View Full Version : Pair bonding in man


SB_UK
09-10-14, 07:37 AM
p20 Times Wed Sept 10th 2014
Why soulmate's death can often prove fatal

Human life-cycle

From article :
1. Amount of DHEA produced decreases from age 30
2. DHEA counteracts cortisol

From yesterday's thread on Hans Selye and previous threads on pair-bonding
3. Oxytocin and Dopamine produced in pair-bond (research on voles)
4. Distress = bad stress = production cortisol/adrenaline
5. Eustress = oxytocin and dopamine

From article :
6. Soulmate dies soon after partner, cortisol identified - eventually die of condition relating to immune dysfunction.

-*-

So what're we looking at ?

Reward from pair-bonding.
Reward from wisdom (enlightenment)

Hey!
Why not do both !!

SB_UK
09-10-14, 07:41 AM
- Goal -
Pair-bonded male (wise) exercising with dog in sun with pair-bonded woman (wise) gardening with cat in sun; both in silence.

1. Pair-bonded
2. Healthy diet
3. Exercise
4. Wisdom
5. Sun exposure

Dogs and cats don't talk.

SB_UK
09-10-14, 07:59 AM
1. Born into society in which there is no physical distress - basic physiological necessities met ie food/shelter for all unconditionally.
Food*/Shelter all sustainable, natural.
*emphasis on MUFA ketosis, fasting

2. Education - rational / morality ie what *is* best for all people as the basis to education.
Work towards personal excellence - art, beauty, personal quality

3. Optimise aerobic metabolism - aerobic exercise*.
* emphasis on endurance exercise - hitting and passing through the wall

3. Pair-bond formation starts (teen)

4. Pair-bond formation completion (thirties)

5. Wisdom acquisition (forties)
->-
You are now free to live.
You have nothing else to achieve.
Having prepared to die.

The human life-cycle

SB_UK
09-10-14, 08:08 AM
So - we've always something to do.

Overcoming the 'apple' ie sweet foods - drive anabolism - growth by completing the human growth/metamorphic cycle.

Overcoming the fatal attraction for the opposite gender - by pair-bond formation.

Overcoming the urge to hurt other people (idea of good/evil) - eliminated at wisdom

So ... ... the 3 motifs from the Garden of Eden represent 'goals' ie change diet, pair-bond and wisdom - in that order (I guess) which we overcome to be allowed to pass the nasty cherubim with a flaming sword
Boo!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aOGnVKWbwc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aOGnVKWbwc)

Back into the garden.


Definitely.

Game over.

SB_UK
09-10-14, 08:10 AM
I'm going to try an' get my soul free

Caught in the devil's bargain
And we've got to get ourselves
Back to the garden

The basis to ALL (East meets West) religion.

SB_UK
09-10-14, 08:13 AM
emancipation, liberation or release

from the oldest religion

to the latest revolution
liberty, egality, fraternityJust people trying to work out how to be free.

For freedom see:
1. Born into society in which there is no physical distress - basic physiological necessities met ie food/shelter for all unconditionally.
Food*/Shelter all sustainable, natural.
*emphasis on MUFA ketosis, fasting
POINT 1 - ELIMINATE DISTRESS (physical and psychological components)

2. Education - rational / morality ie what *is* best for all people as the basis to education.
Work towards personal excellence - art, beauty, personal quality
POINT 2 - MAXIMISE EUSTRESS (physical and psychological components)

3. Optimise aerobic metabolism - aerobic exercise*.
* emphasis on endurance exercise - hitting and passing through the wall

3. Pair-bond formation starts (teen)

4. Pair-bond formation completion (thirties)

5. Wisdom acquisition (forties)
->-
You are now free to live.
You have nothing else to achieve.
Having prepared to die.

The human life-cycle

SB_UK
09-10-14, 09:17 AM
The basic point is that there's an addiction to blood glucose elevation ie to sweet foods, there's an addiction to knowledge and there's an addiction to woman/pair-bond partner

but it's only with wisdom that all dissipate.

So the loss of attraction to blood glucose elevation and to ketosis in line with the idea that blood glucose elevation (see idea on stress which mobilizes bloog glucose) shortens life.

All of the 3 basic addictions mentioned above ie to a food stuff - blood glucose elevation, knowledge, pair-bonded partner dissipate on wisdom and entry into the spiritual state.

Why am I producing a huge sigh of relief ?

Because I haven't been able to see if pair-bond is on a par with wisdom
- I think that it's a key stage in our life-cycle but it's with wisdom that we achieve full loss of material world attachement through spiritual world synchrony/resonance

- and enter bliss.

Heaven on Earth before Heavern proper.

The meaning of life.
Basis to all religions.
Underlying basis to all political movements, rebellions, art ... ... to most of human endeavour.

To understand what it is to be human.
What it is to achieve freedom (caught in the devil's bargain).

And then when free ... ...

~ roll credits ~

Just live.

SB_UK
09-10-14, 09:31 AM
So - a question might be - well let's avoid the path and eat what we want, not exercise and have multiple relationships before hitting wisdom.

Well - once your teeth are rotten they won't come back.
Life is better in a fit, flexible body ... it's a nightmare not to be able to bend.
Multiple relationships - with each relationship - settling into just 1 becomes difficult.

Wisdom - is compatible with a certain pattern of eating, exercise, relationship
- ie morality is compatible with a certain pattern of eating, exercise, relationship

by that I mean that morality - maximising one's worth to species is ensured if the individual is healthy; there's some aspect of morality to maintain oneself in peak mental/psychological condition to maximise one's contribution to the group ... ...

- it's hard for someone habituated to immorality to become moral ie you're just making your own fixed happiness harder to achieve by chasing (addictive propensity) incompatible (with morality) ideals.

However - I guess it's not impossible - just harder ??

If one chooses the more difficult route then as long as the individual gets to wisdom in the end and is happy then all's fine ... ... it's just best to arrive there with an unscathed body/mind ... ... 'cos you're not going to enjoy your olives if you're wearing false teeth etc ... ...

-*-

Route listed above - then as an optimal route.

To arrive asap at happiness and to live a life in a pristine body until death takes you at a healthy advanced age.

That's what we're looking for - it's up to the individual as to whether they pursue this route - though ... ... who in their right mind wouldn't ?

Pain is no fun.

SB_UK
09-10-14, 09:50 AM
What would you do if you're no longer driven (by attachment) to do anything ?

Many prisoners (see Shawshank Redemption) are not able to handle release from prison.

Thing is, is that when you're released from prison (loss of material world attachment) - you don't need anything ... to achieve anything.

Sure a small amount of basic food, sunshine ... ... but you have nothing to achieve any longer.

The point was always to achieve freedom.

Once there - anything goes - of course as long as it's compatible with morality - which of course the moral/wise mind is founded upon.

Upon attaining wisdom one cannot choose to become a serial killer.

Enforced moral consistency.

It may be enforced (by 'fundamental substrate') but who cares ? As long as you're happy.

SB_UK
09-10-14, 10:23 AM
The big deal about this thread - leading in from the article above - is that pair-bond formation is part of the life-cycle but not the complete life-cycle.

Is it right that surviving partner dies when their pair-bonded partner dies ?

It's a romantic ideal - but - even the addiction (dopamine/oxytocin) enlisted by pair-bonding is a form of addiction which cannot be allowed to stand

- as the general message of religion states - it's all about turning to 'fundamental substrate' for your every need (reward).

(neurochemical) Reward mechanism activation.

-*-

Previously I've placed pair-bonding / enlightenment as alternatives - I'm switching it now to sequential procedures ie

-> -> -> pair-bond formation -> completion -> wisdom -> 'live free'

Note = path above isn't prescriptive - you've gotta' get to the end - the path above is just the path of least resistance ie easiest way there.

Go anyway you want as long as you get there.

You are not alive until yoy've defeated compulsion ie the need to do anything.

Once you are not compelled to do anything - you're free to do the right thing.

The right thing - to make the world as good as possible for future generations.

Why ?

Evolution looks to creating increasing informational complexity ... ... I know that the goal is to make the world as 'beautiful' or fun for others - because that's in line with the evolutionary imperative of increasing INFORMATIONAL entropy.

Not entropy (chemistry) but chaos (maths) - it's not about absence of structure but exquisite increasingly intricate patterns.

SB_UK
09-10-14, 10:37 AM
1. Born into society in which there is no physical distress - basic physiological necessities met ie food/shelter for all unconditionally.
Food*/Shelter all sustainable, natural.
*emphasis on MUFA ketosis, fasting
POINT 1 - ELIMINATE DISTRESS (physical and psychological components)

2. Education - rational / morality ie what *is* best for all people as the basis to education.
Work towards personal excellence - art, beauty, personal quality
POINT 2 - MAXIMISE EUSTRESS (physical and psychological components)

3. Optimise aerobic metabolism - aerobic exercise*.
* emphasis on endurance exercise - hitting and passing through the wall

3. Pair-bond formation starts (teen)

4. Pair-bond formation completion (thirties)

5. Wisdom acquisition (forties)
->-
You are now free to live.
You have nothing else to achieve.
Having prepared to die.

The human life-cycle

Where's the only key problem here ?

1. Born into society in which there is no physical distress - basic physiological necessities met ie food/shelter for all unconditionally.

We need a redefinition of global society from global economic system to global resource based economy where money is no longer supported.

The rest (see other points) will (as long as we know about them) follow naturally.

In fact - they'll probably come naturally even if you don't know about them ... ... but anyway ... ...

SB_UK
09-10-14, 11:13 AM
POINT 1 - ELIMINATE DISTRESS (physical and psychological components)


POINT 2 - MAXIMISE EUSTRESS (physical and psychological components)Point 1 relates primarily to removing aspects of society which compromise survival.
Generally relates to material world ie physical world concerns.
Generally relates to inappropriate food/shelter.
Though there's very real distress from inappropriate human interaction ie people demanding that you do pointless things (workplace, in education etc ... ...)

Point 2 relates to concentrating on factors which enhance quality of life.
Generally relates to informational world concerns.
Generally relates to the sensory realm ie the sense of seeing, hearing, touch, smell.

So:

material -> body
informational -> mind
spiritual -> spirit

THe 3 aspects of man - body, mind and spirit - spiritual state enters at the optimal set point for body (ketosis through fasting, exercise, vegan MUFA), mind (fields no logical inconsistencies) and spirit (actually representing frame of fundamental substrate, frame of boson - just a structural change which places us in synchrony/resonance with God).

SB_UK
09-10-14, 11:23 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSGl3d4KOMk

SB_UK
09-10-14, 11:30 AM
So the key idea is that one doesn't gain the freedom to be with multiple partners - it's that with 'freedom' - the individual loses all addictive propensities ie is no longer attracted to the reward system activation through sexual behaviour, or even reward system activation through pair-bonding

- it's actual freedom from compulsion for these things -

which does what to the man - woman relationship ?

Well - it remains ... ... ...

You're happy - you don't need compulsion to motivate behaviour.
The compulsions were there to propel you to freedom.

But won't marriages break down ?
No.

Why ?
With lack of compulsion there's no need to remain attached.

No - marriages won't break down.

Personally - I find that my wife and myself have occupied different complementary specialities which enhance life.
I can do what she can't do.
She can do what I can't do.

There's a neat complementarity which remains.

But is that love ?

The deal is that with attaining the spiritual state - you are in love.

Frame of fundamental substrate.

As somebody kinda' important stated:
"love God with all heart/soul/mind/strength And love thy neighbour"
- but they're kinda' tied as 2 people who independently attain synchrony with fundamental susbtrate will be in phase with one another ie they're re-stating the same basic idea.

mildadhd
09-10-14, 01:56 PM
Interesting thread.

I would like to think about and discuss more about lots of topics in this thread, these over the days.


Good-----vs-----Bad



Verses.



(to less)Bad----------Good(Homeostasis)Good----------Bad(to much)





Later


P

SB_UK
09-10-14, 02:28 PM
What would good be to man ?
A long life in the sun having secured freedom.

The scene where the 2 prisoners meet one another on the beach in Mexico in the Shawshank Redemption.

-*-

That's a fixed state.

There's no good or bad there - just 1 state which is more than sufficient.

But is there still good or bad ?

Would wisdom characterise people as good or bad ?

There's more logically consistent with group wellbeing and less logically consistent with group wellbeing ie somebody who makes peoples' lives better and another who makes peoples' lives worse ... ... but is that good and evil ?

No - post-wisdom - the individual is enforced to do good.
Pre-wisdom no matter what the individual does - it's evil.

That's harsh.

Why evil ?
Because to be good - the behaviour has to be validated against an engine which returns - this behaviour is good.
You don't get that engine until hitting wisdom - and so up until hitting wisdom we can't be absolutely sure that we're being good.

So wouldn't that be not good as opposed to evil ? in terms of all behaviours attempted pre-wisdom ?
Religion uses the idea of evil pre-wisdom ... ... but ... ...

Seems a bit harsh - but as far as I can see - anything pre-wisdom is not moral because it can't be if the individual has no power to define morality - and post-wisdom the individual is enforcedly moral ie has no capacity to be immoral.

The problem here is that we've a cultural idea of evil as being a mass murderer - but that's not really the definition of evil I'm looking at - it's more unenforced morality of behaviour. The mind hasn't cross-validated its behaviour against all others (by having a completed mind) - and so just can't be sure if it's being moral when it acts.

But how do you know if you are wise ?

You'll be as happy as anything in a quiet field in the silence in the sun for the rest of your life; no desire to talk.

It's the incessantly infuritatingly chatty ones who say nothing of any consequence who still have a way to go.

Monks unable to keep their vow of silence were separated from the rest and put in the monastery shop where they were free to chat endlessly to the clients.

SB_UK
09-10-14, 02:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7km4EHgkQiw

Why faith in a partner ?

As above - Why set your partner free if you love them ?

faith in a God is more usual usage ?

So -

pair-bond formation completion - final stage in human metamorphic cycle
gives way at enlightenment to
'If you love someone set them free'
Wisdom (belief, true faith) through losing material world attachment and giving oneself to fundamental substrate ie achieving resonant synchrony with a projecting monistic primordial eternal immanent 'something' which encodes the capacity to project itself via creative leaps of emergent evolution into hitherto unseen creations.

You know it's gonna' do it - cos that's what it does - but since it generates hitherto unseen perhaps unimaginably different creations ... ... perhaps it's best to do what we can do to see his will be done - in order to experience whatever it is that we know will happen - but which we can't be too sure what it'd be like.

What'd people like ?

I think to be able to let out a huge sigh of relief.

It's like waiting for something to happen and then nothing does - ever - just 'politicians seem like game show hosts to me'
- using words strategically defined to present complete absence in information content.

-*-

So

pair-bond
as conduit into
faith in God.

Faith (through partner (via 'if you love someone set them free')) in God as the point or more simply put -
'the point is to be happy'
Dalai Lama

SB_UK
09-10-14, 02:52 PM
Why is wisdom silent ?

Because what's there to say ?

Socrates would reflect the logic of sophists back at them without indicating his position.

Socrates had achieved wisdom - there's nothing to add when wise - just plenty to help to achieving the moral state - which is only accomplished by 'mind surgery'

- the wise mind surgeon.

SB_UK
09-10-14, 03:07 PM
What'd people like ?

I think to be able to let out a huge sigh of relief.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA46ZNjrzeY

Surely the world tires of weasly rentier parasitic capitalists ?

You will forever be subservient to people with more money than you.
And the more money an individual acquires - the more immoral they're forced to become with the exception of those who go out of their way to prepare to dump their money.

Morality can't enjoy money - it has transcended the reward system (primitive) which money requires to allow it to give the individual a sense of reward.

SB_UK
09-10-14, 03:20 PM
Why so many truly great songs with the same title as idea ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Q4wWViCUg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29TJbZmHUgo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA46ZNjrzeY

It came up on the horizon
Rising and rising
In a sea of honey, a sky of honey
A sea of honey, a sky of honey

Look at the light, all the time it's a changing
Look at the light, climbing up the aerial
Bright, white coming alive jumping off the aerial
All the time it's a changing, like now...
All the time it's a changing, like then again...
All the time it's a changing
And all the dreamers are waking. And the world shall live as oneWhat does the world shall live as one mean ?

An enforcedly moral species
- that'd mean that all people are logically compatible with one another - one collaborative family.

How ?

Reward mechanism activation through reflecting others.

This mechanism has been documented in primates.

IE only to feel reward when others feel reward.

Reward system activation ONLY via the mirror neurone system - the anterior cingulate cortex mirror neurones of the reward system.

Reflected reward.

That'd certainly make for an enforcedly social species
<- ADDer - Homo neosapiens sapienses.

SB_UK
09-10-14, 03:30 PM
Images of people going out of their way to help little old ladies across busy roads, and then sitting on the kerb a-waiting a-dopaminergic hit.

There won't be any roads in the future though - they're so 20th century - we can do much better than 'paving paradise and putting up a parking lot'.
Won't be any frail old ladies either.

Won't be any frail old ladies to cross busy roads.

SB_UK
09-11-14, 08:54 AM
So from above.

general point

Human attachment supplies oxytocin/dopamine <- cf eustress
Attachment failure supplies adrenaline/cortisol (chronic) <- cf distress

In the 6 or 7 point scheme in post # 11 above children are missing - but they of course slot into the scheme alongside Peripheral's comments about importance of attachment in first few years of life prior to mind/language coming on board.

The goal is eustress (definition changes from conception) till death (definition = wisdom)
- after which (ie in the enlightened/wise/loss of material world attachment stage) distress/eustress ie bad and good stress lose their meaning.
There's just a non-dual state of bliss.

SB_UK
09-11-14, 09:01 AM
OK - so what's missing ?

You can't do any of this in a society in which money (enforced inequality)
wikiP/wealth condensation
continues to exist.

[As well as love/desire for money]

Money feeds love/desire of money
- though love/desire of money will re-invent another construct of money if allowed to persist.

Love/desire of money represents primitive reward.
ADDer higher reward - mirroring the reward system of others is not consistent with the primitive reward system.

Meaning - that the ADDer is a novel type without the key feature of love/desire of money - as reward system - pre-programmed ready for discarding the system of money.

All that remains - is to discard money ie the emergence of ADHD entails that the only pre-requisite to discarding money ie the emergence of a type without reward system love/desire of money is satisfied.

SB_UK
09-11-14, 11:29 AM
or in the simplest possible language

- if money doesn't give you (the ADDer) any sense of reward - then money ceases to have a role in social cohesion.
All of which is really quite a pleasant observation to make - because the love/desire of money (or its loss) is a pointer to the loss of a reward system which can be described simply as not enforcedly moral/social ie 'competitive' drive in which some people suffer through loss.

The ADDer reward system permit any reward from competition in which the lose suffers through loss ... ... sure some people will be better than others at some things - and so they'll appear to do a little more than others in collaborative projects

- but so what ?

If everybody's having fun, feeling rewarded by their daily activities and are happy -
does it matter if one person writes a couple more lines of code than another ?