View Full Version : The next evolutionary jump for man


SB_UK
04-29-15, 10:27 AM
- looking at it from all angles -

will be for us to no longer need food.

Every line I follow leads back to transcending the need for food for life.

Abi
04-29-15, 10:35 AM
I agree.

We will evolve to turn green and photosynthesise.

mildadhd
04-29-15, 09:14 PM
To base welfare programs on the core emotion systems in the brain.

(Paraphrasing Temple Grandin/Catherine Johnson)



P

mildadhd
04-29-15, 09:58 PM
- looking at it from all angles -

will be for us to no longer need food.

Every line I follow leads back to transcending the need for food for life.

3 separate overlapping human needs?

Homeostatic needs

Emotional needs

Sensory needs


P?

sarek
04-30-15, 05:19 AM
I believe the next evolutionary step for individuals and for mankind is to become true master of ourselves and learn to live in the now continuously.

Once we do that, ego and false self drops out of the equation. We will no longer be driven by our needs and fears and all need for competition will vanish.

This, in turn, will take care of everything else that we need to change.

SB_UK
04-30-15, 06:18 AM
I agree.

We will evolve to turn green and photosynthesise.

<img src = "http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-p0NEMeo1vYA/VG0I16rYxWI/AAAAAAAAAwE/tuN5oIoBj3U/s1600/think_green_by_herojunky-d5asp5f.jpg" width = 800>

SB_UK
05-01-15, 06:16 AM
To base welfare programs on the core emotion systems in the brain.

(Paraphrasing Temple Grandin/Catherine Johnson)



P

A moral society shaped towards facilitating fun (the correct defn) for all.

What's the correct defn ?
One in which everybody (animal, vegetable and mineral) is a winner.

SB_UK
05-01-15, 06:16 AM
3 separate overlapping human needs?

Homeostatic needs

Emotional needs

Sensory needs


P?

Homeostatic needs - metabolically efficient

Emotional needs - pro-social species

Sensory needs - pained sensory overload ie sensitivity to information

SB_UK
05-01-15, 06:19 AM
I believe the next evolutionary step for individuals and for mankind is to become true master of ourselves and learn to live in the now continuously.

Once we do that, ego and false self drops out of the equation. We will no longer be driven by our needs and fears and all need for competition will vanish.

This, in turn, will take care of everything else that we need to change.

Exactly - should be a consequence of A moral society shaped towards facilitating fun (the correct defn) for all.

What's the correct defn ?
One in which everybody (animal, vegetable and mineral) is a winner.

SB_UK
05-01-15, 06:21 AM
Everything to do with fun (incorrect defn) associates with ego - I am better than you, I am richer than you, I want more than you

- and everything to do with fun (correct defn) associates with an intimately connected model of what we call reality ie a model in which everybody's (animal, vegetable and mineral) a winner.

SB_UK
05-01-15, 06:24 AM
Homeostatic needs - metabolically efficient

Emotional needs - pro-social species

Sensory needs - pained sensory overload ie sensitivity to information

Emotional need - bliss
Sensory need - just whatever we happen to be seeing, hearing, touching is sufficient
Homeostatic need - neuro/hormonal sensitivity

SB_UK
05-01-15, 06:28 AM
but but but

- it's hard to imagine human beings retaining their current habit with over-consumption
- the simple answer might be a probiotic/prebiotic gut bacterial small chain fatty acid based ketosis state with large amounts of exercise, intermittent fasting and complete fasting

- but but but -

It feels too good being in silence in the sun - and it appears to radically cut appetite (all exptally proven) ... ... get us out of a large hole if we were to escape the NEED for food for life.

Estimates of all Western countries (all using harsh agricultural practices) having few harvests left in their soil before it's barren.

eg
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-facing-agricultural-crisis-as-scientists-warn-there-are-only-100-harvests-left-in-our-farm-soil-9806353.html

SB_UK
05-01-15, 06:39 AM
However stress drives over-consumption and so stress-less might normalize appetite.

But in a species which courtesy of mind has completely transcended the material world (reward system) - it seems only right that the species would lose it's anchor (which is only food) to the material world.

We only need food to survive.

-*-

Why does melanin persist in the skin of animals ?

Chlorophyll has a nutritive role for plants - surely melanin isn't just about something dull like UV protection ... ...

There's no way that evolution would pass up a chance at transferring animals, like plants over onto feeding from the sun - it'd be far and away - the only biological mechanism which would select.

All paths lead to transcending the need for food to live

- but how do we do it ?

We need an experiment which involves all participants moving to a lovely sunny place for an all expenses paid lifetime.

Not that you'd need anything though if your food's laid on by your skin.

-*-

Will it happen ?

Would make changing the world a whole lot easier - as nobody 'd need anything off smelly rich landowner type people.

SB_UK
05-11-15, 07:43 AM
Problems solved.

1. So generally considered that sun exposure leads to cancer - I think that this only occurs in the presence of people eating a standard Western (growth) diet of carbs/protein ie + insulin (anabolic) - so the connection between sun exposure and cancer can be overcome if we're not eating partic. those anabolic foods.

2. ADDers find it really hard to depart daydream - need to be an ADDer to understand this - it's VERY hard to drop daydream - and feels distressful to shift mind states - noting that thought is possible in daydream - just not thought which we're not interested in - ie the hyperfocus connection might be thought which permits us to hold theta ?

3. Sun exposure - the downside - many places just don't have the sun - however the neuromelanin story can generate chemical energy from gamma rays (sun + moon).

4. Man, cat and dog have neuromelanin - travelling with us ?

5. Melanin - has the capacity of connecting (transferring) electrical energy into chemical energy

6. Increased sensory electrical flow (ADDer sensitivity) - is increased electrical flow required to do something ie if we've a hoover that uses more current - doesn't it have to suck harder - the equivalent of sucking harder being increased information through the senses <- this is the ADDer increased sensitivity.

-*-

Hundreds of observations which suggest that we're due to transcend the need for food to survive.

Little Missy
05-11-15, 07:48 AM
Hence, nirvana.

SB_UK
05-11-15, 08:19 AM
Icarus In Flames

In a review on the topic published in 2008 in the Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine, titled "Melanin directly converts light for vertebrate metabolic use: heuristic thoughts on birds, Icarus and dark human skin,"

SB_UK
05-11-15, 08:30 AM
Hence, nirvana.

Cobain claimed that he was "determined to get a habit" as a way to self-medicate his stomach condition.



Exactly.

We're just not very good with intestines, food etc
- nobody knows what the healthy diet it.

About all that's clear is staying well away from food is healthy.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-intermittent-fasting-might-help-you-live-longer-healthier-life/

but but but

- at least currently intermittent isn't always and forever.

Animal inability to utilize light energy directly has been traditionally assumed. Melanin and the pecten may have unexpected lessons also for human physiology and medicine.

SB_UK
05-11-15, 08:42 AM
Fear ?
or ??
Aversion ?

Consumerism drives me to an aversive response - it tastes bad - leaves a bitter after-taste.

We're on the verge of completely transcending consumerism ... ...

Which 'd mean transcending aversion (fear) ?

Back around we come.

... nirvana refers to the ... mind after the fires of ... aversion ... have been finally extinguished.
wikiP/nirvana

-*-

I can't not get - no matter which line of evidence I take -
I literally cannot not get to the conclusion that we're about to transcend the need for food to eat.

It neatly ties all loose threads.

SB_UK
05-11-15, 10:12 AM
It neatly ties all loose threads.


When ?

the weakening observed by Swarm could be a sign of a polarity reversal on the way
http://news.discovery.com/earth/satellite-swarm-spots-north-pole-drift-140622.htm

SB_UK
05-11-15, 10:50 AM
When ?

Co-incidence between moving magnetic north and geographic north poles ?
To occur imminently

https://sureshemre.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/north_magnetic_pole_move.jpg

Abi
05-11-15, 12:08 PM
SB you and I have melanin but what about all these whiteys? :lol:


Seriously tho this melanin theory is too bizarre. Melanin is not chlorophyll.

mildadhd
05-12-15, 12:08 AM
5. Melanin - has the capacity of connecting (transferring) electrical energy into chemical energy



melanin

The neurons of the dopaminergic pathways have axons that run the entire length of the pathway.

The neurons' somata produce the enzymes that synthesize dopamine, and they are then transmitted via the projecting axons to their synaptic destinations, where most of the dopamine is produced.

Dopaminergic nerve cell bodies in such areas as the substantia nigra tend to be pigmented due to the presence of the black pigment melanin.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopaminergic_pathways


P?

SB_UK
05-12-15, 05:08 AM
Humans have the largest amount of NM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin#Neuromelanin

we suggest that a class of biological macromolecules called the melanins may be suitable replacements for the ruthenium complexes. They have strong, broad band absorption, are chemically and photochemically very stable, can be cheaply and easily synthesized, and are also bio-available and bio-compatible. We demonstrate a melanin-based regenerative solar cell

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/Solar_Life_Cycle.svg/2000px-Solar_Life_Cycle.svg.png
<- ENVIRONMENTAL SELECTION
(the sun is increasing its output) - we need to evolve to handle this increased energy.
Rather than fear the increased output - evolution via melanin should be able to use it to our advantage.

Why the close relationship between dopamine and melanin ?
It suggests that 'reward' is being intertwined with energy transduction.
We need energy from somewhere.

The future of the planet is closely tied to that of the Sun.

Human beings only need food + shelter - both of which can be generated from the products of acetate generated by melanin from EM radiation into butyrate via the mitochondria and gut biome.

Basis to addiction - the need to eat ?
We don't eliminate the underlying basis to addiction until we no longer NEED to eat ?


We are all parasitic off the sun. Humans are just particularly greedy in that department (We use about forty percent of the bio-available sunlight for our own purposes).

What is neuromelanin doing ?

Why do we have plenty ?

Neuromelanin concentration increases with age
Relationship between wisdom and neuromelanin ?

Compared to darker skinned people, White People have lower amounts of neuromelanin.

Why do sunnier parts of countries eg Italy, France generally work less hard than their industrial, colder north ?
A laid back more social life in the south, a more industrious ofter war mongering basis to colder climes ?
Northerners like to characterise sunny Southerners as lazy ... ... but the quality of life in the sun is potentially much higher - as evidenced by the one way traffic of older people for the sun - and absolutely NOBODY ever wanting to retire from France, Spain in Scotland.
Brrrr!! the thought of living in the cold is repulsive.

-*-

What is an amazingly enigmatic pigment doing in the centre of the head ?

SB_UK
05-12-15, 05:20 AM
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0104619
Our results demonstrate the excessive levels of dopamine products in the SNc of living patients with schizophrenia and this supports the dopamine hypothesis for schizophrenia. Recently, Howers et al [17] reported the same results using a post-mortem study, which revealed that tyrosine hydroxylase staining scores were significantly greater in the schizophrenia group at substantia nigra compared to in healthy controls and in vivo imaging using PET which showed that elevated dopamine synthesis was seen in the nigral dorpamine neurons in schizophrenia.

So going back to

autism [locked in one's own head,out of others' heads] -> schizophrenia [locked out of one's own head,in others' heads]

NM levels connect to 'social' nature ?

Related to wisdom if wisdom is defined as morality - morality would represent enforced social nature.

SB_UK
05-12-15, 05:23 AM
SB you and I have melanin but what about all these whiteys? :lol:


Seriously tho this melanin theory is too bizarre. Melanin is not chlorophyll.

Melanin, I think - is much more remarkable than chloropyll in terms of the spectrum of energies which it can handle.

eg
http://www.sankofa.ch/texts/Melanin.htm
It always stay charged when it is exposed to things such as light, sound, color, and sun light.

SB_UK
05-12-15, 05:29 AM
I'm finding that if I don't eat eg during the day - then I don't get exercise-induced asthma.

Definitely now - even small amounts of even EVOO between 8am and 5pm will result in an asthma attack on a cycle ride home.

Parasympathetic nervous system inhibition - asthma therapy

And PNS is activated on rest/digest - so makes sense eating would increase PNS flow.

Also - known that fasting increases SNS flow - which is a therapy of asthma also.

But not eating {period} is difficult !!!

In addition - many ADDers report tiredness - not eating corrects the tiredness - PNS outflow - rest/digest.

SB_UK
05-12-15, 05:59 AM
The answer I want is:

[1] Increasing environmental solar output
- scientifically verified

[2] Alongside imminent magnetic pole shift
- scientifically plausible

[3] Alters human beings into an enforcedly social (moral) species eg bees, ants - where you're just not allowed to pull out a gun and randomly shoot other members of your species

[4] Representing an evolutionary speciation event
- scientifically plausible about all we're sure of - is that evolutionary jumps do occur

[5] In which human beings make the shift from needing food to survive into deriving reward from social behaviours (behaviours which're aligned with survival of the species - even if they're neutral as opposed to positive)

[6] Representing a basic shift (enlightenment, renaissance, post-modernism) from material world attachment (eating, money, consumerism) to 'higher' pursuits - but not as we do them now - of people wanting to be seen to be doing the 'higher' thing - actually driven by personal reward through achieving excellence in attaining personal and species-wide improvements in quality.

-*-

What've we got in the world outside ?

[1] A failure in economics (global deflationary spiral has been initiated)
[2] The majority are partitioned into starving or obese (human beings really can't get their heads around what they're supposed to be eating)
[3] People cannot afford housing or 'healthy' food
[4] Corporate / governmental bullying of people
[5] Individuals turned against one another in a 'competitive' paradigm ie you're up against your fellow man in a battle for promotion
[6] All standard agricultural practices are taking us towards desertification
[7] Incredible levels of preventable disease (diseases of Western living and diseases of poverty)
[8] Supposed global warming (see magnetic pole shift idea)
[9] Low quality species particularly in the last few years - quality of movies, music, art has dramatically diminished - it's almost as if people are waiting for something to happen.
[10] Rise of the rampant vacuous consumerist that wants the most expensive (no capacity for iscerning true quality and so use money as a proxy) in everything.

The trick is attaining personal quality - using money as a proxy diminishes capacity to identify quality for oneself.

-*-

The entire story here appears to be in line with an imminent evolutionary emergent event rescuing a species through enforced loss of material world attachment which occurs as a consequence of human beings discarding the need for food to survive ie that the neurochemical processes which keep addiction in place as shut down when (the need for) reward from eating is transcended.

-*-

Previous suggestions - the species simply becomes enforcedly moral but still needs to eat ?
Don't like this suggestion - who wants to spend their life compelled to grow veggies ?
Sounds dull.
Yes - to do a little of that - but not to have one's own life dependent on harvests.

Life (as good as it gets) moving under the sun for hours on end with Echo, The Bunnymen and a fluffy dog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmYB8VejrC8

SB_UK
05-12-15, 06:14 AM
And what is ADHD ?

ADDers are products of an ongoing speciation event based around standard principles of evolutionary selection for moreso than survival but 'better'.

Homo sapiens sapiens -> Homo neosapiens sapienses

SB_UK
05-12-15, 06:42 AM
Life (as good as it gets) moving under the sun for hours on end with Echo, The Bunnymen and a fluffy dog.


Now let's look at what people seem to want.

Some sort of medical scanner which checks if people are ok and fixes them, some sort of medical intervention which delays ageing, some sort of medical intervention which makes people fit, some sort of medical intervention which allows people to learn something extremely quickly ... ...

we appear to want to take a magic pill for every ailment/challenge instead of working towards them.

In the absence of needing food - we'll eradicate ailments - giving us freedom to work towards challenges ? ie can spend our lives working towards whatever we consider fit - as opposed to having to spend our lives doing somehting invariably pointless for money.

What about travelling the stars looking for aliens ?
Don't really want to.

Having a really fast car ?
We'll have virtual reality up and running very soon.

Going to any country in the world ?
Not sure why people want to go to a few places on the planet - when virtual reality can take people to those places without the tedium of travelling.

Having lovely clothes, jewellery ?
DULL !!!!

-*-

Can't find any better solution to all of our problems other than evolutionary selection for a mechanism involving melanin which eliminates our need for eating.

SB_UK
05-12-15, 07:27 AM
But if this is such an obvious idea - then why isn't it constantly being brought up ?

Do alcoholics ever spontaneously campaign (or even imagine/dream of) for a world without alcohol ?

Idea Just doesn't come up if you've the addiction to eating/consumerism/money/power ... ... who wants a world (if addicted) without KFC/Nike/money and promotions ?

Imagining a world without any form of animal abuse, barefoot runnng, doing for personal reward not financial reward and teaching to be bettered as opposed to maintaining one's position of power over others
- just wouldn't ever come up - if you're addicted to the opposite.

SB_UK
05-12-15, 07:46 AM
Now attack idea

We're fine with austerity, globalization, trickle down effect and feeding the world ?
Can't continue that line of argument it's silly.

You can see it in all kids - they'd rather have fun than eat.

Eating just isn't what it was - that is - the absolute centre of an animal's motivation.

-*-

what is food as energy ?
Simply the provision of a product which can be burnt just as we burn logs on a fire to give energy.

So - all food is - is the acetate molecule which we have a biological furnace for.

What is ageing ?
Havoc via reactive oxygen species produced in the oxidation reaction.
More food in - speedier rate of ageing ?
If we can minimise and regulate our own acetate formation - we should be able to reduce oxidative damage.
Reduce rate of physical damage through ageing.

Previous comments - acetate constructs used as epigenetic switches -

The mechanisms of action of butyrate are multiple, but many of these are related to its regulatory effects on gene expression. Butyrate is part of a well known class of epigenetic substances known as histone deacetylase inhibitors (HDACi).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312834/

HDACi
HDIs have a long history of use in psychiatry and neurology as mood stabilizers and anti-epileptics. More recently they are being investigated as possible treatments for cancers,[1][2] parasitic[3] and inflammatory diseases.[4]

All Western disorders wiped out by shifting to melanin biosynth. of acetate.

-*-

Also - butyrate/HDACi akin to growth suppressive - almost as though the genome is in growth phase until we attain butyrate generating capacity - whereby we transcend the genome (material world) and shift to a neural model of reality.

Genome model of reality eg animals - quantity of food [reward mechanism anchored to food intake]
Neural model of reality - quality of experience [reward mechanism anchored to the development of internal machinery which correlates with quality discernment]

SB_UK
05-12-15, 08:40 AM
And it was after a long search in the literature, and after some experimentation; we identified certain regularity in the interaction of melanin with the blood vessels, that is: the greater the amount of melanin equals fewer vessels and vice versa.
http://medcraveonline.com/MOJCSR/MOJCSR-01-00011.php#

^
|

Becomes even more remarkable - oxygen generation from melanin.

SCFA (Acetate,butyrate) from melanin.

melanin elaborated SCFA + melanin elaborated oxygen (hydrolysis) -> (mitochondrial) food + shelter via uncoupling reaction + oxidative phosphorylation ie our only 2 requirements + WATER

melanin elaborated SCFA + melanin elaborated oxygen (hydrolysis FROM WATER) -> (mitochondrial) food + shelter via uncoupling reaction + oxidative phosphorylation ie our only 2 requirements + WATER


So - other than water (which is produced in oxidative phosphorylation anyway) and all other metabolites - produced from the gut biome via SCFAs - we're autonomous.

melanin elaborated SCFA + melanin elaborated oxygen (hydrolysis FROM WATER) + gut biome -> (mitochondrial) food + shelter via uncoupling reaction + oxidative phosphorylation ie our only 2 requirements + WATER -> survival without the need for anything particularly ???

SB_UK
05-12-15, 08:52 AM
SB you and I have melanin but what about all these whiteys? :lol:


Seriously tho this melanin theory is too bizarre. Melanin is not chlorophyll.

MELANIN IS TO THE ANIMAL KINGDOM LIKE CHLOROPHYLL IS TO THE VEGETABLE KINGDOM.

http://medcraveonline.com/MOJCSR/MOJCSR-01-00011.php

SB_UK
05-12-15, 10:32 AM
http://www.molecularbrain.com/content/4/1/43

Mitochondria near Melanin getting a workout.

Why ?

Pigmented dopaminergic neurons of the SNc show the highest ΔmtDNA levels

mt DNA problems must relate to rate of mitochondrial functioning.

Is melanin forcing increased mitochondrial functioning ?
Or attempting to protect mitochondria against increased mitochondrial functioning ?

A bit of both - but forcing increased mt functioning is the greater focus I think.

SB_UK
05-12-15, 11:12 AM
We observed an increase in the number of VEGF-expressing neurons and an increase of the number of blood vessels and their volume occupying the substantia nigra pars compacta of monkeys rendered parkinsonian by chronic MPTP intoxication.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15666038

Parkinson's disease - decreased NM in substantia nigra
Neuromelanin-containing neurons in the substantia nigra undergo neurodegeneration during Parkinson's Disease.

Parkinson's disease - increased vascularization
paper above

Apparent (paper above) - inverse relationship between melanin deposition and vascularization
we identified certain regularity in the interaction of melanin with the blood vessels, that is: the greater the amount of melanin equals fewer vessels and vice versa.

If there are no blood vessels then there's no {fuel, food, energy, something to oxidize, power} being supplied to a local area to make things happen.

So where's the energy coming from ?

Neuro / melanin itself ?

SB_UK
05-12-15, 11:34 AM
So - summarising all of the above -

THREAD CONCLUSION
ALL HUMAN PROBLEMS SOLVED BY TURNING 'SOLAR' POWERED (BUTYRATE) AFTER DISCARDING FOSSIL FUEL (eg FAT) - SCHEDULE AND MECHANISM OF TRANSITION DEFINED

- a very familiar story with a peculiar bent.

Unmanagable
05-12-15, 11:46 AM
I'm endlessly fascinated by all the places your brain goes, SB, and I thank you for sharing. I used to wonder how in the world you survived your food experiments that you documented way back, but now that 'm on a food intake adventure of my own, I feel I "get it" a little more each day.

Abi
05-12-15, 02:05 PM
Moderator Note

I merged these threads as they are on the same topic

SB_UK
05-13-15, 06:18 AM
I'm endlessly fascinated by all the places your brain goes, SB, and I thank you for sharing. I used to wonder how in the world you survived your food experiments that you documented way back, but now that 'm on a food intake adventure of my own, I feel I "get it" a little more each day.

From animal based Atkins to vegan ketosis - through raw vegan to vegetarian - from gluten/casein free to starch and sugar free

from forced drinking red wine to only MUFA - from prebiotic/probiotic only to lectin free ... ...

Did I mention EVOO only !!

aaarghhhhh what a nightmare !!
There's no way that I'm gonna' hit the right answer.

Closest I've gotten - is elimination of exercise induced asthma by not eating.

And this thread (bit above) includes (for the first time) - a melanin-based approach to generating food (fat) AND oxygen (from water)
- with water being generated through standard mitochondrial respiration.

I'm afraid I'm gonna' have to go a little woo woo sci-fi on us now by suggesting that we appear to be generating a melanin-based mechanism of supplying ourselves with everything we need ie through feeding the mitochondria - of ATP (energy) and uncopling (heat) generation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTHjFeXmnHs

You see 'Air - all I need' - we won't even need. And I am suggesting that a 'moon safari' may be possible.
Safaris are usually held in hot places aren't they ?
But I'm not too sure why anybody'd bother, at least just yet.

Perhaps as the sun heats up and we need to find someplace cooler ?

The exact same chemical which feeds mitochondria can feed our gut biome also - meaning that (this is really ELEGANT) - we appear to have all that we need to go kinda' autonomous - though there will be some requirement for some form of energy which melanin can transduce in all we need -

but but but melanin appears to be able to turn its hand to all manner of 'energies'.

Tempted to suggest that we are on the edge of losing our Earth-boundedness - but still not convinced that the mind is not fixed to the Schumann resonance and so we're Earth-bound.

http://assets1.bigthink.com/system/idea_thumbnails/21570/primary/stephen_hawking.jpg?1281033504
http://bigthink.com/dangerous-ideas/5-stephen-hawkings-warning-abandon-earth-or-face-extinction

Could be made to entertain the idea that we're about to lose our need for the planet (but don't really want to go there) - as I don't really want to go elsewhere.

-*-

Apologies for the sci-fi nature of this post - it shouldn't appear so though - I mean all the mechanisms are out there - and it really doesn't make sense that human beings with the wonderful (potentially) things of mind and art - should still be struggling to find food to survive ... ... it just seems as though it should be below us.

Food is just an oxidizable substrate and we can make it - and about time too.

-*-

What do I object to in all of the above ?

Well - I think the general message from certain famous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aOGnVKWbwc

:-) songs is that 'we've got to get ourselves back to the garden' -

but what does that mean ?

I'd say it just means that we're happy mooching about ie are not hellbent intent on looking for happiness in the darkest reaches of the Universe

- there will be no happiness to find outside of oneself.

So - your point is ?
That I'm not too sure why we'd ever acquire anything more than the capacity to generate our own energy (solar powered) alongside no underlying thrust to accomplish anything.

Explain ?
The urge to accomplish something for necessary reward is the problem - much prefer the idea of reward as something which we're constantly in life above the baseline of - but which increases yet further (transiently) above the baseline when we contribute something of worth.

So - the urge to accomplish changes from necessary to avoid pain (eg cold turkey motivates drug addicts to find addictive substance) to happy people eager to extend their happiness - but without any absolute need.

It's the need (for reward) to succeed through the pain, hunger of failure which I don't like.
Generating something wonderful for people to enjoy should bring happiness - it's just that the model of happiness shouldn't result in darkness if one fails.

So - simply put - happy/sad turns into shades of bliss ?

-*-

Just to re-iterate - that melanin is some heavy dude - it's not actually surprising from a chemical perspective (it's about as woo woo as a solar panel which're everywhere these days) - but from a human perspective - potentially separating away from the need for food and oxygen seems kinda' sci-fi.

SB_UK
05-13-15, 06:48 AM
question
So if all people were in a state of shades of bliss ? what'd people do all day ?
answer
That's the sort of question that people who aren't in a shade of bliss ask.

If you're in a shade of bliss - becoming ever more blissful the more one contributes to the bliss of others - then you'd do something worthwhile as assessed by the level of bliss one's mind projects will arise through engagement.

What kinda' things would increase the bliss ?
Incredible gardens, incredible vegetables to sample (not eat to survive), incredible internet speeds, incredible virtual reality, incredible teamwork, incredible personal fitness (the yoga poise), incredible quality of reproduction of music to listen to, incredible beauty ... ...

It's all good.

Imagination can extend reality - and with the energy we have available to us via an ever more productive sun - we can do pretty much whatever we desire - if we work together.

-*-

Note

You see 'Air - all I need' - we won't even need.

If we were going to suggest something material which we need - I guess (ideas above considered) - it might be water - as a pre-requisite from which all else follows.

SB_UK
05-13-15, 06:55 AM
Life currently is dull.

But we've the twin contributions of imagination and emergence which extend dreary reality.

What is dreary about reality currently ?
Wage slavery (all people - variations on a theme)

What is freedom ?
Not needing money.

What is love of money ?
Root of (all kinds of) evil.

Not needing money, no longer displaying th elove of money ?
Should mean 'correction' in a flaw in human beings which human beings appear to exhibit (as described by religion).

So - is the flaw corrected ?
... ... ... yes ?

What is money needed for ?
Food/shelter

Evolutionarily transcended ?
Yes.

-*-

I think human beings are waiting for something (which is about) to happen.

SB_UK
05-14-15, 09:12 AM
Note - not only asthma - but massively ramped up pain in hands (and feet) - mostly hands at the moment on eating.
Rather than working out which foods make the pain worse - will just avoid food during the day.

Abi
05-14-15, 10:04 AM
Oculus Rift.

Little Missy
05-14-15, 10:08 AM
Oculus Rift.

For sure. And then a really good meal.:)

SB_UK
05-15-15, 07:02 AM
Oculus Rift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htodb4aKGi8

SB_UK
05-15-15, 07:17 AM
So let's say we shift towards any real need for food to survive.

[1] Would we be able to move past the world of bowel movements - it would be wonderful if we didn't have number twosies everywhere.

[2] Would that polar shift result in the northern hemisphere (UK partic.) being warmer ?

But if we're happy doing whatever - couldn't that also work to destroy society ie if nobody really needs anybody - we could end up with all people simply happy doing their own thing ?
I think (personal experience) - that there's some 'magnetic' or 'empathic'or 'telepathic' or 'communicated reward' mechanism which is going to come into play.
What do I mean ?
I've noticed a kinda' magnetic induction around women and a form of transmitted reward in communication around men.

There's something interesting there because it'd mean a natural reward based phenomenon maintaining group integrity.

-*-

The big problem which human beings have is:
[1] No morality
[2] No reward from morality.

The human mind should be (And will soon be) incompatible with immorality.

But then what ?
A species with enforced moral consistency.
But what's the best way of enforcing moral consistency ?

Wire reward into moral behaviour.

How ?
Generate a mechanism of social reward.

How ?
If we program men to receive reward in presence of women, and men to receive reward when communicating with men (and same for woman)
- then that might be a way.
Note - contrast to our current paradigm where male obtains reward from female abuse (animal alpha male) and where male obtains reward from beating (out-competing) another male.

So - we've a higher and a lower reward system.

Compatible with the reward system for precursor ADDers and ADDers.

PRIMITIVE MECHANISM <- adder precursor
male obtains reward from female abuse (animal alpha male) <- involves the physical definition of love
male obtains reward from beating (out-competing) another male <- competition

HIGHER MECHANISM <- adder
male obtains reward from being in the presence of female <- involves the higher (non physical) definition of love
'weak in the presence of beauty'
male obtains reward from moral interaction with male <- collaboration

So collaboration = moral communication needs to be wired into reward ?

Want to somehow link that idea to electro -> male-male and magnetic -> male-female induction of reward.

SB_UK
05-28-15, 02:04 PM
Every path I take.

Complete eradication of human suffering if we no longer need to eat to survive.

KarmanMonkey
05-29-15, 11:22 AM
I don't think eliminating the need for food would eliminate a lot of social problems; just change a lot of them.

We often use food to self-medicate for a lot of different conditions, so we'd likely become more dependant on pharmaceutical interventions.

I'd assume the change would happen gradually, but we'd be putting a massive number of people out of work. Every farmer, half (?) the trucking industry, markets, restaurants... There are a vast number of third world countries whose chief industry are crop exports...

Don't have much of a basis for the argument, but I feel we'd end up in a water crisis.

Personally I'd miss food. Chocolate in particular. I think western culture would have to change drastically, because currently everything we do is tied to food.

Bring home the bacon!
We're happy? Eat to celebrate!
We're sad? Eat to feel better!
Something good happens? Eat to mark the occasion!
Something bad happens? Provide food to comfort.
Kid did well on a test? Go out for ice cream!
Kid didn't do their chores? No dessert for you!

I feel it's a bit of a moot point though, since my personal feeling is that our society is set up to cause us to devolve, not evolve. People we deem "successful" have on average far fewer children than those with less education or economic success. The most wildly successful people often don't even have enough children to replace their numbers. Meanwhile, it's often the families with the least education and financial status that end up having 5+ children. So with each generation we effectively weed out more and more of the intelligent and successful.

Instead it would seem that we're not relying on biological evolution, but rather on technological. We're designing devices that attempt to adapt to our shortcomings and play to our strengths, and the technology, for better or worse, is creating social change on a scale not seen since the printing press.

As far as the change I'd like to see, I'd be happiest if we saw us "evolve" toward more effective and deeper communication. A lot of our social problems would improve if we better understood one another.

The other change I'd like to see is that we develop technology or biology that allows the basic needs of every human being to be met without the need to work. A second renissance (without the peasants) if you will. The ability to pursue art, philosophy, science or social support without having the uncertainties of the future. The ability to choose our course in life purely based on our desires and values, not necessity.

SB_UK
05-29-15, 01:18 PM
The other change I'd like to see is that we develop technology or biology that allows the basic needs of every human being to be met without the need to work. A second renissance (without the peasants) if you will. The ability to pursue art, philosophy, science or social support without having the uncertainties of the future. The ability to choose our course in life purely based on our desires and values, not necessity.

Not needing food to survive would permit exactly ^^^ that.

Just read your paragraph again - EXACTLY that

- worse still - your vision can only be arrived at through human beings losing the need for food to eat.

Deep understanding - runs into a problem - as soon as it exists - we gain the eyes to see that there's nothing complicated out in the world around us - and that what we were seeking was to overcome misunderstanding not to gain understanding.

To repeat - it's not to misinterprete each other as opposed to be able to interprete each other which is the aim.

No longer misinterprete - and we see that there's nothing that we actually want to say to one another.

Just tootle along, be happy, enjoy beauty, cuddle your dog in the sun - run barefoot over hills.

All possible as soon as human beings discard the need to eat to survive.

<- magic bullet towards alleviating human suffering.

Human misery began on 'eating' the apple in 1 tradition.
Human misery began on material world attachment (consumerism) in the other traditon.

Off the scale significant - all evidence points to an imminent emergent event in which human beings will lose the need to eat to survive

(eating will still be possible but for reasons of quality sensing) ... ...

SB_UK
05-29-15, 01:39 PM
quote=KarmanMonkey;1734188
I don't think eliminating the need for food would eliminate a lot of social problems; just change a lot of them.
[Current society is based around has and has nots - has could no longer abuse has nots as has nots no longer NEED anything has set have - complete global social change would occur]
We often use food to self-medicate for a lot of different conditions, so we'd likely become more dependant on pharmaceutical interventions.
[no longer self-medicate, no longer medicate - root of human suffering in material world attachment - reward from eating transcended - no more need for chemical intervention]
I'd assume the change would happen gradually, but we'd be putting a massive number of people out of work. Every farmer, half (?) the trucking industry, markets, restaurants... There are a vast number of third world countries whose chief industry are crop exports...
[emergence occurs in the timing of a crystallization event ie very rapidly - time taken to saturate a solution which refers, in this case, to number of people 'knowing' morality ie when enough people are moral - immoral models of reality cannot co-exist forcing an evolutionary event ... ... ]
[No further need for farming, trucking, working, money... ...]
Don't have much of a basis for the argument, but I feel we'd end up in a water crisis.
[Solar powered desalination can solve all of our problems]
Personally I'd miss food. Chocolate in particular. I think western culture would have to change drastically, because currently everything we do is tied to food.
[Comfort food is only required when in discomfort - discomfort alleviated through the species overcoming material world attachment/need for food to survive]
Bring home the bacon!
We're happy? Eat to celebrate!
We're sad? Eat to feel better!
Something good happens? Eat to mark the occasion!
Something bad happens? Provide food to comfort.
Kid did well on a test? Go out for ice cream!
Kid didn't do their chores? No dessert for you!
[People'd only miss food as alcohol addicts miss alcohol ... remove the alcoholics addiction and alcohol 'd matter little to them - current research suggests there's no safe alcohol limit - it's all bad ... ...]
I feel it's a bit of a moot point though, since my personal feeling is that our society is set up to cause us to devolve, not evolve. People we deem "successful" have on average far fewer children than those with less education or economic success. The most wildly successful people often don't even have enough children to replace their numbers. Meanwhile, it's often the families with the least education and financial status that end up having 5+ children. So with each generation we effectively weed out more and more of the intelligent and successful.
[Current society has a measure of success which relates to psychopathy - true success would see the species as a whole and not the individual gain - especially when the individual gains, in this society, as our measure of success - at the expense of society at large.
Education associates with decreasing family sizes, improving education to incorporate morality would extend this pattern - and in the background we also have the idea of a demographic pattern ie global human population pattern - with the current rate of global human population increase decreasing since the 50's ... ...]
Instead it would seem that we're not relying on biological evolution, but rather on technological. We're designing devices that attempt to adapt to our shortcomings and play to our strengths, and the technology, for better or worse, is creating social change on a scale not seen since the printing press.
[Technological innovations supporting human organismic evolution - we're mind/body/spirity - human evolution has only those to play with ... ... note that the dominant story out there in techno workd is the fossil fuel to solar power transition ... ... which I think is the story I'm describing going on 'in here' ... ... is it sun light or heat ? Don't know - sun light is the obvious one but but but powering off heat is more elegant]
As far as the change I'd like to see, I'd be happiest if we saw us "evolve" toward more effective and deeper communication. A lot of our social problems would improve if we better understood one another.
[see post above on deeper communication]
The other change I'd like to see is that we develop technology or biology that allows the basic needs of every human being to be met without the need to work. A second renissance (without the peasants) if you will. The ability to pursue art, philosophy, science or social support without having the uncertainties of the future. The ability to choose our course in life purely based on our desires and values, not necessity.
[see post above on deeper communication]

Fuzzy12
05-29-15, 01:54 PM
Personally, I'd be happy to not be dependent on food anymore but considering how all organisms need some form of fuel intake, I doubt that's the next evolutionary jump. I think, before that happens (if it ever happens and I don't see why it would as the evolutionary trend doesn't seem to point that way in any way), it's more likely that humans will discover a more efficient way of refuelling,...maybe by getting all their nutritional needs met by a pill or an injection...

Apologies if you explained why the next evolutionary jump would be to transcend the need for food (and I don't mean why it would be good to not need food but why evolution would go that way). I haven't read every post in this thread.

Hm, also considering that romantic meals are often used to get people into the mood, I'm not sure that human mutants who don't need food will be the most likely to abundantly procreate... ;)

SB_UK
05-31-15, 11:32 AM
Yes - losing the desire for food [material world attachment] could carry a very different relationship to procreation.

Food intake - Genomic evolution - Material world evolution

Procreation was a method - in the material world - to pursue genomic evolution.

What does procreation become in the post-material world ?

Why would people have children ?

I think we have to rely on:

male -> female [pair-bond] oxytocin mediated
female -> child [pair-bond] oxytocin mediated

Procreation can't be discarded unless people become immortal - which I'm not suggesting.

I think we need to rely on that biological urge mixed with the rational understanding of the need for pair-bond formation ? for couples to at least have 1 child ... ... even though - that will still mean that the human population could drive itself into extinction before too long.

Yes - connection between food and arousal - presumably imprined from way back when our prokaryotic precursors would increase rate of division on presence of food.

Discarded.

Personally - I'm much more driven to pair-bond to doggies than am to children ... ... but I strongly suspect that that's because dogs can't use language.
It may have seemed like a good idea at the time- but language is irritating - people that use language unskilfully are irritating

- however I strongly suspect that people who can language properly ... ... are silent ... ...

- far better off in complete silence [away from human words].

KarmanMonkey
06-02-15, 04:06 PM
Not needing food to survive would permit exactly ^^^ that.

Just read your paragraph again - EXACTLY that

- worse still - your vision can only be arrived at through human beings losing the need for food to eat.

Deep understanding - runs into a problem - as soon as it exists - we gain the eyes to see that there's nothing complicated out in the world around us - and that what we were seeking was to overcome misunderstanding not to gain understanding.

To repeat - it's not to misinterprete each other as opposed to be able to interprete each other which is the aim.

No longer misinterprete - and we see that there's nothing that we actually want to say to one another.

Just tootle along, be happy, enjoy beauty, cuddle your dog in the sun - run barefoot over hills.

All possible as soon as human beings discard the need to eat to survive.

<- magic bullet towards alleviating human suffering.

Human misery began on 'eating' the apple in 1 tradition.
Human misery began on material world attachment (consumerism) in the other traditon.

Off the scale significant - all evidence points to an imminent emergent event in which human beings will lose the need to eat to survive

(eating will still be possible but for reasons of quality sensing) ... ...


Not sure if eliminating the need to eat would solve those basic needs problems. We still need energy that has to come from somewhere (someone suggested we would shift to photosynthesis) and we'd still need sunlight (easy) and nutrients (not quite as easy...) Our needs would change, but we'd still have basic needs. And I suspect we'd still need shelter, and in the modern world, electricity.

As for providing food, it doesn't have to be dramatic, in the rennisance we had an entire class of people who did not need to do anything to survive; little threat of war, a peasant class to provide their meals and shelter... If we manage to advance automation to the point where we make the provision of basic needs cheap/free and requiring few or no people, all of a sudden you don't need to work to survive.

And I don't think avoiding misunderstandings would lead to stagnation (at least that's what I interpret from your post) as understanding you isn't the same thing as agreeing with you. We would still have people with different and rich histories, views; realities really.

In the end I feel we're talking about a similar concept; I'm just pointing out that doing without food would not be a simple transition for us, and would not likely be as cut and dry as you presented it to be.

SB_UK
07-14-15, 02:46 PM
How about this ?

Pineal gland -> Melatonin -> *1 ->

*1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3639738/
Recently, it has been suggested that melatonin, the pineal gland hormone, regulates the development of dopaminergic systemSo

Pineal gland -> Melatonin -> *1 -> Substantia nigra -> Neuromelanin production + gamma irradiation -> SCFA
alongside
Pineal gland -> Melatonin -> *2

*2
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15088639
Protective effects of melatonin on the ionizing radiation [gamma irradiation] induced DNA damage in the rat brain.That's lovely - because it neatly ties in activation of pineal, melatonin antioxidant production, melatonin activation of substantia nigra to express neuromelanin and neuromelanin conversion of gamma rays (sun and moon) (similar to chlorophyll and UV light) - into chemical energy.

http://12knights.pbworks.com/f/1300363678/absspec.gif

Chlorophyll operates optimally at light wavelengths of 400 - 500 which ordinarily switches off melatonin (associated with darkness).

Light not required for mycelial growth.
Once the mycelium has grown enough to break through the surface it is exposed to sunlight and initiates the next process of growth were the actual mushrooms will begin to form.

http://www.mushrooms-spores.com/mushrooms-growing-life-cycle.html
http://www.mushbox.co/assets/images/mushroom_life_cycle.jpg

Mycelium = Neuromelanin - the peculiar polymers formed

Melatonin -> drives Neuromelanin production

Wisdom -> pineal -> melatonin [ionizing radiation neuro-protective] (much like melanin and UV in the skin) -> neuromelanin [ionizing radiation converting cf radiotrophic fungae] + ionizing radiation exposure (gamma rays) -> chemical energy

-*-

What's neat about the story above ?

[1] The anti-oxidant effect of melatonin needed to be included.
[2] The pineal gland demands prime position (endocrine centre 1) in this story - placing it in control of the dopaminergic system makes it so.
[3] Pineal gland associated with 'timing' (circadian rhythms) - upon reaching wisdom - the so-called third eye opens - resulting in a pulsatile release of melatonin which kicks off the train above in which the brain's metabolic engine is activated.
[4] Love the connection between mycelium and neuromelanin polymers.
[5] The brain must feed itself - it's too important and its food supply cannot be jeopardised.
[6] Plants have a mechanism of light conversion into energy - we should have too - our very nature required a more energetic form of EM.
[7] No need to be in sunny places - Gamma rays are everywhere and at all times of the day - we're bathed in them.

Surprisingly, the Moon is a moderately bright gamma-ray source. As Thompson says, "The only part of the electromagnetic spectrum where the Moon is brighter than the Sun is gamma rays."
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/GLAST/science/solar_system.html

SB_UK
07-14-15, 02:50 PM
What's great about the above is that it gives us 2 reward systems.

Primitive - free dopamine -> substantia nigra
Associated with energy production (from chemistry (food))
<- MATERIALISM (the need for 'things' we can touch to survive)

Higher - polymerized dopamine -> neuromelanin in substantia nigra
Associated with energy production (from physics (the electromagnetic spectrum))
<- POST-MATERIALISM (no need for 'things' we can touch to survive)

-*-

That's a really neat mechanism - it all fits together.
There's no way that I could invent that scheme - it's definitely happening.

SB_UK
07-14-15, 03:02 PM
UV light -> pineal gland / substantia nigra via dopamine-> circadian (daily) rhythm
Solar irradiation -> Lunar gamma ray release -> by lunar cycle -> gamma ray cycle (high (full moon) to low) -> pineal gland / substantia nigra via dopamine -> monthly rhythm

So ... ... ... we're developed around and are evolving to use a better energetic source.

Food is pretty useless and is far below us.

Naturally - people will feel sad if we transcend the need for food.
But that's because whilst in the primitive reward system - we're defined by pleasure in food intake.

The major part of this story is wisdom/emergence of ADDers results in a shift from the primitive reward system of chemical energy for the higher reward system of energy from electromagnetic radiation.

Now - the pineal -> melatonin -> anandamide -> endocannabinoid effects (like cannabis) placing us in a very pleasant daydream state.

So - we're not (at all) left feeling despair at the loss of food - but are switched from the duality of hunger/greed into satiety.

-*-

All makes sense.

SB_UK
07-14-15, 03:25 PM
A series of recent discoveries in Spain suggests that melatonin, the naturally occurring hormone found in animals that is the primary regulator of the sleep cycle, may prevent weight gain and other health complications.http://dailynexus.com/2011-05-24/sleep-thin-melatonins-effect-metabolism/

“Melatonin is an important regulator of brown adipose tissue in mammals, which burns calories by ramping up the body’s metabolism,” Fridlund said.melatonin -> brown adipose tissue -> heat via mitochondrial uncoupling reaction
melatonin -> neuromelanin -> SCFA -> energy via mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation

^
|

food + shelter -- our only two 'physical' world requirements.

http://www.colorcutandcreate.com/images/icon_hulk.png
^
|
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ragged-Trousered_Philanthropists


The key - acquiring morality
The book advocates a society in which work is performed to satisfy the needs of all rather than to generate profit for a few.

The path to the higher reward system of gamma ray induced ragged trousered wisdom - through acquiring morality.

SB_UK
07-15-15, 03:52 AM
The cause of death of dopaminergic neurons in the pars compacta is unknown. However, some contributions to the unique susceptibility of dopaminergic neurons in the pars compacta have been identified. For one, dopaminergic neurons show abnormalities in mitochondrial complex 1, causing aggregation of alpha-synuclein; this can result in abnormal protein handling and neuron death.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20374433
Ketones prevent synaptic dysfunction induced by mitochondrial respiratory complex inhibitors.-*-

BDNF promotes differentiation and maturation of adult-born neurons through GABAergic transmission.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1940242/
Although animal studies have failed to demonstrate affects of the ketogenic diet on brain GABA levels in the absence of amino acid loading, a recent study on cerebro-spinal fluid amino acid levels before and during the ketogenic diet found evidence of increased cerebrospinal fluid GABA.-*-

It has been known since the time of Hippocrates that fasting is an effective treatment for seizures, and the ketogenic diet was designed to mimic the fasting state

-*-

Fasting state - not to eat.
How do we stop eating unless we no longer need the energy from burning calories.

To no longer need the energy from burning calories.

-*-

Back 11 years on site.

Fundamental problem with biomedicine.

Assumption that our problems (diseases of Western living) are rooted in the past - in actual fact - diseases are a result of evolutionary change for the better - through failure to 'keep up'.



http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=88461&postcount=19
Quote:
Is it possible that we should be searching for the reason for ADD [INSERT ALL WESTERN DISORDERS HERE], not in the future but in the past?
Nope, but it’s an annoyingly popular idea. Don’t get us started. (grin…)

SB_UK
07-15-15, 04:01 AM
Summarising

All lines of evidence (disorders of Western living) appear to signpost emergence of a novel metabolic type, consistent with evolution's mantra of delivering species with increased (happy survival) fitness - which in this (our) specific case represents the novel capacity to transduce energy from radiation and not just food.
Neuromelanin production in cats, dogs* - so it looks like our favourite pets are coming along for the ride.

Note.

Well accepted science
Caloric restriction (ketosis) -> Increased longevity

The only new bit is the engine for SCFA production.

-*-

*
ref (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=iWblBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA466&lpg=PA466&dq=neuromelanin+cat+dog&source=bl&ots=pJMjNc4xGQ&sig=pWeEqVeDrIcdM0lwLa1ICHvcap0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAWoVChMI2oKqp9ncxgIV6JzbCh3Yew8H#v=on epage&q=neuromelanin%20cat%20dog&f=false)
NM (Yes) - cat,dog
NM (No) - guinea pig, rat, mouse

SB_UK
07-15-15, 04:25 AM
NM presence evident at 5 years of age concomitant with the mind commencing.

ref (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cuCIyLmJkHoC&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=neuromelanin+cat+dog&source=bl&ots=-PwSAk8Sjk&sig=gfgJBIBr04oTUN9Yge573bArlEU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC8Q6AEwBGoVChMIjtqv4dncxgIVKZrbCh0aYw7N#v=on epage&q=neuromelanin%20cat%20dog&f=false)
hstochemically visible at 5 yrs of ageThe mind's job isn't to know any system - it's to gain a personal understanding of morality prior to activating the brain's capacity for energy transduction from electromagnetic radiation.

Pretty much the same as the fossil fuel [chemical] -> solar power [EM radiation] transition most intelligent people are trying to force the world to transition to - as the Middle East burns, and the rest of the world contaminates its water supplies through fracking mayhem.

Oxygen, water are still required in burning ketones; fossil fuel usage/primitive reward system activation (chemical energy use) compromises our survival - we can't push past polluted oxygen and water - (emergent) evolutionary change appears magical but it's not magic.

Toxins are still toxins whether we're externally or internally fuelled.

SB_UK
07-15-15, 05:08 AM
q1
No human faeces (pet faeces ?) -> cleanliness -> elimination/prevention infectious disease outbreaks

q2
food -> PNS rest/digest -> reduction in need for sleep ?

SB_UK
07-15-15, 05:12 AM
When all of this is so obvious - why didn't this idea get picked up upon ?

Who imagines 'heaven' in losing the prime source (primitive reward system activation - food) of pleasure ?

Pleasure only exists because of Pain - life's better (bliss) (anandamide -> Sanskrit - joy,bliss) without.

The effect of subjective mind performing science - valid observations will be misinterpreted.

Abi
07-15-15, 07:14 AM
SOME part of you sees how bizarre this theory is, right?

I really don't mean to be rude, but come on S?

Little Missy
07-15-15, 08:40 AM
Nirvana, and NOT the band.

I believe SB is boiling it all down to nirvana. I hope so anyway.

It is nirvana, right?

Abi
07-15-15, 09:06 AM
Nirvana is a restricted topic outside of M&S and Debates.

Please cease and desist.

- Abi (as semi-sober mod)

Little Missy
07-15-15, 09:18 AM
Oh...I had no idea. Please forgive me. Carry on. What is M&S?:confused:

SB_UK
07-15-15, 10:09 AM
Bizarre

No - idea was bizarre 5 years ago - now it's inevitable.

All available information consistent with a shift in our power source.

We're not going to survive unless it happens.

Human beings haven't proven themselves to be very nice.

Half of the world dying from obesity whilst the other half is in poverty.

Overcoming {desire, craving} as an idea folds nicely into carbohydrate (sugar rush and drop) ... ... ... overcome one - overcome the other.

SB_UK
07-15-15, 10:14 AM
"Endless, Nameless"

Silence
Here I am
Here I am
Silent

Bright and clear
It's what I am
I have
Died

Hmmm - something endless, nameless, when synchronized with it - it confers the frame of mind of {silence, peace, emptiness}, clarity, as if you've woken up, been woken from the dead ?

How many stories repeat these themes ?

BellaVita
07-15-15, 10:17 AM
No - idea was bizarre 5 years ago - now it's inevitable.

All available information consistent with a shift in our power source.

We're not going to survive unless it happens.

Human beings haven't proven themselves to be very nice.

Half of the world dying from obesity whilst the other half is in poverty.

Overcoming {desire, craving} as an idea folds nicely into carbohydrate (sugar rush and drop) ... ... ... overcome one - overcome the other.

I didn't know the world was divided into two categories - what about the in-between-ers?

SB_UK
07-15-15, 11:52 AM
I didn't know the world was divided into two categories - what about the in-between-ers?

I guess everybody could be divided into 'have enough money for food to live' or 'have not' - but I guess I'm looking more at people who 'have more than enough money for food to live' and 'have not'
- where the money doesn't get automatically re-routed (after buying essentials) from the haves to the have nots.

-*-

Anyway - it's sadly more likely (to my mind) that we'll transcend the need for food than the greedy of this world will voluntarily give up all of their wealth to those in need.
However - transcending the need for food will result overnight in a loss in value in money - as people won't need it any more.

It's the magic bullet.

BellaVita
07-15-15, 01:47 PM
Narcissism runs through the veins of this world.

SB_UK
07-15-15, 03:59 PM
Narcissism runs through the veins of this world.
Exactly.

Since the 80's the dominant art forms have become devoid of quality.

Today's newspaper feature:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11741591/Sinead-OConnor-lambasts-Kim-Kardashian-Rolling-Stone-cover-Thank-god.html

'Music Has Officially Died' (http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6633503/sinead-oconnor-kim-kardashian-rolling-stone-cover)A model in the 80's who rejected all of that (it's when the love affair with narcissism took off) by shaving her head.

Love this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7liJyxyT1mo
I don't know no shame
I feel no pain
I can't
I don't know no shame
I feel no pain
I can't see the flame

She later sings in the song "I have refused to take part" which can be interpreted into how she refused to take part in the music industries sexist practices.
Society turning to ->- Money, Power and Sex -<- courtesy of the global economic system / consumerism / materialism.

And now we have Kardashian, Cyrus and the other one that Sinead mentions in the article - who're famous for exposing their fatty bits.

Lovely lovely - haven't hear it for years.

SB_UK
07-15-15, 04:06 PM
The reason why rich people won't give enough money to poor people is simply that for people to buy in to money - they must develop an addiction to it - and nobody who's addicted to something gives away their addicting substance.

They {need, crave, desire} it.

Charity allows people to appease their conscience.

But if their conscience had basic accounting skills - it would know that their books don't balance.

Buy a sports car, send a loaf of bread (which arrives spoilt) to the starving.

-*-

Money, economics is based on a fundamental flaw (the love/desire of money) and will never result in the collective good.

Greece is about to discover that.

Money's not a level playing field and is a game which is weighted in favour of the rich and powerful.

SB_UK
07-15-15, 04:15 PM
Anyway - the good news is that we don't have to correct man's pursuit of money.

An emergent evolutionary event is gonna' wipe out human need for - and shortly thereafter the existence of money.

Money is co-ercive and not consistent with individual freedom.

The majority of people are unwilling wage slaves doing thngs which they know are pointless and immoral for 2 weeks in the sun.

Why not a life in the sun ?

SB_UK
07-16-15, 03:58 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfMWJi4req4

Healthy dopaminergic musical chills.

Opening the doors to perception.

Peak experience

The magical effect of strings.

The problem with people.

Feeling pleasure from something that can have no precedent.

Animals don't live in a world of beauty - they live in a vicious competitive world.

We need to realise that we live in a world of beauty and not of competition.

The genome to neuronal reward system shift.

Genome - competition <- optimization of a single structure [genome] with little variation
Neurone - collaboration <- generation of diversity (in sensory art forms) defiend by variation

Of note - the reduction in diversity in artforms with society embracing money.

SB_UK
07-16-15, 04:00 AM
It's all about (materialism to beauty) survival.

Admire the 'perfection seeking' warlord ? or the 'perfection seeking' artist ?
Society has changed.

The goal is personally satisfying personal quality.
And to support other people in attaining their own personally satisfying personal quality.

And then to share.

BellaVita
07-16-15, 06:57 AM
It's all about (materialism to beauty) survival.

Admire the 'perfection seeking' warlord ? or the 'perfection seeking' artist ?
Society has changed.

The goal is personally satisfying personal quality.
And to support other people in attaining their own personally satisfying personal quality.

And then to share.

I've noticed, one of your favorite words seems to be "attaining."

:)

SB_UK
07-16-15, 07:06 AM
I've noticed, one of your favorite words seems to be "attaining."

:)

Perfect individual quality can't be attained, I think.

Development/attaining quality (personally rewarding) can.

Like the idea of the true artist that is never happy with their art.

But the flipside is that they're never happy.

To strive towards attaining personal quality (art/tech (quality), context (science) and morality (social science) as the developmental reward system (spurning the competition set of money, sex and power) until the individual is carried over into wisdom

- where striving towards perfection is no longer required

- because the individual discovers a place in which they're (and simply) happy.

-*-

Economic$, Law <- boo (The dodgy science meets the list of rules to keep you subservient to others)
vs
Arts, Tech, Science and Social Science

someothertime
07-16-15, 07:55 AM
with regard to the thread title... i believe a discussion/thread we had about 14? months ago about appleonion societal cycling pretty much underpins the next shift.

money has served it's time... external forces will draw upon the artiness of humanity.... alas amidst/post great/confonting change in the material. one of the first signs of this shift will be the dumping of technology as we know it.

of the many themes on which you've written SB.... I only have one ( objection ? ) criticism.... and that is of morality. actually..... the word contains so much inherent taint / predeterminedness..... that i believed it should be redefined.

morality is no doubt.... something within the core of an ADDer...... to a large extent it weighs us down. forming expectations based on the views and norms of others creates a cryptonite for us..... and while i have no doubt that doing good, with heart, is part of our psyche..... morality as it is commonly known, is a hindrance.

SB_UK
07-16-15, 11:43 AM
with regard to the thread title... i believe a discussion/thread we had about 14? months ago about appleonion societal cycling pretty much underpins the next shift.

money has served it's time... external forces will draw upon the artiness of humanity.... alas amidst/post great/confonting change in the material. one of the first signs of this shift will be the dumping of technology as we know it.

of the many themes on which you've written SB.... I only have one ( objection ? ) criticism.... and that is of morality. actually..... the word contains so much inherent taint / predeterminedness..... that i believed it should be redefined.

morality is no doubt.... something within the core of an ADDer...... to a large extent it weighs us down. forming expectations based on the views and norms of others creates a cryptonite for us..... and while i have no doubt that doing good, with heart, is part of our psyche..... morality as it is commonly known, is a hindrance.

I'd like morality to be defined as people operating in the best interests of the individual and people.
But there is some element of mind required (ie is xyz in the best interests of people ?)
So - if we switch morality term into something like 'properly social behaviour' - then that seems to work ... ... relying on assessing other peoples' reactions as the sign of whether it's moral.
However - if we were to give out heroin to heroin addicts - we'd experience a positive reaction.

So - we can't quite rely on mind (as understanding could be incomplete ?) and we can't quite rely on other peoples' reaction.

Maybe that's it though.

At wisdom - we attain enforced moral consistency - it's a fixed state - we need not consider morality in it.

And perhapsin the journey to morality - it's not fully knowing or being able to trust others which carries us into a state where we are (though need not consider ourselves as).

Morality as a term, certainly is used to described allegiance to immorality ie supporting current establishment - do not steal from rich people (who themselves have stolen so much more under some legally acceptable form of theft eg rentier capitalism).

Morality as a term, also has a dull aspect to it - which doesn't capture the essence of personal reward when we happen to act consistently with it.

There's the fact that one cannot be moral until wisdom when one becomes morality.
So - morality means nothing until it means (as we're defined by it) nothing.

-*-

Perhaps we need to use all of the terms - attaining morality, happiness, personally satisfying quality, wisdom, free will and properly social functioning in order to capture the 'moment' more precisely.

someothertime
07-16-15, 11:53 AM
morality of the moment... i like that :)

SB_UK
07-16-15, 12:20 PM
We could rephrase 'morality' to 'sustainable fun' ?

Maybe just fun ?

All of those addictive things which we do to ourselves aren't fun.

Fun has an innocent overtone - almost as though it implicitly incorporates morality.

-*-

A personal exploration into having / personal application of having ... ... ... fun ?

SB_UK
07-16-15, 12:22 PM
The next evolutionary jump for man

:-)

A life dedicated to fun.

SB_UK
07-16-15, 12:26 PM
morality of the moment... i like that :)
zeitgeist ?

BellaVita
07-16-15, 02:00 PM
The next evolutionary jump for man

:-)

A life dedicated to fun.


Heck yes. :)

I think you're on to something. ;)

midnightstar
07-16-15, 06:05 PM
I agree.

We will evolve to turn green and photosynthesise.

Photowhatty? :confused:

I think the next step humans must make (evolutionarically if that's even a word) is to become more compassionate towards other living creatures (and that means everyone becoming more compassionate, not just a few)

BellaVita
07-16-15, 06:06 PM
Photowhatty? :confused:

I think the next step humans must make (evolutionarically if that's even a word) is to become more compassionate towards other living creatures (and that means everyone becoming more compassionate, not just a few)

I agree midnightstar. Wise words. :goodpost: