View Full Version : effects of ADHD medications on emotional-affects.


mildadhd
08-20-15, 10:56 PM
This thread is meant to explore the 7 primary emotional-affective response systems and the effects of ADHD medication has on those basic emotional systems common in all mammals.


Dr. Barkley's video is meant as a excellent guide for discussion, but not limited to.

(I have not experienced all the medications discussed in the video.)

Thoughts about emotions, thoughts about memories and thoughts about thoughts appreciated.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LnS0PfNyj4U




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br3akingchains
08-21-15, 02:37 PM
I've only taken adderall since April, it's also the first medication I've tried so far. Currently I take 40mg. I find it doesn't dull my feelings, at least that's my perception, in fact I feel more appreciative and empathetic when it comes to loved ones and patients.

Daydreamin22
08-21-15, 03:02 PM
I've only taken adderall since April, it's also the first medication I've tried so far. Currently I take 40mg. I find it doesn't dull my feelings, at least that's my perception, in fact I feel more appreciative and empathetic when it comes to loved ones and patients.

good to hear happy stories about it.

Pilgrim
08-21-15, 04:06 PM
I've seen this video before. One thing that fascinated me about what he covers here is the suppression of lambic system function, I didn't know those drugs worked that way, ( he describes it beautifully, as soon as I feel blunted. I'm over medicated.

In my opinion this is where the sweet spot is, just before this affect. And if the med is zero correct you have all the other benefits.

By the way I've only taken Dexamphetamine ,Ritalin and Concerta.

Hope this is on topic.

br3akingchains
08-22-15, 11:15 AM
Thanks for the insight pilgrim... I was thinking about asking for an increase and this might help me identify whether it's right or wrong for me.

20 mg helped me become more aware and 'see' more of the 'real' world. I could see and accept all of my messes, problems, shortcomings etc... I finally learned (thanks to this forum) and really started to understood what ADHD had done to me and how it affected my everyday life.

The jump to 40 mg has helped me to start doing things again. Prior to the meds I had gotten to a state where, in restrospect, it seemed like I was in a coma (mentally, unable to start or accomplish anything, it seemed). Most of the time I still feel pretty scattered and like I should be able to accomplish more. Maybe I'm still in denial about how much I can actually handle.

I'm hoping sixty will help. My plan is to try it for a few months and then maybe switch to a different medication (in search of the most efficient for me) and see what happens...

Daydreamin22
08-22-15, 02:41 PM
I'm hoping sixty will help. My plan is to try it for a few months and then maybe switch to a different medication (in search of the most efficient for me) and see what happens...

Id be careful with 60 mg bc thats a high dose. You might get new side effects.

Pilgrim
08-22-15, 05:07 PM
Id be careful with 60 mg bc thats a high dose. You might get new side effects.

I think this is where the doctor comes in. Taking these medications in a conservative way, so they help and not hinder is best.
I remember when I started I ran around trying to get stuff done and I was overreacting. What you have to do is set a reasonable level and plan, it's a very long term project.
I think the real emotional issues sort themselves out. You realise your a stronger person, you know you can handle it or you learn to forgive yourself, or you can reach higher and you move on.
The rest is just a function, work school and play.

Daydreamin22
08-22-15, 05:42 PM
I just meant that sometimes dr's don't know whats best for you when it comes to medication. That was my experience. This person might get dependent on it and stuff. Just my perspective.

mildadhd
08-22-15, 09:53 PM
Both stimulants and non stimulants help regulate emotions.

If emotions are not part of the ADHD neuroanatomy like Dr.Barkley thinks, then why do we take stimulants at all?

We must consider how the whole body and brain develops and works to understand ADHD.

Emotions are part of the ADHD neuroanatomy.



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Pilgrim
08-23-15, 05:20 AM
That's a really good point. I was just so sensitive and I am tired of it.

mildadhd
08-23-15, 11:19 AM
I am hypersensitive aswell.

The 7 emotional systems do not all feel unsafe and negative.

I am most interested in promoting safe and positive emotional feeling systems, like SEEKING, CARE and PLAY, that do promote development of the prefrontal cortex area (executive function).



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SB_UK
08-25-15, 08:02 AM
Both stimulants and non stimulants help regulate emotions.

If emotions are not part of the ADHD neuroanatomy like Dr.Barkley thinks, then why do we take stimulants at all?

We must consider how the whole body and brain develops and works to understand ADHD.

Emotions are part of the ADHD neuroanatomy.



P


The word stimulant, -motion, speed want to sit together.
Medications suppress emotions (the link above).
Emotional lability - problem - 'flying off the handle'.
Desire to be emotionally stable.

Can an emotion work if there's no 'down' to an 'up' ie can you have a positive emotion without a negative equivalent in tow.

In bipolar - the cycles are apparent.

Fast and Slow.

ADHD and ADD-I.

-*-

Ketosis (balanced glucose) vs fluctuating blood glucose levels related to diet comes to mind again.

Lunacie
08-25-15, 11:26 AM
Both stimulants and non stimulants help regulate emotions.

If emotions are not part of the ADHD neuroanatomy like Dr.Barkley thinks, then why do we take stimulants at all?

We must consider how the whole body and brain develops and works to understand ADHD.

Emotions are part of the ADHD neuroanatomy.



P

Dr. Barkley seems to be saying, in the video, that the limbic system and the
ability to experience emotion is not impaired in those with ADHD.

From other videos (and transcriptions) I believe that he says what is impaired
in those with ADHD is the ability to self-regulate those emotions.

In this video he explains how the medications regulate emotions for us as
well as enhancing our ability to focus and concentrate.

SB_UK
08-25-15, 02:06 PM
If stimulants suppress the limbic system.
And ADDers are more sensitive.
And triggered sensitivity results in an emotional response.

Then stimulants simply suppress the consequence of sensitivity in an insensitive environment.

So - de-activate alarm bells.

Inactivate pain / punishment.

As opposed to supplying reward.

mildadhd
08-25-15, 09:27 PM
Can an emotion work if there's no 'down' to an 'up' ie can you have a positive emotion without a negative equivalent in tow.





From other videos (and transcriptions) I believe that he says what is impaired
in those with ADHD is the ability to self-regulate those emotions.



Negative and Positive feelings are required to maintain homeostasis?



..Emotional feelings (affects) are intrinsic values that inform animals how they are faring in the quest to survive.

The various positive affects indicate that animals are returning to “comfort zones” that support survival, and negative affects reflect “discomfort zones” that indicate that animals are in situations that may impair survival.

They are ancestral tools for living - evolutionary memories of such importance that they were coded into the genome in rough form (as primary brain processes), which are refined by basic learning mechanisms (secondary processes) as well as by higher-order cognitions/thoughts (tertiary processes)..




<----unsafe feelings-----homeostasis-----unsafe feelings---->

--------safe feelings---->homeostasis<-----safe feelings------

Unsafe (negative) feelings feel like a punishment?

Safe (positive) feelings feel like a reward?

..There is a remarkable correspondence between ESB sites yielding emotional action patterns (the various distinct instinctual-behavioral profiles, described below for each of seven primary emotional processes) and their capacity to sustain “reinforced” learning in animals and intense emotional feelings in humans.

Accordingly, we can use a dual-aspect monism strategy to study emotional feelings - ie, ESB evoked RAGE behaviors reflect angry-type feelings (animals turn off such ESB20), while evoked PLAY behaviors reflect joyful-type feelings - ESB evoking play-vocalizations sustain self-stimulation reward,21 etc.

(In physics, a related “dual-aspect” strategy - concurrent acceptance of “wave” and “particle” descriptions of electromagnetic radiation - is needed to make sense of available data).

In the present view, the affective states generated by primordial brain emotional networks may have been among the first experiences that existed in brain evolution.

Without them, higher consciousness (frontal neocortical executive functions) may not have evolved.22

In evolutionary terms, all primal emotional systems are rooted in yet deeper and more ancient processes.

For example, the psychological pain of separation-distress/GRIEF may have arisen from earlier physical pain systems of the brain.23 -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181986/

aeon
08-25-15, 11:59 PM
If stimulants suppress the limbic system.
And ADDers are more sensitive.
And triggered sensitivity results in an emotional response.

Then stimulants simply suppress the consequence of sensitivity in an insensitive environment.

So - de-activate alarm bells.

Inactivate pain / punishment.

As opposed to supplying reward.

In a Barkley video I watched recently, he was explicit about how the usual psychostimulant meds do not modulate the emotional response of the limbic system, whereas e.g., atomoxetine does have effect upon this area of the brain.

I’ve not had time to investigate this more deeply.


cheers,
Ian

Lunacie
08-26-15, 12:53 PM
In a Barkley video I watched recently, he was explicit about how the usual psychostimulant meds do not modulate the emotional response of the limbic system, whereas e.g., atomoxetine does have effect upon this area of the brain.

I’ve not had time to investigate this more deeply.


cheers,
Ian

I've watched videos and read transcripts from Dr. Barkley, and as I understand
it, the meds help with our impulsive reactions, giving us a moment to think
about what we're feeling and moderate our responses.

mildadhd
08-26-15, 09:22 PM
<----unsafe feelings-----homeostasis-----unsafe feelings---->

--------safe feelings---->homeostasis<-----safe feelings------

Something is bugging me?

I am not sure if "homeostasis" is the right term to use?

Can safe feelings exist without the existence of unsafe feelings?


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mildadhd
08-26-15, 10:26 PM
In a Barkley video I watched recently, he was explicit about how the usual psychostimulant meds do not modulate the emotional response of the limbic system, whereas e.g., atomoxetine does have effect upon this area of the brain.

I’ve not had time to investigate this more deeply.


cheers,
Ian

1 out of 5 people diagnosed with ADHD who do take stimulants become automaton like.

4 out of 5 people diagnosed with ADHD who do take stimulants don't become automaton like.

Both stimulants and non stimulant ADHD medications can temporarily help control (self regulate) emotions, but they do it in different ways. (Paraphrasing OP video)






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mildadhd
08-26-15, 10:55 PM
I've watched videos and read transcripts from Dr. Barkley, and as I understand
it, the meds help with our impulsive reactions, giving us a moment to think
about what we're feeling and moderate our responses.

In the video, in this thread, Dr Barkley says the more stimulant medication we take, the more emotional blunting occurs. (Paraphrasing)

Why don't we all prefer non stimulants?

Why do some people prefer both stimulants and non stimulants?

Why do some people prefer stimulants?


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SB_UK
08-27-15, 05:46 AM
Something is bugging me?

I am not sure if "homeostasis" is the right term to use?

Can safe feelings exist without the existence of unsafe feelings?


P

The administration of balanced stimulant and narcotic produces an intense high.
This is somewhat counter-intuitive.

wikiP_Speedball(drug)

Should homeostasis read bliss ?

SB_UK
08-27-15, 05:48 AM
While this is somewhat effective, as one drug (the CNS stimulant) triggers the sympathetic nervous system and the other (the CNS depressant) triggers the parasympathetic nervous system.

I've been looking for the bit in bold for ages.
This opens doors.

Striving for balance.

SB_UK
08-27-15, 05:57 AM
Intuitively (in matched order)

male archetype
stimulant eg amphetamine (blood glucose elevation)
SNS
glutamate
anterior HPA
glucose
+

female archetype
narcotic eg benzodiazepenes/opioids
PNS
GABA
posterior HPA
fat
- eg respiratory slow down

These are balanced duals.

SB_UK
08-27-15, 06:01 AM
Peculiar to the posterior pituitary - few hormones produced.

oxytocin
vasopressin

associated with 'love' eg
Previous studies have shown that the neurotransmitters oxytocin and vasopressin play a major part in inducing and regulating the formation of the pair bond.. ....
http://www.nature.com/news/gene-switches-make-prairie-voles-fall-in-love-1.13112

Anterior HPA - predominantly the 'growth' (not maintenance) lifecycle geared towards procreation.

Physical Love
Higher love - pair-bond formation as end-point to the pre-programmed growth cycle (endocrine anterior HPA) ?

-*-

But the pituitary has 1 higher endocrine organ - pineal gland.

Must associate with pair-bond bonding ?
As the route towards rationalising mind (ie eliminating illogical immoral ideas), opening the doors to perception (capacity to handle sensory information),telepathy and endogenous short chain fatty acid production ?

SB_UK
08-27-15, 06:17 AM
Intuitively (in matched order)

male archetype
stimulant eg amphetamine (blood glucose elevation)
SNS
glutamate
anterior HPA
glucose
+

female archetype
narcotic eg benzodiazepenes/opioids
PNS
GABA
posterior HPA
fat
- eg respiratory slow down

These are balanced duals.

+
selfish

-
social

1.Macdonald K, Macdonald TM. The peptide that binds: a systematic review of oxytocin and its prosocial effects in humans. Harvard Rev Psychiatry 2010; 18: 1–21.

-*-

We're in a sliding scale of selfish programming into social functioning and because of environmental structure being hoisted around our selfish programming are arresting ourselves from acquiring moral (logical,rational,social) nature.

-*-

The single factor which keeps human beings from becoming better.

The addictive carrot of money, the violent stick of fear of poverty.

-*-


Eliminating money solves our problems.
Ensuring a social infrastructure where people need not do anything and only do something (work) if it provides them personal reward (rationally moral).
A simple education in ToE(Stephen Hawking - a theory of everything would in principle be simple enough for people to understand).
An education into rational morality ie systems which're put in place for human benefit (rationally) - nuclear bombs are not put in place for human benefit.

Lunacie
08-27-15, 09:02 AM
In the video, in this thread, Dr Barkley says the more stimulant medication we take, the more emotional blunting occurs. (Paraphrasing)

Why don't we all prefer non stimulants?

Why do some people prefer both stimulants and non stimulants?

Why do some people prefer stimulants?


P

The non-stimulantss don't provide the same focus and concentration as the
stimulants for many people.

High doses of stimulants blunt the emotions instead of regulating them.

The non-stimulants help regulate the emotions.

Taking them together can allow the stimulants to be used at a lower dose,
providing focus and concentration as well as emotional regulation.

mildadhd
08-27-15, 08:31 PM
The non-stimulantss don't provide the same focus and concentration as the
stimulants for many people.

High doses of stimulants blunt the emotions instead of regulating them.

The non-stimulants help regulate the emotions.

Taking them together can allow the stimulants to be used at a lower dose,
providing focus and concentration as well as emotional regulation.


The stimulant medication I take blunts (regulates) my emotions.

The more medication I take, the more it regulates (blunts) my emotions.

The less I take the less it blunts (regulates) my emotions.

SB_UK described why I choose to take medication.


..Emotional lability - problem - 'flying off the handle'.
Desire to be emotionally stable.




Development of executive function (self-regulation) would not occur without emotions.

The neuroanatomy of emotions works without the neuroanatomy of self-regulation (executive function)

But neuroanatomy of executive function (self-regulation) cannot work without the neuroanatomy of emotions.

One of the points I am trying to make is, we must consider the primary emotional response systems and early implicit emotional experiences to be aware of how our executive function develop.



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SB_UK
08-28-15, 03:52 AM
So ... ...

One path leads to emotional lability and the stimulants eliminate swings by disconnecting emotion.
Another path leads to emotional balance

- which 'ironically' is similar to the increasingly emotional instability + stimulant route.

Problem.

Yes they work - but stimulants are 'masking' the underlying problem.

-*-

I'm afraid that this may well represent the Achilles heal of the entire field of pharmacology.

Or back around to Hippocrates.

For prevention is immeasurably better than 'cure' (which doesn't work).

SB_UK
08-28-15, 04:28 AM
POST-EDIT -- MISSED 30 MINUTE DEADLINE


So ... ...

One path leads to emotional lability and the stimulants eliminate swings by disconnecting emotion.
Another path leads to emotional balance

- which 'ironically' is similar to the increasingly emotional instability + stimulant route.

Problem.

Yes they work - but stimulants are 'masking' the underlying problem.

-*-

I'm afraid that this may well represent the Achilles heal of the entire field of pharmacology.

Or back around to Hippocrates.

For prevention is immeasurably better than 'cure' (which doesn't work).

-*-

So what's the stimulant doing ?

Simulating emotional balance by eliminating emotional reactivity.
I've observed this effect at sub 60mg/day doses.

-*-

Usually suggest - that the stimulant supplies 'reward' in a bottle ie kids the brain into thinking it's having fun.
Alongside eliminating 'distress'.

+ carrot, - stick.

-*-

Emotional stability (balance) is obviously the key.

The entire field of physiological homeostasis seems to rest on maintaining balance.

-*-

Where's this going ?


social, personal quality, personally rewarding pursuits cf voluntaryism <- Human being choice -> addictive (selfish) pursuits (epidemiologically proven to kill us) cf capitalism

relates to

decreasing emotional lability <- Human being choice -> increasing emotional lability <-- STIMULANTS WORK HERE

However - it is to be assumed that if we take

BALANCE <- decreasing emotional lability <- Human being choice

Then at BALANCE (WISDOM) - the stimulant meds would cease to work - as there's no lability to countermand.

-*-

All that's wrong with people are the choices that people make (even though people do not see them as choices) in a world in which the wrong choices are encouraged.
How can one nourish the personally rewarding scheme when the selfishly rewarding (quest for money,power,sex) scheme is the only one which is encouraged by society ?

SB_UK
08-28-15, 07:41 AM
So - the capacity to regulate emotions which ADDer meds confer - simply relates to inhibiting emotional lability through disconnecting the emotional subsystem.

That makes sense - it's really not useful for concentration for the mind to be screaming in pain whilst trying to attend - however permitting the mind to pay attention by switching off a natural protective mechanism is a bit like allowing an individual to hold a red hot pan without feeling any pain.

Short term gains - but the distress reactions is protective.

We're not meant to overrule it - instead to listen to it.
To amend our lives in tune with it.
And thereby to use it as our diving rod towards living life.

-*-

What brings the ADDer distress ?

Wasting one's life in meaningless workplace tasks simply to acquire a pension.

SB_UK
08-28-15, 08:50 AM
Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2xhlIIueZY

2.5 minutes in - no (emotional) mood swings on zero carb diet
- laser-like focus

Core ADDer problems.

Keto-adapted adders.

mildadhd
08-29-15, 09:06 PM
One can also distinguish between PANIC/GRIEF and FEAR on clinical grounds because they mobilize different automatic responses.

There are two major branches in the automatic nervous system.

The sympathetic branch readies an animal for an active response.

So, for example, the sympathetic nervous system may elevate heart rate and respiration, thereby providing oxygen for burning elevated levels of blood sugar that are necessary for taking flight.

It may likewise dilate pupils in order to increase vigilance.

The parasympathetic branch, on the other hand, takes over when animals are in a more passive state.

Under the influence of the parasympathetic nervous system, the heart rate slows, breathing is regular, and pupils remain undilated.

The parasympathetic nervous system is also sensitive to emotional changes, and it promotes tears, salivation, and sexual arousal.


Anticipatory anxiety (conditioned FEAR) is characterized by generalized apprehensive tension, with a tendency toward various symptoms stemming from the sympathetic arm of the automatic nervous system.

So symptoms like a rapid heartbeat, sweating, gastrointestinal upset, and increased muscle tension characterized FEAR.

Manifestations of PANIC/GRIEF, however, are accompanied by feelings of weakness and depressive lassitude, with more autonomic symptoms of a parasympathetic nature, such as a strong urge to cry, often accompanied by tightness in the chest and the feeling of having a lump in the throat.

While FEAR beckons one to escape from situations that intensify anxiety, PANIC/GRIEF prompts thoughts about lost objects of affection and impels one to seek the company of the people one loves.


Although there are distinct emotion systems, each characterized by specific affects and behaviors, they frequently interact in complicated ways...



-Panksepp/Biven, "The Archaeology of Mind", P 189


i!i i!i

SB_UK
08-30-15, 03:25 AM
So fear + panic which'll often occur togethe operate on 'opposing' wings of the Autonomic nervous system.

Travels away from a basal level of balance between the two 'opposing' halves - we'd still have balance but fluctuating.


The two sides of a see-saw wouldn't be horizontal, but moving up and down wildly - which is 'balanced' overall - but not the basal balance of pretty much still horizontal.

What causes fear/panic ?

Loss of control over one's life.

What happens in the Western world ?

You're completley at the mercy of people who have some special knowledge or tool for making something that's required in your life to work.

And the problem that we as a society has ?
Is that the person you're at the mercy of, wants to trap you in a dependence relationship so you spend as much MONEY as possible on them.

Fear/Panic in the Western world
- all comes down to money driving the addictive love/desire of money.

You're free, if you no longer need it to live a life.

SB_UK
08-30-15, 03:56 AM
So the emotional system talks through the autonomic nervous system.

To quell the AND we 'quell' emotions ie reduce them to a balanced (basal balanced) equilibrium.

What causes emotional mood swings ?

Physical distress - Not being in ketosis.
Psychological distress - Interactions with other people.

Physical distress - easily overcome.

But psych distress - to be overcome requires people who operate in line with rational morality.

Requires - a mind which is logically consistent with wellbeing.
Species, individual, future generations including all other species - as we are defined by our wider ecosystem.

-*-

So - 3 levels to brain

3 chained integrals.

http://postgrowth.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/triune.jpg

1. 'reptilian' - sum of cells makes 1 individual - completely selfish operating on a program defining his/her own wellbeing without regard to others.
2. 'mammalian' - social motivation enters representing integral of individuals - a species which operates to its best interests but cares little about other species - maybe referencing 'tribes' instead of species eg tribal warfare which characterizes human history mostly by colour, religion, nationality.
3. 'human' - sum of species - representing wisdom - an understanding that there's a subtle interconnection between all species from the inanimate up - and we need to maintain our place in this ecosystem to exist.

The completed, wise mind - at the final stage can see all of the many problems which incomplete minds up to Stage 3 fall into.

It's a holistic model of reality but referencing a restricted model of interventions.

Thought is constantly creating problems that way and then trying to solve them. But as it tries to solve them it makes it worse because it doesn’t notice that it's creating them, and the more it thinks, the more problems it creates.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bohm

mildadhd
08-30-15, 09:40 AM
Please leave room for learning, it's the first time I remember reading about David Bohm?

But that being said, his wiki link touches on some topics that I feel and think about daily.

Example, often when watching the news stories, or other random stories, forums, etc, about psychological health, emotions are often considered not physical, and separate?

But emotions are not separate, bottom up emotions are the physical foundation of top down higher thoughts. (See triune brain)

The biology of top down thoughts (explicit) do make things much harder to figure out.

But comparatively.

The biology of the 7 bottom up emotions (implicit) do make things much easier to figure out.

Explicit biology is built upon implicit biology.

(Have not studied quantum physics, or Bohm, yet, but am very interested in learning more)

Thanks SB_UK

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SB_UK
08-30-15, 10:31 AM
The basis underlying everything from the bottom up is feeling (emotion) 'good'.

Problem is that each level of the triune brain has a different model for feeling 'good'

- which is problematic as they're not compatible.

reptilian - hierarchy

wisdom - enforced equality

SB_UK
08-30-15, 10:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Sxv-sUYtM

SB_UK
08-30-15, 10:44 AM
Nobody with mind can be happy unless they do no harm.

mildadhd
08-30-15, 10:52 AM
3)awareness and self regulation (conscious)

2)learning and memories (subconscious)

1)primary emotional systems (conscious)

Preverbal Implicit level is hard to talk about, (paraphrasing Einstein, Panksepp, Mate...) but that is what makes the affective terms based on the biology proposed by Panksepp so important in my opinion.

Not sure if I am specifically addressing the terminology you are addressing, but is this a tertiary (verbal, explicit) problem?

Please leave room for my learning.


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SB_UK
08-30-15, 10:54 AM
'if you feel like a room without a roof'
->
resonant synchrony with the eternal infinite fundamental substrate.

You're free

Happiness shatters the glass roof of earthly existence.

'if happiness is the truth'
->
provides access into phase with the eternal infinite fundamental substrate.

Happiness is (effectively) the truth.

eternal infinite fundamental substrate = true reality = fundamental substance = true reality

-*-

problem

1
"point is to be happy - attaining the right defn of happiness"

2
Problem is that each level of the triune brain has a different model for feeling 'good'
- which is problematic as they're not compatible.



reptilian - hierarchy
wisdom [properly human] - enforced equality

SB_UK
08-30-15, 03:14 PM
Nobody with mind can be happy unless they do no harm.

The Hippocratic Oath (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath) includes the promise "to abstain from doing harm"
Problem

Do you know whether you're about to harm ?

Solution

Wisdom - where one may not know the right answer - but by virtue of this structure of mind - one has the capacity to ask the right questions ... and ... to identify whether the answers offered to those questions are satisfactory -

where satisfactory = logically consistent with all other information housed within wisdom logical structure of mind.

-*-

Do no harm.
Prevention is immeasurably better than cure.

Global capitalism warring factions ->- to ->- Global voluntaryism one world village transition must occur.

global village

And then all we need do is be the best we'd personally find rewarding to be.
No coercion.

Enter/Exit the matrix.

http://radioactivebodega.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/m2reloaded-zion08.jpg


In the early 1960s, McLuhan wrote that the visual, individualistic print culture would soon be brought to an end by what he called "electronic interdependence": when electronic media (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_media) replace visual culture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_culture) with aural/oral culture. In this new age, humankind will move from individualism and fragmentation to a collective identity, with a "tribal base." McLuhan's coinage for this new social organization is the global village (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Village_%28term%29).[45] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan#cite_note-45)
The Integral of individual is collective.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFpK-0G_RBOqSZZMAzPL0p_3agvOiGS28YqK4Bb2C-muFoMsve

The integral of collectives (all structures held together by an evolutionary iteration of the 'social impulse' is) completed mind.

An understanding of human context.

mildadhd
08-30-15, 07:26 PM
I like the compatibility of the thoughts and feelings.

Doing no harm.


Harm reduction.

(Layhumanly paraphrasing Mate)

***

SEEKING/enthusiasm

LUST/love

CARE/love

PLAY/friendship/joy

(Layhumanly paraphrasing Panksepp)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KanfLqKXYg


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mildadhd
08-31-15, 08:37 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5smTLCKkUA4

Lunacie
08-31-15, 12:42 PM
One of the points I am trying to make is, we must consider the primary emotional response systems and early implicit emotional experiences to be aware of how our executive function develop.

So this new thread was just a hook to pull people into the same old discussion
... top down or bottom up. It's always the same point though, nothing new.

mildadhd
08-31-15, 08:28 PM
So this new thread was just a hook to pull people into the same old discussion
... top down or bottom up. It's always the same point though, nothing new.

Please elaborate.


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mildadhd
08-31-15, 08:50 PM
So this new thread was just a hook to pull people into the same old discussion
... top down or bottom up. It's always the same point though, nothing new.

Lunacie,

What are "bottom-up" and "top-down"?


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Lunacie
08-31-15, 09:28 PM
Lunacie,

What are "bottom-up" and "top-down"?


P

You're the one who keeps saying that emotions are a bottom-up aspect,
and thinking or logic is a top-down aspect. And everything you post seems
to lead back, sooner or later, to the emotions or bottom-up aspect.

I'm not saying that isn't an important aspect to consider, but just when I
think you're expanding on that and including other aspects and I post some
responses, you stop the discussion on a dime and say that what you're
interested in is the bottom-up or emotional aspect.

I'd just be interested in a discussion that isn't so narrow in focus.

mildadhd
08-31-15, 10:32 PM
You're the one who keeps saying that emotions are a bottom-up aspect,
and thinking or logic is a top-down aspect. And everything you post seems
to lead back, sooner or later, to the emotions or bottom-up aspect.

I'm not saying that isn't an important aspect to consider, but just when I
think you're expanding on that and including other aspects and I post some
responses, you stop the discussion on a dime and say that what you're
interested in is the bottom-up or emotional aspect.

I'd just be interested in a discussion that isn't so narrow in focus.

To discuss about aspects of both bottom-up and top-down neuroscience.

At least two people must use both bottom-up and top-down neuroscientific terminology.

If you look, I try to discuss bottom-up and top-down topics, using both bottom-up and top-down terminology.

Could you quote any thread discussions where you include both bottom-up and top-down terminology in your posts?

The discussion always stops when bottom-up terminology is not considered, in thread discussions about the bottom-up and top-down topics.

Lunacie, I can't force you to use both bottom-up and top-down neuroscientific terminology.




P

mildadhd
08-31-15, 10:50 PM
What discussion is more broad and more scientifically accurate?

A discussion that considers only top-down scientific terminology?

Or.

A discussion that considers both bottom-up and top-down scientific terminology?


I think a discussion that considers both bottom-up and top-down scientific terminology.


P

mildadhd
08-31-15, 11:17 PM
Lunacie,

I am wondering if you really have any interest in discussing psychology from both bottom-up and top-down?




P

SB_UK
09-01-15, 01:46 AM
primary emotional response systems and early implicit emotional experiences to be aware of how our executive function develop
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/oct/02/nurseries-childcare-pre-school-cortisol

In 1986, a young American academic published a paper where he warned, tentatively, that babies who were looked after in daycare were showing signs of increased levels of aggression and disobedience in later life.



without even reading the article the URL gives it away

theguardian.com/
lifeandstyle/
2010/
oct/
02/
nurseries-childcare-pre-school-cortisol

ADHD is a Distress reaction in a sensitive child.

2 components.

SB_UK
09-01-15, 01:48 AM
who wanted mothers to remain barefoot and pregnant and stay at home.

That's what my wife wanted also ^^^

SB_UK
09-01-15, 01:52 AM
He left the US, partly because of the outcry, and is now director of the Institute for the Study of Children, Families and Social Issues at Birkbeck in London. Back to Bohm from above.

Due to his youthful Communist affiliations, Bohm was targeted during the McCarthy era, prompting him to leave the United States. He pursued his scientific career in [the UK] where in 1961, Bohm was made Professor of Theoretical Physics at the University of London's Birkbeck College.

Birkbeck maverick free thinkers.

SB_UK
09-01-15, 02:00 AM
He continues: "There is now overwhelming evidence that daycare causes children to have abnormal cortisol levels, probably increasing the risk of behavioural problems like aggression, fearfulness and hyperactivity."

Exactly

ADHD

Sensitivity in an insensitive environment.

2 components.

Sensitivity - inherited (ketoadaptation)
Insensitive environment - Day care from age 0 as assessed (see article) by salivary cortisol levels with the obvious controls in place (home care / home schooled).

SB_UK
09-01-15, 02:07 AM
This debate has been going on since the 1950s when John Bowlby (http://psychology.jrank.org/pages/826/John-Bowlby.html) first developed his attachment theory.

Noting all of the studies covered to date on site of

cortisol vs oxytocin related to attachment.

And Peripheral's graphs on rate of neural development (0 - 2 - 7 years) and effects of stress obliterating neural development.

-*-

Still ADHD medical definition can be closely allied to distress in this key window - but that's not the explanatory component of the sensitivity in ADDers.

There's nowhere to hide from [di]stress in a world which bears inequality.

Even small children are distressed by pictures of beggars, those who're starving, those who're living in shanty towns etc -
it's all distressing.

SB_UK
09-01-15, 02:10 AM
http://www.simplypsychology.org/bowlby.html
Bowlby suggested that a child would initially form only one attachment and that the attachment figure acted as a secure base for exploring the world. The attachment relationship acts as a prototype for all future social relationships so disrupting it can have severe consequences.

Whether mother or father but most often mother.

SB_UK
09-01-15, 02:15 AM
^^^

Excellent reference - wil cover in more detail.

It's a key component to the medical definition of ADHD.
But not to sensitivity.

The all important question is - will problems associated with ADHD surface in the presence of 2 years of appropriate care.

Yes they will.

They'll just be far worse if the first 2 years of intense neural development is disturbed by the developing nervous system swimming within a sea of cortisol.

What does cortisol do ?
Mobilizes glucose

So - what would an excess blood glucose level do to neural development ?

See general argument - that blood glucose associates with mitosis and ketones associate with autophagy (neural pruning) and re-connection.

SB_UK
09-01-15, 02:23 AM
There's something missing here.

We need some form of connection between attachment and learning social behaviour via mirror neurones.

Suggestion - that we actually intrinsically gain (via the Mirror neurone system) social-appropriateness via learning through attachment in the first 2 years.

Now that's neat - because it does lead neatly into why an ADDer customised to social living without an appropriate training (subconscious through simple mirroring) in social behaviour would be 'lost'.

Definitely - to attribute psychopathic behaviour with 0 - 2 year failure in training in social behaviour through attachment figure in social appropriateness.

ie to feel happy when attachment figure happy.
ie to feel sad when attachment figure sad.

All of which gives rise to the nasty world we're in know - where the extension of social apropriateness is meant to envelop our interactions with all other people

- but in the absence of being trained at the first stage in the social contract

- we seed a society of psychopathic lunatics desperately chasing their own demise through engaging in Western Society's list of addictive highs - predominantly money, power and sex.

SB_UK
09-01-15, 02:27 AM
http://lindagraham-mft.net/resources/published-articles/the-neuroscience-of-attachment/
The Neuroscience of Attachment

the social engagement system of the brainstem, the fight-flight response of the amygdala, mirror neurons, bonding hormones, the social-emotional bias of the right hemisphere, the positive bias of the left hemisphere, the role of the pre-frontal cortex in attunement and learning the “rules” of attachment, the resonance circuits we can use in empathic therapeutic relationships to catalyze brain change in our clients.



^^^ another good ref - to be returned to

SB_UK
09-01-15, 02:31 AM
Summarising (all of the above)

The socially-adapted HSP needs to learn social behaviour via atachment figure between 0 - 2 years in order to develop into an individual that can (in later life) derive reward from social behaviour; this occurs through mirroring (copying ie the adoption of appropriate circuitry) which reflects feeling the socially appropriate (to contrast with psychopathy) response ie to actually feel bad when others feel bad, to feel good when others feel good.
Note - association between psychopathy and systematizing (sophisticated, calculating, selfish) excellence.

SB_UK
09-01-15, 03:50 AM
Note - association between psychopathy and systematizing (sophisticated, calculating, selfish) excellence.Or as Sherlock Holmes states - high-functioning sociopath with a deep dislike of his parents.

Can nearly reach autism now.

-1-
Simon Baron Cohen - enriched in systematizing-systematizing parents (enriched in Universities)
-2-
Problems associated with empathy

All falling neatly into the cortisol vs oxytocin model of social interaction / empathy failing between years 0 - 2 with the consequence over-development of systematizing capacity
- high-functioning sociopath.

ADD in maternal environment - well-fed non ketogenic - over-growth - associating with autism.

Leading into schizophrenia - Dutch Hunger Winter study - the opposite (absence of nutrients) leads to schizophrenia

- autism is the male archetype to the female archetype of schizophrenia.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201104/autism-and-ketogenic-diets
The kids were placed on the diet in 4 week intervals, followed by 2 weeks of anything goes, so on and off. The kids' urine was tested with ketostix and their serum checked for beta hydroxybutyrate (a ketone) to measure the amount of ketosis. After 6 months, the diets were discontinued, and the kids were evaluated monthly for another 6 months. But for some kids, the improvement was exceptional-*-

How does the CNS work ?

If we train we become better.

We're meant to train to be social between 0 - 2 - 7 years ... ... prior to the human mind taking social behaviour to an entirely different and entirely abstract other level.
Instead we operate in the exact opposite direction and train to be anti-social taking advantage of the brain towards the creation of systems which repress (legal,financial) rather than set free.


We're meant to train to be social between 0 - 2 - 7 years ... ... prior to the human mind taking social behaviour to an entirely different and entirely abstract other level.
From which arises a collective species project on every aspect of beauty - from the back garden to the virtual garden.

SB_UK
09-01-15, 08:22 AM
Flicking through

'An introduction to early childhood studies (http://www.amazon.co.uk/An-Introduction-Early-Childhood-Studies/dp/144627067X)'

How about something as simple as

3 layers of mind / brain

human
mammalian
reptilian

reptilian -> emotion <- homeostasis ie things like feeling bad when hungry <- essential
mammalian -> social <- continuation of species through progeny<- essential
human -> cognitive <- operating in logical consistency with one's own survival <- essential

The individual is re-defined as s/he develops throught the 3 stages.

bottom-up development
but top-down control (when the top is constructed) - however with top built upon the bottom ?

SB_UK
09-01-15, 08:32 AM
Summarising (all of the above)

The socially-adapted HSP needs to learn social behaviour via atachment figure between 0 - 2 years in order to develop into an individual that can (in later life) derive reward from social behaviour; this occurs through mirroring (copying ie the adoption of appropriate circuitry) which reflects feeling the socially appropriate (to contrast with psychopathy) response ie to actually feel bad when others feel bad, to feel good when others feel good.
Note - association between psychopathy and systematizing (sophisticated, calculating, selfish) excellence.


And prior to this stage - we have the 'emotion'al stage which is simply connecting the correct emotional response to some adverse homeostatic condition -

ie to cry and not whistle a happy tune when you're scared.

SB_UK
09-01-15, 08:40 AM
The individual is re-defined as s/he develops throught the 3 stages.


p9 (An intro to ...)
Patterns of thinking are qualitatively distinct at different stages and each stage represents the child making an intellectual leap from one mode of thinking about the world to a new more advanced level of thinking.

^^ the model of understanding specifies the individual's behaviour

You can't earn money when you realise it prevents us from achieving anything worthwhile.

SB_UK
09-01-15, 08:53 AM
p9
Piaget's 4 stages added
-1- sensorimotor - 0-2 years -autonomous - homeostasis - involuntary - emotion
-2- pre-operational - 2-7 years - egocentrism,centration,animism - learning social behaviour - social appropriatenesss - to feel bad when others feel bad as in actually
-3- concrete operational - 7-12 years - thought (not abstract) - to know - a form of face value learning where doubt is not embraced eg fundamentalists in all fields
-4- formal operational - 12+ years - thought (Abstract) - culminating in wisdom ('I know that I know nothing')

But you do know 'stuff' ?
No - arbitrary names or dates - and everything we know that makes sense doesn't seem to feel like knowledge.
It more feels like knowledge (not understanding) if we have to exert ourselves to retain the information ie can't work it out from 1st principles.



So suggestion

emotion development <- social learning with attachment figure ie mother <- to focus here is wise - but I think we need to focus on all stages of development; the most grounded 2 year old will be ripped apart in an aggressive kindergarten - definition 1 of play.
next
social development <- social learning with peer group - definition 2 of play.
next
cognitive development <- social learning through teacher - definition 3 of play.

next
wisdom <- social interaction between peer group - or not - as long as we do no harm - definition 1 of play.

Changing model of stage of neural development.
Changing model of play.
Changing model of learning.
Cerebellar automatising learning at each stage ie actually changing us in a manner (as we progress) in which we can't return.

-endpoint-
Problem
ADHD developmental delay ... ... ...

Why ?
p 15
Approaches to formal schooling have been heavily influenced by Piaget eg notion of cognitive readiness for determining when and what a child should be taught.And none of this ^^^ is applied to the ADDer - returning to the idea that the ADDer's problems could be sorted out through special schooling which only pemits progression when the kid is ready.

Children aren't pork pies on a conveyor belt.

SB_UK
09-01-15, 09:22 AM
Summarising all of the above



Sequential models of learning reflecting our evolutionary heritage.
Like the foundations of a building, we must complete one level before moving onto the next.
The idea of 'emotional social cognitive' readiness being required in teaching ie to not progress a child until they're ready.
The notion of a developmental delay in ADDer which means that they're prematurely thrust into more advanced levels of learning/training/social interaction than they're ready for - or more simply How do you build Level 4 of a tower block without foundations.
The adult will appear to be arrested in one of Piaget's stages.

The fastest route to wisdom is through working out the evolutionary/divine/creative mechanism ... of nothing more than the orthogonal arrayed standing wave.
From time (frame of boson) to the 2 dimensions of space (phenomenological duality).

SB_UK
09-01-15, 09:26 AM
So

Re: effects of ADHD medications on emotional-affects.

Summarising all of the above



Sequential models of learning reflecting our evolutionary heritage.
Like the foundations of a building, we must complete one level before moving onto the next.
The idea of 'emotional social cognitive' readiness being required in teaching ie to not progress a child until they're ready.
The notion of a developmental delay in ADDer which means that they're prematurely thrust into more advanced levels of learning/training/social interaction than they're ready for - or more simply How do you build Level 4 of a tower block without foundations.
The adult will appear to be arrested in one of Piaget's stages.

The fastest route to wisdom is through working out the evolutionary/divine/creative mechanism ... of nothing more than the orthogonally arrayed standing wave.
From time (frame of boson) to the 2 dimensions of space (fermion,phenomenological duality).





Stimulant meds simply stop the distress of social interaction with peers before the child is emotionally/socially/cognitively ready for that level of interaction.

SB_UK
09-01-15, 10:44 AM
How do you tell when a child's ready to move on ? ie 'readiness'

They get bored doing what they used to enjoy.

Their model of 'play' evolves.

-*-

Language is very definitely a magnifying glass on the structure of mind below.

Through listening to the language used, we arrive at an understanding of the structure of mind associated with the individual who's speaking.

In line with Buddhism's 'right speech' - to speak without any malice or unkind intention defines a mind which has 'arrived'.

Up until that point - it's important to note the stage of language development/language usage and to teach to the level.

-*-

So Chomsky's language acquisition device and Piaget's all children are scientists (first few chapters of that book) are one and the same.

Human beings are evolutionarily thrust into understanding reality (develop a complete mind); the words used by an individual change their meaning based around the point that they're on, on the path to fielding a mind which is consistent with the nature of reality (as in all of it).

You can't simply ignore observational data.

Lunacie
09-01-15, 12:38 PM
Lunacie,

I am wondering if you really have any interest in discussing psychology from both bottom-up and top-down?




P

The title of the thread is "effects of ADHD medications on emotional-affects."
That's what I was replying to. Now the topic seems to have changed.

I am not interested in psychology in any direction.

Little Missy
09-01-15, 12:50 PM
This is all re-hash.

SB_UK
09-01-15, 01:05 PM
post 65

-1- sensorimotor - 0-2 years -autonomous - homeostasis - involuntary - emotionEmotion as outward expression of internal physiological parameters (physiology).

Cortisol (glucocorticoid+mineralocorticoid) are responsible for correcting physiological parameters.

Making 'distress' (physiological distress) - as the fundamental level upon which social 'learning' builds upon.

And physiological distress to a large extent will be determined by food.

Since processed foods are tremendously out of sync with physiological concentrations of ions, sugars, pH forming ... ...

The cross-over from genome to connectome occurs at the level of physiological homeostatic maintenance - from which further development (neural) then takes us away from 'reptilian' through social through knowing into wisdom.

-*-

I think that this means nail physiological (proper foods) ketosis as the fundamental level / cross-over from genome mediated into neural re-arrangement models of behaviour.

mildadhd
09-01-15, 11:12 PM
The three conditions absolutely essential to optimal human brain development are nutrition, physical security and consistent emotional nurturing...

...importance of this point cannot be overstated: emotional nurturance is an absolute requirement for healthy neurobiological brain development.

"Human connections create neuronal connections"--in the succinct phrase of child psychiatrist Daniel Siegel, a founding member of UCLA's Center for Culture, Brain and Development. (*8). ..


-Gabor Mate M.D., "In The Realm of Hungry Ghosts", p 185.


-what is optimal nutrition? (see SB_UK)
-what is optimal physical security?
-what is optimal consistent emotional nurturing?


I helped take care of a young dog.

I cannot remember exactly how long, but I never fed Dog ever in the beginning, until I was sure.

Only played with chew toys (pit bull), balls, sticks, brisk walks, free played, etc..

And Dog would do things I asked, just as if I conditioned him with food, my roommate was not present during playing. (My roommate fed him)

I would tell him to come over and sit (then I would put on his chain), etc.

I was working on the right conditions to get Dog to go in the tub himself.

I needed to line the tube with towels so he could get a grip.

Fill it with a few inches of water.

Then throw his ball in the tub.

But Dog would not go in the tub.

He would let me hold my arm in front of him so he could hold on and try, but still would not go in the tub.

Then without intention, after looking away and giving up, Dog went in the tub and got the ball.

Every time I did this experiment, only when I looked away Dog would go in the tub and get the ball.

My home was soaked!

I was working getting Dog to stay in the tub, when his caregiver returned.

I did eventual give him some food, and he acted the same.

Dog was conditioned with unconditioned SEEKING, CARE and PLAY.


P

mildadhd
09-01-15, 11:46 PM
The separation stimulated my GRIEF/sadness system and I cried uncontrollably for a few days, after Dog was gone.

I find it really important to note the GRIEF system (separation distress) is a separate system, with different chemistries, etc, than the CARE system (attachment eustress)

When the GRIEF system is stimulated, opioids CARE and PLAY, are blocked? SuperDuperlayhuman.

I need to take some time to learn the neurophysiology better.

side note, SB_UK once again you have exceeded my neurophysiological understanding and given me lots of things to look up.

Thanks to your help, have been able to control my arthritis to the point where I am able provide a less distressful life, thanks for your persistence.

P

mildadhd
09-02-15, 12:12 AM
Also, Dog's caregiver locked the dog's in a cage at night, because Dog was to hyperactive.

During Dog's visit, Dog learned sleep with his cage door opened.


P

SB_UK
09-02-15, 12:48 AM
This is our problem:
we're (human being stipulated behaviour) governed by 2 key systems.

The genetics and neuroscience brigade.

Genome -> selfish reward system (not meant pejoratively) though that's what it becomes

gives way to

Connectome/Memome -> socail/collaborative reward system, as you become personally better with collaboration and not ^^^ form of competition

We're (because of the explosion in capacity to study genome) putting too much emphasis on genome -

- where 'genome' passes the reigns of control to 'connectome/memome' at a very early stage (0 - 2 years from above) towards the individual developing cerebellar sensorimotor balanced loops ie intrinsic quality in human beings.

We're developmentally all genome up until an early age - but then become all about quality.

The transition from genome to connectome occurs with the changing of the blood glucose to fat/ketone fuel as model for metabolism.

This associates with epigenetic change (the HDAC inhibitor of b-hydroxybutyrate) which was an outstanding finding:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23223453

shutting down the genomic stage through closing off the growth hormone / nuclear hormone receptor's functioning via throwing the acetylation / deacetylation switch on the regulation of gene expression.

The 1st stage - integral of cells occurs at the level of the hormone.

autocrine
paracrine
endocrine

- as the first stage of organising the collection of cells in a human body into a single functional unit.

The integral of cells to make 1 individual - the autonomic/emotion/involuntary/reptilian stage which oversees genome to connectome transition.

And then the slow endocrine model gives way to the fast neural model for synchronizing the various parts of the body into one ... ... and we're away.

The genome to connectome/memome transition.

What is ADHD ?

Sensitivity.

At what level.

See Markham's Intense World Theory for the mechanism by which increased information is uploaded into the system.

Also - an Introduction to early childhood studies for the theories on increased informational upload / handling associated with development.

And finally to suggest that the ADDer simply represents increased sensitivity on these 3 levels.

ADHD [== sensitivity at empathic, systematizing and sensory levels]

reptilian -> sensory
mammalian -> empathizing
human -> systematizing

-*-

Evolution of man through re-arrangement of neural structures towards increased informational upload.

SB_UK
09-02-15, 12:54 AM
In summary

One needs to work for personal reward (becoming better) and not material (money) reward, by definition of the key determinant of our behaviour - which just became a whole lot more pressing in ADHD ... ... achieving personal quality.

ADDers don't pay attention to tasks which do not result in personal betterment.

Society (current) is built around humans as automata performing tasks of little more complexity than prodding machine dispensed liquefied pork with a stylus into pork pie casings.

'this life is more than just a readthrough'

SB_UK
09-02-15, 01:04 AM
Ever so close.

SB_UK
09-02-15, 10:49 AM
valproic acid causes autism.

valproic acid treats epilepsy.

valproic acid - HDAC inhibitor.

This story has just unwound ... ... ...

preganancy - diabetic ketoacidosis

-*-

The age of mother.
The metabolic environment of mother.

-*-

Development

genome paradigm -> neural paradigm
blood glucose diminishes as dominant fuel -> ketones commence as dominant fuel
growth of physicla body -> maintenance (neural reconnectivity)
--- Transition at 2 years of age approximately ---

Ketone exposure prior to 2 years of age and neural reconnectivity (Markram's Intense World Theory) occurs prematurely.

This type of re-connectivity should not occur until wisdom.

Enhanced sensitivity at 3 stages of neural development.

1 Sensory - ovely stimulated - accepted
2 Emotional - overly stimulated - see Lunacie's comments on autists feeling too much emotion/empathy
3 Systematizing - overly stimulated -> remarkable systematizing prowess

DEFINITELY

mildadhd
09-02-15, 12:09 PM
SB_UK,

I am going to focus on the nutrition and neurophysiology, and see what happens, be back in approx a month and a half.




3 3 3 -neocortical, tertiary level of sensitivity (awareness and self-regulation)
3 3 3 -upper limbic, secondary level of sensitivity ( learning and implicit memory)
3 3 3 -deeply subcortical, primary level of sensitivity

h e s
o m e
m o n
e t s
o i o
s o r
t n y
a a
t l
i
c


Order of importance depends on the context.


P

SB_UK
09-02-15, 01:23 PM
sensory / balance \ motion
sensory /cerebellum \ (e) motion
afferent neurone / interneurone \ efferent neurone

afferent cortical / cerebellar \ efferent cortical

It's all sensorimotor cortical loops balanced by a cerebellar interconnection.

3 contexts for sensory - homeostasis - motor

Each more complex (conferring a more sophisticated worldview) than the last.

SB_UK
09-02-15, 01:28 PM
Schizophrenia - increased in children in utero during Dutch Hunger Winter

Starvation - violent ketone generation

Ketone - stimulates neural re-arrangement - more efficient form - in emotional/empathic networks.

Schizophrenia - overly dominant empathic networks - loss of self
Emotional/empathic capacity withers

Autism - overly dominant systematizing networks - inability to lose self
Systematizing (a loose relationship with reality) capacity withers

-*-

Metabolic fuel based relationship with neural network formation.

Quality in time.

Not before we're ready.

SB_UK
09-03-15, 12:08 AM
SB_UK,

I am going to focus on the nutrition and neurophysiology, and see what happens, be back in approx a month and a half.




3 3 3 -neocortical, tertiary level of sensitivity (awareness and self-regulation)
3 3 3 -upper limbic, secondary level of sensitivity ( learning and implicit memory)
3 3 3 -deeply subcortical, primary level of sensitivity

h e s
o m e
m o n
e t s
o i o
s o r
t n y
a a
t l
i
c


Order of importance depends on the context.


P
.....sensory -> ? cognitive ? doesn't really fit
.....emotional -> mammalian
.....homeostatic -> reptilian
h e s
o m e
m o n
e t s
o i o
s o r
t n y
a a
t l
i
c

/sensory cortical-----------\ social impulse (integral of)
|-----------------cerebellar|
\motor cortical-------------/


Horizontal and Vertical replication of the same basic scheme of balancing duals (the evolutionary pattern)

eg
time -> 2 space dimensions -> gravity=social impulse
ie
out of frame standing wave (pulse) -> standing wave -> synchrony of triumviracy of space and time

SB_UK
09-03-15, 12:20 AM
Try again


1 - sensory [sensory] [affect]
2 - homeostatic
3 - emotional [motor] [effect]

(Peripheral's order)

Should be the order.

Though arising from balance is better.

2 - homeostatic [balance] <- Layer 1 of tri-une model

1 - sensory [sensory] [affect] <- Level 3 of tri-une model - systematizing
3 - emotional [motor] [effect] <- Level 2 of tri-une model - social emotions - empathizing

^^^ THIS ISN'T RIGHT YET

To be human is to have balance between a selfish and a social aspect.
What's both best for individual and best for the species.

Need to learn a selfish model (homeostasis) ie physiological needs met
Need to learn a social model ie level of social appropriateness
And the mind should be a model of consistent model incorporating compatible elements of the selfish and social.

Level 3 - balance
Level 2 - social
Level 1 - selfish

Coming out with a definition of balance on either Level 1, Level 2 or Level 3 - which could mean that the 'balance' on three separate levels - themselves 'balance' to give rise to a further property.

So starting from
[1] {{{interneurone followed by sensory-motor neurone dual}}} social impulse
ie simplest triumviracy of the CNS ie just 3 cells.
[2] Each of the 3 levels of the brain represent a variation of this pattern involving sensorimotor cortical cerebellar loops giving rise to the characteristics of reptilian, mammalian and human mind.
[3] And on completion - the 3 balance points of the reptilian, mammalian and human minds give rise to a further property - which

but still can't referene telepathy.

-*-

So balance on Level 1 - physiological homeostasis - 'selfish' - AT BALANCE --->
balance on Level 2 - ... ... - 'social' - AT BALANCE --->
balance on Level 3 - balance of 'selfish' and 'social' = a model of understanding in which both are embraced and consistent - AT BALANCE ---->

AT BALANCE OF THE 3 LEVELS
[a] homeostasis
[b] social behaviour
[c] logical consistency with species wellbeing

- SOCIAL IMPULSE THROUGH BALANCE OF LEVEL 2 OF TELEPATHY.

-*-
[B]
not right.

SB_UK
09-03-15, 12:49 AM
Level 1 - classical balance
Level 1 - introduces reptilian emotions - selfish emotions - emotions which are not bad - and are responsible for keeping the individual alive - these are required
This represents learning - ie to alter behaviour with homeostatic variation with the hypothalamus as note as the body's pan-homeostatic 'thermo'stat.

Level 2 - introduces social emotions - emotions which're required to generate a social grouping incorporating a novel reward system (see Nature Neuroscience Dec 2012 Intro to the reward system of the anterior cingulate cortex which allows the individual to obtain reward when they give); level 1 only obtains reward when the individual takes.

Level 3 - A model of understanding expressed in language which balances Level 1 and Level 2 eg our analysis of the selfish (Level 1) professions from CEO to the social (Level 2) professions eg beautician - See ABI's reference.
You can tell who belongs to which model by analysing their structure of mind through words chosen eg 'Gordon Gecko - greed is good' - Gekko reptilian.

Each of these 3 levels represents a global {{{cerebellar - sensori/motor circuit}}} forming - giving rise to the type of selfish, social, wisdom.

At completion of these global 3 levels - a Universal balance is formed between the 3 levels giving rise to:

What do I want the answer to be ?
[a] Telepathy (consistent with an evolution in language from meaningless words to words used only if worthy of speaking) fixing the species as social
[b] Endogenous fatty acid production (consistent with the benefits of ketones and the incredible difficulty of maintaining this state if we eat ie carbs knock us out)
[c] Enhanced capacity for quality (consistent with the Markram model)

[c] plausible
[b] possible - the 'Thrifty gene hypothesis' meets the current diabesity epidemic
[a] maybe - 'dopaminergic chills' in communication cf musical chiils (relating to dopamine production)

SB_UK
09-03-15, 12:56 AM
What do I want the answer to be ?
[a] Telepathy (consistent with an evolution in language from meaningless words to words used only if worthy of speaking) fixing the species as social
[b] Endogenous fatty acid production (consistent with the benefits of ketones and the incredible difficulty of maintaining this state if we eat ie carbs knock us out)
[c] Enhanced capacity for quality (consistent with the Markram model)



SENSORY - evolution eg [c] ie enhanced sensory capacity - HSP

HOMEOSTASIS - evolution eg [b] ie not needing to eat will allow the body via short chain fatty acid production/gut biome to biosynthesize our ideal homeostatic miieu.

EMOTIONAL - evolution eg [a] ie enforced social nature will correct our emotional state in a world where 'Hell is other people'. The dominant model for human emotional upset is the behaviour of other people - or the mechanic's mantra of 'it's gonna' cost ya' guv'.

SB_UK
09-03-15, 01:04 AM
sensory - evolution eg [c] ie enhanced sensory capacity - hsp

homeostasis - evolution eg ie not needing to eat will allow the body via short chain fatty acid production/gut biome to biosynthesize our ideal homeostatic miieu.

[B]emotional - evolution eg [a] ie enforced social nature will correct our emotional state in a world where 'hell is other people'. The dominant model for human emotional upset is the behaviour of other people - or the mechanic's mantra of 'it's gonna' cost ya' guv'.


sensory
ADHD [== sensitivity at empathic, systematizing and sensory levels] represents the pained sensory overload emergence of a metabolically efficient pro-social species in an anti-social environment.
It's all about (materialism to beauty) survival.
homeostasis
ADHD [== sensitivity at empathic, systematizing and sensory levels] represents the pained sensory overload emergence of a metabolically efficient pro-social species in an anti-social environment.
It's all about (materialism to beauty) survival.
emotional
ADHD [== sensitivity at empathic, systematizing and sensory levels] represents the pained sensory overload emergence of a metabolically efficient pro-social species in an anti-social environment.
It's all about (materialism to beauty) survival.

SB_UK
09-03-15, 01:37 AM
Homeostasis is a representation of time.

The boson is a representation of time.

It's a synchronization signal - social impulse - mechanism of holding a balanced duality in place - mechanism for generation of fixed abstraction layers (ie why once a level of evoluton has finished - we no longer need to worry about it - it's by definition 'fixed' in place by social impulse) -

An evolutionary form (redefines its nature) representative/conditional upon the level of evolution we're examining.

The emergent form post balance represents a species founded on increased time periodicity relating to 'survival'; 'survival' backtracks all the way back to the first Universal event - and represents a fundamentally creative drive towards extending a species relationship with time.

Systematically - we've extended species time periodicity from Planck time - our smallest unit of time ... ... uppawards.

The human EEG drops down (theta EEG adapted daydreaming ADDers).

Homeostasis (the balance point in phenomenological reality) which precedes duality is an evolutionary form of time.

We're evolving structures with ever increasing (^2) relationships (Integration - calculus) relationships with time.

The balanced duality of the 2 space dimensions (the Planck length standing wave matrix) represents the balanced duality of sensory and motor cortical loops.

Evolution represents a step-wise series involving integration of dx <- in frame standing wave / dt(ime) <- precursor orthogonal (out of frame) standing wave manifesting itself as pulsatility in reality.

Summarising

time periodicity -> duality formation [male - female archetype] -> At balance 'structure fixed'
integral (time periodicity) = new time periodicity
new time periodicity -> new duality formation [new male - new female archetype] -> At balance new 'structure fixed'
etc... ...

- no end is set in this progression.

male - female archetype
[+] male and subsequent [-] female -> do not cancel - complementarity.
Most notably
glutamate [+] - GABA [-]

female eversion of male.

mildadhd
09-03-15, 01:40 AM
The role of nucleus accumbens dopamine in motivated behavior: a unifying interpretation with special reference to reward-seeking

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.335.8964&rep=rep1&type=pdf



P

mildadhd
09-03-15, 01:47 AM
Primary affective level of sensitivity "sensory, homeostatic, emotional"

Perhaps affective life needs to be subcategorised into at least three major categories:

(1) exteroceptive sensory affects; (2) interoceptive homeo- static affects; and (3) within brain emotional affects (Panksepp & Pincus, 2004).


http://www.researchgate.net/publication/232850063_Criteria_for_basic_emotions_Is_DISGUST_a _primary_emotion



P

SB_UK
09-03-15, 02:36 AM
Schizophrenia

1 Serine racemase mutation -> schizoprenia (wikiP ref)
2 Absence in systematizing qualitites - loss self - schizophrenia
3 NMDAr (learning/memory) -> schizophrenia
4 NMDAr coactivators - glutamate and strange D-serine
5 L-serine converted to D-serine via serine racemase (wikiP ref)
6 serine racemase strongly inhibited by reduced anti-oxidant levels - glutathione GSSG instead of 2 x GSH
(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18564178)7 Ketosis strongly protective versus superoxide production - agents of glutathione reduction

-*-

(http://blog.primohealthcoach.com/bid/93702/The-Health-Benefits-Of-Glutathione)Glutathione is known as the "Master Antioxidant." Without antioxidants, nature's free radicals would cause endless damage to our bodies and living healthy ... (http://blog.primohealthcoach.com/bid/93702/The-Health-Benefits-Of-Glutathione)

SB_UK
09-03-15, 06:02 AM
back to these in a second

while not denying that suchdiverse functions may all be subsumed under the broad conceptual umbrella that all brain DA systems promote widespread sensory–motor arousal and competence within the brain.

"Seeking" occurs when an animal, given access to some stimulus such as food, executes some type of active behavior in order to acquire it. "Liking" occurs when an animal shows expressions of happiness or satisfaction while consuming something.

1. Dopamine seeking
2. CNS - built on sensorimotor cerebellar loop formation
3. DA promotes sensory–motor arousal towards sensory-motor cerebellar balance.4. Dopamine reward/aversion and seeking behaviours towards cerebellar learning/automatising5. A model which need be built - the model is motivated by DA.
SEEKING
6. Proper learning - Hyperfocus
PLAY

So - we've DA motivating cerebellar -> sensory/motor balance.

Also - DA circuitry has a characteristic frequency of firing.

But I lost the link - change in frequency down - something like 64 Hz to 8 Hz in man.

SB_UK
09-03-15, 06:27 AM
4. Dopamine reward/aversion and seeking behaviours towards cerebellar learning/automatising

High, moderate and low concentrations of extracellular dopamine induce euphoric, seeking and aversive states.http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166432815002600

DA is involved in reward associated with 'getting us some place'

-*-

-A-

social impulse - time - DA circuitry frequency

interneurone - cerebellum
sensory
motor


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21430648
Lithium has been used extensively for mood stabilization, and it is particularly efficacious in the treatment of bipolar mania. Like other drugs used in the treatment of psychiatric diseases, it has little effect on the mood of healthy individuals. Our previous studies found that mice with a mutation in the Clock gene (ClockΔ19) have a complete behavioral profile that is very similar to human mania, which can be reversed with chronic lithium treatment. However, the cellular and physiological effects that underlie its targeted therapeutic efficacy remain unknown. Here we find that ClockΔ19 mice have an increase in dopaminergic activity in the ventral tegmental area (VTA), and that lithium treatment selectively reduces the firing rate in the mutant mice with no effect on activity in wild-type mice. Furthermore, lithium treatment reduces nucleus accumbens (NAc) dopamine levels selectively in the mutant mice. The increased dopaminergic activity in the Clock mutants is associated with cell volume changes in dopamine neurons, which are also rescued by lithium treatment. To determine the role of dopaminergic activity and morphological changes in dopamine neurons in manic-like behavior, we manipulated the excitability of these neurons by overexpressing an inwardly rectifying potassium channel subunit (Kir2.1) selectively in the VTA of ClockΔ19 mice and wild-type mice using viral-mediated gene transfer. Introduction of this channel mimics the effects of lithium treatment on the firing rate of dopamine neurons in ClockΔ19 mice and leads to a similar change in dopamine cell volume. Furthermore, reduction of dopaminergic firing rates in ClockΔ19 animals results in a normalization of locomotor- and anxiety-related behavior that is very similar to lithium treatment; however, it is not sufficient to reverse depression-related behavior. These results suggest that abnormalities in dopamine cell firing and associated morphology underlie alterations in anxiety-related behavior in bipolar mania, and that the therapeutic effects of lithium come from a reversal of these abnormal phenotypes.

SB_UK
09-03-15, 06:49 AM
[a] Clock gene in Suprachiasmatic (SCN) nucleus
[b] Close relationship between SCN and pineal gland.
[c] Perfect reciprocity between melatonin and cortisol (http://en.licht.de/fileadmin/12_Special_Dynamisches_Licht/Grafiken_E/LW19_013_GRAFIK_Influence_of_daylight_on_the_human _body_Kopie.jpg).
[d] Natural cortisol variation with time of day obliterated under distress (http://www.lifeextension.com/~/media/lef/images/magazine/mag2012/images/jun2012_New-Reason-Avoid-Stress_05.ashx).
[e] Consequently effects on melatonin due to its partner cortisol being disrupted
[f] Excessive sleepiness
[g] Dopamine (stimulants) eg in narcolepsy associated with 'awakening' ie DA activation - necessary in ADHD because of excess distress (see general argument), cortisol insensitivity, cortisol resistance syndrome, adrenal insufficiency

SB_UK
09-03-15, 06:54 AM
ADHD represents sensitivity insensitively incensed.

SB_UK
09-03-15, 11:40 AM
Continuing ... ... Sleep
Involvement of astrocytes
Involvement of astrocytes in consolidating memory
Role of astrocyte in generating D-serine
D-serine effects on NMDA receptor

The trick is some sort of simultaneous connection between all cerebellar sensorimotor loops on the 3 Levels via astrocyte ? 1 co-ordinated control mechanism.

Isn't memory a way of describing the ability to access learning.

If we re-define learning as something we learn by sensorimotor cortical cerebellar loop formation - then -

memory works the same way when we read a bike vs use our mind ?

ie memory accesses learning.

So we wrap in DA centres (seeking learning), cerebellum, sensory + motor cortex (learning) and astrocyte (accessing learning) as the key structures.

br3akingchains
09-14-15, 08:53 AM
I've switched over to vyvanse 50 mg with 10 mg adderall immediate release for the rest of the day if I want it.

This new med didn't make me euphoric when I took it the first time and has been pretty consistent for the first few days. I feel more calm and in control, way more calm compared to adderall (definitely not a bad feeling).

The 40 mg of adderall slow release plus 10 mg immediate release for later in the day didn't do much, quantitatively. I can't pinpoint any major improvements in accomplishing projects (not fromlack of trying). I do remember not doing much at all just before starting meds (depression?...). Never really felt 'sad' or 'hopeless' until immediately before my first appointment, and even that was short lived.

Seems I have a bit more focus with vyvanse, and like I'm more in control of impulses and behavior. Makes me feel like I have a second to think before acting out or saying something socially inappropriate or that I might regret.

Pilgrim
09-14-15, 06:53 PM
I could have wrote that. Motivation always comes from within.

As per usual understanding SB's idea stretched my neural network.

daveddd
09-15-15, 12:05 AM
i do believe stimulants blunt the limbic system response to emotion

probably with a lessened response it allows better control of the emotions


Abnormal amygdalar activation and connectivity in adolescents with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder.

Posner J1, Nagel BJ, Maia TV, Mechling A, Oh M, Wang Z, Peterson BS.



Author information



Abstract

OBJECTIVE:

Emotional reactivity is one of the most disabling symptoms associated with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). We aimed to identify neural substrates associated with emotional reactivity and to assess the effects of stimulants on those substrates.

METHOD:

We used functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) to assess neural activity in adolescents with (n = 15) and without (n = 15) ADHD while they performed a task involving the subliminal presentation of fearful faces. Using dynamic causal modeling, we also examined the effective connectivity of two regions associated with emotional reactivity, i.e., the amygdala and the lateral prefrontal cortex (LPFC). The participants with ADHD underwent scanning both on and off stimulant medication in a counterbalanced fashion.

RESULTS:

During the task, we found that activity in the right amygdala was greater in adolescents with ADHD than in control subjects. In addition, in adolescents with ADHD, greater connectivity was detected between the amygdala and LPFC. Stimulants had a normalizing effect on both the activity in the right amygdala and the connectivity between the amygdala and LPFC.

CONCLUSIONS:

Our findings demonstrate that in adolescents with ADHD, a neural substrate of fear processing is atypical, as is the connectivity between the amygdala and LPFC. These findings suggest possible neural substrates for the emotional reactivity that is often present in youths with ADHD, and provide putative neural targets for the development of novel therapeutic interventions for this condition.

Copyright © 2011 American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. Published by Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.


PMID: 21784302 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] PMCID: PMC3155780 Free PMC

SB_UK
09-15-15, 12:25 AM
I could have wrote that. Motivation always comes from within.

As per usual understanding SB's idea stretched my neural network.

... ... while not denying that such diverse functions may all be subsumed under the broad conceptual umbrella that all brain DA systems promote widespread sensory–motor arousal and competence withinthe brain.

PART 1

1. When we learn we make a balanced -
sensory cortex - cerebellar - motor cortex connection
2. These are the most notable structures of the brain
3. If we wished - we could call these the tree's crown and the tree's root system ie the 2 key structures of the brain - you can see 1 (http://wcdn.brightstar-learning.com/wp-content/uploads/human-brain-cerebellum.png?2df56b) 2 (https://sporesmouldsandfungi.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/32-bolton-2014-05-05.jpg) (bottom left) the commonality,
4. We don't need to bother about what specific bits of the cortex does - simply that balance between the sensory and motor cortex is regulated by cerebellum - the cerebellum is important in cerebellar motor control,
5. When we develop a sensory - cerebellar - motor loop we have 'learnt' ie imagine you learn to ride a bike - you have changed ie you have learnt.
6. We need a motivation to learn (Peripheral - SEEK) and to improve (Peripheral - PLAY).
7. The motivation to learn must come from stimulated need ie imbalance in sensory - motor schemes ... ... we strive towards achieving balance ie handling information.
8. From the perspective of mind - this means 'grappling' with observational data and what I'd call tidying it up.
9. Observational data which doesn't match one's world view echoes imbalanced understanding.
10. Dopamine is driving us towards achieving balance in understanding and thereby ... ...
I could have wrote that. Motivation always comes from within.
provides motivation.
11. So motivation comes from within to make sense of 'without' - it's a central mechanism to balance environmental signals.

daveddd
09-15-15, 12:37 AM
i believe people with adhd do have a primarily top down regulation problem later in life

possibly due to the bottom up sensitivity stemming from the "negative infant temperament" barkleys mentions as a predisposition to ADHD

some may be able to manage strong bottom up emotions with top processes somehow

so technically ADHD as a diagnosis would be a top down issue



but getting into the "hot " and "cold" EF theories i think both aspects are important

SB_UK
09-15-15, 12:40 AM
i do believe stimulants blunt the limbic system response to emotion

probably with a lessened response it allows better control of the emotions


And so if we see the brain - very simply - as an instrument of 'learning' (widest possible definition) - then it is to be expected that it'd need a mechanism (dopamine) to stimulate learning ie to help us along the way.

'Feeling'/emotion can guide us down this path.

However - we can fool our brain/mind by supplying (stimulants) with the same essential chemical.

That's a bit like firing appetite suppressant neurones with a stomach that's cramping from not eating.

However - things complicate - since there're 2 aspects to the dopaminergic story - with dopamine simultaneously providing motivation and decreasing demotivation.

Distress -> leads to profound effects on neural development (See Peripheral's ex-avatar)

Decreasing demotivation (distress) - will lead to a learning-benign (reduced emotional reactivity) environment - which also decreases the drive to learn (ie apathy/listlessness in depression)
- but also we're playing with ie eliminating the central drive (SEEKING/PLAY) to learn - as acquiring this chemical through learning is our motivation.

So - the meds will stop us from feeling as though we're going mad under the distress of living in a violently immoral, illogical, irrational world ... ... but need not be used to assist proper learning (making sence of the world, making oneself better) - in which case the individual does not benefit.
Personally - I found that stimulants simply eliminated distress and allowed me to attend to ANYTHING; was interest taken into account ? No.

So - of importance - to construct a moral social environment, removing the need for stimulants to generate a benign internal central learning environment, to construct a moral social environment which supports individuals learning to become better, which will take the guesswork out of the choice one makes (to learn or not) whilst on stimulants ... ... ...

SB_UK
09-15-15, 12:50 AM
i believe people with adhd do have a primarily top down regulation problem later in life

possibly due to the bottom up sensitivity stemming from the "negative infant temperament" barkleys mentions as a predisposition to ADHD

some may be able to manage strong bottom up emotions with top processes somehow

so technically ADHD as a diagnosis would be a top down issue



but getting into the "hot " and "cold" EF theories i think both aspects are important


Bottom-up emotional sensitivity (see HSP theory) -> <- Top down cognitive (pain !) dissonance (immoral logic to life).

both aspects are important

Bottom-up emotional sensitivity (see HSP theory) scientific basis to ADHD-> <- Top down cognitive (pain !) dissonance (immoral logic to life) medical basis to ADHD.

SB_UK
09-15-15, 01:09 AM
I could have wrote that. Motivation always comes from within.

As per usual understanding SB's idea stretched my neural network.

And Part 2

The connection to clock, sleep, memory and astrocyte.

1. It's pretty well accepted that sleep consolidates memories (learning) - and so we can see the connection from Part 1 to sleep - in that neural re-arrangement need occur in the process of 'changing' towards becoming intrinsically better.

2. Key part here - is to see 'learning' in as wide a definition as possible ie becoming better at any neurally mediated control mechanism which we're not 'genomically' gifted.

3. Memory - must relate to the ability to access learning ie widest possible definition of environment leading to widest possible definition of learning to widest possible definition of intrinsic change (sleep consolidation) to widest possible definition of reconstituion/re-use (memory) ie

- in summary - the process of 'doing something that you'e just learnt to do' - a process motivated by dopamine subject to environmental (the learning environment.) stimulus.

Which just leaves the astrocyte.

I think that clock/astrocyte provides central synchronization - since we often perform multiple 'learnt' (widest possible defintiions) behaviours actually simultaneously.

SB_UK
09-15-15, 01:16 AM
Bringing it all together

This represents a choice.
We must take the acquisition of personal quality ... ... as the other way leads us into OVERT addiction.
This choice is identical in nature to the famous phrase -
"No man can serve two masters: for either he: will hate the one, and love the other"

Noting that
-- the evolutonary (divine) imperative (mechanism defined) is towards increasing quality (Universal informational complexity)
-- and therefore 'his will be done' represents alignment of man towards assisting (acquisition of personal/collective) quality

- which requires that we align ourselves with the higher and not the primitive reward system.

Life as a personal/collective investigation into 'always' better.

It's of note that since the 80's and society embracing money that epidemiological data shows a decrease in health with each subsequent generation.
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28191865)
what's te biological significance of the crown of tree do ? Is the cortex a deep brain structure ?

Low quality. 'Poor show wot wot'.

SB_UK
09-15-15, 02:10 AM
I think that clock/astrocyte provides central synchronization - since we often perform multiple 'learnt' (widest possible defintiions) behaviours actually simultaneously.Every computer contains an internal clock that regulates the rate at which instructions are executed (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/C/clock_speed.html).cf tech as reflection of evolution and brain as a hierarchical parallel processor cf OSI/ISO except each upper layer must be served by lower layers, but lower layers need not be commanded by upper layers ie autonomic nervous system operates without volitional/cognitive choice but cognitive awareness can alter autonomic nervous system activity.Naughty Nature.Astrocyte Ca2+ signalling has been proposed to link neuronal information in different spatial–temporal dimensions to achieve a higher level of brain integration.
http://www.nature.com/nrn/journal/v15/n5/abs/nrn3725.html

SB_UK
09-15-15, 05:35 AM
It's of note that since the 80's and society embracing money that epidemiological data shows a decrease in health with each subsequent generation. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28191865)

and today

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11865074/Britains-poor-diet-more-deadly-than-its-smoking-habit-as-alcohol-related-deaths-soar.html

noting - all Western disorders (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseases_of_affluence) are preventable

Abi
09-15-15, 05:36 AM
Morning S.