View Full Version : Morning depression, anyone?!


Karamo
10-01-14, 06:25 PM
I am sick and tired of this. Mostly tired.

So, regardless of where I am in life and regardless of where the clock and my circadian rhythm have decided to do their thing I have never, ever woken up not being depressed as shít.

Now, I don't mean "tired, irritable and a bit blue" like I guess most people feel, I mean zombie mode, where my brain won't function or "snap into place" for, and I would never jest, 4-6 hours. During this very same time I am depressed beyond belief; I don't feel that life is worth living. A depression so severe that it totally switches off any motivational stimuli. This last approximately as long as the zombie daze.

After that I slowly, over the course of the same amount of hours start to rise in mood and I don't risk falling asleep standing.

My mood peaks after having been awake for at least 12 hours. This is where I feel a wee bit motivated to "get started with stuff tomorrow". You know; "tomorrow I WILL hit the gym" or "tomorrow I WILL pick up the guitar" or "tomorrow I WILL get out of bed and actually eat dinner".

I don't do those things when I actually have a rise in mood because my body is by then too tired to even sit up, and the time is usually when I should go to sleep (I need to sleep 10-12 hours a night).

This has been my life ever since I was a little kid. The depression kicked in a bit later than the über fatigue, at around 14-15.

Anyone else?

I read that levels of postsynaptic noradrenaline are the highest approximately 45 minutes after waking up in the mornings. Sure as hell doesn't seem that way to me.

This is pretty much the main reason why I can never factor out the significance of eventually giving in to using CS. But I also know that the effect on being awake/reduction of fatigue wanes MUCH faster than the effects on ability to focus et cetera.

inb4; routine meals and exercise only slightly elevated mood during the evening but it also made me more tired, which people seem to find weird.

Shlarin
10-01-14, 06:33 PM
I have a job that starts at 6:30am which means the sun is always down when I get up (except for a brief period around the summer solstice.) I feel exactly how you feel. Most people seem to think something is astray with my biology as they tend to associate being depressed with the time right before bed but barring external circumstances, I rarely feel most depressed at that time of day.

Unless I've gotten up without an alarm or a schedule, I almost always get up feeling depressed but recover to a "normal" mode within an hour or two. This even includes days when I don't have to work but have to be somewhere at a certain time early in the morning, so I often try not to schedule things in the morning if possible.

Karamo
10-01-14, 06:37 PM
I have a job that starts at 6:30am which means the sun is always down when I get up (except for a brief period around the summer solstice.) I feel exactly how you feel. Most people seem to think something is astray with my biology as they tend to associate being depressed with the time right before bed but barring external circumstances, I rarely feel most depressed at that time of day.

Unless I've gotten up without an alarm or a schedule, I almost always get up feeling depressed but recover to a "normal" mode within an hour or two. This even includes days when I don't have to work but have to be somewhere at a certain time early in the morning, so I often try not to schedule things in the morning if possible.

I see... Could be a melatonin issue, but it just wouldn't be that severe is that was the case...

For me it doesn't matter if I sleep in, or if I have to rise and shine when my clock goes off - Still the same result, for the same amount of time.

Now, since I live on the bottom floor, I have the curtains drawn at all times so I can't say for sure whether sunlight is a partial culprit or not but I sincerely doubt that - here in Sweden most mornings throughout the year are pitch black so... ;)

Crosswired
10-01-14, 07:39 PM
I know that morning depression well. Nothing more miserable than a Monday morning in the middle of January and it's minus 20 and pitch dark. You know that in Sweden too!

carter4
10-01-14, 08:46 PM
it sounds like to me you are sleeping too much. an adult needs 8 hours or less, and you are sleeping 9 to 10 hours. look up oversleeping. oversleeping can cause fatigue and depression.

if that doesn't solve the problem you sound like you should be on anti depressants.

Karamo
10-01-14, 09:21 PM
it sounds like to me you are sleeping too much. an adult needs 8 hours or less, and you are sleeping 9 to 10 hours. look up oversleeping. oversleeping can cause fatigue and depression.

if that doesn't solve the problem you sound like you should be on anti depressants.

Hah, I've tried sleeping less many times over the years, forcing it to become a habit. Unfortunately it never worked and with less than 10 hours of sleep my head is so foggy that I start to sound stupid. Also I can nod off as soon as I sit down which is very troublesome =p

And anti-depressants have never worked for me if we're talking SSRI's that is. Wellbutrin worked but it causes long-term cognitive impairment which in many cases is permanent so I stopped immediately after I found out. I would never gamle with my mind. Venlafaxine which is primarily a serotonin and noradrenaline-acting anti-depressant worked for me in higher doses due to it's dopaminergic component above 200~ mg/day. However the excessive sweating and the extreme acne problem it caused forced me to hop that one :/

My depression, as well as my fatigue are the consequences of a severe defficiency in postsynaptic dopamine. That is most likely why CS causes a crash beyond belief as well.

Unfortunately there is no way to raise dopamine levels without the brain trying to downregulate, in order to maintain it's equilibrium, it's "balance". So in that department I'm most likely effed ;P

HADDaball
10-02-14, 05:56 AM
did you stop recently?

JJJJJJJJJJ
10-02-14, 06:44 PM
So, regardless of where I am in life and regardless of where the clock and my circadian rhythm have decided to do their thing I have never, ever woken up not being depressed as shít.

... I mean zombie mode, where my brain won't function or "snap into place" for, and I would never jest, 4-6 hours. During this very same time I am depressed beyond belief; I don't feel that life is worth living....

...

And anti-depressants have never worked for me if we're talking SSRI's that is. Wellbutrin worked but it causes long-term cognitive impairment which in many cases is permanent so I stopped immediately after I found out. I would never gamle with my mind. Venlafaxine which is primarily a serotonin and noradrenaline-acting anti-depressant worked for me in higher doses due to it's dopaminergic component above 200~ mg/day. However the excessive sweating and the extreme acne problem it caused forced me to hop that one :/

A male friend was very much like you. He could not get going until around noon. He also was on other psych meds for anxiety and depression. Amazingly Adderall kicked in really nicely for him and allowed him to go off the other meds.

He was not able to tolerate almost any supplements due to chemical sensitivities--they would start to work as expected then result in a panic attack.


...
My depression, as well as my fatigue are the consequences of a severe defficiency in postsynaptic dopamine. That is most likely why CS causes a crash beyond belief as well.

Unfortunately there is no way to raise dopamine levels without the brain trying to downregulate, in order to maintain it's equilibrium, it's "balance". So in that department I'm most likely effed ;P

Are you *really* sure that modest doses of ADD/Catecholamine depression support plus supplements taken several times per day to keep levels stable would cause serious "downregulation"?

How is it that dopamine and norepinephrine in "healthy" people don't cause downregulation to happen!

I touched on the issue as it relates to my case here. (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165734)

Re Melatonin. When a friend and I take too much we wake up feeling hung over without the upset stomach. Do you take melatonin or any of the precursors--5htp, etc.

Re Sunlight. Have you had your vitamin D checked? Do you consume enough sources of Omega 3 fatty acids? I assume you consume plenty of fish.

Have you ever tried phenylalanine + multi vitamin containing some iron + multi B containing some B12 several times per day? ADD supplement support can be more complex than that but they are probably the basics.

Do you have other symptoms of adrenal insufficiency? Have you ever had blood cortisol or 4x saliva cortisol tests?

XXYYXX
10-08-14, 01:22 AM
Did you try looking up 5-HTP - helps with serotonin production or how about St. John's Wort?

Caution - may cause serotonin syndrome if prescribed SSRY