View Full Version : Abnormal brain iron levels may be a biomarker of ADHD


finallyfound10
06-20-14, 01:32 PM
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/278362.php

SB_UK
06-30-14, 02:52 PM
The top 4 or so vegan sources of iron appear to be the only foods I crave !!

lentils
spinach
tofu
quinoa

[all in one dish]

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/iron.php

<table id="table11" class="article" summary="Iron Content of Selected Vegan Foods" align="center"><tbody><tr><td>Soybeans,cooked</td><td>1 cup</td><td class="value">8.8</td></tr> <tr><td>Blackstrap molasses</td><td>2 Tbsp</td><td class="value">7.2</td></tr> <tr><td>Lentils, cooked</td><td>1 cup</td><td class="value">6.6</td></tr> <tr><td>Spinach, cooked</td><td>1 cup</td><td class="value">6.4</td></tr> <tr><td>Tofu</td><td>4 ounces</td><td class="value">6.4</td></tr> <tr><td>Bagel, enriched</td><td>1 medium</td><td class="value">6.4</td></tr> <tr><td>Chickpeas, cooked</td><td>1 cup</td><td class="value">4.7</td></tr> <tr><td>Tempeh</td><td>1 cup</td><td class="value">4.5</td></tr> <tr><td>Lima beans, cooked</td><td>1 cup</td><td class="value">4.5</td></tr> <tr><td>Black-eyed peas, cooked</td><td>1 cup</td><td class="value">4.3</td></tr> <tr><td>Swiss chard, cooked</td><td>1 cup</td><td class="value">4.0</td></tr> <tr><td>Kidney beans, cooked</td><td>1 cup</td><td class="value">3.9</td></tr> <tr><td>Black beans, cooked</td><td>1 cup</td><td class="value">3.6</td></tr> <tr><td>Pinto beans, cooked</td><td>1 cup</td><td class="value">3.6</td></tr> <tr><td>Turnip greens, cooked</td><td>1 cup</td><td class="value">3.2</td></tr> <tr><td>Potato</td><td>1 large</td><td class="value">3.2</td></tr> <tr><td>Quinoa</td><td>8 ounces</td><td class="value">3.0</td></tr></tbody></table>

TygerSan
06-30-14, 04:04 PM
Huh. I prefer chickpeas myself, but yeah, these are mostly foods I like a lot. I wonder what my serum iron levels are, let alone brain levels :scratch:

SB_UK
07-01-14, 01:17 AM
Huh. I prefer chickpeas myself, but yeah, these are mostly foods I like a lot. I wonder what my serum iron levels are, let alone brain levels :scratch:


Last eating days - chickpeas a plenty.

SB_UK
07-01-14, 02:28 AM
Those foods (previous observation) - high in magnesium and phosphorus also.

note - really need to get our head around pre-soaking routines for nuts, seeds and beans.

I've just eliminated grains.

Corina86
07-01-14, 07:22 AM
Kind of a small study, but interesting though. I really hope they validate this on more test-subjects.

I also wonder what it means for the brain and for the body: why do ADHD-ers have lower brain levels of iron if the iron in the blood is normal?

Amtram
07-05-14, 11:05 AM
You can't change this with food or supplements. It's not strictly iron level, but iron levels affected by processing of iron. Iron itself cannot pass the blood-brain barrier without a ferrous transporter, so if you don't have that working properly, the iron is just going to stay in your bloodstream.

SB_UK
07-06-14, 12:47 PM
Iron is the most important inducer of reactive oxygen speciestherefore low iron in the brain is good ???

http://nro.sagepub.com/content/6/6/435.abstract

Very difficult to analyse ADHD when all avenues lead to the observation that there are very significant advantages associated with the ADDotype if we peer beneath the disorder of living in thicko world where being nasty is a pre-requisite for survival.

SB_UK
07-06-14, 12:54 PM
The role of iron and reactive oxygen species in cell death
http://www.nature.com/nchembio/journal/v10/n1/full/nchembio.1416.html?WT.ec_id=NCHEMBIO-201401

Well I've a brain which wants to avoid cell death and a body which is full of immune cells which're reacting to self or inocuous allergens which I'd like to have cell executed - so high iron in the periphery low iron in the brain works for me !!

Not really ever thought about the impact of iron on ROS before.

Just thought ROS comes from stressed out mitochondria.

question - wonder whether the process of autophagy which occurs in fasting is assisted by iron (cell death). Certainly makes sense - iron is calling to me.

Just internet links.
Fasted Training Boosts Cellular Housekepping (=Autophagy) One of the mechanisms of programmed cell death (PCD) is associated with the appearance of autophagosomes (autophagy)Apoptosis: A Review of Programmed Cell DeathThe role of iron and reactive oxygen species in cell death
http://www.nature.com/nchembio/journal/v10/n1/full/nchembio.1416.html?WT.ec_id=NCHEMBIO-201401

Thinking that cleaning ourselves up on the inside is helped by a heapin' helpin' of iron in fastin' - though (and a pattern emerging) is that we treat the brain/mind differently to the rest of the body ie the physical body is all about completion of growth whereas the brain/mind isn't really about growth but re-connections.

-*-

Pretty sure this desire for iron stems from the desire in fasting to kill off all of the nasties (autophagy) which occur during the rough and tumble of oxidative phosphorylation - it's tough handling oxygen - a jolly reactive chap which takes some taming.
So strong suggestion that 4 day fasts include a day of eating iron rich foods to give your body a deep cleanse.

Forget coffee enemas, sushi earplugs and herbal skull caps - all you need to do is stop eating and get a little iron down ya' the natural way.

mildadhd
07-07-14, 08:12 PM
The period of development is also important to recognize.

The earlier age, the more sensitive.

When the infants brain is developing for the first time, iron deficiency damage due to malnutrition ,and/or, distress during prenatal periods and early life may result in some life long impairments. (Pre Anemia?)

But if the iron deficiency occurs after the brain becomes more mature/developed/established,distress and iron deficiency damage is less permanent, may improved with proper nutrition and eustress.




P

SB_UK
07-08-14, 03:44 AM
The period of development is also important to recognize.

The earlier age, the more sensitive.

When the infants brain is developing for the first time, iron deficiency damage due to malnutrition ,and/or, distress during prenatal periods and early life may result in some life long impairments. (Pre Anemia?)

But if the iron deficiency occurs after the brain becomes more mature/developed/established,distress and iron deficiency damage is less permanent, may improved with proper nutrition and eustress.




P

Controlled death of cells is as much a part of embryonal development as is cell proliferation and differentiation.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8801138

Meaning that we'll be compromising the developmental process proper without !! proper nutrition.

What is proper nutrition ?
A low glycaemic index predominantly vegan organic MUFA-rich diet.

Iron aplenty.

SB_UK
07-08-14, 03:57 AM
Children are particularly vulnerable to iron deficiency anaemia because of their increased iron requirements in the periods of rapid growth, especially in the first 5 years of life.http://www.who.int/elena/titles/iron_infants_malaria/en/

iron for proper development (controlled cell death)

Iron is the most important inducer of reactive oxygen species Role of reactive oxygen species (ROS) in apoptosis induction

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1009616228304

SB_UK
07-08-14, 04:34 AM
Ferritin iron uptake and releasehttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1168401/?page=1

Iron mobilization from ferritin by superoxidehttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC437068/

Suggestion - that iron is secondary to ROS - but supports ROS in 'good' (developmental, tolerance) apoptotic events.

wikiP/central tolerance
When immature B cells express surface IgM that recognizes ubiquitous self-cell-surface (i.e. multivalent) antigens (such as those of the MHC) they are eliminated by a process known as clonal deletion. These B cells are believed to undergo programmed cell death or apoptosis ... ...-*-

So - ROS enabled iron supporting cellular deletion.
Essential developmental process - essential for cellular housekeeping - however - under the wrong circumstances - can lead to problems ie chronic inflammation.

Wrong circumstances ?
Eating too much.

Fasting for three days can regenerate entire immune system, study finds (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10878625/Fasting-for-three-days-can-regenerate-entire-immune-system-study-finds.html)Must mean that the immune system (note this idea extends beyond the immune system - all cells of the body need to deleted when they go AWOL ie cell division control is lost) undergoes apoptosis (ie apoptosis is supported) under fasting.

-*-

The basic idea coming out here is that (controlled) death is essential for life - and sadly the human mind is programmed to growth which deactivates controlled death.
Growth - eating too much of the wrong foods - high GI carbs and fast mobilized protein -> anabolic hormones of IGF-1, Insulin and GH
-- associated with metabolic, immunological, neurological, cancerous disease.

-*-

Key factor - changing the human reward system from:
growth -> maintenance

ie from foods which stimulate growth (umami, salt, sweet) to foods which permit autophagy (not much food at all).

This transition occurs with wisdom ie the end of the growth phase - physical -> mental growth
- whereupon the door is unlocked to individuals having control over appetite and people are no longer under the control of the biological imperative to eat eat eat.

We need to realise that we're programmed to eat ourselves to a premature nasty death unless we escape our programming by completing the intended growth phase of body -> brain -> mind to wisdom.

-*-

oxygen [growth] -> <- [death] iron

Iron controls oxygen ?

(iron constipation - slows us down, iron binds oxygen controlling it in haemoglobin, iron levels drop in anoxia ... ... ...

SB_UK
07-08-14, 05:15 AM
Iron controls oxygen ?


And oxygen is resposible (pretty much) for human disease ie ROS and ageing (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23434764) [ageing correlates with all cause mortality].

A low all-cause mortality is equivalent to a long life expectancy. (http://sevencountriesstudy.com/study-findings/healthy-ageing/all-cause-mortality)

The most ancient of evolutionary patterns.

Exactly when the first life on Earth - the ancestors of modern bacteria - began is a subject of debate, but evidence suggests it could be as much as 3.5 billion years ago.
Early bacterial life introduced oxygen to the atmosphere. As the first free oxygen was released through photosynthesis by cyanobacteria, it was initially soaked up by iron dissolved in the oceans and formed red coloured iron oxide, which settled to the ocean floor. Over time, distinctive sedimentary rocks called banded iron formations were created by these iron oxide deposits. Once the iron in the oceans was used up, the iron oxide stopped being deposited and oxygen was able to start building up in the atmosphere about 2.4 billion years ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/earth/earth_timeline/first_life

SB_UK
07-08-14, 05:21 AM
What's the general point ?

We need to eat less and less and less as we grow older (from birth).

Healthy ageing in a nutshell.

Soooooooooooooo easy.

mildadhd
07-09-14, 04:49 PM
I agree about avoiding iron deficiency, with proper nutrition.

Also I wonder even if nutritional needs are met, could developmental impairment due to exposure to uninttentional prenatal/early life distress, result in low brain iron, (especially during the critical period of development)

Malnutrition and/or Distress may both cause low brain iron damage?


P

Amtram
07-09-14, 05:43 PM
Nutrition is not going to change this. This is a biomarker, not an indication of low iron levels. *sigh*

mildadhd
07-09-14, 08:31 PM
Nutrition is not going to change this. This is a biomarker, not an indication of low iron levels. *sigh*



From what I understand early iron deficiency, and/or, distress during the neonatal period of development (give or take), may result in abnormal brain iron levels.

The Impact of Undernutrition in Early Life on Brain Development (http://cdn.livestream.com/events/unicef1/2_Georgieff_Session2_Brain%20Development.pdf)


P

JJJJJJJJJJ
09-25-14, 02:58 PM
Kind of a small study, but interesting though. I really hope they validate this on more test-subjects.

I also wonder what it means for the brain and for the body: why do ADHD-ers have lower brain levels of iron if the iron in the blood is normal?

Iron is required for AAAH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopterin-dependent_aromatic_amino_acid_hydroxylase), the rate limiting enzyme involved in production of catecholamine brain chemicals, including dopamine, norepinephrine(noradrenaline), etc.

Of course iron is also a heavy metal, and so is dangerous when in excess.

In some situations we don't absorb iron as a protective measure. I imagine oxidative stress from heavy metals such as lead, cadmium and mercury one type of the inflamation mentioned here. (http://www.wellnessresources.com/weight/articles/stunning_discoveries_regarding_iron_obesity_candid a_thyroid/)

Lead is associated with ADD. I am an example of it : ( Maybe this is one of the underlying causes of ADD and the low iron is just one of the consequences of oxidative stress from the toxin.

Going back almost 15 yrs I noticed that I just felt better when taking a mulit vitamin that contained 100% USRDA iron than when I took one containing a small amount of iron. My functional medicine doctor was disturbed that I had been taking so much for almost a decade and he ordered tests of iron and ferritin. They were in the center third of the normal range but on the high side of normal. Recent followup blood tests reported the same.

I take modest amounts of antioxidants including lipid soluble ones--Vit E, etc.

orangello
09-28-14, 09:27 PM
Might as well reply to this since I linked to it in another thread.

Just to reiterate, ADHD is largely a function of inadequate dopamine levels in certain parts of the brain. Last summer when the news of this iron-level biomarker came out, the discussion on other forums was that the brain iron levels may be lower because the brain is working harder to compensate for the lack of dopamine (or in some way the lack of dopamine is causing the brain to deplete iron)