View Full Version : Do we inattentive bunch suffer more?


Ing3nium
06-05-15, 02:27 PM
My brother and sister have ADHD combined type and I have inattentive type ADHD, and I really send the message across that we inattentive people really DO seem to suffer at a greater magnitude than our counterparts.

I'm the oldest and the most qualified until very recently my brother got accepted into my university for Law (same university as me), and I have wasted approximately 3 years trying to pass things but been unable to do so due to my profound inattention.

My university is in top 3rd in UK for my subject, and I've just recently been diagnosed and provided with medications. My siblings don't take any medications for their hyperactive symptoms.

I failed few colleges course, I failed first year university, I almost failed second at university and I was educationally misplaced in a special school.

How would medicated inattentive type fare with unmedicated ADHD combined types?

:mad::mad::confused::confused:

Lunacie
06-05-15, 05:15 PM
I have combined type, along with anxiety and other neurological disorders,
migraine and fibromyalgia. The combination takes a huge toll on me.

When I finished high school I was so relieved because college wasn't required.
Just being able to attend college means you suffer less than I do. I think. :scratch:

sarahsweets
06-05-15, 05:32 PM
I have a feeling this will end up turning into a p***ing contest though. I feel like everyone will feel their type of adhd is the worst because they are the ones experiencing it. If however I am forced to just pick which has it harder based on type and symptoms I would say combined can be considered more difficult. Having the inattention combined with the extreme impulsivness and emotional regulation issues sort of seems like double trouble to me. Most people who are not combined say things like "ooo I wish I had the extra energy and social skills you combineds have" Totally false. When you cant channel that energy and it interferes with your daily life and you butt in, interrupt and end up insulting someone there is nothing great about it.

Flory
06-05-15, 05:53 PM
Not to mention the idiotic comments like we have so much "energy and are so sociable and extroverted " my body physically hurts from the extreme fidgeting that's probably the worst example too for arguments sake but I can tell you before it hits a p***ing contest that being impulsive in so many areas in my life has been positively the most destructive and life endangering area of my ADHD.

I have 18/18 of both sets of symptoms in varying degrees fwiw

on a schooling front
I was expelled from high school for being violent and disruptive
I struggled through community college with special needs help for 4 years
Made it to uni and got expelled
Got fired from most every job ive had
Declared unfit and unsafe for work currently by my consultant

stef
06-05-15, 06:00 PM
It's the severity of the symptoms, in either case I think.

willow129
06-05-15, 06:31 PM
Ing3nium, I have inattentive ADHD and I really think you need to rethink what you're saying. You are generalizing. You can't know what other people are going through.

It is more accurate for you to say, "*I* have inattentive ADHD and my siblings have combined type and *I* seem to suffer more with my symptoms than *they* do."
You could then follow that I suppose with
"ARRGH I'm frustrated by this!"

;)

I hope your meds help!

Little Missy
06-05-15, 06:39 PM
Big fat mouth, fingers that type out big mouth comments, impulsive, compulsive, out of control, way too loud, far too opinionated, with a drivers license!

And there is so much more...:D

Abi
06-05-15, 06:48 PM
It's been a while since this topic has popped up.

*gets popcorn*

Donny997
06-05-15, 06:50 PM
I think both are impaired similarly, but in different ways. I see this with my brother (combined) and I (inattentive). His mobility gives him the energy and skills to succeed in his specific career. My lack of mobility allows me to learn, do, and work on things that he will just never can, because he's always on the go and won't admit to having ADD anyway.

In terms of social relationships, we both rub people the wrong ways, in different ways. He's too impulsive and aggressive. I'm too withdrawn and easy-going. So we end up with the same end result, lol.

Little Missy
06-05-15, 06:58 PM
Singing show tunes in inappropriate places, dancing in the grocery store if a good song comes on, a vast and mostly unusable knowledge on everything but what I really need to know, unafraid of what should scare me because I'm way scarier than anything confronting me, all animals love me and gravitate to me dragging their owners on the leash to get to me if I make eye contact with them, laugh too loud, cry too much, feel everything, smell everything...and I don't pay attention to anything and I don't know why but maybe I'll look it up later.

Little Missy
06-05-15, 06:59 PM
It's been a while since this topic has popped up.

*gets popcorn*

Yeah, birthday and all! Don't distract me.

acdc01
06-05-15, 07:58 PM
I agree with Donny997. It really doesn't matter if you have inattentive, combo, or hyer in my opinion. Each one has its disadvantages/advantages in different scenarios.

Hypers and combos that can't stop themselves from blurting out something offensive or in anger - can be fired on the spot at work. In relationships, impulsive speaking can be an enormous disadvantage.

willow129
06-05-15, 08:13 PM
It's been a while since this topic has popped up.

*gets popcorn*

hahaha!! :p

Twiggy
06-05-15, 08:50 PM
I just bored with life sometimes.

daveddd
06-05-15, 09:35 PM
no, the opposite actually

combined is more prone to comorbids substance abuse, and so on

most inattentive are actually combined anyway

if you're impulsive or have emotional control problems you're combined

Pilgrim
06-05-15, 09:37 PM
It's the severity of the symptoms, in either case I think.

I think this is the way you've got to look at it. When I was younger I was quite hyperactive, breaking things then getting a pummeling for it. Then as I got older I became really quiet and withdrawn. No advantage either way.

daveddd
06-05-15, 09:42 PM
I think this is the way you've got to look at it. When I was younger I was quite hyperactive, breaking things then getting a pummeling for it. Then as I got older I became really quiet and withdrawn. No advantage either way.

a very large percentage of combined have social anxiety which makes them quiet and withdrawn

its a myth that combined are outgoing and social

psychopathetic
06-05-15, 09:47 PM
In Ing3nium defense, I really don't think he in anyway meant any offense. It was a genuine question and I think he meant well enough :p.

I think of ADHD as a spectrum disorder...I think most disorders are. On one side of the spectrum is severe where you're completely and totally disabled by the disorder. On the otherside is high functioning, where, though it's still a disorder for you, it's something you can live with while maintaining a happy and healthy life style without it significantly getting in your way.
And then there's all the space between the 2 extremes where most people land. And it's not stationary...we all slide about through the spectrum. Somedays it's worse than other days for us...just depends on any number of things going on at the time.

Anyhow

(((((((Ing3nium)))))))

Sending ya a bro e-(((hug))) lol :)

Ing3nium
06-05-15, 11:58 PM
I have combined type, along with anxiety and other neurological disorders,
migraine and fibromyalgia. The combination takes a huge toll on me.

When I finished high school I was so relieved because college wasn't required.
Just being able to attend college means you suffer less than I do. I think. :scratch:

I am provided with free taxis so that I can attend university. The taxi is completely paid by the government. It helps but I can't help being demotivated.

Ing3nium
06-06-15, 12:07 AM
I have a feeling this will end up turning into a p***ing contest though. I feel like everyone will feel their type of adhd is the worst because they are the ones experiencing it. If however I am forced to just pick which has it harder based on type and symptoms I would say combined can be considered more difficult. Having the inattention combined with the extreme impulsivness and emotional regulation issues sort of seems like double trouble to me. Most people who are not combined say things like "ooo I wish I had the extra energy and social skills you combineds have" Totally false. When you cant channel that energy and it interferes with your daily life and you butt in, interrupt and end up insulting someone there is nothing great about it.

Actually, I didn't mean any offence (apologies), I have some degree of impulsion which I can't control but not clinically reverent. I don't wish any "other" kind of type whatsoever.

Although all types experience significant impairment, surely the combined types receive attention before inattentives, and many inattentives are being diagnosed at the age of 20, 30, 40, etc. But the damage is already done once the diagnosis is received.

I just happen to be one of lucky ones to realise that I'm "different" at the age of 23. :D

No offence, but as combined types are discovered much quicker and treated they would have some degree of "relief" by just even knowing that they're different, and then here comes educational point of view to tackle the 'condition' in order to conform to the society.

Ing3nium
06-06-15, 12:08 AM
a very large percentage of combined have social anxiety which makes them quiet and withdrawn

its a myth that combined are outgoing and social

I have been diagnosed with GAD but it is well controlled now though. The inattentive component is more impairing though.

acdc01
06-06-15, 12:26 AM
No offence, but as combined types are discovered much quicker and treated they would have some degree of "relief" by just even knowing that they're different, and then here comes educational point of view to tackle the 'condition' in order to conform to the society.

I have a lot of resentment toward being diagnose later in life and it is true that inattentives are more likely overall to be diagnosed later.

But there's just other things that balance this out. Like I said earlier, quick anger and extreme impulsiveness will get you in severe trouble way faster and more often than inattentiveness might depending on severity.

Personally, I get the feeling you have some resentment about the rest of your family members doing better than you and you're probably better off trying to resolve those negative feelings than thinking too hard on who has it worse combos or inattentives.

psychopathetic
06-06-15, 01:01 AM
For what it's worth...

You're all equally wacko in my heart.

:giggle: :giggle: :giggle:

:grouphug:

daveddd
06-06-15, 01:48 AM
I have a lot of resentment toward being diagnose later in life and it is true that inattentives are more likely overall to be diagnosed later.

But there's just other things that balance this out. Like I said earlier, quick anger and extreme impulsiveness will get you in severe trouble way faster and more often than inattentiveness might depending on severity.

Personally, I get the feeling you have some resentment about the rest of your family members doing better than you and you're probably better off trying to resolve those negative feelings than thinking too hard on who has it worse combos or inattentives.

yea, its worse when you have anger and impulsive issues, but we also have the same inattentiveness to deal with as well

Batman55
06-06-15, 02:06 AM
When I finished high school I was so relieved because college wasn't required.
Just being able to attend college means you suffer less than I do. I think. :scratch:

You don't just think that... you know it. And I know it too.

Batman55
06-06-15, 02:10 AM
if you're impulsive or have emotional control problems you're combined

I'm inattentive but don't have the school smarts or "big brain" that inattentives are supposed to have.

I have impulsivity and emotional control problems in the worst way, but don't have the energy or social skills of the PH or C type.

How did I end up with the worst of everything?

BellaVita
06-06-15, 02:35 AM
I'm combined type and I'm very impaired.
-Can't work
-Hardly leave my room
-Getting ready for the day uses up the majority of my spoons, I'm left exhausted and mentally drained after simply taking a shower.
-I can't drive at all - even after taking 6 weeks of driver's Ed and lots of practice. I almost run into something just about every time I drive, because I can only focus on one thing at a time(like looking for stop lights) so I don't focus on ANYTHING else (like cars around me, signs, speed limit...) Driving for me is putting my life in danger.
-Speaking of which, I literally cannot look both ways when I cross the street because I'm SO overloaded by all of the sights and sounds so I always just dash across the street hoping I don't get hit - VERY dangerous.
-I have a horrible sleeping pattern due to my energy and racing thoughts keeping me awake at night, which leaves me horribly tired and exhausted the next day, and forces me to frequently cancel plans for the next day.
-I don't have a place of my own, in fact my inattentive ADHD partner has been handling all of the bills for where I'm currently staying. (Including other things like shopping, making meals, etc)
-I can't go shopping
-I have no friends except for my partner IRL
-I can't cook because it drains me mentally and I can't focus, so I mostly eat things that are easier to make like ramen.
-Can't sit through movies for more than 15 mins without losing focus, talking, getting up and being generally distracting. (I don't go to movie theaters anymore and quit watching movies)
-I dropped out of university
-My extra energy makes me anxious causing me to get even LESS things done.

Just to name a few....

acdc01
06-06-15, 02:57 AM
-Speaking of which, I literally cannot look both ways when I cross the street because I'm SO overloaded by all of the sights and sounds so I always just dash across the street hoping I don't get hit - VERY dangerous.

Boy, that does sound dangerous BellaVita. Sorry this happens to you. Makes me scared for your life. Is there anything that can be done? It only takes one accident to die.

BellaVita
06-06-15, 03:02 AM
Boy, that does sound dangerous BellaVita. Sorry this happens to you. Makes me scared for your life. Is there anything that can be done? It only takes one accident to die.

Thanks, it is scary. I don't know, I know I need to get back on medication which helped but I can't right now because of personal reasons.

I usually just go on back roads if I ever go for a walk(I have a dog she gives me life), on the other big roads I have to cross I usually take my partner with me so he helps look both ways.

I've actually almost been hit a number of times.

psychopathetic
06-06-15, 03:20 AM
(((((((Bells)))))))

<3 <3 <3

daveddd
06-06-15, 09:46 AM
I'm inattentive but don't have the school smarts or "big brain" that inattentives are supposed to have.

I have impulsivity and emotional control problems in the worst way, but don't have the energy or social skills of the PH or C type.

How did I end up with the worst of everything?

where do you guys get this stuff, that Cs have good social skills and energy

Cs have terrible social skills , its a proven fact

can we go by actual definitions and not made up ones


if you're impulsive you're combined

sarahsweets
06-06-15, 11:01 AM
This is untrue. Combined types are combined which means they exhibit symptoms of inattentiveness and hyperactivity / impulsive. I have never had a choice as to which part is more of an issue and when. I was very distracted and inattentive as a younger child and it wasnt until high school that I really got out of hand. If us combined's could control which symptoms are worse and when it wouldnt be an impairment.

Actually, I didn't mean any offence (apologies), I have some degree of impulsion which I can't control but not clinically reverent. I don't wish any "other" kind of type whatsoever.

Although all types experience significant impairment, surely the combined types receive attention before inattentives, and many inattentives are being diagnosed at the age of 20, 30, 40, etc. But the damage is already done once the diagnosis is received.

I just happen to be one of lucky ones to realise that I'm "different" at the age of 23. :D

No offence, but as combined types are discovered much quicker and treated they would have some degree of "relief" by just even knowing that they're different, and then here comes educational point of view to tackle the 'condition' in order to conform to the society.

Lunacie
06-06-15, 11:04 AM
Ditto what daveddd wrote about social skills.

Here's a link to info about ADHD impacts our social skills:
http://www.understood.org/en/learning-attention-issues/child-learning-disabilities/add-adhd/5-ways-adhd-can-affect-your-childs-social-life

daveddd
06-06-15, 12:10 PM
if you have a mental diagnosis , you likely have poor social skills


J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 2015 Jun;54(6):479-486.e1. doi: 10.1016/j.jaac.2015.03.016. Epub 2015 Mar 30.
Examining and comparing social perception abilities across childhood-onset neurodevelopmental disorders.
Baribeau DA1, Doyle-Thomas KA2, Dupuis A3, Iaboni A2, Crosbie J3, McGinn H4, Arnold PD3, Brian J5, Kushki A6, Nicolson R7, Schachar RJ3, Soreni N8, Szatmari P9, Anagnostou E10.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
Several neurodevelopmental disorders are associated with social processing deficits. The objective of this study was to compare patterns of social perception abilities across obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), autism spectrum disorder (ASD), and control participants.
METHOD:
A total of 265 children completed the Reading the Mind in the Eyes Test-Child Version (RMET). Parents or caregivers completed established trait/symptom scales. The predicted percentage of accuracy on the RMET was compared across disorders and by item difficulty and item valence (i.e., positive/negative/neutral mental states), then analyzed for associations with trait/symptom scores.
RESULTS:
The percentage of correct RMET scores varied significantly between diagnostic groups (p < .0001). On pairwise group comparisons controlling for age and sex, children with ADHD and ASD scored lower than the other groups (p < .0001). When IQ was also controlled for in the model, participants with OCD performed better than controls (p < .001), although differences between other groups were less pronounced. Participants with ASD scored lowest on easy items. Those with ASD and ADHD scored significantly lower than other groups on items with positive valence (p < .01). Greater social communication impairment and hyperactivity/impulsivity, but not OCD traits/symptoms, were associated with lower scores on the RMET, irrespective of diagnosis.
CONCLUSION:
Social perception abilities in neurodevelopmental disorders exist along a continuum. Children with ASD have the greatest deficits, whereas children with OCD may be hypersensitive to social information. Social communication deficits and hyperactive/impulsive traits are associated with impaired social perception abilities; these findings highlight overlapping cognitive and behavioral manifestations across disorders.
Copyright 2015 American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. Published by Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.
KEYWORDS:

"Social communication deficits and hyperactive/impulsive traits are associated with impaired social perception abilities"


this stuff about adhd C is starting to seem agenda driven or something

I've never seen anything anywhere that supports or even hints at it

Donny997
06-06-15, 02:19 PM
I have a lot of resentment toward being diagnose later in life and it is true that inattentives are more likely overall to be diagnosed later.

I agree with this. I sometimes wonder how different my life would have been if I was recognized earlier in life. Literally my life would have been much better up until this point.

With that said, again there are advantages for inattentive being diagnosed later in life: For me, I learned to work harder and persevere much harder than a normal person would, and my failures and triumphs have developed character. So there is some benefit to it - and now that I'm on medication, I can put the character I developed through trials and tribulations to much better and more efficient use, without utterly draining myself.

Even still, when I think about all the other comorbid problems that have probably come as a result of going undiagnosed, if I had a choice I would have liked to have been diagnosed earlier. Maybe I could have had a girlfriend, a better idea of what my strengths and weaknesses are, and the focus and confidence to actually build practical skills so I wouldn't leave high school and realize that, unlike everyone else, I have nothing (no skills) to offer the world.

It seems to me that people with ADD seem to flounder more than most, not knowing where they fit in. I've realized that this is not a normal state to be in, as most people generally recognize what they're good at early on and work on that. I think being diagnosed and told you have ADD gives you the self-awareness early on to follow that same path of developing what you're good at.

daveddd
06-06-15, 02:43 PM
people with ADHDc who internalize their symptoms or have high intelligence are just as likely to get a late dx

due to our prehistoric mental health system

Donny997
06-06-15, 03:51 PM
due to our prehistoric mental health system

LOL isn't this the truth? I remember when I was first diagnosed with depression and insisted on seeing a counsellor, I would never have any traumatic experience to talk about, but would talk about little frustrations like "being overwhelmingly tired throughout the day," "Being called on in class and never being prepared even though I know I should be," - and I'd get blank stares, and responses like "there's nothing wrong with you," and "Just try to be more prepared."

Greyhound1
06-06-15, 03:55 PM
I think the concept of who suffers more is futile and I am inattentive.

We are all individuals first and foremost and that is how we shall suffer.

daveddd
06-06-15, 04:39 PM
its all the same thing anyway, its well accepted that adhd is a disorder of emotional regulation

the presentation is just how you cope (genetics , learned from parents, other)


all just dimensional symptoms

ADHD symptomatology is best conceptualized as a spectrum: a dimensional versus unitary approach to diagnosis.
Heidbreder R1.
Author information
Abstract
The aim of this paper is to build a case for the utility of conceptualizing ADHD, not as a unitary disorder that contains several subtypes, but rather as a marker of impairment in attention and/or impulsivity that can be used to identify one of several disorders belonging to a spectrum. The literature will be reviewed to provide an overview of what is known about ADHD in terms of heterogeneity in symptomatology, neuropsychology, neurobiology, as well as comorbidity with other diseases and treatment options. The data from these areas of research will be critically analyzed to support the construct of a spectrum of disorders that can capture the great variability that exists between individuals with ADHD and can discriminate between separate disorders that manifest similar symptoms. The symptoms associated with ADHD can be viewed as dimensional markers that point to a spectrum of related disorders that have as part of their characteristics impairments of attention and impulsivity. The spectrum can accommodate symmetrically and asymmetrically comorbid psychiatric disorders associated with ADHD as well as the wide heterogeneity known to be a part of the ADHD disorder. Individuals presenting with impairments associated with ADHD should be treated as having a positive marker for a spectrum disorder that has as part of its characteristics impairments of attention and/or impulsivity. The identification of impairment in attention and/or impulsivity should be a starting point for further testing rather than being an endpoint of diagnosis that results in pharmacological treatment that may or may not be the optimal therapy. Rather than continuing to attribute a large amount of heterogeneity in symptom presentation as well as a high degree of symmetric and asymmetric comorbidity to a single disorder, clinical evaluation should turn to the diagnosis of the type of attentional deficit and/or impulsivity an individual has in order to colocate the individual's disorder on a spectrum that captures the heterogeneity in symptomatology, the symmetrical and asymmetrical comorbidity, as well as subthreshold presentation and other variants often worked into the disorder of ADHD. The spectrum model can accommodate not only the psychophysiological profiles of patients, but is also consistent with what is known about the functional heterogeneity of the prefrontal cortex as well as the construct that cognitive processes are supported by overlapping and collaborative networks.

meadd823
06-06-15, 06:50 PM
You do know the difference between moderate and severe pain?

The difference between them depends upon whether you are feeling it or I am. I find other people's pain so much easier to live with than my own. .....

Fortune
06-06-15, 06:50 PM
I don't know what it's like now but there have been quite a few combined type members who were diagnosed later in life. Being ADHD-C does not always mean getting spotted earlier.

Ing3nium
06-06-15, 07:15 PM
I'm inattentive but don't have the school smarts or "big brain" that inattentives are supposed to have.

I have impulsivity and emotional control problems in the worst way, but don't have the energy or social skills of the PH or C type.

How did I end up with the worst of everything?

What makes you think inattentives usually/supposed to have a 'big brain'?

Skyf@ll
06-06-15, 07:27 PM
I have always been inattentive most of my life until maybe the last 5-10 years (can’t pin-point exactly)
I remember when I was much younger it was very hard to socialize with people, but luckily enough I was taken under the wing of a group every now then through life. I got the odd comment….you don't speak much lol but that's as harsh as it got. I think it was because I was in deep thought half the time.
Fast-forward till present day, I can’t bloody shut up, I would go on and on if I could. I want to be constantly on the go, to the point of exhaustion.
I still definitely have concentration issues but the hyperactive and impulsive side of me seems to be the biggest issue I have just now. (which I've came to realize more over the last few days btw)

Batman55
06-07-15, 03:25 AM
What makes you think inattentives usually/supposed to have a 'big brain'?

It seems to have been implied in one post in this thread contrasting the two types, can't remember which at the moment.

I've seen some other implications before, also, along the lines of inattentive -> introversion -> book smarts, etc.

I wish that applied to me because I'm both completely introverted and technically ADD-I (although I do have significant impulsivity so perhaps I'm actually type C)

daveddd
06-07-15, 11:44 AM
It seems to have been implied in one post in this thread contrasting the two types, can't remember which at the moment.

I've seen some other implications before, also, along the lines of inattentive -> introversion -> book smarts, etc.

I wish that applied to me because I'm both completely introverted and technically ADD-I (although I do have significant impulsivity so perhaps I'm actually type C)

i guess i see the confusion

ADD I nor c represent intro or extraversion

I stands for inattention , attention is not the same as intro version

hyperactivity and impulsivity is the other half, most if not all adhders with impulsiveness and /or hyperactivity also have inattentiveness

think of the hyperactivity as restlessness , not extroversion

fragile x that you mentioned before has extreme restlessness (hyperactivity) inattentiveness and social anxiety



anyone with adhd can be introverted , most have some type of social anxiety

almost all have some type of interpersonal relatedness problems

stef
06-07-15, 01:05 PM
Also its going to depend on your sistuation, if you come from a family who feels that academic success is really important, and you struggle terribly from fidgeting in a classroom setting, it would be especially difficult. or if you were inattentive and need lots of down time and your inlaws love big, noisy family parties, etc.

daveddd
06-07-15, 02:43 PM
I hate big noisy family parties. I think thats more of a social anxiety. Stimulation. Thing though

Common in both as well

Flory
06-07-15, 05:01 PM
It's been a while since this topic has popped up.

*gets popcorn*

If only ginnie were still here she could weigh in xx

daveddd
06-07-15, 05:26 PM
I'm inattentive but don't have the school smarts or "big brain" that inattentives are supposed to have.

I have impulsivity and emotional control problems in the worst way, but don't have the energy or social skills of the PH or C type.

How did I end up with the worst of everything?



you are definitely ADHD combined type

did you self dx PI or go to a doctor not familiar with adhd ?

Batman55
06-08-15, 01:28 AM
you are definitely ADHD combined type

did you self dx PI or go to a doctor not familiar with adhd ?

I know you're not accusing me of this, but to set the record straight: my ADD isn't a self-dx. As some may have noticed, years ago when I first came to this forum I put "informal diagnosis" on my profile page, never changed it. The reason I wrote that there was because I did not seek help from a therapist for ADD or get "ADD testing" done.. there wasn't a "formal" dx like many of you had, I'm guessing. It was discovered in the course of therapy. I actually went to that therapist initially because of addiction problems.

I haven't been to that shrink in several years, I do still see a psychiatrist once in a while though. But if I recall right it was discussed as being an "attention" problem or "ADD," I don't recall him specifying a specific category. I guess when I came here *I* felt I fit more into the "PI" category: I never had hyperactivity or extreme restlessness as an adult, despite some symptoms of it occasionally.

BellaVita
06-08-15, 03:04 AM
If only ginnie were still here she could weigh in xx

Yesssssssss

Flory
06-08-15, 08:19 AM
Yesssssssss

She was a champion rep for us "bad kid" C types

Miss her loads

daveddd
06-08-15, 08:38 AM
I know you're not accusing me of this, but to set the record straight: my ADD isn't a self-dx. As some may have noticed, years ago when I first came to this forum I put "informal diagnosis" on my profile page, never changed it. The reason I wrote that there was because I did not seek help from a therapist for ADD or get "ADD testing" done.. there wasn't a "formal" dx like many of you had, I'm guessing. It was discovered in the course of therapy. I actually went to that therapist initially because of addiction problems.

I haven't been to that shrink in several years, I do still see a psychiatrist once in a while though. But if I recall right it was discussed as being an "attention" problem or "ADD," I don't recall him specifying a specific category. I guess when I came here *I* felt I fit more into the "PI" category: I never had hyperactivity or extreme restlessness as an adult, despite some symptoms of it occasionally.


You said you were really impulsive. With addiction c would make sense

Fuzzy12
06-08-15, 08:49 AM
I know you're not accusing me of this, but to set the record straight: my ADD isn't a self-dx. As some may have noticed, years ago when I first came to this forum I put "informal diagnosis" on my profile page, never changed it. The reason I wrote that there was because I did not seek help from a therapist for ADD or get "ADD testing" done.. there wasn't a "formal" dx like many of you had, I'm guessing. It was discovered in the course of therapy. I actually went to that therapist initially because of addiction problems.

I haven't been to that shrink in several years, I do still see a psychiatrist once in a while though. But if I recall right it was discussed as being an "attention" problem or "ADD," I don't recall him specifying a specific category. I guess when I came here *I* felt I fit more into the "PI" category: I never had hyperactivity or extreme restlessness as an adult, despite some symptoms of it occasionally.

I've never been hyperactive (on the contrary, as a kid I used to be accused all the time as a couch potato). I'm still diagnosed as combined mainly because of impulse control issues and because I'm quite restless in general though personally, I'd think that's more mentally though I do fidget a lot. I guess that a lot of people who consider themselves to be primarily inattentive are actually combined. The combined types I guess have the same problems with focus and attention but in addition also struggle with impulsiveness/hyperactivity.

I think, in the UK, at least, the different categories aren't really given that much importance to. Besides, they all suck. I don't think, it's possible to say that as a rule PI or C suffer more but what makes more of a difference is the severity of each symptom, the presence or absence of support structures or mitigating factors to help you deal with particular symptoms and the presence of co-morbids.

Also, and this is just conjecture, based purely on my own experiences, I think, depression can make combined types look more inattentive than typically combined. Since my depression has lifted I'm substantially more impulsive and even hyperactive. And being hyperactive doesn't mean that you have more energy. In fact, for me, the more tired I am, the more hyperactive I become. If I'm really tired I can't control the restlessness anymore. I either go to bed or move in completely useless, non-value adding ways and just tire myself out more and more. What we'd all like to have, I guess, is focused, purposeful energy to do things we need or want to do. For me, being hyperactive just means I run around more like a confused, headless chicken without getting anything done whereas previously when I was depressed, I'd lie in bed sad and miserable without getting anything done.

Fortune
06-08-15, 07:44 PM
I was diagnosed as inattentive primarily because the psych I saw ignored my impulsiveness, restlessness, etc.

Which diagnosis I have is not that important to me as long as I have a diagnosis, though. Also, I don't think ADHD-PI has it worse than ADHD-C.

Batman55
06-09-15, 12:25 AM
You said you were really impulsive. With addiction c would make sense

Believe me I think that makes perfect sense.

It's just my impulsivity/restlessness is not usually the social kind. Shyness/anxiety prevents that from coming out. I guess that's why my ADD was missed entirely until I was 25. My public demeanor is passive and avoidant, so most folks would never think I had ADD unless they really, really knew me.

But impulsivity touches everything else. I have serious difficulty controlling temptations and vices, my emotions are a wreck, etc.

finallyfound10
06-09-15, 01:30 AM
There are no winners in this game. On their own they are bad for their own reasons but most of us also have comorbids that add their own issues to be dealt with in addition to the type of ADHD we have.

daveddd
06-09-15, 10:28 AM
Believe me I think that makes perfect sense.

It's just my impulsivity/restlessness is not usually the social kind. Shyness/anxiety prevents that from coming out. I guess that's why my ADD was missed entirely until I was 25. My public demeanor is passive and avoidant, so most folks would never think I had ADD unless they really, really knew me.

But impulsivity touches everything else. I have serious difficulty controlling temptations and vices, my emotions are a wreck, etc.

Thats what i meant

Im the same

Socially. I have a flat affect. Probably a bit suspicius looking. Monotone. I dont express emotion

But im still very impulsive and have terrible emotion control. When im not overcontroling them in public. Although overcontrol is a form of emotion dysregulation too

Actually i think us overcontrolers suffer more then the undercontrolers:cool:

willow129
06-09-15, 11:07 AM
So, something I've been wanting to write about on this thread since I saw it open up.

As a teacher the differences I see in the ... hmm ... responses to hyperactive ADHD and inattentive ADHD in schools:

With hyperactive ADHD, those kids tend to take up a lot of teachers' energy. I just feel like I have to keep an eye on those kids ALL the time, the corner of my eye, ALWAYS. Make sure they're safe, make sure they're interacting with others ok, make sure they're hearing my directions, make sure they're not doing something inappropriate....the list goes on. If those kids don't like my class it can be a nightmare for me. But I do have one girl who LOVES the performing arts but is supersuperSUPER hyper. One of the most extreme cases in our school, I think, but because she really likes school she isn't worried about as much (she is on meds also, they help her a lot.) But when she's off meds...WOW. She gets a bossy streak!!! And like, ok it's AWESOME you're excited about the lesson but you're not the only kid in here! Give others a turn to have ideas lol. So there can be that too, even when they're enjoying your class, a lot of energy spent on how to include them and give them an avenue for their energy, but also give the rest of the kids air time as well. And I think she sees this in herself and just **shrug** can't control it. It's hard! And we all know there are teachers who struggle with these kids and are frustrated by them. And, I think, understandably, because they can be really really difficult to teach. But this struggle between the adult and student can cause long lasting emotional damage with the student, I think.

I find most of teacher discussion, advice, worry, is spent on the ones who show more hyperactive symptoms. And that includes me. There are 2 boys right now I am super worried how they're going to do when they leave this school. We talk about them a lot.

Now, inattentive: I think teachers do not spend a lot of thought on these kids or realize there's a problem brewing. As I get to know kids, and with all I've learned about ADHD, I've started to form some suspicions about ADHD-inattentive with a couple of students. I don't hear about them having any diagnosis (I'm not necessarily told about it though, like my super hyper girl up there, she's the one who told me about her ADHD, got no paperwork for her.) Those kids are often referred to as being "out to lunch" by teachers, with a shrug. To those who don't really know any better, it really does come off like those kids just don't care about much. And HONESTLY I would think so too, that is often how they come across, without meaning too. And I know I have felt that way about some kids and later realized there's probably some inattentive going on there because now I've done more reading, and it isn't really normal/healthy for a kid to be that way. BUT, right now, that is accepted in our schools. There isn't enough information about ADHD for most adults to recognize inattentive when they see it. So, they're not stirring up trouble in the moment, they are generally approached with shrugs and ok let's move on now. My suspicion is the people who could do something don't recognize there's a problem - but again I'm not in special ed and am not informed of everything that goes on in special ed, unless it's felt that I need to know, so there's a lot I probably don't know.

So, I think there are problems associated with both types in school, essentially, and I'm not sure that one is worse than the other, but I do wish we could have more recognition of inattentive ADHD...

Cotter67
06-09-15, 11:56 AM
Im diagnosed with the inattentive type, but I struggle with emotions, angry outbursts, mood swings etc, I also have anxiety as well, were all different and are feeling it in different ways. im very socially anxious and im quite withdrawn and isolated from friends. I know some with adhd hyperactive type, and sometimes I do wish I had that type because hes not anxious, has lots of friends and socialises all the time, he seems confident in himself. where as im the opposite really, don't say much, when in groups my mind wanders and im not really involved, people always ask me why im so quiet, its because my mind is elsewhere.without stimulant meds I am so lethargic, lie in bed procrastinating all day and just feel like I have no energy. im not sure whether they help with my attention though I still find it hard to listen to someone and follow conversations, I still wonder about aspergers...

Lunacie
06-09-15, 12:01 PM
Im diagnosed with the inattentive type, but I struggle with emotions, angry outbursts, mood swings etc, I also have anxiety as well, were all different and are feeling it in different ways. im very socially anxious and im quite withdrawn and isolated from friends. I know some with adhd hyperactive type, and sometimes I do wish I had that type because hes not anxious, has lots of friends and socialises all the time, he seems confident in himself. where as im the opposite really, don't say much, when in groups my mind wanders and im not really involved, people always ask me why im so quiet, its because my mind is elsewhere.without stimulant meds I am so lethargic, lie in bed procrastinating all day and just feel like I have no energy. im not sure whether they help with my attention though I still find it hard to listen to someone and follow conversations, I still wonder about aspergers...

Those with Combined type can also have anxiety and depression alongside.
Not everyone will have the same combination of symptoms.

I'm not actually diagnosed, but believe I'm borderline Autism spectrum too.
Autism and Asperger's are all over my mother's side of the family.

I have one granddaughter with ADHD, anxiety and depression
and one granddaughter with Autism, anxiety and possible ADHD.

Cotter67
06-09-15, 12:03 PM
Thats what i meant

Im the same

Socially. I have a flat affect. Probably a bit suspicius looking. Monotone. I dont express emotion

But im still very impulsive and have terrible emotion control. When im not overcontroling them in public. Although overcontrol is a form of emotion dysregulation too

Actually i think us overcontrolers suffer more then the undercontrolers:cool:

that's what im like. socialising feels like a chore too me because of the anxiety I feel, along with trying hard not to space out and be able to follow conversations. im very sensitive as well don't react well to criticism, I take things to heart. I also get very frustrated and angry quite easily

Cotter67
06-09-15, 12:24 PM
Those with Combined type can also have anxiety and depression alongside.
Not everyone will have the same combination of symptoms.

I'm not actually diagnosed, but believe I'm borderline Autism spectrum too.
Autism and Asperger's are all over my mother's side of the family.

I have one granddaughter with ADHD, anxiety and depression
and one granddaughter with Autism, anxiety and possible ADHD.

I meant to say I know someone personally with adhd hyperactive type, wasn't meaning to generalise, but hes active has a girlfriend can drive etc, I cant even imagine being able to drive, my anxiety would be through the roof and my lack of concentration would be very dangerous imo. I long to be accepted but on the odd occasion I do socialise im so withdrawn and anxious, i was only diagnosed last year at 24, so before that i was put on ssri's etc because they just thought i was depressed, never really felt they done anything for me. i used to use alcohol in social situations because i was so anxious but that mixed with anti depressants caused my behaviour to spiral out of control, blacking out, picking fights with friends, getting barred from bars clubs etc. i was suspended from both primary school and high school for angry outburst at teachers etc ive always had really low self esteem as well. maybe i have combined type i don't know, but ive read the innatentive type get missed because they didn't show behavioural problems, that certainly wasn't the case with me. i would stun teachers teachers with my behaviour, if shouted at loudly or criticised i would kick chair tables etc, swear at them and i didn't feel like i could control what i was saying. i still have anger i don't feel like i can control.

Cotter67
06-09-15, 12:28 PM
i need some therapy along with the dex i think, right now when i go to the p doc, all hes interested in is the medication, i need behavioural therapy or something.

Cotter67
06-09-15, 12:43 PM
i don't agree with the op its not fair to say one type suffers more imo.

Batman55
06-14-15, 01:49 AM
For Willow, try and "make a stand" please, if you can.

I was one of those "out to lunch" types who was just called "very shy, daydreamer, forgetful" or whatever. In fact I had terrible ADD but nobody could identify it.

If my ADD had been properly identified at the right time, instead of at 25 (and by this time I was thoroughly self-loathing and developed serious addiction problems)... maybe I would've done a little better for myself.

I don't want anyone else to turn out like me. I'm an absolute disaster. And I'm not kidding.

sarahsweets
06-18-15, 04:35 AM
I know you feel like a disaster but I dont think so from my perspective.

For Willow, try and "make a stand" please, if you can.

I was one of those "out to lunch" types who was just called "very shy, daydreamer, forgetful" or whatever. In fact I had terrible ADD but nobody could identify it.

If my ADD had been properly identified at the right time, instead of at 25 (and by this time I was thoroughly self-loathing and developed serious addiction problems)... maybe I would've done a little better for myself.

I don't want anyone else to turn out like me. I'm an absolute disaster. And I'm not kidding.

Batman55
06-19-15, 12:27 AM
I know you feel like a disaster but I dont think so from my perspective.

Thank you. But then.. if you really knew me :p

sarahsweets
06-19-15, 04:19 AM
Thank you. But then.. if you really knew me :p

well hell then, quick! Call FEMA!

Lizzie80
06-19-15, 12:48 PM
I have a lot of resentment toward being diagnose later in life and it is true that inattentives are more likely overall to be diagnosed later.

But there's just other things that balance this out. Like I said earlier, quick anger and extreme impulsiveness will get you in severe trouble way faster and more often than inattentiveness might depending on severity.

Personally, I get the feeling you have some resentment about the rest of your family members doing better than you and you're probably better off trying to resolve those negative feelings than thinking too hard on who has it worse combos or inattentives.

I think many of us not diagnosed until adulthood (and receiving treatment) feel resentment at times for that.

However, I hear from people diagnosed as young kids that they have always been medicated, they don't know themselves off of medication, they feel dependent upon it, they feel like it defines them, they doubt whether they created their successes in life or if it was medication creating their success...they have a host of their own issues. Much of what I think they bring up are legitimate concerns and questions.

Not that medication created their success (sorry, I don't believe that anyone can automatically achieve great things on ANY medication for years on end; that takes discipline and concern unrelated to any drug), but I do understand that they have no frame of reference for who they are without medication. I often use "who I used to be (unmedicated)" as a frame of reference; they don't get to do that.

We each have had ways in life where we got screwed. It's easy to get PO'ed over that, but we have to learn how to cope with whatever we've got and be determined to make our own positive contribution to the world in whatever way we can, whenever we can.

I have the Inattentive type (along with fibromyalgia and anxiety disorder), so I understand at least a small part of the frustration you're feeling. Each of us lives our own heavens and hells. I didn't start college until the age of 32. I'm 35 today and I'm easily fifteen years behind where I ought to be in life. It irks me to no end, and this is not an economy forgiving to anyone who's running late like that! However, I know as much as I can mourn or complain (and I do, believe me!), I have to force myself to look and see how much I have. How much I can do each day, then do those things.

I'm looking at a commercial right this second about the Wounded Warrior Project. I did not agree with going into the wars, I might add, and still don't. But I look at people forced to live without a leg and an arm, with burns, with PTSD, and I feel immense compassion for them. Comparatively, I have it pretty darn good. I'm saying keep things in perspective. The best way to get over our own pain sometimes is to reach out and try to relieve someone else's pain for a bit. I know I may get flamed for saying that, but this isn't a beatdown or anything. It works for me sometimes.

Lunacie
06-19-15, 04:41 PM
I think we can address our issues realistically while still having compassion for others.

It's not a contest as to who has it worst. Life has a way of screwing us all, eh?

roflwaffle
06-20-15, 02:13 AM
The problem with types is that there are likely other disorders hanging around, and their effects aren't always additive. For example I think I have SCT, and the social anxiety/excessive guilt countered the difficulties I had with attention in some situations.

This was especially clear after I took Lexapro/Wellbutrin for what's likely my SCT/Hypersomnia. My anxiety dropped off the map and I could make due with a normal amount of sleep, but I stopped giving as much of a shiz at work (openly browse the net, etc...) because I wasn't worried about the consequences or about disappointing people.

daveddd
06-20-15, 01:55 PM
all these categories make my head spin

i wonder if the excessive amount of categories actually make psychology less effective as a whole

Little Missy
06-20-15, 03:16 PM
I really dislike , "find the answer that fits the best." :scratch:

daveddd
06-20-15, 03:54 PM
I really dislike , "find the answer that fits the best." :scratch:

doesn't make sense to me

back in the day for example, millon had an avoidant type

in born issue, leads to social anxiety, emotion blocking, innatentative, impulsiveness, obsessiveness, irritability , trouble controlling anger

fits perfect

but now i have 15 different separate diseases

Donny997
06-21-15, 02:54 PM
doesn't make sense to me

back in the day for example, millon had an avoidant type

in born issue, leads to social anxiety, emotion blocking, innatentative, impulsiveness, obsessiveness, irritability , trouble controlling anger

fits perfect

but now i have 15 different separate diseases

Just because you may have an avoidant "style" doesn't mean it's a disease or personality disorder, or even a "neurotic character." With that said, avoidant personality disorder is very rare. People with some shyness and social anxiety can see themselves in the description, but what avoidant personality really is, at its core, is an attachment problem. Are you unable to form warm attachments/ relationships with friends, lovers, family? The problem with just looking at the DSM descriptions is that it only focuses on just that: external descriptions. What is more telling is the etiolgy of a person. If you had trouble forming a normal attachment with your mother very early on in your infancy, or were chronically unable to attach appropriately to both parents (not because of you but because of their own problems), then this would lead to an avoidant organization.

The problem with only looking at external behaviour, is that there are many reasons for it, i.e. many reasons for "avoiding." Do you avoid because you are actually dependent personality with a poor identity sense and feel like when you are around others you constantly mold yourself to them, and over time this has irritated you? Do you avoid because you have an organic problem, such as ADD or low intelligence, combined with some narcissistic features, that makes you irritated when you're around others because your organic difficulties then become so obvious in comparison to others, i.e. you feel "stupid" and this wounds your ego? Do you avoid because you're depressed and you don't want people to see you like this? Etc. etc.

It's important to remember that avoidants don't avoid out of choice, they really do have a fundamental difficult attaching to others. They want to have relationships with people and a normal social life, but it's quite alien to them.

I found myself in the same boat at one point and have done a ton of research so I thought I'd share my thoughts to see if it helps clarify :). It's never fun walking around thinking you have 15 diseases, lol.

daveddd
06-23-15, 08:27 PM
Just because you may have an avoidant "style" doesn't mean it's a disease or personality disorder, or even a "neurotic character." With that said, avoidant personality disorder is very rare. People with some shyness and social anxiety can see themselves in the description, but what avoidant personality really is, at its core, is an attachment problem. Are you unable to form warm attachments/ relationships with friends, lovers, family? The problem with just looking at the DSM descriptions is that it only focuses on just that: external descriptions. What is more telling is the etiolgy of a person. If you had trouble forming a normal attachment with your mother very early on in your infancy, or were chronically unable to attach appropriately to both parents (not because of you but because of their own problems), then this would lead to an avoidant organization.

The problem with only looking at external behaviour, is that there are many reasons for it, i.e. many reasons for "avoiding." Do you avoid because you are actually dependent personality with a poor identity sense and feel like when you are around others you constantly mold yourself to them, and over time this has irritated you? Do you avoid because you have an organic problem, such as ADD or low intelligence, combined with some narcissistic features, that makes you irritated when you're around others because your organic difficulties then become so obvious in comparison to others, i.e. you feel "stupid" and this wounds your ego? Do you avoid because you're depressed and you don't want people to see you like this? Etc. etc.

It's important to remember that avoidants don't avoid out of choice, they really do have a fundamental difficult attaching to others. They want to have relationships with people and a normal social life, but it's quite alien to them.

I found myself in the same boat at one point and have done a ton of research so I thought I'd share my thoughts to see if it helps clarify :). It's never fun walking around thinking you have 15 diseases, lol.

thanks


but I'm much better versed on avoidant PD then the DSM

i really don't like the DSM

avoidant attachment is actually not thought to be strictly an issue of early attachment (see millon), nothing is

this is actually part of the separate "disease " problem

Donny997
06-24-15, 03:55 PM
thanks


but I'm much better versed on avoidant PD then the DSM

i really don't like the DSM

avoidant attachment is actually not thought to be strictly an issue of early attachment (see millon), nothing is

this is actually part of the separate "disease " problem

True.. you could have any personality disorder/ style with atypical etiology.

I'm just saying... I once sought an avoidant diagnosis, but my therapist, who's written 5 books on personality disorders, told me my "behaviour" is avoidant, but that I don't avoid attachments, intimacy, emotions, self-insight, etc. Of course I have avoidant traits because I have social anxiety, but I also have narcissistic traits, histrionic traits, (as does everyone) etc. - doesn't mean my core personality is one of those.

daveddd
06-24-15, 08:23 PM
True.. you could have any personality disorder/ style with atypical etiology.

I'm just saying... I once sought an avoidant diagnosis, but my therapist, who's written 5 books on personality disorders, told me my "behaviour" is avoidant, but that I don't avoid attachments, intimacy, emotions, self-insight, etc. Of course I have avoidant traits because I have social anxiety, but I also have narcissistic traits, histrionic traits, (as does everyone) etc. - doesn't mean my core personality is one of those.

i believe these are all just overlapping traits , some so extreme to be classified as a disorder

the most recognized person on PDs is millon, and his biosocial model

avoidant being someone born with an extreme fear sensitivity through any number of causes (nowadays this would likely get a ADHD or aspergers dx) who has been socially humiliated through mid to late childhood

like a complex PTSD

this fits perfect for me, flashbacks and everything

Donny997
06-24-15, 09:20 PM
i believe these are all just overlapping traits , some so extreme to be classified as a disorder

the most recognized person on PDs is millon, and his biosocial model

avoidant being someone born with an extreme fear sensitivity through any number of causes (nowadays this would likely get a ADHD or aspergers dx) who has been socially humiliated through mid to late childhood

like a complex PTSD

this fits perfect for me, flashbacks and everything

Sometimes it's hard to know which traits are genetic and which are shaped through development. From my understanding though, if all the early developmental phases are passed through with minimal damage, that kind of creates a buffer for later-life traumas. So the later traumas might appear more as surface-level symptoms than as core level personality problems. Symptoms can always be cured, core personality types can only be modified.

On a side note.. I think a good and less pathologizing way to look at the personality disorders/ issues, is to see them as existential issues which we all, to some degree, need to work through and could always improve on. So with schizoid/ avoidants, one could always work toward improved social comfort. With dependent, one could always become more autonomous, competent, and self-assertive. With narcissistic issues, self-esteem and authenticity could be improved, etc.

daveddd
06-24-15, 09:28 PM
for sure, being that a single biological marker doesn't exist in the field of psychology

i use millons theory based on his influence on the DSM, avoidant personality disorder wouldn't exist without him, while he also admits that PDs likely don't have a defining line

his theory that originated in the 60s is pretty much what is taking over current psychology, its all going back to biosocial

getting info on me as a baby and changes i made at different ages sure support his stuff well though

daveddd
06-24-15, 09:45 PM
Sometimes it's hard to know which traits are genetic and which are shaped through development. From my understanding though, if all the early developmental phases are passed through with minimal damage, that kind of creates a buffer for later-life traumas. So the later traumas might appear more as surface-level symptoms than as core level personality problems. Symptoms can always be cured, core personality types can only be modified.

On a side note.. I think a good and less pathologizing way to look at the personality disorders/ issues, is to see them as existential issues which we all, to some degree, need to work through and could always improve on. So with schizoid/ avoidants, one could always work toward improved social comfort. With dependent, one could always become more autonomous, competent, and self-assertive. With narcissistic issues, self-esteem and authenticity could be improved, etc.

thats true, an issue with avoidant /schizoid traits I've personally run into though, is the whatever combination of biological environmental traits it may be, is alexythymic /dissociative states , it hinders any progress i move towards

Lizzie80
06-24-15, 09:49 PM
So, something I've been wanting to write about on this thread since I saw it open up.

As a teacher the differences I see in the ... hmm ... responses to hyperactive ADHD and inattentive ADHD in schools:

With hyperactive ADHD, those kids tend to take up a lot of teachers' energy. I just feel like I have to keep an eye on those kids ALL the time, the corner of my eye, ALWAYS. Make sure they're safe, make sure they're interacting with others ok, make sure they're hearing my directions, make sure they're not doing something inappropriate....the list goes on. If those kids don't like my class it can be a nightmare for me. But I do have one girl who LOVES the performing arts but is supersuperSUPER hyper. One of the most extreme cases in our school, I think, but because she really likes school she isn't worried about as much (she is on meds also, they help her a lot.) But when she's off meds...WOW. She gets a bossy streak!!! And like, ok it's AWESOME you're excited about the lesson but you're not the only kid in here! Give others a turn to have ideas lol. So there can be that too, even when they're enjoying your class, a lot of energy spent on how to include them and give them an avenue for their energy, but also give the rest of the kids air time as well. And I think she sees this in herself and just **shrug** can't control it. It's hard! And we all know there are teachers who struggle with these kids and are frustrated by them. And, I think, understandably, because they can be really really difficult to teach. But this struggle between the adult and student can cause long lasting emotional damage with the student, I think.

I find most of teacher discussion, advice, worry, is spent on the ones who show more hyperactive symptoms. And that includes me. There are 2 boys right now I am super worried how they're going to do when they leave this school. We talk about them a lot.

Now, inattentive: I think teachers do not spend a lot of thought on these kids or realize there's a problem brewing. As I get to know kids, and with all I've learned about ADHD, I've started to form some suspicions about ADHD-inattentive with a couple of students. I don't hear about them having any diagnosis (I'm not necessarily told about it though, like my super hyper girl up there, she's the one who told me about her ADHD, got no paperwork for her.) Those kids are often referred to as being "out to lunch" by teachers, with a shrug. To those who don't really know any better, it really does come off like those kids just don't care about much. And HONESTLY I would think so too, that is often how they come across, without meaning too. And I know I have felt that way about some kids and later realized there's probably some inattentive going on there because now I've done more reading, and it isn't really normal/healthy for a kid to be that way. BUT, right now, that is accepted in our schools. There isn't enough information about ADHD for most adults to recognize inattentive when they see it. So, they're not stirring up trouble in the moment, they are generally approached with shrugs and ok let's move on now. My suspicion is the people who could do something don't recognize there's a problem - but again I'm not in special ed and am not informed of everything that goes on in special ed, unless it's felt that I need to know, so there's a lot I probably don't know.

So, I think there are problems associated with both types in school, essentially, and I'm not sure that one is worse than the other, but I do wish we could have more recognition of inattentive ADHD...

I can only speak for myself, of course. I was one of the "overlooked" ADD-Inattentive, although since I got good grades without much effort until about fifth grade, I suppose I can understand it. I don't know if this is just a "me" thing, or if other Inattentives had this issue, but I am a love-me-or-hate-me kind of person. Not in any way on purpose, and not because I want people to hate me, but there is very little middle ground from the opinion of people who know me personally.

I had a couple of teachers who thought I was brilliant, but was also a kid who just did not fit in with the small-town, closed-minded atmosphere of our school. I was an outsider, the school knew it, I knew it. Therefore, I was disinterested in their whole lot, and tuned out into my own little world. But I absorbed everything they taught without even trying to. I'm not a genius, I think I was simply a good sponge, like many kids are at a really young age. I can tell you what my mind was on- my future singing and acting career. I can relate to your young students so well, Willow. I can tell you so little about the day-to-day events of my school years. They are dim at best. But the dreams I had about what I'd achieve someday, the hours of singing and acting I practiced at home alone, the endless number of movies I saw, dancing I tried to emulate? That's as vivid as anything which just happened today to me. I know that's not "normal", but it was my normal. I didn't realize until much later in life that it wasn't good for me not to be in the present. Well, it wasn't good for my success in life...

Anyway, other teachers thought I was either a dunce or a problem child. In kindergarten, I was put in the "slow children" group. I swear to God, we had the "bright students", which were called the "apples"; the slow students were the "ducks". And yes, they referred to us as either bright or slow without hesitation publicly, LOL. The principal stopped by one day, and I have no idea even now what happened, but one day I was a duck...the next, an apple. :scratch: I probably WAS a duck intellectually, but I'd still love to know what I said or did to charm the kindly principal that day into believing I was worthy of apple life. :D

Anyway, first grade- loved me. Second grade- despised me, said I was lazy and had self-esteem issues. (She might have hated me because I slipped up, talked like my mom in class, and called her the b-word. Oops.) I vaguely remember doing homework once or twice that whole year. Mom said, "This is BS, you spent the whole day in school, and I don't come home from 12 hours in the Federal Government to play teacher at 8 p.m. every night." That was it for the homework until...college? Third grade- Teacher hated the 2nd grade teacher with a passion long before I came along; recommended me for Gifted and Talented program; somehow he arm-wrestled them into testing my IQ, which came out at 140. The man must have had it rigged, no way in hell do I have that level of intelligence, I'm probably 120 on a REALLY sharp day. But God love him. Fourth grade- Teacher loved me, I actually stayed in her home when my single mother had no choice but to go on several business trips in one school year. I worked very hard that year, as I recall. Fifth grade- All the teachers hated me with a passion. Puberty started that year and what little discipline or decorum I previously possessed disappeared. Any year beyond that, teachers hated me, loved me, or didn't recognize me at all because I played hooky during their classes. As you can imagine, I am not the greatest success story in the world.

In short, I had to either really love the subject being taught, or I had to be very devoted to the teacher themselves (meaning that I did not want to let them down), in order to perform well. If neither of those requirements was fulfilled, I could get by on sheer memorization skills, but I was not well-liked. And I was (rightly) considered very lazy in those cases. I do not know if this applies to all Inattentives, but many that I know are all-or-nothing types, and we rely heavily on emotion to carry us through. If the emotion is gone, so are we, because that is a gigantic part of our motivation. Underneath all of that, even though I was tremendously checked out and somewhat rebellious, a deep desire to be like everyone else. To be consistent and steady, even if it meant being dull or ordinary (which is how I saw the life of an NT, right or wrong). Ultimately, the dullness and the ordinary always became death by a thousand knives, and it would have killed me not to check out of those situations mentally. I don't blame any teacher I ever had for any failure I ever experienced, even the ones that blatantly disliked me and tried to trip me up on purpose. It was all part of life's training seminar. I went to a small school where everyone knew everyone else very well. In larger schools, or in classes where there are obvious "problem children" demanding so much of their attention, a teacher simply does not always have the time to get to know every kid as they'd like to.

(Willow, I'm not saying any of this applies to you, your school, or any of your students in any way whatsoever. So I hope that nothing I've written out expresses any kind of negativity towards teachers or school, because I have great respect for both. I'm putting my experience out there, and kind of wondering if it's similar to other Inattentives.)

College- Though it is still bewildering to me, I am a member of my Honors College (fooled them again!); a member of Phi Theta Kappa; have a 3.5 cumulative GPA; have good working relationships with lots of great professors; got a 4.0 in all four of my required Honors classes; somehow got to do two State Honors Conference presentations in a row. If I can get a 4.0 GPA my last two semesters, I'll graduate with high honors, which tickles me pink. We will not discuss my grades in math. ;) Started college very late, age 32. Taking it rather slow. I'm full-time, but adding some "fun" courses to keep my interest up, because I know myself. I say all this not to brag; believe me, I've had a couple failures in college, too. I am only tentatively happy about my success. I have a ways to go, and I always fear myself, since I'm my own worst enemy. The older we get, I think the more we tend to realize this. Also, it's a crappy economy and nothing is guaranteed.

BTW, I was either the most competent broad around or a complete f-up at work, depending upon the day, month, or year. I went from one extreme to the other in every job I was at. The first year is always fine. If I'm allowed to progress to another job after a year, I'm good. If I got to keep doing the same job, forget it- brain goes out to lunch along with all good intentions (and I had many).

Inattentives are a bewildering bunch, IMHO. They may seem out to lunch, but believe me, there can actually be a LOT going on up there. No one in the world may even know what is brewing in their brain. Maybe it's good, maybe it isn't, but I would venture a bet they do care about something. They may be guarded either by nature or by nurture, and don't tell a soul about what that something is. It might be important to look at the kid's background for clues. If their parents are "out to lunch", it may just be a genetic trait, or a coping mechanism of the Inattentive kid. ("If I expect nothing, then I'll never be disappointed.") I always think Inattentive kids are intriguing; one of them may be the next Madonna (the singer, not Jesus' mother), George Carlin, Mariah Carey, Woody Allen, or Dolly Parton. If I remember correctly, all of them disliked school intensely and/or were very rebellious while there. Or the Inattentive student could end up on America's Most Wanted. You never know. :umm1: :)

Inattentives are also the masters of unexpected comebacks, and of being "fashionably late" to their own life's party. We can seem down for the count, then something deep down inside drags us to our feet and lifts up back up at the very last second, right before that final ding of the bell. That is my rambling two cents for the evening, y'all. :)

Donny997
06-24-15, 10:45 PM
thats true, an issue with avoidant /schizoid traits I've personally run into though, is the whatever combination of biological environmental traits it may be, is alexythymic /dissociative states , it hinders any progress i move towards

That's very interesting and I can see how that would cause problems. I never knew what alexythymic was, but after googling it, I think it's an inability to identify and express emotions? If you do have that, that is probably very indicative of some solid avoidant traits, I think.

I only say that because my therapist pointed out to me that avoidant personality is more than behavioural avoidance of social situations but also avoidance of emotions and intimate sharing, etc.

Perhaps it's the feature that truly defines the avoidant and like you said, why it makes progress is hard to come by. I think a good therapist would definitely help that - a good therapist though, not a cookie-cutter CBT one, no offence to them (they're great at what they do, but I'm talking about a more analytic therapist here).

Kirby Albee
07-23-15, 02:25 AM
I've not read all the way to page six, but I would say that the social context in which we live our lives probably plays an enormous, and impossible to isolate, part in how things go for us.

salleh
07-23-15, 08:23 AM
.....I had some thing pithy to say, (as usual I fear it was a non-sequitor)....but as I was typing it out ....I completely lost the point I was going to make .....lord knows where it went.....