View Full Version : Fasting for three days can regenerate entire immune system, study finds


SB_UK
06-06-14, 07:17 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10878625/Fasting-for-three-days-can-regenerate-entire-immune-system-study-finds.html

Fasting Diary (from FB)

2014 - fasting schedule (to be edited)
------------------------------------------------------
[Fast 1] - 17th,18th,19th February [80 - 90 hours]
--- forgot to record fasting schedule ---
[Fast a] - 24th, 25th May
[Fast b] - 27th, 28th, 29th May ... no hunger felt.
[Fast c] - 31st, 1st, 2nd May ... no hunger felt.
[Fast d] - 4th, 5th, 6th May - no hunger felt
Very peculiar - no hunger felt at all - maybe a little less 'with it' but but but

SB_UK
06-06-14, 07:20 AM
This idea is really really important.

SB_UK
06-06-14, 07:27 AM
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1560491&postcount=34

Now - I've been split down:
[1] Social organism formation (shift in reward systems)
[2] Enforcedly aerobic [ketogenic metabolism preferred]
[3] OR (them and us) to AND (everything's connected) mind type.

So - all three hold.

[1] is most important to realise - emergence of an enforcedly social organism helps us to understand the other two.
[3] Now - of course, an enforcedly social organism 'd have to 'field' a wise (moral) mind - that mind forms with education - and so a predisposition towards the wise (mind) forming 'd be necessary.
This second point can be skipped over - but is interesting - it echoes Hartmann's points about 'ADDers as old souls nearing enlightenment' - so a predisposition to wisdom/enlightenment using structure of mind argument entices.

And finally [2].
Ketogenic metabolism requires blood glucose levels to be kept steady; and ketogenic metabolism appears healthier.

At this point - I'm probably going to gun for a low glycaemic index proper foods diet [vegetables vegetables vegetables], with periods of fasting/exercise of 3 days (see leptin sensitivity literature) in which 'housekeeping' can be performed.

Maybe 3 days fasting per week ?

That way we'll benefit from bouts of ketosis in housekeeping ... ... (see Mount Athos publication on acetone production during fasting)
-- though ideally, I'd like the same data to be recorded over an average month or so on Athos - to see whether they're in a constant state of ketosis - or simply a few days per month ... ...

- don't know -
constant vegan ketosis is pertty hard to hold down - low GI vegan with bouts of ketosis through 3 days fasting/exercise

-- much easier.

SB_UK
06-06-14, 07:38 AM
Fasting for as little as three days can regenerate the entire immune system, even in the elderly, scientists have found in a breakthrough described as "remarkable".

Surely the body's inappropriately overactive immune system will be switched off in a near starvation state.
It's just that the body will have other things on its mind - other things - other than wasting effort 'tilting at windmills'.


Close enough ??

SB_UK
06-06-14, 08:35 AM
ARTICLE

Prolonged Fasting Reduces IGF-1/PKA to Promote Hematopoietic-Stem-Cell-Based Regeneration and Reverse Immunosuppression

http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/abstract/S1934-5909%2814%2900151-9

SB_UK
06-06-14, 08:36 AM
--- note ---

This information is essential for pet owners as it relates to over-fed animals also.

Fuzzy12
06-06-14, 09:20 AM
Thanks for the link.

I used to fast regularly. For a while I fasted for one day every week (i.e. 36h) but now I just fast twice a year (each time 36h).

I don't really feel hungry or tired either but my cognitive capabilities really take a hit. I can't focus on anything and towards evening I get a bit irritable. :scratch:

The longest I've ever fasted was 5 days when I was 16 and at that time I really felt knocked out.

I'm assuming that you still drink water when fasting. Anything else?

(I usually just have water or herbal tea, maybe 1 cup of coffee :scratch:).

I'm planning to fast for a day beginning of next month but I'm not sure how advisable that is now that I'm taking stimulants. Maybe I should skip the meds on that day? :scratch:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10878625/Fasting-for-three-days-can-regenerate-entire-immune-system-study-finds.html

Fasting Diary (from FB)

2014 - fasting schedule (to be edited)
------------------------------------------------------
[Fast 1] - 17th,18th,19th February [80 - 90 hours]
--- forgot to record fasting schedule ---
[Fast a] - 24th, 25th May
[Fast b] - 27th, 28th, 29th May ... no hunger felt.
[Fast c] - 31st, 1st, 2nd May ... no hunger felt.
[Fast d] - 4th, 5th, 6th May - no hunger felt
Very peculiar - no hunger felt at all - maybe a little less 'with it' but but but

SB_UK
06-06-14, 10:21 AM
herbal tea, maybe 2 cup of coffee :-)
So very similar - I don't drink water but have 2 1/2 cups of herb tea with stevia as opposed to 1 cup each drink.

apple crunch as we speak ... ... strawberry/mango before ... ... lemon/ginger to follow.

meadd823
06-06-14, 11:43 AM
Shattering the Myth of Fasting for Women: A Review of Female-Specific Responses to Fasting in the Literature (http://www.paleoforwomen.com/shattering-the-myth-of-fasting-for-women-a-review-of-female-specific-responses-to-fasting-in-the-literature/)


This post has focused on sex-specific responses to fasting. Another important distinction to make is between different body weights. Overweight and obese patients appear to experience significant improvements with IF regimes, but normal weight patients do not show the same across-the-board benefits. For women this may be a particularly sensitive issue. Overweight women may experience metabolic benefits, whereas normal weight women do not. I suspect that that may roughly be the case, but who knows. Honestly, no one.

The solution, then, in moving forward, is to look at options, to be honest about priorities, and to listen to oneís body with awareness and love. Is fasting worth trying if a woman is overweight and trying to improve her metabolic markers, and so far hasnít had much success? Perhaps. Should it be undertaken if a woman is of normal weight? What if she is a light sleeper? What if her periods begin to dysregulate? Or stop? What if she starts getting acne, getting a stronger appetite, or losing her appetite altogether? These things happen, and I see them in women who fast and contact me time and time again.

We women (people!) should be honest with ourselves about our priorities, and act constantly with our mental and physical health foremost in our minds. All women are different. But the literature is so sparse in this area that we cannot make any real statements or predictions about the effects of fasting, other than that we just donít know, and that we should continue to emphasize the centrality of awareness, caution, and loving nourishment in moving forward.


I am always happy when people find things that work well for them however I am equally skeptical regarding the conclusion that what is good for one person is good for all people because it fails to take into account our diversity.

Fuzzy12
06-06-14, 11:58 AM
I am always happy when people find things that work well for them however I am equally skeptical regarding the conclusion that what is good for one person is good for all people because it fails to take into account our diversity.

I guess, this holds good for EVERYTHING but fasting is supposed to have health benefits apart from losing weight or controlling your weight as well.

SB_UK
06-06-14, 03:53 PM
Shattering the Myth of Fasting for Women: A Review of Female-Specific Responses to Fasting in the Literature (http://www.paleoforwomen.com/shattering-the-myth-of-fasting-for-women-a-review-of-female-specific-responses-to-fasting-in-the-literature/)


This post has focused on sex-specific responses to fasting. Another important distinction to make is between different body weights. Overweight and obese patients appear to experience significant improvements with IF regimes, but normal weight patients do not show the same across-the-board benefits. For women this may be a particularly sensitive issue. Overweight women may experience metabolic benefits, whereas normal weight women do not. I suspect that that may roughly be the case, but who knows. Honestly, no one.

The solution, then, in moving forward, is to look at options, to be honest about priorities, and to listen to oneís body with awareness and love. Is fasting worth trying if a woman is overweight and trying to improve her metabolic markers, and so far hasnít had much success? Perhaps. Should it be undertaken if a woman is of normal weight? What if she is a light sleeper? What if her periods begin to dysregulate? Or stop? What if she starts getting acne, getting a stronger appetite, or losing her appetite altogether? These things happen, and I see them in women who fast and contact me time and time again.

We women (people!) should be honest with ourselves about our priorities, and act constantly with our mental and physical health foremost in our minds. All women are different. But the literature is so sparse in this area that we cannot make any real statements or predictions about the effects of fasting, other than that we just donít know, and that we should continue to emphasize the centrality of awareness, caution, and loving nourishment in moving forward.


I am always happy when people find things that work well for them however I am equally skeptical regarding the conclusion that what is good for one person is good for all people because it fails to take into account our diversity.


In response to 40% CR, females became emaciated, ceased cycling, underwent endocrine masculinization, exhibited a heightened stress response, increased their spontaneous activity, improved their learning and memory, and maintained elevated levels of circulating brain-derived neurotrophic factor.

... ... ... pointing us towards the idea that this is an essential post-menopausal strategy ?

cf Healthy ageing - perhaps the single most important area of medical research - in the midst of a globally ageing population

- sadly ageing badly.

SB_UK
06-06-14, 04:00 PM
My personal feeling is that women need to adopt a more extreme form of fasting than males -
why ?
reduced caloric needs ... ...

Just a sec.

This kinda' nails the point:
Compared to men, women suffer a disproportionate burden of disease attributable to overweight and obesityhttp://www.patientsmedical.com/healthaz/obesityfemale/

The point I've made previously is that I think women are more evolutionarily precious - meaning that the female needs 'less' to survive optimally - and I certainly do realise that feeling special won't help to mitigate the pain of the extreme environmental change in (most notably) food intake - which will be required.

So far - I'd say that this is the strategy to combat inflammatory disorders.

I have 'em all and they appear - still early days - to be improving.

SB_UK
06-06-14, 04:12 PM
I am always happy when people find things that work well for them however I am equally skeptical regarding the conclusion that what is good for one person is good for all people because it fails to take into account our diversity.

Thing is - the technique works on animals from the worm!! (C. elegans) up ... ...

In studies going back to the 1930s, mice and many other species subsisting on a severely calorie-restricted diet have consistently outlived their well-fed peers by as much as 40 percent.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070502143834.htm

Any mechanism illustrated from the simplest organism up - is definitely going to apply to both women and men.

I can feel the pain of the suggestion though.

Big picture view - it's for the best for the planet and the starving many.
Also, naturally for the rich majority who're killing themselves through eating excess.

Tell you what though - eating every 4th day makes that 4th day eating pleasurable.

Lentils tomorrow !! :) <- in turmeric - yes! an anti-oxidant

- but we don't really need to worry about exotic anti-oxidants (though it's probably a good additional strategy) - additional to 3 day fasts.

SB_UK
06-06-14, 04:32 PM
A recent study which included males + females.

Our data indicate that the benefits of CR on ageing are conserved in primates.http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140401/ncomms4557/full/ncomms4557.html

-*-

Really - this is the one-stop shop for overcoming the major killers.
There's no way that caloric restriction can have a dramatic effect on "all-cause mortality" ie on everything unless it (eating too much) underlies all-cause(s of) disease."

SB_UK
06-06-14, 04:33 PM
Connecting back to previous points -
don't worry about your kids refusing vegetables

- following on from an intermittent fast - ALL food tastes great - opening the door to getting them to eat the veggie/MUFA-rich diet we're converging upon realising is the healthiest way to go.

Most efficient to produce, most healthy to eat - your gut biome will be proud.

SB_UK
06-06-14, 11:36 PM
... ... ... pointing us towards the idea that this is an essential post-menopausal strategy ? or maybe post child-birth ?

Ruling out much animal research because:

The animal kingdom is full of strange reproductive strategies, but when it comes to menopause, humans are among the weirdest. In just three species on the planet ó humans, killer whales and pilot whales ó do females routinely stop breeding years before the end of their lives. http://www.livescience.com/22574-animals-menopause.html

Dr Wallach lists a few more cases to further support this, including Russian Georgians who commonly live to 120 and the Armenians and Ebkanians, where living to 140 is not uncommon. http://www.eco-friendly-africa-travel.com/longevity-diet.html

20 Years physical development
10 years having children
110 years enjoying life as long as we live in a fair society + eat next to nothing.

Easy-peasy.

SB_UK
06-06-14, 11:47 PM
None of this is difficult for men who couldn't give a donkey's poop what we look like (kinda') - but woman may find these recommendations difficult because of greater pressure from society to look like they're 18.
Thing is is that 18's just a phase that you're require to go through.

Life begins at 40.

End of all of that mating nonsense and hello informational quality.

The enlightenment cept this time it's for real.

Human beings (come the time) are no longer (and that time can come to one and all) animals.

Eternal.

SB_UK
06-06-14, 11:50 PM
3 days fasting + 1 day ad libitum eating - way! easier than caloric restriction - cos we all cheat when we attempt to restrict calories and like who ?? has the self-discipline to weigh everything they eat - I tried it and bleughhhh!!!!

SB_UK
06-07-14, 01:14 AM
Taking into consideration the number of years of education ! the number of years of working to 'be safe' and the incredible cost of housing - few mothers can have children early - cannot make the transition into a healthy lifestyle easily (try fasting when stressed, try exercising when you've no time, try cooking healthily when you've no money from paying your mortgage - processed microwave dinners to the ?res...)

- long and short - society is violently anti-female.

Next factor in the ridiculous images of women in the media eg today's newspaper.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/10875379/Sexy-Rihannas-ad-isnt-just-sexual-its-unattainable-sexual.html

The desire to make her children happy ? in an unhappy world.
Consumerism and over-consumption - the child is irreversibly damaged (tooth decay etc) if pandered to.

Needing to earn, build, care for children, have a career, be attractive, keep children happy -
- what an unattainable chore.

If you have a child your career will be affected.

Can't have a career AND children.
Can't have happy AND healthy children.
Can't have healthy children IN current society.
Can't maintain attractiveness against ageing.
Can't use a power tool and maintain nails in perfect condition.

Life is hard for woman - whereas all men are required to do is change our underpants once monthly; and if you forget so you forget.
Just carry some vinegar around and spray yourself when you're smelly.

Society can take all of the pressure off mothers (noting that society doesn't appear to care about mothers - society seems more concerned with pretty female teens and rich psychopathic males - where the two more often than not connect) by seeing in a guarantee to all people of basic happy survival essentials for life - thereby removing any dependency relationship (through money) with male - undoubtedly increasing fidelity levels since man would have to behave, early to child without worrying about education, workplace and housing ladders and quick to switch to eating next to nothing of predominantly vegan food - alongside exercise.
Mother would no longer worry about child failing school, wouldn't worry about child abuse, wouldn't worry about child falling victim to drugs, about child being able to afford a house, start their life or settle down ... ...
All worries lifted noting that child abuse/drug abuse are reactively driven by a non-community based society in which division is driven through inequality through the economic system (which enforces inequality) ie they'd be eliminated in a world which is ostensibly free from money/legal establishments.

The black irony - I can't find anything that people do for money as being worthwhile.

We can simplify all people out of employment with the level of technological advancement that we have thus far achieved.

The feminist needs to use his/her biological programming as advisor - and not strive to be as psychopathic (as much power and as much money as possible) as the worst of males (and females).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/9510025/Gina-Rinehart-attacks-jealous-poor.html

What a sad lot human beings are.

Instead of striving to be free, people embrace their inner Gollum.

SB_UK
06-07-14, 02:23 AM
The first man who, having fenced in a piece of land, said "This is mine," and found people naÔve enough to believe him, that man was the true founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars, and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: Beware of listening to this impostor; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody. ” — Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Discourse on Inequality, 1754


from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse_on_Inequality

SB_UK
06-07-14, 02:32 AM
The enlightenment cept this time it's for real.
In moral and political philosophy, the social contract or political contract is a theory or model, originating during the Age of Enlightenmentfrom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract

More simply

Age of Enlightenment -> generates -> Social contract (equality of man)

Individual Enlightenment* -> generates -> Enforced moral consistency demands Social contract (equality of man)

* Enlightenment = completion of mind = wisdom = enforced moral consistency = global logical consistency with the wellbeing of the species (and all structures of phenomenological reality)

mildadhd
06-07-14, 06:59 PM
SB_UK

Could you help consider fructose intolerance/malapsorbtion?

I have always wondered why I felt more awake/happy when I drank scotch, and more drowsy/depressed when I drank rum, beer, etc..?

It seems beer and rum have a much higher fructose level than scotch, because of recipy and/or brewing process?

Could it possible even apples and bananas and grapes and other foods high in fructose, may be unhealthy for someone who lacks the ability to digest fructose?

Distressful side effects of to much fructose, build up in the system?

Side Note Recently someone bought organic bananas a few times and I didn't get heart burn, but if I eat the non organic bananas I get aweful heartburn.

P

SB_UK
06-09-14, 06:12 AM
I'm not entirely convinced that we're biochemically appropriately set up to consume fructose.

I don't really eat fruits.

We're much more customised to glucose usage.

Fructose variants do play a role downstream in glycolysis
- but I'm not convinced that we're able to handle it as a standard part of our diet.

Hfcs leads to visceral fat, maybe it's just fructose {period} which is 'playing' with our metabolism and driving us to inappropriate 'bad' fat deposition.

Occasionally have small amounts of berries - apparently lowest sugar containing fruit - where anti-oxidant levels are said to be high.

SB_UK
06-09-14, 06:21 AM
Just checked - lots of science to back up the idea eg

"Fructose, the research team found, had different effects to that of glucose and caused the fat cells to differentiate more -- that is, to form more mature fat cells -- but only in visceral fat."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/100621091203.htm

-*-

Alcohol's an interesting one -
'the paradox of alcohol' - 1 drink daily is apparently healthy (Barliman mentioned this recently) - aged whiskey/rich red wines score most highly apparently.


Article in front of me (Times) - claims the title - 'paradox of fat' - not convinced.

"People who question the obesity paradox suggest that it does not take into account smokers who have lower BMIs" ie will skew low BMI towards unhealthiness.

I'd go for the health benefits of having muscle.

From the article - "but people who are fatter tend to have more muscle".

Strong feeling that muscle is the good guy - personally I hate everything about fat.

SB_UK
06-09-14, 09:38 AM
Fasting Diary (from FB)

2014 - fasting schedule (to be edited)
------------------------------------------------------
[Fast 1] - 17th,18th,19th February [80 - 90 hours]
--- forgot to record fasting schedule ---
[Fast a] - 24th, 25th May
[Fast b] - 27th, 28th, 29th May ... no hunger felt.
[Fast c] - 31st, 1st, 2nd Jun ... no hunger felt.
[Fast d] - 4th, 5th, 6th Jun - no hunger felt
[Fast e] = 8th, 9th ... ... - no hunger felt

Something very peculiar going on here - appear to have overcome hunger.

What happens when one would normally feel hunger, is that my mind 'dreams' ... ... ... very peaceful.

SB_UK
06-09-14, 11:44 AM
Pretty sure that the endogenous cannabinoid system (associated with food intake) is playing a role here.

It feels like you're stoned when you'd normally expect to be hungry.

Very strange.

StrawBerry fields forever.

http://www.strawberry-fair.org.uk/images/site/banner.png

mildadhd
06-09-14, 01:14 PM
Thanks SB_UK

Eating low fructose foods really seems to help lessen my anxiety?

I feel calmer.

I don't want to say to much until I get a month or two under my belt.

In the past when I tried to improve my overall nutrition, but found it really hard.

But I never stopped eating apples, mango, pears etc, because I thought they where naturally healthy.

But it seems that foods high in fructose,(apples, oranges, mangos, etc, most foods high in fructose in the link below) where also making me feel messed up, and maybe even harder to eat right in general.

I was goggling around and it seems that there is a certain amount of enzymes to digest fructose, some people have less than others, so some people might be able to eat some fructose , while others can't.

There is a easy to understand chart in the link below that I am going to follow for a few months.

FRUCTOSE CONTENT OF FOODS (www.food-intolerance-network.com/food-intolerances/fructose-intolerance/fructose-table-in-alphabetical-order.html)

Side note: I also started drinking a tea "Chaga", that I think has some essential minerals that seems to be helping lower my cravings for everything, when I get various cravings.

Side Note#2: I have even tried a couple of extra large meals on purpose, but low in fructose, and didn't have any side effects that I seem to be having when I eat fructose.

But if I drink orange juice (even a little bit), etc, my ADHD seems to get worse.

Meaning that I don't seem to be diabetic but lacking enzymes?

Not sure, need to experiment for a few months, but I really appreciate your help.

I really needed some light.

Thanks again.

P


Side Note # 3 arthritis also seems to be less.

SB_UK
06-10-14, 11:41 PM
consumerism/consumption -> money -> must die

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muFOeZSIC2U

True hippy free love has nothing to do with sweaty squelchy physical activities.

We have a higher calling.

ps 3 day fasts - will try 4 soon - rock!!

Appetite regulation mechanism escaped.

Neuro. (partic. psych. stress) -> Endo. (cortisol resistance) -> Metabolo. (food profile eg high GI, w-6 fa, sugar, animal products, lectin grains) -> Inflammation

Metabolo. (food profile eg high GI, w-6 fa, sugar, animal products, lectin grains) -> physical stress -> Endo. (cortisol resistance) -> Inflammation

-*-

A certain profile of eating (not much) in a world characterized by equality, liberty, fraternity by eliminating money -> solves ALL human diseases pretty much.
Education to wisdom/pair-bonding - required - resulting in a shift in reward systems towards appetite control.

Mount Athos lifestyle (with one exception) meets a synthesis of ALL human learning (Universality) <- mind seeks global logical consistency with human wellbeing therefore must be challenged with (and withstand) ALL scientifically (actual) accrued information.

The various motifs in the garden - Tree of Knowledge (good/evil), serpent, apple, male+female, ejection, fundamental substance.

ruby.149.42
06-17-14, 06:40 AM
SB I don't get on here that much but do read a lot on my phone when I can. I've been reading about the fasting you cite above and sent a smile to you from Oz. I'm curious: who do you see this fasting being appropriate for? Your take on the science is much deeper than mine and from where I sit, I see it as more of a Ctrl+Alt+Delete for BSOD health situations rather than a regular de-frag (showing my age?)? Seriously though, in your view if someone is already vegetarian / exercising etc and healthy .. is there any benefit in this type of fasting? Or is it more of rebooting an immune system back into health from a compromised state?

Abi
06-17-14, 09:24 AM
SB you have a fan.

SB_UK
06-20-14, 11:39 AM
[Fast a] - 24th, 25th May
[Fast b] - 27th, 28th, 29th May ... no hunger felt.
[Fast c] - 31st, 1st, 2nd Jun ... no hunger felt.
[Fast d] - 4th, 5th, 6th Jun - no hunger felt
[Fast e] = 8th, 9th ... ... - no hunger felt

Extending

[Fast f] = 12,13,14,15 ... ... no hunger felt
[Fast g] = 17,18,19,20 ... ... no hunger felt [6pm 16th to 6am 21st = 108 hrs]

Day 4 is a bit harder than day 3 and 5.

Anyway no hunger.

-*-

Times Saturday 14th 2014
'myths about dieting'

Scientific research shows 84 hr fasts lead to increased not decreased metabolic rate.No sign of The Times article anywhere - this'll do:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html
Looking at the numerous studies I've read, the earliest evidence for lowered metabolic rate in response to fasting occurred after 60 hours (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3661473) (-8% in resting metabolic rate). Other studies show metabolic rate is not impacted until 72-96 hours have passed (George Cahill has contributed a lot on this topic).

Seemingly paradoxical, metabolic rate is actually increased in short-term fasting. For some concrete numbers, studies have shown an increase of 3.6% - 10% after 36-48 hours (Mansell PI, et al (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2405717), and Zauner C, et al (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10837292)). This makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. Epinephrine and norepinephrine (adrenaline/noradrenaline) sharpens the mind and makes us want to move around. Desirable traits that encouraged us to seek for food, or for the hunter to kill his prey, increasing survival. At some point, after several days of no eating, this benefit would confer no benefit to survival and probably would have done more harm than good; instead, an adaptation that favored conservation of energy turned out to be advantageous. Thus metabolic rate is increased in short-term fasting (up to 60 hours).

Again, I have choosen extreme examples to show how absurd the myth of "starvation mode" is - especially when you consider that the exact opposite is true in the context of how the term is thrown around.

SB_UK
06-20-14, 11:45 AM
SB I don't get on here that much but do read a lot on my phone when I can. I've been reading about the fasting you cite above and sent a smile to you from Oz. I'm curious: who do you see this fasting being appropriate for? Your take on the science is much deeper than mine and from where I sit, I see it as more of a Ctrl+Alt+Delete for BSOD health situations rather than a regular de-frag (showing my age?)? Seriously though, in your view if someone is already vegetarian / exercising etc and healthy .. is there any benefit in this type of fasting? Or is it more of rebooting an immune system back into health from a compromised state?

I think that fasting may trump all other interventions in promoting health - the single one stop shop perhaps even ?? regardless of food eaten on eating days and exercise.

So - would put fasting/CR first, actual diet second and exercise third in a list of priorities.

Just going on the basis of having experience in all three.

SB_UK
06-20-14, 11:49 AM
SB I don't get on here that much but do read a lot on my phone when I can. I've been reading about the fasting you cite above and sent a smile to you from Oz. I'm curious: who do you see this fasting being appropriate for? Your take on the science is much deeper than mine and from where I sit, I see it as more of a Ctrl+Alt+Delete for BSOD health situations rather than a regular de-frag (showing my age?)? Seriously though, in your view if someone is already vegetarian / exercising etc and healthy .. is there any benefit in this type of fasting? Or is it more of rebooting an immune system back into health from a compromised state?

ps apologies for not writing anything recently - the new food intake schedule appears to be reducing my desire to communicate - just want silence ... ...

SB_UK
06-21-14, 01:50 AM
I think that fasting may trump all other interventions in promoting health - the single one stop shop perhaps even ?? regardless of food eaten on eating days and exercise.

So - would put fasting/CR first, actual diet second and exercise third in a list of priorities.

Just going on the basis of having experience in all three.

Freedom from psychological stress (not needing money for happy survival) first and foremost.
fasting/CR 2nd, actual diet third and exercise fourth in a list of priorities.

[1-psych distress] chronic stress -> oxidative damage (ageing, disease)
[2-fasting/CR] -> autophagy (house-keeping)
[3-diet] -> emphasis on anti-oxidants (see 1)
[4-exercise] -> Interval training - improved fitness

SB_UK
06-21-14, 02:09 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_de_Grey#The_Seven_Types_of_Aging_Damage_Pro posed_by_de_Grey_.28The_Seven_Deadly_Things.29

The Seven Types of Aging Damage Proposed by de Grey (The Seven Deadly Things)All eliminated by autophagy.

FASTING.

Fasting easy if not stressed.

Eliminate only key stress - fear of lack of money by eliminating money -> alleviate stress -> fast -> live happily ever after -> discard animal/human/dental medical establishments.

For prevention is infinitely better than cure.

SB_UK
06-21-14, 02:47 AM
Freedom from psychological stress (not needing money for happy survival) first and foremost.
fasting/CR 2nd, actual diet third and exercise fourth in a list of priorities.

[1-psych distress] chronic stress -> oxidative damage (ageing, disease)
[2-fasting/CR] -> autophagy (house-keeping)
[3-diet] -> emphasis on anti-oxidants (see 1)
[4-exercise] -> Interval training - improved fitness

An entirely environmental basis to pretty much all disease.

We're not broken (genetics etc) - we break ourselves.

Key path to unbreaking ourselves - to realise this:

We need a revolution in the aims and methods of EDUCATION academic inquiry (primary through tertiary education), so that the basic aim becomes to promote wisdom by rational means, instead of just to acquire knowledge.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/from-knowledge-to-wisdom

- and to apply 'wisdom' teaching towards forming a globally collaborative society.

One~family.

SB_UK
06-25-14, 09:00 AM
We need a revolution in the aims and methods of EDUCATION academic inquiry (primary through tertiary education), so that the basic aim becomes to promote telling right from wrong by rational means, instead of just to acquire knowledge.

SB_UK
06-25-14, 09:45 AM
https://redstick.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/do_the_right_thing_cbs465960-784300.jpg

->

Development of (love/desire of) equality through a personal enquiry into morality (alongside application within an aligned social environment) as root to alleviation of suffering.

Abi
06-25-14, 09:48 AM
Hello SB :)

Been a while.

SB_UK
06-25-14, 09:55 AM
Just gotta' do the right thing.

Gotta' know what it is, gotta' do it,
gotta' feel good doing it <- the all new properly human reward system of 'right' motivation.

is the oneline synopsis of how to become properly human.

SB_UK
06-25-14, 09:58 AM
Hello SB :)

Been a while.

This crazy rolling 4 day fast makes an eating day seem like the best ever everyday that you've ever had.
Which is nice.

Lentils at 5am tomorrow.

That smilie reminds me of a yellowish lentil !

SB_UK
06-25-14, 10:05 AM
nds [Fast a] - 24th, 25th May
[Fast b] - 27th, 28th, 29th May ... no hunger felt.
[Fast c] - 31st, 1st, 2nd Jun ... no hunger felt.
[Fast d] - 4th, 5th, 6th Jun - no hunger felt
[Fast e] = 8th, 9th ... ... - no hunger felt

Extending

[Fast f] = 12,13,14,15 ... ... no hunger felt
[Fast g] = 17,18,19,20 ... ... no hunger felt [6pm 16th to 6am 21st = 108 hrs]
i = 22,23,24,25 <- best one yet - you get better at fasting with practice ie energy levels

SB_UK
06-25-14, 10:07 AM
hmmm... what's the nds ? doing in that post.

Time to do another phd.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/85/Zen_motorcycle.jpg/220px-Zen_motorcycle.jpg

Mi front + rear derailleurs are broken - and i can't fix 'em.

SB_UK
06-25-14, 11:57 PM
This crazy rolling 4 day fast makes an eating day seem like the best ever everyday that you've ever had.
Which is nice.

Lentils at 5am tomorrow.

That smilie reminds me of a yellowish lentil !

Lentils at 4.56 am !

Some sort of transition on Day 4/Night 5 of a fast - dizzy standing up, cramp, loss of energy.

With each fast - filling up on Day 5 requires less and less food with each passing fast - stuffed after 1/2 a plate lentils/rice - ready to fast again.

Just like exercise - we become 'better' with practice.

note - looks like we need to get down to ~3% body fat for optimal health

SB_UK
06-29-14, 05:12 AM
Talking to KD, Barliman.

Fat content alters human electrical properties - fat is a resistor, property used in body fat monitors which measure electrical impedance.

? alter electrical flow through body alter inflammation.

? Higher fat - higher 'energy' - exuberant growth cf immune systems.

-*-

Takehome message - ADHD is explained away by the the 'thrifty gene'
- a totally new 'type' which is optimised towards metabolic and mental and social efficiency ie to need little food [thrifty genome], to make the transition to wisdom [EOR -> AND mind structure ie there are no others] and to be social [cf mirror neurones of reward system - previous refs on anterior cingulate cortex].

Just don't stress:
metabolic eff -> wrong food
mental eff -> things that don't make sense from a moral wellbeing perspective
social eff -> antisocial activities ie money - leads to inequality by def antisocial

the ADDer !!

meadd823
06-29-14, 05:12 PM
... ... ... pointing us towards the idea that this is an essential post-menopausal strategy ?

cf Healthy ageing - perhaps the single most important area of medical research - in the midst of a globally ageing population

- sadly ageing badly.

The idea is that women and men are different {duh I know} but scientific studies so often fail to take this painfully obvious into account.

People who tend toward being over weight their ancestors are usually from areas of the world where famine was not uncommon - Those with the thrifty gene who survived because their bodies were designed to go periods of time without food. These are the obese people of the modern age where not only is food plentiful one does not necessarily have to go through a great deal of calorie burning to get it.

Female of reproductive age especially those who are of normal weight may cause hormonal deregulation by fasting. The body sensing a nutrition deficit may halt reproductive abilities by altering hormonal regulation toward the less feminine care taking of off spring and the more masculine aggression as in aggressively seeking food - reproducing during a time of deprivation is not evolutionary favorable

- Remember not all humans have the thrifty gene Some of us are from areas of the world where food was plentiful therefore our ancestors never had the need to adapt to long periods of time without food.

- Fasting for us will not produce the same results as we are not designed to do. Those are the folks who tend to be of normal weight and yes we do exist.

Post menopausal females there is not enough information out there to address this area specifically especially in normal weight women.

Personally I find I feel better eating gluten free and natural foods free of processing and crap ingredients I can not pronounce - this alone will decrease ones dietary intake as those foods are more expensive and harder to come by.

SB_UK
06-30-14, 03:15 PM
fast j = 27, 28, 29, 30

Getting 'angry' on day 4 - note connection to elevated sympathetic nervous system activity.

Also note - stimulant / sympathetic nervous system activating properties of dexedrine.

?? Natural stimulant therapy = fasting for 4 days.

Certainly - inattentive ADD is a lot like excess PNS [elevate 'rest'] activity -> makes sense ???

SB_UK
07-01-14, 01:49 AM
The idea is that women and men are different {duh I know} but scientific studies so often fail to take this painfully obvious into account.

People who tend toward being over weight their ancestors are usually from areas of the world where famine was not uncommon - Those with the thrifty gene who survived because their bodies were designed to go periods of time without food. These are the obese people of the modern age where not only is food plentiful one does not necessarily have to go through a great deal of calorie burning to get it.

Female of reproductive age especially those who are of normal weight may cause hormonal deregulation by fasting. The body sensing a nutrition deficit may halt reproductive abilities by altering hormonal regulation toward the less feminine care taking of off spring and the more masculine aggression as in aggressively seeking food - reproducing during a time of deprivation is not evolutionary favorable

- Remember not all humans have the thrifty gene Some of us are from areas of the world where food was plentiful therefore our ancestors never had the need to adapt to long periods of time without food.

- Fasting for us will not produce the same results as we are not designed to do. Those are the folks who tend to be of normal weight and yes we do exist.

Post menopausal females there is not enough information out there to address this area specifically especially in normal weight women.

Personally I find I feel better eating gluten free and natural foods free of processing and crap ingredients I can not pronounce - this alone will decrease ones dietary intake as those foods are more expensive and harder to come by.


Agree with all points -

[1] I think that an equivalent sized woman to man requires far less calories to survive - perhaps because of increased fat/decreased muscle in woman ie fat is metabolically lazy and muscle hungry ie suggesting that a woman of similar proportions to man requires less food/calories.
[2] I think the thrifty gene is the name for gradual selection and them emergence by epigenetic sculpting of the genome under starvation conditions ie gradual accumulation of histone/genome marks to reduce growth (see HDAC inhib argument on decreasing growth) - with 'completion' of sculpting ending at emergence of energetically efficient ADDer.
[3] Males ideally 2.5 - 5% body fat - women are higher ideally - especially if child birth required ... ... post-menopausally though maybe not ? However a low % body fat woman (2 1/2%) would have serious self-image issues in this vain age - unless they've overcome 'self' - which is very possible in this enlightening age.
[4] So - there's a spectrum of 'thriftiness' based on selection (I think) resulting in the emergence of the full blown thrifty genome.
[5] I think we may need to defined time-frames - and also mention that famine is a real threat in the majority ? of the world ? albeit not the world of Internet.
[6] As an example - on Athos - all normal weight and yet they fast 1 day in two - I think that my 1 day eating in 5 will have to drop down to 4 to 3 to 2 ... ... as I reach ~ 3% body fat ?
[7] Healthy ageing is the NUMBER ONE priority for man - the post-menopausal period is extending - lower energy expenditure - T2D/Obesity - diseases which're strongly associated with Alzheimers/cancer/inflammatory disorders ... ... we need to crack this syndrome.
Reduced food intake + Altered food intake + Exercise + De-stressing (not having to worry about pension by eliminating money)
- would do it.
[8] We can still eat plenty, if only proper food is consumed.
Most proper food isn't more-ish so I'd ask the question - normalizing food intake ? as opposed to exceeding food intake ? as the basis to 'this alone will decrease ones dietary intake'.

SB_UK
07-01-14, 02:22 AM
Kale smoothies, sprouted legumes, tempeh and kimchi flax and hemp seed surprise just isn't pizza - you can't consume truckloads but we do get to live to tell the tale.

All the wiring of sweet, salty and umami receptors up to 'reward' -
ie sweet tomatoes, salty cheese, umami pepperoni activating (at very high levels) the reward circuit.

'growth' promoting

But beware the taste for growth promotion because all of our cells have the capacity to go cancerous with selection for exuberantly growing cells.

Fasting/Autophagy is the solution.

Requiring a stress-less environment.

Kill money would do it.

SB_UK
07-01-14, 02:24 AM
With each fast - the amount of food we need to fill up goes down.

Will need to force myself to eat after lentils at dawn to power through the next fast period.

SB_UK
07-01-14, 02:36 AM
Kill money would do it.

is a sufficient summary of all of my posts.

You have to do something that is personally and not monetarily rewarding.

'Cos the love/desire of money is the root of all evil.

The love/desire is nurtured by replacement with a lifestyle which gains motivation through

SB_UK
07-06-14, 03:29 AM
6th July - Day 4 fasting - weight train - no problem.
However - some postural hypotension - dizziness.

But I quite like it ??? strangely.

Hypotensive effect of fasting: possible involvement of the sympathetic nervous system and endogenous opiates (http://www.sciencemag.org/content/217/4561/727)

High blood pressure is the biggest global killer...but obesity isn't far behind, warn leading scientists.Fasting destroys both.

endogenous opiate activation, therefore, may contribute to the hypotensive effect of fasting

SB_UK
07-06-14, 03:42 AM
nds [Fast a] - 24th, 25th May
[Fast b] - 27th, 28th, 29th May ... no hunger felt.
[Fast c] - 31st, 1st, 2nd Jun ... no hunger felt.
[Fast d] - 4th, 5th, 6th Jun - no hunger felt
[Fast e] = 8th, 9th ... ... - no hunger felt

Extending

[Fast f] = 12,13,14,15 ... ... no hunger felt
[Fast g] = 17,18,19,20 ... ... no hunger felt [6pm 16th to 6am 21st = 108 hrs]
i = 22,23,24,25 <- best one yet - you get better at fasting with practice ie energy levels
j 27 28 29 30
k 2 3 4 5th July [34 days fasting to 5th July in this current run]

SB_UK
07-06-14, 04:21 AM
over-Consumerism (destroying planet) and over-Consumption (destroying human beings) are paired.

They relate to the animal (primitive) reward system not yet being replaced by the properly human (social) reward system.

A transition from getting one's kicks from materialism (love of money, power and stuff)
to
getting one's kicks from properly moral behaviours [morally appointed communication ?telepathic?]/ sensory quality.

Money cements the primitive reward system in place.

You can optimally activate the higher (properly human) reward system in the absence of money (stuff) - at least all bar the basics which ALL human beings can have.

SB_UK
07-06-14, 04:45 PM
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1662247&postcount=9
Fasted Training Boosts Cellular Housekepping (=Autophagy) That being said, a group of researchers from the Universitť catholique de Louvain in Belgium set out to study whether the two major pro-apoptotic mechanisms in our lives, i.e. working out and fasting would complement each other so that their effects add up and you get the double dose of healthy - and as you have learned today "muscle (re-)building" cell death.

Can you combine it? Yes you can! http://suppversity.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/want-to-clean-up-cellular-garbage-train.html

And finally add iron [vegan source].

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1662247&postcount=9

A triple dose of healthy !!!

SB_UK
07-06-14, 04:55 PM
Danger - EVERYTHING connecting.

http://suppversity.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/want-to-clean-up-cellular-garbage-train.html
only fasted training was able to increase the AMPK levelshttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20533901
AMPK acts as an energy sensor of the cell and works as a key regulator of mitochondrial biogenesis.Love your mitochondria with training during 4 day fasts and feasting on vegan iron (lentils [soaked], spinach, tofu [fermented, organic, non-GM] and quinoa [washed,soaked]) dal.

6th July - Day 4 fasting - weight train - no problem.

Not hard - just a case of getting used to it.

only fasted training was able to increase the AMPK levels (=anti-cancer, anti-diabetic, anti-obesity effect) in young men (van Proyen. 2011).

Love thy mitochondria !
(neighbours aren't paticularly lovable)

SB_UK
07-08-14, 04:50 AM
[L] fast - 7,8,9,10th[d=38] July
- test 1x200mg ferrous fumarate on 8th

First observation - relaxation.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1662645&postcount=13

SB_UK
07-08-14, 08:00 AM
So
- we've connected everything from mental disorders (schizophrenia - Dutch Hunger Winter, autism - feeding mother ketone bodies in pregnancy (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15238991)**) to physical disorders (neurological, metabolic and immunological) taking in cancer into a shared biochemical/metabolic story.

That basic story is bodily growth (promoting factors) from conception reduce and are replaced by mental (neural re-connection) (promoting factors) taking us through to state 'wisdom' - at which point we jettison the attraction (physical/primitive reward system for blood glucose elevation/growth) - and live for complexity of neural network as indivative (internally) of the development of a central nervous system which recognizes and enjoys quality.

Blood glucose important for bodily growth.
Ketones (fasting protocols) important for mental growth.
State wisdom - reward system (blood glucose elevation) discarded.
Food (material world reward) no longer important - now live for quality in informational domain ie not for growth/proliferation metabolic state but neural re-arrangement state.

** See gestational diabetes - cause - stress/inappropriate diet.
As with all of the T2Ds - fully preventable by eating a low GI diet in a low stress environment.

-*-

It's all just about ensuring a lifestyle which is in keeping with completion of physical, neural, mental development and then the 'training' of neural networks to recognize quality.

Unsurprising - if we look in nearly all fields from books, music, film etc - there's often an inelegant and elegant thread which are at loggerheads - the inelegant thread is associated with the material world (ie people who love money, power and fame) and the elegant thread features individuals who live for their artform and shun the material world pleasures -

the pattern.

SB_UK
07-15-14, 01:57 PM
[L] fast - 7,8,9,10th[d=38] July
- test 1x200mg ferrous fumarate on 8th

First observation - relaxation.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1662645&postcount=13


M fast - 12,13,14,15th July [d=42 fasting]
Deleted ferrous fumarate on 9th - made me hungry !
Will drink decaff coffee, earl grey + stevia, miso [<- salt for bp] + tabasco and the occasional sugar-free sweet (more than 3 stomach problems) or boiled sweet prior to weight training.
Exercising on all 4 days of fast now.
No problem - up to 5 hours.
Sore feet sometimes though.
Low blood pressure/dizziness on day 4 fast - very low blood pressure.

Basic idea is out there:
Nutritional sufficiency in early life can influence the incidence and time of onset of autoimmune diabetes in animal models ( Pedersen et al . 1999 , Oge et al . 2007 ). Altered dietary protein content has been shown to exacerbate diabetes, a high-protein diet accelerated the onset of disease ( Schneider et al . 1996 ) while a protein-rich high-fat diet increased b -cell loss by apoptosis in pre-diabetic NOD mice ( Linn et al . 1999 ). We report here that a LP but isocalorific diet can delay the onset of diabetes in the NOD mouse.

Edge of starvation.

SB_UK
07-24-14, 04:44 AM
M fast - 12,13,14,15th July [d=42 fasting]
N - 17th 18th ... ... weakness rather than hunger, handlebar palsy, no real pleasure in eating, depressed mood -- all in line with hot/sunny weather therefore surprising. State of mind key in fasting - if generally down then fasting harder.
O - 22 23 24 25th

SB_UK
07-28-14, 10:49 AM
M fast - 12,13,14,15th July [d=42 fasting]
N - 17th 18th day 44

40 day fast II
A - 27th,28th July [day 2]
So - no iron tablets, no occasional sweets whether sugar-free or not, no miso to supplement salt, little caffeine (sick on green tea, mouth hurts on coffee, strange metallic taste with black tea) - however will use MCT oil (I think) maybe?

Noticed that nothing solid can now be eaten with MCT oil.

MCT oil appears to help calm the mind during fasting.

Very attracted to the idea of MCT oil because of its connection to ketone bodies; don't really like taking it though.

Sole problem with fasting - negative mood - anger ... ... hoping MCT oil will assist here.

SB_UK
07-29-14, 02:55 AM
Really can't shake the idea that (and based around recent discussion of autism/valproic acid model)

- that physical growth -> carbs/protein [Insulin/IGF-1/GH axis]
- followed by
- mental connectivity -> ketosis

IE that the increased internal connectivity of neurones / complexity of neural structure relates to an internal machine which detects sensory quality and is built by ketosis.

IE that growth of the physical body through transition in completion in mind (a neural structure rearrangement) into ever more complex neural structures processing sensory information cf Huxley's 'opening of the doors to perception'

This is a really neat idea and shows how an overfed materialistic/over-consuming/greedy species will tend towards a central nervous structure which lacks the capacity to definie/divine/enjoy quality.

What's the secret to ketosis ?
I think it's heavy fasts/exercise in the sun

- with a little oil to help when the 'tightness' is felt - it's a kinda' uneasiness.

So I use MCT oil - but EVOO, EVCO or ghee ? maybe.

Not sure whether a few mls of oil are necessary - seem to help.

SB_UK
07-29-14, 03:03 AM
I think that carbs/protein fuel elongation - > -> -> nervous systems ie imagine a tower - not connected to adjacent towers - potentially very tall ie locally logically consistent, potentially very complicated isolated system.

I think that ketosis fuels network formation ... ... ...

So global logical consistency of mind.
Increased capacity to enjoy sensory quality - internal higher resolution machinery for enjoying the sensory world.

Kinda' like evolution of a 100 ppi to 1000 ppi screen on the inside of our heads
- a more satisfying immersion in sensory quality.

Makes sense since withdrawal of food results in community formation
- in order to survive.

So selection of a mind which enjoys quality through altering our metabolic profile from growth to maintenance

- representign a switch from carbs/protein to fat.

Problem - all of our senses are tuned to sweet, starch, umami, salty
- ie to carbs/fat.

SB_UK
07-29-14, 03:25 AM
Healthy ageing.

It's all about overcoming ROS.

Taken together, our data suggest that KB may prevent mPT and oxidative injury in neocortical neurons, most likely by decreasing mitochondrial ROS production.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/51384645_Ketone_bodies_are_protective_against_oxid ative_stress_in_neocortical_neurons

SB_UK
07-29-14, 03:31 AM
Fasting for as little as three days

http://education.med.nyu.edu/courses/molecular/AminoAcids06/questions/questions_gifs/starvation.GIFhttp://www.medbio.info/images/time3-4/homeos3.jpg

Grrr!!! maybe 10 day fasts are optimal ... ... ...

SB_UK
07-29-14, 03:37 AM
After 2 or 3 days of fasting, the liver begins to synthesize ketone bodies from precursorshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response

Length of starvation period ?

4 days
10 days
14 days
21 days
40 days ???

Supplementation with a few mls oil when we s-l-o-w down (weakness)
? 'hitting the wall' ?

-*-

Starvation is essential to health.

[neatly solving ALL human problems - since not only will the physical world probelsm of global food availability be solved ... ... but starvation will result in a ketone body associated metabolic supporting shift in neural structures forming mind and sensory neural machinery network formation - resulting in people showing morality/enjoying sensory quality as reward system]

Win - Win.

http://basementrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/spirited-away-parents-turned-into-pigs.jpg

The difference between properly human beings and animals.

SB_UK
07-29-14, 03:42 AM
Solution to all of our problems.

Irritating man
->
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHQpTB53ft3c-__M7KkCa5k1Wd-OyTqPbp3QCrUAFOGly13ZF1Ww

Healthy (phsyically, psychologically, spiritually) man
->
http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/roy-skelton/1492654.jpg

SB_UK
07-29-14, 03:47 AM
One more time.


Over consumption -> planetary, species, individual destructive
Over consumerism -> planetary, species, individual destructive

Same root - materialism - growth promoting type embraced - nervous networks not promoted through metabolic milieu
- planetary destruction to consumerism, individual destruction T2D and obesity to uncontrolled growth.

Ultimately - reward system shaped by metabolic milieu - eat protein.carbs and we choose the wrong reward system - because the right - mind formation / quality sensing cannot form.

IE nerves re-associate preferentially under ketosis.
nerves dis-associated under insulin/IGF-1/GH paradigm.

Easy.


Noting that Alzheimers = TIIID and Cancer is effectively destroyed by ketosis (see Warburg effect ie ketosis downplays glycolysis) ie cure for cancer.

SB_UK
07-29-14, 03:57 AM
Additional points

1.30ml MCT oil + 30ml EVOO seem to work well together - when weak fasting - also - naturally KB promoting.
Also 10g 90% chocolate + tea/stevia really curbs appetite.

2. Time - still attracted to CKD of carbs 1 day and then 4 days fasting ... ... with eating day involving much exercise - dropping down in intensity through to day 5.
Sole problem - sole - feet turning black with walking/cycling.

3. Why carbs 1 day in 5 ?
Feels like it might arrest any persistent drop in basal metabolic rate.

4. What when we reach a very low body fat percentage ?
Thrifty gene involved in ADHD should make it terribly easy to put weight back on.

Just add carbs.

-*-

So - 10 day fasts [supplemented with a little oil] with exercise
vs
CKD - 5 day fasts with more intense exercise

More attracted to the CKD route - but I don't know.

Note -weight training is fun whilst fasting - thought it'd be hard !!

SB_UK
07-29-14, 04:05 AM
Also - just scanning up -

connecting to low central/= and normal/high peripheral iron in ADDers

- impact of Fe -> handling <- Oxygen

ie I think that Fe is essential to helping us in our battle against oxygen/ROS ... ... via autophagy.

Still noting natural iron ie soya, spinach, lentils and quinoa are screaming at me.

-*-

So - ultimately - we're looking at (in strictly material world terms ie the physical body alone) - a mechanism of attenuating the harm of aerobic respiration.
Where the harm is attenuated by a switch from high ROS generating carbs/protein to low ROS generating KBs ... ... occurring alongside complexity of neural structure ie
-> wisdom structure of mind formation
-> sensory quality neural network formation

- resulting in shift from animal (primitive) to properly human (modern/higher) reward system.

-*-

DEFINITELY.

But you can't come up with this conclusion without taking ALL information into account.

SB_UK
07-29-14, 04:13 AM
Noting ref also to soluble fibre / high anti-oxidant food

ie food grown in sun, proper food, organic food and gut biome formation.

Also - connection between healthy biomic bacteria and butyrate formation and human b-hydroxybutyrate ie KB formation.

Broadly - a shift in human biochemistry from an acetate to a butyrate focus ?

http://www.chemspider.com/ImagesHandler.ashx?id=25939573&w=200&h=200

1

C-COOH
to
CCC-COOH

3

SB_UK
07-29-14, 04:31 AM
So bringing it all together.

An entirely environmental basis to ALL disease

[1] Natural high anti-xidant food -> gut bacteria
[2] Fasting -> autophagy
[3] Exercise -> all types partic. long distance, Tabata, weights, stretching [<-pro Gaba muscle relaxand effects of KBs]
[4] Education <- to develop a mind which rationally* knows what is right and what is wrong
[5] Creativity <- honing art as the replacement system for reward taking over post-mind formation
[6] Language <- ability to personally communicate as expression of mind - inconsistencies can be ironed out by talking to consistency
[7] Morality <- generated from points above
* [8] - A connected science education ie it's not just 'academic' - you're meant to understand science not have it inflicted on you.

Leaving pair-bond formation / children
- which could well be the route onto attachment onto a species level structure ie the association of male and female archetype minds of systematizing / empathizing
-> as a key part of connection onto a species level mind - a state of mind - upon enlightenment/pair-bonding
- where people both listen and speak to other people.

It's difficult to explain though clear to see that until this stage occurs - people don't actually communicate - they talk AT other people not with other people.

Peculiar observation that as soon as we are able to talk with other people - that we don't have anything to say - though maybe it's more something that we experience which is the ability to collaborate effectively at this point in human growth ie it's not a facility we can use in this current world

- so yes - we don't have anything to say to people with the wise mind in this world - because all of the stuff we say to each other is dumb

- but in a properly collaborative world - there will be 'things' worth saying/co-operating alongside other people.

Defining what the corporation should be.

A voluntary structure of people trying to do as much good as possible.

Elegance is the key - natural systems with minimal human intervention, fully automated robotic systems, natural recycling, natural farming practices (Polyface farm) ... ... natural, sustainable, scaleable, increasing in complexity, increasing in fidelity, increasing in resolution

- but ultimately it's just a moral [logically consistent with species wellbeing] world of sensory quality ... ... which references the transfer of human from animal (eat, materialism, consumerism, over0consumption) into an organism with fixed level of morality and enjoying quality.

IE society mirrors change in man
- where from the 80's we've observed a complete reversal in human transition towards morality/sensory quality by virtue of (ultimately) seizing the wrong reward system (selfishness) supported by metabolic state (high carbs, protein) ... ...

SB_UK
07-29-14, 04:38 AM
What don't you like ?

I think that somebody has to work out what mathematics is.
IE to develop a mathematics with true axioms, which expands and can be taught easily - which we know what it is we're teaching, why it is people should take in what they're learning, how we apply the information ... ...

Every other area can be made to make sense - but how mathematics (model) and physics (real world) join - still worries me.

I don't want a maths of 0, infinity, straight lines (the physical world has no straight lines), circles (there are no circles in the physical world)
- so am happy with a truce that as long as maths is forced into an entirely virtual sphere and kept away from the physical world - that we'll be OK.

Making maths fit physics hurts the mind.

Physics is an interconnected real world structure.
Maths is a virtual model which cannot exist.

Though the tree formed by abstraction layer can be understood mathematically ... ... but the problem comes when we cross abstraction layers ... ... don't know.

Still no closer to understanding why I'm overwhelmingly interested and completely disinterested in maths.

Everything in the Universe can be understood as a mathematical emergent simulation ie everything makes sense - with the proviso that every so often with evolution - something happens which generates something completely unimaginable ... ... but what do we want from maths ?

So - we can consider 'God' a mathematician.
But do human beings want to be that 'God'.

So - is the interest in maths to be God, and the disinterest in maths to be God.

Or perhaps the interest in maths is simply what we feel we need to be, in order to make sense of context.
But making sense of conext requires language/science and little maths.
There're only a few patterns in religious texts ... ... ...

Don't know whether what people want from maths isn't what one gets from maths ie we get to perform transformations, but transformations which don't take us closer to a personal understanding of reality.

It would be nice to frame mathematics - it's just odd that the simplest of subjects, the only subjects which prmary schoolchildren complete degrees in - gets carried away with itself.

Is there a trimmed back mathematics which can be derived from emergence... ... would it be a definition of the process of emergence - ie a series of ~24 hierarchical ANDs which herald completion in a structure formed from a novel emergent property.
So - 0 would be immediately prior to emergence ie completion of a previous structure

So: 0 = OOO
Then new emergent structure property pops out:
OOO-
ie
-
And then what follows is 24 levels of hierarchy:
< < < etc
Giving rise ultimately to infinity / zero ie on completion the structure folds back into itself (infinity) as it passes out of our dualistic penomenological reality
- and forms a structure with resonant synchrony with fundamental substance
ie zero.

-*-

More simply.

Fundamental substance 0
stage 2 -- Duality 000
Emergence
000-
Duality/hierarchy
- undergoes 24 levels of hierarchy
Upon completion (see incomplete circle of Ouroboros) - we have a transition to infinity
Forming 0 (resonant synchrony with fundamental substance) <- frame of Higgs Boson/standard boson
Go back to start ie
0 -> {0} -> {{0}} etc etc etc ie God - creator - fundamental substance - evolutionary imperative - blind watchmaker etc etc etc



So that takes in 0, infinity ... ... differentiation, integration
- complexity (the complex number is the dual to the real).

SB_UK
07-29-14, 04:59 AM
Fasting is the key to switching on all stem cell systems.

(not just the immune cell - this thread)

Make sense - if you delete old and damaged cells - and you need replacements - makes sense that the stem cell 'd be called into action.

SB_UK
07-30-14, 05:46 AM
Human beings need only food + temperature regulation

Mitochondria are responsible for energy (ATP) and temp regulation (uncoupling)

Energy
carb <- really poor energy
fat <- better energy
ketone body <- best energy -> feeds directly into mitochondrial processes at Complex II (can't remember)

carb -> blood glucose elevation <- primitive reward system see dexedrine -> stimulant
The drugs no longer work.

Problem

fat -> ketone body (b-hydroxybutyrate) -> mitochondria
or
soluble fibre + anti-oxidant -> gut biome -> SCFA (see MCT oil) -> liver -> ketones -> mitochondria

However now cannot combine MCT oil with any food.

So - thinking:

ketone bodies -> butyrate -> gut biome biosynthetic factory -> generate all factors we need (vitamins etc)

However we know

sun -> melanin -> SCFA

Problem - materialism is about to be completely transcended.

This has to be the solution:

Sun -> melanin -> SCFA -> liver -> Ketone body -> mitochondria (food + shelter)
Sun -> melanin -> SCFA -> liver -> Ketone body -> butyrate -> gut biome -> accessory molecules eg vitamins, protein etc

So that's completely transcending dependence for survival on the material world.
Completely eliminates the human parasitic rentier capitalist as nobody can now make you do anything for survival.

-*-

Problem

Final stage - definitely a desire for ONLY sun.
Definitely can't mix MCT oil with solid food.
Definitely feel happy with MCT oil/EVOO when not eating.
Definiely dexedrine doesn't work -> pain in mouth, no effect on mind

Ever so close - but 1 stage away.

Need to go solar.

SB_UK
07-30-14, 09:31 AM
The better option would be:

Love (social structure formation) as species level formation -> melanin -> as above.

How is love transduced into energy ?

All I needhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTHjFeXmnHs

So pair-bond formation can definitely activate reward.
In fact from music/movies/literature it appears to be what we want.
Pair-bonds scale to give a systematizing-empathizing species level structure.
Species level structure kept in place with frame of Boson (Higgs boson, standard boson).

Now how is resonant synchrony with God translated into chemical energy.

1st attempt ?
Driven circulation of prana/chi ie a form of electrical energy which drives chemical energy generation.

That could be right.

So - imagine human beings being suspended within a forever alternating magnet - internal qi/prana circulates -

we become AC devices (as an improvement from DC)

- we enjoy the feeling of internal circulation.

See musical chills - can feel the circulation.

So - tentatively - social structure formation resulting in the creator supplying all~we~need.

Post-materialism Post-modern man living for beauty in all things.
Now that's what it's all about.

SB_UK
07-30-14, 09:34 AM
Imagine a life shaping quality.
Only creativity.

Only beauty.

It lies in store.

As soon as we overcome the beast inside which seeks to war.
And all of its minions from the love of money, pollution, ugliness, inelegance, inefficiency, dirt, future blindness dreaming of a past which is long gone, servitude, knowing one's place, doing what we're told ... ...

Nonsense.

SB_UK
07-30-14, 09:51 AM
Small error -

nothing wrong with maintaining taste.
Simply divorce taste from energy ie can still experience the finest tastes, develop plate etc -
but not for energy production ie eating becomes about the sensory quality and not about stuffing as much processed flour and factory farmed meat into your rapidly degrading body.

Quality - ? anti-oxidant diversity and taste.

Sun-kissed whatever, UV drenched mountain side - an unbelievable array of tastes ??

ADD is the reaction - the very antithesis to all that is base (brutal,without taste).
A shift from material world attachment to informational world (quality) attachment.

IE the love of quality.

This current world is of ZERO (no) quality; it's rubbish.

SB_UK
07-30-14, 09:57 AM
Summarising.

Everything makes sense - we're now awaiting emeregence ie novel species level property.
Very tempted to connect imminent magnetic pole shift with the emergence of a novel species level property.

Human beings can't go on being rabid money/property loving monsters.

I guarantee you - that is the path straight to Hell.

ruby.149.42
07-31-14, 10:01 PM
So bringing it all together.

An entirely environmental basis to ALL disease

[1] Natural high anti-xidant food -> gut bacteria
[2] Fasting -> autophagy
[3] Exercise -> all types partic. long distance, Tabata, weights, stretching [<-pro Gaba muscle relaxand effects of KBs]
[4] Education <- to develop a mind which rationally* knows what is right and what is wrong
[5] Creativity <- honing art as the replacement system for reward taking over post-mind formation
[6] Language <- ability to personally communicate as expression of mind - inconsistencies can be ironed out by talking to consistency
[7] Morality <- generated from points above
* [8] - A connected science education ie it's not just 'academic' - you're meant to understand science not have it inflicted on you.


Which is why I love Steiner / Waldorf. Get rid of the competiton, ban logos, let the kids stay up trees for a few extra years (perfect for ADD) and THEN let the learning unfold .. through mixing all sense together. Maths taught through art and philosophy etc .. makes kids understand WHY, garners their interest.

Also this (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/daniel-goleman-and-peter-senge-collaborate-to-offer-educators-actionable-tools-and-groundbreaking-concepts-in-the-triple-focus-a-new-approach-to-education-267040421.html).. very promising. Dan Goleman & Peter Senge new educational paradigm focused on focs, empathising and systematising - due out next month.


It's difficult to explain though clear to see that until this stage occurs - people don't actually communicate - they talk AT other people not with other people.

Very clear to see - just take a look at majority of threads in this neck of the forums I reckon.


IE society mirrors change in man
- where from the 80's we've observed a complete reversal in human transition towards morality/sensory quality by virtue of (ultimately) seizing the wrong reward system (selfishness) supported by metabolic state (high carbs, protein) ... ...

Curiously similar timing to that first graduating year (plague?) of MBAs ..:scratch:

The better option would be:

Love (social structure formation) as species level formation -> melanin -> as above.

How is love transduced into energy ?


Don't know. This is key. Currently trying to get some insights using that Emwave that KD put me onto. Getting pretty fast at zapping my fear/anxiety/anger etc states and transforming into bliss. Compassion meditation .. - it's that same eudaimonic feeling and I'm convinced the answer is in there somewhere.

Summarising.

Everything makes sense - we're now awaiting emeregence ie novel species level property.
Very tempted to connect imminent magnetic pole shift with the emergence of a novel species level property.

Human beings can't go on being rabid money/property loving monsters.

I guarantee you - that is the path straight to Hell.

I'm with you 100% on that one (although I still reckon GTA5 is an accelerator and would like it and sundry banned so the kids can get back out into the sunshine).

Great thread. From the 40% I understand that is :).