View Full Version : My poor nervous little girl..


Stevuke79
10-15-14, 02:15 PM
DD, 6 years old, came with me to a local guitar store and saw a small 3/4 size pink Fender electric. Daddy, can little girls play guitar TOO??. Yes, would you like to try guitar lessons? No, I just want the guitar and to play it in my own random way and have fun. (<-- love that!!) And the conversation went on and on.

She has gone back and forth about lessons. I'll try when I'm 9. No, when I'm 10.. She asks all the time about getting a guitar for her own and has taken a keen interest in my guitar and likes to pluck the strings and watch me play. She happened to be with me in a guitar store more recently and finally she said she wanted to try lessons. We waited to see if the interest and courage held - she still wanted lessons. She comes home from school yesterday and I tell her I found a music teacher, and we're going to try it next week on Thursday, .. don't be nervous (I knew she would be) I'll be there the whole time. We're just going to try it. Lots of kids try when they're you're age and sometimes they want to take a break and they try again when they're 10 and then they're great at it. We're just doing to see if you like it.

She walks quickly and silently straight upstairs to her room. A few minutes later she comes down and tells my wife with a red tear streaked face, I want to talk about something, .. just with you. They go up to her room and 10 minutes later she comes down and says shortly and robotically: I don't want guitar lessons. No problem. Whatever you want.

My wife tells me she was in her room crying her eyes out that she was scared of lessons but she really really really really wants to play a guitar. After a day of bike riding and other conversations, at dinner I say to my wife, ..so I called the guitar teacher and said that actually my daughter doesn't want lessons,.. she just wanted to play with a guitar. He said no problem,.. and then he said that lots of people just want to play with a guitar,.. so for them, they let them come to the music store and get sized up for a guitar,.. then they have someone who just shows them how to play with the guitar and get little musical sounds out of it. And he sits with them and they play along to music and just sit and make fun sounds with it for a while,.. but those people don't actually get any "lessons" per se. He said we should call back if any of us might want to try that... DD cuts me off: Can I do that I want that. (notice no punctuation. that's not a typo - there was no pause.)

Then at bed time she said to me she really actually wants lessons but she's so so scared. Well what are you scared of? I don't even know.. Some times I'm scared and I don't know why too.

Are you afraid it will be too hard and you wont be able to do it?
Pfft!!! (rolls her eyes as if to say, "I hope that was a joke, DAD!!:mad:
Sorry, you're right and I was out of line. Are you afraid it wont be as fun as you think? No. Are you afraid of being in a new place with a new teacher and all kinds of new things going on that will make you very nervous. Big sad eyes and a frown as she nods her head. I know I'm going to be so scared!!

We talked about it,.. she's ok. I told her: I'll be there the whole time... .. And will your phone be off the whole time? (I hesitated,.. just kidding ;)) Yes, I wont even bring it in,.. and it'll be just like karate.. where she eventually warmed up and she had a great time.

Has anyone else seen such a nervous 6 year old? Poor kid.. Is this a sensory disorder? Does she need to be evaluated. I mean I'm pretty sure she's perfect, .. but is this common for other parents?

stef
10-15-14, 03:58 PM
I was somewhat like this
and these are the things that neither of my parents, although really i had a happy childhood, ever understood (although i believe my father was somewhat like this), and i would try to explain to my mom and she would get so frustrated.

Your daughter is so lucky to have someone who understands!!!

Stevuke79
10-15-14, 04:11 PM
Thanks stef! :D I was just like her too.. and I always thought it was my crappy homelife.. and now I see these traits in her .. I'm like SHYGHT!!!

Fuzzy12
10-15-14, 04:58 PM
I was a bit like this as well, still am in some aspects. For me it was mainly a social thing and worrying about being accepted by other kids.

Anyway, again, i think you handled it perfectly. Reassuring, understanding and at the same time encouraging.

I think that play session in the shop sounds perfect. Maybe once she has a guitar she ll feel more confident because then at least not everything will be completely new.

Stevuke79
10-15-14, 05:03 PM
Right,.. I made it all up by the way,.. I didn't call the teacher (sorry, I thought that was clear) .. I'm just going to call him and tell him that we're not calling it a lesson.

And then of course at the end (last paragraph) she said she wants a lesson as long as I'm there the whole time and have my phone off.:)

Fuzzy12
10-15-14, 05:12 PM
I get it not! Brilliant:eek:

namazu
10-15-14, 06:34 PM
I feel for her!


I was more excited than fearful about starting lessons for piano (and later violin). But there were a number of times that I was reduced to tears due to either being "yelled at" (lectured sternly?) or feeling ashamed because I hadn't practiced or kept forgetting what I was supposed to do.

The teacher makes a big difference, as well. Need someone who's laid back and willing to let the kid go at their own pace...encourage practicing and good form but not be strict about it.

Another thought -- there are numerous videos / DVDs of intro guitar lessons, including some geared towards kids, I think. If it turns out that in-person "not-lessons" are too much for her, this might be a way for her to experiment at her own speed, without anyone scrutinizing her performance.

LynneC
10-15-14, 06:35 PM
Right,.. I made it all up by the way,.. I didn't call the teacher (sorry, I thought that was clear) .. I'm just going to call him and tell him that we're not calling it a lesson.

And then of course at the end (last paragraph) she said she wants a lesson as long as I'm there the whole time and have my phone off.:)
I'd still call him and tell him it's not a lesson...;)
Have you tried to teach her a little bit on your own?

Stevuke79
10-15-14, 07:21 PM
I'd still call him and tell him it's not a lesson...;)

DEFINITELY going to do that. Yup!! In a sense I wanted to check with DD first ;) ;).

Have you tried to teach her a little bit on your own?

No,.. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that's a bad idea. My understanding is that parents usually tend to think they are better teachers than they actually are.. I know learning to drive from my mom was one of the worst experiences of my life,.. but learning from a teacher was a breeze.

sarahsweets
10-16-14, 04:35 AM
ok Steve bear with me on this one and don't be offended.....
I know when I was a kid I was considered a nervous nelly. This was an issue before I was diagnosed with anything. The environment I lived in had loads to do with it. Mind you I had some abuse and stuff like that, but as far as my home life there was a lot of unspoken disagreements and parental polarization that I picked up on. What I mean is my mother would have a parenting style that was pretty good but then my father got involved and it turned into never being good enough and doing things his way for no other reasons than just because. He became jealous of the way my mother and I got on. He tried subliminally to get in between my mother a and I to destabilize the relationship more in his favor. Now I only bring this up because of things you've shared about the relationship between your daughter and your wife. Is it possible that she fears letting her mom down or disappointing her so much that its giving her some anxiety? I'm not saying its your wife's fault or even that I'm right. I just wonder if thats a possibility.

TygerSan
10-16-14, 05:21 AM
For me the issue was always starting something new. The unknown and the anticipation of discomfort were enough to make it so that I was afraid to try. Once I was through the door and engaged, I was generally ok. (I should note that in still like this as an adult to a certain extent.)

Often times my excitement would overcome the anxiety and I'd be okay. Other times that didn't work. My parents sometimes would basically just shove me through the door. In a way that probably was for the best, but it was a bit traumatic at the time. Problem is, talking about it rationally wouldn't have solved the issue cuz I knew it wasn't rational, even as a kid, and the anticipation was the killer. Distraction probably would've worker better, honestly.

TheDreamer
10-16-14, 07:11 AM
My daughter (8) is like this too. And so was I (in a way still am...). I found it helped a lot for her to go with a friend. Not a pattern that is always possible, and certainly there is strength to be found from managing to do this by oneself...but sometimes there is comfort in numbers.

tripleE
10-16-14, 01:30 PM
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--> My daughter has always been like this starting something new. Consistently. So what we do is for each new thing we will say just try it for a bit (if it's really important, like swimming lessons) or like you are doing we will just let her come to it in her own time. We also use the phrase “what’s likely to happen” (rather than “what’s the worst that can happen?”)


Every new thing she has "tried for a bit" has been ok. Or if not ok then we don’t push. But 90% of the time it’s that threshold of a new thing, the unknown, and once she steps over it, she’s just existing in the moment as she does so beautifully and she’s fine.



She’s 12 now. She has ADHD and Sensory Processing Disorder (although the sensory stuff is mild now, was more of an issue when she was younger). We just moved to a new city/new school and, once the first day of school happened, she’s been fine (although very anxious leading up to that first day, understandably).
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Stevuke79
10-20-14, 11:36 AM
ok Steve bear with me on this one and don't be offended.....
..Now I only bring this up because of things you've shared about the relationship between your daughter and your wife. Is it possible that she fears letting her mom down or disappointing her so much that its giving her some anxiety? ..

I'm not offended at all,.. and you may be surprised to hear this but I don't think it's my wife. But I DO think you are essentially correct and have an astute view of the situation, but I actually think it's ME she's afraid to disappoint.

She knows we both love when she does stuff. She also knows that we both love when she's really good at it.. and we both push her when it's hard or when she's struggling or frustrated. And for all of those things, between me and my wife, I am BY FAR the worst offender.

It may be hard for you to see this based on what I've shared, and yes I get along better with DD, and yes it's because in a way I'm more easy going, .. but not "easy going" in the way that you think. I'm more able to see through the emotion of everything and not get caught up in it,.. and find a creative way to calm everyone down and find a lesson for DD and a way to address whatever melt down in our parenting...

BUT when it comes to expectations and helping DD be all she can be, I am a hard-aasss. My dad was with me and it was for the best and I feel like he was that way for the SAME REASON I am with DD,.. because I, and not my wife (my dad, and not my mom),am the one who knows:
1. How smart this kid really is (conceited, I know)
2. Know how lazy, frustrated and over-reactive she is - and I know she has to learn to manage it or she'll have a terrible life.

And in my story, DD said, "I want to talk to mommy and not daddy"... and neither me or my wife we surprised.

So I think you accurately diagnosed the problem,.. but you got the wrong parent. ;) ;)

Rainbows
10-20-14, 07:08 PM
I hope your dd is able to get through the" lesson" ok and have fun! I think it could be a little of everything, she can be nervous of something new, even if she likes it,she doesnt want to disappoint you, and maybe, she doesnt want to disappoint herself. My daughter , I think is very nervous as well for multiple reasons, Dr said she has Anxiety but also possible High Functioning Aspie ( just recent talk) testing is possible shes still doesnt want it on her record long story).

My daughter loved playing with pianos when she was little, my granpa paid for lessons which she was happy but not about going. She ended up not wanting to go for whatever reason but his saying was if she didnt go he wouldnt pay for her private school and she didnt want to leave her school so she stayed. But she was amazing and picked it up so fast! I know you both arent forcing her, your leaving it up to her, I think its great. Its hard to know if and when we should push them a little huh?

Not saying this is the reason for your daughter, sometimes its hard to tell, it could be just shes shy? I wish you luck and keep updating :)

sarahsweets
10-21-14, 04:24 AM
Steve I wish I had worded that better b because it sounded like I think your wife is horrible and the person to blame for everything which I don't think. I guess I was just wondering if she felt the need to live up to her mother's expectations as a "woman" meaning she sees her mom as this strong,free thinking,tackle everything, mother. I know for me,as much as I wanted to please my parents, and as much as I had daddy issues it was my mom that I wanted to please- I put her on a pedestal.

Stevuke79
10-21-14, 05:43 AM
Sarah, seriously it didn't sound like that. I promise. It sounded like you were suggesting a very common and reasonable parenting problem, and that you were doing it as carefully as possible.

She does look up to mommy. Maybe you're right on second thought. She wants to be what my wife does for a living when she grows up. Usually she wants to prefer what mommy prefers and not what daddy prefers. I usually think of myself as the one who demands too much of her, but perhaps she was afraid of letting down her mommy in some other way.

I'm also inclined to think it's the opposite though because when she wanted to "discuss it" she felt more comfortable talking to mommy, ya know.

But anyway, you didn't sound accusative or unfair at all.

dvdnvwls
10-21-14, 06:34 AM
I'm not a parent, but I do teach music lessons to kids.

I'm convinced there's always a good reason when a child is nervous - and I'm also pretty sure we adults usually don't know the reason, and are horribly clumsy at finding it out, and that if we do manage to get that far we usually don't have the skill or sensitivity to do very much about it.

In 25 years, I have never once met a lazy kid. I don't believe they exist. I've certainly met many who wished they were somewhere else, and that generally makes anyone appear lazy.

It's called playing the guitar, not working the guitar - and that's no accident. :) I strongly suggest that parents of young music students leave their achievement-oriented attitudes, worthy goals, and parental dreams somewhere outside my door. Not so that the students can do this "just for fun" (ugh I detest that phrase in this context), but so that the students and I can do what needs to be done without the parents "on our backs".

There's a (maybe fine?) line for parents between support and pushiness; I think maybe the best way to see that line is to keep in mind that the reason for lessons is "to play the guitar", not "to achieve a guitar-related goal".

Your daughter already knows you think she's lazy. She also (almost certainly correctly) knows that she isn't. Reconsidering that one thing could make a positive difference in your relationship with her.

Stevuke79
10-21-14, 09:51 AM
I'm not a parent, but I do teach music lessons to kids.
..
It's called playing the guitar, not working the guitar - and that's no accident. :) I strongly suggest that parents of young music students leave their achievement-oriented attitudes, worthy goals, and parental dreams somewhere outside my door. Not so that the students can do this "just for fun" (ugh I detest that phrase in this context), but so that the students and I can do what needs to be done without the parents "on our backs".

I think you're right and I'm consciously not making that mistake. I thought about my dad who loved playing guitar as a kid but his teacher insisted that he only learn classical - he hasn't touched a guitar in at least 40 years. I don't think his appreciation of the classics was worth it.

When I interviewed the music teacher I basically said, "you're not gonna try to teach my kid how to keep time, or what a quarter-rest is, or how to read notes, right? .. I want you to just put her hands on the instrument as soon as possible and show her how to get a sound out of it - and then just let her do that till her heart's content. So the kid can enjoy holding this big pink cool-lookin thing and enjoy a relationship with it similar to her bicycle. There's learning involved with the bike too - but we manage to deemphasize it.

He said, "yes". (Then I realized I should have asked him open ended and then seen what he actually said. oh well)

I'm convinced there's always a good reason when a child is nervous - and I'm also pretty sure we adults usually don't know the reason, and are horribly clumsy at finding it out, and that if we do manage to get that far we usually don't have the skill or sensitivity to do very much about it...

It's true.

I'm lucky; I think DD is very good at thinking about her feelings and expressing them; she's also very good at realizing when she doesn't know what she feels - which blows me away. (I think she's great at this for a 6 year old - she probably has a lot of 40 year olds beat too.) It's the thing that I praise and reward the most when she does it - when she says, I feel "x" or I'm nervous but I don't know why,.. stuff like that. We've seen this develop in her - she can describe feeling conflicted, confused, .. and I'm lucky in that I don't feel I have to know what she's feeling or why. She's very good at telling me.

Your daughter already knows you think she's lazy. She also (almost certainly correctly) knows that she isn't. Reconsidering that one thing could make a positive difference in your relationship with her.

I don't think she's lazy. I don't think that she thinks that I think that she's lazy.


(I see that I wrote "I know how lazy she is" before - in context the sentence entire was about giving up because of fear and frustration. Perhaps I shouldn't have put the word lazy in there. But there is a certain propensity to give things up because of poor emotional management "in the moment" that I feel it's worth helping her recognize and overcome in her longer term decisions. People have told me I'm crazy - but I find this is appropriate thinking for her, even at 6.)

I could be wrong - but I think she knows that she is very hard working and tenacious. I think that's why she's nervous. She knows who she is - she knows that I know. I think that's scary. I had a lot of fear around the fact that my dad knew how smart I was - I very often preferred my mom for these kinds of things. She just thought I was brilliant - and if I failed to work at something, she just felt that was the limit of my brilliance. I don't think her approach was healthy.

They say that you shouldn't praise kids by saying, "You're a natural at this, .. you're so talented, .. you're so smart.." as much as you should praise, "You are so good at this,.. you worked so hard, .. you practiced .. that was frustrating but you really stuck with it."

I say these things - and I think that's a good thing. BUT it puts a lot of pressure on her. She does it a lot. I praise it a lot. That's a lot of pressure. (The theory is that it puts LESS pressure than if I were to say, "you're so talented, .. you're so smart" .. I'm praising the effort. The presence. The attempt. NOT the goal or the outcome itself. But there is still pressure.)

I think you're very wise to realize that we shouldn't pressure our kids to be good at something per se or to do something for our reasons and not theirs - and I think it's even more impressive that you're sensitive to these things even though you're not a parent. Before I was a parent I had read up like crazy on all of this - and I thought that I could manage to have my child feel no pressure and perfectly free to experience the world at their own pleasure, .. and I felt I could do this simply by telling them that's so, not pressuring them and doing everything "right".

I've found the reality to be far more complicated.

dvdnvwls
10-21-14, 04:03 PM
Steve, thanks, that makes sense. The reality of the situation is indeed complicated, and there have to be many factors for your family that I'll never know. I'm still pretty insistent that laziness in children is by and large just not a valid concept, not even from a "parent's eye view" - at least, not in the kinds of situations where it's likely to be applied by a modern urban parent.

The main reason I continue that line is this: If a kid is thought to be lazy, that tends to turn every potentially difficult situation into an impasse that can only be solved by brute force, either by a massive effort from the lazy person or vicariously through those who are trying to help. A more nuanced and accurate understanding of a situation allows the child (or those who are helping) to be strategic and intelligent instead of blindly trying harder.

It may help in this regard to distinguish (in your own mind at least) between the kinds of situations where hard work brings tangible results (such as digging a ditch) and where it doesn't (such as playing an instrument). Brute force moves more earth out of the ditch and brings quicker success; brute force on the guitar, or brute force inside the mind of the guitar player, actually reduces the chance for success.

In situations that require force, "don't be lazy" has a chance of improving the outcome. Otherwise, maybe something more like "find the smart easy way to do this". We've all at some time envied the person who makes it look easy - maybe find ways to help your daughter learn to be that person.

In that context, praising "effort in general" starts to look actually counterproductive.

Regarding praise, there's also a special (swift and severe) kind of law of diminishing returns: when praise reaches a certain level, it causes an implosion of confidence and a sharp increase in nervousness, because the child learns to stop listening to their own internal regulation and anxiously await the verdict of others. I have students who are habitually already looking at me, all anxious eyes and blank minds, before they even finish playing a song. I've come to believe that highly sensitive kids can only stand very tiny amounts of praise before they tune out their own brains and flip into anxious "did I do good?" mode.

Stevuke79
10-21-14, 05:18 PM
..I'm still pretty insistent that laziness in children is by and large just not a valid concept, ..

I don't know if it's a valid concept or not, but I don't think my child is lazy. More important, and more to your point - she doesn't not think that we consider her lazy.

In that context, praising "effort in general" starts to look actually counterproductive.

I think you're saying that it's very important to be careful what we are praising and reinforcing. I agree. I don't think it can be overemphasized, and I think we often inadvertently reinforce things that we shouldn't.

when praise reaches a certain level, it causes an implosion of confidence and a sharp increase in nervousness, because the child learns to stop listening to their own internal regulation and anxiously await the verdict of others.

I think to your point about your students - praise can become an acknowledgement that they have made YOU happy, where of course what we want to teach them is to make THEM happy.

I don't think most people notice that and you sound like a good teacher for doing so. I find myself in a nearly constant state of introspection about these issues. I 100% agree with your pointing all out.

But in this case, I think DD has done a good job of identifying the source of her nervousness. She told us: being in a new place, new teacher, nervousness, anxiety, sensory overload, feeling lost and out of place - and more than anything I praise when she can introspect like that.

But you're right in other cases that it has to do with the messages I inadvertently send. I think your message is well taken and definitely applies to me. For instance, I'm the kind of dad that used to relish cheering for DD and "being in her corner". And whenever I had the privilege to be in he audience, I would cheer and clap and all that (notice this is past tense).

When DD was 3 years old she asked me to NOT COME to her pre-school graduation ceremony because my cheering made her feel distracted and nervous. BOOOMMMM!!!. And this is where even at 3 years old, it's still hard to make sure your message is about her, not you.

So this is an example of where my message (a common paternal message and one that most people would think was very sweet) was having the wrong affect. And your right, our own feelings and our own self image makes it hard to keep that in focus. In the end she said I could be there, .. but only if I not cheer and not even clap. Deal.

But I think you're seeing feelings of "laziness" here where they don't exist.

jess30
10-21-14, 09:09 PM
This reminds me of an experience aged 9. My teacher used to teach me and 2 others extra stuff, we lapped it up. He would always check first if we were comfortable with it. Then one day he introduced a new maths concept (long division?) and I opted out. I always remember walking away and back to my desk. I knew I had just given up without even trying. The pain is still raw.
Why did I do it? It certainly wasn't laziness. I think it was because my mum really only ever praised me for one thing - my flawless school reports. I based my sense of self-worth on that. I didn't get praised for trying even when I thought I would fail. So I never tried anything unless I thought I could do it and do it really well.
She wanted me to become an accomplished pianist like herself. I enjoyed lessons for a long time, but when it started getting harder, she seemed surprised that her 'talented' daughter would find it 'hard'. It seemed like she then gave up on me.

To summarise: Too high expectations (especially by a parent) of a sensitive child will only teach them to play it safe and stay in their comfort zones for the rest of their lives.

UNLESS someone teaches them that the important part is that they learn it's 100% OK to have to keep trying, keep coming back to it and having another shot until they get there.

I hope this helps you in some way. I know my mum loved me anyway but she was understandably very stressed and probably didnlt have the time to work things out.

I should also say I thought itwas BRILLIANT to call it 'Showing them how to make a fw fun sounds, not a 'Lesson'!

jess30
10-21-14, 09:31 PM
when praise reaches a certain level, it causes an implosion of confidence and a sharp increase in nervousness, because the child learns to stop listening to their own internal regulation and anxiously await the verdict of others.

I only just noticed this. That sums up what I was trying to get at in my post.

So how do you teach a child to become more aware of their own internal regulation?

Stevuke79
10-21-14, 10:47 PM
Why did I do it? It certainly wasn't laziness. I think it was because my mum really only ever praised me for one thing - my flawless school reports. I based my sense of self-worth on that.

I think this goes back to the question: What are we reinforcing?
If I can share one thing that I think we've done very with, and it has resulted in very good behavior from an otherwise highly volatile ADHD child - we actually encourage her an praise her for thinking about what she wants.

If you encourage hard work then they may want to bash their head against the wall even when it's not in their best interest.. if you praise talent, they will want to be good at things right away, .. if you praise performance they will value "evaluation".

One thing that is usually safe is connecting the dots for them, .. "you wanted this, .. so you worked at it,.. then you got it" and praising that. You praise the pursuit of the own happiness. Not the approval or evaluation from someone else.

I didn't get praised for trying even when I thought I would fail. So I never tried anything unless I thought I could do it and do it really well.

I think is a challenge for any talented child. Even for our daughter, she's very used to getting a lot of things quickly,.. it's hard for her sometimes to choose to struggle when she can get faster gratification by staying within comfort zones and giving up on other dreams.

She wanted me to become an accomplished pianist like herself. I enjoyed lessons for a long time, but when it started getting harder, she seemed surprised that her 'talented' daughter would find it 'hard'. It seemed like she then gave up on me.

That sounds awful :(

UNLESS someone teaches them that the important part is that they learn it's 100% OK to have to keep trying, keep coming back to it and having another shot until they get there.

I try to teach that the important part is being happy and what she wants. What she wants - not anyone else. That mommy and daddy wants her to do something is never a reason - all goal setting starts with "what do you want."

I should also say I thought itwas BRILLIANT to call it 'Showing them how to make a fw fun sounds, not a 'Lesson'!

Thanks, .. I'm good like that. :)

I only just noticed this. That sums up what I was trying to get at in my post.

So how do you teach a child to become more aware of their own internal regulation?

This is a tough one - in MY life I do it by trying to always know my objective. It doesn't always work, but at least I can always manage to ask: "what do I do now?"

I dont know if this is the best or worst approach, but when DD has a meltdown or some other "regulation issue" I ask her, "what's your goal?" or "what do you want?" And then of course, "How can you get it?.." and try to refocus her. It works pretty well.

jess30
10-21-14, 11:56 PM
One thing that is usually safe is connecting the dots for them, .. "you wanted this, .. so you worked at it,.. then you got it" and praising that. You praise the pursuit of the own happiness. Not the approval or evaluation from someone else.
I really like that. You sound like a really thoughtful father. This earth needs more parents like you!

pursuit of their own happinessI would make certain to teach my kids that happiness isn't always the obvious/easiest thing. Like, in my own maths lesson example, true happiness could have come from the self-respect gained by giving it a go. Not the 'happiness' from taking the 'easy' way out. Now I still regret it 21 yrs later. But hey, what I just got here is making up for it as I can learn from it for my own kids benefit. :)

BellaVita
10-22-14, 12:41 AM
I was exactly like that as a child, and still am....

Seriously, it's like you just told one of my childhood stories.

jess30
10-22-14, 01:14 AM
Bella are you talking to me there or Stevuke?! :confused: sorry it's probably obvious but I'm not sure...?

BellaVita
10-22-14, 01:56 AM
Bella are you talking to me there or Stevuke?! :confused: sorry it's probably obvious but I'm not sure...?

Oh I was responding to the OP! :)

jess30
10-22-14, 02:34 AM
:doh::)

Stevuke79
10-22-14, 02:17 PM
I would make certain to teach my kids that happiness isn't always the obvious/easiest thing. Like, in my own maths lesson example, true happiness could have come from the self-respect gained by giving it a go.

Only a parent can truly understand how challenging it is to capture the right nuance with our kids. I think you appreciate the challenge of this and it's good and somewhat rare to talk to people who do.

Very often when I mention these things in a group of friends, someone, will say: "Actually you should 'do or say this or that' .. or you shouldn't do 'this or that' because the message will be 'something or other'.. " And I feel like I was just having a discussion about astrophysics and someone voiced their disagreement and said: "actually it's twinkle twinkle little star.."

I was exactly like that as a child, and still am....

Seriously, it's like you just told one of my childhood stories.

Wow.. thanks for sharing that..

Anything you're glad that your folks did in those situations? Or something you wish they hadn't?

Bella are you talking to me there or Stevuke?! :confused: sorry it's probably obvious but I'm not sure...?

I wondered the same - it actually all seems very interconnected.

silivrentoliel
10-22-14, 02:56 PM
I'm like this even at 33. I wish I had a parent even a quarter as awesome as you are. I'm fairly certain my terror of everything wouldn't be near as bad today if I had.

jess30
10-22-14, 06:17 PM
Only a parent can truly understand how challenging it is to capture the right nuance with our kids. I think you appreciate the challenge of this and it's good and somewhat rare to talk to people who do.

Very often when I mention these things in a group of friends, someone, will say: "Actually you should 'do or say this or that' .. or you shouldn't do 'this or that' because the message will be 'something or other'.. " And I feel like I was just having a discussion about astrophysics and someone voiced their disagreement and said: "actually it's twinkle twinkle little star.."

Ha ha that's when you need an ADD friend nearby to secretly roll your eyes with!

I'm not far into the game yet as I only have a 22mth old but I grew up with a Downs sibling plus lots of contact with nephews, nieces and other kids. I think the DS sibling has given me a huge advantage in reading kids faces/body language. Oops I'm starting to go off topic, what I wanted to say is that I don't even bother to discuss with most of my friends, only my husband and childhood BF. Anyone else is just like you say, astrophysics and they tell you it's twinkle twinkle.

jess30
10-22-14, 06:21 PM
I wish I had a parent even a quarter as awesome as you are.

Yeah I wish that too, but I tell myself she (my Mum) did the best she knew. I'm sure she did. And I am going to use what I've learned from my childhood, ie how 'not' to do it, to help others, esp. my own child/children.

Stevuke79
10-22-14, 10:24 PM
I'm like this even at 33. I wish I had a parent even a quarter as awesome as you are. I'm fairly certain my terror of everything wouldn't be near as bad today if I had.

Yeah I wish that too, but I tell myself she (my Mum) did the best she knew. I'm sure she did. And I am going to use what I've learned from my childhood, ie how 'not' to do it, to help others, esp. my own child/children.

Thanks guys. :grouphug::grouphug: Silivren, do you have kids?

I think having a lousy parent helps you be a good one (though I'm sure research proves the opposite). Jess, I suspect you can relate to that a bit.. I think it makes us introspective and self-critical (in a good way).

Stevuke79
10-22-14, 10:25 PM
Ha ha that's when you need an ADD friend nearby to secretly roll your eyes with!

So true! High-Five!!

I'm not far into the game yet as I only have a 22mth old but I grew up with a Downs sibling plus lots of contact with nephews, nieces and other kids. I think the DS sibling has given me a huge advantage in reading kids faces/body language. Oops I'm starting to go off topic, what I wanted to say is that I don't even bother to discuss with most of my friends, only my husband and childhood BF. Anyone else is just like you say, astrophysics and they tell you it's twinkle twinkle.

Awww.. None of that was off topic! I loved that post.

jess30
10-23-14, 01:49 AM
I think having a lousy parent

Promise I'm not offended but I don't want to put her in that bracket coz she did do the best she knew how. :) In fact you might even say her style was 'over-mothering'...

I think having a lousy parent helps you be a good one (though I'm sure research proves the opposite)

That is material for another whole thread!! I know what you mean. I agree.

jess30
10-23-14, 01:50 AM
Silivren, do you have kids?

I was wondering that too :)

SB_UK
10-23-14, 04:58 AM
Has anyone else seen such a nervous 6 year old? Poor kid.. Is this a sensory disorder? Does she need to be evaluated. I mean I'm pretty sure she's perfect, .. but is this common for other parents?


We have this problem.

'Highly Sensitive child' condition.

Have to be very gentle in all communication with child.

She stays away from all people who're brutal in behaviour, language etc... ...

Having to take her out of school just because she finds other students rude; being a highly sensitive type - I can see what she means.

SB_UK
10-23-14, 06:24 AM
ps I think we learn best when we're interested and learning by ourselves ie with a decent book or internet resource.

There's a problem with learning from people - it's unpleasant.

I guess the ADDer who's allowed to study will discard all 'interaction time' for time alone with books.

Stevuke79
10-23-14, 03:00 PM
We have this problem.

'Highly Sensitive child' condition.

ps I think we learn best when we're interested and learning by ourselves ie with a decent book or internet resource.

There's a problem with learning from people - it's unpleasant.

I guess the ADDer who's allowed to study will discard all 'interaction time' for time alone with books.
:goodpost:
I think you're so right. I think that's actually precisely the problem.

I loved and admired my childhood music teacher - I didn't really like lessons.

Even now I'm learning guitar, I KNOW that I should take a lesson. But I simply don't want to put myself through a lesson.

And again, SB, when I say "that's precisely" the problem - I'm 35. I can read. I have unrestricted internet access. I've learned other instruments in the past. I can self-teach myself an instrument.. and probably whatever else I want to self teach.

At 6, she kind of needs lessons.
Do you know what I mean?

Stevuke79
10-23-14, 03:54 PM
And soon I am off for our first guitar lesson (she agreed to the lesson in the end. We're no longer calling it a play session) at 5:00pm today. :)

Stevuke79
10-23-14, 03:57 PM
Promise I'm not offended but I don't want to put her in that bracket coz she did do the best she knew how. :) In fact you might even say her style was 'over-mothering'...

I actually thought about editing that out - I didn't mean it, and you truly didn't give the sense that you thought your mom was lousy,.. only that in addition to all the positive, she ALSO demonstrated some areas of parenting that you'd like to improve upon for yourself ;). (which is also positive, right? so really it's all positive.. kidding)

Then I thought I was over thinking it and left it as is. But yeah, we're on the same page.


[QUOTE]That is material for another whole thread!! I know what you mean. I agree.

I'll keep an eye out for it..

jess30
10-23-14, 07:20 PM
NW. Exactly what I thought you'd say and I wasn't going bother to say anything. But then I felt bad for my mum even though she would never know.... so I posted... prob a bit of overthinking this end too!

How did the lesson go. I tried it once at home and ended up with very sore fingers! I hope she got on well :)

Stevuke79
10-23-14, 08:02 PM
NW. Exactly what I thought you'd say and I wasn't going bother to say anything. But then I felt bad for my mum even though she would never know.... so I posted... prob a bit of overthinking this end too!

How did the lesson go. I tried it once at home and ended up with very sore fingers! I hope she got on well :)

I worry about inconsequential conversations that no one will ever here all the time, LOL!

Stevuke79
10-23-14, 09:04 PM
Well the lesson was a success. The teacher was good. I liked him - he's a very young guy, probably EXCELLENT with 10 year olds, .. but 6 year old girls are tougher and require certain skills. But I helped move my daughter along,.. and at the end when we were running out of time and her poor finger tips were worn out, she had just learned a 4-string g-chord, and I said, "she likes to hear me play wild-thing" (Troggs), why don't you two play wild thing together, and when we got home she and I played wild-thing for mommy. (she was balling on the way home - which was kind of a good thing. means she loved it.)

When we got home she immediately started doing what I knew full well she's been dying to do with a guitar (until now it's been mine): laid it flat on the dining room table and "played it randomly" as she says. Actually, if I let her, that'd be ALL she ever did with the thing. And she likes to take it, .. swing it up and down like a rock star..

All of that is GREAT! But I'm also seeing a parenting/teaching opportunity/challenge,.. this is the very first thing she has ever owned in her entire life that is not a toy. (maybe her bike is also not a toy) And left to her own devices, "practising" would be anything but learning how to hold the guitar properly and hit the fret. But in order for me to continue with the lessons and the rental, I obviously want her to do both.

So I said like this, today, everything goes. Tomorrow: almost everything goes, but we'll have one rule. You can play, have fun, make up songs, strum randomly, chuck (she loves to chuck), .. make your own beautiful music,.. but one rule:
Either mommy or daddy must be there to make sure you're trying to handle it properly as you play (not only because eventually she'd break it - but I got a little frown from that one.)

BUT (and this turned the frown upside down)

Once mommy and daddy see that you have learned HOW to handle it properly, holding it right, sitting right, proper hand positions, we will let you use it ALL BY YOURSELF and and AAAAAAND We'll get you you're very own PINK guitar strap!!! (honestly she might well get that by her next guitar lesson)

While we're supervising,.. we're going to be silent. We're only there to prevent her from breaking it. She can do what she wants. But it also gives her a POSITIVE motivation to learn how to handle it properly. She wants to be able to use it without us there,.. and she DEFINITELY wants that pink guitar strap.

jess30
10-26-14, 08:43 PM
Sounds as good as can be expected! Hopefully she will keep it up :)

BellaVita
10-26-14, 10:46 PM
Wow.. thanks for sharing that..

Anything you're glad that your folks did in those situations? Or something you wish they hadn't?

It helped me to have my Mom come in with me, when it was a scary situation for me.

However I had a bad childhood so this didn't always happen and often I was just left to freak out.

In grade school, my panic attacks got so bad that my doctor put me on Ativan, that helped calm me when I really needed it and helped me not be so afraid of things.....

I was an emotional and sensitive little girl, sometimes talking to my mom for hours on end and crying about what bothered me helped. It took a lot of patience on my mom's end.

She would also call the teachers before I'd go to school (like before I started a new grade) and let them know how sensitive I was. She would talk to the teachers to let them know how shy and sensitive and easily scared I was....(pretty sure that's what happened)

Hmmm

Any other questions? I don't know if I actually answered yours or if I went way off-topic.....

BellaVita
10-26-14, 10:51 PM
Another thing, when I would freak out and was crying and embarrassed about crying (I would cry often with new situations/or when people hurt my easily-hurt feelings) my Mom wouldn't try to pry and question me, she just let me cry for hours on end.

And if I called from school saying I was crying and freaking out, or if I was freaking out crying for hours before school(I think these things were related to bipolar or something) - she wouldn't question me she'd just be okay with it.

Doing that made it so I didn't get my self-esteem shot down, which would have made me even more sensitive and overly-emotional.

It was really important that my Mom just "went with it" - like didn't try to force me into going somewhere when I was having a meltdown.

I feel like if she had, I would have been in worse off shape and probably handle situations worse today.

[PS - these techniques still work with me....it's like whoever I'm with, just needs to let my emotional breakdowns "run their course"....]

sarahsweets
10-28-14, 04:38 AM
I think Steve in the simplest terms and bottom lines is that it should be fun. Doesn't matter if she becomes a virtuoso or prodigy, she should like it.