I am not totally comfortable writting this. (last time I posted I got burned by people that didn't know the entire story & I was partially to blame for not putting it out there the way it was and leaving thoughts to sceptics-oh well-live and learn)
Anywho. I have read things on this board and there have been somethings that make me realize that we all have the same problems and we all have different solutions.
I think that in some way we are all "victims." To ourselves and by others. (I know I'm gonna catch heck for saying that...but recent events have made me look hard at my life and the things that have brought me to where I am now...)
Somone posted that they felt like a "dingy out in the ocean all by myself." I can't agree more. Often, I find that I make changes in my life that work and are very good for me...and bring me to a place where I don't feel broken anymore...then I feel as though things are "all better" and back slide. So, to use the water and ocean as an example...I get to the point where I feel like I'm on the top of the water slide and then after feeling "all better" I slip and go crashing into the waves. That's were I'm at right now.
Now looking at my life I've been the victim. Now I know this is strange...but I have been a victim...I was abused as a child...I was also in an abusive relationship in my 20's. Now I'm in a loving relationship-that has its ups and downs...and I've done everything to sabatoge this relationship. Luckily, I have a man that works with me to grow. Right now I have crashed into those waves...I know what works for me ...what makes me whole again...I just need to get there
So, here is my question...how do we not crash into the waves? How do we take care of and love ourselves and not worry about those around us? Does that make sense? We say that we make love our first priority...but shouldn't we be making ourselves first. Someone said that before I can love you I have to love myself...is their truth to it? How do we put ourselves first?
So, help me on my quest to get me back on my path of healthy living. How do we keep on our healthy path and not go crashing into the waves again?

I think you are correct about being victims, in a sense. You had no control over being abused as a child, you were a victim. In the begining, you had no choice over the abusive relationship you were in. You were a victim. But you made a choice and ended the relationship. If you were still in that relationship and knew it was abusive, then I would say you wouldn't have a right to say you were a victim. To use the term victim you would have to be "unknowing".

I think a lot of people with ADHD can be victims. This could be related to the very common ADHD characteristic of not being able to pick up on social cues.

People with ADHD have a very low self-image of themselves. They are constantly cutting themselves down and beating themselves up. This can overflow into their relationships in the form of critical and hurtful remarks. These remarks may not be percieved as harmful by the person saying them, but extremely hurtful to the person receiving them.

Tim,
I have to point out that when you are in an abusive relationship, and you know it, getting out isnt the main concern. Getting out alive is. Once an abuser shows his true colors, and starts betting you, the also start to threaten your life, the lives of loved ones....and so on. It isnt as easy to say enough, and just get out as one would think. You are still a victim when you know he's and abuser and stay. If there are children involved, it creates even more fear.

Anywho
I think you are correct about being victims, in a sense. You had no control over being abused as a child, you were a victim. In the begining, you had no choice over the abusive relationship you were in. You were a victim. But you made a choice and ended the relationship. If you were still in that relationship and knew it was abusive, then I would say you wouldn't have a right to say you were a victim. To use the term victim you would have to be "unknowing".


I think a lot of people with ADHD can be victims. This could be related to the very common ADHD characteristic of not being able to pick up on social cues.

People with ADHD have a very low self-image of themselves. They are constantly cutting themselves down and beating themselves up. This can overflow into their relationships in the form of critical and hurtful remarks. These remarks may not be percieved as harmful by the person saying them, but extremely hurtful to the person receiving them.
But you make some interesting points Tim.

My solution, is to go with it. Life is a series of bumps and crashes, and smooth sailing. Let the waves washover you, learn that you cant control them....and just let go. Then raise your sail, and float away.....

I am not sure if this analogy made any sense.....but its out there.

How do you let go? That seems to be where I get stumped...
I liked your annology with letting the waves wash over me...Here is my plan...
1. Start yoga again
2. Start keeping a log of the things that I do well...
3. Start taking time for me...
4. Eating better
5. after knee surgery-work out (again taking time for me)
6. Remember to date-its important for BF and I to date-even if it is just for a movie and stuff...

As for my abusive relationship...I got out of that-but there was one thing that I held onto and that was his cell number on an old email address that I had. Well, today I got rid of it. I hit delete and after I get a photo off of there that I want...I will close the account. Time to leave that behind.

I know that I (and I think we as add-ers) need something...maybe a spot on this board...Where it is just for accomplishments. Nothing else. And nothing else then positive comments from the rest of us. -Any thoughts?

Low self esteem makes getting over the past even harder in my honest opinion. I had the hardest time getting over my childhood, my abusive relationship as a teen and my own self abuse issue's. If I wanted something badly I would self destruct taking any chance of success away from myself.

So, I started with building my self esteem and learning to love myself, getting to know my self worth. I started volunteering as a rape advocate at the college near us. Got involved in my community, reading to kids at the school, helping with play ground patrol, fund raisers for the school, fire department, sherrifs office, clean up efforts after tornado's ripped thru towns near ours, advocating for my own children, donating needed items to the Rainbow house in which we stayed during our daughter's six months in Children's hospital. It doesn't have to be big, it doesn't have to be grand but hearing "thank you", "I appreciate you" seeing someone smile is definatly a good start.

Get involved. Make someone's day.

Wow you have done some amazing things!
When I look at my life and the things that I do..I volunteer my time once a month with a group of kids in our city schools. I also work with my company's Explorer Post. I also, in the summer volunteer at a ropes course.
There are many people in my life that have had a positive influence on me...
I guess this most important thing is that I find self love now. I have that when I practice yoga on a regular basis...There is something about that...I wish I could explain. There is something about the practice that is amazing..
but I guess that leaves me with the question...
When you find what works-how do you keep up on it?
What I mean is when I get into something-I only do if for awhile and then I stop...how do I keep motivated to continue???

I'm unsure what your asking. If its something that makes you feel good then you should want to do it all the time. Right? I'm lost share your map.

I haven't done anything amazing I wanted to follow in the footsteps of Mother Teresa as a young child...NOW there was an amazing woman!!! I just do things, when someone needs help if it involves hard work and actively creative mind...I'm they're girl. lol Sounds like you touch some pretty important lives as well. I don't think its about changing the world but about touching one life that will go on to touch another and another...does that make sense...sorry posting sick with a 102 temp.

I was just having a conversation with my husband about something similar. First off I am ADD and bipolar so my life has been highs, lows and very little "calm seas". I love my meds, things are wavy, but no tsunamis.

Surrounding yourself with a support group of people who truly care and accept you is essential. In with the good, out with the bad. That starts the motor running to a better self-esteem and confidence. And here's a thought, I'm no good to anyone else if I'm not taking care of me. My husband insisted that I get help (this is after I had 3 children) because I would crash twice a week and wasn't accomplishing much. My family was at the mercy of my extreme emotions. It wasn't fair to them, or myself.

This forum has been a tremendous help to me. I keep a journal here to track my emotions and how my self-esteem is doing and its been nice seeing the progress. Slow going, but it's progress. No one responds to it, but every so often someone pm's me with something encouraging from it or a virtual hug when it's a lousy post.

That was all a bunny trail. On the course of your comments, are we a victim?, I slide into that role very easily with my Dad. I wasn't physically abused, but I'd say it was most definitely emotional and verbal. I've always wanted to please him, but I don't feel like I can be myself around him. I don't like the way I feel when I'm with him. I'll step away from the anger of the past and remember how much I love him. Then when I start talking to him I slide right into the little girl role. I feel guilty for not staying in touch better, for not giving him the relationship with his daughter and grandchildren that he wants. It's my failing and shortcoming. But it's not. It's a two-way street. My mother-in-law didn't ask to fill the role of "Grammy", she just did it. She made the effort and so did we. He hasn't. I also caught him ogling me once (that I can remember off hand). When we're face to face I want to hide under the baggiest clothes. I have to psych myself up for our conversations. It's difficult to not slide into old/bad habits and be manipulated by him, feel guilty, feel I'm always wrong...where did all the confidence go that I've been slowly building up these last few years? It's a conscious effort to be in control of myself and our relationship instead of him. He's something else. And when all is said and done I end up feeling stupid for being so easily manipulated. The cycle starts all over again.

We really do have to unlearn bad habits and apply better ones. To do so is to say the past is what it was and I can't fix it. But I can work with the present. I don't have to be victim, I give no one permission to victimize me. It's only easy to type that. I don't apply it so easily.

Nucking Futs:
What am I asking...How does one stay motivated? I have this habit...I find something I like and really put my heart and soul into it...I get everything I need and for about 6 months or so I am religious about doing it...Then, I do it just a little less then what I was then I will maybe go...then oh why bother...I always find excuses. Yoga was one thing that I could do that would connect me to myself. How do I break the cycle? How do I stay motivated to keep doing things that I love and not get lazy about it? That was what I was asking.

I also agree with you that you can't changed the world...but touching peoples lives is what matters.

EYEFORGOT:
It seems like we are in the same boat...my BF puts up with more than his fair share of roller coasters.
As for being a victim...I was abused by my fathers father. I'm slowly shedding that away...and it is hard...but I take a lot of my anger out on bf-or at least I used to until we tackled that demon. Now I take out my insecurity on him...and I dont know how to get that to stop....he says that I have to love myself first and take care of me...no one else. He also say s that I have to learn how to carry my own baggage and not expect him to- Which makes sense. but I have this habit...in every other relationship that I was in I have driven the other person away-better to drive them away then be the one to leave...I dont know screwed up view I guess.
I also keep a journal and am learning how to keep it as needed.
So, my question to you is how do you keep from taking your anger and insecurity out on your husband?

Adventureguru
Do you enjoy calling people who are trying to help you names? And next time you call a nucking at least get the spelling right. Check with your doc about getting a angry management class. Otherwise, try meds.

I think you misunderstood...Nucking_Futs is a member's name.

That's a good question adventureguru! I used to do the same things to my husband. Take out insecurities on him. (Among other things) Part of my problem was to give up drinking. I realized that when I drank, I got combative, usually for no good reason. The last time we had an episode like that, I threatened divorce. The next morning I could have cut my right arm off I was so angry at myself. And he was angry too, and hurt. For the first time, I saw how much I was hurting him. It broke my heart. It was then that I realized I needed to change something. Yes, I quit drinking, but I also payed more attention to how I treated him. Everyday. I think to myself that he treats me well, he respects me, so I decided to finally treat him as well as he treats me. Better even.

I dont know if this helped, but it's out there for ya!

Andrew: Thank you for explaining that "Nucking Futs" is someone's screen name.

Crazymama: Give me a minute and I will get back to you...but thanks for making me feel like I'm not alone.

Glad to help guru! Anytime you need anything, get in touch with me. I am hear for ya.

This is why I love this forum, it is such a learning experience on such a large scale. Everyone here to help each other. That in and of itself is remarkable and comforting.

Adventureguru
Do you enjoy calling people who are trying to help you names? And next time you call a nucking at least get the spelling right. Check with your doc about getting a angry management class. Otherwise, try meds.

HI!!! Let me introduce myself lol I'm Cherity but most people here call me

Nucking_Futs or Futs.

As I'm sure your well aware guru was not poking fun nor being disrespectful; but, I do appreciate your coming to my defense. As a new member I'm sure you haven't had the chance to notice a lot of our forum names are a play on words and can be confusing so I can see how the mishap happened.

Cherity

You're right I did misunderstand and I apologize to adventureguru. I never pay attention to the screen name, but to the pictures that are near them. Guess I'll start paying alittle more attention. Guru I am sorry. I use to High and Middle school and think it has left an effect on me.

Johna-appology accepted.

That's a good question adventureguru! I used to do the same things to my husband. Take out insecurities on him. (Among other things) Part of my problem was to give up drinking. I realized that when I drank, I got combative, usually for no good reason. The last time we had an episode like that, I threatened divorce. The next morning I could have cut my right arm off I was so angry at myself. And he was angry too, and hurt. For the first time, I saw how much I was hurting him. It broke my heart. It was then that I realized I needed to change something. Yes, I quit drinking, but I also payed more attention to how I treated him. Everyday. I think to myself that he treats me well, he respects me, so I decided to finally treat him as well as he treats me. Better even.

I dont know if this helped, but it's out there for ya!

um ok everytime i type something i keep loosing it...
short of the long...talked to bf last night and agree i have security issues...but i also asked that if the girl that i have issues with-if her her husband and us could go out for dinner or something that would be great. he said he didnt know. which is usually his response when he will eventually say yes and that he doesnt want to get my hopes up...i have this great way of when someone says "yes" to something that I take off with it...like make plans that second-know what i mean.
I think this is going to end us back in the therapist office. which is ok...less threatening that way...for me anyway and I am sure for him too...I like the plan of treating him as well as he treats you...that works for me and I will keep that in mind...however-how do you keep your tone of voice and those little things that your "inside voice" says as an "outward voice"...my inside voice usually gets loud and mean with out me even knowing it...How do I handle that? Someone told me once to make every word count...but sometimes that "every word" comes out sarcasically...and hurts other people...How do I keep that in check?
I'm gonna post this before i loose it again...more later!

EYEFORGOT:
It seems like we are in the same boat...my BF puts up with more than his fair share of roller coasters.
As for being a victim...I was abused by my fathers father. I'm slowly shedding that away...and it is hard...but I take a lot of my anger out on bf-or at least I used to until we tackled that demon. Now I take out my insecurity on him...and I dont know how to get that to stop....he says that I have to love myself first and take care of me...no one else. He also say s that I have to learn how to carry my own baggage and not expect him to- Which makes sense. but I have this habit...in every other relationship that I was in I have driven the other person away-better to drive them away then be the one to leave...I dont know screwed up view I guess.
I also keep a journal and am learning how to keep it as needed.
So, my question to you is how do you keep from taking your anger and insecurity out on your husband?

For the longest time my husband said I took out my anger at my Dad and my insecurities on him. We were even on the insecurities. He took out his insecurities on me. We went to our own psychiatrists and therapists and that helped in that area.

I take out my anger on Mike because I can. Because it's safe. Because I am secure in his love for me and feel I can get away with it. Our loved ones really get the worst of us. They don't have much choice in the matter. I just tried to recognize the thought patterns and talk it out more calmly. It tapered off over time and every so often we both slip into it. But we catch it and try again. Have your b/f give you a heads up at the beginning of your conversation, not that he won't listen to you, but maybe snap you back into reality and being reasonable.

Before Mike got help for his depression he would bounce everything off of me. I finally told him that I care deeply for him but I can't help him the way I want to. I'm happy to listen to him but it's like he has cancer and wants me to fix it...I'm not qualified. He needed to see a professional. That clicked for him. He went to a shrink and the meds helped him. Then he worked his butt off at his job and the sense of accomplishment helped his self esteem a lot.

I, too, struggle with motivation issues. Straterra helped me but I always say it just got me to the starting line and I have to do the rest. So, I checked out from the library "Attention Deficit Disorders in Adults" by Dr. Lynn Weiss. (I've had it out of the library about 2 to 3 months, I keep renewing it. I should just buy it on half.com) Anyways, the advice and tips in there are for ADDers and their families/loved ones. For me it is a matter of sometimes just kicking myself in the butt, and most times an issue of confidence. I get intimidated, I procrastinate, I avoid, I fail, I feel lousy about myself and it goes round and round. I have to keep telling myself that I'm capable. Sometimes I have to try things with someone practically holding my hand but then I feel capable and that helps me keep doing it.

I, too, struggle with motivation issues. Straterra helped me but I always say it just got me to the starting line and I have to do the rest. So, I checked out from the library "Attention Deficit Disorders in Adults" by Dr. Lynn Weiss. (I've had it out of the library about 2 to 3 months, I keep renewing it. I should just buy it on half.com) Anyways, the advice and tips in there are for ADDers and their families/loved ones. For me it is a matter of sometimes just kicking myself in the butt, and most times an issue of confidence. I get intimidated, I procrastinate, I avoid, I fail, I feel lousy about myself and it goes round and round. I have to keep telling myself that I'm capable. Sometimes I have to try things with someone practically holding my hand but then I feel capable and that helps me keep doing it.

How do you like the Stratarra? I am on 40mg of Ritalin a day...but have gotten very non-compliant (which is part of my problem)...I have to talk to my MD and see about changing to time release and taking it less often. Right now I am relying on my memory to take meds...no goood.

I too have the same cycle...I do really well...then fall on my ars. So, how do we stay out of that cycle? How do we beat the demon in ourselve?

I feel the best when I work out, eat well and have dates with BF...BF got hurt at work and now we see each other 7 days a week...dont get me wrong I love him with all my heart...but when I dont have me time...I get ****y...and we get complacent with each other...and don't "date" and b/c he broke his collar bone...well you get the picture...
He just got promoted and that brings on a whole new line of stressors. It will take a bit to get used to...We will see.

I know i can do the thing that make me ME. The happy me that enjoys things in life...that right now I dont see. So, I will start my quest on Monday-yoga 930 am...and go from there.
Unfortunately, I am having knee surgery in 2 weeks. (plan on seeing me here more often) So, my work out will be PT...but its time to get off my bum!

I like straterra and I take lamictal at night for the bipolar. The only side effects I had were some dry mouth (but nothing too bad), nausea that was fixed by eating a good breakfast or lots of milk and a tiny decrease in my drive (which is like going to a lake, taking out a glass of water and saying the water level is lower i.e. no big deal)

The way I remember my meds in the morning (and believe me I almost forget almost regularly) is I take it when I give my 4 yo his asthma med. If I don't remember he does. If I forget then I'm crashing big time by 1 pm so I'll take just one with lunch. At night I'm usually settled into bed with a good book, read two paragraphs and a lightbulb goes off 'oh shoot, I need to take my lamictal and cal-mag'. So up I go and downstairs and get the milk and blah blah finally settle in for the night. And of course I have to pee one more time after having some milk before I officially turn off the light and go to sleep.

So basically all you know now is that you're not alone and the trick is to remember your meds in such a way that works for you. I have suggested tattoos before. Right on the forehead. :)

Those were all excellent posts.

This thread touches on a sensitive issue that I believe the "general public" can't really fathom . We have an "invisible disorder" that creates impairments/delays throughtout our lives. Depending on when you were diagnosed and how successful the treatment(s) were, as well as the nature (supportive vs unsupportive) of the various environments (home/school/social) in your lives, the "normal" developmental issues of low self-esteem associated with childhood & adolescense become magnified .As a result, the negative impact is much more profound. If you add on any common comorbid conditions, the impact is even greater.

The only thing I can tell you personally, is that somewhere along the way I went from shy, anxious and depressed, to assertive and outgoing. It sorta happened I guess but it took a very long time.

The main thing I'd like to say though is that I continually push myself try to do a better job in all areas of my life by competing with myself. That can range anywhere from the quality of my work,to weightlifting, to trying to listen better to my wife 's feedback. I have a long way to go but I work on it everyday;one day at a time.Being in recovery has seen to that.


Thank you again for this timely discussion.:)

And this, Ladies and Gentlemen, is why I am thankful that places like this exist ... even if it is only on the internet. This place has given so much to me alone, that I could never repay each endearing soul that has helped me learn, live, and grow.

I never had this kind of support out in the life I live, heck - I didn't even know that there were so many people that actually knew what I was going through.

I deal with my highs and lows much better now ... but it has been a long path. I hope that everyone finds their place in this habitat we call our home.

Much love to you all, and my deepest thanks,

Ane

Ane I love your avitar! I also love the tag line that you have...
mctavish-I think competing with yourself is a great idea...I never thought of it that way...instead of competing with everyone else...know what I mean? And you are right the general public can not fathom what goes on in our lives.

adventurguru,

It wasnt to say that we still dont fight, we do. We just do it repsectfully. I do not like to be called names in anger, so I refrain from doing do when addressing him. I call it fighting fair.

I do have moments of misdirected anger, but I always tell him I am angry, or crabby and I dont know why, so he just hugs me, even when I am spewing out garbage. He knows I am venting and just holds me and lets me go for it. It really helps to calm me down quickly.

The first few years were hard. A lot of trial and error. But I learned that if I am specific about what I need from him, it makes it easier for him to be able to give it to me. And visa-versa. We just tell each other what we need.

Now it is automatic most of the time.

I know what you mean about jumping the gun on planning. Its hard to control, but it can be done. Recognition and patience go along way to helping control this behaviour.

I dont know if this helped at all. I hope you found something in it useful.:D

I think that I grew up a victim of a world that did not understand me. And somedays I have a little anger over it... But I think the most important thing for me right now is learning to love me. That I need to really make it a part of my soul that having ADD does not make me a failure. And I guess that will be an ongoing battle. I am so greatful that I have found a place like this.... where I can read the post and feel like I am not out of step with the world... just in step with a more creative sometime scatter brained people like myself.

I think that I grew up a victim of a world that did not understand me. And somedays I have a little anger over it... But I think the most important thing for me right now is learning to love me. That I need to really make it a part of my soul that having ADD does not make me a failure. And I guess that will be an ongoing battle. I am so greatful that I have found a place like this.... where I can read the post and feel like I am not out of step with the world... just in step with a more creative sometime scatter brained people like myself.
"any day on the right side of the grass is a good day"

What am I asking...How does one stay motivated? I have this habit...I find something I like and really put my heart and soul into it...I get everything I need and for about 6 months or so I am religious about doing it...Then, I do it just a little less then what I was then I will maybe go...then oh why bother...I always find excuses. Yoga was one thing that I could do that would connect me to myself. How do I break the cycle? How do I stay motivated to keep doing things that I love and not get lazy about it? That was what I was asking.I think this is pretty common for ADDers due to difficulties with follow through and perhaps also just becoming bored with doing the same thing over & over again. If you can find a few things that work for you (ex. yoga, painting, dancing), maybe you could try cycling through them so when you notice you are starting to slack off on yoga, then start doing some other activity that works for you. Or maybe cycle through all of them at once, so that you are not doing the same thing day after day.

Having said all this, I can't tell you if it really will work or not. I've got the same problem as you, although I haven't really discovered many beneficial activities for myself. I've been debating trying yoga. Do you have any recommendations on how to choose a good yoga place, or do you just do yoga on your own? I don't know anything about yoga so I'd need to find a place that teaches yoga.

Yoga is amazing! I go to a studio. The trick is to find an instructor that works with you. There is some "stuff" you "buy into" (ex there thoughts and ways of life) one of the things that I love about my instructors is that they tell you to take what you need and leave the rest on your mat. I would definately find a studio b/c if you are in a posture incorrectly you can injure yourself AND/OR not get the benefits of the posture. It is great for me and really helps on consentration. I think it is definately worth it!

MrsNurse...I agree-I'm in the same boat you are...I'm learning to love me too! *hugs*