View Full Version : Munchausen's by Internet


Abi
02-01-15, 03:51 AM
Sometimes I wonder how many here suffer from this :

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Münchausen_by_Internet

Flory
02-01-15, 03:55 AM
Ive been reading loads about munchausens , factitiuous disorder lately its really fascinatin and equally creepy.

There was a case of a woman managing to get a hysterectomy and chemotherapy for faked cancer, went to great lengths such as faking medical records, not allowing her family to contact the doctors and vice versa

Flory
02-01-15, 03:57 AM
http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/factitious-disorders

This is a pretty good overview of factituous disorder

Factitious Disorders

What Are the Symptoms of Factitious Disorders?
Possible warning signs of factitious disorders include:

Dramatic but inconsistent medical history
Unclear symptoms that are not controllable and that become more severe or change once treatment has begun
Predictable relapses following improvement in the condition
Extensive knowledge of hospitals and/or medical terminology, as well as the textbook descriptions of illness
Presence of many surgical scars
Appearance of new or additional symptoms following negative test results
Presence of symptoms only when the patient is with others or being observed
Willingness or eagerness to have medical tests, operations, or other procedures
History of seeking treatment at many hospitals, clinics, and doctors offices, possibly even in different cities
Reluctance by the patient to allow health care professionals to meet with or talk to family members, friends, and prior doctors
What Causes Factitious Disorders?
The exact cause of factitious disorders is not known, but researchers are looking at the roles of biological and psychological factors in the development of these disorders. Some theories suggest that a history of abuse or neglect as a child, or a history of frequent illnesses that required hospitalization, might be factors in the development of the disorder.

BellaVita
02-01-15, 03:58 AM
That's freaky.

Abi
02-01-15, 04:03 AM
I wonder if there is a connection to borderline or histrionic personality disorders?

Flory
02-01-15, 04:10 AM
Yes , there is a suspected link!

http://psych.med.nyu.edu/content?ChunkIID=165426

BellaVita
02-01-15, 04:15 AM
I wonder if there is a connection to borderline or histrionic personality disorders?

I was LITERALLY just about to post those EXACT words.

Two minds think alike.

Flory
02-01-15, 04:20 AM
Also sociopathy

sarahsweets
02-01-15, 06:36 AM
I know the temptation is there to diagnose us with everything under the sun but it takes a doctor to do this.

BellaVita
02-01-15, 06:42 AM
I know the temptation is there to diagnose us with everything under the sun but it takes a doctor to do this.

I have to disagree. How many of us knew we had ADHD before getting professionally diagnosed? Many here.

I think it is possible for one to figure out what they have: by examining their life and asking others to report on their childhood, by deeply examining the diagnostic criteria and reading lots of scientific information about the disorder to see if they actually have it, and by having self-awareness...

If they do that, I think it's highly likely that a person can accurately determine whether or not they are being affected by a medical issue.

Corina86
02-01-15, 07:19 AM
@Sarah & Bella

The issue is not people who think they have ADHD, but haven't been diagnosed, it's people who know they're not ADHD but lie in order to get attention or something.

I agree it's creepy. Is there any actual explanation for this behaviour? How it starts, what is the purpose of it?

Fortune
02-01-15, 08:36 AM
There's also a tendency to conflate people who pretend to have something for attention with people who mistakenly believe they have something as well as people who may have somatic syndromes complete with symptom profiles and genuinely have something going on even if it's not what they think it is.

Flory
02-01-15, 11:45 AM
Munchauzens not to be confused with:
a somatic disorder: I.e some people experience pain and illness as a result of mental distress
Malingering: intentionally faking prolonging, exaggerating and illness for gain be it shelter, money, attention,
Hypochondria: experiencing intense fear and anxiety over your health and worrying you may have cancer when it is better explained by say an everyday headache.

The difference between munchausens and malingering is that the malingerer will fib to draw social security benefits for instance , the munchausens syndrome would like the idea of being committed and receiving massive medical attention they are extremely willing to undergo medical or psychological testing, or procedures such as surgeries

It is notoriously hard to diagnose because they bounce around to lots of different clinicians and doctors when doctors begin to catch on they dissappear to the next.

Flory
02-01-15, 12:11 PM
They will also spend a lot of time researching the illness and have "textbook like answers" or presentations of illness , they often get caught out by misunderstanding the symptoms or by having unlikely combinations of symptoms.

Greyhound1
02-01-15, 12:17 PM
This topic is bizarre. I guess people are always trying to be something they are not. I have spent most of my life pretending and attempting to be normal just to fit in.

I never thought about normal people faking an illness to fit in with us. We must be a lot cooler than I thought. Lol.

I am sure that in the NT world, most issues we have are looked at as weakness. That is such a cold place, I assume they come here for support and or sympathy. They probably can't receive that in the competitive NT world, I guess.

Flory
02-01-15, 12:30 PM
Great reply greyhound

Its in itself usually some form of mentla illness and/or
personality disorder the catch 22 is that when they are ever caught they dissappear or can be reluctant to accept diagnosis and treatment

midnightstar
02-01-15, 12:40 PM
I just don't understand why someone would want to pretend to have something they don't have, it's hard enough getting a diagnosis if you do genuinely have something because the doctors etc need to find out if you're faking symptoms or not

Flory
02-01-15, 12:44 PM
I just don't understand why someone would want to pretend to have something they don't have, it's hard enough getting a diagnosis if you do genuinely have something because the doctors etc need to find out if you're faking symptoms or not

It is really weird, isnt it ?

Another litle fact i have is that they will sometimes go to a lesser experienced clinician on purpose when they have the option to choose one

daveddd
02-01-15, 12:48 PM
I have to disagree. How many of us knew we had ADHD before getting professionally diagnosed? Many here.

I think it is possible for one to figure out what they have: by examining their life and asking others to report on their childhood, by deeply examining the diagnostic criteria and reading lots of scientific information about the disorder to see if they actually have it, and by having self-awareness...

If they do that, I think it's highly likely that a person can accurately determine whether or not they are being affected by a medical issue.

i don't think physical medical issues should be self diagnosed, thats dangerous

mental illness is different story, its already known how poorly trained a ton of Psych doctors are, and how dismissive they are of add in adults

there is evidence and studies to back that up

i guess unless someone can be in the others persons shoes they don't realize that they may actually be telling the person, "you just sit their and suffer "

daveddd
02-01-15, 12:49 PM
I just don't understand why someone would want to pretend to have something they don't have, it's hard enough getting a diagnosis if you do genuinely have something because the doctors etc need to find out if you're faking symptoms or not

drugs or attention

Flory
02-01-15, 12:50 PM
It can have a quite high morbidity/accidental death rate.
People with both kinds in a bid for diagnosis may inject themselves with bacteria, self injure etc etc

Then theres most effed up form which is munchausens biproxy
.....makin somebody else believe they are sick , usually someone in their care like a child, using a number of methods such as drug poisoning, putting bacteria in babies bottles etc etc

daveddd
02-01-15, 12:57 PM
you got the "medical student syndrome" too, where people start thinking they have symptoms of every disorder they read about

you think thats on this spectrum

Greyhound1
02-01-15, 12:57 PM
I know the temptation is there to diagnose us with everything under the sun but it takes a doctor to do this.

I think we are tempted because we inheritantly know something is wrong. When Drs. ignore or dismiss our issues is where it begins.

I have a lot of faith in Drs. but not too much. They are human and make lots of mistakes too. No one knows us better than ourselves.

I think taking an active role in our health care is very important. I am not supporting self-diagnosis but rather self awareness and knowledge of our issues. Having theories or suspicions after researching can be beneficial but leave the diagnosing to a Dr.

Flory
02-01-15, 12:58 PM
you got the "medical student syndrome" too, where people start thinking they have symptoms of every disorder they read about

you think thats on this spectrum

Yes definitely dave, risk factors for factituos disorder include people that work in healthcare proffessions.

It would be interesting to know in these cases whether they were attracted to the cateer because of factitious disorder or they developed it from being in that setting

daveddd
02-01-15, 01:02 PM
Yes definitely dave, risk factors for factituos disorder include people that work in healthcare proffessions.

It would be interesting to know in these cases whether they were attracted to the cateer because of factitious disorder or they developed it from being in that setting

great question

Flory
02-01-15, 01:51 PM
Pulled some more info on this, I'm finding it morbidly fascinating :/ lol
Epidemiology

The exact incidence of Münchhausen's syndrome is not known but it is rare.
A survey of 106 hospital doctors in Germany estimated an incidence of factitious disorder of 1.3%. The highest incidence was reported by neurologists and dermatologists.[5]
Studies suggest that up to 9% of hospitalised patients have a factitious disorder.[6]
9.3% of patients presenting with fever of unknown origin were found in one study to be suffering from Münchhausen's syndrome.[7]
Patients are more commonly male.[8]
Female patients do occasionally occur and are sometimes seen during pregnancy.[9]
Most patients are white.
Most cases reported in the literature are aged 30-50.

Aetiology and predisposing factors
There is little hard evidence of aetiology because it is a rare condition and it is difficult to engage people with Münchhausen's syndrome in analytic therapy.
There is suggestion that Münchhausen's syndrome and fabricated or induced illness by carers (formerly, Münchhausen's syndrome by proxy) may have much in common and they have been reported in the same individual.
Personality disorder, depression or substance abuse may feature.
Some theories suggest that the patient or carer may:[6]
Have suffered abuse or neglect as a child. The hospital is seen as a safe environment or a way to escape from everyday life.
Be trying to understand or cope with earlier serious illness by reliving the experience.
Be identifying with someone close who had a serious illness.
Have a very low self-image. They hope to strengthen their own identity or get sympathy for themselves or the person that they care for. The patient is also given a role in a social network by being admitted to hospital.
Have an inability to trust authority figures, such as doctors. They may feel the need to test them, to try to catch them out.
Are subjecting themselves to painful medical procedures as a form of self-punishment.

Fortune
02-01-15, 01:51 PM
The difference between munchausens and malingering is that the malingerer will fib to draw social security benefits for instance , the munchausens syndrome would like the idea of being committed and receiving massive medical attention they are extremely willing to undergo medical or psychological testing, or procedures such as surgeries


Just as a point of clarification, SSI/SSDI fraud is ridiculously low, like .5%, so there's not a horde of malingerers receiving benefits. That's a popular belief, and it's easy to feed into it. However, that only hurts people who legitimately need these benefits.

Flory
02-01-15, 01:53 PM
Just as a point of clarification, SSI/SSDI fraud is ridiculously low, like .5%, so there's not a horde of malingerers receiving benefits. That's a popular belief, and it's easy to feed into it. However, that only hurts people who legitimately need these benefits.

That wasn't my suggestion fortune, I'm on disability benefits so I wouldn't intend to do that. I am all too aware of the demonisation of those that draw benefits, I only have to look at the covers of the daily mail and people in my newsfeed to witness it. And yes it does hurt.

It was just an example off of the top of my head, a better one would have been something like people feigning injuries after a small fender bender (car crash) to extract large amounts of compensation,

Ps love the adventure time avatar it's one of my favourite shoes ^_^

Fortune
02-01-15, 02:15 PM
Oh, I didn't think you were trying to demonize anyone. I am kind of vigilant about it because it comes up at the drop of a hat sometimes.

And thanks - Adventure Time's much fun. :D

Flory
02-01-15, 02:32 PM
Oh, I didn't think you were trying to demonize anyone. I am kind of vigilant about it because it comes up at the drop of a hat sometimes.

And thanks - Adventure Time's much fun. :D

Yeah my neighbour mistook my support worker for a guest of somebody else in my building and said really mean things about me and how the government shouldnt be paying me to "sit on my ***" support worker told her to mind her damn business and that she has no idea what she is talking about

Ps....what is your favourite episode

Fortune
02-01-15, 02:43 PM
That's hard to answer. I would say that What Was Missing is one of my favorites, hence the video in my sig.

The start of the last season was really well done, and the lich very creepy.

Also, the episode in which the Ice King reverts to Simon.

Flory
02-01-15, 03:03 PM
Ah I love it all, some of my top faves are :

Trouble in lumpy space
Her parents
The eyes
The jiggler

Some of my favourites , LSP is probably one of my favourite characters:D, Im not ashamed to admit I have two big posters one in my lounge and bedroom ;)

Flory
02-01-15, 03:10 PM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O7LHK41VqcY lsp ^_^

Fortune
02-01-15, 05:07 PM
Lumpy Space Princess is awesome.

Lunacie
02-01-15, 05:30 PM
i don't think physical medical issues should be self diagnosed, thats dangerous

mental illness is different story, its already known how poorly trained a ton of Psych doctors are, and how dismissive they are of add in adults

there is evidence and studies to back that up

i guess unless someone can be in the others persons shoes they don't realize that they may actually be telling the person, "you just sit their and suffer "

It's not always dangerous, and sometimes it ends up being necessary.

It can be hard to get a diagnosis sometimes if you aren't having the
symptoms when you finally get an appointment with the doctor, like
for instance when I began having asthma. I self diagnosed and the
doctor later confirmed.

Or when you have a recurring problem, like my having bronchitis or
pneumonia several times, by now I know when I get those and I head
straight for the doctor's office.

Then there's the mom in Wichita whose 3 year old was sick and coughing.
She went to the doctor several times but nothing was helping. Then she
read in the news about several cases of whooping cough being diagnosed
in a neighboring county, and asked the doctor to test for that. He refused,
but she trusted her instincts and pushed for the test. The child did have
whooping cough and could have died. A variation of self-diagnosis, eh?

Flory
02-01-15, 06:02 PM
Just to highlight this is more about intentional deception through pathological lying(pseudologia fantastica) self injurious behaviour, interference with diagnostic tools and instruments (putting blood in urine samples for example) and manipulation during diagnostic process for the gain of a diagnosis of a medical or psychological condition to whatever end

As opposed to seeing spots on your tonsils knowing its strep throat and seeing you gp for antibiotice

Fortune
02-01-15, 06:24 PM
I would hesitate to assume anyone here is doing anything like that. I mean, I don't always think benefit of the doubt is deserved, but on a forum like this, I think benefit of the doubt is pretty important here, and taking people seriously at their word unless there's something blatant going on.

BellaVita
02-01-15, 10:33 PM
i don't think physical medical issues should be self diagnosed, thats dangerous

mental illness is different story, its already known how poorly trained a ton of Psych doctors are, and how dismissive they are of add in adults

there is evidence and studies to back that up

i guess unless someone can be in the others persons shoes they don't realize that they may actually be telling the person, "you just sit their and suffer "

I was tired and actually meant mental issues.

Greyhound1
02-01-15, 10:59 PM
Just to highlight this is more about intentional deception through pathological lying(pseudologia fantastica) self injurious behaviour, interference with diagnostic tools and instruments (putting blood in urine samples for example) and manipulation during diagnostic process for the gain of a diagnosis of a medical or psychological condition to whatever end

As opposed to seeing spots on your tonsils knowing its strep throat and seeing you gp for antibiotice

This reminds me of the many suburban kids who grew up living on golf courses pretending they come from the hood. Vanilla Ice started it all. Lol

TygerSan
02-03-15, 03:12 PM
There was somebody in another forum that I read who really did do this. I think it was one of the creepiest things that I've ever experienced. what was really creepy was that the forum was mainly geared towards parents with kids who had neurological conditions. This person pretended to be a young teen. It took a lot of forum sleuthing to reveal that they had done something very similar another form, and the stories just didn't quite add up.