View Full Version : Adhd vs Schizophrenia


JoeGreen
05-26-15, 02:25 PM
Which are the differences between ADHD Inattentive and Schizophrenia? Excluding the hearing voices and visual halucinations.

Corina86
05-26-15, 02:36 PM
Schizophrenia isn't just visual or auditory hallucinations, but also delusions and fake beliefs (you are a a king, others are aliens, the world is ending tomorrow, others are out to get you). People with this disorder don't always realize they have issues, this is why a diagnosis from a psychiatrist is very important. The executive function impairments (issues with attention, memory, planning etc) might be similar with those of ADHD. Only a psychiatrist can put a correct diagnosis.

sarek
05-26-15, 02:48 PM
Essentially AD(H)D does not have the psychotic features that schizophrenia has. For schizophrenia there are "positive" and "negative" symptoms which has nothing to do with how good or bad they are but with the fact that the positive symptoms are the marker by which schizophrenia can de properly diagnosed.
The negative symptoms on the other hand are shared with many other kinds of disorder and so can not serve to tell schizophrenia apart from other issues.

This page makes it clear: http://www.dasmaninstitute.org/mental-health/schizophrenia/schizophrenia-1
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Nekroschizofren
05-26-15, 02:59 PM
Visual hallucinations are quite rare in schizophrenia. ADHD and schizophrenia are entirely different entities.
Your question is akin to asking "What's the difference between an apple and an elephant?"

JoeGreen
05-26-15, 03:00 PM
And what if the cognitive symptoms has been manifestating from childhood?

JoeGreen
05-26-15, 03:07 PM
There are coexisting symptoms in schizophrenia and adhd but do adhd can coexist with psychois?

TygerSan
05-26-15, 07:39 PM
I do think there is a valid question here. Negative and cognitive symptoms of schizophrenia often involve executive dysfunction, as does ADHD, so some of the symptoms can overlap. The cognitive symptoms of schizophrenia are often the hardest to treat (and can be exacerbated by the meds that help with the positive symptoms).

I could see a slow onset psychosis, accompanied by long prodrome, as being misdiagnosed as ADHD in childhood. I am not a clinician, but I think the two disorders are not mutually exclusive, either.

namazu
05-27-15, 12:55 AM
There are coexisting symptoms in schizophrenia and adhd but do adhd can coexist with psychois?
Yes, people can have ADHD and also experience psychosis as part of coexisting conditions -- not only with schizophrenia and ADHD, but sometimes in mood disorders (like bipolar disorder and major depressive disorder) and rarely in other conditions as well. Usually psychotic disorders have their onset in the teen or early adult years, though there are some exceptions (people who experience psychosis in childhood or only later in life).

ADHD alone does not involve psychotic symptoms.

Psychosis can also be brought on by stimulant medications, especially if the medications are misused (though sometimes even when used as prescribed) or if another disorder is misdiagnosed as ADHD. This is an uncommon side effect, but it does happen to some people, especially those with a personal or family history of psychotic disorders.

JoeGreen
05-27-15, 01:43 AM
OK thx for info i will come later with a story.

JoeGreen
05-27-15, 01:46 PM
Im wondering if I realy have a real disorder or im just imature , dumb , lazy and incapable to discipline myself.

Because i wasn't conscious about my bad side , my friends let my know about my behaviours,but in a diffrent way , they dont tell me exactly what is wrong what they do is to suggest or make apropos in an particular way like speaking about something that i can associate with me.They are making fun in this way or pretending they'r upset on me or try to bring back the worst things about my past and judging and interpretating like they know me better then myself all in this manner and spread rumors like im gay or i'v done something terible. Ok, and this excaladate quickly and i have moments when i feel like all is about me and.So i need to take it logicaly, they realy have moments when they're making suggestions about me but on the other side my mind tend to interpretate much more and i try to exclude the false belives and bring in some rational proofs.On the other side they pretend like nothing happend and treat me like they do or exactly like i do ( let me see my behaviours on them and treat me like i do treat them or sometimes worst to prehaps to teach me a lesson).Something realy happend and somethings are just in my mind but the mind tend to make bad associations with all things that doesn't realy happend and i'm trying to exclude them.Ok so this is about psychosis i really don't want to detail this,is a long story but some parts are real some are just bad interpretations , i'm just trying to be calm and ignore all of this ****.

Now I will make you an description about me and my behaviours and what makes me think that i have a misdiagnosed Adhd or Schizophrenia. I realy don't want to bring an excuse but there are some uncommon things.

I'm an 19 yo male i have a medium IQ, i like to smoke tabaco and occasionaly weed and drink alchool and a lot of coffee.I hit the gym to consume my extra energy and i like to hangout.One of my relatives (not first grade) have schizophrenie but i'm not alike he.

This are my simptomes:
Impulsivity- this word realy definite me , i tend to speak and do things before i think through the consequences.
daydreaming- i'm daydreaming a lot, in class , when other people speaks, when i'm alone, about some aspects of my life or random though and im overthinking them a lot.
OCD and anxiety- i'm sure about that
forgetfull and losing things- i forget a lot like people names or where i put the things i need , what i'm supossed to do , etc
atention-Is hard for me to pay atention on activites i want to do unless it present an interest for me and i make a lot of carless mistake.
sluggish cognitive tempo - i find hard to put my brain to work, to procesing informations, to reactionate, to think
procrastination- i'm expert in procrastination
-if find myself doing things robotic, feels like body is doing something but the mind is somewere else
-i find difficult to express my feelings
-i don't speak very much, i speak about important things for me, and i make a lot of errors in speaking ( i'm better in writing), tics, i keep repeting myself, i can't express myself proprely, i have a lot of word lapsus, i can't remember them,
-a lot of imaginary arguments
-i'm easly confused or frustrated
-easly distracted from things i need to do
-i can't stay still and lisen on chair, im constantly moving my arms and legs, playing with things
-tremours and headaches
-disorganized
-is hard for me to keep a diet ( i need to lose some weight)
-i have a low self-esteem
-extremly bored
-i have trouble behaving in socially appropriate ways
-i like to do things on my way
- i keep makeing the same mistake over and over
-i do a lot of things with no purpose
-a lot of gestures with no purpose
-hit myself against car mirrors, walls,pylons,

I will keep adding if i find something new.

Corina86
05-27-15, 03:53 PM
I'm not sure about this, but I though that ADHD is caused by a slight lack of dopamine or insensitivity to it, while schizophrenia is having too much dopamine and this is why the 2 can't coexist. I hope others here know more about the neurology behind the disorders.

BellaVita
05-27-15, 10:07 PM
I'm not sure about this, but I though that ADHD is caused by a slight lack of dopamine or insensitivity to it, while schizophrenia is having too much dopamine and this is why the 2 can't coexist. I hope others here know more about the neurology behind the disorders.

The two can definitely coexist.

mbrandon
05-27-15, 11:43 PM
Please take the weed out of the equation. Yes I know what some people say about it in relation to ADHD. But hear that I'm telling you it can push someone prone to psychosis into psychosis. It will also not allow you to get an actual assessment.

JoeGreen
05-28-15, 02:25 AM
This is true, weed give sometimes paranoia, but depends on the situation, like the cops are on me or increase anxiety

mbrandon
05-28-15, 09:57 PM
This is true, weed give sometimes paranoia, but depends on the situation, like the cops are on me or increase anxiety

Yes but actual schizophrenia, not just paranoia...

daveddd
05-29-15, 06:15 PM
I'm not sure about this, but I though that ADHD is caused by a slight lack of dopamine or insensitivity to it, while schizophrenia is having too much dopamine and this is why the 2 can't coexist. I hope others here know more about the neurology behind the disorders.

i think this is generally not true, i can see how the correlation could be made though


someone who meets the criteria for adhd can definitely go on to meet the criteria for schizophrenia

i wouldn't think of it as one vs the other, as much as a foundational problem that escalates further

Clinical and functional implications of a history of childhood ADHD in first-episode psychosis.
Rho A1, Traicu A2, Lepage M3, Iyer SN4, Malla A5, Joober R6.
Author information
Abstract
There is mounting evidence indicating that a childhood history of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is associated with an increased risk for psychotic disorders, including schizophrenia. However, the implications of such a history on the symptomatic and functional outcomes of patients with psychotic disorders are still not well documented. This study examined the prevalence of childhood ADHD in patients with first episode psychosis (FEP) consecutively admitted to a specialized early intervention clinic covering a well-defined catchment area, and compared patients with and without a history of childhood ADHD on socio-demographic, clinical, and functional outcomes over a six to twelve months period. Out of 179 patients with FEP, 27 (15%) were treated for ADHD during childhood, consistent with previous literature indicating an association between childhood ADHD and psychosis. FEP patients with childhood history of ADHD had lower academic achievement, earlier onset of psychosis, and higher rates of childhood conduct and learning disorder. While the two groups had similar scores on psychopathology and functioning at baseline, patients with childhood ADHD showed significantly less improvement in positive and negative symptoms, as well as social and occupational functioning. These results strongly indicate that a history of childhood ADHD in FEP is more frequent than that reported in the general population and predictive of poorer clinical response to treatment. This emphasizes the need for actively screening for a history of ADHD in FEP patients and for treatments that are tailored for these patients.
Copyright 2015 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.
KEYWORDS:

daveddd
05-29-15, 06:19 PM
low vs high dopamine


Psychotic disorders comorbid with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder: an important knowledge gap.
Levy E1, Traicu A2, Iyer S3, Malla A4, Joober R4.
Author information
Abstract
Psychotic disorders (PDs) and attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) are frequently comorbid. Clinicians are often reticent to treat ADHD in patients with psychosis, fearing that psychostimulants will worsen psychotic symptoms. Advances in neurobiology have challenged the simplistic dichotomy where PD is considered a disorder of high dopamine (DA), treated by DA antagonists, and ADHD a disorder of low DA, treated by DA agonists. In our paper, we review the literature on comorbid ADHD and psychosis. Treating ADHD with psychostimulants may be considered in patients with PD who have been stabilized with antipsychotics (APs). Not treating ADHD may have consequences because ADHD may predispose patients to drug abuse, which further increases the risk of PD. Nevertheless, more systematic studies are needed as there remains some uncertainty on the combined use of APs and psychostimulants in comorbid PD and ADHD.


full article
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4418622/

JoeGreen
05-30-15, 06:14 AM
The combination of this two is ******* chaos.

bizarre101
05-30-15, 06:17 AM
there may be some cross-traits, but imo schizophrenia and adhd are exclusive to each other. either - or. not both.

schizophrenics are a class of its own really.
and when you are adhd, they HATE you.
just when they see you...

thats interesting, isnt it?

JoeGreen
05-30-15, 07:27 AM
what is happening in the minds of people with schizophrenia's reality? (mind) They looks detached and isolated from this world.

Abi
05-30-15, 11:17 AM
***Moderator Note***

I would like to request all participants to cease using the terms "schiz" or "schizo" in referring to people with schizophrenia.

It is really offensive and uncalled for.

Thank you

JoeGreen
05-30-15, 12:56 PM
I don't mean to offend anyone when i use this term.

Abi
05-30-15, 01:07 PM
Hi Joe, we know that, but it's nevertheless potentially offensive to sufferers of the condition due to the use of the term in popular culture. :)

JoeGreen
05-30-15, 02:37 PM
I'm sorry in sombody take a displeasure against my comments , i think the people who doesn't sufffer from any illness should understand that the mind of the people with schizophrenia is spilt not the soul ;)

Fortune
05-30-15, 02:54 PM
there may be some cross-traits, but imo schizophrenia and adhd are exclusive to each other. either - or. not both.

IYO is inaccurate. The two do occur together:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21905996 discusses suicidal ideation in people who have both ADHD and schizophrenia.

This is the complete study. (http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andreas_Meyer-Lindenberg/publication/221931284_Comorbidity_of_schizophrenia_and_adult_a ttention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder/links/0c96053634254892d5000000.pdf)

I can think of a few people who have both schizophrenia and ADHD, and if one includes schizoaffective disorder, the list becomes longer. The study itself took a sample of 27 people with schizophrenia and 12 had ADHD. I mean, that's 44.44% who had both ADHD and SZ just out of a single sample. That's extremely high for "schizophrenia and adhd are exclusive to each other. either - or. not both."

schizophrenics are a class of its own really.
and when you are adhd, they HATE you.
just when they see you...

thats interesting, isnt it?

That's not my experience at all and I have interacted with more than a few people who have schizophrenia, and none of them HATE me.

Also, given how many conditions can develop psychosis (depression and PTSD both come to mind) I don't think schizophrenia is a "class of its own." Like all mental illness, schizophrenia is a selection of traits that tend to occur alongside each other, and these traits also occur alongside other mental health diagnoses. This is a much blurrier picture with more crossover than you are trying to paint.

rickymooston
06-09-15, 11:13 PM
Which are the differences between ADHD Inattentive and Schizophrenia? Excluding the hearing voices and visual halucinations.

Almost everything but you excluded the two most obvious things

Want more? Delusions are also associated with schitzophrenia

In short, schitizophrenia is associated with such a severe impairment that you don't know what is real, you cant think straight.

ADHD on the otherhand is not associated with perception or thought quality but execution

Memory. focus, etc.

What is the difference between a broken leg and lung cancer but ignore the fact that LC kills you

Corina86
06-10-15, 12:48 PM
I know this thread is already getting old and I don't know if Joe is still around, but he seems to have ADHD inattentive symptoms and nothing to suggest schizophrenia (from his post, assuming he didn't leave out anything important).

sarek
06-11-15, 02:29 AM
IYO is inaccurate. The two do occur together:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21905996 discusses suicidal ideation in people who have both ADHD and schizophrenia.

This is the complete study. (http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andreas_Meyer-Lindenberg/publication/221931284_Comorbidity_of_schizophrenia_and_adult_a ttention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder/links/0c96053634254892d5000000.pdf)

I can think of a few people who have both schizophrenia and ADHD, and if one includes schizoaffective disorder, the list becomes longer. The study itself took a sample of 27 people with schizophrenia and 12 had ADHD. I mean, that's 44.44% who had both ADHD and SZ just out of a single sample. That's extremely high for "schizophrenia and adhd are exclusive to each other. either - or. not both."



That's not my experience at all and I have interacted with more than a few people who have schizophrenia, and none of them HATE me.



I fully agree with what you said. I have been in a relationship with someone who had schizophrenia (or schizoaffective disorder, jury is out on that one) with such strong ADHD like traits that she checked out this forum for answers. It was only after a few months that it became obvious that someone was not right with her suspicion of it just being ADHD.

someothertime
06-11-15, 09:38 AM
Externally, both diagnosis seem to be compared due to "daydreaming" ( disassociation ).... which from outside, are often misunderstood..... especially with ADDers being labelled as "off the planet" et. al.....

Internally, an Adder is ticking through cognitive competitors.... or giving their mind a break..... and possibly juggling emotions and related steering obstacles ;)......

Schizophenia neurochemically operates in alternate realms...... where the mind is actually else where..... the word delusion is often used........ aka....... realtime not reality is reality...... totally different.....

But yes.... I can see how externally they might appear alike,...

Fortune
06-12-15, 05:38 PM
In addition to psychosis, schizophrenia is associated with negative symptoms, some of which may resemble depression, some may resemble ADHD.

Further, while anosognosia (lack of insight) is not at all unusual among people with SZ (or other diagnoses associated with psychosis), the real number is around 50% of people with SZ have anosognosia. Also, 40% of people with bipolar disorder (most common with those who have psychotic features).

Also, SZ (also SZA, bipolar disorder, psychotic depression, psychosis NOS, schizophreniphorm disorder, and any other diagnosis that can be associated with psychosis) is not necessarily 100% disconnected from reality, and I think a more useful measure is how much the positive and negative symptoms (delusions, hallucinations, etc) impair the person experiencing them.

Mostly, I wouldn't make any broad claims about what it's like to have SZ, because there are so many ways for SZ to present and generalizations really do not help. This sort of discussion can be alienating if one isn't careful and compassionate in their approach to discussing the diagnosis in question.

Fortune
06-12-15, 10:19 PM
er, that should be "how much the positive (delusions, hallucinations, etc) and negative symptoms impair the person experiencing them."

icarusinflames
06-12-15, 10:54 PM
To the original poster: Are you trying to figure out if you are schizophrenic because you get paranoid about your friends' intentions, and they also claim that some things you remember did not actually happen?

I think it is possible with ADHD to actually believe things wrongly and just lay a blanket cause on to things, without considering other alternatives. It doesn't help that some experiences will serve to validate our paranoid thoughts. Some things we will actually believe until we get to a point of being able to reevaluate the past situations in the light of our knowledge of ADHD type of thinking.

I always felt like I was being gaslighted by my family. To be gaslighted is where people tell you that situations did not happen, because they do not remember it at all. Or they may tell you that you took things wrong.

The truth can be somewhere in the middle or it can be possible that you really were imagining those things.

The very fact that you are coming here and talking about it would suggest to me that you are not schizophrenic, because you understand that these negative attitudes from your friends may not actually exist. BUT you know that your emotional reality says that you do feel they were putting you down or laughing at you, etc.

It would be smart to pursue these thoughts in therapy so you can safely work through the feelings. I think what is obvious is that you are feeling very badly, whether this is made worse by frivolous or uncaring friends or you are truly in an emotional place of not being able to handle your "hyper-reactivity" and mood dysregulation. If you find you are having outburts, then it gets more upsetting because it's one thing to think things, and it's another to feel embarrassed by verbal outbursts. (Most people who have ADHD do tend to have a hard time delaying or filtering their speech).

Hang in there. I think you are on the right path, to ask the questions. I hope you find someone really nice to talk to in therapy too.

daveddd
06-13-15, 12:01 AM
what is happening in the minds of people with schizophrenia's reality? (mind) They looks detached and isolated from this world.


in some instances the inner world of someone with schizophrenia could be the exact opposite of their look


paul meehls schizotype theory is interesting

a range deficits from inattentive and memory problems to catanoic schizophrenia

it can present as borderline personality, avoidant, paranoid

nowadays it could definitely meet the criteria for and receive a ADHD DX




if you're ever curious


https://books.google.com/books?id=qd1Sc2Lep-IC&pg=PA318&dq=schizotype+meehl&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CFMQ6AEwCGoVChMI8p74lOKLxgIVQc6ACh0VTQBS#v=on epage&q=schizotype%20meehl&f=false

JoeGreen
06-27-15, 08:10 PM
Sorry for long inactivity, I'm having a hard time during the finals.
Recently, like 2 days ago i'v been diagnosticated with ADD and OCD, i'm not taking any meds but i'm duing therapy since 1 month, I feel slightly better now,the headaches had stopped and self-esteem is higher.
The doctor says that i have nothing to do with schizophrenia, i was drived in that way due my sever OCD and social higher social stress.He thinks that therapy is ok at this moment and the meds are not necessary now because my Add is not that severe.I have an appointment in 1 month and if therapy don't show improvments he will put me on meds.

Nobody thinks that i have a major problem even my parents.I'm having a hard time with coping and hideing my weeknesses, i'm just trying to adapt to this way of life.
If I would try to explain my situation to somebody he won't belive me and would say that i'm joking or i'm just slow, stupid and some personality/character problems. Why? due my introversion cuz i'm not communicating my thoughts and feelings and i'm inhibated and i keep masking my weeknesses?