View Full Version : Do you believe alcoholics or drug addicts shoud be allowed to take stimulants?


sarahsweets
03-17-15, 05:03 AM
I do. So many times I hear of people that are in recovery saying they dont take anything, incuding adhd meds because its considered addictive and mood altering, even though there are tons of studies proving that treating adhd can reduce the chances of drug and alcohol abuse and that untreated adhd can lead to alcohol and drug abuse.
What if someone had a past addiction to speed/meth/crack? Would they not be a candidate because their drug of choice was a stimulant therefore they shouldnt be allowed to take stimulants?

I am just curiouse because Ive heard of people in recovery being denied proper medication because of some irrational fear that the person will relapse or not responsibly take their meds. I guess it would be something that the addict would have to build trust with- making sure to communicate and be up front and honest with the doctor until a solid relationship was formed. All opinions are welcome just say them with kindness,compassion and empathy.

Stevuke79
03-17-15, 05:44 AM
so far as i know, the studies that have been done say that taking stimulant meds reduce the risk of future addiction, including addiction to the meds themselves.
so i think if we're going to have a policy based on science, we'll allow a recovering addict to take meds.

ive linked to some sources for this n pub med but i dont feel like looking through my past posts.

someothertime
03-17-15, 07:19 AM
i have no problem with this as part of a individual call with adequate ( usually more intense ) lifestyle intervention / monitoring / support.

here is the crux imho. well that's just it. without the supplimental guidance... it's the void and the out that intensify. the "history" is merely an indicator of past coping mechanism / propensity to crux. which manifests from lack of... not availability of.


so, yes. individual? well, if the prescriber sees little adherance/response to supporting therapies mostly amongst other indicators then on a one on one basis yes they may be "situationally" declined with this as a key factor. with ADHD, facilitation trumps history hands down.

Little Missy
03-17-15, 07:56 AM
Yes. But I truly believe that it depends upon the individual.

Little Missy
03-17-15, 08:51 AM
And, depending on the individual, it will/may change their lives forever.

willow129
03-17-15, 08:56 AM
I mean yeah, I feel like craving stimulation, therefore getting addicted to things, is a symptom of ADHD, so it doesn't surprise me at all to hear that med treatment reduces the propensity to become an addict.

I mean the thing is, I've known of different ADHDers with lots of different addictions (especially when they're untreated), it could be.... Alcohol, drugs...or it could be! Cigarettes, sex, exercise, the Internet! To me it's like...the fact that sometimes it's drugs/alcohol is bad luck, it could be anything and it depends on what's available. Does that make sense? So yeah, I think ADHD addicts should be allowed to be treated.

headsamess
03-17-15, 12:38 PM
If someone is self medicating and becomes psychologically dependant on drugs or alcohol should they even be branded addicts when a simple switch to medication works without withdrawal?

Stevuke79
03-17-15, 12:50 PM
If someone is self medicating and becomes psychologically dependant on drugs or alcohol should they even be branded addicts when a simple switch to medication works without withdrawal?

Forgive me if I've misunderstood, but I just want to make sure I understand. Is this what you are saying:

Someone who is using non-prescribed drugs or alcohol to self-medicate their disorders, could just as easily and effectively medicate themselves with legal prescription drugs taken as directed, and if they were to make the switch they would experience no withdrawal because the legal and illegal drugs are so similar.

Considering that, why do we consider the person taking the illegal drugs an "addict"? Isn't he doing the same thing the medicated person is doing, except for the fact that we technically choose to call one 'legal' and the other 'illegal'.

Did I misunderstand?

meadd823
03-17-15, 12:53 PM
After a period of "dry time" to let the brain "reset I think proper medical treatment along with ample supervision in the early phases of treatment would decrease the chances of "relapse". Why should some one be forever punished via denial for being able to figure some chemical changes were needed because "trying harder" just was not working!!!!

Naturally I am speaking from a bias as an addict no more thanks to better living through modern chemistry! !!!

headsamess
03-17-15, 01:01 PM
If someone can go from needing to get "high" on illegal and unprescribe drugs to medication without needing to get "high", then theres a difference. They no longer need to abuse drugs to escape their problems when medication helps to prevent the problems in a controlled manor with a a more clear focused mind set.

Stevuke79
03-17-15, 02:33 PM
If someone can go from needing to get "high" on illegal and unprescribe drugs to medication without needing to get "high", then theres a difference. They no longer need to abuse drugs to escape their problems when medication helps to prevent the problems in a controlled manor with a a more clear focused mind set.

I've not had any chemical addictions, so I don't know for sure but I don't think taking the prescription meds clears their mind so they don't need to get high.

I may be wrong, but I think they still experience all the withdrawal and other pains of getting clean.

headsamess
03-17-15, 02:53 PM
In that case they probably are addicts, but the point I was trying to make is that purely self medicating isn't anything to do with addiction.

daveddd
03-17-15, 07:43 PM
well, there are studies that show stimulants can prevent future addiction

there are none though, that say stimulants can stop addiction , in fact studies attempting to use medication to stop current addiction are usually negative

so id say the person would likely have to be clean for awhile

Stevuke79
03-17-15, 08:08 PM
well, there are studies that show stimulants can prevent future addiction

there are none though, that say stimulants can stop addiction , in fact studies attempting to use medication to stop current addiction are usually negative

so id say the person would likely have to be clean for awhile

:goodpost:

mctavish23
03-17-15, 10:39 PM
The Research On The Use Of ANY Stimulant Medication For The Treatment Of ADHD, As

DECREASING THE RISK OF A SUD (Substance Use Disorder) Is OVERWHELMING.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

Pilgrim
03-18-15, 01:27 AM
Before I started stimulint medication I use to drink too much. I went through a stage where I used a lot of the 'soft' drugs a lot. Looking back I was self medicating in a big way.

I ended up in the hospital for an unrelated issue and they sent me to the Psyciatrist. I broke down and told her my whole sordid story from start to finish. When the professor in charge read the report he sent me to an ADD specialist. Ironically the Psyciatrist who wrote the report tried to block me from getting stimulints; cause I would abuse them.
My ADD doctor ignored her ,thank god for that.

sarahsweets
03-18-15, 04:59 AM
Its so reassuring to see that you all for the most part support someone with addiction treatingt their adhd. I cant tell you some of the stigma I have faced myself due to my alcoholisim.

daveddd
03-18-15, 06:05 PM
Its so reassuring to see that you all for the most part support someone with addiction treatingt their adhd. I cant tell you some of the stigma I have faced myself due to my alcoholisim.

me too, i was a coke addict

originally in rehab i wasn't allowed concerta

once i was clean, i saw a doctor who was familiar with addiction and add(which i think all add docs should have some knowledge about addiction)

he had no problem with me taking stims and knew about my addiction past

Fuzzy12
03-18-15, 06:13 PM
Before I started taking any meds, I used to drink way too much as well. I craved a drink every evening (or earlier:rolleyes:). Once I started taking anti depressants the cravings stopped and it's the same with stimulants, no cravings though I still smoke like a chimney. I guess, my brain just needed something.

I think, it's crazy to have a general rule that if you are addicted to any substances, you can't take stimulants. It should really be decided on an individual basis. If there is a risk of stimulant abuse then maybe doctors can supervise their patients more or look out for any signs of abuse and definitely try and treat the addiction as well. If you have adhd, Stimulants might help with that.

rickymooston
03-21-15, 05:00 PM
When the professor in charge read the report he sent me to an ADD specialist. Ironically the Psyciatrist who wrote the report tried to block me from getting stimulints; cause I would abuse them.
My ADD doctor ignored her ,thank god for that.

Actually, it sounds logical to me; you were sent to a specialist and said specialist disagreed with a doctor who wasnt' a specialist. The reason you were sent to a specialist is because that doctor hopeful has more experience with people like yourself with addiction issues who need
treatment for the root cause of those issues : ADHD.

To answer the OP: "Do you believe alcoholics or drug addicts ..."

My answer: I think this is a medical question. I would assume that
a former addict would be properly monitored but treating the ADHD could
possibly be the right thing to do


Thanks for sharing your story.

rickymooston
03-21-15, 05:05 PM
Its so reassuring to see that you all for the most part support someone with addiction treatingt their adhd. I cant tell you some of the stigma I have faced myself due to my alcoholisim.

It is scary if this sort of decision is made based on "political opinion" as opposed to "informed medical opinion". ;).

I know many people who have been destroyed by alcohol. It is really hard to give up.

plindboe
03-31-15, 05:27 PM
I do. So many times I hear of people that are in recovery saying they dont take anything, incuding adhd meds because its considered addictive and mood altering, even though there are tons of studies proving that treating adhd can reduce the chances of drug and alcohol abuse and that untreated adhd can lead to alcohol and drug abuse.
What if someone had a past addiction to speed/meth/crack? Would they not be a candidate because their drug of choice was a stimulant therefore they shouldnt be allowed to take stimulants?

I am just curiouse because Ive heard of people in recovery being denied proper medication because of some irrational fear that the person will relapse or not responsibly take their meds. I guess it would be something that the addict would have to build trust with- making sure to communicate and be up front and honest with the doctor until a solid relationship was formed. All opinions are welcome just say them with kindness,compassion and empathy.

I was a serious alcoholic a few years ago (for about 3-4 years). The amounts I ingested was still way too much to be healthy and even though I quite enjoyed being drunk, it made me more and more depressed in the long run. I drank up to three bottles of wines every day. I never had cravings and withdrawal symptoms and such, so it was probably a more psychological dependence than a physical one. But I had lost complete control, and had to get drunk daily.

Anyway, after I started on dextroaemphetamine, I noticed that I for some unknown reason didn't really get the pleasure any more when I was drunk. It become pointless drinking, and I stopped from one day to the other. Today I rarely drink, but sometimes at parties I can have some glasses of wine and get a little drunk. This is the ideal for me, since my relationship to alcohol is now healthy and relaxed, as I only drink a little to a medium amount in social settings.

I realize that many professionals say that you have to stop drinking 100%, and that even one glass, can make you fall off the wagon and make you lose control again. It works differently for me, and perhaps a reason is that I'm still using dextroamphetamine, and even though I miss the feelings of happiness and excitement I had back in the day when I was drunk, I realize that that won't happen due to the medicine I'm on.

It really does seems paradoxical that a drug that's basically amphetamine, has stopped my problems with addiction and given me a healthy and normal relationship to alcohol, but that's what happened to me. That said, how it will help others, I don't know, so I won't call it a miracle cure that will definitely work for all alcoholics.

Abi
03-31-15, 05:35 PM
OP tl Dr. TOPIC RESPONSE: yes

Abi
03-31-15, 06:15 PM
I wish amph based meds were available here. I didn't do well with Ritalin but dex maybe different, especially if I take ER.

Pilgrim
03-31-15, 07:52 PM
Abi
Re: Do you believe alcoholics or drug addicts shoud be allowed to take stimulants?
I wish amph based meds were available here. I didn't do well with Ritalin but dex maybe different, especially if I take ER.


I feel sorry for you.


Anyway, after I started on dextroaemphetamine, I noticed that I for some unknown reason didn't really get the pleasure any more when I was drunk. It become pointless drinking, and I stopped from one day to the other. Today I rarely drink, but sometimes at parties I can have some glasses of wine and get a little drunk. This is the ideal for me, since my relationship to alcohol is now healthy and relaxed, as I only drink a little to a medium amount in social settings.

. It works differently for me, and perhaps a reason is that I'm still using dextroamphetamine, and even though I miss the feelings of happiness and excitement I had back in the day when I was drunk, I realize that that won't happen due to the medicine

I'm exactly like this.
One thing I can't really get my head around is really the lack of proper care for people with addictions. In my case, looking at my families it didn't take long to work out something wasn't right.
I've lost numerous members of my close family to the abuse of heroin because they where self medicating.
I do agree with Ricky that a lot of it has to do with clinical experience.
I think it's enough on the patients shoulder to bear, their problem, than the misguided and misdiagnosed opinions of people that don't or won't look at the problem close enough. Makes me mad.

mildadhd
04-03-15, 06:52 PM
Self medicated verses Professionally medicated

Professionally medicated, or/and be able to discuss personal self medicating behavior with a doctor you trust.





P

Powderbucket
04-24-15, 07:17 AM
Self medicated verses Professionally medicated

Professionally medicated, or/and be able to discuss personal self medicating behavior with a doctor you trust.
P

This is the route that I'm going in, and I couldn't agree with it more.

For me, the line between addiction and self-medication became so blurred. I thought I was an addict because I only felt calm and normal on certain pills. In a sense, this was me self-medicating. It was easy for me to realise that I need to stop, and either get pills from a professional or at least get some proper, expert advice and proper counselling. I wouldn't want the ADD to turn me into a depressed drug addict.

Personally, I think that self-medicating can be dangerous if it starts being detrimental to other areas of your life.

mctavish23
04-24-15, 10:04 PM
The Short Answer Is YES :yes:

The Long Answer is YES :yes:

One of the things I'm most proud of, is that just b4 my retirement, I made an

invited presented to the local Drug Court Team on the research on how THE

USE OF (ANY) STIMULANT DECREASES THE RISK OF SUD (Substance Use Dis-

-order); which led to their FIRST EVER MAJOR POLICY CHANGE (i.e., clients

with ADHD diagnoses and on medication from an informed physician (knows

they're an addict), ARE NOW ALLOWED TO TAKE THEIR MEDICATION (under

supervision) :yes:

BTW, there were NO contradictory data (dating back 22+ years). Zero, which

is why the answer is stil :yes:


u r welcome :cool:

Powderbucket
04-27-15, 02:54 PM
The Short Answer Is YES :yes:

The Long Answer is YES :yes:

.......

u r welcome :cool:

:yes:

I can't help but think that if you deny someone medication that could help them with their problem, are they not likely to just continue using whatever substance is that they perceive is "helping" them? That is, assuming that the talking-therapy doesn't work all that well on them.

I know someone who used to smoke and who was practically addicted to weed (smoked everyday, three times per day). They now take Ritalin when needed and also some anti-depressants and they no longer smoke cigarettes or weed.

Bouncingoffwall
06-05-15, 07:30 PM
In my case, yes. When my impulsivity, lack of focus and cravings for high-risk stimulation are dealt with, I don't feel the drive to engage in silly high-risk behaviors like substance abuse.

I've done many different drugs in my lifetime, including crystal meth. I can say that trying to get high off my supply of Concerta by double- or triple-dosing would feel terrible. It would be an extremely "dirty" high full of nasty side-effects. Methamphetamine was much better suited for a euphoric high, as there were far less peripheral nervous system effects at recreational doses. Ritalin and Methamphetamine are two VERY different drugs. I've even found Adderall to be very different than Methamphetamine.

And "alcoholic" and "addict" can imply a lifelong affliction in some circles, which I don't agree with. I think many substance users have undiagnosed mental health conditions - deal with the underlying conditions, and voila! The substance use resolves itself. People shouldn't be denied treatment because of a rocky history. Especially when the symptoms of ADHD can drive individuals towards substance use.

Sickle
06-05-15, 08:25 PM
My drug abuse occurs specifically in my manic states (alcohol, cocaine and hallucinogens) and those are long so I have been diagnosed as "dually diagnosed" but I don't worry about the "addict" aspect of things because when I would get manic and crash and burn again, I get the "polystubstance dependence" label but I never crave or have triggers to those drugs. I am also a lot different when it comes to drugs like moderate uses of caffeine, alcohol and cannabis. I don't consider sporadic use for "fun" the same as addiction. Also, I am quite schooled on cannabinoids and their medical uses. CBD is another cannabinoid which has benefits to various issues, like mood and psychosis. When I am manic, I will drink morning to night and will hang out with an ex of mine who uses cocaine and MDMA, LSD etc.

*Soapbox for a second (I completed the undergrad program and certificate as well as my bachelor's but I am more interested in being a mediator, for salary reasons).

Addiction has three main theories and the biological is one of them (i.e. genetic etc, self medication essentially), the moral character model (the person chose to defy society and has low self discipline, maturity) and the environmental stressor model which is the what led to this, what happened and how can you change?

The first model is the current accepted model. However in many cases, like those people we all knew in school who were hard into drugs and grew out of it. As well as other cases where the core issue being resolved helped the most. The moral theory, although a relevant component, seems to be swayed against nowadays. I live in a very liberal and heroin addicted state and people are beating up and robbing people for dope up here and are getting released and in clinics now and they get away with crimes that are pretty heinous.

I think the "I am a wonderful person who just has a disease" idea is not the best route to go. I have severe manic episodes and have done horrible things to people and although that mood was a high and I had little control during those periods, I loved being in that place. I think that we all have to realize that just because there are good people who go through rough patches, if you add psychopathy/sociopathy/narcissistic PD/and the more angry subtype of borderline PD (there are different types of BPD, the meaner/nastier type I refer to are mentioned by Linehan and are a minority) to any mental disorder on the Axis I, the personality disorder component is essentially when the person has a poor outcome, given the denial in all Cluster B personalities. Some BPDs can modify their emotional states to not control their world and few can rid themselves of the traits that they still have. I went there because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

However, in my case, with bipolar disorder on board, I need to have a stimulant to stay calm and there is research to indicate that is needed with both bipolar and ADHD. Ritalin and the Daytrana patch are my two meds and I don't smoke or drink alcohol and nothing more than a green tea because Ritalin is a med that those will cause anxiety with nicotine or alcohol so it kind of works itself. My cannabis use is limited to birthdays and special occasions but that CBD hash oil interests me, medically.

Also, Addiction and Dependence on one side of things are euphemisms for compliance. With SSRI drugs, the withdrawal is called "discontinuation syndrome" and is horrible for many. Seroquel had the same deal with me. A horrible "discontinuation syndrome". It was worse than Xanax which became withdrawal because oddly, when you tell the doctor you want to slowly taper off and you go through hell, they blame you. So I am not the best "establishment" NAMI/CHADD spokesperson because I have been on and off many psych meds and the easiest for me to stop taking was Desoxyn, rx methamphetamine tabs during the shortage because they didn't do anything compared to dexedrine. I had a rough time when I stopped Adderall for awhile. Louder and angrier. But coming off Xanax was hell.

sarahsweets
06-06-15, 05:27 AM
Are you saying that you arent an addict because your cannibus use is limited to special occasions? Or are you saying that it treats your bipolar off label? Im just trying to understand your post.

My drug abuse occurs specifically in my manic states (alcohol, cocaine and hallucinogens) and those are long so I have been diagnosed as "dually diagnosed" but I don't worry about the "addict" aspect of things because when I would get manic and crash and burn again, I get the "polystubstance dependence" label but I never crave or have triggers to those drugs. I am also a lot different when it comes to drugs like moderate uses of caffeine, alcohol and cannabis. I don't consider sporadic use for "fun" the same as addiction. Also, I am quite schooled on cannabinoids and their medical uses. CBD is another cannabinoid which has benefits to various issues, like mood and psychosis. When I am manic, I will drink morning to night and will hang out with an ex of mine who uses cocaine and MDMA, LSD etc.

*Soapbox for a second (I completed the undergrad program and certificate as well as my bachelor's but I am more interested in being a mediator, for salary reasons).

Addiction has three main theories and the biological is one of them (i.e. genetic etc, self medication essentially), the moral character model (the person chose to defy society and has low self discipline, maturity) and the environmental stressor model which is the what led to this, what happened and how can you change?

The first model is the current accepted model. However in many cases, like those people we all knew in school who were hard into drugs and grew out of it. As well as other cases where the core issue being resolved helped the most. The moral theory, although a relevant component, seems to be swayed against nowadays. I live in a very liberal and heroin addicted state and people are beating up and robbing people for dope up here and are getting released and in clinics now and they get away with crimes that are pretty heinous.

I think the "I am a wonderful person who just has a disease" idea is not the best route to go. I have severe manic episodes and have done horrible things to people and although that mood was a high and I had little control during those periods, I loved being in that place. I think that we all have to realize that just because there are good people who go through rough patches, if you add psychopathy/sociopathy/narcissistic PD/and the more angry subtype of borderline PD (there are different types of BPD, the meaner/nastier type I refer to are mentioned by Linehan and are a minority) to any mental disorder on the Axis I, the personality disorder component is essentially when the person has a poor outcome, given the denial in all Cluster B personalities. Some BPDs can modify their emotional states to not control their world and few can rid themselves of the traits that they still have. I went there because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

However, in my case, with bipolar disorder on board, I need to have a stimulant to stay calm and there is research to indicate that is needed with both bipolar and ADHD. Ritalin and the Daytrana patch are my two meds and I don't smoke or drink alcohol and nothing more than a green tea because Ritalin is a med that those will cause anxiety with nicotine or alcohol so it kind of works itself. My cannabis use is limited to birthdays and special occasions but that CBD hash oil interests me, medically.

Also, Addiction and Dependence on one side of things are euphemisms for compliance. With SSRI drugs, the withdrawal is called "discontinuation syndrome" and is horrible for many. Seroquel had the same deal with me. A horrible "discontinuation syndrome". It was worse than Xanax which became withdrawal because oddly, when you tell the doctor you want to slowly taper off and you go through hell, they blame you. So I am not the best "establishment" NAMI/CHADD spokesperson because I have been on and off many psych meds and the easiest for me to stop taking was Desoxyn, rx methamphetamine tabs during the shortage because they didn't do anything compared to dexedrine. I had a rough time when I stopped Adderall for awhile. Louder and angrier. But coming off Xanax was hell.

Skyf@ll
06-07-15, 01:58 AM
The way I've been drinking over the last two weeks certainly qualifies me as being an alcoholic. Until now Ive rarely drank this year apart from the odd binge drink at the weekends. So if I stop tomorrow, am I a recovering alcoholic or simply someone who is back on the wagon?

Apoligies for any grammar or spelling mistakes....on my phone....drunk as a skunk!

irdo123
06-10-15, 04:49 PM
I think there is two stories to this issue. Some addiction specialists claim that substitute treatment will keep the addiction active and a real problematic relapse is more probable than if the person would be totally abstinent. There may be some differences between cases but I am leening towards this explanation. I have ADD myself and had some addiction issues from now and then and I feel that the only thing that works for me is abstinance from all sorts of stimulation. Plus that makes your brain more sensitive to stimulation with lower intensity- which is very good.

rickymooston
06-13-15, 11:17 PM
So if I stop tomorrow, am I a recovering alcoholic or simply someone who is back on the wagon?


It sounds like you are in the early stages of a drinking problem.

I've seen lives ruined.

If you stop today, that's a good thing. Tomorrow never comes; this is an adhd forum.

ADXP
07-25-15, 03:41 PM
so far as i know, the studies that have been done say that taking stimulant meds reduce the risk of future addiction, including addiction to the meds themselves.
so i think if we're going to have a policy based on science, we'll allow a recovering addict to take meds.

ive linked to some sources for this n pub med but i dont feel like looking through my past posts.



Before we label anyone as an addict we should ask ourselves first why & what was the reason that compelled them to have a need to a certain chemicals eg drugs etc... in the very beginning.

A deeper reflection is needed to answer this question.

daveddd
07-25-15, 03:44 PM
Before we label anyone as an addict we should ask ourselves first why & what was the reason that compelled them to have a need to a certain chemicals eg drugs etc... in the very beginning.

A deeper reflection is needed to answer this question.

yes,every addict has a story and a reason

ADXP
07-26-15, 03:38 PM
Again this question is the same with which comes first? The chicken or the egg?

I do believed that the term addiction is manufactured by an industry that is profiting from the vulnerability of people. The industry organize the labeling so profound to program the mind of the entire population to condemn this vulnerability. We are so brainwashed & as a result we believe that this is a sign of weakness that if we are strong enough we can kick this habit on our own. Or it is our fault that we are consumed by alcohol or drugs & other chemicals.

An addiction is a manifestation of a need. A need to cure what is bothersome to us. A vulnerability that we as humans are made of. This need feeds off on another need & our brain become entrench to this pattern that we react like in an auto reset manner.Alcohol is so potent that it can binds to all the neurotransmitters of our brain paralyzing our capacity to make new decisions after exposure to it. There is yet no drug that is found to reverse the effects of alcohol in the brain. It is an uncontrollable substance so powerful it is beyond the reach of our willpower.

I think alcohol induced dependency is no difference from ADD. It originates from trauma or damage in our brain. In conclusion if people find relief in taking whatever kind of medication that would relieve them it is their right to do so.

sarahsweets
07-26-15, 04:00 PM
I think alcohol induced dependency is no difference from ADD. It originates from trauma or damage in our brain. In conclusion if people find relief in taking whatever kind of medication that would relieve them it is their right to do so.
Do you mean that trauma causes adhd? Other than a traumatic brain injury, it is my understanding that adhd is primarily genetic. And are you saying people should take whatever they want to treat themselves including illegal drugs and alcohol?

daveddd
07-26-15, 07:52 PM
Again this question is the same with which comes first? The chicken or the egg?

I do believed that the term addiction is manufactured by an industry that is profiting from the vulnerability of people. The industry organize the labeling so profound to program the mind of the entire population to condemn this vulnerability. We are so brainwashed & as a result we believe that this is a sign of weakness that if we are strong enough we can kick this habit on our own. Or it is our fault that we are consumed by alcohol or drugs & other chemicals.

An addiction is a manifestation of a need. A need to cure what is bothersome to us. A vulnerability that we as humans are made of. This need feeds off on another need & our brain become entrench to this pattern that we react like in an auto reset manner.Alcohol is so potent that it can binds to all the neurotransmitters of our brain paralyzing our capacity to make new decisions after exposure to it. There is yet no drug that is found to reverse the effects of alcohol in the brain. It is an uncontrollable substance so powerful it is beyond the reach of our willpower.

I think alcohol induced dependency is no difference from ADD. It originates from trauma or damage in our brain. In conclusion if people find relief in taking whatever kind of medication that would relieve them it is their right to do so.

i don't know much about brain damage and alcohol, but yes experiencing traumatic events is definitely one reason some people drink

daveddd
07-26-15, 08:01 PM
Again this question is the same with which comes first? The chicken or the egg?

I do believed that the term addiction is manufactured by an industry that is profiting from the vulnerability of people. The industry organize the labeling so profound to program the mind of the entire population to condemn this vulnerability. We are so brainwashed & as a result we believe that this is a sign of weakness that if we are strong enough we can kick this habit on our own. Or it is our fault that we are consumed by alcohol or drugs & other chemicals.

An addiction is a manifestation of a need. A need to cure what is bothersome to us. A vulnerability that we as humans are made of. This need feeds off on another need & our brain become entrench to this pattern that we react like in an auto reset manner.Alcohol is so potent that it can binds to all the neurotransmitters of our brain paralyzing our capacity to make new decisions after exposure to it. There is yet no drug that is found to reverse the effects of alcohol in the brain. It is an uncontrollable substance so powerful it is beyond the reach of our willpower.

I think alcohol induced dependency is no difference from ADD. It originates from trauma or damage in our brain. In conclusion if people find relief in taking whatever kind of medication that would relieve them it is their right to do so.


"I do believed that the term addiction is manufactured by an industry that is profiting from the vulnerability of people. The industry organize the labeling so profound to program the mind of the entire population to condemn this vulnerability. We are so brainwashed & as a result we believe that this is a sign of weakness that if we are strong enough we can kick this habit on our own"


some people i met and myself, while in the throws of addiction was very real and very life destroying

i was addicting to cocaine for awhile , what i was deserved a label

and i was able to beat it on my own


do you happen to be "vulnerable" to a substance right now

if so , a word of advice, rationalizing and minimizing will be of no help in the end

ADXP
07-28-15, 12:38 PM
There is a study that reveals as alcohol dependency is the hardest drug to treat or reverse. This study shows how alcohol affects the brain. It can bind in all of the neurotransmitters in the brain resulting in the paralysis to most of the cognitive function.

You are missing my very point in this comment. I am pointing out to the false assumption of most rehab centers which believes that people with alcohol dependency just pull their own bootstraps & make a decision to come to rehab for treatment. My point is how do you expect someone whose brain is paralyzed can make such a decision? Decisions are result of the brain function insynchrony of all the parts involved. They cannot make a conscious choice if the brain is impaired to do so. Expecting that alcohol dependency is within the realm of having choices or freewill is not supported by facts of the most recent studies. Most rehab centers are funded or classified as non profit org which depends on grants or funded by the state or the government. They are generating profit or employment from their existence. In order for them to continue to exist they must have clients that they can claim when they ask for funding. Why would they cure alcoholism if they are going to lose the very source of their existence? Those who profits from it must continue to have these clients & have no real interest in solving the cause of the problem but to keep it going for their own self serving agenda. In the opposite my point is actually driven on how this issue not just difficult for someone who is afflicted with it rather than almost impossible to conquer it. There is that whole industry profiting from alcohol.

sarahsweets
07-28-15, 02:03 PM
My point is how do you expect someone whose brain is paralyzed can make such a decision? Decisions are result of the brain function insynchrony of all the parts involved. They cannot make a conscious choice if the brain is impaired to do so.]/quote]
I drank 3 large bottles of merlot everyday, all day long until I got sober. I made a choice to get sober because the pain was so great I couldnt stand it and had to make a change. Most rehab centers are funded or classified as non profit org which depends on grants or funded by the state or the government.
This may be true for private rehabs but not state funded or federally funded instutions at least not in my experience. When you have insurance, you get rehab, when you do not, you get a state hospital with a 7 day dry out period then they hand you a meeting list for AA and send you on your way. The governments sponsored treatment programs need more help and funding, not less. Last week I had a speaking commitment at a prison halfway house for women. 500 inmates all there for substance abuse. Guess when they had AA and NA meetings while they were there? When people like me brought them into the prison. The programs they had were basic medical care and various groups, thats it. Understaffed and underpaid. Why would they cure alcoholism if they are going to lose the very source of their existence? Those who profits from it must continue to have these clients & have no real interest in solving the cause of the problem but to keep it going for their own self serving agenda.
Im sorry but this is BS. They cant cure alcoholism in rehab because no one has come up with a cure for alcoholism. The kind of conspiracy theories you are talking about involve the private sector if at all. Treatment programs that have anything to do with the government are SEVERELY underfunded. The prison system gets more funding then anything mental health related.
There is that whole industry profiting from alcohol.
The industries profiting from alcohol are the companies who make it, cigarette manufacturers and possibly the insurance companies. Substance abuse facilities, hospitals and treatment centers that have any thing from the government involved are not big money makers.