View Full Version : Violent Meltdown :(


Rainbows
07-18-14, 11:35 AM
We were out waiting on a prescription for my grandfather which took over an hour.. during the hour my son was bouncing around walking in and out, climbing on the chair and started cussing" these da&* people should hurry up" Im bored" what is she looking at stupid women" "If they don't hurry up I'm going to rip up the ticket ( number they give you to be called) and start breaking chairs". On the way out I said I need to get his pills but I cant wait for the prescription with him( that takes up to an hour) waiting just to pick up the Drs prescription and my dad got upset at me ( my son has to have the meds he is so much worse off of them.. he wouldn't take them now we are trying to get the Vyvanse patch) my son blew told my dad" shutup" got in the car, pulled off and went to get a drink on the way home but at he drive through he demanded food and started screaming let him order it talking over my dad letting , they both started yelling, dad drove home and son is now threatening to kill me if I dont give him the phone so he can call my dad to get fast food. Slamming doors, screaming top of his lungs, throwing things around... Oh the joy days are back again.

I thought he was doing better but off meds he is sooo much worse. I mentioned that in my thread before. Sorry I havent responded yet, its been hectic, I got hurt, been taking care of Grandfather and my kids and my dad, and looking for a job!

I cant go anywhere with my son he is rude, bad etc etc. My grandfather says my son wants to be this way on purpose but according to Dr he does of ADHD/Sleep issues and ODD. Working on more testing. I pray my son doesnt want to act this way...

some days my son can be such an angel, its like a whole other child....

LynneC
07-25-14, 06:38 AM
Big hug to you...you have a lot on your plate right now... :grouphug:

How old is your son? Your son son doesn't want to act this way, but I'm sure that 'in the moment' it feels like he does.

Have you had a chance to read through the essays in 'Dizfriz's Corner'? There are techniques there that may help you with your son's behavior. Read them when you have a chance and I'm sure you will find some helpful info....

The meds can only go so far; a large part of helping a child with ADHD is working on behavior management techiniques that will help him to control his impulsive, angry behavior.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60130

Tmoney
07-25-14, 08:16 AM
I'm sorry you are going through this difficult time right now. Yes the right medication and keeping your son on them will help, but some of the behaviors you described are serious and may need to be addressed with a professional. How old is your son?

RobboW
07-25-14, 09:26 AM
Wow, you really have your hands full!

This is only a very pale parrallel, but:

My youngest daughter was a tiny little like that, nowhere near as extreme, just it gave me a sense of how she used to be. She hates authority when she's not in the mood and at home, if things don't go her way, can explode. Other times she's happy and even a bit bubbly, exciteable and a little bit hyper. She is impatient. The bad behaviour was seemingly like when she was out of her comfort zone, had no control over her situation and had to lash out in some manner to express it. She occasionally did it out in public and was rude to a doctor once.

At home she is always busy with introverted crafty activities and has quite an imagination, but turns from happy to angry instantly if something upsets her. I've wondered about bipolar with her, but maybe just that she has really bad emotional deregulation along with ADHD?

She seems really Jekyl and Hyde without too much between. Crowds and public places really bothered her, as did strangers. She is slowly improving and oddly, has mostly been ok at school and actually does quite well.

I think she craves attention but seeks it no matter how and at what cost and is the youngest of four children so last in the line. A recipe for frustration.

I got really fed up with her lashing out as she was and she was frequently in trouble. I had to send her to her room just to get her away from the rest of the family so she would cool down. Now, she takes herself away automatically and will come back later when calm. I also take myself away when angered and that is something my wife has not yet learnt as she likes to argue once roused and won't stop and give me space to regulate myself.

I'm starting to wonder if meds with younger children may be a bad thing because once off them, they have no learnt coping mechanisms. Young children do, say and react, they don't think much about consequence or have a developed social sense. I'm thinking into my keyboard right now, not having explored this before, but curious how old your son is and how long he has been medicated?

I hope you can get some answers and help from professionals and some insight from more experienced members here. Good luck and all the best.

zette93
07-25-14, 09:28 AM
I have been there -- my son was so violent that 11 parents in his 1st grade class staged a two-day boycott to get him out. :(

The key at this age is to accommodate, accommodate, accommodate, and add a large dose of prevention. You have to reduce his stress level and get him to a place of being mostly calm most of the time before you can make much progress in learning to deal with the "real world".

If he can't deal with waiting at the pharmacy, you don't do it. The moment you start to see him spinning up, leave and make arrangements to come back later, preferably without him.

Spend a week writing down what situations set him off, what expectations he isn't meeting (for example won't get dressed when told to do so), what locations seem to bug him (pharmacy), and what happened just before he gets into trouble (for example sibling changed the TV channel). Your focus is not on his response (violent fit), but figuring out what set the stage and led up to him blowing up.

You really have to be a detective to figure out what is behind each of the blowups individually --- and there are probably many different causes. Do certain things increase his anxiety? Are there sensory things that drive him nuts? Is he lacking skills to do things you are requesting (for example my son couldn't stay on task long enough to get dressed). Does the way you word certain requests set him off?

It may be that you stop taking him on errands for awhile, and you let him have way more screen time than he should (if he finds it calming). Prevent as much as you can by reducing the demands on him and his exposure to environments where he spins up. When you've reduced the demands and environmental stresses to the point that you're not dealing with constant explosions, then you can start teaching skills and learning to handle things like shopping and waiting (initially in very small doses.)

Watch the parent tour videos on the LivesInTheBalance website for more ideas about this approach.

You might also consider having him tested for Aspergers -- the gold standard is called the ADOS (autism diagnostic observation schedule) and have a speech therapist test him for pragmatic language issues. Also complete a Sensory Profile to identify sensory stresses that bug him (an OT who specializes in sensory integration might be helpful.)

For my son, the thing that made the biggest difference was getting him out of public school and into a program specifically for kids with Aspergers. Once he was no longer stressed out all day at school, life at home became much easier. We still have the occasional verbal outburst, but nothing like the half hour physical meltdowns we used to see.

RobboW
07-25-14, 09:31 AM
Good call, maybe Aspergers or including a comorbid condition.

Dizfriz
07-25-14, 06:25 PM
Something that can help at least some of the time is what I call the game boy solution.

Get an age appropriate hand held game console. Have games that are only for situations like these and to be used no other time. The idea is to have something with you to keep him busy.

For most kids especially ADHD kids an hour is *forever*. They will become restless and if they have you in a good place like a doctors office or store, start to act out just to stir things up.

The principle is to plan ahead, have plans in place to handle different situations and be ready to act instantly when it starts. Discuss this with your child. It is called "Think ahead, think aloud"-go over the rules and consequences before you leave and again, *always* have something for the kid to do.

Take care, you will get there.

Dizfriz

LynneC
07-26-14, 06:06 AM
I'm starting to wonder if meds with younger children may be a bad thing because once off them, they have no learnt coping mechanisms. Young children do, say and react, they don't think much about consequence or have a developed social sense.
The thing is, with many kids with ADHD and other issues (comorbids), without medication it may be much more difficult for them to learn and implement those skills...

someothertime
07-26-14, 07:59 AM
throw every single idea of traditional parenting you have out the window
develop a new persona that is based on regulation...
brainstorm new ways of gaining space for him and you
get him the outlets that will allow him to express + determine with consequence
find out if there are serious underlying cognition / biological / environmental contributors
never forget to love

the first one is what makes it doable..... be firm, be consistent..... be happy.

zette93
07-26-14, 09:01 AM
I'm starting to wonder if meds with younger children may be a bad thing because once off them, they have no learnt coping mechanisms. Young children do, say and react, they don't think much about consequence or have a developed social sense. The thing is, with many kids with ADHD and other issues (comorbids), without medication it may be much more difficult for them to learn and implement those skills...

My experience agrees with LynneC -- without meds my son was not regulated enough to learn any coping skills, with meds and a supportive environment he is gaining coping skills even in areas we are not actively working on.

Rainbows
07-26-14, 03:03 PM
LynneC and Tmoney- Thanks and he is 8 years old and I know he needs more testing and counseling. I will read those essays as well.

RobboW- You have had your hands full as well but you also taught her something by sending her to her room to calm down and Im glad she does this on her own. Isnt it something how overall they can hold it all in at school and when they are home or other places "boom"!! Is your daughter on meds and what type of counselor if you have one? Yes, my son is on meds since 2nd grade=7 years old he started Clonidine 0.1 mg ( sleep issues) and Adderall XR 5mg showed less violence, little improvement at school but not enough and dosage was changed to 10mg with even worse violence and tantrums. Then changed to Vyvanse 20mg with little improvement, less violence again, no side effects and better appitite ( I have heard the AdderallXr 5mg is same as vyvanse20mg idk) and was recently changed to 30mg but he did not take the new pill because he refused to swallow so it will be Daytona Patch10mg continuing Clonidine. I agree he needs techniques but he's so bad he has to have something to calm him before he will even sit and attempt to hear half of what is said with out raging or losing concentration. I think once he starts counseling we continue to give meds decreasing the amounts over time,while still in counseling. One day he will be just in counseling is my plan. Are you going to have her tested for Bi-Polar?

zette93- oh wow Im so sorry :( You and your son really had it bad. Im happy to hear he is doing much better now. How long did it take you to figure out what set him off? I will look at those videos thank you. Sometimes it seems as if almost everything at times sets my son off. Sometimes what sets him off once wont the next time but the time after it will. He gets bored after so many minutes on most days. He was never able to sit and watch his favorite cartoon, he would be doing other things meanwhile! While he has improved on less tantrums, less duration he still has a ways to go. ( His could last up to a few hours!! I kid you not- may I add very violent as well) Sometimes twice a day uggh was I wiped!!! He actually was in speech therapy for over 3 years straight. Im glad your sons tantrums are gone!

Dizfriz- He has taken the handhelds before, but not all the time. I will make sure they are charged and bring it every time and see how that goes!! I do need to have whats expected written down where they can see it daily. I had one up once, but, I will put it back up. Thanks :)

someothertime- your right, traditional parenting doesn't work. I have taken away playtime outside, and omg I will never do that again. I mean, I will still take away where he cant play with his friends, but my son has got to be outdoors even if hes just watering the lawn! Ok, I will try those techniques. I even asked my kids" How would you deal with you" They dont even know what to say!

zette93
07-30-14, 06:32 PM
zette93- oh wow Im so sorry :( You and your son really had it bad. Im happy to hear he is doing much better now. How long did it take you to figure out what set him off? I will look at those videos thank you. Sometimes it seems as if almost everything at times sets my son off. Sometimes what sets him off once wont the next time but the time after it will. He gets bored after so many minutes on most days. He was never able to sit and watch his favorite cartoon, he would be doing other things meanwhile! While he has improved on less tantrums, less duration he still has a ways to go. ( His could last up to a few hours!! I kid you not- may I add very violent as well) Sometimes twice a day uggh was I wiped!!! He actually was in speech therapy for over 3 years straight. Im glad your sons tantrums are gone!


Most of my son's tantrums were actually at school, not at home. I definitely don't have one of those kids who hold it in all day and then explode at home! There were a couple of occasions where what should've been a half hour tantrum was turned into a 3 hour tantrum, because they either didn't know how to calm him down or kept pushing on things like writing his last name on a paper, or the other kids left for music class and he wasn't allowed to join them because he was too upset.

For the first 3 months at his new school, we had to have a staff member come out to the car and walk him in. Often there were tears and tantrums and refusing to get out of the car to deal with. By 6 months he was walking in with the other kids without a backward glance, and was markedly happier and easier at home.

The school is actually in the offices of an ABA (applied behavioral analysis) therapy center. I asked DS once what was different about the aides there versus the aides in public school, and he said that instead of holding him down or taking him to another room, they "help solve the problem." The list of supports they have in place includes: small group (no more than 10), behavioral therapists, sensory calming items (bean bags, swings, mini-trampoline, therabands, t-stool, etc), instruction is alternated with "preferred-time" breaks, "behavior bucks" reward system, academics tailored to individual level, rooms set aside for calm-down, social skills lessons, group speech & OT, morning workout before class, and other things I'm forgetting.

With my son, I've found that if I can get to the bottom of what is setting him off, I can usually figure out or negotiate a solution that works for him and prevents the meltdown.

What ages was your son in speech therapy, and why? I ask because if it was more than just trouble pronouncing specific sounds (th, r, etc.) I would be surprised he hasn't been evaluated for an autism spectrum disorder such as Aspergers.

sarahsweets
07-31-14, 04:48 AM
I'm starting to wonder if meds with younger children may be a bad thing because once off them, they have no learnt coping mechanisms.

Meds are only part of a good treatment plan. Therapy with meds and helping a child learn coping methods is the best form of treatment. Alot of uninformed people think meds are a crutch and that a child sill rely on them and without meds they are a basket case but thats just not true. Meds open the door for a child to be able to learn to cope in an NT world and allows them the ability ti focus on learning those coping mechanisims. (I'm not saying you personally are uniformed btw)