View Full Version : Feeling guilty .... Anyone else?


BellaVita
10-24-14, 02:59 AM
Anyone else feel guilty for having episodes?

Like during/or after an episode, do you ever feel guilt like you could have stopped it from coming on somehow?

Like for me, I think "I should have gone to bed earlier" or "I should have done this or that" and then I also feel guilty for revving myself up...

And then I also feel guilty for not having spotted the early warning signs in past episodes....(like super happy and confident/doing lots of things I wouldn't usually do....also then with the guilt I also feel depressed that it wasn't "actually me" feeling that way)

Just I know I probably shouldn't feel guilt but I do......

Any suggestions on how to handle the guilt? Is it normal to feel guilt?

dvdnvwls
10-25-14, 03:41 PM
It's absolutely normal to feel guilt, especially considering that along with bipolar (and ADHD too of course) there usually comes an endless stream of blaming and shaming from teachers, parents, and seemingly just about everyone else as well.

It's almost unavoidable that a child constantly exposed to that kind of criticism will start believing and internalizing the unfair & invalid accusations she keeps hearing from "the authorities". Young people with bipolar and/or ADHD may very well realize that there's something very unfair or wrong about the guilt and shame being falsely thrust upon them, but that knowledge doesn't clear up the problem - often that becomes just another source of internal uncertainty and destabilization.

It might even (especially for those who've undergone intensive "be good or else" training) become a further source of guilt! (i.e. "I shouldn't know that my parents and teachers are wrong about my behaviour - that knowledge makes me even more bad"). :(

That internal conflict ("I know my parents and teachers are wrong about me, AND I know I'll get in trouble for contradicting them, AND these are the people I'm forced to trust for everything but they're hurting me and misunderstanding me") is also a major source of ongoing anxiety, obviously. :(

BellaVita
10-25-14, 03:46 PM
It's absolutely normal to feel guilt, especially considering that along with bipolar (and ADHD too of course) there usually comes an endless stream of blaming and shaming from teachers, parents, and seemingly just about everyone else as well.

It's almost unavoidable that a child constantly exposed to that kind of criticism will start believing and internalizing the unfair & invalid accusations she keeps hearing from "the authorities". Young people with bipolar and/or ADHD may very well realize that there's something very unfair or wrong about the guilt and shame being falsely thrust upon them, but that knowledge doesn't clear up the problem - often that becomes just another source of internal uncertainty and destabilization.

It might even (especially for those who've undergone intensive "be good or else" training) become a further source of guilt! (i.e. "I shouldn't know that my parents and teachers are wrong about my behaviour - that knowledge makes me even more bad"). :(

That internal conflict ("I know my parents and teachers are wrong about me, AND I know I'll get in trouble for contradicting them, AND these are the people I'm forced to trust for everything but they're hurting me and misunderstanding me") is also a major source of ongoing anxiety, obviously. :(

You know me so well. :(

Thanks for responding, you really hit the nail on the head.

A lot of my guilt is from childhood and getting shamed for my behavior.

Your post really helped. :)

Maurice
10-25-14, 03:48 PM
It's absolutely normal to feel guilt, especially considering that along with bipolar (and ADHD too of course) there usually comes an endless stream of blaming and shaming from teachers, parents, and seemingly just about everyone else as well.

It's almost unavoidable that a child constantly exposed to that kind of criticism will start believing and internalizing the unfair & invalid accusations she keeps hearing from "the authorities". Young people with bipolar and/or ADHD may very well realize that there's something very unfair or wrong about the guilt and shame being falsely thrust upon them, but that knowledge doesn't clear up the problem - often that becomes just another source of internal uncertainty and destabilization.

It might even (especially for those who've undergone intensive "be good or else" training) become a further source of guilt! (i.e. "I shouldn't know that my parents and teachers are wrong about my behaviour - that knowledge makes me even more bad"). :(

That internal conflict ("I know my parents and teachers are wrong about me, AND I know I'll get in trouble for contradicting them, AND these are the people I'm forced to trust for everything but they're hurting me and misunderstanding me") is also a major source of ongoing anxiety, obviously. :(

Very interesting. I guess if you are right then I'm abnormal because I can remember feeling guilty about different things years ago. But I have either gotten past those feelings or over them.

I can't even remember the last time I felt guilty about anything.

BellaVita
10-25-14, 03:52 PM
Very interesting. I guess if you are right then I'm abnormal because I can remember feeling guilty about different things years ago. But I have either gotten past those feelings or over them.

I can't even remember the last time I felt guilty about anything.

dvdnvwls posted that because he knows a little extra about my childhood - I was abused since around the age of 6 physically, mentally, (and sexually verbally by my father) by my parents.

I was severely punished and would be locked in my room when I'd break something or barely act up, even if they "thought" my tone of voice wasn't polite enough, would also get pinned to the floor and spit in the face by my mother.

Anyway, as a child I'd have these crying/rage episodes that lasted between 5-10 hrs and I would be kept in my room freaking out breaking things going crazy.

It wasn't my fault. :(

dvdnvwls
10-25-14, 05:03 PM
Very interesting. I guess if you are right then I'm abnormal because I can remember feeling guilty about different things years ago. But I have either gotten past those feelings or over them.

I can't even remember the last time I felt guilty about anything.

Something being normal to have, doesn't necessarily make you abnormal for not having it. It's normal to wear a hat, but not abnormal to not wear one. :)

All of us have different experiences. As ADHDers, nearly all of us have been made to feel guilty in the past by parents/teachers/bosses/whoever. Some of us get past it. Some don't. Some think they're past it but really aren't. Some of us get it worse than others. Guilt received at a young age or by an extra-sensitive person is usually worse than guilt received by a less-sensitive or older person.

It's quite possible for an adult who says "I'm glad I'm past all that" to later encounter an angry boss or demanding partner who opens old wounds, wounds which up to that point had seemed to be completely healed.

dvdnvwls
10-25-14, 05:24 PM
You know me so well. :(

Nothing in my response needed special knowledge of you. "The guilt thing" is pretty common, and though people's actual experiences vary, "the guilt thing" itself seems to be fairly consistent - I think there are only a few basic ways it gets expressed. (There's internalizing vs externalizing, I guess; I'm sure there must be other variations of expression as well, but in some sense this ADHD/bipolar/other disorders guilt really works just about the same for all of us - yes you got fed a lot more of it than I did, but AFAICT it's the same process in the end.)

BellaVita
10-25-14, 05:31 PM
Nothing in my response needed special knowledge of you.

I know, it was just the way you wrote it made something in my brain go off that said "he's posting this cuz at a subconscious level he knows the stuff I went through" - you've done this before when posting in response to me....usually when it comes to it having to do with my parents.

;)

dvdnvwls
10-25-14, 05:39 PM
I know, it was just the way you wrote it made something in my brain go off that said "he's posting this cuz at a subconscious level he knows the stuff I went through" - you've done this before when posting in response to me....usually when it comes to it having to do with my parents.

;)

Let's say that while I could have responded in exactly the same way to anyone and probably been right, with you I didn't spend a lot of time wondering if I was on the right track or not. :)

InvitroCanibal
10-25-14, 07:35 PM
Yesterday, I debated with about 30 people, alone, for three hours, while they rediculed me, mocked me, belittled me and laughed at me. None of it phased me and I stood my ground, and won the debate. I wasn't afraid, because i've made so many mistakes socially that there isn't anything left for me to say I haven't done. My experience with failure, especially socially, seems to give me courage in life. I think fear is defined as the unknown, they say we fear the unknown but I beleive fear is the unknown. When you've encountered failure, you've now come to know something that other people probably wont. I think you should account for what the manic/depressed experiences in your life have taught you, and what you've gained from them as well. Perhaps a better understanding on human nature in general, a less bias perspective, less black and white and a keener sense in critical judgement.

There is a lie perpetrated by mass media and just in public bias as well, that bipolar people, are individuals with poor judgement and therefore erratic emotions, but it's actually that our judgement is sound but our emotions are not aligned with our judgement. In that sense, we tend to trick ourselves.

Honestly, I think bipolar people have some of the best judgement of anyone else out there, they have to or else things would be more chaotic than they are. So that when you're stable, you'll find you can see both sides of the issue more often, empathize more often, and gain a better insight into life for it. Bipolar itself isn't something you can control without medications. I think we've adapted as best as we are equipped to deal with it.

But to answer your question specifically, Ya the guilt stays around, and comes back when I'm depressed most of all. Sometimes it hits like a freight train. I was taught in the peer counseling training i'm doing, that when we have a negative thought about ourselves, we have to ask where's it coming from, is it valid, and is it productive?

You then have to find a way to forgive yourself and move on. Moving on means using your failures for the purpose of success. If you see how your failures have benefited you in your life, perhaps made you a better person, you'll realize you can't be a good person without failing and screwing up in your life. Also, That mistakes make us better people over all, as long as we choose to accept them and learn how to over come them.

BellaVita
10-25-14, 07:38 PM
Wow, excellent post InvitroCanibal. :goodpost: I really like the points you made.

Wish I could print out what you posted.

sarahsweets
10-28-14, 04:50 AM
I suffer from these weird episodes of fugue which is rather rare according to my doctor. I will have conversations and be so"off" that sometimes people have wondered if I've picked up drinking again. When I snap out of these I have no recollection of what happened. This takes a huge toll on my family and I'm forever feeling guilty.

Lizzie80
10-29-14, 11:44 PM
Anyone else feel guilty for having episodes?

Like during/or after an episode, do you ever feel guilt like you could have stopped it from coming on somehow?

Like for me, I think "I should have gone to bed earlier" or "I should have done this or that" and then I also feel guilty for revving myself up...

And then I also feel guilty for not having spotted the early warning signs in past episodes....(like super happy and confident/doing lots of things I wouldn't usually do....also then with the guilt I also feel depressed that it wasn't "actually me" feeling that way)

Just I know I probably shouldn't feel guilt but I do......

Any suggestions on how to handle the guilt? Is it normal to feel guilt?

Yes! All the freaking time! I have this obsessive self-blame thing that others find completely nuts and unproductive. Which it is. Which makes me feel guilty for having such a complex.

Anyway, I look for a reason in everything. If I did or said something stupid, I never think the other person might have instigated it (even if they did). I am so darn mercurial, though. A lot of the time, it IS me. I can be so lovey-dovey one moment of the day, and a total you-know-what later on. There are times when everything and everyone irritates me, and for some reason I cannot control the frustration, and it shows. This seems to be getting worse with age...the lovey-dovey part of my nature is dying off more by the day, though! :(

In any event, I empathize...sympathize...whatever, Bella. I feel your pain!

:goodpost:

daveddd
10-30-14, 12:36 AM
more shame i think, than guilt

but close enough

it can knock me out of reality

dvdnvwls
10-30-14, 01:34 AM
more shame i think, than guilt

but close enough

it can knock me out of reality

I think you must be right about shame vs guilt. Too often those words are confused for each other, and it's relatively easy to gloss over the difference - guilt being the sense that I've hurt someone else, focusing on that other person and how they've been affected; shame being the sense that I've done wrong, and how I've been affected.

someothertime
10-30-14, 11:02 AM
yup.... usually maybe 3 hours later.... maybe a day or two.....

the overarching "tones" and how they have effected others and perhaps not conveyed something properly or taken into account other things.....

it's really amazing how strongly i can get over a single topic / question........ on the guilt...... i often take myself back to the reason for the hightened emotions..... it's always something valid....... so there is scope to clarify and perhaps recover some of the intent.

This is key here i think..... that guilt CAN be a good thing........ if it's not taken into blame etc..... it's merely you psyche saying that the message was unclear or off point etc, in other words, it's an opportunity to alter. or at least, a window into how we tick.....

daveddd
10-30-14, 10:56 PM
I think you must be right about shame vs guilt. Too often those words are confused for each other, and it's relatively easy to gloss over the difference - guilt being the sense that I've hurt someone else, focusing on that other person and how they've been affected; shame being the sense that I've done wrong, and how I've been affected.

yea same family of emotions

i wasn't implying bella was using the wrong word for her emotion

just that they both suck

the research is starting to solidify the fact that us with emotional issues (finally now specific to adhd, its been in bipolar research awhile ) experience shame and guilt much different than the norms

both extremely painful and fused

BellaVita
10-30-14, 11:13 PM
yea same family of emotions

i wasn't implying bella was using the wrong word for her emotion

just that they both suck

the research is starting to solidify the fact that us with emotional issues (finally now specific to adhd, its been in bipolar research awhile ) experience shame and guilt much different than the norms

both extremely painful and fused

Hey, that's very interesting.

May you give me a link to some of the research? That would be something I'd love to read about and dig into.
(Especially relating to bipolar?)

Little Missy
10-31-14, 07:11 AM
The guilt, oh! the guilt! Coulda, woulda, shoulda...sometimes I am consumed by guilt.:(

I either need to set the Way Back Machine, or forgive myself and move forward.

I try to do the very best I am able to every single day.

stef
10-31-14, 09:01 AM
I know this thread is about bipolar but I am occasionally consumed by guilt and shame. especially when one thing goes wrong and then everything snowballs and I think of past mistakes... it's gotten better though it used to be pretty much constant and it was like I was living a double life. The thing is to really understand, that you can't change how your mind "naturally wants to function", no more than if you had very poor vision or something like that. just use all of the possible resources out there, to live a happier life!

Lizzie80
11-01-14, 04:09 PM
Hey, that's very interesting.

May you give me a link to some of the research? That would be something I'd love to read about and dig into.
(Especially relating to bipolar?)

I had no idea there was research talking about that, either. I wonder how many people with AD(H)D have bipolar, too? I mean really have it, those who get diagnosed AND those who go a lot or all of their lives undiagnosed.

What's truly scary in terms of the humanity of the situation is when you think of how many souls go without being diagnosed correctly with AD(H)D, bipolar, etcetera. How many of us go through the trauma of misdiagnosis...or just NO diagnosis, for so many issues that are often cast aside (and moralized, to boot). How many people are thought to be addicts to one substance or another, when in reality they have brain chemistry issues that need a lot of work. Issues that won't get a huge amount of research, not in the foreseeable future, simply because of the limitations involved with studying the brain in a living person.

I can't really blame the medical establishment all that much in that regard, because it's still such a crapshoot. You can't take the brain out of the body like a mechanic takes a part out of a car, see what's clogged, clean it up, tighten the screws, and whatever else mechanics do with such stuff. Then stick the brain back in place in the body like said mechanic with the car, and voila! Nope. And I wonder how long it will be that way. Why can't we just be diagnosed like a darn car needing new parts or some cleaning up, darn it?!

Sorry, MAJOR tangent there. Just sayin', though...very sad. :(

Lizzie80
11-04-14, 01:26 AM
The guilt, oh! the guilt! Coulda, woulda, shoulda...sometimes I am consumed by guilt.:(

I either need to set the Way Back Machine, or forgive myself and move forward.

I try to do the very best I am able to every single day.

If we could set it to travel back to "Birth", I'm SOOOO with you all in the Way Back Machine! Because otherwise I'll be flipping out over the one thing I didn't get to redo in my entire lifetime, and then I'd be back where I am right now. ;)

fracturedstory
11-05-14, 07:21 AM
I only feel guilty when I drink a certain amount of alcohol.