View Full Version : "Have you actually read the attachment research?"


mildadhd
08-27-14, 07:27 PM
Hi

This thread is meant to collect and discuss attachment research with those people interested in reading and discussing the material.

Any research that will help understand attachment and attunement is appreciated.


Examples


"..Have you actually read the attachment research?" -Dr.Dan Siegel

The Attuned Therapist (http://www.drdansiegel.com/uploads/The-attunded-therapist.pdf)



LEARNING OBJECTIVES

This is an intermediate to advanced level course. After completing this course, mental health professionals will be able to:

-List and discuss four critical mechanisms in attachment transactions.
-Describe how emotional transactions between mother and infant shape developing right brain circuits.
-Explain how the right brain stores internal working memory of attachment in implicit/procedural memory.
-Describe how and why the orbitofrontal cortex acts as a control system of attachment.
-Discuss how right brain circuits are necessary for optimal social-emotional functioning across the life span.



Secure Attachment and Right Brain Development (http://www.continuingedcourses.net/active/courses/course063.php)

by Allan N. Schore, Ph.D.


P

SB_UK
08-28-14, 04:07 AM
http://www.continuingedcourses.net/active/courses/course063.php

In other words, the same interactive regulatory transactions that co-create a secure attachment bond also influence the development and expansion of the infant’s regulatory systems involved in appraising and coping with stress, and are therefore essential to organismic survival. According to McEwen and Stellar, “A stressful stimulus results in a severe perturbation of an organism’s physiological systems, and the degree of the perceived or real threat determines the magnitude of the stress response to an internal or external challenge” (1993, p. 2093). In describing stress, a concept that lies at the interface of the biological and psychological realms, Weinstock (1997) states: The survival of living organisms depends upon the maintenance of a harmonious equilibrium or homeostasis in the face of constant challenge by intrinsic or extrinsic forces or stressors. Stress is a term that is widely used to describe both the subjective experience induced by a novel, potentially threatening or distressing situation, and the behavioral or neurochemical reactions to it. These are designed to promote adaptive response to the physical and psychological stimuli and preserve homeostasis. Successful equilibrium is reflected by a rapid neurochemical response to these stimuli which is terminated at the appropriate time, or gives way to counter-regulatory measures to prevent an excessive reaction (p. 1).
- Summary -
in the absence of human (parental/child) distress (by def adverse) the child will develop just fine ?

It's just that everything goes wrong in the presence of chronic distress ... ... and so it's just yet another downstream consequence of living in an anti-social world ?

-*-

It's hard to form a society unless we know what human beings are meant to achieve.
Are we all meant to beat Bolt run the 100m ?
Are we all meant to be hedge fund managers ?

No - we all need to have a rational understanding of what is right and what is wrong such that we make the transition from selfish able into enforcedly moral/social at wisdom.
The society that the wise'd create 'd eliminate maternal/child distress - 'd allow attachment and the development of the regulatory pathways required for child to begin child's progress towards gaining a rational understanding of what is right and what is wrong such that we make the transition from selfish able into enforcedly moral/social at wisdom.

Can't do that in a world of love/desire and presence of money.

mctavish23
08-28-14, 09:29 PM
Short Answer (for me personally) = yes.

mildadhd
08-31-14, 08:48 PM
(10:20)"..relationships are what stimulate growth and learning" (-Dr.Dan Siegel)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiyaSr5aeho

SB_UK
09-01-14, 05:44 AM
Reward stimulates growth/learning ?

ie if one gains reward getting better then one attempts to become better ?

SB_UK
09-01-14, 05:57 AM
It's the core problem with Western style education - the only reward which is obtained is artificial ie getting good marks - which is akin to getting good pay.

It's a reward but not one which encourages growth/learning - it just teaches people to do what they're told - which is the diametric opposite position to creativity.

Creativity <-> Docility

You breed a docile population if you use an external reward ie marks/money to drive participation.

The ADDer never really gets any satisfaction from that reward system - we can do it - but stumble through that entire charade feeling as though we're missing something ie we're going to feel 'good' at some point later down the line

- but as stated by Alan Watts - that time NEVER comes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBmWMjohgI0

SB_UK
09-01-14, 06:52 AM
So if we can summarize the mind as being the combination of
systematizing
empathizing
ie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd7bVgyTJK4
systematizing -> male archetype (prickle)
empathizing -> female archetype (goo)

So we'd expect reward from - a system (systematizing) which benefits others (empathizing).

We're back around to the need for education to confer rational morality - and then people for crank through rational moral behaviours and to gain reward from attunement to an attached global population - when you see evidence for yourself of your own work leading to benefit for others.

SB_UK
09-01-14, 06:58 AM
IE to be properly human - reward is reflected from the joy/happiness/pleasure of others ie the selfish ADDer has to be 'social'.

Has to generate 'things' which benefit others - in order to feel a sense of reward - which is absolutely required by reward system bearing life forms.

ADDers have a different reward system and need to be allowed to gain reward using that reward system - which is absolutely at loggerheads with what all people do in education and the workplace.

It's not that anything we're taught is wrong - it's so what ? it's taught to compete with others ? it's taught with a backdrop of beating others to jobs ?

Education is not offered freely to enhance your life - towards building you into a person who is equipped to make the lives of others better.

In fact, in a capitalist society it's impossible to do anything worthwhile since the system we're in prevents 'good'.

SB_UK
09-01-14, 07:23 AM
So ... ... all I'd suggest attachment/attunement is -

is a structure formed by all human beings.
The individual needs reward.

We can obtain addictive reward (ie taking a drug, carbs/fat, beating another person, materialism) or we can obtain properly human reward which simply represents learning and then applying rationally moral behaviours.

Making the world a better place.

We (the individual) feels good when we make the world a better place.
We (ADDers) can't feel reward from attaining some pointless (ie taking a drug, carbs/fat, beating another person, materialism) goal ... ...

and there you have it.

-*-

Simply no reward / general dissatisfaction from life in this current competitive/capitalist world.

Plenty of reward / satisfaction from pulling back from the stress of contravening our reward system and simply going with it.

If I had to be pushed - I'd suggest that the ADDer reward system allows happy functionality as long as 'do no harm' ie nothing positive (carrying old ladies across busy roads) is required.

ie that the ADDer dysfunction we describe on these pages is more through a life of 'do harm' and simply by altering society globally - we can stop doing harm at which point we'll be fine

- even if all we do is live in the sun eating garden grown veggies from birth till death do us part.

IE the adder has 'transcended' the primitive reward system - and only appears to be particularly caught up in it ie addiction - because of the stress of living within it.

-*-

So nothing wrong with ADDer - everything wrong with society.

ADDer fine in a fair society.

No self-medication required.

ADDer isn't required to save the planet - but is required to work in logical consistency with a saved planet as essential rpe-requisite for happy survival of species
- which is what the evolutionary force imparts.

IE we should expect to see the emergence of a species not hell-bent on its own destruction - after the previous one - which - I think it's fairly clear from its attachment to war - was all over the place with a distinct liking for killing itself off which marketted itself as saving itself.

All very peculiar.

SB_UK
09-01-14, 07:33 AM
I can't find any argument against -
there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with ADDers.

There's everything wrong with what society expects people to do.

ADDers are more sensitive to the insanity of society and actually get to feel BAD when we do harm - whereas others appear to be able to get so addicted by the materialistic reward obtained from feeling harm - that they're able to comply.

Silence in the sun is all that is required for the ADDers to be happy.
But you've gotta' stop the mini-Hitlers from popping into existence, because it's only a matter of time before virulent mini-Hitlers come a-knocking demanding that you pay homage to them with gifts of some shape or form.

Human beings are such ridiculous things.

ruby.149.42
09-04-14, 06:24 AM
Hi

This thread is meant to collect and discuss attachment research with those people interested in reading and discussing the material.

Any research that will help understand attachment and attunement is appreciated.


That Siegel / Kagan biff was really interesting P and I've meant to get back to you on this but I've been trying to follow it up as it spawned into "The Great Attachment Debate (http://www.psychotherapynetworker.org/blog-communities/viewtag/136_Great%20Attachment%20Debate)" between the 2 a couple of years ago. They ended up doing a webinar series on it with lots of your favourite people but it's no longer available apparently. I did find a link a couple of days ago to the debate that came after this one between Siegel & Kagan but can't find it now (I've got the text and can email). Bottom line was their agreed conclusion (insecure attachment doesn't matter so much as long as you make sense of it .. i.e., understand how it has impacted you i.e, insight will set you free) BUT I don't think this is so appropriate for ADHD because you can be fully conversant with your traumatic childhood and done tons of therapy but still have a whole bagful of executive function deficits, even when away from stress, although they are certainly lessened. That's what I'm tryign to figure out at the moment.

The Schore stuff is great. I've held off on that till I finished the Coursera L2L which I've only just finished so working my way through it now.

ruby.149.42
09-04-14, 07:34 PM
Have found it now - here it is (http://www.psychotherapynetworker.org/magazine/currentissue/item/1681-psychotherapys-great-debates?tmpl=component&print=1)(Round 2 of the Siegel / Kagan debate). Psychotherapy Networker setup the webinar series but they won't allow access to the videos anymore frustratingly. Sessions were:Sroufe, Siegel, Kagan, Schore, Johnson, Schnarch and Troninck.

What you can still do instead is go and read the blogs from the sessions (http://www.psychotherapynetworker.org/blog-communities/NP0016) and if you read through the comments, you see people arguing about some of the points which at least gives a partial glimpse of the sessions. Can't remember if you need to join up to Psych Networker or not - I did to try and access the sessions .. to no avail.

So thanks again for that initial link P, it took me off on a very interesting journey!

daveddd
09-04-14, 07:48 PM
Have found it now - here it is (http://www.psychotherapynetworker.org/magazine/currentissue/item/1681-psychotherapys-great-debates?tmpl=component&print=1)(Round 2 of the Siegel / Kagan debate). Psychotherapy Networker setup the webinar series but they won't allow access to the videos anymore frustratingly. Sessions were:Sroufe, Siegel, Kagan, Schore, Johnson, Schnarch and Troninck.

What you can still do instead is go and read the blogs from the sessions (http://www.psychotherapynetworker.org/blog-communities/NP0016) and if you read through the comments, you see people arguing about some of the points which at least gives a partial glimpse of the sessions. Can't remember if you need to join up to Psych Networker or not - I did to try and access the sessions .. to no avail.

So thanks again for that initial link P, it took me off on a very interesting journey!

all star cast

throw in linehan, kohut , and kernberg and your doctorate level informed