in response to how I feel. In that way I'll never be disillusioned about it. It's a powerful tool for healing of all sorts, but it's a slippery devil if I let myself believe it's something I have and keep. It always has a habit of back firing on me if I hang onto it! :D

I feel love every time I extend myself in empathy to others. The universe is rife with the stuff, but I didn't learn this early in life and nearly died from lacking it more than once via a long string of self loathing abuses.

Cultivating a love with another is like tending any living thing to grow and thrive. I don't buy the culturally popular notion of romantic love. I see it as a distraction from the core things that provide me with meaning in my life and that keeps me safer from the blue funks. Those actions of compassion, empathy, and generosity of spirit, all of which I came into this world woefully deficient in all beat the daylights out of whatever I've experienced as romantic love.

Do you find that detaching with love might be something that would help you forgive yourself for your mistakes?
Ian

Do you find that detaching with love might be something that would help you forgive yourself for your mistakes?
Ian

That's an interesting concept. Only time will tell. I will have to learn for my past romantic experiences. I think I am at the best place in my life. All my other SOs have been there when I was off my meds and I think I scared them away. Of course, the one I fell for... I had to be stupid withand cheat. She is happy from her last email (sent around February) and I am happy for her. I just miss a lot from our conversations.

Loving detachment. Is that what they call it?

I am not married or in a close relationship (haven't been for years), so I have to seek out people to help. I try to keep it narrowed down to volunteering at a nonprofit music club -- but more often than I would like to admit, I pick random and non random people to "help". I do this with my money and my time.

Last January, I helped out an underprivileged visual artist to get his work in front of more people... I drove him around, I bought art supplies for him, lunch and dinner, photographed his work, made calls, I am getting ill thinking about it.

I was between freelance assignments and should have been prospecting; but instead...

Most recently a woman I dated 12 years ago came into town, we went out a few times, her mother evicted her (think sherifs in the night).

She was homeless with no money and lots of problems, Perfect!
I was about to leave the house with a crate of clothes, toiletries, books, tea. A light went off in my head; Could this be over-helping? I called a friend who asked me "what's in it for me?"

I didn't want her as girl friend, a wife, I didn't have a good answer and terminated the rescue mission.

It was completely contrary to everything I know and thought I was taught.

She probably went through hell, but at least it wasn't my hell.

Loving detachment. Now I have a name for it.

In Buddhist philosophy, I think they mention being a "detached observer".

Sounds like CoA (Codependency Anonymous) talk. :)

I like this sub-link of your link, Ian.


The "Need To Fix"
http://www.coping.org/control/fixing.htm

I think people can [pathologically] need to help others for a variety of reasons.

Some needs are control issues. (But when we overhelp, we take away the OTHER persons's "power" over their own lives and essentially infantalize them.)

Some needs to help fix others may arise b/c we weren't helped ourselves, earlier in life, when WE needed it. (Search for mastery & a re-do.)

The main issue, I am coming to realize is this: "Are we meeting their need, or our are we perhaps own hidden need here? Whose emotional needs are being met here?"

e.g. if i am doing/saying/helping b/c of my own "need", then something's gotta change. (The focus is off the Main Person.)

Loving detachment. Is that what they call it?

I am not married or in a close relationship (haven't been for years), so I have to seek out people to help. I try to keep it narrowed down to volunteering at a nonprofit music club -- but more often than I would like to admit, I pick random and non random people to "help". I do this with my money and my time.

Last January, I helped out an underprivileged visual artist to get his work in front of more people... I drove him around, I bought art supplies for him, lunch and dinner, photographed his work, made calls, I am getting ill thinking about it.

I was between freelance assignments and should have been prospecting; but instead...

Most recently a woman I dated 12 years ago came into town, we went out a few times, her mother evicted her (think sherifs in the night).

She was homeless with no money and lots of problems, Perfect!
I was about to leave the house with a crate of clothes, toiletries, books, tea. A light went off in my head; Could this be over-helping? I called a friend who asked me "what's in it for me?"

I didn't want her as girl friend, a wife, I didn't have a good answer and terminated the rescue mission.

It was completely contrary to everything I know and thought I was taught.

She probably went through hell, but at least it wasn't my hell.

Loving detachment. Now I have a name for it.Sounds like you've got the detaching thing down pat. I'm more focused on the love part. :)

I like this sub-link of your link, Ian.


The "Need To Fix"
http://www.coping.org/control/fixing.htm

I think people can [pathologically] need to help others for a variety of reasons.

Some needs are control issues. (But when we overhelp, we take away the OTHER persons's "power" over their own lives and essentially infantalize them.)

Some needs to help fix others may arise b/c we weren't helped ourselves, earlier in life, when WE needed it. (Search for mastery & a re-do.)

The main issue, I am coming to realize is this: "Are we meeting their need, or our are we perhaps own hidden need here? Whose emotional needs are being met here?"

e.g. if i am doing/saying/helping b/c of my own "need", then something's gotta change. (The focus is off the Main Person.)It's the perfect platform for my practise with empathy. I think you've hit the nail on the head so to speak. I thought, maybe erroneously that your point was self evident. I'm often guilty of taking shortcuts in my writing and appreciate you pointing this out clearly.

I agree that if the focus remains on the detached persons needs the resulting positive energy is mostly lost to the others in need. At least that's been my experience. My skills in empathy have not been at the top of the class, but these ideas of detaching with love has freed me and opened up channels to a love action of substance.

I think your point about "self service" in helping is much more often the case than a detached love. Learning the difference was what made this learning so potent for me. The older I get the more powerful a force it's becoming.
Thanks for the link.
Ian running, running, running.

that was a great articleMy wife taught me a lot about this stuff by her fine example.

When I was much more toxic to relationships than I am now, she learnt how to get free of my destructive ways without losing sight of her love for me or her ability to care for herself.

I was very fortunate to have her example to follow. This concept has been very effective in helping to define what is mine and what is not mine during emotionally challenging times.
Ian.


http://www.anonymityone.com/faq46.htm
Detaching With Love

How Detaching Can Be Loving For All

By Wayland Myers, Ph.D
"Detachment is a means whereby we allow others the opportunity to learn how to care for themselves better." This statement helped me make a quantum leap in my understanding of how detaching from others could be loving. Last month, I shared that I heard this from a family program counselor. Hearing her left me amazed and disoriented. For the first time, I began realizing that abstaining from my attempts to protect or manage others could be a gift to them.

That was nine year ago. Today I have a fuller definition of loving detachment. Currently, I consider myself lovingly detached when I am willing and able to compassionately allow others to be different from me, to be self-directed, and to be responsible for taking care of themselves. Using this definition, I have come to realize that detachment is loving for everyone involved. In this article I will share my beliefs about four ways that detachment is loving for those I care about, and four ways that it is loving for me.

How detachment is loving others

1. Those I care for might learn to look within, and trust themselves for self-direction, including when and how to ask for help.

If I refrain from trying to manage their problematic situation, the people, I care about may learn something about thinking for themselves, problem solving, and when and how to ask for help. They might learn to better listen to their feelings and intuitions, to heed those little voices we all wish we listened-to more. They might learn to better recognize when they want help and how to request it in ways that leave them feeling good rather than embarrassed or ashamed. In short, letting them manage their own affairs gives them the opportunity to draw on their own inner resources, instead of mine, and from this direct experience of their abilities, no matter how groping or uncertain, they can build competence and may thereby increase their confidence. I believe this is the No. I and most natural avenue leading to increased self-esteem.

2. They might learn more about cause and effect.

My not intervening allows others to have an uninterrupted experience of the cause and effect relationship between their actions and the natural consequences of those actions. In this way, they have a direct encounter with their personal power to contribute to their own pleasure or pain. Allowing people to have appropriate sized, real problems, and real responsibility for working out their solutions, seem to greatly facilitate this learning.

3. They might experience the motivation to continue on or change.

Pleasurable and painful experiences often provide us the motivation to repeat what brought satisfaction and change what didn't. We all use this kind of emotional energy to move us forward in life. These motivating energies arise naturally from within and feel much better to respond to than the attempts by others to motivate us through guilt, fear and other forms of coercion.

4. Self discovery and enjoyment might occur. If I grant others the freedom to think, feel, value, perceive, etc. as they wish, and they relax because they feel respected and safe, they might discover many new things about themselves. They might discover what they really like, feel or think. They might have moments of creative insight that inspire, excite and encourage them. They might invent new, more satisfying dreams for their lives than ever would have appeared under the pressure of my controlling presence.

Whenever I find myself struggling with the impulse to step in and begin trying to manage another life, or solve his or her problems, I find it helpful to review the four points just presented. They strongly motivate me to remain lovingly detached.

Now, how about the ways loving detachment benefits me?

How detachment is loving for me

1. I am relieved of the strain of attempting the impossible.

By carefully reviewing my experiences of trying to control other people's physical behavior, sobriety, health, learning, emotions and opinions, I have come to one conclusion. The only thing I might be able to control is a person's physical behavior that requires that I possess enough physical strength and am willing to use it. If I accept my powerlessness to control the other things, the inner lives and wills of others, then I relieve myself of the stress and strain of attempting the impossible. This is a primary way for me to create more serenity in my life. In fact, if I practice this process deeply enough, I sometimes reach the point where I form no opinion about what another should do. This is a truly liberated and refreshing moment for us both.

2. What other people)think of me can become none of my business.

If I am powerless to control the thoughts, perceptions, values or emotions of another, then I can liberate myself by accepting that their opinions of me are none of my business. Accepting this as fact, I not only free myself, but the other person as well, because I cease my attempts to control their inner workings.

3. My attention and energy are freed to focus on improving my own life.

I have plenty of problem areas in my own life. Obsessing about another life can help me avoid the pain within mine. But the time and energy I spend obsessing about another life I don't spend on mine, and if I do this enough, my life stays at its current level of unmanageability or gets worse. Loving detachment gives me the opportunity to invest my energies in my life.

4. I can express my love or caring in ways that bring me joy and satisfaction.

When someone I care for is struggling with a problem, or feeling some kind of pain, I usually want to be supportive or helpful. But, I want to offer the kind of help that would bring me joy to offer and them joy to receive. One of the ways that I have developed a picture of what this help could look like is to recall the times when caring friends or others have offered me assistance in ways that I enjoyed. What did they do? While showing no sign that they felt responsible for solving my problems, they offered me four things:

* Their compassionate, empathic understanding of how I perceived and fell about my situation.

* Their experiences and learning from similar situations for my consideration.

* Their genuine optimism about my abilities to work through my struggles.

* Their willingness to help, on my terms, in ways that were congruent with their needs. To be offered understanding, companionship, encouragement and assistance, but not interference, is the most satisfying help I have known. Offering this to others increases both the joys in my life and my self-esteem.

Looking at the eight ways that I see detachment as being loving, I conclude that the most basic reason for practicing it is to provide an opportunity for people's lives to be improved. The lives of those I love may be improved because I respect their powers of self-care enough to let them have a chance to reap the potential benefits of struggling, learning and succeeding on their own. My life is improved because I avoid unnecessary distress, retain energy I might have wasted, and offer caring and support in ways that bring me joy. In these ways loving detachment plays a powerful and rewarding role in helping me to both live and let live.

Dixiepeep: Insightful.

Respect and help others as you would wish to be respected and helped. If you need to detach, do so with compassion.

Thanks.

I see how detachment can work with other relatives, but I don't want to have to detach from my partner when it comes to money or taking care of things. He and I both need to be able to do everything for ourselves, not because we have to now but because there are no guarantees in life and so you just never know when you might have to be in a situation where you have to take care of 100% of things for yourself. If I can't trust him to handle money equally with me, then I feel I have no business marrying him. Financial communication early on in the relationship can prevent SO MANY problems. I think a lot of couples like to hope they'll never have to talk about money and it will just magically resolve itself.

So is this detachment theory saying that you can never experience true intimacy and let people in completely? It seems like life would suck if you always had to keep everyone at arms length and couldn't fully trust anyone. I hope that you don't have to detach from everyone in your life.

I see how detachment can work with other relatives, but I don't want to have to detach from my partner when it comes to money or taking care of things.


I'm not sure we're on the same page when it comes to the term "detachment." I don't think the article suggested disengaging, but instead, an emotional detachment that facilitates letting go of what I can't control while remaining empathetic and compassionate. There's a world of difference between the two.

Please quote the parts of the information you found to suggest the points of concern you raise. I don't see them.


He and I both need to be able to do everything for ourselves, not because we have to now but because there are no guarantees in life and so you just never know when you might have to be in a situation where you have to take care of 100% of things for yourself.


This would be ideal for me too, but it doesn't seem to work that way in my life. I have strengths that my partner doesn't and visa versa, so we rely on a team effort and accept the risks of the insecurities that imposes. I could be hit by a bus tomorrow, or mistaken entirely about my values so I'll take what I see as a cultured trusting human bond that is interdependent as sufficient security. It's all I'm capable of it seems.

It has never been particularly easy for me to engage in trusting relationships so it has been particularly rewarding for me to learn to engage with people this way. Detaching with love has helped me attend to my own role in facilitating these encounters and to withdraw farther from being so ego centric as I'm prone to being.


If I can't trust him to handle money equally with me, then I feel I have no business marrying him. Financial communication early on in the relationship can prevent SO MANY problems. I think a lot of couples like to hope they'll never have to talk about money and it will just magically resolve itself.


My wife was the same. We've been married twenty two years and she's always looked after the bulk of our money. It's been a good thing too, but everyone deals with this differently. I think if our genders had been reversed in our marriage, it would not have been as healthy for either of us if I had the bulk of the financial control. I expect there are far more women out there that know and appreciate how destructive it is to be powerless and without influence in this regard. Fortunately for me, even though I earn far less than my partner, she has always believed it important to account for me having some control over some segment of our income exclusively. Although I struggle to create income for myself relative to her income, this privilege has lead to a very strong commitment to our combined efforts financially and that's been one more way my partner has detached with love to good end.


So is this detachment theory saying that you can never experience true intimacy and let people in completely? It seems like life would suck if you always had to keep everyone at arms length and couldn't fully trust anyone. I hope that you don't have to detach from everyone in your life.


Again, please quote the parts of the article that suggest your concern. I didn't get the message you suggest here at all.

My relationships are far more intimate now having learnt some of these skills well than would have ever been possible without them. It's the whole point of the exercise for me. I do not want more distance from my loved ones, I want just the opposite. I want a great deal of intimacy. The more the better as far as I'm concerned.

By "let people in" I would not like to suggest that I leave myself so vulnerable as to endanger myself in some way, but at this point in life I have some experience with risk management hopefully and don't need to extend the risk factors too far beyond any dangerous imaginary line. I still can't predict the future though so nothing is risk free for me.

I don't detach from anyone in the way you are using the term. I'm the guy that goes through the check out counter and dedicates himself to cheering the clerk who is so obviously struggling to finish her shift. These principles are not harsh or disrespectful or somehow defensive or negative. Just the opposite. It's a means of detoxifying my relations with the world around me.

In all of this it's been paramount for me to understand and more importantly practice changing myself and not focusing that energy on others. I can't change anyone. I can be an example, I can speak to others when asked for help, but for the most part I have enough on my own plate that needs attention to never need to attend to another persons shortcomings. In order to do this I have to detach and allow others to be themselves and give myself permission to see more of what is and not so much of what I'd like it to be.

That reality check has been my ticket out of some very old dysfunctional loops that had been repeating through many generations in my family. Once aware of some of them I spent a great deal of energy blaming others for my difficulties in one way or another. Detaching with love allowed me to get out of that sick habit and take responsibility for my own role, and begin to change those things that I could change in myself and to let go of those things that were beyond my control. Lots of practice has brought me some of the wisdom required to tell the difference between the two. Detaching with love has been the key to some deeply intimate and satisfying relationships. Some of those relationships are now with people that did me great harm years ago and those are beacons for more joy ahead as I see it.

“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
Shel Silverstein

Peace.
Ian

I was referring to what others said about the article here more than the actual article.

I was referring to what others said about the article here more than the actual article.

Yes, I too had noticed that the thread had gone astray and become a conversation not about detachment, but seemingly to me, about something else entirely. Given that threads tend to stay on topic here when possible I thought I'd try and clear the way for getting back to the subject of the thread.

I did not mean to single you out, but I did want to ensure that people that might benefit from the original concepts being discussed, would not become mislead by something other than the direction that was set out in the original content that started this thread.

If there is interest in whatever it is that you and maybe some others seem to gravitate toward conceptually, maybe you could clarify it in another thread? I'd sure like it if you could grasp the concepts in the original post and discuss it here though if you would care to. I think this is a very important and successful coping strategy for so many of life's pitfalls.

It seems like it's a completely foreign idea to a lot of folks. I think it's a life saver for getting out of a life filled with fear, blame, resentment and anger.
Respectfully.

I prefer to try to not let myself get into situations where I have to detach in the first place. Why even let those people in in the first place?

Ah yes, enlightenment. I'm all for it. :)

This is the relationship area - the original topic is detaching with love.

I understand from reading several responses that there may be some confusion as to the meaning behind the words. By all means feel free to ask for clarification. I wish to thank Ian for his willingness to address this area.

However discussions on enlightenment are better addressed in our meditation and spirituality area (http://www.addforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=158) - this particular thread is dealing with personal boundaries and intimate relationship issues .

Detaching means letting go of all attempts to control others - it is giving spouse, life partner, son, daughter {people who are close to you} the freedom to reap the consequences {weather they be good or bad} of their actions.

This discussion is about maintaining a healthy self identity while sharing your life with others. The topic addresses the difference between caring for some one and emotional enmeshment.

If you wish to address other issues outside of the scope of personal relationships and healthy boundaries I must I insist you begin another thread.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.


P.S. I apologize for my tardiness.

Thanks Ian. Will be going to an al-anon meeting again soon. I come from very emeshed family, but one that self-educates and is always looking to improve, while my DH comes from a very detached family and now feels we are too different. He has started drinking a lot more lately - alone (my mother alerted me to the red flag there), and says that he has given his cell number to a woman who knows he married, because to talk to her is a release. He says he wants a divorce. I am having a hard time detaching. Loving is the easy part. I just hate that he is doing the opposite of what it says in the Bible - when he used to read it so often and went to Promise Keepers 2 times - He even has an "I love my wife" bumper sticker on the back of his car. I don't feel loved, but I won't lay down with welcome on my back either to let him wipe his feet (benefiting from my love while he is emotionally intimate with another woman). God doesn't want that either, so... I'm working on loving me through these dark times. Thanks again for you inspiration. I have encouraged 2 other emershed moms to consider al-anon to help them detach from their ADD sons - but they are rescuers - for now.

God Bless.