View Full Version : What is it to be human (genome) ?


SB_UK
09-18-15, 02:24 AM
--1--

The emerging world of the fungal microbiome (http://www.researchgate.net/publication/236919485_The_emerging_world_of_the_fungal_microbi ome)

SB_UK
09-18-15, 02:29 AM
--2---

research at the albert einstein college of medicine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/albert_einstein_college_of_medicine) showed that three melanin-containing fungi, cladosporium sphaerospermum (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=cladosporium_sphaerospermum&action=edit&redlink=1), wangiella dermatitidis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/wangiella_dermatitidis), and cryptococcus neoformans. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/cryptococcus_neoformans)

SB_UK
09-18-15, 02:30 AM
--1-- + ---2--- = --3--
cryptococcus neoformans can exist at low levels for decades in the lungs

SB_UK
09-18-15, 02:36 AM
Exorcising the notion that {whether} external, internal, physical ... meta-Universal ... reality is 'fixed'.

http://youtubeonrepeat.com/watch/?v=q7U1fvpuWWU&to=356&playlist=true

Everything changes.

SB_UK
09-18-15, 02:37 AM
Genome -> Biome / Connectome

Biome / Connectome -> collaborative ecosystems of nerves and cross-species micro-organisms

And what characterizes human beings ?
Stupid, stupid human beings with their desire to compete against one another.

peripatetic
09-18-15, 03:52 AM
G
And what characterizes human beings ?
Stupid, stupid human beings with their desire to compete against one another.


hmm. i think that's incomplete :)

ONLY because you said "desire", and i'm unsure other species, flora and fauna, "desire" competition so much as engage in it as needed for survival (competition for food, shelter, mates, etc)...i'll concede that many humans are characterised by a desire to compete...or a delight in competing (though, prolly only those who are "winning" really enjoy having to "compete" because struggling to survive and losing that battle daily isn't something i think many impoverished people desire to engage in.

BUT...i think it's interesting this idea of connectedness enduring and not only being compatible with, but necessarily dependent on organisms also being ever changing. i think that's spot on insofar as both "reasonable" and "matching with experience" when contemplated.

here's the thing though: the claim that human beings are characterised by foolish desire to compete with one another does not fit with those ideas. what i mean is that the claim itself fails to recognise the ever changing yet connected element of all life, including humans. true, some people do manifest that characteristic...that focus in life...in spades. however, to some degree aren't they as necessary for there to be true diversity and complexity as anyone else?

i would certainly agree that maybe having SO MANY with that focus...or so much resources devoted to them...that's a problem. but even they must be changing on some level and connected as well, so the characterisation is grim, but the idea you start with is one of evolving wholeness.

perhaps i've been smacked by an optimism stick from skimming the article and thinking about your posts, but i was led to such a very different conclusion...one of possibility rather than stagnation.

hmm...that didn't really congeal into a question. well, sort of a question. i agree with you on many things, but my "take away" from the link and your first few posts was quite different from the part of your last post that i quoted above.

interested in hearing your further thoughts, as always. x

SB_UK
09-18-15, 07:55 AM
hmm. i think that's incomplete :)

ONLY because you said "desire", and i'm unsure other species, flora and fauna, "desire" competition so much as engage in it as needed for survival (competition for food, shelter, mates, etc)...i'll concede that many humans are characterised by a desire to compete...or a delight in competing (though, prolly only those who are "winning" really enjoy having to "compete" because struggling to survive and losing that battle daily isn't something i think many impoverished people desire to engage in.

BUT...i think it's interesting this idea of connectedness enduring and not only being compatible with, but necessarily dependent on organisms also being ever changing. i think that's spot on insofar as both "reasonable" and "matching with experience" when contemplated.

here's the thing though: the claim that human beings are characterised by foolish desire to compete with one another does not fit with those ideas. what i mean is that the claim itself fails to recognise the ever changing yet connected element of all life, including humans. true, some people do manifest that characteristic...that focus in life...in spades. however, to some degree aren't they as necessary for there to be true diversity and complexity as anyone else?

i would certainly agree that maybe having SO MANY with that focus...or so much resources devoted to them...that's a problem. but even they must be changing on some level and connected as well, so the characterisation is grim, but the idea you start with is one of evolving wholeness.

perhaps i've been smacked by an optimism stick from skimming the article and thinking about your posts, but i was led to such a very different conclusion...one of possibility rather than stagnation.

hmm...that didn't really congeal into a question. well, sort of a question. i agree with you on many things, but my "take away" from the link and your first few posts was quite different from the part of your last post that i quoted above.

interested in hearing your further thoughts, as always. x

:-)

Chemotactic gradients guiding developmental migration events.

That is important.

(bit of a large jump from yours - apologies - next post - not even too sure how we arrived there !!)

This is going to hurt :p (good pain !!)

SB_UK
09-18-15, 08:41 AM
long route round

developmental - virus

brain (virus)
skin (fungus)
gut (bacteria)

light -> fungus [surface fungal ecosystem] -> SCFA
SCFA -> bacteria (gut) -> biosynthesis (all essential biochemicals)
SCFA/biochemicals -> viral (neural) functioning
information + SCFA/biochemicals -> viral (neural) re-arrangement -> cortical micro-circuit formation

inter-relationship in evolution between 3 microbial taxonomic groups
- collaboration towards making life ever better for one another.

- collaboration towards making life ever better for one another.


[just trying to connect hyaluronan with respiration]

post-edit - water

SB_UK
09-18-15, 10:19 AM
http://youtubeonrepeat.com/watch/?v=mScqbuR8WHY


'black flowers blossom'

- can mean only one thing

(sorry - a very long way round)

stimulant - respiratory rate - elevated pO2
vs
narcotic - respiratory rate - elevated pCO2

evolutionary rubric - survival fitness through discarding dependencies

SB_UK
09-18-15, 10:44 AM
Competition should represent optimisation of a collaborative structure; that's the motif.

Competing individual components competing in such a way as not to geneate a hierarchically higher set to the individuals aren't operating to the fundamental substrate's pattern of evolution/creation towards stably increasing exponential increase in Universal informational content ie increasing informational entropy

ie structure - mathematical complexity not disorganization - the usual characterization of chemical entropy eg loss of structure.

SB_UK
09-18-15, 11:05 AM
Genome -> Biome / Connectome

Biome / Connectome -> collaborative ecosystems of nerves and cross-species micro-organisms

And what characterizes human beings ?
Stupid, stupid human beings with their desire to compete against one another.


So - the problem with the genome is that it's out of evolutionary capacity.
The close similarity between all of our genomes.
The epigenome is useful only in trimming the genome back towards being a tight receptacle for aerobic respiration.

No defined end-point to evolution in connectome.
No defined end-point to evolution in viral/bacterial/fungal connectome.

Utilize impressive flexibility in neural network rearrrangement and microbial mutation and ecosystem formation.

An evolutionary model of man whereby

connectome - informational recognition - evolution drives increasing informational sensitivity

biome - fungal/bacterial - driving energy transduction and essential metabolite biosynthesis

genome [aerobic milieu] - supporting connectome <-> biome cross-talk such that the aerobic reaction (genome) is furthered.

So - you're fixing oxygen ?
Just a second

fungal biome (ie radiation panels) viral biome (ie informational panels)
fungal biome (ie radiation panels)
fungal biome (ie radiation panels) viral biome (ie informational panels) bacterial biome (ie chemical panels)

CNS - virus
SKIN - fungus (https://propelsteps.wordpress.com/2014/10/12/know-top-10-largest-organs-of-the-human-body/)
GUT - bacteria

Other than plant - the virus, fungus and bacteria are the major evolutionary structures - animals (particularly human beings) simply have nerve (http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/lot+of+nerve) definition 1 - particularly of self-importance.


The 3 Key organs.

SB_UK
09-19-15, 03:47 AM
So - yes - there's a role for 'competition' but it must build - an ever more satisfying reality - certainly not destroy it.

The issue structures fall into is to follow the previous 'social impulse' ie to pursue a reward system which is in place to form a structure which is already complete and not to pursue structure formation on the level (hierarchically) above.

So - this gives us the primitive and higher reward systems in man.

And people - given the incorrect social environment are supported in taking the wrong choice of pursuing materialism instead of making themselves intrinsically better within a social environment of all people attempting to make themselves, whilst supporting others in making themselves intrinsically better.

And this all comes to priorities set by MONEY.
MONEY/desire for MONEY (primitive reward system = love/desire of money) seeds choices inadvertently made - pledging allegiance in a direction which leads the individual straight to a miserable, addictive, ever growing hunger {Hell}.

You'll never acquire enough money.
You'll never have had your fill of heroin.

SB_UK
09-19-15, 04:12 AM
Do we fix oxygen ?
Water seems to be of particular importance.
But oxygen (taming its incredible reactivity) appears to do us no good.

OIL RIG
Oxidatin is loss of electrons
Reduction is gain

It'd be nice if we could generate water without dealing in gaseous oxygen.

We have energetic content in radiation.
We have energetic content in oxygen.

Why'd we need both ie contribution of energy from both ?
One (generation of oxygen free radicals) is hard to tame.

Oxygen free radicals appear to be the agent of human ageing.

Evolution leads to autonomy since this entails enhanced happy survical fitness - it's not survival if the organism is not happy.

Can we withdraw oxygen and water from human needs ?

How did radiotrophic fungae grow in space ?

Need a couple of details - whether there was water or oxyen available ?

Guess - water not oxygen.

How do you generate water without oxygen ?

Our bacterial biome contains anaerobic bacteria.

Anaerobic bacteria can (grow) generate energy from SCFA fermentation (wikiP/anaerobic organism).

We can propbably eliminate energy need - but what about inorganic ions ?

radiation/water/inorganic cofactors
radia|
radiav

bacteria <-> fungus
bacteria <^
bacteria <|
bacteriiivirus

bacteriiiie
bacteanimal <------------------------------> plant

bacteanimal <------------------------------> ra^
bacteanimal <------------------------------>dia|
bacteanimal <----------------------------radiation/water/inorganic cofactors and atmospheric gases

Animals/Plants - utilizing different parts of the EM spectrum.
Plants - low energy visible spectrum
Animals - high energy (gamma ray) radiation

Water - complete sterility in planets (deserts) without water

Inorganic ions - cannot be biosynthesized

What about air ?
The key part is the influence of oxygen handling by life - destroying life - that's the bit that needs to be tamed/eliminated.

Can we leave planet Earth ?
If the human mind is information encoded on the Schumann resonance (EEG freqs) and if inorganic ions are required - then no.

The Earth 'peopled'

SB_UK
09-19-15, 04:27 AM
So - retention of some need to eat.

We transfer over to a 'quality'-based as opposed to a 'quantity'-based model of existence.

Why do human beings appear to describe the desire to want to leave the planet ?

Why do all children dislike tidying up after they've made a mess ?

-*-

2 models for human evolution - both best realised through planetary existence.

Biome/Connectome.

Clsoe relationship between planetary existence and acquisition of environmental bugs within our biomic ecosystem.
Close relationship between planetary existence and immersion in a sensual world ie as a substrate for connectomic evolution.

-*-

So - who wants to leave the planet ?
cf Elysium
It's just a way of not having to behave responsibly.

Oh well - we'll be able to leave soon - best not worry about living a clean, sustainable existence.

-*-

We're not going anywhere.

You're not going anywhere until you've tidied 'to cultivate one's garden' up your toys.

SB_UK
09-19-15, 05:16 AM
I don't want to eliminate oxygen.

We just need to temper its usage.

By shifting from wild fluctuations in its usage (carbohydrate metabolism) to steady usage (ketone metabolism) - whereby handling of superoxide radicals is controlled.

Returning - to distress <- eustress -> distress.

There needs to be a controlled release of reactive oxygen species for mitochondrial biogenesis/hormesis
eg
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4036400/
ie we need a model in which there's 'no gain if no pain (effort)' but in which pain (maladaptive) is prevented.

Carb -> Fat metabolism.

So - we could say that the idea of balance represents itself through differentiation between adaptive and maladaptive consequences via a form of

cheeky !dose response

Dose Response. 2014 May; 12(2): 288–341.
Mitohormesis: Promoting Health and Lifespan by Increased Levels of Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4036400/

SB_UK
09-19-15, 05:21 AM
So

biome - organic chemical biosynthesis and environmental physical energy transduction
connectome - informational handlign capacity

Both have room to evolve.

genome/epigenome - principally govern aerobic capacity - the generation of a template structure for connectomic and biomic evolution.
To pursue the genomic/epigenomic program is to pursue aerobic respiration through mainitaining the ideal physiological state for allowing this reaction to proceed.

See - all experimentally recruited information - on longevity eg fasting to aerobic exercise and all experimentally recruited info on mitohormesis (very similar list to the list generated via longevity research) unsurprisingly.

-*-

Genome/epigenome - the mechanism of toti and pluri potency - whereby development can occur.
But when development (growth/anabolism) has occurred - the emphasis shifts away.

SB_UK
09-19-15, 05:28 AM
So what is it to be human ?To become personally and personally satisfyingly better.
To help others to become personally and personally satisfyingly better.

To enjoy the world that then ensues.

And it *will* be enjoyable.

Human beings can work fast - if human beings set their hyperfocus in motion.

mildadhd
09-20-15, 10:34 PM
Interesting discussion!

Makes me think about the purpose of instinctual social PLAY system.


..The PLAY system allows children to learn about social rules of conduct--for example, when to cooperate and when to compete, and at times to retreat in good-humored ways and let someone else win.

When animals engage in rough-and-tumble play and one animal wins more than 70% of the time, the loosing animal no longer enjoys the game and may drop out of such interactions entirely.

So when children play, they learn valuable social skills, such as the necessity of reciprocity and giving way on occasion.

Children will learn these skills because, if they do not, their playmates may begin to reject them..



-Panksepp/Biven; "The Archaeology Of Mind", (Preface and Acknowledgements), P xviii-xix.



i!i

SB_UK
09-21-15, 01:22 AM
Interesting discussion!

Makes me think about the purpose of instinctual social PLAY system.

-Panksepp/Biven; "The Archaeology Of Mind", (Preface and Acknowledgements), P xviii-xix.

i!i

Winning.
2 definitions.

(a) Beating another person - this model of winning is not useful
(b) Helping other people - this model of winning is useful

So - 2 definitions of winning - one at the level of individual and the other at the level of species

- winning at the level of individual at another's expense is an EPIC FAIL to the WIN WIN of making social gains.

What defines whether one has won at the species level ?
Has life become better for the species ?

At the level of mind - what counts most is the scientific model of understandign - expressed as simply as possible so all people can adopt it as their model of understanding - as the foundation for living a life in pursuit of the neural program of LEARNING to become personally better.

per ludus ad astra

SB_UK
09-21-15, 01:35 AM
Absolutely fascinating that we should have created a form of society in which the one thing we want (to become of personally higher quality) has been wholly usurped by the pursuit of materialism courting the progression towards personal low quality.

or why schools destroy creativity (http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity?language =en) ?

Docility isn't a useful characteristic.

Intrinsically fulfilling is the aim - not subscribing to externally foisted models for what should reward.
To be rich, powerful and famous.
What a lot of nonsense.

The construction of an entire society (we have currently) (and not just school) which teaches the wrong message.

SB_UK
09-21-15, 01:46 AM
..The PLAY system allows children to learn about social rules of conduct--for example, when to cooperate and when to compete, and at times to retreat in good-humored ways and let someone else win.

When animals engage in rough-and-tumble play and one animal wins more than 70% of the time, the loosing animal no longer enjoys the game and may drop out of such interactions entirely.

So when children play, they learn valuable social skills, such as the necessity of reciprocity and giving way on occasion.

Children will learn these skills because, if they do not, their playmates may begin to reject them.. Yes - noticing this in children.

Note - people can become arrested in one of these stages - so there're adults who do not get beyond stage 1.

INITIAL STAGE - TO WANT TO WIN <- genomic program ie quantitiy (anabolism/development) program


Early age - children must win even if it's clear that we've reverse-cheated to allow them to win
Older - growing capacity to lose
Older - tendency not to want to enage in behaviours where they lose
Older - to not mind losing
Older - to enjoy getting better
Wisdom - to enjoy being beaten - because this affords most potential for personal betterment

FINAL STAGE - TO WANT TO LOSE IN AREAS THAT ONE WOULD IMPROVE IN <- connectomic program (quality) program.
Losing - an opportunity to become better.
A new and exciting experience represents losing ie some model of experience which beats/extends one's current models of experience.
To extend oneself.

-*-

So - are human beings fundamentally 'bad' ?
No - there's a lifecycle towards aerobic, rational, social existence which need complete within a supportive physico-psycho-social environment,

aerobic -> BODY
rational -> MIND
social -> SPIRIT (cf social impulse of boson where evolution seals abstraction layers with an evolution of time - a synchronization signal)

The reward system pathways which can be sequestered in addiction are necessary to compel the individual towards completion of the human life-cycle.
We can tell what these 'expected' programmed behaviours are - as they're associated with the endogenous stimulant/narcotic pathways eg attachment ... ... programmed behaviours which require compulsion (ie why does a baby drink milk ? cf caseomorphin)

- so a lifecycle (imprisonment, not yet having freewill) which we escape - to escape the life sentence
- when we attain wisdom.

And gan free will - reward only from aerobic rational social behaviours - most notably holistic allegiance to learning (quality) as the key marker of our current stage of evolution.

Problems with reality:
We have the capacity with increasing information relay techniques particularly VR/holography to massive extend quality of environmental information relay which'll mean that we'll be able to entrain our own central auditory, visual, balance ... all systems ... ... pattern recognition machinery towards acquiring greater personal intrinsic quality.

Not to characterize anything as good or bad.
It's how one uses some novel technology which characterizes whether we're taken in the wrong (online gambling as a model of addiction as opposed to some opportunity to test statistical models) or correct (the wikiP/encyclopédistes to share rather than display personal knowledge) direction.

Two sides to the behaviours above- key note - motivation is key.

Selfish vs Social.

mildadhd
09-21-15, 08:59 PM
.. i'm unsure other species, flora and fauna, "desire" competition so much as engage in it as needed for survival (competition for food, shelter, mates, etc)..

Plant photosynthesis + Plant respiration = Plant adaption?

Human photosynthesis + Human respiration = Human adaption?



P?

mildadhd
09-21-15, 09:34 PM
Social Mammals grew out of Selfish Reptiles. (Paraphrasing SB_UK)




P

mildadhd
09-21-15, 09:46 PM
Social Mammals grew out of Selfish Reptiles. (Paraphrasing SB_UK)




P

Social Humans grew out of Social Mammals (Paraphrasing SB_UK)



P

SB_UK
09-22-15, 02:05 AM
Plant photosynthesis + Plant respiration = Plant adaption?

Human photosynthesis + Human respiration = Human adaption?



P?


http://www.wikihow.com/Take-Care-of-Bamboo-Plants-in-Water
The bamboo needs ONLY water, EM spectrum, and occasional nutrients to thrive.That's elegant.
Science (evolutionary structures) is/are elegant.



radiation/water/inorganic cofactors
radiadiadi|
radiadiadav
bacteria <-> fungus
bacteria <^
bacteria <|
bacteriiivirus
abacteriiiie
badiaacteanimal <------------------------------> plant

bacteanimal <---------------adi^
bacteanimal <----------------a.|
baradiation/water/inorganic cofactors and atmospheric gases


radiation/water/inorganic cofactors
radiadiadi|
radiadiadav
badiaacteanimal <------------------------------> plant

bacteanimal <---------------adi^
bacteanimal <----------------a.|
baradiation/water/inorganic cofactors and atmospheric gases


radiadirawater, EM spectrum, occasional nutrients
radiadiadiiadiadiadi|
radiadiadiadiadaiadiv
badiaaciadiadiateanimal <--------> plant
bacteanimal <-------------iadiadia--i^
bacteanimal <---------------.iadiadia|
...............baiadiadiadwater, EM spectrum, occasional nutrients

Do radiotropic fungae need air ?

- which just {leaves} an Indica and Sativa hemp leaf as items of clothing.

Back to the garden.We are thereby (evolutionarily/creationistically) gifted with (particularly though without a mind characterized by wanderlust) all we need.

All important aspects of man from physical balance, learning, understanding, microbial ecosystem health, development of quality sensing machinery [<- connectome + microbiome] ... ... ... are internal; you don't need to go anywhere to become better - you absolutely don't need to beat (particularly with a stick) anybody to become better.

* note 1 - occasional nutrients - sprouts -> microgreens (simple to manufacture)
* note 2 - importance of air ? Don't really want to eliminate air (only optimise, regulate oxygen uptake towards mitochondrial fission not fusion)[<- mitochondrial/peroxisomal/human genome/human epigenome interplay].

SB_UK
09-22-15, 02:29 AM
Pictorially represent evolution (abstraction layers)

Thanks to M.C. Escher and Roger Penrose.

A repeating pattern generating superstructures (transcendental form) from the same basic (ther's just 1 underlying) structure.

Image 1 - Evolution (Escher)
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTo85rA8f5uwi4K6W4_LQ1v85SJjZvx_ 9ug2WgdKdagSAi9hO9n)
Image 2 - Representation of repeating structure (Escher) in Image 1 above (http://robertgerardhunt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/ArtForHoiPolloiMCEscher.jpg)

ie from image 2 above ()() = |>() the repeating structure in image 1 above
Note
|> convex -> male archetype () concave -> female archetype

Maths can be revealed through intuition (creative artistry).

SB_UK
09-22-15, 02:39 AM
The mathematical axiom is simply the Boy's surface - to be understood as 2 orthogonal standing waves - where the precursor standign wave (time) is out of frame to the other (2 spatial dimensions).

The 2 spatial dimensions - male and female archetype are eversions of one another.

Making net zero.

Increasing informational complexity under a net (Universal) zero model - where the key point would be that male and female archetype - despite superficially 'destructive' are creatively, synergistically arrayed.

SB_UK
09-22-15, 07:07 AM
Increasing informational complexity under a net (Universal) zero model -

So the total energy of the universe is zero.

http://www.livescience.com/33129-total-energy-universe-zero.html

SB_UK
09-22-15, 08:45 AM
Penrose and Hawking.
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/22/oxbridge-comprehensive-university-selection-criteria
- redefining 'comprehensive' [A] education, education comprehensively [ B ] comprehensively [C] comprehensively [D].

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/comprehensive
[A] definition 2
[ B ] defintiion 1 - 1.1
[C] definition 3
[D] definition - globally internally consistent

[ B ,D ] - both globally (externally) logically and locally (internally) logically consistent.

Globally complete can lack detail eg 'God did it all isn't really wrong but doesn't mean anything'
Partially logically consistent may be wrong ie not consistent with the whole eg all models involving cure and not prevention of problems relating to incompleteness of worldview.
(See David Bohm)

[B] We need a comprehensive [C], comprehensive [ B ], comprehensive [D], comprehensive [A] (<- free) education offering comprehensive (definition 1.2) victory over ignorance.

SB_UK
09-22-15, 11:12 PM
Social Mammals grew out of Selfish Reptiles.
Social Humans grew out of Social MammalsReptile = integral of cell - Body as structure
Social mammal = integral of individuals within the species - Species as structure
Social human = integral of all species as structure ie we are all connected model of understanding conferred by the uniquely human characteristic of mind (when complete)
No point in hurting anyone, anything, destroying anyone, anything, competing against anyone, anything

- because to perform any destructive act against any construct is to perform a destructive act against oneself.

The basis to evolution/creation is increasing informational complexity.

We're propelled (the evolutionary/creationary thrust itself expressed in our motivation as expressions of it) to make things better.

Where next ?
:-)
Creative human - The integral of this fundamentally inter-connected Universe (fundamentally interconnected constructs of phenomenological reality, structured knowable Universal reality) ~ie~ is meta-Universal reality is Imagination.

Imagine the possibilities - imagination extends reality.

Abi
09-29-15, 12:25 AM
This thread is now closed.

If anyone wishes to further discuss the topic of this thread within the constraints provided by the rules of the Scientific Discussion (Hard Science) section, please petition me or another section mod via PM.

Thank you.