Not sure how the higher-ups will feel about my "post about a different post," I just hoped to direct a few of you to a particular discussion... A gentleman (who does not list himself as a neuroscientist on his profile) seems to have determined quite confidently that the concept of short-term memory problems resulting from ADD is a myth.

I'm an extreme case on this, so perhaps it's unsettling to me a bit more than it would be to some... I think it's best I follow some good advice, and not delve in too far before sleeping...I'm going to bed. Hope all is going well for everyone. :)

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=167685#post167685 (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=167685#post167685)

Chrys

Well, I was curious, so I followed the link. Honestly? I couldn't get through it because it was soooo long.

- So signed by this unmedicated ADHDer. LOL

Well is ADD actually a problem with short term memory if the things we "forget" were never actually registered as memories in the 1st place? Also, it's not like people with ADD lose thier short term memories. We just have trouble retrieving them.

From my own experiences and those of my clients the majority of issues that appear to be because of memory problems really aren't. For example: I don't really "forget" where I place by keys. I don't know where they are because when I put them down I was paying attention to something else at the time. Or when my husband is talking to me while I'm on the computer I don't forget what he said. It just never registered as a memory in the 1st place.

When I do go upstairs and forget why I went up there that is connect to memory though. Is is really a short term memory loss though? It's not like the memory just disappeared from a few minutes. If something "reminded' me or cued me about going upstairs the memory would pop back in my head.

Maybe better topics of discussion are:
What actually is memory and what does it really mean to forget?

Tara, I liked your reply.

For me, in addition to being distracted (like with the keys) not ever putting the information into memory seems to be directly proportional to the "boringness" factor of the information.
Like names and places and dates of historic events.

There's a bit of a stigma attached to the word "boring" as it relates to ADD.
My Dr. even said that when I remember things, it's because I'm interested in them--as if it's a willful choice.

But I would wager that as brain imaging and decoding of the images improves, we will learn that the problem with "boring" infomation for ADDers is that the brain actually turns off the memory function for types of data that are perceived to be repetitious, and not worthy of detailed input into the files of the brain's memory bank.

I don't know about most ADDers, but I get by with reinventing the wheel on many things others have memorized. Fortunately, I do remember the steps of invention.
And I do have my basic math memorized.

Does it seem to get worse with age? Like between 30 - 60?
Or is it related to Alzheimers?

That's a plausible concept, until you realize that a person forgets the following examples in one way or another:

(basic concepts of) women's studies (got a C and I'm supposed to be an advocate):faint: ,
(to watch) CSI, (not that I've watched TV, really, in the past few months)
a sweater she's half finished and is enamored with (with very expensive yarn),
how to get home (while trying to drive there):rolleyes:,
(to buy)Pop-Tarts,
(to buy)Dr. Pepper...
(to buy)whatever the H E double hockey sticks she went to the store for in the first place,
pretty much every dang thing she's interested in. :confused:
If it's not going "Mommy! Mommy!", I'm likely to forget something I adore.

If I were struggling with remembering, say, math, on its own, yes, I could certainly applaud your theory. However...this isn't all ADD, but it isn't all brain damage, either. And it can't just be me.
Chrys

Not just memory....( active working memory ) but a whole host of other mental functions. The relationship between adhd and active working memory was established long ago and the gentleman is "out to lunch"..."talking through his hat".."up the creek without a paddle" ...on this one.

Here is Dr. Russell Barkley on the subject. ->http://www.continuingedcourses.net/active/courses/course003.php

Yeah I'm skeptical about anyone who says "oh, those studies were invalid, not because of errors in their study or analyses, but because they didn't really know what they were investigating". The biochemical link between the chemicals implicated in ADD and memory is well known. Heck even the studies showed the link.

Yes, okay, if you define short-term memory in a very specific way, and a way that's different than most people's definition, then there might not be a link between ADD and short-term memory. But that's a really hackneyed way of looking at things.

It is my hypothesis, that a large part of the problem in ADD is that the lack of dopamine is directly implicated by way of "memory". It seems like dopamine exists, in part, to help certain nuerons fire more often. It's like the first stage of memory - something good happens, the dopamine feedback kicks in, and these neurons keep firing. This keeps you on task because the same area keeps being stimulated. So it acts before any serious neuron building can occur, almost as a kind of memory of the kind of task you're on. This is a little easier to understand if you understand nueral networks, something I only barely do thanks to my AI experience as a CS major.

If you've got ADD, this response is damped or otherwise doesn't work, so the nuerons stop firing prematurely and you're off on to something else. To most people this looks like a short term memory failure. You walk into a room but the mind is already on something else so you can't remember why you came in in the first place: because the area that got stimulated in the first place is now quiet. Often the only solution is to try to recreate the situation that created the idea so that area of the brain can get fired up again.