View Full Version : People Trying to Cure Autism


BellaVita
12-13-14, 08:15 PM
Those people are seriously starting to annoy me. Actually, it bothers me at a very deep level. :mad:

Even before I found out I likely have Asperger's, those people annoyed me.

I think people should be more accepting of autism.

We work so hard to fit in with the NTs, they need to gain some education and start trying to work WITH US too.

I've seen lots of people with Asperger's who DON'T want to be cured, we're just wired differently and that's FINE.

If it weren't for Asperger's, I don't think I'd be who I am today. I wouldn't be so interested in the things I'm interested in, which is what makes life worth living for me.

I'd be just like everyone else.

It really hurts that society wants to "cure" autism, just because people with it are different than what they're used to.

People with autism are real people too, we have real emotions, we don't completely lack empathy like that common myth says, we aren't dumb.

Yeah, I've got sensory issues and yeah I have meltdowns.

Yes I can't tell if you're being sarcastic because I take everything literally.

I suck with social cues.

So freakin what???

I still have something great to share with the world, and so do many other people on the autism spectrum.

And who knows, if they didn't have autism perhaps they wouldn't have their unique perspectives.

I am TIRED of people claiming vaccines cause autism, and that autism is bad in the first place and should be cured. That is so wrong and they obviously don't have a very good understanding of what it's LIKE to have autism in order to make it out to be some disease that should be cured...

Our brains are just wired a bit differently.

We're different. Get over it.

daveddd
12-13-14, 10:03 PM
hmmm

id have to say most people with autism are extremely impaired

i don't know why a cure would be a bad thing, i don't think you would have to take it



I'm glad your embracing the dx, but many with the disorder are probably miserable, some may not be, it wouldn't hurt to have a choice though

BellaVita
12-13-14, 10:38 PM
hmmm

id have to say most people with autism are extremely impaired

i don't know why a cure would be a bad thing, i don't think you would have to take it



I'm glad your embracing the dx, but many with the disorder are probably miserable, some may not be, it wouldn't hurt to have a choice though

Yeah, I know it can be pretty impairing.

Maybe it's more so those who are high functioning who I've seen talk about not wanting a cure.

I hope my thread doesn't cause offense to anyone, I realize that this is my own personal viewpoint and I don't mean to say I speak for everyone.

daveddd
12-13-14, 10:51 PM
Yeah, I know it can be pretty impairing.

Maybe it's more so those who are high functioning who I've seen talk about not wanting a cure.

I hope my thread doesn't cause offense to anyone, I realize that this is my own personal viewpoint and I don't mean to say I speak for everyone.

you were just speaking your mind

if you or anyone with autism wouldn't want a cure, thats your right, there is a lot of people who feel that way about their adhd

I'm just thinking people who are looking for a "cure" aren't just doing it because they don't like people with autism

BellaVita
12-13-14, 11:00 PM
you were just speaking your mind

if you or anyone with autism wouldn't want a cure, thats your right, there is a lot of people who feel that way about their adhd

I'm just thinking people who are looking for a "cure" aren't just doing it because they don't like people with autism

I know, you do have a point. :)

I guess my thing is, I just wish people (mainly NTs) would research about us too, like we (or I should say I) have researched for many years about body language and such in order to "fit in."

Like, we are wired differently and try so hard to get along in this NT-run world.

Yet it seems they're not exactly trying to understand *us.*

Instead, we get labeled social reject or outcast or weird or rude - just cuz we have a different way of approaching interaction.

Adenosine
02-04-16, 07:40 AM
I sometimes wish they could find a cure for the sensory and communication problems while leaving some of the interest fixation unscathed. That seems to be one of the main elements that isn't terrible, along with aptitude for random mechanical trivia.

Hathor
02-04-16, 10:21 AM
I was a toewalker till about 3rd grade and then stopped on my own.

One of the few things that went right regarding my parents and my neuroatypicality is that they never broke my balls over toewalking and were instead quite amused by it, not at all in a bully way.

When I read about toewalking and hear so few calls to just leave it be but rather forced change to the point of slice and dice I get chills - CHILLS!.

Corina86
02-04-16, 01:57 PM
I'm not autistic, but I would LOVE a treatment for sensory issues and social skills. It would make my life 1000% better. I'm tired of using earplugs and head-phones all day long, of getting up from the chair every 5 to 5 minutes to close the damn door someone left open, I'd be healthier if I could eat more diverse food, I'd go out more etc. I might even have a boyfriend- which is hard to get when you hate being touched. As for drugs changing who I am, I've heard that before for every psychiatric med out there, but my meds work just fine for me.

Also, I think it's kinda unfair that those with high functioning autism, people who went to school, who have jobs, friends, romantic relationships and families, who have fun with their hobbies, don't want to the lower-functioning to get treatment. They'll never have what you have, no matter how tolerant society is.

BellaVita
02-04-16, 06:24 PM
I'm not autistic, but I would LOVE a treatment for sensory issues and social skills. It would make my life 1000% better. I'm tired of using earplugs and head-phones all day long, of getting up from the chair every 5 to 5 minutes to close the damn door someone left open, I'd be healthier if I could eat more diverse food, I'd go out more etc. I might even have a boyfriend- which is hard to get when you hate being touched. As for drugs changing who I am, I've heard that before for every psychiatric med out there, but my meds work just fine for me.

Also, I think it's kinda unfair that those with high functioning autism, people who went to school, who have jobs, friends, romantic relationships and families, who have fun with their hobbies, don't want to the lower-functioning to get treatment. They'll never have what you have, no matter how tolerant society is.

I personally don't like the "high functioning/low functioning" labels.

According to those, I would be not high functioning but somewhere towards the middle maybe, but not nonverbal.

I can't work, I dropped out of college, I can't go in to stores, I can't drive, I can't speak sometimes, I have very obvious autistic symptoms.

Why should "unable to speak" be called "low functioning?"

Lots of low-functioning autistics DO speak through apps etc.

Also, there are lots of "low functioning" bloggers out there, MANY which say they don't want a cure AND that say the "high functioning" autistics speak for them.

BellaVita
02-04-16, 07:43 PM
So umm...this thread is from over a year ago....I was pretty passionate in the OP. :o

Fortune
02-04-16, 10:54 PM
Also, I think it's kinda unfair that those with high functioning autism, people who went to school, who have jobs, friends, romantic relationships and families, who have fun with their hobbies, don't want to the lower-functioning to get treatment. They'll never have what you have, no matter how tolerant society is.

A common thing I've seen from people who could be described as having "low-functioning autism" is that they often don't like people speaking for them in this way. Like you're wrong if you think they don't have these things you listed - some do, some don't. Some people who could be described as having "high-functioning autism" have these things, some don't. Functioning labels aren't particularly predictive of such things or helpful to autistic people.

And as Bella said, functioning labels are kind of rubbish for a lot of reasons.

Pretty much everyone who has insisted that I am high-functioning has made wrong assumptions about what I am capable of - both in terms of what I can and what I cannot do. That makes it useless as a descriptor. It's better to be more precise and not rely on sweeping labels.

Cyllya
02-05-16, 02:20 AM
I dislike both the pro-cure and anti-cure teams!

I have a lot of autism-like problems. The psychologist I saw about it said I "have autistic traits" but am too high-functioning to meet the diagnostic criteria. Well, I can't live independently, I have trouble holding a job, and life is just all-around stupidly hard. Despite being so gosh-darned high-functioning, I want these problems cured.

But most of the folks interested in curing autism do not want to cure those problems. Some of them want to cure things like inability to speak, which is nice, but that doesn't help people who can already speak decently. Other folks just want to make autistic people look superficially "normal" without addressing the underlying problems. They want to "cure" repetitive motor movements, low levels of eye-to-eye gaze, toe-walking, etc. They don't care if a child has horrific levels of hypersensitivity, as long as he can act as if he doesn't.

I'm an introverted loser who does lots of repetitive motor movements. If the curebies had their way, I'd be an extroverted loser who makes lots of eye contact. That's not really an improvement.

Here's an analogy: It's like there are a bunch of sick cats, with varying degrees of misery from their sickness. Naturally, some veterinarians are trying to cure them, BUT their basis for comparison is a bunch of healthy dogs. They've somehow never seen a healthy cat in their lives. So they feel like step one is to turn the cats into dogs. Cat sympathizers are understandably outraged and want the veterinarians to leave the cats alone, but they also want the cats to stay sick. I want the sick cats to be turned into healthy cats.

But the neurodiversity crowd is all about us not having any disability at all and everyone else is just mean to us. There are a lot of personality traits people associate with autism, but those traits are actually fairly common among the typical people where I live, and most people are nice to me. It hasn't solved my problems. Same with skills. All the alleged benefits of autism are things I see plenty of normal people have (e.g. good attention to detail) or things I don't have (e.g. I've seen people claim that hypersensitivity endows us with superior hearing).

There is a concept called broad autism phenotype which I wish was studied more. I think a legitimate cure would turn a person with ASD into a person with BAP, rather than a non-BAP NT.

If I'm not mistaken, previous versions of the DSM didn't have anything like "clinically significant impairment" in the criteria for Asperger's syndrome, but the DSM5 specifically says everyone with Asperger's syndrome should be considered to have ASD. So there are probably a few people who have ASD but they really don't have any autism-related disability, so it makes sense they don't want a cure. (But I'm guessing most people with Asperger's do have impairments. Something had to make them go get an evaluation in the first place.)

The following concepts further complicate the issue:

--Just because I have a disability doesn't mean my entire life is tragic and worthless.

--Just because I have a disability doesn't mean other people should be a jerk to me.

--The amount of impairment that comes from a disability depends a lot on societal factors ("social model of disability")

--Lots of people have an insufficient capacity for nuance. (Is this what the autism trait of "black and white thinking" refers to? It seems way too common to just be an autism thing, but autistic people definitely aren't immune to it.) Some parents harm their autistic kids in an attempt to "cure" them, so all potential cures would be harmful. Since societal factors cause us trouble, we'd be completely undisabled if people would just be nicer to us. Autism Speaks is a hate group with a horrible agenda, so all pro-cure agendas are evil. The fact that treatment could have side-effects means it's totally not worth it. Since some scam artists have tried to sell fake cures, that means a real cure could never exist, even in the future.

--The bias against prescription-only psychiatric drugs.

--When you're born with a disability, it kind of becomes part of your identity, so it'd be pretty discomforting to lose that.

Fortune
02-05-16, 05:43 AM
I doubt there will ever be a "cure."

As far as the "neurodiversity crowd" it is not a point of dogma for neurodiversity advocates that autism isn't a disability. For most of the neurodiversity advocates I have interacted with, they acknowledge autism is a disability, and support accommodations and treatments that help autistic people function better. They don't support treatments that are meant to make autistic people appear NT, because generally speaking, that kind of thing is very stressful for autistic people and doesn't actually help as you pointed out.

TygerSan
02-05-16, 01:32 PM
As much lip service is given to curing autism, I find that highly unlikely any time soon. There's just too much we don't know about the ins and outs and mechanisms behind the disorder(s). I'm not arguing that it's not a dangerous attitude or precedent to set, just that it's elevated to this random pinnacle of success, when we don't even really know what autism *is* from a neurological and physiological standpoint.

Society needs to become more accepting to difference and divergence from norms. I see the artificial division of folks into high and low functioning groups as a bias perpetuated by the fact that most researchers and therapists who work with autistics are not autistic themselves and don't always listen to those who are. There seems to be incredible emphasis placed on speaking and spoken communication when it's becoming ever more clear that the ability to communicate does not *need* to equal the need to speak. With democratization of technology such that people can afford things such as iPads and AATC software more easily, I think we're realizing that "low functioning" was short hand for "low to no expectations," "nonverbal," or just "doesn't fit in with my intuition of how someone should be behaving."

daveddd
02-06-16, 12:04 AM
you can't cure a syndrome , its been proven that autism ha many causes'

you guys like your autism right?

positives and negatives with it

i wonder why the same people who chase around the threads about people with ADHD who feel the same way don't try desperately to prove you guys wrong too

Fortune
02-06-16, 12:15 AM
If I were suddenly not autistic I would be a different person. I don't want to change who I am.

I've never said autism was a gift, though.

daveddd
02-06-16, 12:22 AM
If I were suddenly not autistic I would be a different person. I don't want to change who I am.

I've never said autism was a gift, though.


i didn't say you did, part of who you are and gift are not synonymous


though people around here seen to think it is, its annoying

BellaVita
02-06-16, 12:31 AM
you can't cure a syndrome , its been proven that autism ha many causes'

you guys like your autism right?

positives and negatives with it

i wonder why the same people who chase around the threads about people with ADHD who feel the same way don't try desperately to prove you guys wrong too

When I hear "you guys like your autism right?" my mind goes blank.

Because, I don't feel like autism is separate from me, it's a part of me and it affects everything.

I can't "like my autism" in the same way someone "likes their coffee."

daveddd
02-06-16, 12:35 AM
When I hear "you guys like your autism right?" my mind goes blank.

Because, I don't feel like autism is separate from me, it's a part of me and it affects everything.

I can't "like my autism" in the same way someone "likes their coffee."

makes perfect sense

but if I'm not mistaken you don't believe people who say that about their ADHD, or do you?

BellaVita
02-06-16, 02:46 AM
makes perfect sense

but if I'm not mistaken you don't believe people who say that about their ADHD, or do you?

I'm sorry, can you please elaborate?

daveddd
02-06-16, 03:00 AM
like when people say "this part of me" and its positive , not a gift is part of me because of my ADHD

i thought you usually argue it and say its not, you would be like that even without ADHD

but i may be remembering wrong

i obviously only brought it up because of the other thread going on now that there is one a week of

BellaVita
02-06-16, 03:04 AM
like when people say "this part of me" and its positive , not a gift is part of me because of my ADHD

i thought you usually argue it and say its not, you would be like that even without ADHD

but i may be remembering wrong

i obviously only brought it up because of the other thread going on now that there is one a week of

Ah, okay.

I don't necessarily think the two can be compared.

I don't honestly have any firm beliefs. Or maybe I do. I can't tell. I do think ADHD is a disorder that consists of impairment.

I don't think I've ever heard the same argument about ADHD, that it's "a part of me and affects everything I do" in the same way. I'm not sure it can be applied the same way. I don't know.

daveddd
02-06-16, 03:07 AM
Ah, okay.

I don't necessarily think the two can be compared.

I don't honestly have any firm beliefs. I do think ADHD is a disorder that consists of impairment.

I don't think I've ever heard the same argument about ADHD, that it's "a part of me and affects everything I do" in the same way. I'm not sure it can be applied the same way. I don't know.

oh

well autism is a disorder of impairments also

the argument is made on the other thread

and it can be applied the same way

they are both development disorders they effect the entire personality


i don't care that much or anything, just a conversation

BellaVita
02-06-16, 03:11 AM
oh

well autism is a disorder of impairments also

the argument is made on the other thread

and it can be applied the same way

they are both development disorders they effect the entire personality


i don't care that much or anything, just a conversation

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that autism doesn't have impairment.

I guess for some reason I feel like they aren't the same.

I mean, of course the two autism and ADHD aren't the same, just not sure if it works to say the same for ADHD.

This is confusing my brain right now, lol. Sorry if my thoughts aren't making sense.

daveddd
02-06-16, 03:19 AM
i have kind ofd an issue understanding why people with autism wouldn't want a cure and feel like its a part of them too

both disorders have issues with perspective taking, so I'm not surprised

they have quite a bit of similarities , even share heritability , just express different issues different ways i think

TygerSan
02-06-16, 06:46 AM
Bella, what you've said about your autism is *exactly* how I feel about my ADHD and LD, and was what I was trying to communicate in the other thread. I get it, but it's hard to articulate. I don't know who I would be without my quirky (and often infuriating) brain. It's mine and I haven't known any other.

Fortune
02-06-16, 05:35 PM
i have kind ofd an issue understanding why people with autism wouldn't want a cure and feel like its a part of them too

both disorders have issues with perspective taking, so I'm not surprised

they have quite a bit of similarities , even share heritability , just express different issues different ways i think

You don't need to understand, but it helps a lot if you don't try to argue the point.

Fuzzy12
02-06-16, 06:45 PM
Never mind. I'm staying out of this one.

Lunacie
02-06-16, 07:35 PM
Ah, okay.

I don't necessarily think the two can be compared.

I don't honestly have any firm beliefs. Or maybe I do. I can't tell. I do think ADHD is a disorder that consists of impairment.

I don't think I've ever heard the same argument about ADHD, that it's "a part of me and affects everything I do" in the same way. I'm not sure it can be applied the same way. I don't know.

My Connor's scores for ADHD showed high percentages in Inattentive and mid-level in Hyperactivity.

I haven't had any evaluations for Autism, but have so many of the traits and have genetics, I believe I'm also Autistic.

It's probably the sensory issues that are most troubling for me and if there was a cure for Autism I'd take it on that basis.

I probably wouldn't bother with a cure for ADHD since I'm 65 now. It's always been a part of me and affects everything I do.


But if there was a cure for Anxiety and Depression ... I'd be pushing to be first in line for that cure. ;)

BellaVita
02-06-16, 07:39 PM
Thanks for sharing your views Tyger and Lunacie.

I'm glad I can understand a bit more, and that others do feel that way about their ADHD.

I have thought about this before bed at nights, thinking about whether I want a cure for ADHD. Honestly, I do not know the answer.

For me, the main thing I would want to be improved out of everything, is my executive functioning.

Fortune
02-06-16, 07:42 PM
Yeah, I'd love to find a way to improve my executive functioning.

To elaborate on my "don't argue the point" earlier, I mean don't tell someone how they should feel or think about their disabilities. It's okay to not understand why someone might not want a cure, but it's not cool to tell them they should be obligated to feel differently.

Lunacie
02-06-16, 07:45 PM
I think it comes down a choice between what the person with autism wants and is comfortable with

versus a judgment by non-autistic people who think that autistic people "need to be fixed."

Fixed = Cured

Adenosine
02-06-16, 10:29 PM
While it made my early childhood a complete trainwreck socially, I think a certain side of the isolation was useful, because it prevented me from idealizing norms and traditions in the same way as many other people. The problem is, those deficits don't suddenly go away now that they've run their course in that end. Even if I can someday use my intellect to absorb all the missing social intuition, I pretty much have Tourette's, which means that appearing normal may well be physically impossible. A small dose of unease gives me the same verbal stuttering and awkward physical tics that ordinary people experience during severe anxiety. At best, it makes me look like a wimp, and I would be very surprised if some people did not find it outright unnerving.

Adenosine
02-07-16, 01:16 PM
Now, if you have savant skills, that is a demonstrable advantage over normal people. But they can still come with all the same other baggage.

Fuzzy12
02-07-16, 01:18 PM
Yeah, I'd love to find a way to improve my executive functioning.

To elaborate on my "don't argue the point" earlier, I mean don't tell someone how they should feel or think about their disabilities. It's okay to not understand why someone might not want a cure, but it's not cool to tell them they should be obligated to feel differently.

Yes, I fully agree with that. All I'd ask for is that the same courtesy is given to people with adhd as well.

(In general, not just addressing this to you fortune)

Fortune
02-07-16, 08:38 PM
Now, if you have savant skills, that is a demonstrable advantage over normal people. But they can still come with all the same other baggage.

They're called splinter skills.

Yes, I fully agree with that. All I'd ask for is that the same courtesy is given to people with adhd as well.

(In general, not just addressing this to you fortune)

I am not sure why it would be addressed to me. My particular problem is with people who decide that how they view their ADHD is the way everyone should view their ADHD. This most frequently comes from people who espouse varieties of positive thinking, and less frequently from people who don't.

dvdnvwls
02-07-16, 09:22 PM
Simply because someone might wish or believe that all facts were relative and all truths were provisional, that would not make it so.

Fuzzy12
02-08-16, 04:14 AM
They're called splinter skills.



I am not sure why it would be addressed to me. My particular problem is with people who decide that how they view their ADHD is the way everyone should view their ADHD. This most frequently comes from people who espouse varieties of positive thinking, and less frequently from people who don't.

I've quoted you because you made an important point.

My questions are addressed to everyone:

Those who view their adhd as something positive should they be told how to feel about their disability?

Fortune
02-08-16, 04:16 AM
No, nor should they tell other people who view their ADHD differently how to view their disability.

Adenosine
02-08-16, 08:57 AM
They're called splinter skills.I'm thinking about people like Daniel Tammet, not just the usual interest collections.

Fortune
02-08-16, 08:59 AM
I'm thinking about people like Daniel Tammet, not just the usual interest collections.

Okay. So they're called splinter skills. Or rather, splinter skills is the non-offensive term.

Lunacie
02-08-16, 12:56 PM
Okay. So they're called splinter skills. Or rather, splinter skills is the non-offensive term.

Some do find the term splinter skills offensive.

Google: S is for Stop Saying Savant Syndrome and Splinter Skills

Fortune
02-08-16, 05:48 PM
Fair.

Adenosine
02-08-16, 08:34 PM
Some do find the term splinter skills offensive.

Google: S is for Stop Saying Savant Syndrome and Splinter Skills
This? (http://www.printfriendly.com/print/?source=homepage&url=https%3A%2F%2Funstrangemind.wordpress.com%2F20 15%2F06%2F10%2Fs-is-for-stop-saying-savant-syndrome-and-splinter-skills%2F)

The author is probably right, to some extent, but they would right about every other word related to the issue. The term "autism" itself is as drenched in social bias as a racial slur, and "Asperger's" evokes positive stereotypes that can be equally simplistic.

Lunacie
02-08-16, 09:35 PM
This? (https://unstrangemind.wordpress.com/2015/06/10/s-is-for-stop-saying-savant-syndrome-and-splinter-skills/)

The author is probably right, to some extent, but they would right about every other word related to the issue. The term "autism" itself is as drenched in social bias as a racial slur, and "Asperger's" evokes positive stereotypes that can be equally simplistic.

Yes, but there is advertising on that page so it's a no-no to link to it.

Adenosine
02-08-16, 10:45 PM
Yes, but there is advertising on that page so it's a no-no to link to it.Sorry.

dvdnvwls
02-09-16, 04:50 PM
No, nor should they tell other people who view their ADHD differently how to view their disability.
There are many things that are simply true or simply false, and not subject to differences in an individual's point of view. There is such a thing as a personal point of view that isn't valid. And it isn't wrong to point out an invalid point of view, if there is one. Lacking in tact, perhaps, but not wrong.

Fortune
02-09-16, 07:52 PM
There are many things that are simply true or simply false, and not subject to differences in an individual's point of view. There is such a thing as a personal point of view that isn't valid. And it isn't wrong to point out an invalid point of view, if there is one. Lacking in tact, perhaps, but not wrong.

Of course there is such a thing as a personal point of view that isn't valid. Now tell me how telling someone to view their disability differently isn't invasive and doesn't violate personal boundaries.

More to the point, what good do you think can be achieved by doing this?

TygerSan
02-10-16, 01:55 PM
If you come to me and tell me flat out, no holes barred, that my personal viewpoint/experience with disability is invalid or wrong, I'm going to shut down immediately. If you tell me that my view is flat-out wrong, with no wiggle room whatsoever for differing opinions, I feel disrespected. If I feel disrespected, I'm not going to listen. That's pretty much as simple as it gets. It may not be rational. It may not even be based on any kind of factual notion of what's right and wrong but it's pretty much the fastest way to stop any kind of dialog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZmZzGxGpSs