View Full Version : Somatic and visceral consciousness


mildadhd
07-01-15, 06:14 PM
Help

Random Questions (not conclusions)

-Visceral consciousness?

-Somatic consciousness?

-Somatic sensory connects to visceral homeostatic?

-Temple Grandin's squeeze machine laying down, verses, Temple Grandin's concept squeeze jacket standing up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnU1uqZVqwo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzDQiBVlaR4



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mildadhd
07-01-15, 08:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X86nP4HYRbQ

mildadhd
07-03-15, 11:29 PM
Little by little I am really getting interested in Polyvagal Theory.

There is so much to learn in this interview link.

Might take me awhile.

But I am getting the layhuman just.

Thanks

"..I use the word neuroception to respect and acknowledge that our nervous system, without awareness, is evaluating features of risk in the environment."

-Dr. Stephen Porges



http://files.nicabm.com/Trauma2012/Porges/NICABM-Porges-2012.pdf

Lunacie
07-04-15, 09:31 AM
I don't understand what you're asking.

Are you wondering what others know about these things?

Are you wondering what others think about these things?

As far as applying compression either lying down or standing up,

it's probably a matter of personal preference.

This isn't something that my autistic granddaughter likes at all.

I've never been able to sleep with the blankets tucked in around me.

Don't like clothing that is too tight. Hugs are nice but not too long.

mildadhd
07-05-15, 01:31 AM
As a child, I craved to feel the comfort of being held, but I would pull away when people hugged me.

When hugged, an overwhelming tidal wave of sensation flowed through me.

At times, I preferred such intense stimulation to the point of pain, rather than a ccept ordinary hugs.

On the Ayres Checklist for Tactile Defensiveness ( 1979), I had 9 out of 15 symptoms by age 10 years.

Whenever anyone touched me, I stiffened, flinched, and pulled away.

This approach-avoidance characteristic endured for years during my childhood..


(Full article recommended)


..We have observed two basic ways that children and adults approach the machine.

The pressure-seeking type immediately will start using the machine, and use it readily with little encouragement.

Children with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder typically fit in this category.

In contrast, some autistic children have a high degree of factual defensiveness, so that it is difficult for them to overcome their initial aversion to touch; they will require more encouragement..

http://www.grandin.com/inc/squeeze.html





Heavy blankets really help me sleep, but I never tuck them in.

Here is a really great article called, "Calming Effects of Deep Touch Pressure in Patients with Autistic Disorder, College Students, and Animals" by Dr.Grandin, to help promote discussion.



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SB_UK
07-05-15, 04:13 AM
The parasympathetic system is responsible for ... activities that occur when the body is at rest, especially after eating.

So we can control excess parasympathetic flow by eating less ?

SB_UK
07-05-15, 04:31 AM
Can't stand the weight of blankets, the feeling of restriction etc -
the use of blankets at all

'princess and the pea' ADDer HSP but above as below.

SB_UK
07-05-15, 04:37 AM
Somatic consciousness (ADDer HSP sensitivity)

empathic/emotional sensitivity
systematizing/moral sensitivity
sensory sensitivity

|
controls
v

Visceral consciousness
Autonomic nervous system

Stress from sensitivities triggers SNS -> SNS resistance

Stress caused by

Sensory sensitiivity - immersed in too much information (eg fireworks,busy places)
empathic/emotional sensitivity - immersed in anti-social human interaction
systematizing/moral sensitivity - immersed in words which mean nothing, ideas which're fundamentally immoral eg anything to do with money,government,legal systems,war,ownership,personal profit,pollution,unsustainability,materialism ... ...

-*-

Confusing though - excess SNS -> SNS resistance, failure to activate PNS through being set in alert mode should mean PNS underactive.

Sympathetic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathetic_nervous_system) and parasympathetic divisions typically function in opposition to each other. This natural opposition is better understood as complementary (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/complement) in nature rather than antagonistic (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/antagonistic). For an analogy, one may think of the sympathetic division as the police responders and the parasympathetic division as the court system.

So - SNS suffers wild swings.
PNS - designed to operate more slowly and so not to operate in a world in which the individual is subject to an unrelenting series of SNS provoking stimuli.

General point
That the SNS (through our excess sensitivities being triggered) isn't meant to be accessed as often as we do.
That somatic consciousness breaks visceral consciousness.
And that a brokn visceral consciousness (obesity,asthma) gives rise to many diseases.

mildadhd
07-05-15, 04:37 PM
Thanks

I am not sure yet.

But I am learning a lot.

I totally get hating being restricted, blankets tucked in (makes my toes almost cramped up just thinking about it), almost pinned during play, etc..


But if my blankets are too lite, I find it hard to sleep.

Fascinating discussion.

visceral temperament + somatic temperament ?


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mildadhd
07-05-15, 04:49 PM
I don't doubt anyone else's experiences.

I much prefer heavy blankets.

And I am really curious to understand the neurophysiology of the different possibilities better.

Research on autistic children indicates that they prefer proximal sensory stimulation such as touching, tasting, and smelling to distal sensory stimulation of hearing and seeing (Kootz et al. 1981).

Autistic children will often seek out deep pressure sens ations.

At various lecture meetings of parents of autistic individuals, parents have reported to me various types of pressure-seeking behavior of their offspring, such as wrapping arms and legs in elastic bandages, sleeping under many blankets even during warm weather, and getting under mattresses.

In my case, l used to crawl under sofa cushions and have my sister sit on them.

A high functioning autistic woman stated, "I need heavy blankets on me to sleep well, or else my muscles won't calm down."

Deep touch stimulation is beneficial to normal babies (Barnard and Brazelton 1990, Gunzenhauser 1990).

Institutionalized babies who received supplemental tactile stimulation, mainly deep touch pressure, developed more normally (Provence and Lipton 1962).

Premature babies who receive stroking and tightly bound swaddling also are reported to show definite benefits (Anderson 1986, Field et al. 1986, Lieb et al. 1980).

http://www.grandin.com/inc/squeeze.html

Lunacie
07-05-15, 06:56 PM
As I understand it, every autistic child is different.

Some cannot tolerate sounds and hugs, while others may be oblivious to sound
and craves hugs.

As they say, if you've met one child or person with autism, then you've met
ONE child or person with autism.

My granddaughter is unique in that would until recently eat anything, while many autistic kids have a very limited palate.

Also she makes good eye contact, which is usually very difficult for autistic kids.

If she initiates conversation or touching, she's great with it.
If someone else initiates those things, she closes down or pushes them away.

mildadhd
07-06-15, 12:24 AM
As I understand it, every autistic child is different.

Some cannot tolerate sounds and hugs, while others may be oblivious to sound
and craves hugs.

As they say, if you've met one child or person with autism, then you've met
ONE child or person with autism.

My granddaughter is unique in that would until recently eat anything, while many autistic kids have a very limited palate.

Also she makes good eye contact, which is usually very difficult for autistic kids.

If she initiates conversation or touching, she's great with it.
If someone else initiates those things, she closes down or pushes them away.

There seems to be more than one way to respond, depending on the individuals experiences and inherited temperamental sensitivities.

What makes Autistic people Autistic?

What makes Autism different than ADHD?

Why do we prefer untucked unrestricted blankets?

Why does SB_UK prefer no blanket?

Why does Peripheral prefer heavy blanket?

Hypersensitive visceral temperament?

Hypersensitive somatic temperament?


P?.

mildadhd
07-06-15, 12:49 AM
Hypersensitive within brain emotional-affective visceral temperament?

Hypersensitive within brain sensory-affective somatic temperament?

Hypersensitive bodily (internal) visceral temperament?

Hypersensitive bodily (external) somatic temperament?

I wish I could find my copy of Dr. Damasio's,"Self Comes To Mind: Constructing the Conscious Brain"


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dvdnvwls
07-06-15, 01:41 AM
There seems to be more than one way to respond, depending on the individuals experiences and inherited temperamental sensitivities.

I'm not sure it's even possible to say we know what it depends on.

SB_UK
07-06-15, 03:44 AM
That's interesting.

That the ADDer's neurone {{{period}}} is more sensitive ?

All neural systems would then be affected.

What determines whether a nerve fires ?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Action_potential_vert.png/525px-Action_potential_vert.png

Threshold potential.

We often talk about ADDers having low boredom thresholds.
Higher thresholds before we can pay attention.

Is it that we have higher thresholds or lower thresholds ie feel the pain of paying attention to tedious things much more acutely - requiring a much higher level of reward to overcome the pain of a lower pain threshold.

Back to an old favourite on ADDForums.

In 1952, they published their theory of how action potentials (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_potentials) are transmitted in a joint paper ... ...

What'd be pain to an ADDer ?
Persistent exposure to stimulus eg during depolarization - the nerve'd die if exposed to chronic stimulation.

-*-

Back to genome -> neurone pattern of evolution.

Evolution by genome - evolutionary past - the primitive reward system.
Evolution by neural networks - eg 'quality' as our evolutionary present - the higher reward system.

Arbuthnot appreciated the 'higher' things in life.

Still though the general point rests that the point of mind is to know morality not to know Klingon in calculus whilst suspended upside down on a cord above the Grand Canyon.

-*-

How'd a nerve become more sensitive ?

Abnormalities in neuronal excitability in ALS and diabetes

-*-

What do I think ?

From previously - the body can operate over carbs or ketone bodies.

Ketone bodies operate via the histome to 'shut down' the genome (HDAC inhibitors) - and we know that ketone bodies reduce neuronal excitability (use of John Radcliffe diet of ketogenic diet in epilepsy).

So - ADDers represent a ketone body honed (ie to not eat much) type which demostrates -
neural excitabilty
somatic excitability
visceral excitability
SENSITIVITY

-- when ADDers eat more than a small amount of low GI veggies ??

The soluble fibre in the low GI veggies feed the gut microbiome which generates everything we need - including butyrate, which workd alongside b-hydroxybutyrate from ketogenic metabolism to cement the ketogenic post-genomic/post-materialistic state.

With heavy emphasis on melanin being able to produce SCFAs through light (gamma radiation) exposure.
And the sun and moon both radiate gamma radiation- can't be shielded from it and are exposed to it constantly.

-*-

That's a neat story - the basic to wikiP/thrifty gene hypothesis ?
A neural metabolic not genomic metabolic solution.

SB_UK
07-06-15, 03:56 AM
So - we appear to be observing - in ADDers.



Tendency to low EEG daydreaming - low energy usage.
Increased sensitivity - could be a feature which is exacerbated (more sensitive) by a carb diet
Increased obesity - widely published - generally considered as surprising.
Difficulty paying attention - increased sensitivity would distract from limited attention.
Tendency to morality - increased strength of pain from cogntive dissonance -<- new.


That's interesting - simply increased neural sensitivity would mean increased pain from cognitive dissonance which'd mean we'd be predisposed towards generating 'wisdom' mind ie mind of morality.

-*-

What's the solution ?

Environmental solution.
[ a ] Stop forcing people to be immoral by requiring money for food/shelter.
--- and ---
[ b ] Transfer education from amoral systematizing into moral systematizing.

So - we'd note absence in 'killer' addictive chemicals from cigarettes to processed carbs available for purchase - as nothing would any longer be sold.
We'd find that stress would decrease normalizing appetite (no more comfort foods of high sugar + high fat --> activating the opioid (pain relief) network).
That proper foods wouldn't be moreish (moreish -> high GI, high sweet, high umami, high salt).

That choice of one's path in life would be based on what one finds genuinely personally rewarding ie no stress from having to pursue a 'just for money' path.
That success would be measured in personal rational moral desire to take part and not the level of external (money) reward which one can steal from one's fellow man in the disciline one chooses.

Normalized appetite + veggie intake + fasting -> ketogenic metabolism (see healthy monks (alternate day fasting) of Athos who have high levels of acetone in exhaled air).

Ketogenic metabolism -> normalized (not hyper-excitable) neural function.

Then just 'think' through the lovely daydream - mostly though - life with the dog, in silence, in the sun - at least post-wisdom.
Important - pre-wisdom - to develop the higher (quality) and not the lower (materialism) reward system.

Post-wisdom - immersion in the sensory world is sufficient to activate our reward system sufficiently -
ie we have nothing left to prove and no 'hunger' (whether it be materialism or quality) left to satisfy.

-*-

So ... ... an environmental solution for prevention is immeasurably better than cure which simply rests on a shift from global capitalism to global voluntaryism and placing morality as a key stipulation into education.

What is the moral aspect of what I'm learning ? Learnt immorality (eg the legal system) breaks the individual and society - where individual freedom occurs through knowing morality (wisdom) - when the time (post-human (materilistic) lifecycle - growth, pair-bond and procreation) comes.

SB_UK
07-06-15, 06:25 AM
What's missing ?

Role of pair-bond and procreation in human life-cycle.
These occur pre-wisdom and are simply part of our lifecycle ie material world reward to ensure we pair-bond and procreate.
These aren't intended to be conducted post-wisdom.

So - overall - the development of morality mind whilst undergoing the materialistic (growth, pair-bond and procreation) non freewill associated lifecycle ... ... upon completion and after a life in pursuit of morality - morality mind/wisdom is attained - a state of mind of freedom in which the individual is free from needing his/her reward system activated <- the intended definition of 'freedom' in man's pursuit of freedom.

So neatly answers the following questions:
[1] Sting - if you love someone set them free.
[2] Procreation (see previous thread - 'do people with minds habe children?' isn't a rational but a programmed behaviour)
[3] That a meaning to life is defined (42 approx. years) even though the rational mind cannot see how learning could 'know' oneself happy -<- it's not that at all. Learning doesn't - it's morality which, in time, sets us free.
[4] That under the above mechanism of achieving freedom - we can escape disease and out both pharmaceutical and holistic health care out of business.
For prevention is immeasurably better than cure.
Let food [organic,small amount] be thy medicine.
[5] Eliminates the need for money - no mechanism of money can work - it operates over a flawed (materialism) premise ie the premise which we're seeking through morality to overcome.
[6] Why Athos monks are so healthy (combination of fair society,little food intake)
[7] Why (tendency to aerobic metabolism) - the force (midichlorians) win ie ketone bodies are pro-mitochondrial and consitent with healthy ageing (see Athos again - avg age of Athos monks VERY high with no health care, care in old age required).

-*-

So growth -> maintainance life cycle.
Representing carb -> ketone bodies.

ADDer - predisposed to wisdom through (see cognitive dissonance argument above) - increased sensitivity of neurone.

Increased sensitivity of neurone.

SB_UK
07-06-15, 07:34 AM
GREECE I (Hippocrates)
[4] That under the above mechanism of achieving freedom - we can escape disease and out both pharmaceutical and holistic health care out of business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the intended basis to medicine
For prevention is immeasurably better than cure.
Let food [organic,small amount] be thy medicine.GREECE II (Yesterday's election)
[5] Eliminates the need for money - no mechanism of money can work - it operates over a flawed (materialism) premise ie the premise which we're seeking through morality to overcome.
GREECE III (Mount Athos)
[6] Why Athos monks are so healthy (combination of fair society,little food intake)
3 strikes and you're out.

Who ?
Money.

A world without war (the intended point to the ENTIRE Eurozone project) will come from a shift from global capitalism to global voluntaryism.

What is wisdom? (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wisdom/)**

After an unrelenting pursuit of knowledge/morality - the acquisition of a mind which may be characterized as having enforced moral consistency.
The individual may then be said to have acquired wisdom - a state which is reward in itself - no further activation of the reward system whether by materialism [nucleotidal genomic reward system] or informational relay [neural connectomic reward system] is required.

** What is Heaven ? What is happiness ? What is freedom ? What is good ? What is the meaning of life ?

SB_UK
07-06-15, 08:27 AM
So what's missing ?

What is love ?

for mother (baby)
for dog (child)
for wife (pair-bond formation)
for child (procreation)
for 'fundamental substance' (stage wisdom)

A series of programmed 'loves' which take us from birth to re-birth.

So - all you need *is* love.

-*-

Recent studies in neuroscience have indicated that as people fall in love, the brain consistently releases a certain set of chemicals, including the neurotransmitter hormones, dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin, the same compounds released by amphetamine, stimulating the brain's pleasure center and leading to side effects such as increased heart rate, loss of appetite and sleep, and an intense feeling of excitement.

Love -> amphetamine

To 'Love' thy neighour as a precursor to A 'Love' supreme operating via the same mechanisms as amphetamine

- which we all know here - when the drugs work - permit us to engage.

An intrinsically social motivation (social species emergence) to ADDer.
ADDer's don't do competition where the loser smarts his revenge.

Beating people at anything conveys no meaningful reward.

SB_UK
07-06-15, 09:43 AM
Somatic Consciousness
Know Morality [cf redefine educational schemes to teach systems which demonstrably improve life]


for 'fundamental substance' (stage wisdom)

for 'religious studies' (stage structured natural sciences (systematizing) courtesy of the philosophical construct (mind) in context of the social sciences (morality) whilst developing the arts,information technology (reward system - quality))

Note no legal $ystems or economic $ystems need be retained <- sub-domains of History.