View Full Version : Holistic Approach


outerspace7
01-06-15, 12:37 PM
Using the following to help me focus and have more motivation.

1) Eating More Organic
2) Eating More Healthier
3) Excercise/Cardio
4) Try To Make Plans With People Fill Schedule Up
5) Creating A Log
6) **cook healthy food in advance(thought of this just now)
7) supplements

Stevuke79
01-06-15, 12:54 PM
These all sound great.

I especially find that exercise and healthy eating (and planning for healthy eating) are huge for me. Without those, I find my meds don't even help.

And without structure, I could take 2,000 mg and would still be lost. (I've never actually tried 2,000mg, so I'm really conjecturing).

Fuzzy12
01-06-15, 01:33 PM
Great points. I should really do all those as well.


These all sound great.

I especially find that exercise and healthy eating (and planning for healthy eating) are huge for me. Without those, I find my meds don't even help.

And without structure, I could take 2,000 mg and would still be lost. (I've never actually tried 2,000mg, so I'm really conjecturing).

I'm guessing if you took 2000mg of Adderall in one day you probably wouldn't be able to focus..or do anything much at all...;)

Stevuke79
01-06-15, 01:51 PM
Right,.. it would definitely kill my appetite, .. that's for sure ;)

outerspace7
01-06-15, 08:09 PM
Yup, I think planning ahead with the food by making some ahead of time might save time so you know what your eating and don't have to waste time deciding what to eat; or don't fall into eating something less unhealthy.

Stevuke79
01-06-15, 10:08 PM
I'm curious outerS, do you do these things in addition to medication or instead? If the latter had you taken meds in the past and now you're off?

If so, and you have taken meds in the past, how does the 100% holistic approach compare?

outerspace7
01-07-15, 03:30 PM
I'm curious outerS, do you do these things in addition to medication or instead? If the latter had you taken meds in the past and now you're off?

If so, and you have taken meds in the past, how does the 100% holistic approach compare?

Holistic approach much better than drugs. Less side effects to none at all. Experimenting with supplements may cause side effects, but not nearly as bad as side effects of prescription drugs.

I never really tried a holisitic approach to the fullest, only aspects of it. I think holistic is important for everyone.

outerspace7
01-07-15, 03:31 PM
Eating More Organic
2) Eating More Healthier
3) Excercise/Cardio
4) Try To Make Plans With People Fill Schedule Up
5) Creating A Log
6) **cook healthy food in advance(thought of this just now)
7) supplements
8) Follow A Good Example - Like A Mentor. Or Someone To Follow An Example From To live Life By.

Stevuke79
01-07-15, 09:09 PM
Holistic approach much better than drugs. Less side effects to none at all. Experimenting with supplements may cause side effects, but not nearly as bad as side effects of prescription drugs.

I never really tried a holisitic approach to the fullest, only aspects of it. I think holistic is important for everyone.

I think everyone has to incorporate the holistic approach when attacking their ADHD.

So do you take medication as well? Have you taken in the past?

outerspace7
01-09-15, 10:26 PM
I think everyone has to incorporate the holistic approach when attacking their ADHD.

So do you take medication as well? Have you taken in the past?

I don't like talking about if I was taking medication because I don't like promoting taking medication.... but since you asked, I may have but not for more than 3-4 weeks then stopped before experiencing side effects.

This new approach is working pretty well! I did a lot more today than I usually do. I must be getting more nutrients, eating high nutrient dense food, to fuel my overactive mind.

It's definietely working in the focus, motivation, lowering anxiety situation.

Getting more studying done in shorter amount of time.

Eating healthy alone is helping so much.

SmashPotato
01-10-15, 04:12 AM
I tried the holistic approach. I stopped my meds from March this year. I don't eat any grains, legumes, milk, refined sugar or processed foods. Everything I eat I make 100% from scratch. I cut off all sources of overestimation - video games, TV, porn, sugary foods, etc.

My intention was to cause my dopamine receptors to upregulate. This is when dopamine is less abundant in the brain so your brain adapts by growing more receptors to make more of less dopamine. Over stimulation will have the opposite effect and cause your brain to remove dopamine receptors.

My diet consists of lots of veggies, potatoes, eggs, bone broth, some fruit and some meat/seafood and healthy fats like coconut oil/butter. I believe that saturated fats are healthy in moderate amounts, unlike vegetable oils which oxidise very easily and cause excess omega 6 to omega 3 ratio. I eat wild salmon a couple of times a week to get omega 3's. I drink only bottled water. I eat liver once a week (very nutrient dense). I take magnesium, iodine, zinc and vitamin D supplements as it's difficult to get these through diet and I make sure I buy quality supplements.

I can say the past 6 months have been very difficult for me. I lost 2 different jobs because of my ADD symptoms. One of which I left because I knew I couldn't sustain it (mentally demanding office work) and the other I was fired because I made too many mistakes (chef at pizza express). Over the past 6 months I have been constantly mentally drained. I would wake up and lie in bed staring into space for 2 hours every morning. I would sometimes just sit down to think for a minute and find 1 hour fly by before I knew it. I avoided group socialising because it was too taxing to keep up with the convo. I have been extremely stressed trying to keep up with my diet and from trying not to make any mistakes at work. Last year, on meds, I was in college and I felt in control of my life and felt clever and focused. Since stopping meds, I felt dumber and slower than the average person.

So, I have decided to go back on meds, and I feel this is the right decision for me. I know I probably could of done more to fight my symptoms naturally; I could of exercised more, I could of ate organic, I could of meditated, But I feel I have done enough to determine if I need medication or not.

I did see huge improvements in many areas, just not enough to be functional in today's workforce. The holistic approach may work for you but it didn't cut it for me. I am not giving up though. I still implement all of the above while now taking meds and I will continue to do more and more. Maybe one day I will be able to come off the medication for good. I hope so.

outerspace7
01-13-15, 09:37 PM
1/13/2015

Eating healthy:

Significantly more energy and motivation, focus. Getting more done everyday.

More energy to make healthy food and more studying done.

Kunga Dorji
01-14-15, 07:49 AM
Look carefully at sleep hygeine and anything to minimise stress responses.
Re exercise- it is not only cardio that is important.
Complex, detailed activities that help train the balance and proprioceptive systems give mere benefit than just cardio.
Also exercises that help eliminate forwards head posture are beneficial.
Re minimising stress response, also knowing that the stress response is minimised is essential, and this is where mindfulness practice becomes a cornerstone of effective ADHD management. After all, the sort of continuous self awareness developed through mindfulness practice is, in functional terms, the opposite of that sort of drifting consciousness that continually loses track of its point of reference. (ADHD tangenting = mindLESSness- not mindFULness).

Kunga Dorji
01-14-15, 07:55 AM
I tried the holistic approach. I stopped my meds from March this year. I don't eat any grains, legumes, milk, refined sugar or processed foods. Everything I eat I make 100% from scratch. I cut off all sources of overestimation - video games, TV, porn, sugary foods, etc.

My intention was to cause my dopamine receptors to upregulate. This is when dopamine is less abundant in the brain so your brain adapts by growing more receptors to make more of less dopamine. Over stimulation will have the opposite effect and cause your brain to remove dopamine receptors.

My diet consists of lots of veggies, potatoes, eggs, bone broth, some fruit and some meat/seafood and healthy fats like coconut oil/butter. I believe that saturated fats are healthy in moderate amounts, unlike vegetable oils which oxidise very easily and cause excess omega 6 to omega 3 ratio. I eat wild salmon a couple of times a week to get omega 3's. I drink only bottled water. I eat liver once a week (very nutrient dense). I take magnesium, iodine, zinc and vitamin D supplements as it's difficult to get these through diet and I make sure I buy quality supplements.

I can say the past 6 months have been very difficult for me. I lost 2 different jobs because of my ADD symptoms. One of which I left because I knew I couldn't sustain it (mentally demanding office work) and the other I was fired because I made too many mistakes (chef at pizza express). Over the past 6 months I have been constantly mentally drained. I would wake up and lie in bed staring into space for 2 hours every morning. I would sometimes just sit down to think for a minute and find 1 hour fly by before I knew it. I avoided group socialising because it was too taxing to keep up with the convo. I have been extremely stressed trying to keep up with my diet and from trying not to make any mistakes at work. Last year, on meds, I was in college and I felt in control of my life and felt clever and focused. Since stopping meds, I felt dumber and slower than the average person.

So, I have decided to go back on meds, and I feel this is the right decision for me. I know I probably could of done more to fight my symptoms naturally; I could of exercised more, I could of ate organic, I could of meditated, But I feel I have done enough to determine if I need medication or not.

I did see huge improvements in many areas, just not enough to be functional in today's workforce. The holistic approach may work for you but it didn't cut it for me. I am not giving up though. I still implement all of the above while now taking meds and I will continue to do more and more. Maybe one day I will be able to come off the medication for good. I hope so.

I may be being pedantic here-- but to me- a holistic approach includes using medications where they are helpful.

If you exclude the use of medications you are not being holistic- you are only using some of the available options.

I am probably the first to advocate a holistic approach- but I will use medication if needed- without hesitation.

I may go a week without medication- then in times of pressure/overwork , need 10mg dexamphetamine three times a day.

However- when I was focussing on the popular medication and ADHD coaching model (as per the Barkely approach) I needed 50mg dexamphetamine a day every day to keep working and keep out of trouble.

There really is no need to be exclusive in our approach.

sarek
01-14-15, 08:24 AM
I am quite amazed no one has mentioned meditation and self awareness yet. For me it does miracles for my impulsiveness and energy conservation. The thing is, the body mind system constantly wastes energy on unnecessary physical tension and on unneeded thoughts in the mind. With meditation and with body-based self awareness you can eliminate those drains.

In addition I have removed wheat from my diet. Not all gluten, just the wheat. Modern species of wheat are not good for the system.
This by itself has completely removed my afternoon low energy dip, which sometimes was so bad it became hard to keep my eyes open. Now, its gone.


In general, when you want to do a holistic approach you might think about using the chakra system as a guideline to which areas of yourself you can yet improve. Each chakra not only has an energetic meaning, they also each have specific physiological and psychological aspects.
By using this as a kind of framework, you are sure not to miss any aspects of your whole functioning.

Kunga Dorji
01-14-15, 05:59 PM
I am quite amazed no one has mentioned meditation and self awareness yet. For me it does miracles for my impulsiveness and energy conservation. The thing is, the body mind system constantly wastes energy on unnecessary physical tension and on unneeded thoughts in the mind. With meditation and with body-based self awareness you can eliminate those drains.

That is a good point Sarek- I was touching on it 2 posts above- but the issue of inefficient use of energy is a substantial one. It is not just muscle tension either- the sympathetic activation aspect is a very important one. When we are in a state of sympathetic dominance it is an energy output state- and it does lead to us getting depleted energetically.

There are a couple of other points in this vein too.
I have been doing QiGong and a little Tai Chi for 12 months now. I have been going once a week and doing little bits and pieces through the week- 2 minutes here or there- nothing like what has been recommended.

There are definite benefits:
1) I find it far easier to move into a very upright posture which substantially improves the clarity and vividness of my attention.3-4 minutes of standing Qi Gong meditation now produces substantial and rapid improvement.

2) In terms of managing my chronic pain issues the subtlety of movement inherent in Qi Gong now allows me to unlock most cases of neck and back spasm without any real force- and that is progressively increasing the stability of my neck. Pain feeds straight back into sympathetic overactivation, and that , in turn, destabilises attention and drains energy.

3) The improvement in my co-ordination and visuospatial organisation has been enormous. I am much less clumsy, and I lose things much less often.
Interestingly my learning capacity has improved as my visuospatial issues recede. I finally learned a long Buddhist mantra in Sanskrit (which I don't speak- so I cannot rely on learning the meaning- it is just brute memorisation). I had been battling with theat for years, but finally nailed it in a week. Quite a surprise.

There is increasing focus now in neuropsychological circles on the relationship between cognition and movement. I will post on some of the reading I am currently doing quite soon.


In addition I have removed wheat from my diet. Not all gluten, just the wheat. Modern species of wheat are not good for the system.
This by itself has completely removed my afternoon low energy dip, which sometimes was so bad it became hard to keep my eyes open. Now, its gone.


In general, when you want to do a holistic approach you might think about using the chakra system as a guideline to which areas of yourself you can yet improve. Each chakra not only has an energetic meaning, they also each have specific physiological and psychological aspects.
By using this as a kind of framework, you are sure not to miss any aspects of your whole functioning.

I would be really interested to hear more detail on both of these from you. Maybe you could write up a couple of articles for us? Getting good information on these is not easy.

Jongeman
01-16-15, 08:27 AM
SmashPotato great post thanks! You are very brave and very hands-on with your approach of getting in control of your life. I respect your audacity and courage of going on despite these set-backs.
Bravo you are inspiring!
Best to all of you btw ^_^

icarusinflames
05-06-15, 06:03 PM
In general, when you want to do a holistic approach you might think about using the chakra system as a guideline to which areas of yourself you can yet improve. Each chakra not only has an energetic meaning, they also each have specific physiological and psychological aspects.
By using this as a kind of framework, you are sure not to miss any aspects of your whole functioning.

This is fascinating to me. Sorry I know this is an old post, but I find it cool that others are using visual systems of thought to improve themselves. I was always attracted to anything that was very intellectual but represented in symbols or images, like you visualize the chakras.

My daughter is 9 and I noticed that she is incredibly oriented to visual communication. She draws me incredibly detailed pictures that show me what she would like to persuade me to do. For example, it will be a whole diagram of actions, with pictures, and arrows showing your choices you can make... leading you to hopefully go do something she wants, like get her a toy or play a game with her. She's delightful and I love the visual way of conveying thoughts.

Now the amazing old systems with these diagrams like chakras are profound if they would help a person actually improve health, through it.

I am more of a believe in visualization now, which is funny because I think the NT's are skeptical about it. But it is very effective for people who have a visual thinking component that is more accessible at times than other processes.

hg12345
05-06-15, 07:06 PM
Good points but it wouldn't help me without meds. I see clearly that diet and excersise makes a huge difference for me but it can't replace meds in any way.
For diet, the main thing for me is to stay away from sugar. For some reason sugar makes me have crazy mood swings and really tired.

bizarre101
05-30-15, 06:06 AM
if you feel well at cardio training, i have doubts you are adhd...

and hg12345 of course nothing replaces your meds, because you have a physical disease... logic 101 ?

Kunga Dorji
05-31-15, 09:59 PM
if you feel well at cardio training, i have doubts you are adhd...

and hg12345 of course nothing replaces your meds, because you have a physical disease... logic 101 ?

Cardio training will address the depression and the anxiety- not the underpinnings of the ADHD.
Martial arts (as recommended by Dr John Ratey- one on of the world's leading experts on ADHD) do address the underlying physical deficits in the cerebellum, vestibular system and basal ganglia- and through repetition and neuroplasticity- resolve them. A physical solution to a physical disease.

The rumination in ADHD is partially a mental habit though and that is very effectively addressed by wiring it out of existence with meditation. However- you need a good teacher.

bizarre101
06-07-15, 01:29 PM
i just saw the word chakra...

i dont know, but i think chakras could be/cover nerves, or perhaps i have read this before..

and as we all have an inflammation or weakening of central nerves (or something like that, imo) as well, it may be very good thing to balance chakras... as possibly yoga, tai chi and so do, too...

just cant get up to that...

Unmanagable
06-07-15, 01:52 PM
It's currently my only method of treatment, after 4ish years of mostly successfully treating with meds. Side effects have kicked my a** too hard and for too long and I have no energy left for the meds route. I was sent through the hoops of many other meds prior to my adhd diagnosis, too, with very unpleasant experiences I'd rather not have to repeat in even more trials.

Methods I have, and currently use (not specifically for adhd, but for all of my ills) include acupuncture, massage therapy, deep breathing techniques, yoga poses, rhythmic meditation, moving meditations, silent meditation, tinctures, tuning forks, neurofeedback, music, sun, nature, growing my own food, and foraging for wild and medicinal edibles.

I have much less immediate responsibility than I did when I was first diagnosed, and that helps tremendously in having time to seek out and follow through with all of that stuff, and I luckily live in an area where peeps barter for services in many cases, but that could all change at any given moment, as could no longer having access to meds.

I'm incredibly grateful that I had a chance to try the meds route and was able to pick up other methods of support that I found meaningful while relying on them to help me gather myself enough just to get through a day. Having both has been a lifesaver for me, I guarantee.

Kunga Dorji
06-07-15, 10:02 PM
if you feel well at cardio training, i have doubts you are adhd...

and hg12345 of course nothing replaces your meds, because you have a physical disease... logic 101 ?


If you need further clarification I suggest you look at the Book Spark (Hagerman, E. And Ratey Dr J).
On page 155 Ratey gives a first class case history of a Psychiatry Professor who recognised his own ADHD at a lecture that John Ratey gave.
The psychiatrist "Charles" had always coped with his ADHD through marathon running- but twisted his knee- which unmasked all his symptoms.
Treatment consisted of introduction of stimulants, then cessation of antidepressants, then resumption of a graded exercise program.
Then as his fitness recovered Charles recognised that the stimulants were limiting his athletic performance, and was able to drop all medication and go back to full training with no impairment of focus.

So- there is a well observed case history for you.

Kunga Dorji
06-07-15, 10:13 PM
i just saw the word chakra...

i dont know, but i think chakras could be/cover nerves, or perhaps i have read this before..

and as we all have an inflammation or weakening of central nerves (or something like that, imo) as well, it may be very good thing to balance chakras... as possibly yoga, tai chi and so do, too...

just cant get up to that...


I see the concept of chakras as something coming from an unfamiliar culture- and easily misinterpreted.

I do know that posture has a profound effect on mental state, and that is easily proven:
See this for a short presentation of the scientific evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmR2A9TnIso

I am a practicing Buddhist and very fussy about my meditation posture.
I use a simplistic understanding of chakras to visualise correct meditation posture as one in which the chakras are aligned in both the lateral and antero-posterior planes.

There is probably more to it than that- but I do know that when I adhere to correct meditation posture with my ear canals vertically above the centre of my gleno-humeral joints and the centre of my femoral acetabulum, my mind is more clear and alert.

Sure that is subjective evidence- but it matches with 4,000 years of teaching once we consider Taoist literature.

It is also observable that when I get my patients working with this posture they are calm and awake, and their pale faces turn pink. They report that their meditation has been easy and not troubled by chaotic mental activity.

We should be able to obtain some neurological correlates of this-- probably QEEG would be technically the easiest.

georgina
06-14-15, 05:46 PM
probably 3) Excercise/Cardio is the one most people has heard of, i am curious does it works for most people here ?

Kunga Dorji
06-16-15, 09:20 AM
[quote=Fuzzy12;1711378]Great points. I should really do all those as well.
/quote]

If you remember.

Kunga Dorji
06-16-15, 09:27 AM
i just saw the word chakra...

i dont know, but i think chakras could be/cover nerves, or perhaps i have read this before..

and as we all have an inflammation or weakening of central nerves (or something like that, imo) as well, it may be very good thing to balance chakras... as possibly yoga, tai chi and so do, too...

just cant get up to that...

The word "Chakra" comes from an information structure foreign to modern medicine.

A Westerner has to be very intellectually fluid to make it work for us-- otherwise the rigidity of our "scientific thinking" model prevent us from understanding it.
I have a very rough grasp on what the word chakra means. I can work with it and get useful results. I am no expert.
So you can work with the word "chakra" - or dismiss it.
That depends- are you "the quick" or "the dead"?

That is your choice- and the consequences of your choice are not my problem.