This is something I want to hear people's anecdotes on... hide whatever names you need to, and respond privately if you like.

But one of the things I have had trouble with in life was being attracted sexually too easily and too often and too inappropriately. It lost me the first woman I loved. I left her, because I couldn't understand why if I truly loved her, I still felt the impulse/urge to go after other women that went by...

I felt like either I didn't truly love her, or that I was broken, because a man who truly loves one woman shouldn't feel the things I was feeling.

Nowadays I suspect it's more the impulsive nature of ADHD... get distracted easily when a pretty girl goes by (or one who shares my interests, who has a good sense of humour, who admires me for something I've done, God forbid it should be more than one reason...)

I am more forgiving of myself these days. The urge to flirt or pursue is harmless AS LONG AS I DON'T ACT ON IT. But when I was younger, I got myself in all sorts of trouble with women I should NOT have been involved with.

One was married, and I essentially helped break up her marriage.

Many I should have left alone because I was in a committed relationship.

Some I should have left alone because of the age difference.

Some I should have left alone because I knew intellectually that they weren't ready for a relationship and I was doing them no favours by pursuing them sexually.

There are a couple of others I can't share details about, but thank God I never got into any real trouble with them...

Now I am older I don't pursue these impulses anywhere near as much. But I still HAVE them. And that's frustrating as all hell because I have a wife who I truly love.

:( :( :(

On second thought, perhaps this belongs in Relationships. If the moderators agree, can you move it?

Paul: Are you looking for responses from both sexes, or just men????

I was originally thinking men, but there's no reason at all why it should be so restricted. If women have something to say on the subject I would love to hear it too.

I am also interested to hear if any women recognize their man as being like this too.

It has just caused a lot of pain in my life, so I am seeking to understand it better...

Paul: Are you into the 12-step fellowships (tailored after alcoholics anonymous)......There is one called Sex and Love Addicts Anomyous....(a google search will get you to their websites....there is also sex addicts anonymous as well)...It's all over the country and they even have on-line meetings.....

Many men share your struggle.....Frankly? I think it has something to do with the fact that um let's see, God made you guys with so much testosterone.....BUT and I know many others will undoubtedly respond to your post here....your own words say it well....AS LONG AS YOU DON'T ACT ON IT......meaning you can LOOK all you want, in other words....it's good to hear it's gotten a little better for you as you've gotten a little older.....

I appreciate your candor in this post Paul and your honest inventory...took courage.....if you need help with this issue, I strongly recommend getting it.....Here is link: www.slaafws.org

I have given this some thought and I don't think it is a question of sex addiction. Or if it is, then I am also addicted to a lot of other stuff too, such as TV, Internet, food, etc. It's a question of the prospect of something stimulating to the mind and emotion making me want to chase it...

And to clarify, I haven't actually slept with most of the people I am talking about here. I've just been a terrible flirt. It's the pursuit that gets me going... I am ashamed to say that I have had relationships where when the person agreed to go out with me, they lost a lot of their appeal... :( :( :(

Knowing this now, is what helps me keep myself in line. I know that I am not actually attracted to a lot of these people, but more attracted to the idea of pursuing and attaining them. Must be the hunter in me.

Have you ever talked through any of these issues with a counselor or therapist?

So if they agree to go out with you, you don't want them anymore? So sounds like you might only want what you can't have? (because once you have it, you don't want it?)

Paul: How about taking some of that "hunter" energy and putting it into something really worthwhile? Take it and go somewhere where you really want to be.... I mean as Dr. Phil says "where is this getting you"? or "what is this behavior getting you"? And to me it doesn't sound like it's getting you anywhere you want to be....Chase after something you really DO want:) "Flirt" with something you really want to be flirting with.....

I must say I relate to ALL of your addictions -- TV, INTERNET and Food....they are all killers:(

Brother, if I were you I wouldn't worry about it. Look, at it's most basic level we men are biologicaly programmed to "spread our seed". This is a scientific fact, and now there's evidence that this biological programming applies to women as well. From a Darwinian perspective pair bonding is only beneficial from "rearing the young" perspective, but from the genetic perspective the greater the variety the greater the chances of success. I'd be happy to dig up links on the net if anyone wants to persue this from scientific perspective.

Now from a humanistic perspective, the key word here is - respect. If you respect the quality of your relationship and the people you involve yourself with, it is unlikely that you will take actions that will be damaging to these relationships. The fact that you feel inclined to flirt is natural, how far you take that flirting - that's choice.

Don't feel guilty about the flirting. Don't allow the flirting to become damaging. Seek the middle path.

Originally posted by why
Brother, if I were you I wouldn't worry about it. Look, at it's most basic level we men are biologicaly programmed to "spread our seed". This is a scientific fact, and now there's evidence that this biological programming applies to women as well. From a Darwinian perspective pair bonding is only beneficial from "rearing the young" perspective, but from the genetic perspective the greater the variety the greater the chances of success. I'd be happy to dig up links on the net if anyone wants to persue this from scientific perspective.

Now from a humanistic perspective, the key word here is - respect. If you respect the quality of your relationship and the people you involve yourself with, it is unlikely that you will take actions that will be damaging to these relationships. The fact that you feel inclined to flirt is natural, how far you take that flirting - that's choice.

Don't feel guilty about the flirting. Don't allow the flirting to become damaging. Seek the middle path.

Hehehe... I think this is more or less what I was thinking on my own, but I was hoping to run into someone else who also thought the same way.

Which doesn't prove it's right, of course. But it sure makes me feel a lot better. :D :D :D

Paul: If the behavior is causing you emotional pain and wreaking havoc on other areas of your life, then yes I would give it further consideration......otherwise I would just consider your own words....AS LONG AS I DON'T ACT ON IT....(you have these words in caps, just like this)....

So the question is....are you acting on it? Or is the flirting really only harmless flirting? If it is just harmless flirting and there are no hidden agendas, I would then just let this thing go and not worry about it.....I think it's important to be real honest with yourself, however. It was important enough to you to bring it up here....Right? Enuf said:) Good luck:)

As a matter of fact I brought it up here because I am afraid to bring it up with most of the people close to me, as if they judged me for it it would be very difficult to deal with in my day to day life.

If you people judge me for it that will be painful, but I haven't had a lot of time to form friendships with you so far, so it's less of a risk, if you see what I mean...

As for am I acting on it... not in any harmful ways these days. Not any more.

I just wanted to know if any others had been through the same thing or not.

Been through the same thing?? Not myself but sure have known many guys that have been through the same thing....and they felt the same way as you....guilt and shame and not wanting to share with close peers.....and the ones where it was causing the MOST pain...and getting in the way of their lives....got help....This stuff hurt them very badly emotionally, especially the married ones.....because they knew although they loved their wives dearly, they felt it was a behavior they could not stop...and knew one day it would probably wreck their marriages if they did not stop....And they knew they were hurting the people they were "pursuing" as well....

Paul this issue is SO common,you would not believe it.....Chances are if your friends at home judged you for such an issue, they have it themselves....or they wouldn't react so strongly....Again though, only you can determine what harmless flirting is....what is "okay" and appropriate for you...what you can live with..and it sounds like you're okay with your behavior...so there ya go:)

Paul I have another thought. Have you ever heard of Love Languages? Physical touch is one of the love languages: Words of Affermation, gifts, service, and um... dang I forgot the fifth one... Anywho. Some people don't feel loved unless they see/feel their love language. Other times we show we care for someone using our love language. Now if your language is physical touch then you can get into relationships easily due to touch being so um well arousing.
For example: My love language is two parts: Physical touch and Words of Affermation. When I see friends, I hug them. Numerous times I've been accused of flirting when I am not. When I don't get much hugs I feel lonely and unloved. (Now that I'm aware of this I go get a hug from my teens) Understanding your love language can help you figure out how you treat people and how and why you feel things from others.

Ps My ex had service as his love language. He wasn't much of a talker or a hugger but he used to cook dinner for me, straighten things up ect. I had no idea he was telling me he loved me.
Any ways. Maybe this is what's happening to you.

hey paul; yeah ive done what you do.and felt what you felt.for me it was about getting validation and strokes from other women.andas many women as would give them to me.until i found out there werent enough women in the whole world to fill my bottomless pit of need and desire.it was never about the other women or the flirting.my therapist always told me this

.i do agree with joan.therapy might help.especialy if u cant discuss with friends.maybe pro help is necessary.

my therapist said all the chasing and runninghad to do with a child who never got his needs met.so i have had to learn to slow down.find ways to get my needs met from friends, myself, even.the answers aint out there in other women, no matter how many, no matter how much they may flirt back.

great thread!
great responses!
I have had all the similar problems, being a mother helped me.
I am an insatiable creature, fortunately there is a lot of udder stuff to be insaturated with.

Originally posted by janine
great thread!
great responses!
I have had all the similar problems, being a mother helped me.
I am an insatiable creature, fortunately there is a lot of udder stuff to be insaturated with.

"Insaturated"

I LOVE this BOARD!!!! :D :D :D

Keppig, I have read that book and recommend it too... unfortunately I am not certain that I fit one of the classic love languages. I always felt the most loved by partners that just accepted me for who I am and didn't try to change me. The book definitely helped me understand my wife better, she is a combination of the Quality Time / Gift Giving types... which clashes with me sometimes because I am someone who needs to spend a lot of time alone...

Oh yeah, that was the fifth language Quality Time! <slapping forehead with palm of hand> Thanks for reminding me.
It is a great book on understanding others.

Im not sure if how I am going to phrase this, if it is politically correct and if not then I appologise up front

Its the thrill of the hunt Paul, once you have captured the prey there is no thrill left. and its onto another hunt.

I also could relate to what you were saying at an earlier time in life but now I like to just look and appreciate the beauty of another woman.

My imagination still works well and it cant get me into trouble!!!!
__________________________________________________

My wife and I have a good understanding

If I fool around shes leaving

And I UNDERSTAND That
__________________________________________________


But she also understands that I have a lot of Female friends

I frind most Females more enjoyable to talk with then Males
__________________________________________________

I cant handle the testerone thing where males always having to prove there superiority to anyone who will pay attention

(better golfer, baseball player, hockey, ect)
{ why cant they play sports that are just for the fun of playing and not just so you can beat someone else }


Im not saying all males are like this but the few who you do run into really make it hard to relate.
__________________________________________________

This went a little off topic so Ill go back to the topic

Its the thrill of the hunt Paul, once you have captured the prey there is no thrill left. and its onto another hunt.

I think maybee this is somewhat similar to allways having to win whatever game you are playing

What if the hunted is the same gender as the hunter? The primal urge to "spread the seed" is still there... I've never been good at the competition, and have always bowed out from my low self-image--I don't do well meeting people in the first place, and have a terrible time with rejection.

Something happened to me recently, however, at 35--I suddenly "grew up," found out that I'm happier not worrying about it all, happier at home. Surprisingly or not surprisingly, I've been able to make friends with other men that I would have found myself wanting to be in bed with two years ago; and I've been able to be selective and open up front with them--so there's no surprises when the ADD rears its ugly head after the masks come off.

well that puts a twist on things doesn't it

I cant comment on that other than to say that my one son is GAY and quite happy now that he has come to grips with it

Hes still Adam , still my son and I still love him, and we enjoy spending time together.

So obviously I have no problem with it

Just cant understand why a male would find another male sexully attractive but I can understand that Id rather go fishing or bike riding or many other things with a male more than with a female.

Originally posted by FtLaudWolf
happier at home.

That is very easy to relate to

No preasure . no false pretences, just the privalage of being my own ADD self , and if someone doesnt like the way I am, I will very quickly and couteously show them where the door is an how it works

Paul S,

A different view from someone who has a something very similar.

A lot of ADD people find benefit from meds that stimulate dopamine production. One of the things that Dopamine does is to control out interest factor and our satisfaction in an activity.

It is the ability to focus on one activity, rather than be distracted by many that could possibly be what is happening to you; just in a different way(sexually) rather than what most ADD experience which is the inability to stay focused.

I understand exactly what you do....I do it to, just possibly to a lesser extent. I don't need to have sex with those I see, but my mind cranks over the possibility of going out with them(more detail later, but sufficient for now), and the flirting is a standard part of the process.

I can be sitting in a cafe, reading the paper, and all of a sudden my mind has started wandering off into possibility land. I know when it will happen, what thoughts go through my mind, and have deleloped a little check process that stops the process before I get into trouble. I can even feel the change as my interest factor kicks in, and knowing the next 20 setps; I stop it straight away(usually, but again, another story).

The trouble is, to be frankly honest, is that I would rather not have to be having to check myself at all!!. The whole thrill-of-the-chase thing although superficially fun, is pretty saddening when you know that you are about to do another lap of what ultimately is going to be another failure.

I have yet to find a permanent solution Paul, and the therapy, counselling suggested above may work. I'm still understanding the neurological basis for some of these things, and hopefully, with either a diet/med balance, it is something that I will be able to control.

Fortunately it is not the biggest of my issues, and I have developed a process that works mostly for me. I do understand the frustration that comes with knowing that you are going down a path of destruction without anyway of knowing how to stop it. I've been there, done that, crashed and burned plenty of what otherwise would have been good relationships.

And as to the testosterone/male thing....I definately think this is different to that. My 2 cents leans on the focus/attention/reward deficiency area as I can tell the difference between the two. I've had the "urge" as one might say, and it is defiantely different.

I've managed to destroy enough relationships, that I owe any one all the help I can if it leads to even just one less problem somewhere in this world.

I hope this helps in someway, and if you want to talk further, feel free to drop me a line.

Sleepz.

Thanks again for the responses. I am really appreciating hearing this.

There is definitely something to the "seeing the possibilities" thing. Everything I have read, and my own experience, suggests that ADDers are dreamers, we see the potential in any situation... which is a very short leap to, seeing the potential for a relationship with that interesting girl who just walked by. But the check process and the wife who will leave me if I fool around are both working for me too... hehehe

Like Sleepz said, I wish I didn't have to have such a process. I don't think there is anything wrong with my impulses and quite frankly if there weren't any consequences to them, I would pursue them. But I am too smart to pretend that there are no consequences, so like another person said, I just enjoy the person's appearance and the momentary daydream that might come with it.

I don't see why it would be any different for a gay man (or woman). Intellectually, I think there would be a lot of advantages to being gay or bi, you are a lot more likely to find a partner who will relate to you and intuitively understand your thinking. Unfortunately guys just don't attract me that way, or I would have experimented long ago with it...

[i] I don't think there is anything wrong with my impulses and quite frankly if there weren't any consequences to them, I would pursue them. [/B]

What is wrong with the impulses is that there are consequences but your internal natural check mechanism isn't working properly. If your impulses were normal, then you would not be getting them and you would have no problems.

It's kinda like giving up smoking. You know the feeling is in the background, you know you could give in to it at the drop of a hat....but you choose not to.

Hey...what an idea...Zyban patches. I can just see the ad.

Strayaway patches, the latest from Zyban....for those days when every woman you is so damned attractive and you just can't stop yourself.

Sorry...I just coudn't resist.

Sleepz.:p

Originally posted by Paul S
But the check process and the wife who will leave me if I fool around are both working for me too... hehehe

I don't think there is anything wrong with my impulses and quite frankly if there weren't any consequences to them, I would pursue them.



REALLY Paul????????? R-E -A-L-L-Y??????????
REALLY Paul???? I mean really think about it....(sort of like my saying if I could eat six cakes tonight without gaining ten pounds I would....and the truth is, I STILL would not).....

Where will it get you? Nowhere....Where would the cake get me? Nowhere...What would it do for you? NOthing....(for what? ten minutes of thrills per woman, tops?) And then you're just left with yourself.....:( Sounds lonely to me....:(

Think about this on a deeper plane....You said in your introductions that there are things you haven't accomplished yet in your life....Now if your wife said to you sure honey go be with every woman you want and I will not leave you....you would actually go for it??? Can you imagine the time involved in all that activity? Can you imagine the time away from your own wife and kid in all that activity? Paul, I think there are consequences that you are not even aware of....it's not JUST about that your wife will leave you....It's deeper than that....WAY DEEPER....It has to do with loss of dignity, loss of integrity, etc. I mean each day you stay true and faithful to your family and make a choice to stay true and faithful is one more notch on your dignity and integrity scale and probably one more step toward what you REALLY want to be doing on this earth....I think that going with the moment and acting on impulses, even if you THINK there would be no consequences, is not what you want in the long run....only in the short run, in the moment....And I think ADD'ers have SUCH trouble seeing any further than this very moment...what feels good in the moment.

Paul, as I read your posts, it's clear you are sweet and nice and smart and funny and have a lot going for you...Frankly, I think you deserve a whole lot BETTER than what your impulses might tell you to do...or the consequences of acting on them....ALL of them...if I were you, I would tell your impulses where to go....(I need to keep this cleam):)

I've never been blessed with a spouse or a child, let alone who want me to stay faithful to them... . I'd love to be in your shoes....

Well, it's all academic anyways, as my wife would be very hurt if she found me with another woman and would never give me such permission.

And I love her very much and want to stay with her the rest of my life.

If things were different... you're right, I still would not pursue all of the impulses.

But I might pursue some of them. Not with "ten minutes of pleasure" in mind. I would be the most attracted to people I respect the most, and would never want to do that to them.

Paul, have you seen the movie, "High Fidelity" with John Cusack? Excellent movie, and it has an insight at the end of it that will help you see why your wanting to be with other females is fantasy and not realistic. I'm not saying it's wrong to feel that way, I think all men do, and that makes it even more meaningful that they stay with one woman.

Don't focus on the things preventing you from being with other women, just think about all the failed relationships you've had in the past, and how wonderful the one you have now is and that's why you should stick with her. Every person has faults, gets tired, cranky, etc., but you have made the decision that she is SO EXCEPTIONAL that you want to be with her for the rest of your life. What's changed? Probably nothing except you've forgotten how horrible being single and dating can be... remind yourself. Then remind her how much you love her.

If I read Paul correctly, this isn't a purely sexual thing. I think his needs are deeper that that. It isn't simply about sex, it's about the "emotional commitment" that another makes to you when you befriend them. I think Paul would most likely be classified as a "serial monogamist". Am I right? You probably had a long string of girlfriends who were serious relationships - exactly the way our ADD interests usually manifest. Paul - your flirting is nothing more than your ADD expressing itself in your love interests. If you think about it this way - you may be able to manage it better. I didn't quit my job to build a watch repair shop when that was my obsession - because I realized that it too will pass. Your flirting is just probably ADD - manage it like you would any other symptom; don't get stressed about it and get down on yourself. My 2c.

Sounds like a valid theory as to my emotions and actions, but circumstance has actually prevented me from having a "long" string of girlfriends. :D It's been a fairly short one with a few very serious relationships, and then a handful of others that never got serious at all (emotionally or physically).

"Don't get stressed and don't get worried" "Manage like any other ADD symptom"....not sure I believe it's that easy or simple:)........Paul brought this up, so I believe he was stressing and getting worried......and having difficulty mananging this particular ADD symptom more than other ADD symptoms perhaps....according to his initial post on this.....:)

Paul: I totally appreciate your process the entire way through this post...and the fact that you responded when people gave you feedback (with clarification, etc.) and let us know what was helping and what wasn't and in general your giving feedback to people's feedback!!! Not a lot of really good processing like this goes on here at forums...SOME but not a lot....But I guess it takes people like you who are courageous enough to be honest and vulnerable and let people see who you really are....and continue to show up after you've done so.....

And so now that you know EXACTLY where you stand with your wife but more important now that you know what you want for YOURSELF -- "I love her very mich and want to stay with her the rest of my life" -- you can concentrate and focus on this.....

Focus on what you WANT, not on what you DON'T want...and I agree with Force...being single and dating is the pits....:(

I appreciate your post, Joan, but I'm not sure I am seeing myself from the same perspective as you are.

That doesn't necessarily mean I am right and you are wrong, you might have more insight BECAUSE you have a different perspective looking inwards...

The reason I brought this up and continue to discuss it is it is something I have thought a lot about, written poetry exploring the emotions behind, but never felt free to discuss with people before, especially the people closest to me in my life.

I have always had other problems that bothered me as much or more, but I have never had any trouble discussing them with people, if you see what I mean?

How can you go to your true love, and tell her you're worried because you are having a lot of impulses to cheat on her? You CAN'T. You'd have to be braver than Jesus Christ himself, and just as immune to being killed. :D :D :D

So it's more a matter of frustration that I haven't been able to discuss it, than the impulses or their consequences are reaching a crisis point in my life. I actually have things fairly under control at the moment. I am just unhappy that I have had to go through this in my life without anyone to talk to about it.

NOBODY??? Well I guess for me that seems kind of sad...(and no don't tell your wife this stuff!!!, of course not:)).....

I guess I always assumed (yes we should never assume things) that just because I am blessed with a few really special same-sex friends that I could easily share these types of things with -- that EVERYBODY is......I mean I guess I just can't imagine your not having a few close guy friends in your life that you connect with in this way....WHY? Well, for one you seem like you would be a really good friend....not-judgmental, kind, compassionate, etc. So I figure these are the types of people you must have in your life....but I guess that is not quite right....Whoever the friends are in your life...this is NOT the type of stuff you can or wish to entrust them with....(right?)........(not to get off track but my guess is they would probably love to entrust YOU with this type of stuff)

Anyway.....So I naturally assume the situation for you is worse than it is....but you say it isn't -- that things are under control -- cool......makes sense now that I understand things better...I'm sorry for misunderstanding.....

And I too am sorry that you have had to go through this without anyone to talk about it....:(

Well I have talked it over with a couple of guy friends...

But my best friends who I could talk it over with are pretty much overwhelmed right now by all the things their own busy personalities have filled their plates up with. We have no time for each other in our mutual schedules.

And they didn't seem to really connect with me on this issue when I started talking about it.

It's also safer to discuss it here. None of you know my wife. :D :D :D

They didn't connect with you on this issue? Sorry, but I find this hard to believe......Paul, if they are guys, they connect.

Even my female friends have the wanting to be with many members of opposite sex issue ....(as we speak, my freaking roommate is on her 5th marriage and sleeping with her ex-husband, God only knows why).......

I THINK it sounds as if your friends aren't as willing to be as honest and open about it as you.....and just as they know YOUR wife, you know THEIR wives as well....and maybe they don't like that, perhaps because some of them are really planning to act on their impulses....So they use being too busy as an excuse not to talk with you about it.......How long does it take to get together after work for a quick beer or soda???:)

In any event, since you haven't had people to discuss this issue with, I'm glad forums was here for you....COOL:) And true, we don't know your wife...:)

Heh, well the possibilities are always there that you are right on some of these things, but my friends in question are not your run of the mill people. They don't follow many stereotypes.

:D :D :D

Really?? Are these GUY friends we are talking about? :)If so, I (and most people) do tend to stereotype most guys into yes, your typical run of the mill, EYE-WANDERING/can't help but notice the pretty girl....type.....

But if you say they're not typical run of the mill, then who I am to argue???? I don't know your friends....Only you do....I just think it's sad you can't discuss your inner most stuff with them for whatever reason (whether a trust issue or fear of being judged issue or whatever)... because as I said, you sound like a great friend....and great friends tend to have/make great friends....

So again, it's good forums was here for you Paul....:)

Hehehe we just aren't going to end up on the same wavelength here, are we? :D :D :D

Nope:) but I'm still not going to give up my argument for the possibility that you have good skills at being a friend...of course since I don't know you, it's a hunch but I am quite sure I'm right.....(and not all people are good friends....some people, quite frankly, are lousy at it)....:(

And if I (and this is just me), were in your shoes, I would want to discuss the issues you bring up in this thread, with friends, in person, if for no other reason -- that I would get HUGS from my friends when we're done:) I guess that may or may not be a big difference between men and women ..liking to be hugged after sharing "emotional" issues.....Is that important to you? It is to me.

(here you only get mental hugs, not real physical ones...)

Oh and one other thing Paul......I'm REALLY glad you're here:)

Thanks. I am glad you're here too. An intelligent, friendly devil's advocate is a very valuable thing... and I am sure we will agree on many other things... :D

Oops my turn....I almost forgot this....Thanks for kind words Paul....:D

Originally posted by aforceforgood
Paul, have you seen the movie, "High Fidelity" with John Cusack? Excellent movie, and it has an insight at the end of it that will help you see why your wanting to be with other females is fantasy and not realistic. I'm not saying it's wrong to feel that way, I think all men do, and that makes it even more meaningful that they stay with one woman.

Don't focus on the things preventing you from being with other women, just think about all the failed relationships you've had in the past, and how wonderful the one you have now is and that's why you should stick with her. Every person has faults, gets tired, cranky, etc., but you have made the decision that she is SO EXCEPTIONAL that you want to be with her for the rest of your life. What's changed? Probably nothing except you've forgotten how horrible being single and dating can be... remind yourself. Then remind her how much you love her.

That's an excellent movie recommendation. Although my problem is different, I'm seeking the end rather than enjoying the means of relationships (I WANT comitment and to settle down), but my problems get in the way of them forming in the first place.

Other good movies on intelligent men with difficulties in relationships:

A Beautiful Mind ("movie-Schizophrenia" rather than ADD, but hey)

Immortal Beloved (bad Beethoven biography, but good movie on its own. Beethoven was likely lead poisoned which leads to some ADD-like symptoms)

Chaplin (trying to regain that first love)

Longitude, the A&E mini-series (John Harrison the bull-headed iconoclast inventor. Rupert Gould portrayed by Jeremy Irons as "overfocused ADD" with schizoidal personality disorder (?), uncomfortably close to my mark)

Enigma (life imitates art, I was Tom Jerico and my most notorious ex-gf was Claire!! Unfortunately I've not meet Hester yet :( )

Wonder Boys (inattentive ADD through excessive pot smoking! LOL)

Well. I am more like you Paul. For a woman to be so has been very damaging to my feelings of who or what I am growing up. I am , as recently as two years, beginning to be ok with being a (for lack of a better term) highly sensual person. As you said, learning when too far is too far has been difficult for me. I am grateful for someone in my life who is alot like me in the flirting arena because it has a) helped me realize I'm not some freak, b) that this is a workable situation and I AM able to say no 3) that if and when someone I love plays at flirting, provided they are healthy, self honest and working hard at themselves it doesnt mean i am some how failing by them being attracted to someone else. (I still have trouble with this one so, I try not to stick around to witness it and I only look at them as a whole to monitor whether or not Im doing the wrong thing keeping the ties.)

Originally posted by Lafnalot
[B that if and when someone I love plays at flirting, provided they are healthy, self honest and working hard at themselves it doesnt mean i am some how failing by them being attracted to someone else. (I still have trouble with this one so, I try not to stick around to witness it and I only look at them as a whole to monitor whether or not Im doing the wrong thing keeping the ties.) [/B]

WOW....thanks for this Crissy....sure needed to hear this today....an incredible reality check....

I ALWAYS thought just the opposite was true with the guys I've been with.....that I was the failure if they "liked" someone else in any way....(which usually was the case).....which may be why it's such a sore issue for me:(

Yep Joan, funny thing is I do both sides. I am the flirter and the impulsively sexual one and I have been with the same.........its been torturous lol

Thanks for the brutal honesty......but then you always were.....:)

Thanks for the additional perspective Lafnalot... thank god we're all mature enough to share this sort of stuff with each other...

It is great to know more about this topic as it is one that I am unfortunately quite familiar with myself. Great post Lafnalot.

Sleepz

Crissy, you rock! I'm just like that myself. I have to admit though sometimes when I throw my breaks on, I sometimes throw off my male counterpart. I quickly apology....

Originally posted by Paul S
Thanks for the additional perspective Lafnalot... thank god we're all mature enough to share this sort of stuff with each other...

Either that (we're mature enough) or it just feels good to finally share the gut level truth with this stuff where some people might not have opportunities to do so elsewhere......knowing this is a safe place to do so....

Darn for me it's SUCH an ego boost to be flirted with (which doesn't happen often)....whether I like the guy or not....sometimes I'll pretend to like the guy just so he'll continue to flirt with me.....which is actually quite selfish on my part....

Selfish , Joan, or HUMAN? The issue with doing something "selfish" isn't whether or not we do it but whether ir not we did it knowingly ansd didn't fix it when we saw it. You don't strike me as an overtly selfish person.

Originally posted by Lafnalot
Selfish , Joan, or HUMAN? The issue with doing something "selfish" isn't whether or not we do it but whether ir not we did it knowingly ansd didn't fix it when we saw it. You don't strike me as an overtly selfish person.

Cuz I'm quite a good actor....:D.....that's why....perhaps not OVERTLY selfish but away from these forums and in my own life....yes I can be quite selfish with questionable motives sometimes:( But thanks.....you're so kind....:)

You know it's true though....doing it knowingly and fixing it when we see it.....the question is do we fix right away or wait way too long? Sometimes I wait wayyyyyyyyy too long:(

You know, that's another aspect of it from my point of view. I KNOW a lot of women get a thrill out of being flirted with, so in some ways by flirting with someone, I am doing them a favour, even if I honestly believe they will never be anything more than a friend to me (their decision, and mine).

That's another reason why it is temptingly dangerous behaviour. Because I HATE to see women who really deserve a good guy not getting attention from other guys.

Hehehe, so me in all my arrogance, my impulse is to provide it to them myself... :D :D :D

Thanks Paul.....totally impressed by your brutal honesty as well....holy moly this is turning into a great thread.....:) I think I will go and give it a 5-star rating.....:)

Paul,

Sounds like a great idea. I tried that a few times and my partners at time either slapped me or left me. Remind me to check how my CURRENT partner feels about flirting before I try flirting with others next time.

sleepz.

Hehehe, let me know if you find one who doesn't mind.

Then I might slap YOU out of jealousy. :D :D :D

Hey Paul,

It might be a tough job...I may have to try a lot of flirting before I find the one. I hate to do it....but will have to just to prove there is one!!

Gotta run now...I can see someone out the window...."excuse me miss...I think this rose has your name on it......." hehehe

Sleepz

To all Men: The truth is women are jealous and insecure -- in relationships...well I'll speak for myself in the "we".....

"WE" are jealous and insecure in relationships...that's just how it goes.....We want to think that YOU think we are the most special, pretty and wonderful things on this earth......

And so if we tell you "oh go ahead honey, flirt with her....don't mind..." -- chances are we're lying through our teeth just to appear strong....and cool......because

We don't want you to know in actuality how jealous we are because we think that you think that jealousy is unattractive.....and you won't like us as much anymore....and we'll lose those unspoken "points"....on your approval of us scale...

This is MY stuff only....I must admit....:(

Naw, I'm pretty sure you're speaking for my wife and all of my exes too :D :D :D

Okay....but what woman in her right mind would admit such things???? As for myself only HERE would I admit such things....

Out THERE -- forget it...............Out THERE I'm so NOT jealous and so NOT insecure.....and soooo cool......at least I try to act this way....who knows if people can see through my facade....probably:(

Good book title: "Romantic Impulses -- Dangerously So....." Could be a sequel type story to "Fatal Attraction".....:D

Joan,

I need to meet more people like you!! Cool on the outside; warm sensitive and loving on the inside.

I historically have been more inclined to go out with women that quizzed all female interraction with suspision. Quite destructive at best; down right nasty at worst.

I'm getting better...I just don't go out any more...solved the whole problem!!

Sleepz.

Originally posted by joanrdtobe
Good book title: "Romantic Impulses -- Dangerously So....." Could be a sequel type story to "Fatal Attraction".....:D

More like "Fatal Distraction"... :D

Originally posted by sleepzalot
Joan,

I need to meet more people like you!! Cool on the outside; warm sensitive and loving on the inside.



Sleepz.


Well now you've made my day, Sleepz. THANKS.....:)

So what are you doing this Saturday night???:D Care to have "decaf"??:)

(Holy moly did I just not only say that but pressed the "send" button for all to read???):)

Paul: "Fatal Distraction"......:D :D :D

Paul, Fatal Distraction would be perfect!
That line brings so many images to mind. Like when you are on a date and your eyes dart around, not because you are bored with the one you are with, just the fact things are moving around you that grab your attention.
Or when they call you on the phone and everything in your home pulls you away from your phone call.

Joan- I can honestly say Jeolosy isn't an emotion I get often at all. Maybe part of it has to do with my feeling of not deserving. How many women feel that? I think its my honesty that's scares most men away.

Dayum, Keppig, where were you when I was single? hehehe :D :D :D

Honesty does NOT scare me away... I value it very highly in a partner!

I feel "not deserving" with my jealousy.....Unfortunately if I see a woman with man that I like I will feel as if I don't deserve him (I have crap for self esteem).....AND at the same time -- jealous that she's with him, not me......Screwed up? YES....

I would LOVE to not be a jealous woman like you Kassie....sure might save me a lot of emotional pain:(

I wish I wave a magic wand and wished your pains away, Joan honey. :)

I have taken the avoidance lane, because of my change in status to married.

I was the "pet" of the women's wing of the dorm in college for one term. Not when i had a girl friend. i found it easier to be around women and blend into the backgound as best i could.

Guys seemed simple and stupid and shallow.... except for my friends.

I see things that turn me on, or strongly attract me, and I just turn away or run the other direction. Trouble with no benefits.

You're a wise, wise man. :D

Can I have a half n half???

One that isn't jealous, but at the same time; is happy to let me know how they feel when the moment is right.

Honesty is great; brutal honesty is....ahhh....brutal. I like my faults in small doses; 1 at a time, and no condecesending.

Sleepz.

Thanks Kassie:)

Sleepz: When the moment is right, can a woman tell you she is jealous if that is indeed the truth and have this be okay???......

All men who would care to, please answer this....I always wondered about his.....I mean sharing thoughts and feelings honestly is part of what intimacy is all about, right?.....

But what about sharing the "J" word guys? Is that a total turn-off for you? AND if God forbid we should get REALLY honest (not brutally so...I agree brutally honest is brutal)...and say "I get jealous when you flirt with so and so".....um, is that okay?

Enlighten me please......:)

Sleepz and Joan, a little jealousy is normal and healthy, and you should never have to hide your feelings from your partner in my opinion. If my woman is feeling jealous, I don't mind her telling me!

It's just frustrating that she is SO jealous, so much of the time. Not telling me about it isn't the solution to the problem, though. All it will do is make her bottle up her anger and resent me and whoever it is I am talking with...

And I want HER to be able to accept it if I tell her that I think her jealousy is getting in the way of me being happy... not so she will hide her feelings or magically stop having them... just so she will understand how I am feeling... if both people understand each other, then that is the best chance you will have to strike a bargain or compromise with each other as to what will hurt both of you the least.

If you find yourself with a man who simply can't take it when you tell him how you feel... then I think you have found yourself with the wrong man hun...

In reverse... I am not a jealous person... not romantically anyways. Never have been. The first woman I ever loved was actually married to another man, and I never asked her to leave him for me. Correction - I did ask her to leave him later in our relationship, but that was because he raped her. The point was, she didn't want to leave him, she wanted to be with me at the same time, and I was ok with that. Correction: not at the SAME time, get your minds out of the gutter :D :D :D

My own wife I love dearly and want to stay with forever... but I am not jealous of her at all. If she wants to be friends with guys, flirt, look at pornography, whatever, it makes no difference to me, more power to her... as far as I am concerned it is very simple logic:

Either she loves me truly or she does not.

If she does, then no other guy can change that. And I want her to be happy. And if she gets a thrill from some guy flirting with her, and I love her, why would that bother me?

If she doesn't truly love me, and some other guy steals her from me, then all that will do is prove that she was never really mine to begin with... and you can't lose what you have never had. Furthermore, if I love her and she decides at some point that she REALLY doesn't want me anymore, why would I try to keep her? I would not be doing her any favours. Do stalking victims want their stalkers to keep trying to win them back? Of course not...

So jealousy just doesn't make SENSE to me. My wife could have all the freedom she wants... but ironically, she is very loyal... she would never cheat on me, and goes out of her way to tell me how much she loves me and will be mine only forever.

I really think I am unusual with the lack of jealousy though. I have discussed it with a LOT of people and almost nobody feels the same way... in fact, my wife has told me she would feel more flattered if I DID act a bit more jealous and possessive sometimes... would feel more like I truly loved her...

I'm alittle confused, isn't Jeolosy and Trust sortof related to each other. I mean, if you have jeolosy doesn't that mean you don't quite trust your partner? And if you trust your partner, you don't have jeolosy? I ask because I'm a very trusting person and I never felt jeolosy in a relationship.... though this doesn't neccisarily mean it was a good thing... sometimes the warning light doesn't come on.. ;)

Hmmm. I hadn't thought of it in those terms, but I totally see what you mean.

I do trust my wife completely and totally. Maybe that's part of why I am not jealous.

Maybe this means she doesn't trust me...

Paul: Thanks for your "how it really is".....post.....that helped a lot.....

And I think jealousy and trust have little to do with each other.....I think trust is an "inner feeling" you get about another person....and you either CAN or you CAN'T trust another person.

Jealousy on the other hand I think has little to do with what is really going on with the other person, but mostly about ONESELF only....the insecurity of loss, the insecurity of others being prettier, better......I think jealousy also perhaps has no basis for many people.......So I think you CAN trust someone (you know deep down the person will be true, faithful, etc.).....AND at the same time -- you can be jealous.....

I could see that happening for me with a future husband....I will trust him totally....absolutely....but yet STILL feel jealous if "younger" women flirt with him, etc. or if God forbid he flirts back... Doesn't mean I don't trust him......or that he's going to do anything -- I think the jealousy is just about ME, and not routed or based on anything real....and the jealousy tendency started a LONG time before I had ever met him....most likely....

Long post that tells only part of the story...Grab a pillow.

**Normal disclaimer...No offence meant, just another view into the collective pot**

Jealousy is the point where you get the feeling that someone else is getting a benefit that you think you should be getting. If I am feeling jealous, it is because my partner is giving her attention to another person...attention that I think belongs to me. It can be a conversation; a joke; just time working with someone else....all it needs to be is some something that I wish I was getting more of.

The nasty side of jealousy is when this balance gets way out of control, where a person gets 99% of the attention; but wants this last 1%. I see that as the major problem with the person feeling jealous. My guess is that the person feeling jealous has low self esteem; and they fear that the attention given elsewhere will lead to something because they believe the other person is a better person.

Now I am a realist...sometimes this does happen; and a short chain isn't always a bad thing...from the person feeling jealousy's point of view. From the other persons view...they have done nothing wrong...so why the short chain??..why not just be able to talk to anyone, chat, have a laugh, without fear of getting into trouble when you have done nothing wrong.

Flirting I think takes on a special meaning if a flirtatious person goes out with a jealous person. Recipe for trouble. The jealous person cannot help but be jealous; but the flirting will make them pushy and restrictive. The flirt will likely rebel due to the feeling that they are being unnecessarily constrained. The more the constraint; the more the rebellion. End result; the flirtatious person ends up finding the current relationship too hard and leaves....sometimes with someone else who is able to let them be themself. The jealous person, will nearly always believe that the flirtatious person left them for someone else..someone they were seeing all along. As they are right at least 1 in 10 times, they feel that justifies them feeling this way all the time. Jealousy can be quite viscous in the way that it can twist things way out of proportion.

Now what do I think?? I think that when you enter into the relationship...for better or worse...you really have to work this out. You need to understand in what areas you will get jealous; and work out some sort of balance. Without balance; it will tip over..have no doubt about that.

As for the partner who is flirtatious. They have a choice. With this person that they love, they can choose between the joy of flirting or the joy of the love this person gives. The other person isn't making them choose. You must choose yourself. Your jealous partner can only be themselves; and until their self esteem is high enough; anything that will bring out the jealousy will cause trouble.

I see this like the 50/50 contribution in a relationship. If you are with a jealous person; you will have to give more than 50% as they can only give as much as there jealousy allows. In return though; you have every reason to expect to be loved and feel loved in a greater than 50% kind of way. Most jealous people have a great amount of love; and give such a tremendously wonderful loving feeling...if they are given the support of a non threatening/flirting partner.

Now I'm not saying the flirt is the bad partner...I'm just saying that a jealous person has there own strengths and weaknesses...and that the jealous/flirt combo has a lot of risk. Personally; I'll choose the jealous person every time...why??...because I love the intensity of their love. Although flirting can be fun, flirting can be done anytime; any day...but how often can you find someone that really, really loves you??? In the long run; the jealous person may come around to understanding how fantastic the flirt is for being so supportive; that they can relax more; and the flirt can be a little more of their outgoing self.

Lastly on flirting....The number of people who believed in themselves to be trustworthy; and then, as a result of flirting; ended up doing something really stupid is quite a lot. I respect those honour their commitment; but I am a realist...temptation is best resisted when the forbidden fruit is absent.

Well...I could go on to Trust and being Faithful...but that is even longer than the above!!!...so enough for now.

Sleepz.

Sleepz: Your description of the dynamic between the jealous person and the flirt sounds like an interesting "dance"....lots to think about....and clearly see myself in there.....I believe you might be giving too much credit to the jealous person, however, that is, not indicating that there really is something "wrong" or malfunctional with their character of jealousy.....and their acting it out.....

I hear you state the jealous person makes the flirt feel restricted.....VERY restricted....somehow it seems to me the jealous person needs to be working on SOMETHING....self esteem? How to do this?

In any event, thanks for some great food for thought....please do share on faithfulness and trust.....:)

Well I want to interject that Jealousy is fear that something that rightfully should be yours or given to you et al is NOT, that doesnt have to be possessiveness or a lack of trust. One can have a very healthy relationship with a loved one (whether its your mother, friend or lover) and still have jealousy pangs. I have them all the time , d&*&*- it. Rage, anger and possesiveness are different reactions TO jealousy.

And by the way, I have had those reactions at times in my past. Like Joan said, what woman would dare admit to jealousy? I would have rather gnawed my right arm off quietly then ever admit that I might fear loss of someones attentions. I am getting better at admitting it, and dealing with it and myself. Sometimes I am right to be jealous. Sometimes, HIS (or HER) attention should be mine at that moment, even if it means I have to strip naked and juggle to get it.

And, and and....psyche

Hrmmm....There is NO doubt that a naked juggler would get MY attention..... :D

You know what the problem is with this?

Efforts to get my attention generally **** me off.

When I am focusing on something, and my wife attempts to distract me, I get angry. She KNOWS I am interested in what I am doing, and yet she wants me to turn away from it and talk about something or do something or go somewhere that DOESN'T interest me.

I understand she may be feeling neglected... so I try to spend as much time and love and attention on her as I can... but when I am having MY time, why can't I just be left alone?

Sounds like she's jealous of the attention you're giving to these other things....even though you say you give HER ample attention.....Have you discussed with her how it makes you feel when she interrupts an activity you're heavily involved with.....?

Does she know when she interrupts that it makes you angry? The apparent solution is to communicate with her and agree on how much of your time SHE gets vs. how much of your time the other stuff gets....

and negotiate for your own "alone time" where she agrees not to interrupt no matter what.....unless the house is on fire....

Hmmm is this answer too simplified -- is the issue really more complicated than this?:(

I've seen this as well. When we hyperfocus, we DONT want to be interrupted; and if interrupted; we are not happy about it. When the reason your interupted just so that you can input your onion on whats for Dinner...and then once you give your opinion its ignored...thats WAR!.

I don't think its a jealousy thing. More a consideration problem. If the interruption is important; you can deal with the interruption (barely); but nearly all the time; it's trivial.

I have had it suggested to me that the answer is to learn how to multi-task. My answer was...."your still interrupting me!!; I was happy concentrating on what I was doing just fine; and God didn't fit me with the all-purpose; multi-tasking brain that you seem to have".

Oh...and "just go give your mother a call" doesn't go down well either.

Sleepz.

hehehe :D :D :D

I always find the "Give me 5 minutes and I'll be right with you" helps. It gives me time to switch gears... Some gears take longer so I will change the time to corrispond with that. :)

True, Sleepz, but I think within the inconsiderate-ness going on, there's some jealousy buttons being pushed big-time.....she wants attention darnit and she wants it NOW:)......

She may be asking the other person's input about dinner -- and it may have nothing to do with dinner....again in reference to what was being discussesd earlier -- she thinks the attention he is giving to whatever it is -- should be put on HER.....

No, we ADD-ers were not blessed with brains that can multi-task BUT we are blessed with communication/negotiation skills.....and I think as hard as it is, the answer might be to try to negotiate our "alone/do not interrupt me" time in a nice way with our loved ones.....(including when my opinion about dinnner can be asked and then ignored:D)

THEY probably feel badly too....for DOING the inconsiderate behavior....and they actually may not only be jealous of the time we give to other things but the fact that we're so good in our hyperfocussing ways that we do it -- and they're NOT....:(

I don't think they REALLY want us to multi-task.....(then they would be jealous of those talents as well)....I think they just want attention darnit..and they want it NOW:D And in my opinion, let's let it be known that they shall have it.....:)

When you finish the hyperocus, and you say "yes dear, what did you want"...the normal response is "too late now!!".

Was it too late, no. What it was, was as pointed out; they want their attention right at that moment they asked, and I didn't give it.

After a while; you end up being worn down, knowing that the joy of hyperfocusing may be met with the pain of interruption. And though it has been suggested to me; I'm NEVER going to hyperfocus on the dishes; mowing the lawn; of folding socks...never!!

You can now call my the Closet hyperfocuser, never to be seen in public.

Sleepz.

Fair enough, Sleepz, fair enough!.....so should we now call you "Sleepz in the Closet"???? :D :D :D

I think I'm your long lost adopted brother, Sleepzalot. :D :D :D

Paul,

Welcome home brother :) I've missed you to.

Sleepz.

The thing that so sucks about being me is I see everything from both sides and have to have set lines to draw so I know where I need to be..................in other words, while I also hate to be distracted while hyperfocusing or whatever, I also know the person I love isnt a trivial being or has trivial needs........I need to work on concideration as much as the other person. The bottom line is we need to agree to discuss not snap, to apologize directly when we do wrong and see it, to give clear bounderies (like hey, Im starting to work on my website. Ive set an alarm for three hours from now. If something that requires my attention quickly yell, beep what ever fits here, if not write it down leave me a message send smoke signals what ever fits here too, and i will gladly deal with it when I come up for air.) Let's be honest, how many men have come up behind their wife, gf or significant other and grabbed at her, kissed on her while she was a)on the phone with Rabbi Horowitz, b) cooking (usually bent over basting something), c) cleaning the cat box, d)ironing her uniforms for next week, e) deeply thinking about how to manage the money, work, clean house, have relations, go to all the soccer matches, get that promotion.................?? been spurned and gotten ticked off.

If any off you say "not me" youre fibbing and we all know it.

Awful silence after reading Crissy's post......

Sleepz

That's honest Sleepz...thanks....

Crissy: I was on the phone with Rabbi Horowitz the other day....how did you know???:D:D

No doubt, i agree with JAnine. I myself find it hard to control myself . I do have a steady though and he thinks it's great. U just need to find someone who u can be exclusive with and make sure she is someone who can keep up with u in that area. Won't do u any good if u hook up with someone who has no interest in romance as u put it. U would just be asking for trouble.

In response to "The Love Languages" I just read that book and there is only one primary love language out of the five that we can have, not two. Paul's is obviously Physical Touch and he is obviously not getting his love tank filled at home. As a Christian believer I think that cheating on your wife causes you to break fellowship with God and that is what makes you feel frustrated and broken as you described in your post Paul. I hope you can reconcile your relationship with your wife and with God. Try out the book "The Love Languages" and see if your wife will learn to love you in your language. You might have to learn her language to though. It's a two way street. You say you love her, I hope you realize that takes action and commitment and not just emotion. I know its difficult having ADHD and its unique challenges I am easily distracted too especially from my purpose sometimes. I have found that a connection to God really puts the focus in the right place. Maybe its time you asked for His guidence in your life. Good luck Paul, you'll be in my prayers today.

Welcome Emtstaff to the forums! Glad to have your participation; why don't you introduce yourself in the new members section?

Having said that, I hate to say it, but my response to your first post is a bunch of disagreements:

Originally posted by emtstaff
In response to "The Love Languages" I just read that book and there is only one primary love language out of the five that we can have, not two.

I read the book... I don't agree with you, it says in the book you can have more than one.

Originally posted by emtstaff
Paul's is obviously Physical Touch and he is obviously not getting his love tank filled at home.

I disagree with you again. My wife is very physical and touchy with me... much more so than I would like at times.

Originally posted by emtstaff
As a Christian believer I think that cheating on your wife causes you to break fellowship with God and that is what makes you feel frustrated and broken as you described in your post Paul. I hope you can reconcile your relationship with your wife and with God.

Neither my wife nor I worship God as you see Him, so no offense, but I will not be trying to reconcile with Him. I am indeed trying to reconcile with my wife, however.

Originally posted by emtstaff
Try out the book "The Love Languages" and see if your wife will learn to love you in your language.

I have been unable to identify myself as being any of the five suggested languages. The times I have felt the most loved in life were merely when people accepted me for who I am, and allowed me to be who I want to be. That wasn't on the list.

Originally posted by emtstaff
You might have to learn her language to though. It's a two way street.

She has two languages: Quality Time and Gifts. I know how to give to her in both of these but neither is how I want to receive love.

Originally posted by emtstaff
You say you love her, I hope you realize that takes action and commitment and not just emotion. I know its difficult having ADHD and its unique challenges I am easily distracted too especially from my purpose sometimes.

I have been giving her action and commitment on this for the last four years... we have come very close to divorce on many occasions, our commitment to each other and the actions we have taken to work on our relationship are what are responsible for us being together today...

Originally posted by emtstaff
I have found that a connection to God really puts the focus in the right place. Maybe its time you asked for His guidence in your life. Good luck Paul, you'll be in my prayers today.

Despite the fact that I am not Catholic or Christian, I actually DO appreciate the sentiment behind praying for another... thank you. And it is great to have you here at the forum, like I say, sorry that my first response to you has to be peppered with so many disagreements...