View Full Version : About karma ...


Gilthranon
11-28-14, 09:13 PM
I do really not believe in karma. I don't like being the good guy when the world is unjust. And I'm no hero. But I do like returning favors. So almost on principle I will return favors with a smile on my face, and that's it. But follow my heart, and if it tells me to do something differently, I will

Roommies are asleep so I can elaborate tomorrow

stef
11-29-14, 03:54 AM
karma does not exist it's all random! We just have to keep going, do what you can to have a beautiful life and treat others well because this is all we have!

Pilgrim
11-29-14, 07:07 AM
karma does not exist it's all random! We just have to keep going, do what you can to have a beautiful life and treat others well because this is all we have!

I disagree I think there is. What goes around comes around. You have to try and be honest when you do.:)

Gilthranon
11-29-14, 07:16 AM
I disagree I think there is. What goes around comes around. You have to try and be honest when you do.:)
There is no scientific logical proof your deeds result in an infinite chain of action-reaction repercussions with any higher chance of a positive outcome. Partially due to individual external factors independently influencing the chain you started/participated in.

Also remember this chain is called life/evolution and any action resulting in millions of different things around you, your perspective whether to regret a deed or be proud and satisfied about your action exclusively depends on how far in the future you are willing to put your perspective. As every single event you create inevitably is connected (no matter how loosly) to a future event, positive or negative. Focus on the positive ones, and the glass is half full, the negative ones and it's half empty.

Free will allows us to decide how far we are willing to look into the past or future (an action we did) and connect that event to the action we did.

Generally in most cases happiness is a mentality you can choose. That's why pride sometimes get's the best of me and I have a tendency to call certain people 'pathetic' (I try not to - I would be so myself)

Pilgrim
11-29-14, 07:21 AM
There is no scientific logical proof your deeds result in an infinite chain of action-reaction repercussions with any higher chance of a positive outcome. Partially due to individual external factors independently influencing the chain you started/participated in.

Also remember this chain is called life/evolution and any action resulting in millions of different things around you, your perspective whether to regret a deed or be proud and satisfied about your action exclusively depends on how far in the future you are willing to put your perspective. As every single event you create inevitably is connected (no matter how loosly) to a future event, positive or negative. Focus on the positive ones, and the glass is half full, the negative ones and it's half empty.

Free will allows us to decide how far we are willing to look into the past or future (an action we did) and connect that event to the action we did.

Generally in most cases happiness is a mentality you can choose. That's why pride sometimes get's the best of me and I have a tendency to call certain people 'pathetic' (I try not to - I would be so myself)

Your always your own harsh judge and worst enemy.

someothertime
11-29-14, 08:11 AM
karma... imho it exists... my belief is that it is not as simplistic as do good = get good or vice versa...

i am sure that logically, i can be persuaded to agree with the practicalities of it's inexistence... there is something though..... beyond logic.... and this i think... is where karma resides for the most part...

stef
11-29-14, 08:45 AM
I disagree I think there is. What goes around comes around. You have to try and be honest when you do.:)

well of course!
but my problem with karma is I used against myself. I thought anything bad that happened to me was a direct result of something I did.

Lunacie
11-29-14, 11:23 AM
In the Buddhist view, a proper understanding of karma will lead one to have
compassion for all beings, including ourselves, who are trapped in this cycle
of birth and death.

Or ... treat yourself well, and treat others well too.

Unmanagable
11-29-14, 03:05 PM
In my opinion, Karma is another form of fear that can be used to manipulate self and others, similar to the fear of going to hell, etc.. Like stef, I used to also think bad things happened to me strictly because of something I did.

S*** happens regardless of what we do, however, where we choose to spend and direct our energy tends to greatly effect circumstances.

Flory
11-29-14, 03:52 PM
I think it's important to remember humans are not infalliable beings.

The idea of good and evil is one with many blurred lines. Cultural beliefs, upbringing etc play massively in to how we as humans relate to one another and behave and what we think is right or wrong. Often times actions have far more to them than the direct intention of hurting people. For instance the starving mother stealing because she needs to feed herself and child. There are of course examples throughout history and modern day of true evil but I feel it's the minority and that humans given the opportunity are capable of being kind, compassionate and altruistic.

I like to show as far as possible when reflecting on things compassion. Some of the most terrible things that have happened to me have shaped me into who I am today.

There is definitely an element of taking control over the situations that we can if someone is hurting us we can always as adults decide that actually we can remove ourselves from that situation. I feel those that are purposely doing wrong for selfish gain will eventually face the consequences of what they do.

I like to dole out instant "karma" in the form of telling the people that have done me and those I care about wrong to go and **** themselves ;)

Wowwowwow
11-29-14, 04:14 PM
Hmm tough to top that flory,I believe if your harbouring karma,it's negative ,the book the secret....all thoughts are energy....if all you send is negative ,this is what you will receive.....

SB_UK
11-29-14, 07:44 PM
If you help people - it's likely that they'll help you back - and as you get better and better at it - you'll maybe have people lining up to help you -
what goes around comes around ?
isn't that sufficient ?

BellaVita
11-30-14, 02:05 AM
In my opinion, Karma is another form of fear that can be used to manipulate self and others, similar to the fear of going to hell, etc.. Like stef, I used to also think bad things happened to me strictly because of something I did.

S*** happens regardless of what we do, however, where we choose to spend and direct our energy tends to greatly effect circumstances.

I don't believe in karma...but for some reason I still feel weird when something bad happens to me, that I caused it somehow. That it's my fault. :confused:

stef
11-30-14, 03:30 AM
I don't believe in karma...but for some reason I still feel weird when something bad happens to me, that I caused it somehow. That it's my fault. :confused:

That's exactly what I meant!
I think it's a particularly dangerous theory for a lot of us on here. Even if the buddhist idea of ultimately reaching compassion is in itself, quite lovely.

sarek
11-30-14, 06:01 AM
I am no longer sure about Karma. I have already seen sources that hold that is it simply yet another part of the overarching control mechanism that seeks to keep us contained within the reincarnation loop.

Another part of that mechanism consists of filling us with fear, doubt, shame, guilt and other negative emotions that keep us in a state of owing something to the universe. That puts us in an everlasting subservient mindset, designed to stop us from realizing who we are.

Of course, taken on another level, when you realize that All exists in unity, whatever you do to another is actually something you do to a part of the same whole. The only thing that prevents us from seeing that is the veil of illusory separation.

Flory
12-03-14, 07:14 PM
i believe in science.....

BellaVita
12-03-14, 07:17 PM
i believe in science.....

Amen to that sista! :)

dvdnvwls
12-03-14, 07:41 PM
Many people throw around the word "karma" without studying its meaning in original context. To over-simplify, if you're not a Buddhist (or at least a serious student of religion), be extremely cautious about using items of Buddhist terminology to mean whatever you think they ought to mean.

On this forum we occasionally receive visits from people who mangle ADHD terminology, get everything about ADHD wrong, and generally make fools of themselves, all the while thinking that they understand what's going on just because they saw some words used in a magazine article. Let's not be like that toward others, okay? It could be bad karma. ;)

mbrandon
12-03-14, 08:17 PM
You have to believe in something for it to exist.

Okay so fine, it's not that simple. My point is that somethings are real only because they are real to you. Take the placebo effect for instance... very well documented and has to be taken into account during clinical studies. Truly amazing that a sugar pill can actually imitate real medication if you believe its real.

I personally do not believe in "karma." Do I believe in all the other religious hogwash, no and I don't know what to believe. Nothing makes sense if you really think about it.

midnightstar
12-03-14, 08:28 PM
I think whether karma exists or not, everyone should try and help others to the best of their ability :grouphug:

dvdnvwls
12-03-14, 08:41 PM
I think whether karma exists or not, everyone should try and help others to the best of their ability :grouphug:

:goodpost:

sarek
12-04-14, 06:48 AM
I think whether karma exists or not, everyone should try and help others to the best of their ability :grouphug:


That, I think is the best possible answer.

Fuzzy12
12-04-14, 08:34 AM
Karma really just means cause and effect (and when I say "really", I mean that's my interpretation of it ;) ). It isn't actually related to good/evil (and when I say "actually", again, that's my interpretation of it:doh:) and it's definitely not a form of punishment (and when I say "definitely", etc..:rolleyes:)

I believe in science too, or rather the scientific method. :)

Kunga Dorji
12-04-14, 10:17 AM
I do really not believe in karma. I don't like being the good guy when the world is unjust. And I'm no hero. But I do like returning favors. So almost on principle I will return favors with a smile on my face, and that's it. But follow my heart, and if it tells me to do something differently, I will

Roommies are asleep so I can elaborate tomorrow


So-- you have good karma.

Karma = "becoming".
We become the sum total of all the choices we have made, or avoided making.
It is not hard really- nor is it unjust.
Karma can always be overcome by love and by courage.
Those are rare qualities.

Trust me-- I really am a Buddhist- I do know the formal teachings on the concept of karma-- and I hope that what I have written here is as accurate as I can manage.

Kunga Dorji
12-04-14, 10:19 AM
Karma really just means cause and effect (and when I say "really", I mean that's my interpretation of it ;) ). It isn't actually related to good/evil (and when I say "actually", again, that's my interpretation of it:doh:) and it's definitely not a form of punishment (and when I say "definitely", etc..:rolleyes:)

I believe in science too, or rather the scientific method. :)

Scientific method is also all about "cause and effect".
Same "stuff", different bucket.

Kunga Dorji
12-04-14, 10:22 AM
You have to believe in something for it to exist.

Okay so fine, it's not that simple. My point is that somethings are real only because they are real to you. Take the placebo effect for instance... very well documented and has to be taken into account during clinical studies. Truly amazing that a sugar pill can actually imitate real medication if you believe its real.

I personally do not believe in "karma." Do I believe in all the other religious hogwash, no and I don't know what to believe. Nothing makes sense if you really think about it.

Karma is a philosophical concept. Sure it has been adopted by a few "religions" - but the idea totally transcends formal boundaries such as the silly Cartesian ones that Western thinkers embrace so enthusiastically.

Your point about the placebo effect really highlights that you do understand the power of mind over matter, and the fact that that power has been demonstrated in scientific trials.

Really, "I" believe in nothing.
Full stop-- any belief that I try to put in words will later be proven as nonsense- usually about 30 seconds after it is verbailised.

The only truthful comment one can make about words is that they never capture or encapsulate the reality that they symbolise.

someothertime
12-04-14, 10:44 AM
Many people throw around the word "karma" without studying its meaning in original context. To over-simplify, if you're not a Buddhist (or at least a serious student of religion), be extremely cautious about using items of Buddhist terminology to mean whatever you think they ought to mean.

On this forum we occasionally receive visits from people who mangle ADHD terminology, get everything about ADHD wrong, and generally make fools of themselves, all the while thinking that they understand what's going on just because they saw some words used in a magazine article. Let's not be like that toward others, okay? It could be bad karma. ;)

Maybe... in some ways people form misguided or narrow views. And, as this topic is, are built upon pre-existing philosophies, ideologies, diagnosis and so forth...

To share and discuss ones own interpretations in such a platform is perhaps a worthy and fruitful development for more than one... person, group or principle. If one makes a fool of oneself and learns, let's facilitate that...

Sharing ones views on a common topic wrong or right is totally fine, there is always room for clarification. That is what we are here for.

My take on the discussion... was "does anyone have a belief / interpretation of a karma like phenomenon"... and the discussion has proceeded. i have learn t from you, that this word, is in some circles/groups an established philosophy and principle., and to be clearer in future use of it, to clarify the definition prior to comment. Thankyou.

Gilthranon
12-04-14, 05:48 PM
i believe in science.....
Amen to that sistah !

I think whether karma exists or not, everyone should try and help others to the best of their ability :grouphug:
Although I secretly disagree - 'do whatever makes you happy as long as you accept the consequences and let nobody tell you any different' - Amen to that sistah !

anotheradder
05-31-15, 09:04 PM
I am no longer sure about Karma. I have already seen sources that hold that is it simply yet another part of the overarching control mechanism that seeks to keep us contained within the reincarnation loop.
...


Sarek, seeing that you're into Russian esoterica - may I also suggest "Rose of the World (http://www.roseofworld.org/)" by D. Andreev (if you haven't run into it yet)?...It does discuss Law of Retribution vs. Law of Forgiveness, and their relative/respective origins and ethical standing. Briefly: yes, law of karmic retribution is in effect here (on 3-dimensional Earth) at this 'time', but hopefully things will improve.

Also, if I may make a suggestion in the context of 4th Way... While I feel that Gurdjieff's followers (Ouspensky, Mouravieff) are alright (in terms ethical polarity), something to be said about Gurdjieff himself (and Blavatsky, for that matter) is that they seemed willing to play for any side. It has been reported by their contemporaries, and is my own impression as well - Gurdjieff and Blavatsky have taken a pragmatical approach and drew knowledge from whomever would be willing to answer, whomever would help accelerate their growth/progress. Their sources may have been both forces of light and forces of darkness - thus some caution and ethical discipline may be advised.

That said, I sense your vibe to be of right polarity :)

I think whether karma exists or not, everyone should try and help others to the best of their ability :grouphug:

Not should, must. It would've been our moral obligation even if this were a non-theistic universe.

Kunga Dorji
05-31-15, 10:01 PM
i believe in science.....

Flory what you really believe in is your own judgement.
In saying I believe in science you are making a meta statement that I believe that my judgement that (belief in science is valid) is valid.

Every belief is an act of faith.