View Full Version : Been 3.5 months clean off all ADHD meds THANK GOD


Nyseto
07-19-14, 07:16 PM
I had been prescribed all sorts of ADHD meds and they were a godsend especially combined with meditation. After I stopped taking them, I wound up in the psych ward for 3 weeks and it's taken me months to get over heart bursting anxiety and suicidal thoughts. I warn you all to NOT take this stuff at all!! I had 3 different psychiatrists in the hospital, they all told me I fried my brain with the meds and it will take time for my brain's dopamine receptors to up-regulate again. They put me on an antidep, bipolar med, and 2 anxiety meds to cope and I eventually stopped taking these too. It is poison, it will strip you of your ability to enjoy life and will give you depression, anxiety, and bipolar symptoms. These medications are only short term. All they do is increase your mindfulness and make you live more in the moment which translates into huge amounts of confidence. After a while it changes your brain chemistry and your left with a brain that forgot how to make its own confidence. ADHD is a real disorder but it is complete bs when it comes to being a disorder that needs to be treated with drugs. The cure to ADHD is very simple, MEDITATION. 100% behavioral therapy. People have ADHD due to low self-esteem/ego. It is having a low level of consciousness so if someone calls you stupid, you take it personally and that destroys your attention. All ADHD is, is a lack of awareness which is especially common in this day and age with our materialistic society.

Over time these meds wear off earlier and earlier and you will NEED to take more inevitably to curb the anxiety. At the peak of the meds, you're fine. You're wide awake, confident, but afterwards you get hit with anxiety and over time you begin to develop all-round anxiety and depression.

Stimulants are like forced meditation. They do the work for you to have a clear mind. However, what I found is that you can do the same with just meditation AND develop your awareness to the point where it's much higher than taking 3x the recommended dose (hypothetically). Your awareness is like a muscle. The more aware you are, the more enlightened you feel and of course after the stimulant wears off or you stop using all together, your awareness returns to a much worse state than it was originally before meds so now you really do have ADHD which indeed keeps you on the meds and further funds the pharmaceutical industry.

Right now after recovering and meditating for a while, I feel like I am on a constant small dose of vyvanse from day to day that's progressively getting bigger each month as my mind becomes more and more trained to be aware of the present. I am warning all of you, these meds will mess you up, none of you need them. You all need to work on reframing skills and change your perspective on how you see things so you boost your attention to paying attention naturally. ADHD is just another name for low self-esteem/not living in the present/low consciousness/high ego. Everybody has it, and everybody needs to work on it. It is life's path to self-actualization (inner freedom).

Just devote yourself to 20 minutes a day of doing nothing and just observing your mind/feelings and with time you will have that passion and confidence and much more than you had on meds.

Lunacie
07-19-14, 08:06 PM
I am really sorry that you had a bad experience with these meds,
but is far from the most common experience in taking stimulant meds for ADHD.

People have ADHD due to low self-esteem/ego.

I think you have this backwards.
For me, the ADHD which wasn't diagnosed until I was in my 50's was the cause of my low self-esteem.

I agree that meditation is helpful, but I disagree that medication is the evil you say it is.

Twiggy
07-19-14, 08:35 PM
Some people react badly to medications. I personally can't take them either due to my heart issue and anxiety of my heart issue getting worse.

MADD As A Hatte
07-19-14, 10:32 PM
Good on you, sport. I respect your choice to deal with your ADHD in whichever way you like, and of course you have the right to your own opinion.

However, you don't have the right to your own facts.

Much of what you have said in your original post (about the effects, and effectiveness, of stimulant medications) is incorrect and misleading. There are many well-considered posts in this forum which present a truer account of the beneficial effects of the responsible use of stimulant medications, in combination with non-medical behaviour management. (This combination is considered to be the "gold standard" for treating ADHD.)

Do please report back in a year, or a decade, and let us know how treating your ADHD with "100% meditation" works out.

.

mctavish23
07-19-14, 11:04 PM
Straterra (atomoxetine hcl) nearly killed me, due to an allergic reaction. Does that mean

ALL ADHD medications are "bad," as the OP would suggest ? Of course not. I've been on

countless different meds for ADHD-C Type & Major Depressive Disorder, Recurrent,

severe, over the last 25 years; consistently. Prior to that, following my initial diagnosis in

1972, I went from 9 F's in HS & (Undergrad) College, to Deans List in Grad School. With-

-out medication(s), I wouldn't have been able to perform my job for 30 years.


The bottom line is that this is an internet FORUM, in which everyone is welcome. Having

said that, there's no way to verify individual diagnoses. However, what CAN be verified

are the data on the positive impact of stimulant medications, in treating (authentic)

ADHD. The results are overwhelmingly positive; recognizing differences in individual brain

chemistries, and allergic reactions, etc.

Now, are there any evidence based (peer reviewed, research derived & supported) data

on "meditation," including Neurotherapy), as a permanemt replacement for medication ?

NO. Neurotherapy has shown some "promise" as an intervention, but years of additional

study are required before it reaches the level of "longitudinal validity & reliability," which

is the "gold standard" for ALL scientific research (i.e., Does the data measure what it

says it does, and can random strangers replicate the same experiment, and get the same

or similar results; repeatedly, over time).

Hope that helps.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

fedabog
07-20-14, 02:35 AM
First off, I am really sorry that you went through this ordeal. I am really happy that you were able to able to get through it and that you have found something that works.

I understand that what you went through has caused you to be very critical of ADHD medications. Honestly, I really can't blame you for hating the medications, because I would probably do the same.

With that said, I encourage you to really take some time to critically think and reprocess some of your statements. For instance, you make a point that ADHD is just a lack of self-confidence. Maybe this was the case for you, and perhaps this is the case for others. However, considering that ADHD, like all mental disorders, is a disease caused by chemical imbalances, I sincerely doubt your assertion is true for all. If it were true, then most of us would be cured simply by exercise, having sex, and listening to good music. The reality of the matter is that exercise, sex, music, getting a tattoo, or anything that "should" raise our needed chemicals, simply doesn't work. That is why there are medications that help restore that balance, especially with the help of the previously mentioned activities.

Also, realize that for a good number of us, meditation is simply something we cannot do. I have personally tried meditating dozens of times, trying every trick in the book to clear my head. I have no concept of a "clear mind". The first time I had a truly "clear mind" was the first time I had adderall.

The sad truth is that everybody reacts to medications differently, and that finding solutions to mental disorders is a process. Nothing is ever absolute in the field of medicine. The best we can do is trust our doctors, trust the science, and hope we find something that works for us.

I am glad that meditation and finding self-confidence was what worked for you.

sarahsweets
07-20-14, 04:40 AM
Knee jerk nonsense. Snake oil anyone?

MADD As A Hatte
07-20-14, 05:01 AM
Knee jerk nonsense. Snake oil anyone?

As an aside, I do like your new blonde look, Ms Sweets. Very striking.
.

Flory
07-20-14, 06:49 AM
As an aside, I do like your new blonde look, Ms Sweets. Very striking.
.

yeah miss sweets you are looking looooovely ^_^


i am sorry you had that reaction...and that experience sounds vile.

in people who dont have adhd but instead have another condition meds can actually cause a for of psychosis...
my dexamfetamine is contraindicated in tourettes, schizophrenia, bipolar etc etc etc.

got to remember the R's

meditation and shavasana actually give me anxiety......different strokes

1. Right individual
2. Right medication
3. Right dose
4. Right time
5. Right route
6. Right documentation

vpilar
07-20-14, 10:16 AM
Nyseto: Hi, Thanks for your post. Although I didn't agree with some parts of what you said, and the definite statements there like "ADHD is only based on low self esteem, etc" bother me, but I enjoyed reading it overall. It's useful to hear different experiences and opinions.... Thanks.

I personally think ideally one should not take medications for their ADHD in general. But at the moment I take them, since their benefits seem to be way more than their harms!

Maybe it sounds extreme, but let me tell you this: if with the help of Adderall, which I have been taking around 2 months now, I could finish my masters thesis (which has been taking me forever), submit a few papers, and get a phd admission from a good school, then that would be enough accomplishment for my life and I would be happy to even die from a heart attack due to medication!

If I don't die till then :), my plan is to stop taking medications completely! ... And for overcoming the symptoms go back to what I have been doing before the diagnostics, (which for me never was as easy as "only meditation", or some simple coping strategies. It was about accepting to have a whole different life style!

mctavish23
07-20-14, 01:20 PM
In addition to my earlier comments ...

Dating back to the 1700's, ADHD is THE most widely researched childhood disorder /

developmental disability on earth; NONE of which support low self-esteem as a causal

factor. In truth, it (low self-esteem) is an unavoidable outcome of being unable to

apply your natural talents & abilities toward the completion of "real world" tasks in a

timely manner; (compared to your same age / same gender, non-ADHD peers).

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

PandaPanda
07-20-14, 09:55 PM
To the OP, I'm sorry you had such a bad reaction to your adhd meds. I too have had a non-ideal reaction to coming off of meds, but it only lasted a few days and wasn't horribly severe. Even with the scary (to me) reaction, I would go back on Adderall in about 2 seconds if I could. It's no secret to me that while I'm on my meds I'm able to use coping skills to be "normal" and have a decent self esteem. The majority of my life has been off meds and it just hasn't been great. I have poor self esteem because I'm smart (not trying to be cocky, but I'm reasonably intelligent) but can't follow through and actually "live up to my potential". To me, Adderall is a total life changer.

Meditation is great if that's what works for you. It isn't so great for me. I've tried "it all" (from healthy to not) to not be medicated or when I can't obtain medication. I've done coaching, academic tutoring, counseling, depression meds, anxiety meds, smoking, drinking, exercise addiction, self starvation, yoga, meditation, support groups, working too much, etc. just to try to be "normal". Meh, sorry but it's just easier to take the meds, do coaching, and get up to speed with the rest of society.

Kewell35
07-27-14, 01:36 PM
I agree with you wholeheartedly.

What form of meditation do you practice?

Spektur
07-27-14, 02:47 PM
Well, maybe you have an anxiety or depression problem as opposed to ADD being the primary issue. Amphetamines also give me anxiety but I manage it, mostly by telling my brain to stfu and the invisible men to check back later, but I digress.

When I asked my doc about the anxiety and told her maybe I have anxiety, not ADD, she asked, "Do the meds give you anxiety right from the start or later in the day." Basically was I getting any positive effects or is it straight to anxiety. Not sure how true it is, she said if all you're getting is anxiety from them then you have an anxiety issue and the same goes for depression.

Otherwise it's simply a dosage issue. Finding the right dosage and meds is key to ward off anxiety and depression associated with amphetamines as a side effect, not a primary effect. Otherwise you needed a different med to treat anxiety and/or depression, or both types of medications for co morbid issues.

Stopping cold turkey and getting huge anxiety problems isn't an indicator of how bad a medication is for you, addictive, yes, bad, no. That would happen to anyone who quits cold turkey. Plus the withdrawal isn't truly horrible compared to like other insidious and highly controlled drugs like nicotine, oh wait, nicotine isn't highly controlled, never mind.

Amphetamines have far more pros than cons for cognitive skills, atleast for me anyways. Plus I meditate too to deal with the anxiety they give me, or rather the anxiety that the world I created around me gives me, mostly pertaining to seeds that have been sown and beds that have been made.

immago
07-28-14, 01:43 AM
While I agree with much of the responses to the original poster, I must confess that science-based meditation (i.e., slow breathing mind focusing exercises) provided some of the best ADD relief I had ever experienced before starting Adderall. In fact, I would venture to say that perhaps these focused breathing exercises were actually better than Adderall. It's sort of hard to say at this point (for various reasons).

The fact is, many studies have shown that meditative mind-focusing exercises promote dopamine production in the pre-frontal cortex, as well as increased Heart Rate Variability (HRV). HRV has been shown in several studies to correlate with increased focus, and self-retulation (control of the rest of the brain by the pre-frontal cortex where willful decisions are made). Several books have been written on the subject including a book released last year titled "The Willpower Instinct." The book discusses the importance of, among other things, brain-focusing breathing exercises (e.g., mediation/prayer), and physical exercise as the most productive physiological exercises for promoting willpower, or self-refulation (i.e., ability to control one's often instinctual 'hyper-activity' caused, in part, by a lower executive functioning).

I think that for some people focusing exercises, and physical exercise, will be enough to keep ADD symptoms at bay. Some, who I know personally, have relieved their symptoms through a gluten free diet.

On the other hand, some people require medication.

I think it's a shame that people rely entirely on medication, but to each their own.

One thing is for sure, Adderall makes me feel a sense of calm, and well-being, very much like I did when meditating.

Nyseto
08-28-14, 11:40 PM
This thread should probably be moved to the addiction forum but anyways...

Coming up on 5 months clean. Feeling even better. I find myself past the recovery phase and now onto the adjustment phase of fitting back into life. The depression and anxiety is virtually gone, it's just that I have lingering delusional thoughts as memories. I feel like even though I'm back to normal, I'm not used to it. I am a lot less in my head and putting more of myself "out there" like the meds made me do in the good old days. I have all this new found motivation again and now it's like I consciously reject it but the new dopamine is forcing me outside of my head. It's like it's dumbing me down in a good way where I am just "being" and not on the outside questioning everything...feeling more human.

I'm in the NAVY now, going to bootcamp in a few months, my life is coming together again. I don't think I ever had ADHD to begin with, I just needed basic core confidence, not drugs. I was hooked from the very first time I took an ADHD med, it slowed me down. I ended up with psychosis and depression during my first month's prescription of Vyvanse and then got switched to Strattera. I was on that about 3 months and during that time I recovered fully (within a month) and gained a lot of natural confidence. I don't think it was from the Strattera (doesn't work for many people), it was just the time off "prescription speed" replaced by Strattera. Unfortunately I was tempted to take 1 Vyvanse and then boom, I came running back to my psychiatrist saying that Strattera doesn't work. This time I ended up taking stimulants for 3 months instead of that 1st month prior. I blew through the prescriptions so fast that I had to find hook-ups to "stay normal". It was so bad that 70mg Vyvanse capsules weren't having an effect on me anymore like the first time. It was absolute insanity, I basically had a 3 month meth addiction. One thing that kept me taking it was "the ADHD disorder guilt" BELIEVING I had some mental illness which in actuality was caused by the drugs.

This stuff flows around campuses like cigarettes guys. This one guy was always selling Vyvanse, he was on 140mg long ago (I wonder how his life is now).

I don't know about girls and amphetamine, but to me as a guy, amphetamine was absolute pure gold the moments it worked. As a male, I've always been searching for "that invincible sense of well being", that "confidence" and amphetamine had it all. I can recreate the same benefits through meditation nowadays but god was it something else. It just kept me in the moment, it brought out the best of my personality. The sense of humor, the creativity, I ended up going out with 15+ girls, developing a facebook fan page, becoming widely known on campus as "that guy". Able to always think on my feat, having a lot of charisma, and inspiring people. The ADHD meds not only gave me straight confidence but I also learned how to be confident and not take anything personally. Right now I just have everything I learned on amphetamines before they took me down. Maybe to everyone out there taking ADHD meds, you're just supposed to learn how to live as if you were on adderall after stopping it. I don't think these meds are for long term use AT ALL. We have a very "heady" culture focusing too much on "trying to get there", achieving this, achieving that, and not so much on "just being you".

Stimulants just screw you up by forcing you "into the moment" and then after stopping you are "way out of the moment" and you started using them because you didn't know how to be "in the moment" in the first place (at least for me.)

Corina86
08-29-14, 03:59 AM
@Nyseto

I don't think you have ADHD either, but bipolar disorder and anxiety- different disorders which require different medication. Stopping any bad medication is always a good thing, it's just that your struggles have anything to do with ADHD. You were young and didn't know better, you had a lousy psychiatrist and it's great that you figured out your own way, but that's your experience.

I'm a totally different personality type and the way you felt on Adderall doesn't even sound that great at all- being high, over-confident and a social butterfly was never a life-purpose for me. I never had this tendency on Concerta, I take medication so I can do my job right (debt recovery officer and accountant), so I can learn and so I can behave normally.

If finding your true self and your confidence is the issue, medication doesn't help, but therapy might. You might want to consider going to a therapist, instead of a psychiatrist next time you're feeling down.

sarahsweets
08-29-14, 04:26 AM
I'm sorry that this happened to you and I'm glad that you've found your way but I don't agree for a second about meds not being meant for long term or that the goal should be to live without them. My ADHD is life or death for me-literally.

someothertime
08-29-14, 07:37 AM
i believe on a personal level much mediation can be reached via meditative means.

i know in my situation.... i just *did not get* meditation prior to meds..... so....... for each and every they will find their own middle line... or lean one way or the other...

one advantage of meditative means.... ( concious behavioral control / modification ) is it's 24 hour or at least potential for whole day use. especially after a few months of intensive practice....

my personal opinion is that cases vary so much.... also..... meditative can set a plane for the emotional.... and direct the behavioral....... tho the capacity within..... IMO is definately "facilitated" in most when on responsive meds.... ( or moreso )......

meds do, as you;ve eluded to, have some flipsides for a fair few...... which takes us back to the middle line......

thankyou for your post tho'..... it's a valid perspective that i'm glad you shared.

Lunacie
08-29-14, 10:37 AM
I don't think I ever had ADHD to begin with, I just needed basic core confidence, not drugs. I was hooked from the very first time



Stimulants just screw you up by forcing you "into the moment" and then after stopping you are "way out of the moment" and you started using them because you didn't know how to be "in the moment" in the first place (at least for me.)

Interesting to read what simulants can do to a person who doesn't need them to treat ADHD.

But for those who do have ADHD, the stimulants don't "force" anything.
They help the brain focus, much the way wearing glasses or contacts help the eyes focus.

Daydreamin22
08-29-14, 02:11 PM
Nyseto, you're smart. Your post works for me. Thank you.

Laserbeak
08-29-14, 05:55 PM
Not to diminish your experience, but it's weird to me that people get addicted to Adderall at all. I have a very addictive personality and have struggled with many different substances, but Adderall is not one of them. I have to remember to take it and am constantly building up a horde of unused pills because I forget them so often.

Not that they don't do anything to me, they are quite powerful. It's just I guess I like being more like a zombie than wide awake and productive! LOL

Elizabeth24
08-31-14, 03:31 PM
I don't have a long history of experience with this drug but I dose every third day only 15mg XR and between doses I have noticed that my brain seems to have made new connections, positive ones. It's like the drug is training my brain on how to be more confident, etc...
I just wanted to chime in my 2c.

willow129
08-31-14, 06:37 PM
[QUOTE]ADHD is just another name for low self-esteem/not living in the present/low consciousness/high ego. Everybody has it, and everybody needs to work on it. It is life's path to self-actualization (inner freedom).[QUOTE]

[QUOTE]I don't think I ever had ADHD to begin with, I just needed basic core confidence, not drugs. [QUOTE]

(Note: I am not officially diagnosed and therefore am not taking meds)

Yeah. I bet you don't have ADHD either. That doesn't mean that ADHD doesn't exist, and that it's only a problem of self confidence or awareness, and it doesn't mean that others shouldn't take meds to help them function if they want. While it's good to know about your experience, from what I've read on this forum, yours was an extreme one and you *clearly* know you were abusing the medication. That doesn't mean that everyone who is taking it is abusing it.

I just feel like you make a lot of generalizations, based on your very unpleasant, but dare I say not typical, experience.

I hope you continue on your road to recovery though, and good luck.

Nyseto
09-10-14, 02:14 AM
Something HAD to have happened to my brain from med use. The first time I took 70mg of Vyvanse I felt AMAZING and I thought, "my adhd is gone!" Later down the road when I was addicted, I could take several 70s within a day and they felt nowhere near the same as the first one. It was a very long depression chasing my own tail every second. It wasn't just not being able to feel joy, but I felt lost. I couldn't make sense out of life anymore, nothing made sense. I didn't feel the typical sadness most people feel, I felt complete emptiness and despair. Looking back at it with a clear mind, I can better describe the feelings.

I had heart bursting anxiety day in day out. When I spoke to people I had the feeling that they were aliens looking at me. The paranoia was the worst part. Reality looked the same but it didn't feel or mean the same anymore. It was as if I was getting clues from everything pertaining to existence and God. The clock tower on campus was ticking because it meant I had a few hours left to life. The voices inside my head felt like they were a girl inside of me screaming. I thought I swapped souls with this one girl I knew. I had sheer crying spells that were unbearable to hold back. I was racing through my smartphone reading up on all sorts of crazy spiritual articles pertaining to my feelings which made it worse because I would believe them. Then again, I was looking through them to search for answers. After the main anxiety peak, I was left with medium anxiety and sheer confusion about everything. Apparently every time stimulants made me psychotic, I always brought up God, searching for God...naming God...reading about God...etc. I could still read and communicate and do math and all, but my cognition was gone. I don't know..my brain was just fried for months. I thought I was on different planes of existence, I would question every thought and analyze it.

I don't know what caused more damage. The fact that I took meds regularly or the fact that I had days of taking a lot at once. To make matters worse, I worked at a mortuary for 2 weeks picking up all sorts of bodies WHILE depressed which my doc advised me not to do. I ended up going through 5 different jobs, I had no focus at all because I was always stuck in my head thinking delusional thoughts 24/7.

Perhaps people with ADHD have too much serotonin and not enough dopamine since they balance each other. They're not depressed, they're just scattered. Have too much dopamine and serotonin will be very low with all those empty feelings. Either way I think it was paranoia from too much dopamine coupled with high anxiety and severe emptiness. Maybe stimulants don't damage dopamine receptors, but serotonin instead. Maybe they damage both. Maybe they damage actual structures of the brain. For the first time I realized that it's not that simple at all.

Nyseto
09-10-14, 02:36 AM
The Nuthouse Experience

Apart from the depression, the psych ward was interesting in its own way. Upon arriving, I noticed I could have normal conversations with all the other patients there. However, at first I didn't want to talk to any patients thinking that even though they sounded normal, I could become more psychotic listening to them. I was at a newly built one with good food, staff, etc. They had every window barred, and bathroom rails with metal underneath them so you couldn't hang yourself. The food was great, they had a flat screen t.v., group sessions everyday, social workers, crossword puzzles, and a courtyard in the very middle with a basketball court/gym. Most of the people I met there already had some sort of genuine disorder. Others were probably depressed out of sheer stupidity based off of concrete issues like cheating wives or they had an undiagnosed problem. Few people were actually in there as a result of drug abuse. Oh, there were some felons in there as well. Everyone got along fine, one person tried to make a run for it by hopping on one leg (other ankle was broken in a boot) with nurses chasing him. They pumped some haldol into him to put him to sleep. Heart rates were checked several times a day and blood was drawn to monitor medication levels.

All the people with eating disorders were women. This one lady in there couldn't eat at ALL. I couldn't believe my eyes. She used to eat normally back in the day but she couldn't this time. People tried to reassure her by telling her she looked like Farah Fawcett. Some patients could tell when it was time for them to receive their Xanax or Klonopin saying that they felt like dogs waiting on their treat. The psych ward was the most intense, abstract, and worst experience of my life.

Lunacie
09-10-14, 10:51 AM
Something HAD to have happened to my brain from med use. The first time I took 70mg of Vyvanse I felt AMAZING and I thought, "my adhd is gone!" Later down the road when I was addicted, I could take several 70s within a day and they felt nowhere near the same as the first one. It was a very long depression chasing my own tail every second. It wasn't just not being able to feel joy, but I felt lost. I couldn't make sense out of life anymore, nothing made sense. I didn't feel the typical sadness most people feel, I felt complete emptiness and despair. Looking back at it with a clear mind, I can better describe the feelings.

I had heart bursting anxiety day in day out. When I spoke to people I had the feeling that they were aliens looking at me. The paranoia was the worst part. Reality looked the same but it didn't feel or mean the same anymore. It was as if I was getting clues from everything pertaining to existence and God. The clock tower on campus was ticking because it meant I had a few hours left to life. The voices inside my head felt like they were a girl inside of me screaming. I thought I swapped souls with this one girl I knew. I had sheer crying spells that were unbearable to hold back. I was racing through my smartphone reading up on all sorts of crazy spiritual articles pertaining to my feelings which made it worse because I would believe them. Then again, I was looking through them to search for answers. After the main anxiety peak, I was left with medium anxiety and sheer confusion about everything. Apparently every time stimulants made me psychotic, I always brought up God, searching for God...naming God...reading about God...etc. I could still read and communicate and do math and all, but my cognition was gone. I don't know..my brain was just fried for months. I thought I was on different planes of existence, I would question every thought and analyze it.

I don't know what caused more damage. The fact that I took meds regularly or the fact that I had days of taking a lot at once. To make matters worse, I worked at a mortuary for 2 weeks picking up all sorts of bodies WHILE depressed which my doc advised me not to do. I ended up going through 5 different jobs, I had no focus at all because I was always stuck in my head thinking delusional thoughts 24/7.

Perhaps people with ADHD have too much serotonin and not enough dopamine since they balance each other. They're not depressed, they're just scattered. Have too much dopamine and serotonin will be very low with all those empty feelings. Either way I think it was paranoia from too much dopamine coupled with high anxiety and severe emptiness. Maybe stimulants don't damage dopamine receptors, but serotonin instead. Maybe they damage both. Maybe they damage actual structures of the brain. For the first time I realized that it's not that simple at all.

Too much of anything can be very bad. Too much water can kill you.

Some people are prone to addiction (meds, alcohol, tobacco, etc.).
In the future there may be some way of knowing if you're one of them,
and then having the doctor monitor your meds more carefully.

Most people who take stimulant meds take them responsibly.
Most doctors are afraid to prescribe high doses, even when they would clearly be beneficial.
Damage to dopamine receptors on prescribed doses is very low,
and the benefit from taking a stimulant med must be counter-balanced against the danger.

I'm sorry you're one of the people who is prone to addiction and drug abuse.
But these meds are beneficial for a lot of people who take them responsibly.
Some are able to learn and implement new skills and taper off the meds after some time,
further reducing any danger from long-term use.
Danger from long-term use is only supposition at this point, there is no research into this.

Nyseto
09-24-14, 12:44 AM
Too much of anything can be very bad. Too much water can kill you.

Some people are prone to addiction (meds, alcohol, tobacco, etc.).
In the future there may be some way of knowing if you're one of them,
and then having the doctor monitor your meds more carefully.

Most people who take stimulant meds take them responsibly.
Most doctors are afraid to prescribe high doses, even when they would clearly be beneficial.
Damage to dopamine receptors on prescribed doses is very low,
and the benefit from taking a stimulant med must be counter-balanced against the danger.

I'm sorry you're one of the people who is prone to addiction and drug abuse.
But these meds are beneficial for a lot of people who take them responsibly.
Some are able to learn and implement new skills and taper off the meds after some time,
further reducing any danger from long-term use.
Danger from long-term use is only supposition at this point, there is no research into this.

I agree with you that taking stimulants in the right dosages is helpful but I think one is bound to get addicted by taking dopamine-raising medicine. It's just the nature of the beast. Maybe it's just me and I was already normal thus a small dose got me euphoric and so I wanted more and more. It was happiness in a pill.

someothertime
09-24-14, 03:00 AM
Nyseto, thanks again for posting your experience.

I'd also add, that medicinal interactions are but one of the factors at play. I believe this is the core of Nyseto's thread.

I think perhaps in another thread perhaps in science really differentiating the plethora of manifestations.

Really think everyone would benefit from a concise breakdown of these things...

I've only skimmed the last few posts but hope to get back and digest properly.

I'm also interested in the OP's take on keystone events... I.e. How relavent the experience of hospital would have been meds aside. How powerfully they see that experience ( yes its obviosly huge )... but more so than the med experience... what made it powerful other than the shock...

What now? Is the aim to spend the near term on non traditional treatments... Behavioral stuff... where to now?