View Full Version : Do dogs have affective consciousness?


mildadhd
04-21-15, 08:22 PM
Do dogs have affective consciousness?


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mildadhd
04-21-15, 09:11 PM
Do cats have affective consciousness?

I vote "yes" for both questions.

If not, I sure would like to hear the explanation why not?


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Greyhound1
04-21-15, 09:51 PM
Yep, this says all mammals.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053810004001187

mildadhd
04-21-15, 10:20 PM
Yep, this says all mammals.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053810004001187

Thanks for the article, abstract!

..Secondary awareness processes, because of their more conditional, contextually situated nature, are more difficult to understand in any neuroscientific detail.

In other words, the information-processing brain functions, critical for cognitive consciousness, are harder to study in other animals than the more homologous emotional/motivational affective state functions of the brain.

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TheChemicals
04-22-15, 04:11 AM
mebe, i dont know about half dogs though

mildadhd
04-22-15, 07:25 PM
mebe, i dont know about half dogs though

The dogs you do know works.



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mildadhd
04-22-15, 07:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-admRGFVNM

Abi
04-22-15, 08:20 PM
I see no references to the term "affective consciousness" except in references to articles by Jaak Paanskepp.

I therefore voted "other"

mildadhd
04-22-15, 09:32 PM
Dr. Jaak Panksepp, a neuroscientist at Washington State University who wrote the book Affective Neuroscience and is one of the most important researchers in the field, calls the core emotion systems the "blue-ribbon emotions," because they "generate well-organized behavior sequences that can be evoked by localized electrical stimulation of the brain." (*5)

This means that when you stimulate the brain systems for one of the core emotions, you always get the same behaviors from the animal.

If you stimulate the anger system, the animal snarls and bites.

If you stimulate the fear system, the animal freezes or runs away.

Electrodes in the social attachment system cause the animal to make separation calls, and electrodes in the "SEEKING" system make the animal start moving forward, sniffing, and exploring its environment.

When you stimulate these parts of the brain in people, they don't snarl and bite, but they report the same emotions animals show.


People and animals (and possibly birds) are born with these emotions--they don't learn them from their mothers or from the environment--and neuroscientists know a fair amount about how they work inside the brain.




-Temple Grandin & Catherine Johnson: "Animals Make Us Human", (Chapter 1, What Do Animals Need?), P 5-6.



i!i i!i

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pwI8ti6Jhk

mildadhd
04-22-15, 09:50 PM
"Brains begin building conscious minds not at the level of the cerebral cortex but rather at the level of the brain stem.

Primordial feelings are not only the first images generated by the brain but also immediate manifestations of sentience.

They are the protoself foundation for more complex levels of self.

These ideas run counter to widely accepted views, although Jaak Panksepp (cited earlier) has defended a comparable position and so has Rodolfo Llinas.

But the conscious mind as we know it is a far different affair from the conscious mind that emerges in the brain stem, and on this point there probably is universal agreement.

The cerebral cortices endow the mind-making process with a profusion of images that, as Hamlet might put it, go far beyond anything that poor Horatio could ever dream of, in heaven and earth."


"Conscious minds begin when self comes to mind, when brains add a self process to the mind mix, modestly at first but quite robustly later.

The self is built in distinct steps grounded on the protoself.

The first step is the generation of primordial feelings, the elementary feelings of existence that spring spontaneously from the protoself.

Next is the core self.

The core self is about action--specifically, about a relationship between the organism and the object.

The core self unfolds in a sequence of images that describe an object engaging the protoself and modifying that protoself, including its primordial feelings.

Finally, there is the autobiographical self.

This self is defined in terms of biographical knowledge pertaining to the past as well as the anticipated future.

The multiple images whose ensemble defines a biography generate pulses of core self whose aggregate constitutes an autobiographical self."..




Antonio Damasio, "Self Comes To Mind", "Constructing The Conscious Brain", (Chapter: "Awakenings", A Preview of Main Ideas) p 23-24.


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Lunacie
04-22-15, 10:23 PM
Could you please explain what this has to do with humans having ADHD?
I'm not seeing the connection and the point of this.

mildadhd
04-22-15, 10:37 PM
Could you please explain what this has to do with humans having ADHD?
I'm not seeing the connection and the point of this.



Do you see what the Affective Neuroscientific terminology has to do with Humans, discussed by Temple Grandin in the video?

Let me think about your question..

"..what this has to do with humans having ADHD?".



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sarahsweets
04-23-15, 04:44 AM
Can someone explain to my what affective consciousness is in laymans terms?

mildadhd
04-26-15, 10:09 AM
Could you please explain what this has to do with humans having ADHD?
I'm not seeing the connection and the point of this.


Consciouness begins with affective consciousness.

I would be happy to explore raw emotional-affective consciousness and ADHD in the thread, "Unregulated Raw Emotions and ADHD"

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168079




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Abi
04-26-15, 10:28 AM
Isn't Temple Grandin like a vet?

daveddd
04-26-15, 10:30 AM
I see no references to the term "affective consciousness" except in references to articles by Jaak Paanskepp.

I therefore voted "other"

paanskep is one of the most highly cited researchers i come across in all of my psychology reading

most schools as well

daveddd
04-26-15, 10:35 AM
Do you see what the Affective Neuroscientific terminology has to do with Humans, discussed by Temple Grandin in the video?

Let me think about your question..

"..what this has to do with humans having ADHD?".



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I'm familiar with these things

but maybe it would help if you clearly laid out how you think add comes about in these terms

mildadhd
04-26-15, 10:45 AM
Raw emotions are not everyday occurrences for mature humans, but most can remember clenching their fists and turning red in anger, being incredibly scared, feeling both deep sadness and joy.

Our task here will be to share evidence about such primary-process mechanisms of mental life, much of which comes from the study of animals.

Such feelings create an energetic form of consciousness--one that is full of affective intensity--that we will call affective consciousness.

Primal feelings are not intrinsically bright and intelligent, but they were built into our brains because they are remarkably useful for immediately dealing with the world and learning about its potential.

Primal affects are ancestral memories that have helped us to survive.

There are many ways these ancient brain networks can make us feel--experiences we sometimes call core emotional affects and raw emotional feelings.

Regardless of which term we use, we are talking about the same thing.


Panksepp/Biven, "The Archaeology of Mind", (Chapter: Ancestral Passions), P 13.



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mildadhd
04-26-15, 11:29 AM
I'm familiar with these things

but maybe it would help if you clearly laid out how you think add comes about in these terms

This thread is meant to explore basic affective consciousness common in all mammals, including humans.

To discuss raw emotional-affective conscious and ADHD more clearly..

Please, consider the following additional terminology clarification before we proceed: (Dr. Panksepp).

..see thread discussion "Unregulated Raw Emotions and ADHD", and the opening post quote regarding clarification in terminology, to start.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168079

Looking forward to discussing raw emotions and ADHD topics more in that thread.


Thanks


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mildadhd
04-26-15, 12:11 PM
Can someone explain to my what affective consciousness is in laymans terms?

Babies have affective consciousness.

Adults have affective consciousness and cognitive consciousness.


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Abi
04-26-15, 12:46 PM
paanskep is one of the most highly cited researchers i come across in all of my psychology reading

most schools as well


Selective reading?

Abi
04-26-15, 12:48 PM
Babies have affective consciousness.

Adults have affective consciousness and cognitive consciousness.


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Does not answer the question

It's the equivalent of saying "I like to eat chocolate" in response to the question "What is chocolate?"

Lunacie
04-26-15, 12:53 PM
This thread is meant to explore basic affective consciousness common in all mammals, including humans.

To discuss raw emotional-affective conscious and ADHD more clearly..



..see thread discussion "Unregulated Raw Emotions and ADHD", and the opening post quote regarding clarification in terminology, to start.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168079

Looking forward to discussing raw emotions and ADHD topics more in that thread.


Thanks


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According to your link in post #9, dogs do not have affective consciousness.

daveddd
04-26-15, 02:30 PM
Selective reading?

hardly

id be willing to bet you won't find anyone with a psychology library as well rounded as mine , its quite extensive

its my escape

mildadhd
04-26-15, 02:59 PM
hardly

id be willing to bet you won't find anyone with a psychology library as well rounded as mine , its quite extensive

its my escape

I hope someday you and others will adopt into your libraries, the bottom-up affective neuroscientific terminology recommended by Dr. Panksepp.



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daveddd
04-26-15, 03:54 PM
I hope someday you and others will adopt into your libraries, the bottom-up affective neuroscientific terminology recommended by Dr. Panksepp.



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i try read a little of everything, it will give you a better view of psychology as a whole

the one thing about panskep I'm interested in is reseting the primary emotions

midnightstar
04-26-15, 04:18 PM
I think they do have affective consciousness, my understanding is that all animals have it.

mildadhd
04-26-15, 05:20 PM
i try read a little of everything, it will give you a better view of psychology as a whole

the one thing about panskep I'm interested in is reseting the primary emotions


I hope someday you will adopt into your psychological library, the bottom-up affective neuroscientific terminology recommended by Dr. Panksepp, to help you understand psychology involving the primary emotional-affects.

I know I would really appreciate having a discussion about primary emotional affects, using the terminology recommended by Prof Panksepp.

I have not experienced a single discussion with another member using primary emotional-affective terminology, recommended by Prof Panksepp, the whole time I have been a member at ADDF.


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mildadhd
04-26-15, 06:16 PM
I think they do have affective consciousness, my understanding is that all animals have it.

Thanks

"It" is preverbal meaning the preverbal biological mechanisms involved in affective consciousness, evolved before the verbal biological mechanisms to discuss them.

Making "it", (preverbal affective consciousness) really hard to verbally discuss, without considering the actual biological mechanisms involved.

That being said, there are only 7 basic mammalian bottom-up primary unconditioned emotional-affective response systems to learn.

SEEKING, RAGE, FEAR, LUST, CARE, PANIC/GRIEF and PLAY


Layman Please leave room for learning about preverbal bottom-up psychology, preceding top-down psychology.

I am learning to.


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mildadhd
04-26-15, 11:57 PM
I have made a mistake.

I am thankful to all the members who have been clearly contributing to this great thread discussion about affective consciousness, so far.



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TygerSan
04-27-15, 09:16 AM
Unsure exactly what is meant by affective consciousness, but seeing as though the basal ganglia and other sub cortical structures govern basic calculations of motivational value, I'd be willing to say that most organisms that are able to learn have the basic building blocks of affective reasoning.

Going a little more far afield, single celled organisms may be able to learn to approach/avoid different environments. Invertebrates definitely have the ability to learn this behavior and their nervous systems don't even have a brain, so to speak. Basic affective learning is an ancient survival mechanism.

As an aside, whatever books/ talks Panksepp has published, he has also published a fair number of primary research articles, a lot of which center on play as an important aspect of juvenile development. I can't comment on his books but the primary research is pretty solid.

mildadhd
04-28-15, 08:02 PM
People and animals (and possibly birds) are born with these emotions--they don't learn them from their mothers or from the environment--and neuroscientists know a fair amount about how they work inside the brain.


-Temple Grandin & Catherine Johnson: "Animals Make Us Human", (Chapter 1, What Do Animals Need?), P 5-6.



In mammals, SEEKING, RAGE, FEAR, LUST, CARE, GRIEF/PANIC, and PLAY primary unconditioned emotional-affective response systems are genetic, not learned. (Below the amygdala)

They make secondary learning possible. (Above the amygdala)



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