View Full Version : Whey Protein and Dex


marc54
05-28-15, 09:53 PM
Hi all,

First off, Thankyou! This forum has been informative beyond any other source ive found online as its based on the lives of others like me!

Now to the subject of whey protein. I am quite the gym junkie and have been using protein for years to supplement a restricted calorie diet in this time.

When I started my treatment for ADD-PI(sct, abc, wtf) or whatever acronym I am now I made sure to take my morning 15mg(15mg at lunch is final dose) of Dex with a few eggs, some whey protein and some krill oil. Firstly, I find dex really only efficacious for 2-3max hours before I feel quite scattered and lost in the clouds again and was wondering if whey protein may be the cause? Ive found it hard to confirm whether its acidic or not as google as it often does has shown me evidence on both sides. Being such a commonly used supplement I was certain somebody would have experience with it.

Protein nutrional info : my serves would contain:
0.6g Aspartic acid ph 3.9 , 0.85g Glutamic acid ph 4.2. Not sure on the impact of these acids in these doses but apparently they have side chains at neutral ph, https://www.chem.wisc.edu/deptfiles/genchem/netorial/modules/biomolecules/modules/protein1/prot14.htm Would that mean they are alkalizing once absorbed? Making the protein acidic with medication but alkalizing the body after?

Im considering getting into intermittent fasting right now which would involve me not eating until probably around 4 hours after my meds. My protein intake is well and truly on the money as well as my EFAs and the like. Would this possibly provide a better environment for the Dex to function? I really dont want to have to add another dosage in the day because it does exasperate my mild insomnia to impactful. Thanks

Greyhound1
05-29-15, 12:26 AM
Welcome to the forum!

I would check your supplement closely. It probably contains tyrosine and phenylalanine and could be causing the issues your having with Dex. They work as a stimulant.

I found this about taking them together in supplement form.

A---The reason for not taking phenylalanine with tyrosine:
Since phenylalanine DIRECTLY converts to phenylalanine hydroxylase, it FLOODS the access to the blood/brain barrier, competing with the tyrosine hydroxylaze. But since phenylalanine DIRECTLY converts into phenylalanine hydroxylaze, it is going to reach the blood/brain barrier faster than tyrosine, which hs several metabolic steps for tyrosine hydroxylaze.

B---The reason for not taking phenylalanine AT ALL
1---Phenylalanine gives a short stimulant effect in the brain, but then has a rebound effect of DEPLETING dopamine and norepinepherine.
2---Poop-out of phenylalanine is very common, and, like other stimulants, you have to take some days off, to get the benefit back. However, this yo-yo effect is probably destabilizing for bipolars (or unipolars as well).

marc54
05-29-15, 01:16 AM
Welcome to the forum!

I would check your supplement closely. It probably contains tyrosine and phenylalanine and could be causing the issues your having with Dex. They work as a stimulant.

I found this about taking them together in supplement form.


That is quite illuminating actually. Ive definitely found that since ive started the meds evening workouts have seemed to really bring on insomnia far worse than in the past. From what you quoted my protein could have been 'reactivating' the meds at the worst possible time? Or even just depleting the neurotransmitters on top of the depletion from the meds. I felt really washed out for a few weeks. Thankyou, I will try just adjusting my diet to cut it out completely.

GeordieDave
05-29-15, 02:32 AM
Hi, welcome to the forums!

I'm on quite a similar diet,

2 shakes of whey protein (BulkPowders) 1 morning and 1 evening
5g of Creatine in each shake
2x Krill Oil Capsules in the morning as well.

I eat 4/5 times a day, as healthy as possible as I'm wanting to gain some mass.
Eggs, chicken, turkey, brown rice, veg, pasta, tuna, etc..

However I'm on Wellbutrin, not Dex. I, so far have not had any problems.. I would say the best thing you can do is trial and error, skip the whey protein for a few days and see how you feel (make sure you eat plenty of protein and carbs, so you can keep gaining). Then go back on the shakes and see if that makes any difference.

Which whey gainer have you got? You got to watch out with whey protein shakes, A LOT of them are full of crap and a lot of sugar. Me personally I am thinking of finishing this bag and simply sticking to creatine and eating well.

marc54
05-29-15, 03:19 AM
Hi, welcome to the forums!

I'm on quite a similar diet,

2 shakes of whey protein (BulkPowders) 1 morning and 1 evening
5g of Creatine in each shake
2x Krill Oil Capsules in the morning as well.

I eat 4/5 times a day, as healthy as possible as I'm wanting to gain some mass.
Eggs, chicken, turkey, brown rice, veg, pasta, tuna, etc..

However I'm on Wellbutrin, not Dex. I, so far have not had any problems.. I would say the best thing you can do is trial and error, skip the whey protein for a few days and see how you feel (make sure you eat plenty of protein and carbs, so you can keep gaining). Then go back on the shakes and see if that makes any difference.

Which whey gainer have you got? You got to watch out with whey protein shakes, A LOT of them are full of crap and a lot of sugar. Me personally I am thinking of finishing this bag and simply sticking to creatine and eating well.


Exactly what im about to do. I also just read a study that indicates a higher release of Nor-epinephrine whilst fasted, which to my knowledge is what im taking dex to boost.

"This study showed that short-term starvation leads to a progressive increase in serum concentrations of norepinephrine, accompanied by an increase in resting energy expenditure, lipolysis, and ketogenesis in healthy, lean subjects. "
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/6/1511.full

I did some calculations and embarassingly my evening meal which consists of about 500 grams of chicken breast contains my daily protein needs and then some. Protein powder really is totally unnecessary and is definitely doing more harm than good when people (as I was) are consuming double the protein their body can use. I dont use gainers im more the other way in that I need to watch my caloric intake. But by simply deleting these stupid shakes from my life i have another 400 calories a day to put towards real foods that will keep me from being hungry while on restriction.

Most people hear "1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight", when in fact its actually .082 grams per pound of lean muscle mass. So at 160 pounds using a LBM calculator I would have around 120 pounds of LBM. Lets round it up to 130 to be safe. Instead of me consuming 160gs of protein im actually only needing around 100. And unless you arent eating meat its almost guaranteed you will eat 100g of protein a day. You can then assign these extra calories so, in this case thats another 240 calories you can assign to carbs or fats. In my case im going to increase carbs as I will be eating my main means prior to evening workouts and they will also help with relaxation afterward as well as spike insulin to draw more goodies to the muscle.
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

Couple this with the Norepinephrine release during fasting and a supposed increase in mental clarity and overall energy and im very interested to see how my body reacts.

Unfortunately im off for an overseas trip to Italy tomorrow and I think it might be just poor manners to not eat lunches while im there. But when I return! I will be not eating the heck out of stuff!.. untill later in the day!

Edit: And thankyou both for the welcomes.

GeordieDave
05-29-15, 04:08 AM
That's some great information there buddy! You've given me even more reason to stop the whey gainer now! I might not even finish the bag! Just brought 4.5KG a week ago! Feel like I'm wasting money if I don't finish it haha.

Italy?! Great! Full of pasta! Just what you want lol! Enjoy your trip mate!

and thank's for the info!

marc54
05-29-15, 04:43 AM
That's some great information there buddy! You've given me even more reason to stop the whey gainer now! I might not even finish the bag! Just brought 4.5KG a week ago! Feel like I'm wasting money if I don't finish it haha.

Italy?! Great! Full of pasta! Just what you want lol! Enjoy your trip mate!

and thank's for the info!

Haha yea, Im going to try my best not to mention nutrition while im there. Well depending on your LBM and diet you very likely dont need it at all. Its actually fantastic because I wont be spending money on that crap anymore either. Can put 100 bucks a month into a 'screw protein' fund instead and buy a new phone every year instead.. or maybe send your GF flowers once a month. The possibilities are endless!!!(as long as they are valued less than $100/month).

Take care and good luck!

GeordieDave
05-29-15, 05:40 AM
Haha yeah! Some people are OBSESSED with supplements. I would advise investing in Creatine, it's cheap and it's probably the best supplement out there. Just make sure its 100% Creatine Monohydrate.

It works wonders and it's cheap. You can get 500grams which will last you 2/3 months for about $12 (Aus)

Greyhound1
05-29-15, 06:08 PM
That is quite illuminating actually. Ive definitely found that since ive started the meds evening workouts have seemed to really bring on insomnia far worse than in the past. From what you quoted my protein could have been 'reactivating' the meds at the worst possible time? Or even just depleting the neurotransmitters on top of the depletion from the meds. I felt really washed out for a few weeks. Thankyou, I will try just adjusting my diet to cut it out completely.

I also take a whey protein based shake. I had issues with Adderall when I drank them in the morning. I found it to be much more beneficial having my shake in the evening when my meds. are wearing off.