View Full Version : unconditioned PLAY response system and conditioned play

09-05-15, 10:57 AM

(1:06) It's like professional wrestling

Why do people enjoy professional wrestling?

It's all theatre.

We know that but we still enjoy it.." (-Prof Panksepp)

unconditioned PLAY (instinctual), verses, conditioned play (learned)

This thread is meant to explore the difference between unconditioned PLAY response system and conditioned play.

What is the difference between "free play" and "organized play"?

What is the social purpose of unconditioned PLAY response system and conditioned play?

What is the "light" side of social play?

What is the "dark" side of social play?



09-06-15, 01:33 AM
unconditioned play - SEEKING
conditioned play - PLAY

anticipation of reward - dopamine - SEEKING - learning - cerebellar cortical loop formation

reward - dopamine - PLAY - improving - cerebellar cortical loop formation

So - all related to personal quality acquisition

what we experience when we become of intrinsically higher quality.

Questions ?
1. Can we learn/improve in quality in behaviours which're socially (driving well, shooting people accurately) useless
- YES - which is why we need a mind to guide us.
The nerve simply turns itself to learning/improving us in whichever aspect of life we turn its 'hand' to.

2. Are all behaviours which we associate with related to learning/improvement in the neural system ?
Would running ever faster count ? Presumably running towards perfect form ?
Articulation - Cerebellar.
But are there areas where we can turn our brain/mind without limitation ?
Does anybody else improve as we learn to run faster/more smoothly ?

Does cerebellar learning of quality in the individual automatically construct a level of 'species' diversity which indivduals can thereafter climb upon ?
On the shoulders of giants

09-06-15, 01:34 AM

2 models
Anatomically distinct dopamine release during anticipation and experience of peak emotion to music


09-06-15, 01:41 AM
So - we can rip apart neurology and psychology.

peripheral and central.

Endocrinology sits at the switch from an

Exteroceptive to Interoceptive model of reality.

A shift to an 'internal' model of reality.

Expansion of the nuclear hormone receptor in the evolution of worm (nervous system).

Nuclear receptors (NRs) are transcription factors typically regulated by lipophilic hormones, which coordinate metazoan metabolism, development and homeostasis. C. elegans has undergone a remarkable expansion of the family, harboring 284 of these receptors in its genome.

And -

It is one of the simplest organisms with a nervous system (

09-06-15, 01:46 AM
Carb to Fat transition in Physical to Neural developmental paradigms.

Physical self-assembly (in utero development) to Neural self-assembly (cerebellar-cortical loop formation).

Insulin/IGF-1 growth paradigm to Leptin paradigm (aerobic respiration,maintenance phenotype)


The acquisition of personal quality sitting atop a facilitating metabolic environment for achieving neural re-arrangement towards quality in whichever avenue one learns/practices.

Which is why the Age of Stupid 80's to current - has been characterized by the rise in Insulin/IGF-1 releasing food stuffs - fast food.

No quality.

Because our machinery of quality could not assemble.

09-06-15, 01:53 AM
unsustainable living <- EMPIRE <- competition <- quantity of harm <- Carbs <-choice-> Fat -> quality of life -> collaboration -> MONASTERY -> sustainable living

That works.

09-06-15, 02:07 AM
Neuro- and Endocrine agents.


The biogenic amines.

Endocrine -> Neuro
External -> Internal


levoamphetamine -> dextroamphetamine (dexedrine)

peripheral -> central

adderall = levoamphetamine + dextroamphetamine

adderall - slower release

endocrine (levoamphetamine) - slow
neural (dextroamphetamine) - fast

Dexedrine - time-frame - 4 hours ie timed to current world meal intervals ie blood glucose dip postprandially - hyperglycaemia -> hypoglycaemia - dextroamphetamine.

Levoamphetamine - longer time-frame - peripheral dopamine - ketosis - no postprandial dip in blood glucose levels - appetite not stimulated -
The reason why:

What's going on ?

Peripheral Dopamine
Ketoadaptation - using ketones as fuel

- are having the exact same effects.

09-06-15, 02:15 AM
What is the difference between "free play" and "organized play"?
What is the social purpose of unconditioned PLAY response system and conditioned play?
What is the "light" side of social play?
What is the "dark" side of social play?

LEARNING -> IMPROVING in quality <- the neural model
To increase the diversity of quality represented in the species (see MeADD823 - DIVERSITY)
Collaboration <- towards increasing quality
Competition (against other people to beat them, and not to beome personally better)

09-06-15, 02:44 AM

sugar and spice trade - the precious commodities featured in recent world history

quantity of harm <- carbs <- sugar <-choice-> spice (fat soluble) ( -> fat -> quality of life

Sugarbabes vs Spice girls WWF challenge.

Age vs Experience :-)

This is getting silly now.
the Spice Girls ( are the only British girl group to have had more.
(I've never heard of these Sugababe people before)
The way I look at it, eating animal fats or unadulterated fats such as butter, cream and cheese are actually good for you. I do avoid foods that are high in sugar.What ingredients do you have in your runner's storecupboard?
Spices ( - pepper, chilli, cumin, caraway seeds – you can put them in a pepper mill and grind them. Dried foods like seaweed, kelp, mushroom and tomato - they really enhance the flavour of dishes.quantity of harm <- <-choice-> -> quality of life

09-06-15, 03:06 AM
Dutch West India Company (1619) -> sugar vs spice <- Dutch East India Company (1602)
The Dutch Golden Age (Dutch ( Gouden Eeuw [ˈɣʌu̯də(n) ˈeːu̯] ( was a period in Dutch history (, roughly spanning the 17th century, in which Dutch trade (, science (, military (, and art ( were among the most acclaimed in the world. The first half is characterized by the Eighty Years' War ( which ended in 1648. The Golden Age continued in peacetime during the Dutch Republic ( until the end of the century.
The Netherlands's transition from a possession of the Holy Roman Empire in the 1590s to the foremost maritime and economic power in the world has been called the "Dutch Miracle" by historian K. W. Swart ([1] (
quantity (externally ie money) vs quality (internally ie personally)

Can either have one or the other.

Make the wrong choice and you will be instrumental in killing everything - from yourself to all others regardless of species.

09-07-15, 10:04 PM

Interesting points.

Thanks, i need to spend sometime to review a bunch of material, looking forward to discussing thread topics and learning more in the near future.


09-07-15, 11:40 PM
The story of the Dutch Golden Age after departure from the Holy Roman Empire is a bit like a kid leaving for University for the first time and going wild.

She challenges future 'lest we forget'with a profound lack of history.

No (artificial) constraints placed on behaviour.

Enforced moral consistency isn't attained - if at all, until later on in life.
Up until then - and especially in an adverse {antisocial,capitalist,addiction-forming,materialistic,pointless} society - a 'custodial sentence' must be applied.

In a beneficient society - the 'custodial sentence' (constantly overseen) can be relaxed for :-) time in the community.

Since the path of social reward (towards wisdom) is walked ... ... ...

... ... ... as opposed to the path of addiction - 'it's like drinking gasoline to quench a thirst, until there's nothing there [of you] left at all'