View Full Version : Yoga pants unite! The objectivication of women.


sarahsweets
07-19-15, 05:53 AM
Ok, this involves my 15 year old daughter and her school but the bigger picture involves how women and girls are expected to behave. If it really needs to get moved to the kiddie section so be it...

My daughters school has an elusive dress code. They dont allow tank tops with thin straps and they have rules regarding how short shorts can be, but that is also open for interpretation. The style has been ( for me as well) shorter jeans style shorts. Above the knee but not up the as*. Becca and her friends noticed at the end of last year that only certain girls were getting sent home for a violation namly, heavier girls in the same shorts as their thinner peers. One of her friends had this happen to her. Of course the school would never own up to this and its always a subjective rule but one of her friends stood up to the school and the girls in her group had like a "shorts in". They all wore what they would wear out of school and I think because the school did not want to fuss with them the last week of school, it was overlooked.

She told me now that this year they may ban yoga pants. YOGA PANTS! Because they are form fitting around the backside. I dont know about you guys, but most women I know including myself love their yoga pants. They are super comfy, fit well, and yes most peoples butts look nice.
This new ban is because..its too distracting to the boys.
She was told that at one point. SERIOUSLY??? Youre telling me that the boys cant stop looking at my daughters butt so they are doing poorly in school? Since when did it become the responsibility of my daughter and other girls to change themselves to make the environment better for the boys to learn?
How about an assembly on how not to objectify women, and judge women based on their appearance? How about the boys learn to not stare at the girls body parts? How about some education on why the rape culture is so pervasive? How about an assembly on how a woman can do any job she chooses no matter what she looks like.

What is the solution? A head to toe hazmat suit? A burka? A potato sack?
It makes me furious. I get why short shorts, tube tops, etc are banned. A girl doesnt need to be showing skin per se at school, but not because the boys would notice...because its not the beach or the boardwalk, its school.
I wonder if the school is going to let me take her on a shopping spree so we can outfit her to their liking?

I wonder if the boys joking about who they had sex with and what kind of drugs were used is as bad as her yoga pants. Her male principals and admin seem to think that these evil girls are out to steal an education from those poor dumb old boys.

And how fair is this to boys and men? Are they saying that men are so stupid and horn-dogish that they cant learn or work in an environment with attractive women? The bias extends to them too. Not all men and boys are dogs, there are men in this world who respect and value women.

This is just a cross section of the bigger picture. No matter what people say in words, we must be doomed to be judged by how we look, and what we wear; not what we say and how we think. And if anything bad happens to us, its our fault.

I already told becca that if they send her home or bring up yoga pants I will turn this town into a circus. I will organize whatever protest I can, call the media and make their lives miserable. I have tried to raise my girls based on their integrity, not how pretty they are and this wonderful education she is getting is undoing all my hard work.

Abi
07-19-15, 09:04 AM
I feel objectified when I wear gym shorts and have women checking out my legs.

midnightstar
07-19-15, 11:27 AM
Not sure why the school wants to blame the girls, it's sexist. It goes both ways - yes the girls needs to take SOME responsibility for what they wear but the boys also need to learn that girls are not "objects".

Circleinthesea
07-19-15, 11:50 AM
GAH! School dress codes are the worst!!! Is it possible to bring forth your concerns with the school board before it becomes policy? It may only be a baby step, but it may open a dialogue for a better written and more body-inclusive dress code. :D

Lizzie80
07-19-15, 12:27 PM
Ok, this involves my 15 year old daughter and her school but the bigger picture involves how women and girls are expected to behave. If it really needs to get moved to the kiddie section so be it...

My daughters school has an elusive dress code. They dont allow tank tops with thin straps and they have rules regarding how short shorts can be, but that is also open for interpretation. The style has been ( for me as well) shorter jeans style shorts. Above the knee but not up the as*. Becca and her friends noticed at the end of last year that only certain girls were getting sent home for a violation namly, heavier girls in the same shorts as their thinner peers. One of her friends had this happen to her. Of course the school would never own up to this and its always a subjective rule but one of her friends stood up to the school and the girls in her group had like a "shorts in". They all wore what they would wear out of school and I think because the school did not want to fuss with them the last week of school, it was overlooked.

She told me now that this year they may ban yoga pants. YOGA PANTS! Because they are form fitting around the backside. I dont know about you guys, but most women I know including myself love their yoga pants. They are super comfy, fit well, and yes most peoples butts look nice.
This new ban is because..its too distracting to the boys.
She was told that at one point. SERIOUSLY??? Youre telling me that the boys cant stop looking at my daughters butt so they are doing poorly in school? Since when did it become the responsibility of my daughter and other girls to change themselves to make the environment better for the boys to learn?
How about an assembly on how not to objectify women, and judge women based on their appearance? How about the boys learn to not stare at the girls body parts? How about some education on why the rape culture is so pervasive? How about an assembly on how a woman can do any job she chooses no matter what she looks like.

What is the solution? A head to toe hazmat suit? A burka? A potato sack?
It makes me furious. I get why short shorts, tube tops, etc are banned. A girl doesnt need to be showing skin per se at school, but not because the boys would notice...because its not the beach or the boardwalk, its school.
I wonder if the school is going to let me take her on a shopping spree so we can outfit her to their liking?

I wonder if the boys joking about who they had sex with and what kind of drugs were used is as bad as her yoga pants. Her male principals and admin seem to think that these evil girls are out to steal an education from those poor dumb old boys.

And how fair is this to boys and men? Are they saying that men are so stupid and horn-dogish that they cant learn or work in an environment with attractive women? The bias extends to them too. Not all men and boys are dogs, there are men in this world who respect and value women.

This is just a cross section of the bigger picture. No matter what people say in words, we must be doomed to be judged by how we look, and what we wear; not what we say and how we think. And if anything bad happens to us, its our fault.

I already told becca that if they send her home or bring up yoga pants I will turn this town into a circus. I will organize whatever protest I can, call the media and make their lives miserable. I have tried to raise my girls based on their integrity, not how pretty they are and this wonderful education she is getting is undoing all my hard work.

I think I could write a book of a response on this, but I won't. :D As a heavy-set woman who was a big child as well, I can say that shorts were definitely something challenging just to dare and put on from an emotional standpoint (teasing). Assuming these girls would feel like I did back then (and still do as a grown woman with big legs), a principal sending them home for looking "inappropriate" could add layers of shame totally unnecessary and unhealthy to the mind.

If I could have a wee rant here...boys/men are going to look at a girl's body regardless of what she wears. Period. Skinny girls, muscular girls, big girls, doesn't matter. These are teenagers, meaning at one time in our human history (and still true in some places), mating naturally starts to happen now. I am of the entirely personal opinion that a girl or woman should put on what makes her feel good, feel pretty, feel comfortable, or whatever the hell other reason she feels. Not to an obscene limit, but within normal reason. To hell with whether or not it stirs up the hormones. And hey, news flash to the administration of schools- wake up and realize that sometimes, girls look at other girls and boys look at other boys. What are you going to do, dress everyone in a giant potato sack? Even then people won't stop thinking about the opposite sex, because their BIOLOGICAL urges will drive most of them to do so. That's right...no matter how we dress or don't dress, we're going to want to mate starting at puberty.

But then I'm guessing the admin of most schools would like to do away with puberty and all that messy biology stuff and just get right to the moneymaking goals of young adulthood. Once the tots are done with the cute and unencumbered pre-puberty stage, that is. Life doesn't work that way, though. I think girls should where want they want. If anything, archaic ideas about what females should be doing to hide their bodies or de-sexualize themselves in shame ought to be banned, not a particular article of clothing. The Madonna/wh0rE complex that I believe casts a very long shadow over the minds of many (myself included) ought to be thrown out the window, not the right to choose what one wants to wear themselves. Not saying I'm right, but that is my opinion. Even if a girl dresses to show off the best of her body parts, even if her thought process has sexuality in mind, who's to say that is wrong? Who's to say that, considering our biological imperative will be to procreate (despite our modern world and all its logical imperatives otherwise- at that age), such an action on the part of either sex isn't totally normal?

Luvmybully
07-19-15, 02:41 PM
Since when did it become the responsibility of my daughter and other girls to change themselves to make the environment better for the boys to learn?
How about an assembly on how not to objectify women, and judge women based on their appearance? How about the boys learn to not stare at the girls body parts? How about some education on why the rape culture is so pervasive? How about an assembly on how a woman can do any job she chooses no matter what she looks like.


And how fair is this to boys and men? Are they saying that men are so stupid and horn-dogish that they cant learn or work in an environment with attractive women? The bias extends to them too. Not all men and boys are dogs, there are men in this world who respect and value women.






:yes:

And how about teaching boys PERSONAL responsibility? As in, YOU are responsible for your OWN behavior. Instead of asking the girls to be resposible for everyone?

And I so totally agree it gives boys no credit whatsoever. YES, they actually are able to learn, even when their hormones are raging and they are surrounded by girls.

This topic has always infuriated me!

Luvmybully
07-19-15, 02:44 PM
I think I could write a book of a response on this, but I won't. :D As a heavy-set woman who was a big child as well, I can say that shorts were definitely something challenging just to dare and put on from an emotional standpoint (teasing). Assuming these girls would feel like I did back then (and still do as a grown woman with big legs), a principal sending them home for looking "inappropriate" could add layers of shame totally unnecessary and unhealthy to the mind.

If I could have a wee rant here...boys/men are going to look at a girl's body regardless of what she wears. Period. Skinny girls, muscular girls, big girls, doesn't matter. These are teenagers, meaning at one time in our human history (and still true in some places), mating naturally starts to happen now. I am of the entirely personal opinion that a girl or woman should put on what makes her feel good, feel pretty, feel comfortable, or whatever the hell other reason she feels. Not to an obscene limit, but within normal reason. To hell with whether or not it stirs up the hormones. And hey, news flash to the administration of schools- wake up and realize that sometimes, girls look at other girls and boys look at other boys. What are you going to do, dress everyone in a giant potato sack? Even then people won't stop thinking about the opposite sex, because their BIOLOGICAL urges will drive most of them to do so. That's right...no matter how we dress or don't dress, we're going to want to mate starting at puberty.

But then I'm guessing the admin of most schools would like to do away with puberty and all that messy biology stuff and just get right to the moneymaking goals of young adulthood. Once the tots are done with the cute and unencumbered pre-puberty stage, that is. Life doesn't work that way, though. I think girls should where want they want. If anything, archaic ideas about what females should be doing to hide their bodies or de-sexualize themselves in shame ought to be banned, not a particular article of clothing. The Madonna/wh0rE complex that I believe casts a very long shadow over the minds of many (myself included) ought to be thrown out the window, not the right to choose what one wants to wear themselves. Not saying I'm right, but that is my opinion. Even if a girl dresses to show off the best of her body parts, even if her thought process has sexuality in mind, who's to say that is wrong? Who's to say that, considering our biological imperative will be to procreate (despite our modern world and all its logical imperatives otherwise- at that age), such an action on the part of either sex isn't totally normal?

My computer is acting up, I apologize if this posts more than once...


but VERY WELL SAID!

salleh
07-19-15, 04:40 PM
.....I wore school uniforms for 12 years ....ugly ones too .....brown and white checks to grade school and turquise blue, brown and white plaid with a brown collarless jacket and white shirt to high school .....thank g** that it was an all girls school ! and the skirts had to reach the floor when we knelt down ....of course we just rolled the skirts up at the waist ...


......I think uniforms are a great idea in general those ....not ugly ones ...mind you, and a choice of a few different things ...and for both boys and girls ....the thing is ....the cost of clothes for kids is so high, and competition involving clothes can cost a fortune, and if the mom of kid isn''t very clever in making do with little money....lots of hurt feelings and feeling of inadequacy because he or she can't afford those all important brand names ....

......I also think it's not a great use of a kids mind ....worrying what they're going to wear every single school morning .....with a uniform .....and I mean actual uniform clothes....anyway ....you have to wear a uniform .....you get up, you curse at it , you put it on and you go to school .....all the games kids play about clothes rendered invalid .....and they get to grouse about them together ....

...a few "free dress" days ...and you can show off your style.....and you have after school and the weekend .....to express yourself in fashion .....

....it would be one big thing less to distract kids from actually learning something in school .....

....Not to mention .....the parents would save a bundle .....


.....but since that's not going to happen...too sensible ....too "un-American" ....I am fully on your side about this Sarah ......why I myself was just personally ranting about this very thing on facebook the other day ......

.....I can see banning 4 in spike heels, ( for anyone, actually the damage they do to your spine arghhhh) ....and strapless anything .....( too risky) and shorts that don't cover the b*** cheeks, ah no , .....( not to mention, sticking to the chair in hot months !) .....boys gotta have their pants waist over their b*** cheeks ....( srsly, the other day I saw a boy whose pants were actually below his butt !! and belted ! ....almost fell down laughing right there on the sidewalk ....and I do think that in areas, banning gang colors is essential .....


....but yoga pants ??? aw grow up .....they're made of thick fabric, they are completely opaque, and cover the legs in lengths from below the knee to the ground ....they just fit nicely ....( personally I live in them .... gotta show off the one feature that still looks good ....mine are tight between the waist and the knee, flare after that ...)


......anyway ....touched a chord .....yoga pants ! really! .......stupid .....

Skyf@ll
07-19-15, 05:15 PM
I feel objectified when I wear gym shorts and have women checking out my legs.

It's a hard life being a man...

Skyf@ll
07-19-15, 05:22 PM
On a serious note though...some yoga pants are actually see-through....eye jail bait....maybe they have a point!

dvdnvwls
07-19-15, 05:32 PM
Since when did it become the responsibility of my daughter and other girls to change themselves to make the environment better for the boys to learn?

This. Thank you.

Skyf@ll
07-19-15, 05:37 PM
Not picking any sides of anything....but most schools have a set dress code that all students must abide by-what they do outside of this is of no concern of the school.

This is the case for most work environments as well....

Lizzie80
07-19-15, 06:35 PM
Not picking any sides of anything....but most schools have a set dress code that all students must abide by-what they do outside of this is of no concern of the school.

This is the case for most work environments as well....

But as SarahSweets pointed out, the "set" dress code actually wasn't set- they applied different standards on what was acceptable shorts length to thin vs. heavier girls. If I understand what she's getting at (and just knowing how society thinks), the thin girls looked cute or at least acceptable in the shorter shorts to the school's admin or whomever was making this decision, while the heavy girls weren't so "acceptable". I'll fess up right here, even though I'm a big woman in a society that does NOT generally like big women, I've been judgmental about larger women wearing the exact same brand and style of clothing as a thin counterpoint. Yes, that's right, the big girl herself has said on more than one occasion that certain clothing only looks right on some body types. Keep in mind that I am the last person on earth you'll ever find justifying the prejudice against heavier people, quite to the contrary. Now, I still struggle over this on many levels. Visually, to my Americanized eyes, certain clothing continues to look better to me on certain body types. However, at my current age I have reached a point for myself and towards others where I'm going to wear shorts, tank tops, sleeveless sundresses and other stuff that I still think looks better on a thin woman. Why? Comfort, for one thing. I'm not willing to broil in 100-degree, 100% humidity Washington, D.C. days in clothing designed to cover my big-woman-flaws. I also am no longer willing to judge another woman for what she wears. I won't do it publicly, and I'll even try to check myself privately. It's an evolution, and it's made yet harder by exterior vocalizations about what's appropriate for someone of my body type to wear. I wore a tank top and light-colored linen pants on the 4th of July publicly, and although I'm big, no one gave a (public) rat's *****. They were probably more worried about how they looked, if they were worried about appearance at all. I think sometimes we overestimate how much people think about how we look. With the choice they're making, it gives the impression that "everyone" is looking/talking about a girl and/or how she looks, when that is probably not true.

The (anti-)sexualization argument around women's clothing extends to underage girls, too. Has since time began, I'm guessing. We're all going to have varying opinions on this, and opinions which likely have or will eventually evolve. I don't particularly like being able to see what color thong a girl is wearing in the office...sadly, I often can. Their jeans or pants are cut low, their top is cut higher, you get the picture. Whatever, it's not worth sending someone home IMHO. Seeing the crack of a man's tush ala Dan Ackroyd's plumber skit from SNL happens in the office, too. However, I've never seen the "Dans" of the world sent home to change their jeans. Thong girls, on the other hand, I have seen get the "tsk, tsk" talk about their inappropriate clothing and they're sent home to change clothes. To make matters more complex, the bigger, older, or less attractive (by societal standards) the woman is, the more likely she is to get "in trouble" like this in an office setting. How many men vs. women are in managerial positions - or which sex holds the highest position - can also change what the word "acceptable" means. Double standards abound in the adult world, too.

The other argument (I think) is whether we should ever attribute a boy's willful failure of attention in class or on-the-job to how a girl looks/what a girl is wearing. I think this is a no-brainer (IMHO no, the girl isn't responsible for a boy's failure, period). However, people will disagree with me on that, and that's perfectly fine. No one argument is entirely right, none entirely wrong, everyone's points have some validity.

All of this is why I disagree with school admin sending girls home over this stuff. Cruel and shortsighted as other kids can be, I sincerely think in all but very extreme obscenity issues, the girls are better off being supported by the school's staff, not sent home to change. If the school wants to be really freaking radical, why not hold a giant assembly and tell all, "No one in the real world gives much of a thought to how you look or what you wear. If they value that over who you are, they're not worth much of your time. Also, we're not going to send the message that it's wrong for a larger girl to wear clothing that's perfectly okay for a thinner girl to wear. If we have sent that message in the past, we're sorry about it. We're also sorry if we damaged any girl's psyche by making her feel guilty or ashamed of her body or even of her sexuality. Get this straight- no one is responsible for your learning, or not learning, than you. Even if a girl wore booty shorts and a pointed bra with tassels on it every single day, that still doesn't mean she's the reason why you failed a class- you are!"

To be on-topic for once myself...yoga pants, seriously? THAT'S their next big taboo. Please. They could start a riot in some circles with that one. I'm going to be a real smarta$$ here and say, "That's anti-Hindu! You can't tell me that I'm not allowed to wear the pants used for my sacred yoga practice! How dare you?! This is America, and freedom of religion should allow me to wear these pants if I feel I must to remain true to my faith." Yes, I really would do that to the school admin just to prove a point. (And also because I think it would make for good clean fun.) I'm not Hindu, but I'd love to get their goat that way. Threaten to expose the school for their prejudice against Hinduism by attempting to ban yoga pants. In today's world, if this was played straight, I'd bet money they'd drop the proposed ban! :D

:giggle:

daveddd
07-19-15, 06:40 PM
there has been yoga pants debates in my area as well

im not sure of the outcomes i just remember seeing it in my local paper

Little Missy
07-19-15, 06:52 PM
BIG yoga pants bans in Montana. Can't remember if it passed or not:confused:

daveddd
07-19-15, 06:55 PM
http://www.cleveland.com/parma/index.ssf/2015/02/parma_mom_is_pushing_district.html


interesting views about it this short article from my local paper, this is the suburb i live in of cleveland

here its actually a mom telling the school it should be banned

Little Missy
07-19-15, 07:13 PM
BIG yoga pants bans in Montana. Can't remember if it passed or not:confused:

But it was for the state house and senate only! Billings Gazette.

Luvmybully
07-19-15, 07:15 PM
.....I wore school uniforms for 12 years ....ugly ones too .....brown and white checks to grade school and turquise blue, brown and white plaid with a brown collarless jacket and white shirt to high school .....thank g** that it was an all girls school ! and the skirts had to reach the floor when we knelt down ....of course we just rolled the skirts up at the waist ...


......I think uniforms are a great idea in general those ....not ugly ones ...mind you, and a choice of a few different things ...and for both boys and girls ....the thing is ....the cost of clothes for kids is so high, and competition involving clothes can cost a fortune, and if the mom of kid isn''t very clever in making do with little money....lots of hurt feelings and feeling of inadequacy because he or she can't afford those all important brand names ....

......I also think it's not a great use of a kids mind ....worrying what they're going to wear every single school morning .....with a uniform .....and I mean actual uniform clothes....anyway ....you have to wear a uniform .....you get up, you curse at it , you put it on and you go to school .....all the games kids play about clothes rendered invalid .....and they get to grouse about them together ....

...a few "free dress" days ...and you can show off your style.....and you have after school and the weekend .....to express yourself in fashion .....

....it would be one big thing less to distract kids from actually learning something in school .....

....Not to mention .....the parents would save a bundle .....


.....but since that's not going to happen...too sensible ....too "un-American" ....I am fully on your side about this Sarah ......why I myself was just personally ranting about this very thing on facebook the other day ......

.....I can see banning 4 in spike heels, ( for anyone, actually the damage they do to your spine arghhhh) ....and strapless anything .....( too risky) and shorts that don't cover the b*** cheeks, ah no , .....( not to mention, sticking to the chair in hot months !) .....boys gotta have their pants waist over their b*** cheeks ....( srsly, the other day I saw a boy whose pants were actually below his butt !! and belted ! ....almost fell down laughing right there on the sidewalk ....and I do think that in areas, banning gang colors is essential .....


....but yoga pants ??? aw grow up .....they're made of thick fabric, they are completely opaque, and cover the legs in lengths from below the knee to the ground ....they just fit nicely ....( personally I live in them .... gotta show off the one feature that still looks good ....mine are tight between the waist and the knee, flare after that ...)


......anyway ....touched a chord .....yoga pants ! really! .......stupid .....

Uniforms are another of those things I HATE! I had one child in a school with uniforms, and we only lasted one year.

Children are not androgenous, cookie cutter clones. Some of them, girls with puberty changing body image challenges especially, are so self conscious in the "uniforms" that are basically boys clothes. (I am speaking of the uniforms chosen for the schools near me. They even color code the kids, it's disgusting).

And they do not save money, they force you to have to buy your kids 2 sets of clothes. Because they don't want to wear the hideous uniform unless they HAVE to.

It does NOT make everyone all happy happy and not focused on appearance. Human beings will ALWAYS find ways to scrutinize other humans. It is our nature.

Uniformed kids compare jewelry, shoes, jackets, cars, phones, music players, computers, tablets....uniforms change nothing as far as the wealthy kids STILL have things the less fortunate kids can not afford.

There will always be some that can afford more than others. Instead of trying to teach our kids that everyone should be the same, how about teaching them that that is LIFE, and it really doen't matter in the long run?

It teaches children nothing at all about coping in the real world where you are NOT going to have a "rule" that prevents someome from having/wearing/displaying things you do not have the means to get.

Luvmybully
07-19-15, 07:25 PM
No one argument is entirely right, none entirely wrong,



Well, I happen to think you are absolutey, 100% right!

And another outstanding post!

Skyf@ll
07-19-15, 07:27 PM
Point being they want to reduce the risk of anything happening in their organisation.

Our rules...our standards.

don't like it...go elsewhere!

That's life....you don't run this s hit...so you don;t make the rules...end of!!!

Abi
07-19-15, 07:32 PM
No, you don't go elsewhere.

Assuming it's public school, YOUR taxes are paying for that school to operate, and what the majority of the parents find acceptable for their children to wear should be acceptable.

Skyf@ll
07-19-15, 07:36 PM
My god you are rebels to the end!!!

Yes but they set the STANDARDS.

I would have loved to run about school in my Borat Man-kini doing the helicopter LMAO.

You pay the taxes...that doesn't mean you set the rules....you are a number just like everyone else...deal with it!!

Luvmybully
07-19-15, 07:38 PM
Point being they want to reduce the risk of anything happening in their organisation.

Our rules...our standards.

don't like it...go elsewhere!

That's life....you don't run this s hit...so you don;t make the rules...end of!!!

Nearly all public schools are run by elected officials. They have parents on advisory boards. There is no choice either, you go to the school in your district.

They absolutely do have comminuty input when making the rules.

Skyf@ll
07-19-15, 07:48 PM
Nearly all public schools are run by elected officials. They have parents on advisory boards. There is no choice either, you go to the school in your district.

They absolutely do have comminuty input when making the rules.


Woah I see an up-rising happening over yoga pants!

Psml smh!

Stay breezy my friends :cool:

Luvmybully
07-19-15, 07:58 PM
Woah I see an up-rising happening over yoga pants!

Psml smh!

Stay breezy my friends :cool:

No uprising where my kids went to school. No need for one. The boys all seem to fully comprehend that rape is unaccepatble. At least not during the school day.

Skyf@ll
07-19-15, 08:02 PM
That's excellent may the whole PTA around the world live by this example!!

God bless you!!

Luvmybully
07-19-15, 08:09 PM
That's excellent may the whole PTA around the world live by this example!!

God bless you!!

I am not sure if you are referring to me, but the PTA had nothing to do with it.

And, this will rock your socks, my girls went to a performing arts high school. They wore leotards, IN SCHOOL, every day.

They were also cheerleaders. They wore tank tops and sports bra type tops, and small shorts, on campus, every day to practice.

Male athletes went shirtless! We live in the south. It is HOT. In order to avoid heat stroke, you need to dress for the weather.

Still no rapes on campus.

Lunacie
07-19-15, 08:23 PM
Let them do what they want?

You are talking about RAPE. Of a school aged girl. By a classmate.

I don't care if she runs down the hall naked. It would NOT be her fault.

If there is SUCH a huge concern that the boys are incapable of being in a group without violently sexually assaulting girls, then it's the BOYS that need to change. Let THEM be hyper-monitored.

I am very awake. I have 3 adult children and 2 grandchildren. My son got through school just fine without sexually assaulting anyone. My girls were never attacked. Turns out the boys they went to school with were also capable of controlling themsleves.

The focus on it beaing a "girl" problem is starting to get more and more scrutiny. Girls being attacked, for ANY reason, is not a "girl" problem. It is the attackers problem.

The schools do not ban jewlery to reduce the risk of theft. Why not? Some hormonal teenage girl may have a hard time controlling her impluse to attack and steal.

I've seen this issue on facebook and in the media a lot, about how the way
girls dress provokes boys and med to have sexual thoughts and to act on
them.

My response is almost always to quote Golda Meir.
When she was prime minister in Israel in the early 70's she was asked to
place a curfew on women to help end a series of rapes.

Meir replied by stating, “But it is the men who are attacking the women.
If there is to be a curfew, let the men stay at home.”

Children are raped, old women are raped, women in ratty bathrobes are
raped. It's NOT about what women wear, or how they act.



50 years ago my older brother sexually molested/raped me. My mother
told me to wear a girdle to bed, to push my dresser in front of my bedroom
door at night. She seemed to be making it my responsibility. I was a Child.

And the same damn attitude has not changed in 50 years! :mad:

Skyf@ll
07-19-15, 08:32 PM
The argument you're making is blaming the victim, pure and simple. There is no possible good excuse for what you're saying.

Bet your wearing yoga pants just now....doing them lunges!!! (boak!)

Next civil war...yoga pant's!!! hahahah

Luvmybully
07-19-15, 08:37 PM
My response is almost always to quote Golda Meir.
When she was prime minister in Israel in the early 70's she was asked to
place a curfew on women to help end a series of rapes.

Meir replied by stating, “But it is the men who are attacking the women.
If there is to be a curfew, let the men stay at home.”





50 years ago my older brother sexually molested/raped me. My mother
told me to wear a girdle to bed, to push my dresser in front of my bedroom
door at night. She seemed to be making it my responsibility. I was a Child.

And the same damn attitude has not changed in 50 years! :mad:

Exactly Luna!

And OMG. How awful! I am mad at your mom right now.

I think the attitudes now are at least being called out on the BS factor.
Young women these days aren't taking the blame and responsibility quietly as much as they used to.

Skyf@ll
07-19-15, 08:47 PM
At the end of the day...the schools are limiting ANY event no matter how SMALL it may be...because it's their neck at the end of the day.

Take your kids out of their establishment.....they couldn't give a crap!!!!

So do as you please under your OWN supervision and stop moaning like hell....waaahhh yoga pants.....up-rising.....civil- war....the mad king etc!!!!

pffffftttt!!!!!!!!!!

Lizzie80
07-19-15, 08:51 PM
The argument you're making is blaming the victim, pure and simple. There is no possible good excuse for what you're saying.

DVD, I concur with you. Skyfall's first statement (about a school board's decision to reduce the rate of rapes through clothing restriction or whatever) is the most ridiculous, old-fashioned, unscientific, biased comment I've heard in awhile. And may I add that if we're talking about the boundaries of regular hormonal reactions, what a boy or man finds sexy about a woman is ENTIRELY subjective. What one boy or man finds sexy is not what another guy does. A particular item of clothing may or may not add to a girl or woman's sexuality within a NORMAL (non-rapist) boy or man's viewpoint, but nothing a woman wears or doesn't wear will EVER induce a NON-RAPIST MALE to commit rape.

Rape is NOT committed on a woman because of the sexuality or non-sexuality of a girl or woman's choice of clothing. Incest and rape occurs in countries where girls and women are covered (sans eyes and nose) in opaque cloth 24/7. if women are assaulted even when they show nothing but their eyes and nose...well, you can see my point. I fail to notice the connection between clothing and rape has ever been established. Men with that wiring to rape will do so REGARDLESS OF ANYTHING A WOMAN SAYS, DOES, OR IS. Even if a rapist deliberately seeks out women wearing a certain item of clothing due to some warped pathology in their own psyche or brain, that still would not ever make the woman who wore such an item themselves "liable" for the assault against her. It's still entirely on the rapist for guilt, regardless of any stance one wishes to take on this.

A lot of boys/men I know absolutely love long hair on a girl/woman. What are we going to do? Tell every girl to keep her hair cut short to prevent the possibility of "turning a guy on too much"? Come on.

Skyfall, I mean no personal offense to you. Maybe what you wrote wasn't what you meant, what you believe, whatever. Regardless, I think your opinion or at least that statement made is simply incorrect. I rarely if ever step out on the forums here and say that someone is blatantly wrong in anything they say. I not only think the sentiment is wrong in a larger sense, but I've never heard a school board say they based their clothing restriction decisions based upon sexual assault rates, or the likelihood of reducing such rates through "modest" clothing rules or whatever else one wants to call it. Not that a school gives such reasons blatantly, and not that I know everything about the decisions every school makes. If there are cases where I'm wrong and a school board has come out saying such a thing, please tell me where this is true.

If a girl or woman wants to "increase her sexuality", I don't know that she could achieve this through a mere clothing choice in reality. Again, sexuality is very subjective. Not only to those attracted to us, but to the eyes of friends, family, even ourselves. What I think might look sexy on me, my (female, hetero) best friend may not think I look so great in. Even if a girl or woman wants to increase her sexuality theoretically through a clothing choice, why isn't that HER choice? Why is increased sexuality, whether induced through clothing or not, automatically a bad or undesirable thing? Why would it be the cause behind rape? We're getting into DEEP waters with this type of stuff.

Lunacie
07-19-15, 08:53 PM
Bet your wearing yoga pants just now....doing them lunges!!! (boak!)

Next civil war...yoga pant's!!! hahahah

It's not about the damn pants. It's about making young women responsible
for what young men do (rape) or don't do (pay attention in class).

That's just wrong. Giving young men this kind of message means they don't
learn to take responsibility for their own behavior, for their own choices.

Luvmybully
07-19-15, 08:55 PM
At the end of the day...the schools are limiting ANY event no matter how SMALL it may be...because it's their neck at the end of the day.

Take your kids out of their establishment.....they couldn't give a crap!!!!

So do as you please under your OWN supervision and stop moaning like hell....waaahhh yoga pants.....up-rising.....civil- war....the mad king etc!!!!

pffffftttt!!!!!!!!!!

actually, they get per-pupil funding. Less kids = less funding. So yep they care!

Not sure what the heck the rest of your post means, who is supervising whom, doing what? Uprising? Moaning? What?

Why do you find it so hard to believe that schools actually DO care about the familes they serve and WANT community involvement? It really isn't about an us vs them war. It is about parents and schools working together to do what's best for the kids.

The schools that made decisions I did not agree with, I did take my kids out. Put them in private school. Even those schools I would not send my kids to had meetings open to ALL families the schools served to discuss what was going on.

School board meetings are publicly announced. People can speak at them, address the board. They do not seek out election to the boards because they want war with their community.

Abi
07-19-15, 09:02 PM
It's not about the damn pants. It's about making young women responsible
for what young men do (rape) or don't do (pay attention in class).

That's just wrong. Giving young men this kind of message means they don't
learn to take responsibility for their own behavior, for their own choices.

It's also insulting to the majority of young men who are not rapists nor potential rapists or whatever.

Skyf@ll
07-19-15, 09:25 PM
They should follow the rules...why? Because the girls who follow the clothing restriction rules (dependent upon what the school decides, which varies a bit from place to place) will prevent themselves from being raped? Is that your assertion?

Nope, it isn't an argument about yoga pants. I don't want to speak out of turn for anyone else here, but I know I'm not debating over yoga pants per se. I'm debating about clothing choice in any way, shape, or form leading to a girl or woman's sexual assault probability. I say nay. Women are not - and cannot be - responsible for the actions of a male rapist. Ever. As always, I could be wrong, but on this one point I'm pretty sure I'm on-the-mark. I rarely say with certainty that I'm 100% right on anything. This is my sole exception.

It's setting standards....and discipline.

Go to your work tomorrow with yoga pants on see if they like it...

daveddd
07-19-15, 09:53 PM
i think the school in question was more concerned about distraction from checking out the girls butt than anyone being raped

i don't think it was distracting for me, girls were sitting when we learned anyway

Lizzie80
07-19-15, 09:53 PM
It's setting standards....and discipline.

Go to your work tomorrow with yoga pants on see if they like it...

Your comment is fairly offensive in any light, but anyway...

If a woman wears yoga pants to work, she's the equivalent of what precisely? A...yoga teacher? A woman taking a chance on getting raped through her choice in pants? A stripper? A hooker? A woman who purposely dresses inappropriately for her office? I'm not getting your point, sorry...

Whether a woman who dances on a pole for a living is immoral is not an issue that I see as even remotely related to this topic, but if you want to go there, fine. If you're in ANY way implying that being a stripper is ALSO akin to setting oneself up to be raped, wow...I'm not even GOING to go there on that one because I will get FAR too angry. And I respect these forums too much to say all I'd like to. However, I'll say this much. I don't know that many strippers, but the few I have known weren't idiots. Not bad girls. Not women in any way deserving of a sexual assault. A couple of them were good friends of mine, and I do not choose to judge their employment choice. I find it HIGHLY insulting that you even bring stripping or pole-dancing into what is assumed to be a serious discussion. For another thing, the economy drove their decision far more than sexuality, at least on their part. But again- NO GIRL OR WOMAN IS EVER DESERVING OF SEXUAL ASSAULT- PERIOD!!!

If I could make a good living off of hormone-driven men - heck, women, too! - who perceived high levels of sexiness oozing from the yoga pants on my full-figured bod, it'd be my God-given right as an American woman (assuming I'm breaking no laws) to do so. However, I doubt VERY highly that many people would equate yoga pants on me to = sexy, let alone sexy enough to be worth paying me for. If they did, guess what? That's their choice to find me sexy (or not).

Dang, you just keep dig this hole deeper here for yourself!

Luvmybully
07-19-15, 10:04 PM
i think the school in question was more concerned about distraction from checking out the girls butt than anyone being raped

i don't think it was distracting for me, girls were sitting when we learned anyway

:giggle:

And it's not like a girls butt in a nice pair of jeans is less noticable.

daveddd
07-19-15, 10:08 PM
:giggle:

And it's not like a girls butt in a nice pair of jeans is less noticable.

and to be honest , the "uniforms" they put the catholic girls in at another school i hung out at were definitely not less distracting

Lizzie80
07-19-15, 10:19 PM
and to be honest , the "uniforms" they put the catholic girls in at another school i hung out at were definitely not less distracting

Thank you, Dave. That's part of my long-winded point. Even a Catholic schoolgirl outfit is sexy to some (a lot of?) men. Ergo, what is sexy is subjective. I don't see what is hot in the least about such an outfit, but then human sexuality and attractiveness is complex. I don't think a man in gym shorts is sexy (sorry, Abi)...well, with one exception. If Matthew McConaughey was wearing them, I might have a change of heart on that one. But I wouldn't attack him or anything over the shorts...

Normally, it's the man sporting a large and well-developed cranium on top of a well-defined neck that I personally find most attractive or sexy. To each their own!

Skyf@ll
07-19-15, 10:21 PM
would it be distracting to girls if guys wore tight enough pants that nothing was left to the imagination?


You are bringing up double standards!!!

daveddd
07-19-15, 10:22 PM
Thank you, Dave. That's part of my long-winded point. Even a Catholic schoolgirl outfit is sexy to some (a lot of?) men. Ergo, what is sexy is subjective. I don't see what is hot in the least about such an outfit, but then human sexuality and attractiveness is complex. I don't think a man in gym shorts is sexy (sorry, Abi)...well, with one exception. If Matthew McConaughey was wearing them, I might have a change of heart on that one. But I wouldn't attack him or anything over the shorts...

Normally, it's the man sporting a large and well-developed cranium on top of a well-defined neck that I personally find most attractive or sexy. To each their own!

depending on the catholic school i think it would be most men, its one of the top selling halloween customers nowadays for a reason

Lunacie
07-19-15, 10:25 PM
go union , they get paid exactly the same at my job

Your job is one of only a few where that's the case.
http://www.aauw.org/research/the-simple-truth-about-the-gender-pay-gap/

Skyf@ll
07-19-15, 10:25 PM
yea, I'm aware of skinny jeans for men, i hoped they get banned from being sold

i was just asking, i think girls should wear whatever they want to school, i was a strong supporter of the girls rights for short shorts and tight pants, it was the right thing to do

Was merely stating why schools may not want to encourage this!!

I'm from the UK and they set a standard and if you didn't follow...you were in in the crap.

But maybe they let guys and girls run about half-naked in the halls else where...thought it may be similar though

daveddd
07-19-15, 10:27 PM
Your job is one of only a few where that's the case.
http://www.aauw.org/research/the-simple-truth-about-the-gender-pay-gap/

thats why i love unions, a fair and equal living wage for everyone

daveddd
07-19-15, 10:28 PM
Was merely stating why schools may not want to encourage this!!

I'm from the UK and they set a standard and if you didn't follow...you were in in the crap.

But maybe they let guys and girls run about half-naked in the halls else where...thought it may be similar though

yea, in america its pretty normal

daveddd
07-19-15, 10:30 PM
Your job is one of only a few where that's the case.
http://www.aauw.org/research/the-simple-truth-about-the-gender-pay-gap/

and I'm in a male dominant occupation on top of it

Lunacie
07-19-15, 10:30 PM
Are you going into work with your yoga pants on tomorrow???

I could. I have a job where I can wear pretty much whatever I want to.

As was pointed out earlier, you can choose your job or refuse it if you don't like
the rules. School is not a choice.

Although I wonder what the statistics show, do more girls choose homeschool
or online school than boys do? Do more boys simply drop out when they don't
like the rules?

Little Missy
07-19-15, 10:30 PM
Well, why was the Lilly Ledbetter Act signed into law in '09 for equal pay then? So it could be ignored?

Lunacie
07-19-15, 10:32 PM
thats why i love unions, a fair and equal living wage for everyone

Yes, unions are great. But according to that link I posted, even that doesn't
mean that women always get the same pay for doing the same job.

Women face a pay gap in nearly every occupation.
From elementary and middle school teachers to computer programmers, women are paid less than men in female-dominated, gender-balanced, and male-dominated occupations.

daveddd
07-19-15, 10:35 PM
Yes, unions are great. But according to that link I posted, even that doesn't
mean that women always get the same pay for doing the same job.

could be the case in public sector union if they mention teachers

private sector ones have yearly pay scales, everybody gets that wage

Abi
07-19-15, 10:38 PM
Mod Note

Can we please move away from the discussion of wage gaps, unions etc?

It's off topic and I'm not sure if it's sufficiently political to be problematic to American sensibilities.

Skyf@ll
07-19-15, 10:47 PM
I could. I have a job where I can wear pretty much whatever I want to.

As was pointed out earlier, you can choose your job or refuse it if you don't like
the rules. School is not a choice.

Although I wonder what the statistics show, do more girls choose homeschool
or online school than boys do? Do more boys simply drop out when they don't
like the rules?

Thank me later

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBEcLxnXVAc

BellaVita
07-19-15, 10:52 PM
I haven't read the whole thread yet.

I went to a school that didn't have uniform, but guidelines.

The most annoying one was that we couldn't wear a shirt "3 fingers below the collar bone."

I had to get rid of most of my shirts and shopping was really difficult because of that.

It felt sooo weird to be able to wear whatever I wanted after I graduated high school.

Like a new freedom.

Which other people thought was really weird because they mostly got to wear what they wanted to school.

Luvmybully
07-19-15, 10:52 PM
Defo not lmao................


Through life I have learned that if I had actually done what I was told to do...I would't be in the situation I am just now........doing a damn good of recovering now though.

I respect authority....something I could never have do before.

But we are talking about our children. WE are their authority. WE are responsible for them, and have a responsibility to not allow them, in this case mostly our teenage daughters, to be held accountable for anyone else's behavior, or blamed for the poor academic performance of other students.

Do you have daughters? If yes, or even if you don't, would you really want your daughter in school to be told she is the reason her male classmate is not doing well in school? That is NOT on her. As her father, she NEEDS you to defend her and not allow that responsibility to be placed on her.

YES, parents do have the ability to take a very active role in schools' decisions. It is not a war, or even a battle. It is important for the long term success of our kids AND our schools.

BellaVita
07-19-15, 11:00 PM
I feel objectified when I wear gym shorts and have women checking out my legs.

:eek:

Does that seriously happen???

I'm sorry if it does, I know this stuff can happen to men too

Abi
07-19-15, 11:04 PM
:eek:

Does that seriously happen???

I'm sorry if it does, I know this stuff can happen to men too

It does happen, but I was being naughty when I said I felt objectified.

BellaVita
07-19-15, 11:07 PM
I grew up in a culture that told the girls they were "stumbling blocks" for the boys, so I would cover up out of fear of making one of the boys "stumble."

It made me fearful and guilty.

It made me feel like it was MY fault if a guy checked me out.

I'm working on moving past all of that, but it still haunts me and has caused me some serious issues that I'm working through.

Luvmybully
07-19-15, 11:09 PM
Was merely stating why schools may not want to encourage this!!

I'm from the UK and they set a standard and if you didn't follow...you were in in the crap.



I just now saw this. Explains a lot about how public schools may very well be run differently!

I am in the US. Here, public schools have a school board, that is responsible for every school in the county. This is my state. Other states may be slightly different.

Parents, students, anyone in the community, is welcome to contact the school board. If there is a conflict that in not able to be resolved between an individual school and a family, the family may petition the school board for help.

The school board is a publicly elected governing body. Their meetings are open to the public, and the public has an opportunity to speak to them about whatever they wish.

Over the course of the 28 years I had children in school, we had some great experiences, and some not so great experiences. But as a parent, I always had a very active role in my children's education.

daveddd
07-19-15, 11:10 PM
I grew up in a culture that told the girls they were "stumbling blocks" for the boys, so I would cover up out of fear of making one of the boys "stumble."

It made me fearful and guilty.

It made me feel like it was MY fault if a guy checked me out.

I'm working on moving past all of that, but it still haunts me and has caused me some serious issues that I'm working through.

culture?

was this just a particular school because your fairly young, and this hasn't been culture in america

im not doubting you at all, I'm just not sure what you mean

Skyf@ll
07-19-15, 11:15 PM
I just now saw this. Explains a lot about how public schools may very well be run differently!

I am in the US. Here, public schools have a school board, that is responsible for every school in the county. This is my state. Other states may be slightly different.

Parents, students, anyone in the community, is welcome to contact the school board. If there is a conflict that in not able to be resolved between an individual school and a family, the family may petition the school board for help.

The school board is a publicly elected governing body. Their meetings are open to the public, and the public has an opportunity to speak to them about whatever they wish.

Over the course of the 28 years I had children in school, we had some great experiences, and some not so great experiences. But as a parent, I always had a very active role in my children's education.

Cool we'll I'm clearly out my depth on that subject soz

The point I was trying to make that some rules are put in place for a reason.

BellaVita
07-19-15, 11:18 PM
Are you not aware of the skinny jeans fashion for guys?
Have they been banned at school?
Tight tees and tank tops that show off abs and pectorals?
Have they been banned as being too distracting?

What about pants that hang so low that the shape of the butt can clearly
be seen through thin cotton briefs?
Have they been banned? Gods, I hope so!

This has reminded me.

At my highschool, guys wore skinny jeans all the freakin time.

But girls got told to change if their pants were too tight.

I never noticed that before!

BellaVita
07-19-15, 11:20 PM
culture?

was this just a particular school because your fairly young, and this hasn't been culture in america

im not doubting you at all, I'm just not sure what you mean

I used the word "culture" so that I wouldn't lead the thread into a political discussion.

I was in high school, one run by my church.

I was surrounded by people who all thought the same way, particularly by the strictest ones since someone in my family is the president of an important thing in that community, so those types of really strict people were all around me.

(I'm being vague on purpose as to not lead this discussion into political/religious etc)

dvdnvwls
07-20-15, 12:47 AM
It does happen, but I was being naughty when I said I felt objectified.

I knew what you meant back there and thought it was truly funny. I just didn't want to interrupt the discussion at the time. :)

sarahsweets
07-20-15, 04:23 AM
Skyfall...
I cant even begin to pick once of your posts to quote, there are so many that are out of line and baseless, and obtuse...
I cant believe that you think that these rules were put in place for a "reason". What reason? Well the obvious message they are sending to the girls around here is, the girls are all wanton sexy females, that have no interest in learning, only showing off their bodies...the boys have no interest in learning, only staring at girls hoping to score.
The thing that can get overlooked in this scenario is that there are just as many boys that should be offended by this as girls! My son is a feminist (he says so not me) and maybeI raised him this way, or maybe he is just smart enough to realize that women are not objects or possessions. He would never sexually assault a girl and he certainly did well in school. I am equally offended that the message my son could have received from this same school is "you cant control yourself, you are inherently evil and probably plotting a rape right now. Therefore we must shield your eyes and reign in your hormones by regulating what the girls around you wear".
I am just as annoyed that the assumption is made that boys cant concentrate if girls are wearing certain clothing. It certainly didnt keep him from graduating. The principle behind this part of the dress code has nothing to do with what would be considered overly sexy outfits, this is about a particular item of clothing that women find comfy which happens to accentuate the caboose. Most girls dont wake up and select outfits based on how hot they might be considered to the boys. Even if they did, so what?
None of that should ever be a factor in sexual assault, harassment, or learning.

You keep saying these rules are made for a reason and we should just follow them? For what? You accuse people here of "pulling the rape card" You brought up the idea that the rules are so the school cant be held responsible if things happen to a girl as a result of her clothing.
And, any time someone says "rape card' its a cop out. Its no better then telling a minority they are pulling the race card, or the gay card.
Extremely offensive. They way you are posting will lead to this thread being closed and that will really upset me, because I never in a million years thought that we would be pursuing this point on a support forum. I welcome your ignorance though, I can handle it.

Skyf@ll
07-20-15, 04:58 AM
Skyfall...
I cant even begin to pick once of your posts to quote, there are so many that are out of line and baseless, and obtuse...
I cant believe that you think that these rules were put in place for a "reason". What reason? Well the obvious message they are sending to the girls around here is, the girls are all wanton sexy females, that have no interest in learning, only showing off their bodies...the boys have no interest in learning, only staring at girls hoping to score.
They thing that can get overlooked in this scenario is that there are just as many boys that should be offended by this as girls! My son is a feminist (he says so not me) and maybeI raised him this way, or maybe he is just smart enough to realize that women are not objects or possessions. He would never sexually assault a girl and he certainly did well in school. I am equally offended that the message my son could have received from this same school is "you cant control yourself, you are inherently evil and probably plotting a rape right now. Therefore we must shield your eyes and reign in your hormones by regulating what the girls around you wear".
I am just as annoyed that the assumption is made that boys cant concentrate if girls are wearing certain clothing. It certainly didnt keep him from graduating. The principle behind this part of the dress code has nothing to do with what would be considered overly sexy outfits, this is about a particular item of clothing that women find comfy which happens to accentuate the caboose. Most girls dont wake up and select outfits based on how hot they might be considered to the boys. Even if they did, so what?
None of that should ever be a factor in sexual assault, harassment, or learning.

You keep saying these rules are made for a reason and we should just follow them? For what? You accuse people here of "pulling the rape card" You brought up the idea that the rules are so the school cant be held responsible if things happen to a girl as a result of her clothing.
And, any time someone says "rape card' its a cop out. Its no better then telling a minority they are pulling the race card, or the gay card.
Extremely offensive. They way you are posting will lead to this thread being closed and that will really upset me, because I never in a million years thought that we would be pursuing this point on a support forum. I welcome your ignorance though, I can handle it.

You know what saz...I was a fool for posting on this...:o

I clicked on the top section of the forum.....just to post a comment.

TBH schools will always have their rules....and they do for a reason...will stick by that.

Yep the rape thing was more of a (worst case scenario)

I do think the schools are entitled to set a standard...ie dress code for students etc. It enables them to identify students from importers....that kind of thing.

But you as parent...you can vouch if this is right or wrong....

I'm over the other side of the pond..just my opinion at the end of the day.

Skyf@ll
07-20-15, 05:29 AM
Skyfall...
I cant even begin to pick once of your posts to quote, there are so many that are out of line and baseless, and obtuse...
I cant believe that you think that these rules were put in place for a "reason". What reason? Well the obvious message they are sending to the girls around here is, the girls are all wanton sexy females, that have no interest in learning, only showing off their bodies...the boys have no interest in learning, only staring at girls hoping to score.
The thing that can get overlooked in this scenario is that there are just as many boys that should be offended by this as girls! My son is a feminist (he says so not me) and maybeI raised him this way, or maybe he is just smart enough to realize that women are not objects or possessions. He would never sexually assault a girl and he certainly did well in school. I am equally offended that the message my son could have received from this same school is "you cant control yourself, you are inherently evil and probably plotting a rape right now. Therefore we must shield your eyes and reign in your hormones by regulating what the girls around you wear".
I am just as annoyed that the assumption is made that boys cant concentrate if girls are wearing certain clothing. It certainly didnt keep him from graduating. The principle behind this part of the dress code has nothing to do with what would be considered overly sexy outfits, this is about a particular item of clothing that women find comfy which happens to accentuate the caboose. Most girls dont wake up and select outfits based on how hot they might be considered to the boys. Even if they did, so what?
None of that should ever be a factor in sexual assault, harassment, or learning.

You keep saying these rules are made for a reason and we should just follow them? For what? You accuse people here of "pulling the rape card" You brought up the idea that the rules are so the school cant be held responsible if things happen to a girl as a result of her clothing.
And, any time someone says "rape card' its a cop out. Its no better then telling a minority they are pulling the race card, or the gay card.
Extremely offensive. They way you are posting will lead to this thread being closed and that will really upset me, because I never in a million years thought that we would be pursuing this point on a support forum. I welcome your ignorance though, I can handle it.

When I offer my opinion it's not meant to offend anyone....I'm honest with my experiences.

I'm a vocal person...as you are!!! :D

Do you know I received a neg rep from this....shocker!!?

midnightstar
07-20-15, 05:33 AM
What exactly are yoga pants anyways? The word "pants" in the UK means underwear and somehow I don't think sarahsweets daughter goes to school in just her underwear :confused:

BellaVita
07-20-15, 05:40 AM
What exactly are yoga pants anyways? The word "pants" in the UK means underwear and somehow I don't think sarahsweets daughter goes to school in just her underwear :confused:

They are form-fitting pants that are supposed to be really comfy, especially for doing activities such as yoga.

I've never tried them, but that's what I've heard.

Skyf@ll
07-20-15, 05:42 AM
Yeah in the US they say pants like we say under-wear etc.

Google it..

Skyf@ll
07-20-15, 05:46 AM
They are form-fitting pants that are supposed to be really comfy, especially for doing activities such as yoga.

I've never tried them, but that's what I've heard.

this.....

namazu
07-20-15, 06:46 AM
What exactly are yoga pants anyways? The word "pants" in the UK means underwear and somehow I don't think sarahsweets daughter goes to school in just her underwear :confused:
http://www.urbangirlfitness.com/images/Old_navy_yoga_pants.jpg

(They vary in style, length, tightness, etc., but that's the general idea.)

midnightstar
07-20-15, 07:45 AM
http://www.urbangirlfitness.com/images/Old_navy_yoga_pants.jpg

(They vary in style, length, tightness, etc., but that's the general idea.)

Thanks Namazu :grouphug: I'm not repeating what images my brain was giving me about yoga pants before you and Bella posted what they are :o

Anyway I'll stop derailing :grouphug:

Lizzie80
07-20-15, 09:38 AM
Thanks Namazu :grouphug: I'm not repeating what images my brain was giving me about yoga pants before you and Bella posted what they are :o

Anyway I'll stop derailing :grouphug:

If I may chime in, these are also yoga pants, albeit plus-size ones. As you can see, they are clearly scandalous. (Sarcasm here...)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/311-Rv9g8vL._SL246_SX190_CR0,0,190,246_.jpg

Abi
07-20-15, 10:05 AM
This is indicative of a serious flaw in societal mentality that needs to be addressed.

Conman
07-20-15, 10:28 AM
im not reading 8 pages...but i have never had a problem with yoga pants/leggings

Luvmybully
07-20-15, 12:21 PM
Oh my!

Were our UK friends posting here thinking we were talking about girls going to school in their underwear?

I can see how THAT could cause some serious confusion!

Little Missy
07-20-15, 12:28 PM
im not reading 8 pages...but i have never had a problem with yoga pants/leggings

:lol:

Lizzie80
07-20-15, 02:26 PM
I grew up in a culture that told the girls they were "stumbling blocks" for the boys, so I would cover up out of fear of making one of the boys "stumble."

It made me fearful and guilty.

It made me feel like it was MY fault if a guy checked me out.

I'm working on moving past all of that, but it still haunts me and has caused me some serious issues that I'm working through.

Growing up in a culturally-conservative household and joining a different faith as a teenager, the impression I got was about the same as Bella. Like her, I am still working through this as an woman of age 35, who's been away from those settings for thirteen years now.

I think what Bella took away from her childhood sounds a lot like what I did. That if I wanted to be seen as virtuous, my clothing choices were a part of that. That my morality (or lack thereof) was reflected in my clothing and in my looks. Generally speaking, females feel much more pressure to do this modesty thing or chastity thing via clothing choices than males. It doesn't just extend to clothing, obviously- but if men ever wonder why this is a touchy subject, perhaps they need to keep in mind all of this. Even in a Westernized culture like America, women STILL must fight daily battles over our worth and value. Where that value comes from, how we adorn ourselves, the style we choose- men need to understand that it is an extremely challenging and complex topic for many ladies. Young girls don't even have the advantage of experience, time, and perspective that a middle-aged woman like myself has; so cut us some slack.

(Obviously, I'm not speaking to the gentlemen on here who've done anything but judge us or make us feel like our choice in clothing needs defending. Thanks to those on here who backed us ladies up, BTW.)

Now I think that unlike most women, I felt perhaps a bit insulated from the rape fear because I was/am quite big and rather tall. A man would have to be built like Stallone or something akin to that in order to actually be able to physically drag me somewhere without drugging me instantly, not to mention that I regularly lift weights and I know where to kick just right. (SING- solar plexus, instep, nose, groin. Learned from the film, Miss Congeniality. Kick one or all body parts for attacker deterrence. Never had to use it, but I will certainly do so in a pinch.) However, as a good friend once reminded me when I made a remark about me not being particularly appealing to a rapist, a girl or women's face/age/size/dress are NOT at ALL what that violent act is all about. (I was 16 and therefore pretty ignorant. I wouldn't say such a thing at my current age!)

Sorry if this last part is going OT, but maybe it helps some people understand just how extremely complicated this whole issue is! Add looking different from the norm to the mix (such as being heavyset), add religion to the mix, whatever...every woman has had struggles to deal with. No man should ever insinuate - however unintentionally - that a girl or woman controls what a violent man does. She controls the violence of rape as much as she does burglary or murder- that is, not at all.

Lizzie80
07-20-15, 03:43 PM
Thank me later

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBEcLxnXVAc

Can you please explain how the Alice Cooper song supports your belief system spoken of in this thread, either generally or specifically? I don't see how this song is relevant to our discussion, so you'll need to elaborate on that.

If having laws and regulations worked to control a psychopath's behavior, criminal activity based upon financial interests, or illegal drug use - to give three examples - then certainly the U.S. (my home country) would have little need for the DEA, FDA, any other government agency, or very much of the police force. Now, the laws may certainly enforce punishment for the acts AFTER they have been committed, but to the best of my knowledge the rules and laws prevent absolutely nothing. Some crime levels (i.e., drug-dealing) are deeply tied into the overall success or failure of a city, state or national economy; other crime is tied only to the psyche and/or biology of a criminal themselves.

In a similar vein, rules and regulations may also include penalties to those who disobey a dress code in school. The school can set standards in the U.S. Part of my original statement (to SarahSweets) is that those standards must be equally applied to every individual. I don't know if you understood what I was saying or not about such standards, but part of the issue lies in the inequality of application by school officials within the U.S. (I cannot speak for the UK because I don't live there.) Also, if someone is absolutely determined to wear what they want to school regardless of known punishment, the rules won't prevent him or her from making that decision. They won't care about the potential fallout, so the standard-setting is irrelevant to those individuals.

Once again, even if such rules were obeyed to the letter by every young woman, there is still NO KNOWN CORRELATION to sexual assault rates whatsoever. If I am incorrect in that last statement, please enlighten me with even a good theoretical argument from an expert in this issue- I mean that seriously. If you have some legitimate statistics or anything else logical supporting your stance, which is in direct contradiction to virtually all Western research and published criminal documentation on the subject, I'll be glad to amend my opinion. Merely posting an Alice Cooper video or quoting lyrics from a song about stripping (I presume) doesn't lend support to your stance. Most people on the forums, myself included, do not mind a good debate. The problem was and is not with anyone having a dissenting opinion, at least not for me. The problem lies in part with what Abi said- the straw man argument. Whether or not you meant it that way, what was said offended some of us, and seemed quite personal in response to me.

To set an example, here are a few legitimate studies or expert opinions to back up my stance. I do not claim that my stance is precisely the same as anyone else on these boards, and do not speak for anyone but myself. I do not claim my stance if definitively accurate, but it is pretty well-educated. (I state that with no ego, only reporting fact.) I will not engage in deliberate rudeness not only due to my personal morals, but out of general respect for this site, the mods, and every other person here. I am trying to have a rational discussion about a very serious issue that is still being debated in many nations today. At least one of these links below touches on the fact that boys are also sexually abused or assaulted, and there is no correlation between what a boy wears and whether or not he is assaulted, either.

http://ojls.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/2/173.abstract

http://www.oakland.edu/upload/docs/youth%20protection/the_truth_about_sexual_abuse.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_sexual_violence

I'll be happy to look at any material you produce which backs up your viewpoint.

midnightstar
07-20-15, 04:49 PM
Oh my!

Were our UK friends posting here thinking we were talking about girls going to school in their underwear?

I can see how THAT could cause some serious confusion!

I could understand the school objecting to girls going to school in their underwear though :lol:

dvdnvwls
07-20-15, 05:02 PM
I didn't see the music video that was posted, but I think if it has something to do with a stripper then it inadvertently cuts down the argument of the person who posted it. Rape cases have one obvious thing in common, and it isn't the clothing (or lack thereof) of the victim. Strippers are not apparently raped at a far greater rate than everyone else, and if the clothing hypothesis was true then obviously they would be. What rape victims have in common is that (for whatever reason) they presented a lower risk to the attacker (that is, he perceived a lower risk of his being hurt or caught or punished). The cases reported as "Would-be rapist surprised, beaten up by much smarter and tougher woman" are times when the criminal's risk assessment was particularly faulty.

If ways can be found to make rape a more risky crime to commit, it will become less frequent. Changing what people wear makes no difference to that risk.

Luvmybully
07-20-15, 05:07 PM
Can you please explain how the Alice Cooper song supports your belief system spoken of in this thread, either generally or specifically? I don't see how this song is relevant to our discussion, so you'll need to elaborate on that.






I took this to be more of a lighten the mood kind of thing, since we were talking about school, this song is school's out for the summer, no more teachers, rules...ect.

A break from it :)

I think Sky fall was a bit overwhelmed by the intensity of our reactions. I really feel his 1st statements were taken more seriously than he himself thought of them, and then WOW what a reaction we all had!

Skyf@ll
07-20-15, 05:09 PM
Can you please explain how the Alice Cooper song supports your belief system spoken of in this thread, either generally or specifically? I don't see how this song is relevant to our discussion, so you'll need to elaborate on that.

If having laws and regulations worked to control a psychopath's behavior, criminal activity based upon financial interests, or illegal drug use - to give three examples - then certainly the U.S. (my home country) would have little need for the DEA, FDA, any other government agency, or very much of the police force. Now, the laws may certainly enforce punishment for the acts AFTER they have been committed, but to the best of my knowledge the rules and laws prevent absolutely nothing. Some crime levels (i.e., drug-dealing) are deeply tied into the overall success or failure of a city, state or national economy; other crime is tied only to the psyche and/or biology of a criminal themselves.

In a similar vein, rules and regulations may also include penalties to those who disobey a dress code in school. The school can set standards in the U.S. Part of my original statement (to SarahSweets) is that those standards must be equally applied to every individual. I don't know if you understood what I was saying or not about such standards, but part of the issue lies in the inequality of application by school officials within the U.S. (I cannot speak for the UK because I don't live there.) Also, if someone is absolutely determined to wear what they want to school regardless of known punishment, the rules won't prevent him or her from making that decision. They won't care about the potential fallout, so the standard-setting is irrelevant to those individuals.

Once again, even if such rules were obeyed to the letter by every young woman, there is still NO KNOWN CORRELATION to sexual assault rates whatsoever. If I am incorrect in that last statement, please enlighten me with even a good theoretical argument from an expert in this issue- I mean that seriously. If you have some legitimate statistics or anything else logical supporting your stance, which is in direct contradiction to virtually all Western research and published criminal documentation on the subject, I'll be glad to amend my opinion. Merely posting an Alice Cooper video or quoting lyrics from a song about stripping (I presume) doesn't lend support to your stance. Most people on the forums, myself included, do not mind a good debate. The problem was and is not with anyone having a dissenting opinion, at least not for me. The problem lies in part with what Abi said- the straw man argument. Whether or not you meant it that way, what was said offended some of us, and seemed quite personal in response to me.

To set an example, here are a few legitimate studies or expert opinions to back up my stance. I do not claim that my stance is precisely the same as anyone else on these boards, and do not speak for anyone but myself. I do not claim my stance if definitively accurate, but it is pretty well-educated. (I state that with no ego, only reporting fact.) I will not engage in deliberate rudeness not only due to my personal morals, but out of general respect for this site, the mods, and every other person here. I am trying to have a rational discussion about a very serious issue that is still being debated in many nations today. At least one of these links below touches on the fact that boys are also sexually abused or assaulted, and there is no correlation between what a boy wears and whether or not he is assaulted, either.

http://ojls.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/2/173.abstract

http://www.oakland.edu/upload/docs/youth%20protection/the_truth_about_sexual_abuse.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_sexual_violence

I'll be happy to look at any material you produce which backs up your viewpoint.

..............it was a joke

How long did it take you to write this?

I'm going cross eyed looking at it.

Luvmybully
07-20-15, 05:17 PM
I didn't see the music video that was posted, but I think if it has something to do with a stripper then it inadvertently cuts down the argument of the person who posted it.


The song really wasn't about a stripper!

It is basically about school break for the summer.

Really, it is a simple, high school kids everywhere kind of anthem song about summer freedom!

dvdnvwls
07-20-15, 05:21 PM
The song really wasn't about a stripper!

It is basically about school break for the summer.

Really, it is a simple, high school kids everywhere kind of anthem song about summer freedom!

Ugh I'm sorry for misinterpreting the comments others made about it. I would be the last person to take a light-hearted or joking song seriously.

midnightstar
07-20-15, 05:55 PM
I didn't see the music video that was posted, but I think if it has something to do with a stripper then it inadvertently cuts down the argument of the person who posted it. Rape cases have one obvious thing in common, and it isn't the clothing (or lack thereof) of the victim. Strippers are not apparently raped at a far greater rate than everyone else, and if the clothing hypothesis was true then obviously they would be. What rape victims have in common is that (for whatever reason) they presented a lower risk to the attacker (that is, he perceived a lower risk of his being hurt or caught or punished). The cases reported as "Would-be rapist surprised, beaten up by much smarter and tougher woman" are times when the criminal's risk assessment was particularly faulty.

If ways can be found to make rape a more risky crime to commit, it will become less frequent. Changing what people wear makes no difference to that risk.

At the risk of derailing again, I believe (and I could be wrong) that rape is more about control than anything else, as I said I don't know for certain.

/stops derailing

Andi
07-20-15, 05:57 PM
Ok folks, we've been managing this thread most of the day and for the past few minutes we've had to do several removals, edits, etc. Clearly this is a hot topic members would like to discuss but I'm closing it for a while so we can PM members and for all to find their center and to note that this topic is not meant for humor.

Fortune
07-22-15, 02:10 AM
Thread still under review.