View Full Version : Why the mind can go blank in times of trauma


SB_UK
09-26-14, 04:01 PM
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/science/article4218183.ece
<- adhd all over this article

this paper referenced ->
http://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674%2814%2901107-6

Suggestion that

adder -> sensitive (noradrenaline produced) results in novel internal model generation ie creatively extending precedent.

A new internal model of reality.

Certainly - I can't remember anything that doesn't make sense ie names, dates ... ...

SB_UK
09-26-14, 04:02 PM
Presumably we're not going to be 'in the present' unless we can escape living in the past (memories).

Find that understanding is retained but knowledge is lost.

Any fool can know, the point is to understand

SB_UK
09-26-14, 04:11 PM
Stress driven deletion of memories relating to sub-standard model of reality
->
blank slate generated
->
Novel emergence - start again.

Minds being deleted (information lost?) because none of it's of any use.

sarahsweets
09-26-14, 05:07 PM
SB: since I'm unable to read all of the first article can you summarize it for me?

SB_UK
09-27-14, 04:38 PM
Will have it in front of me again on Monday
- hopefully paper not thrown away.

JJJJJJJJJJ
09-28-14, 12:33 AM
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/science/article4218183.ece
<- adhd all over this article

this paper referenced ->
http://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674%2814%2901107-6


I'm not familiar with the concepts discussed in the paper.

A close female friend has a long history of PTSD. In moments of emotional stress she might even "disassociate." There certainly was no hope of having a rational discussion once her PTSD was triggered.

She had a rough childhood emotionally and was a victim of a violent crime as a teen. However decades of psychological and spiritual counseling plus support groups were only moderately helpful to her.

It was not until I got into the heavy metal detox group and heard reports from so many people, especially women, with her symptom cluster that I realized she likely had adrenal insufficiency, probably especially secondary AI.

Strangely she had been going to an endocrinologist--the doctor for adrenals--for over ten years for thyroid meds but he did nothing for her list of hypoadrenal symptoms as long as her arm!

I got her to a functional medicine doctor and requested the tests A. Cutler suggests in his book Amalgam Illness for people with adrenal insufficiency symptoms and also chronic mercury symptoms.

Sure enough her pregnenolone--grandmother of steroid adrenal hormones-- was borderline low while taking 20mg per day. Her 4x saliva cortisol--stress etc hormone--was low almost the entire day except in the AM. Her AM blood cortisol test was also in the normal range. Maybe this is how other doctors missed or skirted the problem. Not surprisingly sex hormones downstream from adrenal hormones were low or low norm.

The hormone balancing along with the amino acid GABA worked wonders. She was able to have much greater access to her intellect in times of stress. Her mood is more consistently positive, etc!! She would not get lost while driving on the highway while surrounded by big trucks.


Certainly - I can't remember anything that doesn't make sense ie names, dates ... ...

I had poor memory for names and numbers most of my life, especially poor memory recall speed. I did well in school due to my solid logic skills. I found that support for acetylcholine has been helpful for my memory, even before I started heavy metal detox.

I had been working at the same company with 50 employees for a couple of years when Dr. Daniel Amen's associate suggested acetylcholine support for me. After a week or so of it I noticed that as I would turn a corner in a hallway at work, I now was able to recall names at a rate that was fairly average. I was not as quick as the bright young women in the accounting department, but I was no longer as slow as the oldest people in the building.

When I added Adderall and additional supplements shortly after, they seemed to provide additional help for my memory and ability to learn.

A few years later, after a year or so of heavy metal detox, I again noticed additional improvement. My new job involved meeting many new people. I did not need to make as much effort to remember names. I actually got compliments about my memory!!!

This probably made me more comfortable in social situations. I was not so fearful that I'd forget something simple and look really stupid. I became less introverted.

There's more in this post. (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1683890#post1683890)

SB_UK
09-29-14, 09:02 AM
ARTICLE BEGINS

Discovery of switch in brain whivh controls random behaviour couldpave the way fot treating ADHD.
Scientists prove existence of stochastic or random mode of decision making where animals act as though have no memories.
Although most of the time past experiences and patterns key to how animals later behave - researchers from HHMR prove sometimes useful to balnk them out.
In a paper published in Journal Cell - they argue udner stress or unfamiliar situations - animal survival optimised if act unpredicatably.
Academics found cound control how randomly rats made decisions by varying noradrenaline levles - a stress hormone in parts of the brain.
Part of brain associated strategic thinking and self control.

When rats stuck in random mode - could be returned to normal func. by simply cutting the level of the hormone in brain.

Structure they were examining = ACC - found in humans too!!

Not clear whether switch works analagously in humans to rats.

Karpova (author) - people find themselves in situations where forgetting what they know would be useful.

Karpove "I think that in our lives the need for this type of behaviour is broader than in competitive/survival situations alone"

"In novel situations making behaviour as random as possible uncovers new opportunities" - Karpova.

Karpova suggests link to creativity, depression, ADHD ... ... more work needed to test though etc

Karpova wants to test if "Different levels of NE in ACC correlate with compulsive ? creative ?"

Karpova "I'm interested to know whether altering NA which some drugs do - can assist decision making in helplessness conditions eg ADHD" ??

Karpova says her research can throw light on neg effects of ritalin.

Ritalin -> increase NE immediately -> however negative feedback loops -> suppress brain NE level production.

ARTICLE ENDS.

SB_UK
09-29-14, 09:08 AM
So - comment.

[1] We live in a crazy messed up world.
[2] Very little of what we do currently is of use.
[3] Let's just take law as an example - we've zillions of people (most common UK degree) who're filling their heads up with information which is of NO use.
So - with understanding of morality - creativity would have to result in deletion of useless information - and re-instatement of a novel (better) social model of reality which the individual then uses to great outcome.
[4] So - system would be:
(a) Youngster gains law degree and starts working
(b) With time to think about things - middle aged lawyer sees that s/he is one of the many problems in society ie causes them and doesn't alleviate them.
(c) Stress
(d) NA in ACC resulting in memory deletion and the creative generation of novel modes of living which're compatible with species survival.

Key notes

[1] Mention of ACC yet again
[2] Mention of NE (ADHD disorder = a triggered sensitivity to stress)
[3] Sensitivity at the level of mind towards immorality.

I certainly can't remember anything ie dates/times
- can only remember what makes sense - of course dates/times make no sense
-are arbitrary.
Do I want to remember dates/times ?

No - just want to exercise in the sun.

SB_UK
09-29-14, 09:21 AM
What's the general point I'm making ?

[1] What use are memories - reminded of the phrase -
Enstein 'any fool can know - the point is to understand'
You do not want to get trapped into a model of reality which 'knows' but absolutely need to be in one which 'understands'.
We live in a world where there're plenty of people who 'know' - but 'understanding' requires far less knowledge - and prunes knowledge.
Explain - The understanding that law is anti-social neatly prunes ALL of everything people know about law out of the human mind.
"Any fool can know - the point is to understand"

[2] ADHD = sensitivity to stress and in the case of disorder = triggered.
Why are we stressed ?
Because the human mind should be seeking to generate a way of life which is optimal for individual/species ? And we're not - the logical inconsistency (morality) deprived nature of human beings triggers our minds to release NE (stress hormone)
- deleting precedent and putting in place a new model for existence.

[3] Yes but - an incapacity to live in this world and an ability to realise the next world doesn't serve individuals who live in this world well.
Yes yes yes - as memory is deleted towards an alternative reality - an alternative way of living - one finds one's life here severely compromised.

[4] What's the relevance of the ACC ?
First thoughts are that 'individual memories' are being overruled via ACC from a species level construct of mind.
Wouldn't be easy to back this up - but the feeling is, is that the new model of mind is consistent with the species level model of mind - and so what's happening is our own redefinition via an ACC bridge into the 'Internet of minds' of our local operating system.

More simply - it's like a Windows OS wakes up as Chrome OS.
Apparently compromised at first - we soon realist that a distributed OS just doesn't break.

What do I mean by break ?
Break = Immorality (logical inconsistency with species wellbeing)

JJJJJJJJJJ
09-30-14, 06:17 PM
...
Ritalin -> increase NE immediately -> however negative feedback loops -> suppress brain NE level production.


Do the "negative feedback loops" kick in when the person is not making enough norepinphrine/noradrenaline and other catecholamines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catecholamine) or just when the effects of Ritalin + endogenous cats exceed a threshold?

Notes:
Trace amine and catecholamine biosynthesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Catecholamine_and_trace_amine_biosynthesis.pn g)
Some of them are available as OTC supplements.
This trace amine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-Methylphenethylamine) is very similar to amphetamine (Aderall)

SB_UK
10-01-14, 04:16 AM
Too much (nt) should downregulate sensitivity (reduce nt receptor level)
Too little (nt) should upregulate sensitivity (increase nt receptor level)

I think that's what homeostasis should attempt.

So ... ... we're back around to the basic idea in neuro / endocrinology of the class of illegal drugs which must be taken in higher and higher levels in order to drive the same basic high.

But the more one desensitizes the system - the more one becomes dependent on them.

Or - homeostasis has accommodated for habitual high drug availability - doesn't realise that it's the individual pouring in silly levels of bioactive compounds into the body - just 'sees what it sees' - and downregulates accordingly.

So negative feedback as the key homeostatic mechanism in neuro / endocrinology as the same mechanism whereby illegal drug seekers demand more and more drugs with time.

SB_UK
10-01-14, 04:22 AM
Do the "negative feedback loops" kick in when the person is not making enough norepinphrine/noradrenaline and other catecholamines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catecholamine) or just when the effects of Ritalin + endogenous cats exceed a threshold?

Notes:
Trace amine and catecholamine biosynthesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Catecholamine_and_trace_amine_biosynthesis.pn g)
Some of them are available as OTC supplements.
This trace amine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-Methylphenethylamine) is very similar to amphetamine (Aderall)

PEA and tyrosine make frequent appearances here.

Tyrosine seemed to me (I've a thread on ADDF here trying it) to work in a similar way to dexedrine.

I guess shunting Phenylalanine into PEA and away from Tyrosine would be a good idea.

Am reminded of this idea:
Simply stated, ketone body metabolism by the brain displaces glucose utilization and thus spares muscle mass.http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/3/1/9

Reduced need for amino acids when in ketosis ?
Basic switch from anabolic (requiring amino acids/protein) to maintenance (not requiring aa) ... ...

Wonder whether we're looking at ketosis switching (favouring) phenylalanine (conversion) into everybody's favourite nt PEA.

someothertime
10-01-14, 08:06 AM
perhaps more like an OS that wakes from sleep with processes here there and everywhere ( orphaned ) and has no idea what OS it is.....

the emotional response is one we know. it is primitively programmed to circumvent and persist behind and on top of the skewed cognitive process... part of which morality can serve to stir and unsettle....

presence. if one struggles to connect imposed stimili.... then an affront it may be..... and duly.... dissocciative coping strategies develop and persist. they are a sheild and a filter..... initially..... sadly though...... they quickly become catalysts for situational skew and further lack of presence.....

so...... foods for cognition..... yes....... now...... presence...... acheivable...... a perpetual intent...... i just wish that would come with the realisations and connections from yesterday.....

SB_UK
10-01-14, 09:44 AM
perhaps more like an OS that wakes from sleep with processes here there and everywhere ( orphaned ) and has no idea what OS it is.....

the emotional response is one we know. it is primitively programmed to circumvent and persist behind and on top of the skewed cognitive process... part of which morality can serve to stir and unsettle....

presence. if one struggles to connect imposed stimili.... then an affront it may be..... and duly.... dissocciative coping strategies develop and persist. they are a sheild and a filter..... initially..... sadly though...... they quickly become catalysts for situational skew and further lack of presence.....

so...... foods for cognition..... yes....... now...... presence...... acheivable...... a perpetual intent...... i just wish that would come with the realisations and connections from yesterday.....

Since learning is required to redefine self ie we're not the same person we were at 4 years of age ... ... and since self is lost with wisdom

- perhaps the redefinition of an OS (Windows) into a state that we've no prior experience of (Chrome) might make sense.

We try and run an update but can't do it locally.

Enforced moral consistency ?

We can make the local machine run some software faster at the expense of making our files unreadable to other machines - and find that we're not permitted this selfish pleasure.