View Full Version : 30% of adults with ADHD were abused as a child???


Greyhound1
08-18-14, 02:21 PM
Wow,
This seems like a huge number to me. Maybe, it is because I am not in the 30%.
Also, they don't really define abuse so maybe, I am in the 30%.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140305191156.htm

Thirty percent of adults with attention deficit disorder report childhood physical abuse
Date:
March 5, 2014
Source:
University of Toronto
Summary:
Thirty percent of adults with Attention Deficit Disorder or Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADD/ADHD) report they were physically abused before they turned 18. This compares to seven per cent of those without ADD/ADHD who were physically abused before 18. Investigators examined a representative sample of 13,054 adults aged 18 and over. According to a co-author, "This study underlines the importance of ADD/ADHD as a marker of abuse. With 30 per cent of adults with ADD/ADHD reporting childhood abuse, it is important that health professionals working with children with these disorders screen them for physical abuse."

Thirty percent of adults with Attention Deficit Disorder or Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADD/ADHD) report they were physically abused before they turned 18. This compares to seven per cent of those without ADD/ADHD who were physically abused before 18. The results were in a study published in this week's online Journal of Aggression, Maltreatment, and Trauma.


"This strong association between abuse and ADD/ADHD was not explained by differences in demographic characteristics or other early adversities experienced by those who had been abused," says lead author Esme Fuller-Thomson, Professor and Sandra Rotman Chair at University of Toronto's Factor-Inwentash Faculty of Social Work. "Even after adjusting for different factors, those who reported being physically abused before age 18 had seven times the odds of ADD/ADHD."
Investigators examined a representative sample of 13,054 adults aged 18 and over in the 2005 Canadian Community Health Survey including 1,020 respondents who reported childhood physical abuse and 64 respondents who reported that they had been diagnosed by a health professional with either ADHD or ADD.
"Our data do not allow us to know the direction of the association. It is possible that the behaviors of children with ADD/ADHD increase parental stress and the likelihood of abuse," says co-author Rukshan Mehta, a graduate of the University of Toronto's Masters of Social Work program. "Alternatively, some new literature suggests early childhood abuse may result in and/or exacerbate the risk of ADD/ADHD."
According to co-author Angela Valeo from Ryerson University, "This study underlines the importance of ADD/ADHD as a marker of abuse. With 30 per cent of adults with ADD/ADHD reporting childhood abuse, it is important that health professionals working with children with these disorders screen them for physical abuse."

addthree
08-18-14, 03:24 PM
This does seem high. And what defines abuse? What is abuse now, was not considered abuse 30-40 years ago.

Lunacie
08-18-14, 03:32 PM
I betcha that parents of ADHD children are so frustrated that they spank - or they're told to spank - or they yell way more than parents of NT kids.

So, no, I'm not surprised. We need better information and help available to parents so kids can get diagnosed and treated ASAP.

I've been calling for early intervention for ADHD for many years. Unfortunately some think that means giving kids meds at an early age.

Not at all. Both parents and kids needs some help in learning how best to cope and develop skills when the kid, and sometimes the parent as well, has ADHD.

Asylum
08-18-14, 09:06 PM
Do you really need the term 'physical abuse' defined??

Sounds like an interesting survey, but a fledgling one, obviously a lot more work would have to be done to establish the link. I'd be interested in the same sort of study being done in Australia - we have a extremely high rate of domestic abuse in this country.

daveddd
08-18-14, 09:50 PM
I betcha that parents of ADHD children are so frustrated that they spank - or they're told to spank - or they yell way more than parents of NT kids.

So, no, I'm not surprised. We need better information and help available to parents so kids can get diagnosed and treated ASAP.

I've been calling for early intervention for ADHD for many years. Unfortunately some think that means giving kids meds at an early age.

Not at all. Both parents and kids needs some help in learning how best to cope and develop skills when the kid, and sometimes the parent as well, has ADHD.

i don't think spanking would define abuse

i can understand being frustrated , but if your going to beat your kid over it, i don't think its helpful to blame the child

if your an adult,you need get some kind of help, you can't blame being abusing kids on being frustrated



child abuse will also cause symptoms identical to adhd

Greyhound1
08-18-14, 10:06 PM
Do you really need the term 'physical abuse' defined??

I think we do, unless you know of a universal definition for physical abuse.

Is corporal punishment physical abuse?
I was spanked and whipped as a child and it really hurt by teachers and parents. Does that make me a victim of abuse?


My brother would constantly pick on me both mentally and physically does that count as abuse?

Lunacie
08-18-14, 10:34 PM
i don't think spanking would define abuse

i can understand being frustrated , but if your going to beat your kid over it, i don't think its helpful to blame the child

if your an adult,you need get some kind of help, you can't blame being abusing kids on being frustrated



child abuse will also cause symptoms identical to adhd

Spanking can be considered abuse, but isn't always.

Yes, the behaviors of children with ADHD can lead to increased possibility of abuse by parent.
That is not blaming the child, it's blaming the mental disorder and the lack of understanding.

Yes, early childhood physical abuse can lead to something like ADHD or make existing ADHD worse.

From the link in the OP:
"Our data do not allow us to know the direction of the association. It is possible that the behaviors of children with ADD/ADHD increase parental stress and the likelihood of abuse," says co-author Rukshan Mehta, a graduate of the University of Toronto's Masters of Social Work program. "Alternatively, some new literature suggests early childhood abuse may result in and/or exacerbate the risk of ADD/ADHD."

daveddd
08-18-14, 10:55 PM
Spanking can be considered abuse, but isn't always.

Yes, the behaviors of children with ADHD can lead to increased possibility of abuse by parent.
That is not blaming the child, it's blaming the mental disorder and the lack of understanding.

Yes, early childhood physical abuse can lead to something like ADHD or make existing ADHD worse.

From the link in the OP:

ok, i guess

i just feel like adhd kids wouldn't drive someone with good emotional regulation skills to abuse

so it wouldn't be so much the kid , but the kid only with that adult

babies can't change their behavior, so if their behavior is driving you to abuse one, you need to help yourself immediately

Lunacie
08-18-14, 11:08 PM
ok, i guess

i just feel like adhd kids wouldn't drive someone with good emotional regulation skills to abuse

so it wouldn't be so much the kid , but the kid only with that adult

babies can't change their behavior, so if their behavior is driving you to abuse one, you need to help yourself immediately

Well kids with ADHD generally have at least one parent with ADHD ...
which means that parent may not have very good emotional regulation skills.

Can't tell you how many posts I've seen where the parent didn't know they had ADHD
until their child was diagnosed. Or in a few cases, the grandparent didn't know (like me).
I knew I needed help but nobody helped me or told me why I was struggling.

In this country, it's still widely accepted that parents have to administer physical discipline in order to be "good parents."

I once heard of a study that switched ADHD kids with NT kids.
Parents who were great with NT kids found it much more stressful to parent ADHD kids.
Parents who struggled to parent ADHD kids found they were yelling a lot less with NT kids.
I've never been able to find a link to that study, but it sounds believable to me.

daveddd
08-18-14, 11:11 PM
sounds believable

i wasn't abused , but i know i drove my parents nuts

Greyhound1
08-18-14, 11:25 PM
I can see several big flaws with the study.

1. Defining physical abuse

2. Without #1 the study must depend on the patients definition and interpretation as to whether abuse occurred.

3. What is considered punishment to an NT child could easily be perceived as abuse to a child with ADHD. We have emotional regulation issues.

Many times my brother and I would receive a beating with a belt. I would scream and cry and be traumatized. My brother would laugh and say it didn't hurt even when it did. I would think about it for days and he could care less.

daveddd
08-18-14, 11:30 PM
can you link the whole study

it would probably give at least some explanation of the assessment , probably some of the questions and measures

Greyhound1
08-18-14, 11:40 PM
can you link the whole study

it would probably give at least some explanation of the assessment , probably some of the questions and measures

I didn't see much.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10926771.2014.873510#.UxefSco0PTo

Pilgrim
08-19-14, 12:46 AM
I've always wondered how much of me was my mothers ADD behavior and how much was she just exploding at my behavior.
One thing when your young you don't relies the impact of your behavior at the time.
There was definitely abuse there but my ADD was seperate.

The lasting legacy of the abuse is some bad memories. Oh well too bad.

SB_UK
08-19-14, 05:47 AM
ok, i guess

i just feel like adhd kids wouldn't drive someone with good emotional regulation skills to abuse

so it wouldn't be so much the kid , but the kid only with that adult

babies can't change their behavior, so if their behavior is driving you to abuse one, you need to help yourself immediately

Heritability of ADHD ?

dvdnvwls
08-19-14, 05:58 AM
i just feel like adhd kids wouldn't drive someone with good emotional regulation skills to abuse

I think you're right - but isn't there a pretty high likelihood that at least one parent of an ADHDer won't have good emotional regulation skills?

Lunacie
08-19-14, 09:26 AM
I can see several big flaws with the study.

1. Defining physical abuse

2. Without #1 the study must depend on the patients definition and interpretation as to whether abuse occurred.

3. What is considered punishment to an NT child could easily be perceived as abuse to a child with ADHD. We have emotional regulation issues.

Many times my brother and I would receive a beating with a belt. I would scream and cry and be traumatized. My brother would laugh and say it didn't hurt even when it did. I would think about it for days and he could care less.

#3 is a good point.

Interesting how you and your brother felt differently about being disciplined.

However, I consider "beating with a belt" to be abusive.

daveddd
08-19-14, 09:59 AM
I think you're right - but isn't there a pretty high likelihood that at least one parent of an ADHDer won't have good emotional regulation skills?

Sure. But as an adult once it happens once your to do something about it

No excuses why it should become a persistent pattern of abuse

daveddd
08-19-14, 10:01 AM
I didn't see much.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10926771.2014.873510#.UxefSco0PTo

It mentions sexual abuse too


That has no relation to having an ADHD parent

mildadhd
08-19-14, 03:09 PM
There are lots of different unintentional adoption/anxiety/depression/addiction, like, types of emotional distress, that may affect families.

Abuse throughout life being another type of emotional distress, that may worsen the severity of ADHD impairments of people who have inherited/born with a more emotionally hypersensitive temperament.






P

Unmanagable
08-19-14, 03:28 PM
From my own personal experiences of what abuse was to me, but at the time, I didn't recognize it as such:

I was raised being told how ugly of a baby I was. Apparently, I only weighed 5lbs. when I was born and was super tiny and shriveled up. That didn't meet mom and society's definition of a cute healthy baby, and it was discussed often through the years, and certainly didn't do much to build any self-esteem. Constant comparisons went on throughout all of my years at home. I was never good enough.

We were spanked quite often with belts, belt buckles, switches, and bare hands.

Fear of everything different than us was ingrained in our brain, big time.

I suffered sexual abuse at the age of 13 from a much older cousin, but was convinced (from all the fear shoved down our throats through the years) that I must have done something wrong to make it happen, so I never told anyone.

Those patterns of abuse continued through my adult years because I'd felt I must be doing something to deserve it.

None of the adults viewed that stuff (besides the sexual abuse) as abuse back then. It was called good parenting by most.

Lunacie
08-19-14, 03:39 PM
:grouphug: Unmanagable.

I know what you mean about the attitude from when I was a kid.
I was also sexually abused at 12-13 by an older brother.
I probably would never have told, but my little sister woke up, heard us, and told the parents.
I think she felt she was being left out. :umm1:

I didn't realize I didn't deserve to be treated so badly, that I hadn't done anything to deserve it,
until I was 38 and finally found a great support group for survivors of sexual assault/abuse.
I was 53 before I finally knew that most of what I caught flak for a child wasn't because I was bad or stupid,
it was because I had ADHD.
.

Greyhound1
08-19-14, 07:39 PM
#3 is a good point.

Interesting how you and your brother felt differently about being disciplined.

However, I consider "beating with a belt" to be abusive.

Your last sentence really made me think back. I am not sure if just using a belt makes it abusive.

The one performing the discipline determines the level of abuse. The reason I say that is because the worst I ever received was from a paddle by a teacher.

My father had used belts many times on the butt and it was rough. The worst I remember was a paddling from my 7th art teacher. One the few teachers names I never forgot. She was a very large woman with a helluva swing. She did it in the hallway 6 times in front of the Principal and anyone else walking by. I had bad bruises for about a month.

Never did I tell my parents. I knew that would result in me being in trouble and most likely getting spanked again.

Lunacie
08-19-14, 07:48 PM
In third grade the teacher whacked me across the knuckles with a wooden ruler
- just once - but I could feel weather changes in that hand for years and years afterwards.

When my daughter was little, 35 years ago, I thought spanking was normal.
Now I think it's almost always abuse, and is sending entirely the wrong message.

Like: you hit your brother so now I'm going to hit you on the bottom. Does that actually make sense?

Asylum
08-19-14, 09:53 PM
Yes, the behaviors of children with ADHD can lead to increased possibility of abuse by parent.

I had ADHD and was abused BUT I was the quiet, withdrawn kid, which is still typical within the range of ADHD. Both my parents have ADHD (I think - they've never been diagnosed) but there was no link between that and my abuse - for instance my brother wasn't abused in any way, but I copped all types of abuse. So I'm reluctant to make this particular link.
Also, a lot of child abuse is methodical, planned out and long-term, rather than impulsive acting out.

I've recently come to the conclusion that I have PTSD because of what happened to me after facing up to a few things. I have to wonder how many of my ADHD symptoms my be due to that, and if so how many previously abused ADDERS are out there because of the abuse, rather than being born with it as I previously thought. But its all heresay, I suppose. I feel like I'm left sitting in a corner somewhere and waiting for someone to actually come up with some decent answers, once and for all.

(This comment isn't directly made at you Lunacie, I'm just using your quote.)

mildadhd
08-19-14, 11:25 PM
ADHD related behaviour does not cause children with ADHD to be punished abusively.

Abuse punishment for ADHD related behaviour is the result of uneducated adults, that don't understand ADHD.




P

Greyhound1
08-20-14, 12:04 AM
When my daughter was little, 35 years ago, I thought spanking was normal.
Now I think it's almost always abuse, and is sending entirely the wrong message.

Spanking was normal growing up for me. It was a common practice in every school I attended except High School. I even got spanked by my school bus driver. I felt lucky because he didn't tell my parents. I have even been spanked by my friends parents. They were given permission.

This is very interesting because I never thought I was abused and know I do.
I always thought I was just a bad kid. My damn art teacher abused me physically and emotionally, doing it in front of everyone in the hallway while classes were changing!!!

mildadhd
08-20-14, 12:47 AM
People with a more emotionally hypersensitive temperament are even more likely to be affected by emotional distress than people born with more robust emotional temperament.

My father was one of the greatest people I know, but old school.

And after he passed away, I was surprised to have reoccurring memories about some times he spanked me as a child. (subconscious memories I didn't remember having since I was a child )

I remember being spanked, but what I remember troubling me the most then, was thinking and wondering why, because I didn't know what I did wrong to get the spanked in the first place.

Although I was grounded from the first report card til summer report card every school year, it seemed my parents did realize that there was something slightly different about me and stopped using most old school methods of discipline, because they simply didn't work.

I think spanking was considered normal then.





P

mildadhd
08-20-14, 01:34 AM
Side Note: I think my father would support my post above.

Before he passed away I started taking ADHD medication, and he noticed the improvement, and encouraged me to take the medication and "show them".(-dad)

It's like my dad had a "that's why" moment as well.

That made me feel real good.

Before he passed away I would sometimes discuss these types of parenting topics with my parents, what we know now, verses what we new then, etc., before I would post them here at ADDF.


We can't go back in time, but we can take the information we now know and help educated the newer generations.



P

Lunacie
08-20-14, 11:31 AM
ADHD related behaviour does not cause children with ADHD to be punished abusively.

Abuse punishment for ADHD related behaviour is the result of uneducated adults, that don't understand ADHD.

P

Unfortunately, very few parents are educated about ADHD.



People with a more emotionally hypersensitive temperament are even more likely to be affected by emotional distress than people born with more robust emotional temperament.

My father was one of the greatest people I know, but old school.

And after he passed away, I was surprised to have reoccurring memories about some times he spanked me as a child. (subconscious memories I didn't remember having since I was a child )

I remember being spanked, but what I remember troubling me the most then, was thinking and wondering why, because I didn't know what I did wrong to get the spanked in the first place.

Although I was grounded from the first report card til summer report card every school year, it seemed my parents did realize that there was something slightly different about me and stopped using most old school methods of discipline, because they simply didn't work.

I think spanking was considered normal then.

P

Dr. Barkley has talked about 'Point of Performance.' Many kids with ADHD will have completely forgotten what they did by the time "... your father gets home."

Lunacie
08-20-14, 11:34 AM
I had ADHD and was abused BUT I was the quiet, withdrawn kid, which is still typical within the range of ADHD. Both my parents have ADHD (I think - they've never been diagnosed) but there was no link between that and my abuse - for instance my brother wasn't abused in any way, but I copped all types of abuse. So I'm reluctant to make this particular link.
Also, a lot of child abuse is methodical, planned out and long-term, rather than impulsive acting out.

I've recently come to the conclusion that I have PTSD because of what happened to me after facing up to a few things. I have to wonder how many of my ADHD symptoms my be due to that, and if so how many previously abused ADDERS are out there because of the abuse, rather than being born with it as I previously thought. But its all heresay, I suppose. I feel like I'm left sitting in a corner somewhere and waiting for someone to actually come up with some decent answers, once and for all.

(This comment isn't directly made at you Lunacie, I'm just using your quote.)

I'd be interested in seeing more information (links) to the idea that a lot of child abuse is methodical and planned.

Stevuke79
08-20-14, 03:21 PM
As far as whether spanking is abuse, if science is our guide, as I would expect in a scientific study, spanking is abuse.

Studies have found health risks associated with even light corporal punishment and no study has ever found long term benefits. The only study that actually found a benefit, short term compliance, also reported that corporal punishment was no better in this regard than alternatives such as time-outs which didn't have the long term negative effects.

In many places (like the US) there is a disconnect between public and scientific consensus on this issue. It's such a common practise and yet abuse is so stigmatized, how can someone admit that either they or their parents have abused their children. But I don't think a scientific study has this dilemma.

Stevuke79
08-20-14, 03:29 PM
ok, i guess

i just feel like adhd kids wouldn't drive someone with good emotional regulation skills to abuse

so it wouldn't be so much the kid , but the kid only with that adult

babies can't change their behavior, so if their behavior is driving you to abuse one, you need to help yourself immediately

I think you're right - but isn't there a pretty high likelihood that at least one parent of an ADHDer won't have good emotional regulation skills?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say neither of you have raised any kids. :) ;) ;)

Even if spanking IS abuse (which is my opinion), restraining from spanking ANY kid, ADHD or not, requires incredible resolve. I was shocked that for NT's it was only 7%. My wife has assured me, and I share her sentiment, that it is only a matter of time before one of us finds the other curled up in a ball at the bottom of our linen closet rocking back and forth repeating: I will not hit my child,.. I will not hit my child, .. I will not hit my child..

I wonder if the definition of abuse was simply the subject's answer when asked: were you abused.

daveddd
08-20-14, 07:44 PM
steve and lunacie

I'm sorry if I've offended you, by stating I'm completely against abuse and adhd should not be a valid excuse to do what you please

would a court find you competent in a case when you have adhd?

i also understand the uncontrollable frustration that can occur with adhd

Lunacie
08-20-14, 07:59 PM
steve and lunacie

I'm sorry if I've offended you, by stating I'm completely against abuse and adhd should not be a valid excuse to do what you please

would a court find you competent in a case when you have adhd?

i also understand the uncontrollable frustration that can occur with adhd

I am not offended by your viewpoint. I am also very much against child abuse.

I did not offer ADHD as an excuse for losing control, but as a reasonable explanation.

There are many people in prison right now who have ADHD and made bad choices or lost control.

I'd rather see better information and diversion programs to help people manage their ADHD.

daveddd
08-20-14, 08:01 PM
I am not offended by your viewpoint. I am also very much against child abuse.

I did not offer ADHD as an excuse for losing control, but as a reasonable explanation.

There are many people in prison right now who have ADHD and made bad choices or lost control.

I'd rather see better information and diversion programs to help people manage their ADHD.

i agree, although when it involves someone else , you need to do something

i have been in prison for impulsive related behavior

Stevuke79
08-20-14, 08:15 PM
steve and lunacie

I'm sorry if I've offended you, by stating I'm completely against abuse and adhd should not be a valid excuse to do what you please

would a court find you competent in a case when you have adhd?

i also understand the uncontrollable frustration that can occur with adhd

Oh no, not at all. You didn't offend me.

I think your statement to the effect that "anyone with sufficient emotional regulation should be able to refrain from spanking" was a reasonable statement and a likely point of view. I think all parents but only parents might agree that's not the case and understand that any child could make even a well regulated individual consider horrible punitive measures (most of is have :))- I was sharing this view in a sort of felicitous way.

You were fine and I appreciated your posts.

daveddd
08-20-14, 08:18 PM
ok, i just mentioned i can see a spanking, maybe an over the edge once

but if you went over the edge, its on you now

if this becomes a pattern, you no longer are a victim of impulsiveness , you now own it

Stevuke79
08-20-14, 08:23 PM
Let me be clear on my position:

1. Not spanking your child require the highest levels of resolve
2. If your resolve falls short*, you belong in a cage.

*(more than once a year or 2 years. For the record, my resolve has held so far.)

Asylum
08-20-14, 09:10 PM
I'd be interested in seeing more information (links) to the idea that a lot of child abuse is methodical and planned.

Links?? No, you just have to listen to the stories of people who were abused. Have you heard of pedophilia? Grooming doesn't happen spontaneously. Mental abuse is methodical. I can't even finish writing what I was going to because I'm too upset. Are you serious???

Lunacie
08-20-14, 09:19 PM
Links?? No, you just have to listen to the stories of people who were abused. Have you heard of pedophilia? Grooming doesn't happen spontaneously. Mental abuse is methodical. I can't even finish writing what I was going to because I'm too upset. Are you serious???

I see. I hadn't followed that you were talking about pedophilia.

daveddd
08-20-14, 09:34 PM
I see. I hadn't followed that you were talking about pedophilia.

the study did mention sexual abuse as a form of abuse

from an adult to child , that is pedophilia

Lunacie
08-20-14, 09:41 PM
the study did mention sexual abuse as a form of abuse

from an adult to child , that is pedophilia

Not all child molesters are pedophiles.

Not all pedophiles are child molesters.

daveddd
08-20-14, 09:51 PM
Not all child molesters are pedophiles.

Not all pedophiles are child molesters.


i understand that a lot of people who technically are pedophiles problem can restrain themselves from acting on it

i don't buy that sexual abuse of a child can be explained by anything other than sadistic and pedophilia

Lunacie
08-20-14, 10:01 PM
i understand that a lot of people who technically are pedophiles problem can restrain themselves from acting on it

i don't buy that sexual abuse of a child can be explained by anything other than sadistic and pedophilia

And you are entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't seem to be supported by the statistics/research.

From: http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/child-molester-or-pedophile-is-there-a-difference-and-what-drives-them

"True pedophiles are responsible for only a small percentage of child sexual molestations. Half of child sexual abusers are the parents of the victims; other relatives commit an additional 18%of the offenses. And while active pedophiles are generally single men between the ages of 16 and 35, child molesters are generally married men, of any age, who are primarily drawn to their own children and/or step children."

daveddd
08-20-14, 10:09 PM
And you are entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't seem to be supported by the statistics/research.

From: http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/child-molester-or-pedophile-is-there-a-difference-and-what-drives-them

well the technical definition of a pedophile is a sexual attraction to children

i don't understand how the factors you present contradict a sexual attraction to children


is it my computer or is addf moving really slow

Lunacie
08-20-14, 10:16 PM
well the technical definition of a pedophile is a sexual attraction to children

i don't understand how the factors you present contradict a sexual attraction to children


is it my computer or is addf moving really slow

Pedophiles are sexually attracted only to children. They feel an emotional connection with children that they may not feel with adults.

Child molesters may use children for sexual gratification if the occasion presents itself, but are capable of adult sexual relationships as well

Greyhound1
08-21-14, 09:34 AM
Not all child molesters are pedophiles.

Not all pedophiles are child molesters.

I am confused by this. I understand how a pedophile isn't necessarily a child molester. I don't get how a child molester isn't a pedophile.

SB_UK
08-22-14, 02:19 AM
If we ask MeADD823 (just because she's described it here) what it was like at school.
It was uncomfortable.
She hated it and medications helped.

That's abuse.

Now the fact that nonADDers can handle the abuse makes us sensitive to that abuse - a sensitivity to an abuse which others (nonADDers) would not class as abuse.

So - given the idea of ADDers as 'sensitive' - the word 'abuse' will mean something (potentially) different in our case.

My take on the Western education / workplace.

Education - easy enough, but I don't really want to know anything you're telling me.

Workplace - easy enough, but you're not doing anything the most efficient way and there's little point to whatever you're attempting.

So - why wouldn't we (ADDers) expect our sensitivity (tendency towards logical consistency) to express itself through feeling abused, with the word here used in a context which is ADDer-specific.

To be honest - the entire life which I've experienced feels like one of abuse.
There's an essential freedom lacking here - and a compulsion to 'do' not what comes naturally - but unnaturally towards maintaining the status quo of inequality.

Education fills one's head with information - which although is not incorrect - is not essential.
You're then forced to earn money and so need to fly the flag for your educatiion - the geneticist genetically modifies, the chemist synthesizes death-inducing pharmaceuticals for the lucrative cancer market ... ...

My basic point is that the ADDer suffers constant abuse in this present world.
That abuse manifests itself as distress.
Chronic distress (persistent activation of the fight or flight response) gives rise to a series of consequences - of which ADHD (the disorder) is one.

So - ADHD - as essentially - a tendency towards logical consistency - because the mind assembles in a way which necessitates logical consistency with what is known ie AND mind (convergent) not EOR mind (divergent)
- and operation outside of the needs of this self-stipulating logical structure causes us the feeling of being abuse -> stress -> disorder component of ADHD.

It needs to be noted that as of the emergence of modern man - the human mind has been the only subject worth discussing.
There has been a clear divide between those who double think (sophist) and those who strive for logical consistency (Socrates)
- and all that I'm suggesting is that the emergence of ADDers reflects a minor alteration in the structure of brain/mind which makes self-assembly of the logically consistent mind not negotiable.

Thing is - we're dead (as a species) unless we operate consistently with our own survival.
This is not currently happening.

Why ? when survival is what evolution generally concerns itself with - would we have acquired a mind which clearly is accelerating our own destruction (nuclear, biological, chemical, physical weapons)
- where the answer seems to be that the precursor mind to ADDers permitted disconnected logical models of reality to be stored (double think able <- mark of the psychopath politician)
- whereas cognitive dissonance tuned ADDers (as a tool for eliminating logical inconsistencies as they pertain to morality)
-- is an externally visible marker of an internally altered structure of logical unit which is scaled to generate mind.

-*-

In simple terms - ADDers are predisposed towards a 'true' world view - since new evidence shatters our old world view ie we can't house inconsistencies in mind.

The HUGE error in human academic fields - is to fail to generate a model of the human mind ie that thing which does our thinking - because until we know its pitfalls - we can't use it, itself correctly.

The major pitfall of the human mind is (education/workplace driven) - an attraction to selfishness. This attraction is fed by current capitalist society - and the net effect is for us to breed an uncreative society of consumerist monsters.

The ADDer can be the cure to this disease - because the ADDer mind forever feels abuse without any neurochemical reward from chasing these ideals.

So - how does the tendency to logical consistency ADDer obtain reward ?
Well - the evolutionary process is to create.

From the Big Bang onwards - we've observed a natural process of increasing complexity within creation.

I think that what brings the ADDer reward is to align oneself with creativity - to leave a better world than one found - knowing that that better world which the individual has contributed to - makes life better for subsequent generations.

So - the effect of nonADDers (probably ADDers too going completely mad) in this current society is in complete opposition to the behaviours required by ADDers to obtain reward.

In the absence of reward we need to take it in bottle form (stimulant medication).

From what I've learnt from the literature - all that we know for sure is that ADHD has a familial nature, courts distress and is aided by stress-busting stimulant medication.

So - the little we know about ADHD (despite the 000's of publications) can be simply explained away by a simple change in a number of aspects of human biology which favour survival.

These are - a tendency towards moral consistency alongside the 'thrifty gene' hypothesis ie more aerobic in nature [more efficient metabolic engine] than precursor species - the emergence of a social species will - definitely enhance the chances of survival of the Hominid line.

Being moral and Being energy efficient - are survival enhancing properties which dramatically (at least currently) result in premature death - engagement in immorality (in those who're moral) drives 50:50 fat/carb intake (which drives insulin promoted anabolic processes including fat deposition (which associates with all diseases of Western living eg Alzheimer's disease is informally considered 'Type III diabetes')) as stress relief ... ... is the recipe for disaster.

SB_UK
08-22-14, 03:01 AM
So 10 years ago today.
The use of these new logical structures necessarily results in a kind of enforced moral consistency, another point of severe contention with normals.

I think I agreed 10 years ago today.

And the same basic idea is still going strong.

I'm not so sure that I can find any more evidence to try and oust the idea.

-*-

Simply - ADDers - different type - tendency towards consistency - programmed towards properly social behaviour - can't help ourselves - fundamentally programmed into the way our mind self-assembles. Parallel changes - more aerobic profile.
<- evolutionary selection of properties which favour enhanced survival ... ... though it's more about survival to man - we're more into quality of experrience - though where the phrase 'dying of boredom' perhaps introduces the idea that human beings find it difficult to survive in a barren sensory realm.

Greyhound1
08-23-14, 07:25 PM
Wow, this quote I found in a Science Journal speaks volumes to me. This plus my ADHD explains a lot. The quote below was information based on NT children.

Corporal punishment has been linked with all sorts of behavior problems, including aggression, paranoia, school failure, poor emotional regulation, and low empathy (Larzelere and Kuhn 2005; Johnson et al 2006; Alyahri and Goodman 2008; Chang et al 2003; Gershoff 2002)

Spanking children older than 5 or 6 is a bad idea. Research suggests that older kids are especially susceptible to the negative effects of spanking. They are more likely to become antisocial or distressed. They are also more likely to develop negative relationships with their parents.

mildadhd
08-24-14, 01:51 AM
In general, I think the timing(s) of the emotional distress(es), coincides with the critical/sensitive period(s) of development from conception.

If the emotional distress occurs before the more cognitive verbal explicit critical stages of brain development, the earlier more affective preverbal implicit critical stages of brain development may be affected.






P

SB_UK
08-25-14, 07:18 AM
In general, I think the timing(s) of the emotional distress(es), coincides with the critical/sensitive period(s) of development from conception.

If the emotional distress occurs before the more cognitive verbal explicit critical stages of brain development, the earlier more affective preverbal implicit critical stages of brain development may be affected.

P

Time for a magical experiment.

Let's say we take a woman one day after becoming pregnant and we duplicate her using HP's new printer copier.

Is this to suggest that we can define an environment in which the mother will have a child with ADHD and an environment in which the mother will not have a child with ADHD ie we can define the entire environment from food, temperature, TV programs, gym access, gym routine etc for the 2 photocopies - can we generate 1 adder and 1 nonadder.

Forgetting what heritability exactly means mechanistically - if we're observing adder types generating adder types almost exclusively (very high heritability) - then that would have to mean that the all people are exposed to the adverse ADD environment ie the environment that we'd need to stipulate in order to get the one photocopy to have an ADDer child.

Why's that important ? Well - it'd mean that we'd need to make a very large change in order to alter some ubiquitous aspect of environment.

SB_UK
08-25-14, 07:24 AM
In general, I think the timing(s) of the emotional distress(es), coincides with the critical/sensitive period(s) of development from conception.

If the emotional distress occurs before the more cognitive verbal explicit critical stages of brain development, the earlier more affective preverbal implicit critical stages of brain development may be affected.
P

Is the ADDer broken prior to mind (5 years) ?
Or broken by what we're required to do post-mind (school/work) ?

The ADDer is different - but why can't the difference be sensitivity ?
And the distress be the sensitivity being trampled over ?

Personally - I can't stand fireworks and firework exposure hurts - exposure to fireworks would cause me pain - in a society where I'm exposed to fireworks 24-7 - I would be adversely (unlike other people) affected ... ... but the disorder is one of sensitive hearing - which isn't really a disorder/disease
- merely becomes one in a world where people generate fireworks for entertainment because they're incapable of just sitting still and being happy.

Something good (sensitivity) becomes something bad (distress) in a society which can (unlike you) handle (actually be addicted to) something unnecessary (fireworks).
Similarly
Something good (alcohol/food insensitivity) becomes something bad (distres) in a society which can (unlike you) handle (actually be addicted to) something unnecessary (alcohol,sugar,starch,animal protein).

Carbs aren't required for life.
Animal products aren't required for life.
Alcohol isn't required for life.

SB_UK
08-25-14, 07:33 AM
I guess my point is - what if we scale back the most narrow specification of a happy person - and it comes to some form of basic food, some form of basic temperature, some form of beauty to observe -

and suggest that the ADDer sensitivity is insensitivity to all factors other than these which our standard society considers essential.

We'll appear to be allergic/intolerant/incapable of paying attention to all other aspects of society (particularly the ones our current society is addicted to like winning, being beetter than another person, fighting) ... ... and express distress which results in dysfunction.

So - if we travel back to science - it's often said that science is the simplest explanatory model.

What if our reward system is set at the simplest 'rewarding' paradigm which simply requires a suitable foodstuff for our biome (fresh veg), a suitable temperature for our regulatory processes (life in the sun) and something interesting (natural world diversity) to look at.

So - we take everything else that human beings have generated and see that it's an attempt to create comfort - which has fallen flat.

I'm pretty sure that the standard shoe is the cause of our back problems.
As is the bed.

Do you see ?

We're maybe given the eyes to see that almost nothing that human beings have introduced is ACTUALLY in our species' best interests - and it would be fitting that a species should emerge without reward from engaging in such activities
- because they're really going to have to change.

-*-

30% of adults with ADHD were abused as a child???
I'd argue that for disorder to expose itself the ADDer must be experiencing abuse defined as forced engagement in behaviours which are not in line with the ADDer's reward system.

Or that ADHD disorder is distress.
And that core ADHD basis is simply social mindedness.

So ADHD disorder can be alleviated by allowing social mindedness an appropriately social environment in which to be mindful.

How ?
Optimal, sustainable food + shelter in sun to all unconditionally through co-operative working.

1 week of life - build sustainable house and move in.
1 hour per week thereafter - carry poop down to farm and pour into hole for our little wormy friends, dig up a few weeds ... ... carry potatoes home to be fried.

That's it -
school's out for summer.
school's out for ever.

Though I prefer the Christian rock group ADBC

'kindly deeds done for free'