View Full Version : Types of ADHD medication and types of pain?


mildadhd
05-27-15, 08:44 PM
In a different thread there was discussion partly about self medicating with pain medication.

I was wondering if some types of ADHD medication, at least partially relieve some types of pain?

(This thread is also meant to directly and indirectly, explore and learn, more about types of non-pharma and pharma ADHD and pain medicine/treatment, in general)

Everyone's Opinions appreciated!

General Neurophysiology also appreciated if known?


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Drewbacca
05-27-15, 10:02 PM
Physical pain? No. Nothing that I've ever heard of.

treating adhd with pain med? you mean pseudoephedrine?

BellaVita
05-27-15, 10:08 PM
Every time I get put on pain meds, I get super hyper and lots of thoughts. (Vicodin etc.)

Every once in a while it made me focus better.

mildadhd
05-27-15, 10:44 PM
Physical pain? No. Nothing that I've ever heard of.

treating adhd with pain med? you mean pseudoephedrine?

I am not sure, yet.

Homeostatic pain

Emotional pain

Sensory pain

Cognitive pain

Layman.

Need more neurophysiological Information about types of pain?

I have only tried a couple of different types of methylphenidate.

I have not experienced any other pharma medications, for ADHD.

(And not very much about non pharma treatment, scattered Mindfulness when randomly reminded, but no ordered structure, yet.)

I think I feel less emotional pain and cognitive pain, when I take methyphenidate, but I am not sure if I feel less of all types of physical pain?

I have not thought about the neurophysiology of pain or ADHD medication, hoping to learn more in this thread.

Greyhound1
05-27-15, 10:58 PM
Stimulants have helped relieve some of the mental pain from constantly beating myself up for my ADHD mistakes.

mildadhd
05-27-15, 11:02 PM
Every time I get put on pain meds, I get super hyper and lots of thoughts. (Vicodin etc.)

Every once in a while it made me focus better.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Some types of cannabis for pain, have similar effects for me, not sure if it is directly or indirectly related?

I will need to study the neurophysiology involved.



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mildadhd
05-27-15, 11:04 PM
Stimulants have helped relieve some of the mental pain from constantly beating myself up for my ADHD mistakes.

Definitely.

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Corina86
05-28-15, 12:46 PM
I'm not sure if Concerta increases pain tolerance or it cuts the pain at the source (nerves), but it's great for headaches and even stomach aches. It also helps with the runny nose. As for emotional pain, I have way less moments when I'm feeling down if I'm on Concerta. It also cuts down the stress and annoyance that lack of energy brings.

mildadhd
05-28-15, 10:22 PM
I get back pain when I work heavy labor.

Today I didn't take any pain relievers and my back was aching later in the day.

I also was a couple hours late taking methylphenidate.

And when I did take methyphenidate late in the afternoon, my back did seem to ache less, til I got home and took some Tylenol.


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KarmanMonkey
05-29-15, 11:01 AM
Depression can erode our pain tolerance, so if the ADD meds treat an underlying depression, I'm certain it would seem to treat pain as well.

Also, most ADD meds play with dopamine, which tinkers with the stress response in our system, as well as producing additional endorphins, which are our brain's natural feel good and/or pain killer hormone. The hormone changes are one of the ways in which women cope with childbirth; an experience that (according to Carol Burnette) is the pain equivilent of pulling your bottom lip over your head.

Medical marijuana acts according to a similar mechanism. The cause of the pain is still there; we just care less :-) (by the way, I highly recommend close monitoring for anyone with ADD who decides to use marijuana, as we have a huge risk of developing psychosis compared to the general population)

bizarre101
05-30-15, 06:53 AM
Every time I get put on pain meds, I get super hyper and lots of thoughts. (Vicodin etc.)

Every once in a while it made me focus better.

can you try something that weakens the immune system / slows it down, like corticosteroids (or something its called), as prednisolone... could have the same or a similar effect?

imo, your observation is very interesting and should be accurate for everyone who is adhd...

Little Missy
05-30-15, 08:54 AM
Prednisone can shoot you To The Moon.

I'm an aspirin lover myself.

daveddd
05-30-15, 08:11 PM
can you try something that weakens the immune system / slows it down, like corticosteroids (or something its called), as prednisolone... could have the same or a similar effect?

imo, your observation is very interesting and should be accurate for everyone who is adhd...

don't think its accurate for everyone with ADHD

I've seen it though

it gives me energy , kills my social anxiety and makes me want to be around people , allows my thoughts and speech to flow freely and lets me express emotion

from the research I've found on it, i think it may do this, for more inhibited, constricted or introverted types

mildadhd
05-30-15, 09:31 PM
Depression can erode our pain tolerance, so if the ADD meds treat an underlying depression, I'm certain it would seem to treat pain as well.

Also, most ADD meds play with dopamine, which tinkers with the stress response in our system, as well as producing additional endorphins, which are our brain's natural feel good and/or pain killer hormone. The hormone changes are one of the ways in which women cope with childbirth; an experience that (according to Carol Burnette) is the pain equivilent of pulling your bottom lip over your head.

Medical marijuana acts according to a similar mechanism. The cause of the pain is still there; we just care less :-) (by the way, I highly recommend close monitoring for anyone with ADD who decides to use marijuana, as we have a huge risk of developing psychosis compared to the general population)

Thanks.

Yes I think it very important to discuss everything with and be monitored by your doctors.

I am assuming methyphenidate is considered psychoactive substance as well?

I wonder what is the differences between psychoactive and psychosis?

I wonder if to much methylphenidate can raise the risk of developing psychosis?

Thoughts?




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mildadhd
05-30-15, 11:23 PM
..Chronic abuse of methylphenidate can also lead to psychosis.[22][23]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulant_psychosis


According to these citations Methyphenidate abuse may lead to psychosis.

Need to find some good definitions of psychosis?

All thoughts appreciated.



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Lizzie80
06-20-15, 04:36 AM
In a different thread there was discussion partly about self medicating with pain medication.

I was wondering if some types of ADHD medication, at least partially relieve some types of pain?

(This thread is also meant to directly and indirectly, explore and learn, more about types of non-pharma and pharma ADHD and pain medicine/treatment, in general)

Everyone's Opinions appreciated!

General Neurophysiology also appreciated if known?


P

I take Vyvanse for Inattentive ADD and while it's active (approx. 6-8 hours) in my system, it decreases pain from fibromyalgia and osteoarthritis to the point where I basically forget I have the conditions! Not one other class of medication (and believe me, I've been prescribed them all!) has ever done that for me. I would take it for that respite from what was once crippling physical pain even if it did nothing for ADD.

It is completely hit or miss on depression or brain fog, though. It can make me emotionally better or it can make me worse, and I've yet to figure out why. It is also inconsistent mentally. I'm a pretty consistent individual in lifestyle, don't drink, don't smoke, don't take illicit drugs, get daily exercise, eat well. Vyvanse is an interesting med. I'll leave it at that!

mildadhd
06-20-15, 08:22 PM
I take Vyvanse for Inattentive ADD and while it's active (approx. 6-8 hours) in my system, it decreases pain from fibromyalgia and osteoarthritis to the point where I basically forget I have the conditions! Not one other class of medication (and believe me, I've been prescribed them all!) has ever done that for me. I would take it for that respite from what was once crippling physical pain even if it did nothing for ADD.

It is completely hit or miss on depression or brain fog, though. It can make me emotionally better or it can make me worse, and I've yet to figure out why. It is also inconsistent mentally. I'm a pretty consistent individual in lifestyle, don't drink, don't smoke, don't take illicit drugs, get daily exercise, eat well. Vyvanse is an interesting med. I'll leave it at that!

Thanks. Interesting, your experience is much appreciated.

I don't have any knowledge or experience with Vyvanse, and really would like to learn about all types ADHD medications and types of pain.

Gives me a much better idea.

I am slowly becoming more and more curious about the chemistries of the BodyBrainMind, the science of pain, etc.

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SB_UK
06-22-15, 09:21 AM
Thinking -

[1] Increased (beyond certain level) firing of nerves produces pain.
[2] Increased sensitivity in ADHD

[3] Only ever happy in the absence of stimulation - easily over-stimulated -> pain.

SB_UK
06-22-15, 11:08 AM
The 'princess and the pea' felt pain which others wouldn't have felt because of her sensitivity.

I'd suggest that we're under an onslaught of information because of our sensitivity (highly sensitive person) and that's about it really.

Why do ADDers feel more ?

Must be something along the lines of our 'doors of perception' are open.

Which leads into this "In summary, Huxley writes that the ability to think straight is not reduced while under the influence of mescaline, visual impressions are intensified, and the human experimenter will see no reason for action because the experience is so fascinating."
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=The_Doors_of_Perception

... .. which feeds us back into this quote:

All human evil comes from a single cause, man's inability to sit still in a room.
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/blaise_pascal.html#jFYLpt4TbHzFFkoJ.99

-*-

So ... ... the Highly Sensitive Person/ADDer is identified as a type that is fine left alone.
Completely inline with the inattentive ADDers capacity to simply sit still.

The hyperactive ADDer's incapacity to sit still, I think relates more to having to pay attention to a teacher who's boring them.

Or maybe - we're looking at the seated and the walking meditation types ie sufficient reward when seated O+ or moving O-> - but nothing else required other than informational flow through the senses.

-*-

Over-stimulation -> pain.
Over-stimulation -> stress -> stress-mediated disorders of the endocrine system.

-*-

Personally - all of my problems go away when moving in silence in the sun.

SB_UK
06-22-15, 01:32 PM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Houghton_MS_Am_1506_%284%29_-_Cranch.jpg/640px-Houghton_MS_Am_1506_%284%29_-_Cranch.jpg

"In order to truly appreciate nature, one must not only look at it and admire it but must be able to feel it taking over his/her senses. This process requires absolute "solitude, a man needs to retire as much from his chamber as from society"[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparent_eyeball#cite_note-EmersonNature7-1) to uninhabited places like the woods"

^ exactly

- but there's a cost - you can't return to the polluted urban sprawl.

SB_UK
06-22-15, 01:48 PM
It's more like dissolving in nature - don't see anything or register anything - just immersion.

SB_UK
06-23-15, 04:44 AM
It's more like dissolving in nature - don't see anything or register anything - just immersion.

Dissolving in nature
Dissociation

Dissociative -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative -> opiate (pain killer)

Types of ADHD medication and types of pain?

Point.
The state I'm describing acts as a kinda' state in which pain is arrested.

-*-

So back around to the idea that over-stimulation causes us pain, and we've all we need to 'dissociate' (nature's pain-killer) if we're allowed to access the place that Emerson ^^^ describes above.

-*-

So - what is ADHD ?

A state in which conditional on our social environment - we can attain reward through simple existence.

Predisposition to dissociation ?

SB_UK
06-23-15, 05:00 AM
The problem with memory.

It's better to forget.

Memory 'traps' you in the past.

Many dissociatives [lead to] amnesia.

So how're you meant to live in the present, in the now etc ... ... with one ??

SB_UK
06-23-15, 05:35 AM
So - the general point would be that there's a 'feeling' which we want to achieve.

The existence of eg our 2 major classes of illicit drugs - opiate and cocaine class - teaches us that human beings appear to want to activate these - and particularly (wikiP/speedball drug) in tandem.

However - we can do it for ourselves.

wikip/dissociative
"Some, which are nonselective in action and affect the dopamine[3] and/or opioid[4] systems, may be capable of inducing euphoria."

dopamine + opioid system activation through endogenous dissociation - mechanism as described by Emerson.

Dissociation.
Transcendentalism.

-*-

What's the trick ?

Develop a mind which knows right from wrong.
Develop a mind which understands (simply) how evolution works.

The mind runs out of steam - opens the door to sensory information floating our boat - and then we access bliss.

Dissociation - through simple presence in the sun, in silence - ideally with a dog - walking.

You don't see [notice] anything - your mind simply ups and floats away.

Abi
06-23-15, 05:57 AM
Moderator Note

The topic of this thread is ADHD meds and meds for physical pain.

Please keep your posts on topic.

Off topic posts earlier in the thread will be removed. Further off topic posting will garner infractions.

Thank you.

SB_UK
06-23-15, 08:11 AM
If we look at the drugs of abuse - we can gain some intimate knowledge into where we're heading.

People like those various drugs.

But the point isn't to take them - but to realise that the neural mechanisms which they operate on are there for a reason and can be activated naturally.

Looking at the combined effect of all classes of drugs from dissociatives, hallucinogens, stimulants and narcotics - coming together on the 'feeling' which we unlock when we complete mind and know morality.

And dissolve into nature, lose ourselves, no longer feel the need for any*thing*, no longer have anyplace else we'd rather be.

ADDers are predisposed to reaching this state because our mind is of a slightly different underlying structure and will now allow us to house inconsistent information relating to the nature of reality/morality.

SB_UK
06-24-15, 04:02 AM
To determine if treatment with the sympathomimetic amine dextroamphetamine sulfate, which has been so effective in treating a variety of pain syndromes
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24707694

SB_UK
06-24-15, 04:20 AM
As simple as -

no motivation -> pain when one applies oneself.
motivation -> no pain when one engages

dexedrine
switches off alarm bells

Key - to have motivation

What is motivation ?
To 'think' that something is worthwhile.

If one thinks a task is worthwhile - then one will be motivated.

So - we need to look at the minds of ADDers to see what we/thery're thinking.

If the ADDer has a big picture mind tendency - then a task which is neither here nor there (eg some pointless task for money) will not motivate.

ADDer will feel pain.

Problems will ensue.

SB_UK
06-24-15, 05:01 AM
I think we may need to ask the question - what determines whether an individual feels motivation towards any given task ?

To which there'd have to be some measure of reward imagined, motivating engagement.

But the problem - as ever - is that there're 2 types of reward.

Selfish reward - what's in it for you to take ?
Social [higher] reward - what's in it for you to give ?

To be motivational (rewarding) to give - it's reasonable to assume that whatever you're giving will be received well, will make their lives better ... ...

Just giving away an old collection of stamps to your next door neighbour is likely to be neither here nor there.

Little Missy
06-24-15, 07:39 AM
Pretty painful reading this on Adderall.

SB_UK
06-24-15, 08:29 AM
But the problem - as ever - is that there're 2 types of reward.

Selfish reward - what's in it for you to take ?
Social [higher] reward - what's in it for you to give ?



And in the end, the love you take; is equal to the love you make

Exactly.

Social reward system - the reward you feel is equal to the reward you engender in another.

That's the problem.
How do we get to feel 'satisfaction' ?
We can chase all of the usual addictive pursuits - but they leave you hollow.
The only means of feeling 'satisfaction' is through reflection of the reward others feel (through mirror neurones of the reward system).

Really neat - the mechanism by which we will form as a social species will undoubtedly be through us seeing our own reward system as mirror neurones of the reward system of others.

And so what'll cause us pain ?
Any drive which we embrace which doesn't lead to reward ... ... through failing to make life better for people.

Little Missy
06-24-15, 08:51 AM
Maybe it was the drawing of eye-head guy barefoot that wigged me out.

It is horribly painful for me to walk barefoot on the ground.

Fuzzy12
06-24-15, 08:55 AM
I'm not sure if there is a direct relationship between specific ADHD meds and pain but I've found that:

1. Definitely relieves emotional pain (probably by improving emotional regulation)

2. Results in less stress (which can cause many types of physical pain or cause conditions that can result in pain)

3. Allows me to function even when I'm in mild-moderate pain probably because of the improved emotional regulation.

In general, I can't actually remember being in pain while on meds (in the last 1.5 years that I've been taking on them) and stuff gets more painful when the meds wear off or I haven't taken them but this only holds true for more persistent types of pain. I can definitely feel acute, short lived pain (like hitting my toes on something, which I do constantly :rolleyes:)

SB_UK
06-24-15, 10:27 AM
Maybe it was the drawing of eye-head guy barefoot that wigged me out.

It is horribly painful for me to walk barefoot on the ground.

Yes - connection between barefoot (minimalist shoes) and dissociation is interesting.

All of the 'touch' information relayed from the foot.

The dictionary of the Russian language...defines the sense of touch as follows: "In reality all five senses can be reduced to one---the sense of touch.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensorium

Each foot has 200,000 receptors on each sole feeding back vital information about the ground we are moving on.

-*-

There'd be some measure of irony if we were to identify the human addiction for footwear (from Nike to Reebok) as the basis to our driving impetus towards collapsing the world we live in - through failure to dissociate. Point I'm makind is whether we 'starve' ourselves of necessary information by wearing shoes - and that this absence in information upload prevents us from reaching our happy mental state of dissociative trance.

Don't know ^^^ about this idea - it's attractive though.

http://www.movementislife.be/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/I10-13-homunculus.jpg

Abi
06-24-15, 11:13 AM
Adidas FTW

Skyf@ll
06-25-15, 01:18 AM
I think we have evolved since the barefooted times. Even Jesus wore sandals.

Skyf@ll
06-25-15, 03:50 AM
It's blasphemy for saying Jesus prefers Jordan's to Adidas? Lol