View Full Version : Interesting article for parents searching for answers


shane_udhf
09-24-15, 09:02 AM
Balancing Biochemistry: An Interview with Stephanie Cave (http://www.printfriendly.com/print/?source=homepage&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mothering.com%2Farticles%2Fba lancing-biochemistry-an-interview-with-stephanie-cave%2F)

I recommend this article to parents who are looking to try and find alternative means of treatment for adhd. This form of treatment has dramatically changed my son's everyday life for the better. No more side effects.....no more mood swings....he is happy for once.

Lunacie
09-24-15, 10:15 AM
Sheesh, more scare-mongering about vaccines. :(
Vaccines save lives. Check out death rates from measles and polio and other
diseases and compare the rates from 50 years ago to the rates just 10 years
ago.

She asks "What is a safe level of poison?" as if there is NO safe level.
But that's not true. Many poisonous plants are medically beneficial when given
in the correct dose ... such as foxglove, which gives us digitalis which is used
to prevent heart attacks and minimize damage from heart attacks.

As far as gluten and casein, we tried the gluten-free diet with my autistic
granddaughter and saw no benefit whatever. It's over-hyped in my opinion.

That's as far as I got. I just couldn't stomach any more of her tripe.

sarahsweets
09-24-15, 11:33 AM
More crap to sling around the forum. Some obscure interview with a science ignorant doctor on a blog. Oh the proof! Its making me swoon.

Lunacie
09-24-15, 11:46 AM
More crap to sling around the forum. Some obscure interview with a science ignorant doctor on a blog. Oh the proof! Its making me swoon.

Proof?

I went back and skimmed to see if there have been any reputable studies done.
Didn't see any listed.

What I did see was "I suspect that ... " and "I think ... " and "It appears ... "

Little Missy
09-24-15, 12:55 PM
http://www.printfriendly.com/print/?source=homepage&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mothering.com%2Farticles%2Fba lancing-biochemistry-an-interview-with-stephanie-cave%2F

I recommend this article to parents who are looking to try and find alternative means of treatment for adhd. This form of treatment has dramatically changed my son's everyday life for the better. No more side effects.....no more mood swings....he is happy for once.

Well, I am sure am glad things are going groovy with your son!:)

shane_udhf
09-24-15, 04:50 PM
well if you actually read the article and can understand without being so closed minded.....the article is old and the main point is for a person whose body does not give off metals, vaccines could be toxic. Does not take common core to figure this one out. This doctor testified before congress and i find it funny that drug makers have pretty much stopped using the mercury.

Anyway i did not post this article to talk about vaccines but rather to shed light on the doctors findings with children who have adhd and autism. She plainly states that after doing test on lots of children (research) they have found that a big percentage (not all) have high levels of metals in their system. Furthermore, after undergoing treatment for the metals they were able to help many of them (not all). So to those who state that a treatment did not work for them well that is ok, but that does not mean that it want help someone else, so try and stay objective rather than so negative.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything here but i do testify to the positive results that have been made with my child and my friends that also have there children being treated.

I stated in prior post that i was referred to this doctor by a friend. Just so happens this friend has a son who was born normal. he explained that he was walking and talking at age 2 just like any other child. He said that when his son received his 2 year old vaccines that with in just a couple months that his child was diagnosed autistic. He said he could not understand how his child was normal one day and just few days later could not talk and walk. He went through a lot finally finding this doctor who did a metals test on his son which resulted in a finding of his son retains metals. the doctor has been treating him now for several years and he is no longer having autistic behaviors.

shane_udhf
09-24-15, 05:39 PM
as far as " I think" "it appears" "I suspect" I expect she does not state definitively her findings for the simple reason that most of us know that it is a lawyers world out there.......but she did testify before congress but hey we know what's up there too!

Lunacie
09-24-15, 05:42 PM
Sorry, but doing tests is not the same thing as multiple blind studies which
show the same results consistently. Sorry, but saying things like "I suspect,
or it appears, or I think ... don't go far towards establishing her credibility
or knowledge.

It may be possible that for some reason those with autism are not able to
process and rid themselves of environmental heavy metals.

Since there is very little modern medicine can offer in the form of treatment
for autism, parents are easily suckered into trying whatever anyone offers
because they want the best for their kids. Many things are currently being
tried and tested, and those who can afford to explore those options may
well do so. But I think one has to be careful of suggesting these things are
anything but experiments on our children.

Lunacie
09-24-15, 05:49 PM
well if you actually read the article and can understand without being so closed minded.....
.

Just because I'm not jumping up and down and shouting YAY! doesn't mean
I don't understand or am being closed minded. Some of the experiments that
are being done on these special needs children are quite alarming ... such as
chiropractic on infants under six months for example.

shane_udhf
09-24-15, 07:00 PM
I understand where you are coming from Lunacie....my intent is to share proven results and the science behind it. as far as the doctors testing is concerned a simple urine test and one blood test is pretty much all that is required to tell if a child retains metals. I would think if one was to do test on children with adhd and autism and compare against children that are not demonstrating those behaviors would provide some results that could be compared and studied especially after testing hundreds of children....just saying......

Lunacie
09-24-15, 07:06 PM
I understand where you are coming from Lunacie....my intent is to share proven results and the science behind it. as far as the doctors testing is concerned a simple urine test and one blood test is pretty much all that is required to tell if a child retains metals. I would think if one was to do test on children with adhd and autism and compare against children that are not demonstrating those behaviors would provide some results that could be compared and studied especially after testing hundreds of children....just saying......

My point is that this kind of testing doesn't seem to have been done so far.
Comparing neurotypical children and those with adhd or autism I mean.

I'd feel better about putting my child or grandchild through a chelation if
there was some research showing that there is a difference in the ability
to rid the body of toxic levels of heavy metal ... and that doing so really
lessened the symptoms and impairments.

shane_udhf
09-24-15, 08:28 PM
Lunacie, there are doctors out there that have done it. I have talked to this doctor and she explained what she has accomplished over the years. i had a lot of questions for her on the topic and she sat and answered them. Lunacie, I know how you feel, i had to weigh it all out myself. The metals test was the spring board for us. I made my mind up that I would get that done and see what it revealed before i did anything else. i actually had to wait a year to see this doctor but in the meantime the friend that recommended me has a son that is a neurologist and i got him to do a metals test. He did a urine and a hair which when the results came in my son appeared to not have any mercury in his urine or hair to amount to anything. My friend told me that could be because my son was retaining metals. Dr. Cave did her test which she included a blood test. Turns out my son did have some metals but she said it did not warrant IV chelation. She is using something called chelex to help with the metals. There is a few different ways of doing chelation and my friend opted to go the IV route and DR. Cave uses creams and pills so he actually sought treatment with a DR. Buttar who practices in North Carolina. Lunacie, after going through what me and my family have endured, I have so many more questions that I want to answer with this illness. I know you probably know this already that chelation also gets rid of some good things in the body and that is why a person who specializes in this should do it. They have to know what to put back into the body to get proper results.

sarahsweets
09-25-15, 03:50 AM
I have talked to this doctor and she explained what she has accomplished over the years. i had a lot of questions for her on the topic and she sat and answered them.
So what? Of course she answered them-with her own agenda and in a way that supports her theories regardless of evidence and against good science.
Dr. Cave did her test which she included a blood test. Turns out my son did have some metals but she said it did not warrant IV chelation. She is using something called chelex to help with the metals. There is a few different ways of doing chelation and my friend opted to go the IV route and DR. Cave uses creams and pills so he actually sought treatment with a DR. Buttar who practices in North Carolina. Lunacie, after going through what me and my family have endured, I have so many more questions that I want to answer with this illness. I know you probably know this already that chelation also gets rid of some good things in the body and that is why a person who specializes in this should do it. They have to know what to put back into the body to get proper results.

Are you saying that some people actually use a form of IV therapy for this junk? To me that sounds like child abuse.
There is no science behind any of these as treatments. Maybe there is some science buried somewhere in these ideas you are talking about but as far as the therapies you are mentioning, they have been tested and found safe or accurate.
Honestly, it would be one thing if you made a thread and said "this is working for my kid" but you have a thread that uses words like proof, evidence and studies, none of which are peer reviewed, monitored,or recommended.

shane_udhf
09-25-15, 07:50 AM
So what? Of course she answered them-with her own agenda and in a way that supports her theories regardless of evidence and against good science.


Are you saying that some people actually use a form of IV therapy for this junk? To me that sounds like child abuse.
There is no science behind any of these as treatments. Maybe there is some science buried somewhere in these ideas you are talking about but as far as the therapies you are mentioning, they have been tested and found safe or accurate.
Honestly, it would be one thing if you made a thread and said "this is working for my kid" but you have a thread that uses words like proof, evidence and studies, none of which are peer reviewed, monitored,or recommended.

Chelation is not new by any means. Until you have tried some of these procedures and actually talked face to face with some of these doctors and patients that have been treated all you have to go off of is google! In my book that does not mean much......like I have said before if you want something you can find it on the internet but fact is it could be wrong and it could be right. There are people who truly want other options other than medications and they are out there, however folks like yourself I guess have settled for medications and hey I am not knocking you for it.

Lunacie
09-25-15, 10:41 AM
...

I stated in prior post that i was referred to this doctor by a friend. Just so happens this friend has a son who was born normal. he explained that he was walking and talking at age 2 just like any other child. He said that when his son received his 2 year old vaccines that with in just a couple months that his child was diagnosed autistic. He said he could not understand how his child was normal one day and just few days later could not talk and walk. He went through a lot finally finding this doctor who did a metals test on his son which resulted in a finding of his son retains metals. the doctor has been treating him now for several years and he is no longer having autistic behaviors.

I wonder why some kids aren't able to sluff off these metals so they reach
toxic levels while other kids don't have this problem?

shane_udhf
09-25-15, 11:48 AM
I wonder why some kids aren't able to sluff off these metals so they reach
toxic levels while other kids don't have this problem?That is a good question, where and what is the link. Lunacie you know as well as me too much of anything is not good. I start thinking about it and think along the lines of heart disease......some families have it more than others. Why is this? Better yet I know a particular family that I have know all my life and pretty much the whole family has some mental issues on the mothers side. You can actually go back into her family tree and track it. She has 4 children and two of them must have inherited what ever it is. What is causing this....

my children are from two different marriages my oldest is from my first wife and the other three from the second. My oldest has adhd and the other three do not. so question is did it come from her or me or does it even matter?

Lunacie
09-25-15, 12:07 PM
That is a good question, where and what is the link. Lunacie you know as well as me too much of anything is not good. I start thinking about it and think along the lines of heart disease......some families have it more than others. Why is this? Better yet I know a particular family that I have know all my life and pretty much the whole family has some mental issues on the mothers side. You can actually go back into her family tree and track it. She has 4 children and two of them must have inherited what ever it is. What is causing this....

my children are from two different marriages my oldest is from my first wife and the other three from the second. My oldest has adhd and the other three do not. so question is did it come from her or me or does it even matter?

So many conditions have a hereditary basis. My mom's family as well has
many with ADHD and/or Autism, also Anxiety and Depression. My dad's
family has a history of migraine disorder which I inherited.

Some people might want to know this kind of history to consider whether
they feel they could effectively parent children who inherit the condition.
Others would just love their children.

I wasn't aware of the risk for heart disease in my family until my daughter
was already an adult. My dad and my ex both had heart attacks within a
few months of each other. I felt like I was holding my breath when my
daughter reached the same age as her dad had been when he had his
first heart attack. We're two years past that now, and I feel I can breathe.

But my dad ended up with dementia, was that related to the heart issue?
I can't help but worry for myself since I'm getting older.

shane_udhf
09-25-15, 12:48 PM
So many conditions have a hereditary basis. My mom's family as well has
many with ADHD and/or Autism, also Anxiety and Depression. My dad's
family has a history of migraine disorder which I inherited.

Some people might want to know this kind of history to consider whether
they feel they could effectively parent children who inherit the condition.
Others would just love their children.

I wasn't aware of the risk for heart disease in my family until my daughter
was already an adult. My dad and my ex both had heart attacks within a
few months of each other. I felt like I was holding my breath when my
daughter reached the same age as her dad had been when he had his
first heart attack. We're two years past that now, and I feel I can breathe.

But my dad ended up with dementia, was that related to the heart issue?
I can't help but worry for myself since I'm getting older.

I am seeing an up tick in the talk about dementia, my grandmother is 91 years old and has it. I know people are living longer these days but when I was coming up I did not see as much of it as we are seeing now. I do know that after my grandfather died she did not have a good diet so to speak. She lived alone and did not drive and would have my dad or his sister take her to the grocery once a month. My grandfather always raised a garden with fresh vegetables....She was sharp as a tack then after he died she started having issues about 6 or 7 years later. now she is like a 3 year old and just sits all day tearing up magazine pages and folding them and sticking them into a walmart bag. What is causing it? is it biochemistry, hereditary or culture induced....

Lunacie
09-25-15, 01:19 PM
I am seeing an up tick in the talk about dementia, my grandmother is 91 years old and has it. I know people are living longer these days but when I was coming up I did not see as much of it as we are seeing now. I do know that after my grandfather died she did not have a good diet so to speak. She lived alone and did not drive and would have my dad or his sister take her to the grocery once a month. My grandfather always raised a garden with fresh vegetables....She was sharp as a tack then after he died she started having issues about 6 or 7 years later. now she is like a 3 year old and just sits all day tearing up magazine pages and folding them and sticking them into a walmart bag. What is causing it? is it biochemistry, hereditary or culture induced....

I think there have been studies done that show that social contact improves
mental function in all of us, especially in older people who don't work any
more. I heard about it on NPR talk radio and seem to remember that studies
were done.

BellaVita
09-25-15, 09:59 PM
There is NO "autism epidemic" - it has been around forever. It's just that it didn't start getting diagnosed until recently. It didn't start getting recognition and awareness until recently.

Furthermore, it's not a disease. It shouldn't be called an "epidemic."

The epidemic with autism really started during the late 1980s and early 1990s,...

Hmm, I wonder if that had anything to do with it being recognized?

Autism was first included as a separate category in DSM-3 in 1980 when it was called 'infantile autism'. This was later changed to 'autistic disorder' in 1987. Asperger's disorder (syndrome) was added to DSM-4 in 1994.

Strange how the "epidemic" started once autism began getting diagnosed.

The vaccine myth has been debunked so many many times, it's not even a topic of discussion anymore at this point.

How would NTs feel if we kept trying to get rid of them and called them an "epidemic?" Because really, NTs are really spreading and taking over the world, they're more of an "epidemic" than autism. (I'm just saying this to make a point)

Aside from that, any doctor who begins talking about "gluten free" for a treatment you know is a quack.

Did you know gluten only affects those in a negative way when you have Celiac Disease?

Most people are totally fine with gluten, it's just become the most popular fad to go "gluten-free."

MM: There are reports of autistic children who consumed copious quantities of milk and wheat. Now we know why–they were self-medicating in the only way they could. SC: Exactly. So one of the primary treatments we do is to make sure they’re on a casein-free, gluten-free diet. That can make a 60 percent or greater difference in their behavior. It’s amazing to see the difference in behavior when the diet is changed.

That is ridiculous. I'm allergic to dairy, I hardly ate it as a kid because I couldn't tolerate it. I also went gluten-free at some times because I was surrounded by people who appreciated pseudoscience. None of that reduced my autistic symptoms one bit.

Autism is a developmental disorder our brains are differently wired, and structured a bit differently....it's not something that's fixed with diet. You're born with it.

SC: It is. And it’s a tough practice, physically-there are days when we come out of there with bites and scratches and bruises, and we have to put the office back together, but for the most part, we know the children are going to improve a whole lot.

You know what? I would be biting and scratching too if I had to go through that "treatment."

In most of the ones that resolve, the children go from not having any speech or eye contact to complete dialogue with good eye contact.

Those poor kids, getting forced to be neurotypical look-a-likes. :( When will neurotypicals get it that eye contact isn't everything (and it's painful!) and being forced to speak through being verbal can be painful as well, and it's really unnecessary. Many non-verbal autistics actually prefer to use devices such as iPads for communication, it just feels better to them and is more natural and less hurtful.

Within about six to eight months time, they get to a point where you can’t tell that they were ever autistic.

That just breaks my heart. That is sick. There is nothing wrong with being autistic or acting autistic. These people are stripping autistics of their identity, making them pretend to be someone they're not. It's really disturbing and makes me feel torn apart inside.

Chelation therapy is dangerous and not an effective treatment for those with autism, children have literally died from this horrible therapy.

It's unsafe and not okay for kids with autism. Period.

That article was very disturbing and scientifically inaccurate, I hope you stop giving this horrible "treatment" to your child because it can result in death.

BellaVita
09-25-15, 10:04 PM
Also, the article continuously confuses correlation with causation, and really, they should know better.

dvdnvwls
09-25-15, 10:27 PM
I am seeing an up tick in the talk about dementia, my grandmother is 91 years old and has it. I know people are living longer these days but when I was coming up I did not see as much of it as we are seeing now. I do know that after my grandfather died she did not have a good diet so to speak. She lived alone and did not drive and would have my dad or his sister take her to the grocery once a month. My grandfather always raised a garden with fresh vegetables....She was sharp as a tack then after he died she started having issues about 6 or 7 years later. now she is like a 3 year old and just sits all day tearing up magazine pages and folding them and sticking them into a walmart bag. What is causing it? is it biochemistry, hereditary or culture induced....

Of course you're seeing an "up tick" in "the talk" about dementia - your grandmother has it! (and this means you're likely at the age where more of your friends' grandparents have it too.) Unless you were already intensively studying dementia long before it happened to anyone you knew, you have no way of knowing whether in fact "the talk" has actually increased, decreased, or stayed about the same.

Lunacie
09-25-15, 10:59 PM
Of course you're seeing an "up tick" in "the talk" about dementia - your grandmother has it! (and this means you're likely at the age where more of your friends' grandparents have it too.) Unless you were already intensively studying dementia long before it happened to anyone you knew, you have no way of knowing whether in fact "the talk" has actually increased, decreased, or stayed about the same.

I got curious and went back to www.alz.org to see if there really is an up tick
in the diagnosis of Alzheimer's. I wondered if the fact that the population is
shifting towards the aging might account for any increase. Turns out that's
true. And yet, the overall risk for developing Alzheimer's is declining because
of better cardiovascular health care.

My dad had a heart attack when he was 70 and had bypass surgery. He was
supposed to get his valve replaced after 5 years, but refused to have further
surgery. By the age of 80 he was developing Dementia. Did his heart disease
have something to do with developing dementia? Very possibly.


A growing number of studies indicate that the age-specific risk of Alzheimer’s
and other dementias in the United States and other higher-income Western
countries may have declined in the past 25 years, though results are mixed.
These declines have largely been attributed to increasing levels of education
and improved control of cardiovascular risk factors.

Such findings are promising and suggest that identifying and reducing risk
factors for Alzheimer’s and other dementias may be effective.

Although these findings indicate that a person’s risk of dementia at any given
age may be decreasing slightly, it should be noted that the total number of
Americans with Alzheimer’s and other dementias is expected to continue to
increase dramatically because of the population’s shift to older ages (see
Looking to the Future).

Thus, while these findings are promising, they are outweighed by the aging of
the population, and the social and economic burden of Alzheimer’s and other
dementias will continue to grow.

https://www.alz.org/facts/downloads/facts_figures_2015.pdf

dvdnvwls
09-25-15, 10:59 PM
shane_udhf:

One of the biggest problems that exists today in all of medicine is the way that quacks prey on anyone "searching for answers". For nearly anything for which anyone is "searching for answers", there is an army of quacks waiting, "answers" prepared. Those answers aren't true, but the quacks dress up their false answers to look plausible, because they know that when someone (especially nervous parents) is desperate for an answer to a difficult health question, if they find something that looks as if it might work, they will pay big money to try it out.

If you look for answers to a difficult health question and you find them, chances are those answers are not legitimate.

What you have found in this situation is definitely one of those quack answers. Posting quack answers as "interesting" is a major disservice to all who might read it.

shane_udhf
09-25-15, 11:14 PM
There is NO "autism epidemic" - it has been around forever. It's just that it didn't start getting diagnosed until recently. It didn't start getting recognition and awareness until recently.

Furthermore, it's not a disease. It shouldn't be called an "epidemic."



Hmm, I wonder if that had anything to do with it being recognized?



Strange how the "epidemic" started once autism began getting diagnosed.

The vaccine myth has been debunked so many many times, it's not even a topic of discussion anymore at this point.

How would NTs feel if we kept trying to get rid of them and called them an "epidemic?" Because really, NTs are really spreading and taking over the world, they're more of an "epidemic" than autism. (I'm just saying this to make a point)

Aside from that, any doctor who begins talking about "gluten free" for a treatment you know is a quack.

Did you know gluten only affects those in a negative way when you have Celiac Disease?

Most people are totally fine with gluten, it's just become the most popular fad to go "gluten-free."



That is ridiculous. I'm allergic to dairy, I hardly ate it as a kid because I couldn't tolerate it. I also went gluten-free at some times because I was surrounded by people who appreciated pseudoscience. None of that reduced my autistic symptoms one bit.

Autism is a developmental disorder our brains are differently wired, and structured a bit differently....it's not something that's fixed with diet. You're born with it.



You know what? I would be biting and scratching too if I had to go through that "treatment."



Those poor kids, getting forced to be neurotypical look-a-likes. :( When will neurotypicals get it that eye contact isn't everything (and it's painful!) and being forced to speak through being verbal can be painful as well, and it's really unnecessary. Many non-verbal autistics actually prefer to use devices such as iPads for communication, it just feels better to them and is more natural and less hurtful.



That just breaks my heart. That is sick. There is nothing wrong with being autistic or acting autistic. These people are stripping autistics of their identity, making them pretend to be someone they're not. It's really disturbing and makes me feel torn apart inside.

Chelation therapy is dangerous and not an effective treatment for those with autism, children have literally died from this horrible therapy.

It's unsafe and not okay for kids with autism. Period.

That article was very disturbing and scientifically inaccurate, I hope you stop giving this horrible "treatment" to your child because it can result in death.
Well for starters this is an old article and further more they no longer use the mercury in vaccines, explain that one to me? if you want to read something read a MSDS sheet on mercury. A MSDS is required by law at the work place for every chemical that is used at the particular job.

my son is not gluten free and he drinks dairy....so i am right there with you. we have tried to better all of my kids diets and try to not eat as much processed foods. i stopped buying the little debbies and focused more on the fruits and healthy snaks.

when you say that your brain is wired differently explain to me just how so?
The doctors and school teachers have been telling me the same thing about my son but funny thing is they cant tell me how he is wired differently or why....so enlighten me on this. (other than a spill about neurotransmitters which they attempt to correct with drugs)

the thing about chelation is it is a tool and if not respected you are right it can kill or injure people just like many other forms of available treatments in medical science. When advertisements come on tv for the medications that are used for treating ADHD if you listen right at the end they say all the side effects and possible other complications from the use of these drugs, that should scare you too! As far as my son is concerned he is not undergoing any crazy stuff that you read on google so as to ease your mind on this. I did not go to google as i was referred to the doctor by a friend. i joined this forum and wow i get all kinds of links and so called studies and on and on ramblings of what these doctors are doing. Sorry but its not happening the way these links portrait it.

so far my sons grades, hand writing and responsibility have improved with out having to use medication which caused him havoc over the past several years. i am pleased with the care provided so far.....oh and his eating habits have greatly improved and actually gaining weight and bulking up

There is an old saying that goes like this "Actions speak louder than words"

shane_udhf
09-25-15, 11:29 PM
Of course you're seeing an "up tick" in "the talk" about dementia - your grandmother has it! (and this means you're likely at the age where more of your friends' grandparents have it too.) Unless you were already intensively studying dementia long before it happened to anyone you knew, you have no way of knowing whether in fact "the talk" has actually increased, decreased, or stayed about the same.

i mean i am seeing it more on the tv is all.....

BellaVita
09-25-15, 11:36 PM
Well for starters this is an old article and further more they no longer use the mercury in vaccines, explain that one to me? if you want to read something read a MSDS sheet on mercury. A MSDS is required by law at the work place for every chemical that is used at the particular job.

Maybe it was in response to all of the fear-mongering?

I will have to research, but I think maybe they just found better methods for vaccination.

my son is not gluten free and he drinks dairy....so i am right there with you. we have tried to better all of my kids diets and try to not eat as much processed foods. i stopped buying the little debbies and focused more on the fruits and healthy snaks.

Well that's always good. Being healthy helps anyone.

when you say that your brain is wired differently explain to me just how so?
The doctors and school teachers have been telling me the same thing about my son but funny thing is they cant tell me how he is wired differently or why....so enlighten me on this. (other than a spill about neurotransmitters which they attempt to correct with drugs)

The ADHD brain and the autism brain are different than the neurotypical brain.

Manu studies using fMRI machines have seen how different regions of the brain light up for those with ADHD and autism than the typical areas in those with NT brains.

I also know that certain parts of the brain have been found to be smaller in size for ADHD'ers, I can't remember off the top of my head which regions but a quick search on the internet of peer-reviewed studies will show this.

People with ADHD have emotional dysregulation that affects their brain, they are more often in "fight or flight" mode and autistics experience a huge "fight or flight" mode when they meltdown.

Also, ask any ADHD're or autistic if they feel wired the same as an NT - you'll bet the answer will always be "no, I feel like my brain works differently" - which is true.

the thing about chelation is it is a tool and if not respected you are right it can kill or injure people just like many other forms of available treatments in medical science. When advertisements come on tv for the medications that are used for treating ADHD if you listen right at the end they say all the side effects and possible other complications from the use of these drugs, that should scare you too! As far as my son is concerned he is not undergoing any crazy stuff that you read on google so as to ease your mind on this. I did not go to google as i was referred to the doctor by a friend. i joined this forum and wow i get all kinds of links and so called studies and on and on ramblings of what these doctors are doing. Sorry but its not happening the way these links portrait it.

It is only supposed to be used for those who have heavy metal intoxication - like consuming lots of lead.

This doesn't happen much nowadays(due to the recall of several children's toys that contained lead), and really if this treatment is done it needs to be supervised by doctors.

You can't just strip your child of resources.

No, it shouldn't scare us! ADHD treatments have been studied for decades and are completely safe when taken at therapeutic dosages.

The ads by law have to say all of the possible side-effects for medications, because the clinical trials are very through and it is law that they must report any side-effect that occurred during the trials. (Even if the side-effects aren't likely going to happen in real life)

Chelation therapy for treatment for autism and ADHD is not approved by the FDA as far as I'm aware, and so it's very unwise and dangerous to go dive into that treatment when it isn't even deamed safe - especially since there have already been disastrous results. (Children dying)

It's like - would you rather have a dead child or an ADHD/autistic child?

The stuff I read in the article you provided is crazy and dangerous.

Those "so called" studies you talk about other members posting are peer-reviewed and worth looking in to, the members are reacting this way because we are concerned for the safety of your son.

Please do not dig your heels in and refuse to look at the science - your son could be at risk here and could suffer fatal consequences if he keeps undergoing this dangerous and unethical treatment.

so far my sons grades, hand writing and responsibility have improved with out having to use medication which caused him havoc over the past several years. i am pleased with the care provided so far.....oh and his eating habits have greatly improved and actually gaining weight and bulking up

There is an old saying that goes like this "Actions speak louder than words"

This is probably correlation and I can assure you has nothing to do with the treatment he is being given.

Maybe he's just desperately trying to please you and show you he's "getting better" so he can stop having the dangerous treatment inflicted upon him.

Some kids don't tolerate medication at first, and then do tolerate it a few years later. There are several medications to try, which I would go down that route first and abandon this other treatment because the ADHD medications are actually studied and monitored.

He can also try fish oil as this works for a small percentage of people, or a non-stimulant medication.

dvdnvwls
09-26-15, 12:09 AM
i mean i am seeing it more on the tv is all.....

If you buy a certain car, you will start noticing all the other same ones on the road, even if you didn't notice them before. If your grandmother gets dementia, then when it gets mentioned on TV you'll sit up and pay attention, where two years ago (or whatever length of time) you might easily have let it go right past you without noticing.

dvdnvwls
09-26-15, 01:17 AM
Well for starters this is an old article and further more they no longer use the mercury in vaccines, explain that one to me? if you want to read something read a MSDS sheet on mercury. A MSDS is required by law at the work place for every chemical that is used at the particular job.

my son is not gluten free and he drinks dairy....so i am right there with you. we have tried to better all of my kids diets and try to not eat as much processed foods. i stopped buying the little debbies and focused more on the fruits and healthy snaks.

when you say that your brain is wired differently explain to me just how so?
The doctors and school teachers have been telling me the same thing about my son but funny thing is they cant tell me how he is wired differently or why....so enlighten me on this. (other than a spill about neurotransmitters which they attempt to correct with drugs)

the thing about chelation is it is a tool and if not respected you are right it can kill or injure people just like many other forms of available treatments in medical science. When advertisements come on tv for the medications that are used for treating ADHD if you listen right at the end they say all the side effects and possible other complications from the use of these drugs, that should scare you too! As far as my son is concerned he is not undergoing any crazy stuff that you read on google so as to ease your mind on this. I did not go to google as i was referred to the doctor by a friend. i joined this forum and wow i get all kinds of links and so called studies and on and on ramblings of what these doctors are doing. Sorry but its not happening the way these links portrait it.

so far my sons grades, hand writing and responsibility have improved with out having to use medication which caused him havoc over the past several years. i am pleased with the care provided so far.....oh and his eating habits have greatly improved and actually gaining weight and bulking up

There is an old saying that goes like this "Actions speak louder than words"

OK... shane_udhf... you found some people who (just like yourself) are desperate for answers, and unfortunately the people you found were already convinced of quack remedies. It's too bad that you've ended up in a situation where you're more or less surrounded by quack-believers, and I wish you the best in your eventual journey back out of there.

sarahsweets
09-26-15, 07:40 AM
I was gonna quote some of the stuff you wrote shane and break it down but I dont see the point. CLEARLY you would rather promote a dangerous life threatening treatment then acknowledge that your research is flawed. Its beyond responsible and frankly, lately here and elsewhere I am sick of it. When you come on an adhd support forum where there are thousands of threads on treatments with meds, coping skills and yes, even dietary; and then you begin touting a treatment which can kill someone I believe you cross the line. It might not fall under guideline violations like say, misusing meds, but as far as I am concerned it is no better than that.
NONE of the things you mention have been proven safe or effective and NONE of them have real evidence to back them up. You can go on and on saying you have talked to experts and it worked for your child , but if you put your child through this treatment then I believe it is child abuse because you can LITERALLY kill someone with this quack treatment. There is no way any of this can be explained away as a conspiracy by big pharma to squash the "real true" treatments of adhd. There are no conspiracies to keep the naturalpaths and pseudo-doctors from participating in the treatment of adhd- they just dont have the science or apparently the ethics to care about how many families they hurt physically or financially.

shane_udhf
09-26-15, 08:27 AM
I was gonna quote some of the stuff you wrote shane and break it down but I dont see the point. CLEARLY you would rather promote a dangerous life threatening treatment then acknowledge that your research is flawed. Its beyond responsible and frankly, lately here and elsewhere I am sick of it. When you come on an adhd support forum where there are thousands of threads on treatments with meds, coping skills and yes, even dietary; and then you begin touting a treatment which can kill someone I believe you cross the line. It might not fall under guideline violations like say, misusing meds, but as far as I am concerned it is no better than that.
NONE of the things you mention have been proven safe or effective and NONE of them have real evidence to back them up. You can go on and on saying you have talked to experts and it worked for your child , but if you put your child through this treatment then I believe it is child abuse because you can LITERALLY kill someone with this quack treatment. There is no way any of this can be explained away as a conspiracy by big pharma to squash the "real true" treatments of adhd. There are no conspiracies to keep the naturalpaths and pseudo-doctors from participating in the treatment of adhd- they just dont have the science or apparently the ethics to care about how many families they hurt physically or financially.

i don't know what quack treatment you are talking about. My sons doctor is not doing all the crap that your links are talking about. She is using a chelator......but regular doctors do it too.

Lunacie
09-26-15, 10:53 AM
when you say that your brain is wired differently explain to me just how so?
The doctors and school teachers have been telling me the same thing about my son but funny thing is they cant tell me how he is wired differently or why....so enlighten me on this. (other than a spill about neurotransmitters which they attempt to correct with drugs)



Here's some information on how the brains of those with autism are different
than neuro-typical brains. It also explains that these changes begin in the
womb, and thus are present at birth ... not caused by heavy metal exposure
in the growing child. (with links to research)

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/03/26/294446735/brain-changes-suggest-autism-starts-in-the-womb


And here's some information on how the brains of those with adhd are also
different from neuro-typical brains. (with a list of references)

http://www.adhd-institute.com/burden-of-adhd/aetiology/neurobiology/


It's easy to find more information on this by putting "autistic brain different"
or "adhd brain different" in the search engine.


It is well known that environmental factors can cause the impairments of
adhd to worsen (such as poor sleep, poor diet, no exercise), and research
indicates that the presence of heavy metals can also do this.

But it's doubtful that they actually cause either autism or adhd, therefore
treatments to remove the metals isn't going to remove the impairments
entirely, and won't prevent these metals from building up in the system
again.

Just as anytime you don't eat well, sleep well or get some exercise it will
increase the severity of symptoms.

Luvmybully
09-26-15, 12:12 PM
As far as my son is concerned he is not undergoing any crazy stuff that you read on google so as to ease your mind on this. I did not go to google as i was referred to the doctor by a friend. i joined this forum and wow i get all kinds of links and so called studies and on and on ramblings of what these doctors are doing. Sorry but its not happening the way these links portrait it.




The "so called studies"? Really?

You reject actual medical research, and blindly accept the word of these Drs you speak of.

You think that just because the person is speaking to you it MUST be true? And VALID? And reading the results of a study is questionable? Because it's online?

The crazy stuff you refer to is using treatements that are dangerous, in spite of no verifiable EVIDENCE that it works.

shane_udhf
09-26-15, 06:28 PM
I appreciate everyone for expressing their ideas and feelings in this thread. I have no quams about constructive critisism either for or against. We each have opinions of what is right, wrong, safe, unsafe....Somewhere in these threads i got away from my intent. Like some have said i could have titled the thread differently. I sincerely appoligize to anyone that i offended.

Looking over everything that has been said and discussed, if i were a visitor looking at this stuff i would probably laugh at some of the stuff myself and run away from this method of treatment. However, when ever we sought the treatment i did not look to the internet to treat my son. I simply went off a referral from a coworker that I happen to trust. I listend to the doctor and what she had to say. It was almost 4 hours of consultation to be exact plus a urine test, finger prick, and a blood test. That is invasive as it got. I was there every second with my son. She said some stuff that i find hard to believe on some things but out of respect i listened. I already had it in my mind why i was there and that was to have the possibility of heavy metals ruled out. She prescribed my son some supplements and said to take them as we wait for the lab test to return. My son took the supplements and the labs come in and she went over all the results with us. According to the results she changed some of the supplements. She encouraged a gluten free diet which we do not do...The effectiveness has been beneficial to my child as far as attitude, school work, and weight gain are concerned. my sons regular pediatrician has looked at everything prescribed and did not object. Something in her treatment is working and i am anxious to know how she has been able to do this because for the past several years its been a struggle to get results sticking to the main stream approach.


I do feel if I had read a thread that had all these claims and links and opinions etc...i would have not gone to this doctor and my son would still be struggling with adhd. That may strike a nerve with some folks but that is how I feel. Alot of the links and quotes has described anything but the treatment that was given to my son. Even the financial aspect of the claims have been off the mark.

There are some topics that have come up in these threads that strike my curiosity such as the talk about heavy metals, and mthfr. I don't want to advocate anything here other than i want to study these things more. I am aware of all the links and stuff posted on these things and have gotten a lot of opinions on these matters. There is always two sides to the story I personaly choose to look at both sides and form my own conclusions.

Chelation is a tool and if used irresponsibly can cause some major issues even death and there is no denying that.

Heavy metals are toxic and there are some theories that are being pursued which is what brought me to this doctor. If for some reason someone does not think heavy metals are toxic they are free to get some and play with it if they so choose.

We tell people not to drink and drive they still do it, we tell folks not to smoke because it causes cancer, we tell people not to text and drive and they still do it, we tell people that drug abuse will ruin their lives but they still do it.....There is going to be folks that are still going to attempt the natural pathic approach or integrative approach no matter what is said here. They can read my son's experience and see what a safe one looks like.

dvdnvwls
09-26-15, 06:58 PM
I appreciate everyone for expressing their ideas and feelings in this thread. I have no quams about constructive critisism either for or against. We each have opinions of what is right, wrong, safe, unsafe....Somewhere in these threads i got away from my intent. Like some have said i could have titled the thread differently. I sincerely appoligize to anyone that i offended.

Looking over everything that has been said and discussed, if i were a visitor looking at this stuff i would probably laugh at some of the stuff myself and run away from this method of treatment. However, when ever we sought the treatment i did not look to the internet to treat my son. I simply went off a referral from a coworker that I happen to trust. I listend to the doctor and what she had to say. It was almost 4 hours of consultation to be exact plus a urine test, finger prick, and a blood test. That is invasive as it got. I was there every second with my son. She said some stuff that i find hard to believe on some things but out of respect i listened. I already had it in my mind why i was there and that was to have the possibility of heavy metals ruled out. She prescribed my son some supplements and said to take them as we wait for the lab test to return. My son took the supplements and the labs come in and she went over all the results with us. According to the results she changed some of the supplements. She encouraged a gluten free diet which we do not do...The effectiveness has been beneficial to my child as far as attitude, school work, and weight gain are concerned. my sons regular pediatrician has looked at everything prescribed and did not object. Something in her treatment is working and i am anxious to know how she has been able to do this because for the past several years its been a struggle to get results sticking to the main stream approach.


I do feel if I had read a thread that had all these claims and links and opinions etc...i would have not gone to this doctor and my son would still be struggling with adhd. That may strike a nerve with some folks but that is how I feel. Alot of the links and quotes has described anything but the treatment that was given to my son. Even the financial aspect of the claims have been off the mark.

There are some topics that have come up in these threads that strike my curiosity such as the talk about heavy metals, and mthfr. I don't want to advocate anything here other than i want to study these things more. I am aware of all the links and stuff posted on these things and have gotten a lot of opinions on these matters. There is always two sides to the story I personaly choose to look at both sides and form my own conclusions.

Chelation is a tool and if used irresponsibly can cause some major issues even death and there is no denying that.

Heavy metals are toxic and there are some theories that are being pursued which is what brought me to this doctor. If for some reason someone does not think heavy metals are toxic they are free to get some and play with it if they so choose.

We tell people not to drink and drive they still do it, we tell folks not to smoke because it causes cancer, we tell people not to text and drive and they still do it, we tell people that drug abuse will ruin their lives but they still do it.....There is going to be folks that are still going to attempt the natural pathic approach or integrative approach no matter what is said here. They can read my son's experience and see what a safe one looks like.

Heavy metal poisoning is bad. Heavy metals are not bad or good in themselves.

"Theories being pursued" means one thing: a hunch. Somebody had a hunch. Fine... people get hunches, and that's a good thing.

The trouble is this: The hunch you're talking about has been around for years. No one has ever tested it - it's still just a hunch. The reason that there's a many-years-long hunch with no testing? Because the person with the hunch realizes that as soon as tests prove beyond a doubt that the hunch is false, they stop making money off people like yourself.

The originators of this hunch have known for a long time (perhaps all along) that there's actually nothing to it, that it actually doesn't work. Otherwise, guess what they would have been spending their time and money on - proper testing of their hunch.

shane_udhf
09-26-15, 08:38 PM
Heavy metal poisoning is bad. Heavy metals are not bad or good in themselves.

"Theories being pursued" means one thing: a hunch. Somebody had a hunch. Fine... people get hunches, and that's a good thing.

The trouble is this: The hunch you're talking about has been around for years. No one has ever tested it - it's still just a hunch. The reason that there's a many-years-long hunch with no testing? Because the person with the hunch realizes that as soon as tests prove beyond a doubt that the hunch is false, they stop making money off people like yourself.

The originators of this hunch have known for a long time (perhaps all along) that there's actually nothing to it, that it actually doesn't work. Otherwise, guess what they would have been spending their time and money on - proper testing of their hunch.

you do have a good point, Like I said my son was tested for them and the doctor said his metals are not really high. She has him taking the chelex for 10 weeks which is almost over. His next appointment is in January. I am debating to have him retested to see if the actual levels do change as compared to the first test. As I have said something is working but just what it is I don't know. my son's regular doctor said that after this long he would not say that it is the placebo effect. I want to see it on paper......some have said the test could be skewed maybe so....but if not I should see either 1 of two things which is a decrease in the levels or no change at all. I would think if there was no change then probably the chelex is not what it claims to be.

BellaVita
09-26-15, 09:37 PM
I appreciate everyone for expressing their ideas and feelings in this thread. I have no quams about constructive critisism either for or against. We each have opinions of what is right, wrong, safe, unsafe...

The problem is, these aren't opinions. Many have posted scientific links and peer-reviewed studies: these are facts and these facts contain the truth..

Somewhere in these threads i got away from my intent. Like some have said i could have titled the thread differently. I sincerely appoligize to anyone that i offended.

Looking over everything that has been said and discussed, if i were a visitor looking at this stuff i would probably laugh at some of the stuff myself and run away from this method of treatment. However, when ever we sought the treatment i did not look to the internet to treat my son. I simply went off a referral from a coworker that I happen to trust. I listend to the doctor and what she had to say. It was almost 4 hours of consultation to be exact plus a urine test, finger prick, and a blood test. That is invasive as it got. I was there every second with my son. She said some stuff that i find hard to believe on some things but out of respect i listened. I already had it in my mind why i was there and that was to have the possibility of heavy metals ruled out. She prescribed my son some supplements and said to take them as we wait for the lab test to return. My son took the supplements and the labs come in and she went over all the results with us. According to the results she changed some of the supplements. She encouraged a gluten free diet which we do not do...The effectiveness has been beneficial to my child as far as attitude, school work, and weight gain are concerned. my sons regular pediatrician has looked at everything prescribed and did not object. Something in her treatment is working and i am anxious to know how she has been able to do this because for the past several years its been a struggle to get results sticking to the main stream approach.


I do feel if I had read a thread that had all these claims and links and opinions etc...i would have not gone to this doctor and my son would still be struggling with adhd. That may strike a nerve with some folks but that is how I feel. Alot of the links and quotes has described anything but the treatment that was given to my son. Even the financial aspect of the claims have been off the mark.

There are some topics that have come up in these threads that strike my curiosity such as the talk about heavy metals, and mthfr. I don't want to advocate anything here other than i want to study these things more. I am aware of all the links and stuff posted on these things and have gotten a lot of opinions on these matters. There is always two sides to the story I personaly choose to look at both sides and form my own conclusions.

Chelation is a tool and if used irresponsibly can cause some major issues even death and there is no denying that.

Heavy metals are toxic and there are some theories that are being pursued which is what brought me to this doctor. If for some reason someone does not think heavy metals are toxic they are free to get some and play with it if they so choose.

We tell people not to drink and drive they still do it, we tell folks not to smoke because it causes cancer, we tell people not to text and drive and they still do it, we tell people that drug abuse will ruin their lives but they still do it.....There is going to be folks that are still going to attempt the natural pathic approach or integrative approach no matter what is said here. They can read my son's experience and see what a safe one looks like.

It's okay to try the natural path, to each their own.

What's not okay is putting your child in danger, whether you know that you are or not.

Now you know.

I read in another post of yours that your son didn't even test high for metals - that should be proof enough right there that he doesn't have metal poisoning and that all this treatment is doing is stripping his body of necessary resources.

It's not approved for ADHD or Autism treatment by the FDA, it doesn't have any research to backup the claims, and it has resulted in death.

I'm not sure why you would want to subject your child to that. :(

Even if you are seeing "results" - it still is unsafe.

Many parents send their autistic kids to a certain center, where they receive electric shocks and the kids experience great pain and trauma. (shock therapy)

Many parents swer by the results this produces.

But autistics have decided to speak up about how harmful it is, how much it tortured them and the pain it physically caused them.

It was even described as a torture method that would work for prisons or something. :(

Just because a treatment works - or seems to work - doesn't make it safe or okay. (And just because it says "therapy" next to its name - doesn't mean it actually is)

I hope you really consider the posts here and see that we are all concerned for the safety of your son, and don't want him to end up as another "statistic" of dead child by chelation therapy. :(

BellaVita
09-26-15, 09:59 PM
Please take a look at these links, it contains helpful information and the truth about certain "treatments" for autism(or ADHD):

Here is the warning from the FDA:
http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm394757.htm

Some of what it says:
“Chelation Therapies.” These products claim to cleanse the body of toxic chemicals and heavy metals by binding to them and “removing” them from circulation. They come in a number of forms, including sprays, suppositories, capsules, liquid drops and clay baths. FDA-approved chelating agents are approved for specific uses, such as the treatment of lead poisoning and iron overload, and are available by prescription only. FDA-approved prescription chelation therapy products should only be used under medical supervision. Chelating important minerals needed by the body can lead to serious and life-threatening outcomes.

Here is a list of the top 5 scariest treatments that are incredibly dangerous (and yes, chelation therapy is on there):

Chelation. Chelation is the process of using a chemical to strip metal from the blood. It’s a good thing if you have mercury poisoning, which autistic people do not have.
...
One of the metals in our bodies that we need to live is calcium–for example, it keeps our hearts beating–and at least one autistic child has died during a chelation “treatment” because it wiped the child’s blood of this life-supporting ion.

(This is taken from www dot forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2013/10/29/the-5-scariest-autism-treatments/)

(Bolding in both quotes done by me for emphasis)

Please see these, please take it seriously.

It's not your fault that you got talked into this by a quack doctor.

Also, your doctor could be up against lawsuits and in great trouble if they continue this type of treatment.

shane_udhf
09-26-15, 10:47 PM
Please take a look at these links, it contains helpful information and the truth about certain "treatments" for autism(or ADHD):

Here is the warning from the FDA:
http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm394757.htm

Some of what it says:


Here is a list of the top 5 scariest treatments that are incredibly dangerous (and yes, chelation therapy is on there):



(This is taken from www dot forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2013/10/29/the-5-scariest-autism-treatments/)

(Bolding in both quotes done by me for emphasis)

Please see these, please take it seriously.

It's not your fault that you got talked into this by a quack doctor.

Also, your doctor could be up against lawsuits and in great trouble if they continue this type of treatment.

Bella, thanks for the word of caution. I don't think the chelex is of any real extreme chelation strength like mentioned. I have not dug down to the info on each ingredient yet, but I will look more into it. here is some info on chelex at this link...https://www.xymogen.com/assets/imageDisplay.ashx?formulaID=440&attachmentTypeID=1

you all read it and look at some of the references and tell me what you think about it.

dvdnvwls
09-26-15, 11:21 PM
i don't know what quack treatment you are talking about. My sons doctor is not doing all the crap that your links are talking about. She is using a chelator......but regular doctors do it too.

Using a chelator (or doing any chelation treatment) is quackery when not used for its studied and proven purpose. Your doctor is a quack. I'm sorry to break it to you.

shane_udhf
09-26-15, 11:29 PM
Using a chelator (or doing any chelation treatment) is quackery when not used for its studied and proven purpose. Your doctor is a quack. I'm sorry to break it to you.

maybe she is but she sure is doing something right

Roundmouth
09-27-15, 01:49 AM
If an idea is only alternative enough, it must be good... No matter how wrong it is...

sarahsweets
09-27-15, 05:10 AM
maybe she is but she sure is doing something right

The only thing she is doing right is taking your money and getting you to buy into a quack idea because you are so desperate to help your son.

dvdnvwls
09-27-15, 04:04 PM
maybe she is but she sure is doing something right

Trusting a quack doctor is your right, if it's your body.

You do not have even the moral right to subject your son (i.e. another being, not yourself) to quack treatments. Of course you have the legal right to do so, but that doesn't make it good. For your son's sake, stop this now and take him to a real doctor.

shane_udhf
09-27-15, 10:23 PM
Trusting a quack doctor is your right, if it's your body.

You do not have even the moral right to subject your son (i.e. another being, not yourself) to quack treatments. Of course you have the legal right to do so, but that doesn't make it good. For your son's sake, stop this now and take him to a real doctor. if I had the time and resources I am sure that more people have been damaged and hurt from amphetamines and the psychotic line of drugs than chelation. every drug commercial that comes on tv reassures me of just how dangerous they are.....you don't hear that though.......and all the doctors that don't even do testing for adhd but just start slinging pills at the kids.....nope they don't do that either do they

shane_udhf
09-27-15, 10:31 PM
Thyroglobulin antibodies who can educate me on that........my son's CBC showed he had elevated levels of that too....

sarahsweets
09-28-15, 04:40 AM
if I had the time and resources I am sure that more people have been damaged and hurt from amphetamines and the psychotic line of drugs than chelation.
Sources please.
every drug commercial that comes on tv reassures me of just how dangerous they are.....you don't hear that though
My biggest pet peeve is that the US allows advertising on tv for drugs. I cant stand it, I believe in the UK this isnt allowed.
and all the doctors that don't even do testing for adhd but just start slinging pills at the kids
There are no tests of any kind for adhd. No blood tests, brain scans or IQ test that specifically can be used as diagnostic tools. And a good doctor wont just "sling" pills at a child to be lazy and treat them. The same slinging could be said of the things you were advised to do for your child. Its always up to the parent to research what their child will take, drugs or otherwise. The research behind stimulants specifically holds up.

BellaVita
09-28-15, 05:45 AM
if I had the time and resources I am sure that more people have been damaged and hurt from amphetamines and the psychotic line of drugs than chelation. every drug commercial that comes on tv reassures me of just how dangerous they are.....you don't hear that though.......and all the doctors that don't even do testing for adhd but just start slinging pills at the kids.....nope they don't do that either do they

I'm sure the list for chelation therapy would be just as long or longer than the TV ads for medications - the TV ads have to list the possible side effects because it is the law.

The medications for ADHD have been researched for decades.

The side-effects sheet is very thorough and honest.

There are no side-effects sheets for chelation therapy for ADHD and Autism treatment because there were no thorough clinical trials because it has already been deemed unsafe (and not an actual treatment for ADHD/autism) by the FDA.

That basically means that, it is much less safe to use chelation therapy because of that fact it is not thoroughly studied - in fact it's pretty scary to just jump right into using it considering the company is being dishonest about possible side effects. (Automatic dishonesty since there were no extensive studies)

It hasn't been thoroughly studied because it has been shown to be an unsafe and dangerous treatment for ADHD and Autism. (maybe there are actual studies showing that, which would be why it is not an okay treatment by the FDA? I'm not sure. All I know is that the FDA has a warning against using it and that it has been show to not work at all for those who have ADHD and Autism)

I hope I'm making sense.

shane_udhf
09-28-15, 07:57 AM
I'm sure the list for chelation therapy would be just as long or longer than the TV ads for medications - the TV ads have to list the possible side effects because it is the law.

The medications for ADHD have been researched for decades.

The side-effects sheet is very thorough and honest.

There are no side-effects sheets for chelation therapy for ADHD and Autism treatment because there were no thorough clinical trials because it has already been deemed unsafe (and not an actual treatment for ADHD/autism) by the FDA.

That basically means that, it is much less safe to use chelation therapy because of that fact it is not thoroughly studied - in fact it's pretty scary to just jump right into using it considering the company is being dishonest about possible side effects. (Automatic dishonesty since there were no extensive studies)

It hasn't been thoroughly studied because it has been shown to be an unsafe and dangerous treatment for ADHD and Autism. (maybe there are actual studies showing that, which would be why it is not an okay treatment by the FDA? I'm not sure. All I know is that the FDA has a warning against using it and that it has been show to not work at all for those who have ADHD and Autism)

I hope I'm making sense.

You are making perfect since, however there is a lot more to chelation than we have discussed here. In itself it is just a tool but it is how it is used that makes it dangerous. there has been a lot of talk about the quacks using it and all but where are they getting the idea from.....are they been taught it in medical school or what.......

BellaVita
09-28-15, 08:13 AM
You are making perfect since, however there is a lot more to chelation than we have discussed here. In itself it is just a tool but it is how it is used that makes it dangerous. there has been a lot of talk about the quacks using it and all but where are they getting the idea from.....are they been taught it in medical school or what.......

I am genuinely interested to know what you mean by "there is a lot more to chelation than we have discussed here."

I think you're correct about how it being used can be dangerous.

When it is used properly for treating someone who has heavy metal poisoning I think that is proper use. (Under medical supervision of a licensed doctor who only uses chelation treatment for the proper cases)

It becomes dangerous when it is used to treat things it wasn't designed to treat.

People are getting the idea that quacks use it because the doctors who use it to make money on a non-real treatment for ADHD and Autism (promoting it as a cure or therapy for autism/ADHD) are considered quacks.

I think being taught in a medical school doesn't guarantee that the person will properly practice medicine.

shane_udhf
09-28-15, 08:24 AM
I am genuinely interested to know what you mean by "there is a lot more to chelation than we have discussed here."

I think you're correct about how it being used can be dangerous.

When it is used properly for treating someone who has heavy metal poisoning I think that is proper use. (Under medical supervision of a licensed doctor who only uses chelation treatment for the proper cases)

It becomes dangerous when it is used to treat things it wasn't designed to treat.

People are getting the idea that quacks use it because the doctors who use it to make money on a non-real treatment for ADHD and Autism (promoting it as a cure or therapy for autism/ADHD) are considered quacks.

I think being taught in a medical school doesn't guarantee that the person will properly practice medicine.

i want dispute that they are pushing it as a money maker or a selling point but what i want to know is it the $$$$ creating that culture in their practice or is it being drilled in their heads in the medical schools that they are going to. Keep in mind that a lot of these are certified doctors that go on to get these other degrees to practice the NP. is it in these schools that this is being pushed as a treatment for these disorders?

moth2flame
09-28-15, 10:09 AM
What I think shane is really trying to say here is this: "my son has symptoms associated with poor detoxification, and he has shown improvement from therapies that boost detoxification." Is that right, shane? I happen to agree with you on this, and I'm going to link to some science that agrees with you, too.

To those asking, "where's the science?" Here you go:

Studies showing elevated metal accumulation (primarily mercury), and deficiencies/imbalances of key trace elements (copper, magnesium, zinc) in children with ASD:

"This study confirms earlier studies that implicate toxic metal accumulation as a consequence of impaired detoxification in autism and provides insight into the etiological mechanism of autism."
Source (abstract): A key role for an impaired detoxification mechanism in the etiology and severity of autism spectrum disorders, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24776096

"The frequency of zinc deficiency, copper toxicity and low zinc/copper in children with autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) may indicate decrement in metallothionein system functioning. A retrospective review of plasma zinc, serum copper and zinc/copper was performed on data from 230 children with autistic disorder, pervasive developmental disorder-NOS and Asperger's syndrome. The entire cohort's mean zinc level was 77.2 microg dl(-1), mean copper level was 131.5 microg dl(-1), and mean Zn/Cu was 0.608, which was below the 0.7 cut-off of the lowest 2.5% of healthy children. The plasma zinc/serum copper ratio may be a biomarker of heavy metal, particularly mercury, toxicity in children with ASDs."
Source (abstract): The plasma zinc/serum copper ratio as a biomarker in children with autism spectrum disorders, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23823984

"Increasing hair Hg concentrations significantly correlated with increased ASD severity. In contrast, no significant correlations were observed between any other of the hair toxic metals examined and ASD severity. This study helps to provide additional mechanistic support for Hg in the etiology of ASD severity, and is supported by an increasing number of recent critical reviews that provide biological plausibility for the role of Hg [Hg=mercury] exposure in the pathogenesis of ASDs."
Hair toxic metal concentrations and autism spectrum disorder severity in young children." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23222182

"The significant elevation in the concentration of Cu [copper], Pb [lead], and Hg [mercury] and significant decrease in the concentration of Mg [magnesium] and Se [selenium] observed in the hair and nail samples of autistic subjects could be well correlated with their degrees of severity.
Level of trace elements (copper, zinc, magnesium and selenium) and toxic elements (lead and mercury) in the hair and nail of children with autism. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20625937

If you don't want to have to read all of that:

Basically, there *is* quite a bit of evidence that some (though not all) ASD children do indeed have more trouble eliminating certain toxic elements, which means they can accumulate them where the "average" person would be able to just excrete them without a problem. The "why" and "how" is complicated and likely multiple factors all contribute, but the science is there that higher levels of certain metals and lower levels of certain minerals do indeed correlate with ASD. That's an observable scientific fact, whether the cause is heredity, genetics, epigenetics, exposure to chemicals, toxins, infections, vaccines, food/soil contamination, poor diet, air/water pollution, or any/all of the above.

I think it's only prudent to test for levels of various elements (good and bad) any time you have a mental or neurological illness (whether it's autism or depression or ADHD, or really any illness that otherwise has "no explanation") or have obvious signs of deficiency, because sometimes the simplest, and in the case of things like zinc, cheapest things can turn out to be really helpful.

And no one is getting rich off this, I promise you: my zinc gluconate, for example, costs about $4 a month. Even AFTER doubling my previous dosage recently (I figured out I actually was only taking about half the RDA before, which was not enough!)

Another supplement I feel worth mentioning is NAC, or N-Acetyl cysteine. I take 600mg/day, costs me about $8 a month. It's the precursor glutathione, a major antioxidant compound in the body. This increases glutathione levels, which among other things assists the liver and kidneys in removing toxins and free radicals. Has many proven medical benefits including for acetaminophen overdose, COPD and more:

http://examine.com/supplements/n-acetylcysteine/

Keep in mind though, I still take adderall to focus. I'm not planning to stop any time soon either. You can combine traditional ADHD meds with mineral supplementation to good ends. In fact, in case of long-term use (most of us), it's probably a really good idea to do so, given that stimulants are also diuretics, and by nature when you pee more you also risk excreting your stores of good minerals more quickly.

I'm very much pro-med for ADHD (and anxiety, and any problem they reasonably help someone with), as evidenced by the fact I take them myself. But I am also pro nutritional support where it's indicated, and sadly in our western world with our poor diets and heaps of stress and this veritable chemical soup we swim in every day... it very often seems to be.

HOWEVER, on the subject of chelation therapy specifically: it's a tricky subject because yes, this approach CAN indeed be dangerous. Absolutely do NOT do this without the help of a knowledgable MD and careful monitoring!! It's also probably not indicated, except in the most severe of cases or for recent acute poisonings. Then benefits might be greater than risks. But real harm can be done by doing it carelessly, so be VERY careful.

Simply testing metal levels to gather information, however, doesn't hurt anything, and may reveal some possible new treatment pathways.

There are also lots of other ways to help your body to detoxify itself, in a much slower and gentler way. Things as simple as certain foods, like parsley, cilantro and turmeric help your system to clear heavy metals, for example. Or epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) baths. NOT in a huge amount of anything all at once, or an extract or a supplement, but as the whole plant/mineral, in small amounts frequently, over an extended period of time is where you'd get the most benefit here. (I'd look up More Science on this topic, but I'm out of time/energy... feel free to look it up yourself, or I'll come back and add more about this later)

There are other forms of chelating that are much less drastic, too, and also much less dangerous... taking clay and such orally, but I haven't tried nor do I know much about this, so can't speak for its effectiveness... but not everyone knows how to tell the difference between these and the more risky chelation protocols, and yes, there ARE bad, greedy doctors out there adertising "natural" methods that can potentially doing more harm than good by over-treating the problem, whilst also getting rich off of desperate parents...

...but seriously, the same thing is true in the traditional western medical world! There are bad, greedy MDs who over-charge and over-treat with traditional drugs who can also do more harm than good. I know I have seen a few myself. Bad doctors exist everywhere, across all specialties, which is a sad fact of life. Good doctors who specialize in these things also exist, however. It's not all simply "quackery" as some here are asserting. Some of it really is based on cutting-edge science, even if you don't hear about it in the media (yet?). If you don't believe me: please, do go and research the science yourself! Don't just take my or anybody's word for it.

All that said, shane, I am very happy that something (or things) has worked so well for your son! Wish all of us could be so lucky... :D I unfortunately have what I think are additional causes of my ADHD - including likely neurological damage (from scarlet fever at age 5) - so a total cure is probably not attainable for me. But I know I feel better than I have in 20 years (I'm 33) with a combo of adderall and a few key supplements, so I'll happily take what improvements I can get!

Lunacie
09-28-15, 11:10 AM
if I had the time and resources I am sure that more people have been damaged and hurt from amphetamines and the psychotic line of drugs than chelation. every drug commercial that comes on tv reassures me of just how dangerous they are.....you don't hear that though.......and all the doctors that don't even do testing for adhd but just start slinging pills at the kids.....nope they don't do that either do they

No doubt more people have been treated with stimulant meds over many,
many years than have been treated with chelation, so of course any who
have taken damage from these meds will also be higher. But if you compare
percentages, then you'll find the real story.

The drug companies have to warn about possible side effects, whether they
were actually caused by the meds during clinical trials or by some other
health condition. Those warnings don't mean the meds are truly dangerous,
otherwise they would not have been in use for over 50 years.

BellaVita
09-28-15, 11:44 AM
What I think shane is really trying to say here is this: "my son has symptoms associated with poor detoxification, and he has shown improvement from therapies that boost detoxification."

No, Shane was referring to ADHD:

"I recommend this article to parents who are looking to try and find alternative means of treatment for adhd."

I really wish Amtram were here right now.

Chelation therapy for ADHD/autism is already considered very unsafe and dangerous by the FDA and they warn against using it. (See my post on previous page that has quote from FDA)

Also, I really don't have the brain power right now to look at those studies - but one thing:
Correlation does not imply causation.

I saw that word (correlation) used quite frequently when I read your post.

Also when I hear "detoxification" I can't help but think of quackery, as it is strongly associated with it. (Detox products for example) Also when I hear "boost" (eg "boost immune system" or "boost detoxification") my quackery senses tingle.

I have a very thorough article about that saved to my device and can find it some time if needed.

Also, Shane has already said that their son doesn't have high metal levels.

Just adding some clarification :)

moth2flame
09-28-15, 12:37 PM
No, Shane was referring to ADHD:


Hmm, he's referred to a few things throughout the thread, not only ADHD (or else how did we even get on autism?). It appears he did say that to start with. But if I recall right from another thread, he said his son had been diagnosed with ADHD, but improved enough from dietary supplements to not need standard meds. I see no problem at all with him sharing this story, personally. This won't work for everyone, but it might work for some.

Also, I really don't have the brain power right now to look at those studies - but one thing:
Correlation does not imply causation. So you ask, "show me the science!" And then when attempt to do just that, you tell me you're not going to bother even looking at it? Okay then...

I also never said a word about causation, nor claimed any of those studies did. I was careful not to say that for this very reason, because I figured someone would bring out this tired argument. And yes, I am very well aware these two concepts are not universally interchangable. Never claimed they were, either.

None of those studies claim to identify causation, but that's not the point: *just* correlation *is* a significant finding, and in scientific research often points to areas that are important to the whole picture, and deserve more study. I firmly believe this is an area that deserves much more study, after a huge amount of personal research I have done on this topic (hundreds of hours) as well as recent discussions with my own PMHNP who oversees my ADHD meds/treatment.

I saw that word (correlation) used quite frequently when I read your post.Yep! Correlation does not AUTOMATICALLY equal causation... but that DOES NOT mean that correlation NEVER equals causation! Sometimes correlation and causation do line up. But not always. You cannot make assumptions in either direction on this. That is why more studies are needed.

Also when I hear "detoxification" I can't help but think of quackery, as it is strongly associated with it. (Detox products for example) Also when I hear "boost" (eg "boost immune system" or "boost detoxification") my quackery senses tingle.Just because the word has been co-opted as a buzzword by people trying to sell junk detox products (and there are plenty of those out there) that does *not* mean that "detoxification" is not a relevant scientific term on its own, because it is.

I am not using it as a buzzword, I am referring to the complex global system the human body innately has to rid itself of toxins: like, you know, organs whose primary function is detoxification, like the liver and kidneys! And the lymphatic system, and lungs, and colon, and skin, and engogenous antioxidants... hopefully you get the idea here... this is a biological term first and foremost, and that is how I am using it. I'm not trying to sell you anything.

I have a very thorough article about that saved to my device and can find it some time if needed.

Also, Shane has already said that their son doesn't have high metal levels.[/quote]

Yes, shane said his son does not have high metal levels. But he's said in another thread his son does have a MTHFR mutation, which seems to affect the body's ability to utilize certain compounds (like folate) which are extremely important for cellular metabolism, which includes the function of... yep... *detoxification* of normal cellular wastes as well as environmental toxins. And the discussion here shifted to correlations between levels of metals/minerals and ASD in general (rather than specifically about shane's son) so I was addressing that generally, not his son specifically.

I seem to recall his son was also low in some essential minerals and that supplementation has helped correct this? Could be wrong there, so I'll let him correct me on this if I am.

shane_udhf
09-28-15, 02:11 PM
What I think shane is really trying to say here is this: "my son has symptoms associated with poor detoxification, and he has shown improvement from therapies that boost detoxification." Is that right, shane? I happen to agree with you on this, and I'm going to link to some science that agrees with you, too.

To those asking, "where's the science?" Here you go:

Studies showing elevated metal accumulation (primarily mercury), and deficiencies/imbalances of key trace elements (copper, magnesium, zinc) in children with ASD:

"This study confirms earlier studies that implicate toxic metal accumulation as a consequence of impaired detoxification in autism and provides insight into the etiological mechanism of autism."
Source (abstract): A key role for an impaired detoxification mechanism in the etiology and severity of autism spectrum disorders, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24776096

"The frequency of zinc deficiency, copper toxicity and low zinc/copper in children with autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) may indicate decrement in metallothionein system functioning. A retrospective review of plasma zinc, serum copper and zinc/copper was performed on data from 230 children with autistic disorder, pervasive developmental disorder-NOS and Asperger's syndrome. The entire cohort's mean zinc level was 77.2 microg dl(-1), mean copper level was 131.5 microg dl(-1), and mean Zn/Cu was 0.608, which was below the 0.7 cut-off of the lowest 2.5% of healthy children. The plasma zinc/serum copper ratio may be a biomarker of heavy metal, particularly mercury, toxicity in children with ASDs."
Source (abstract): The plasma zinc/serum copper ratio as a biomarker in children with autism spectrum disorders, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23823984

"Increasing hair Hg concentrations significantly correlated with increased ASD severity. In contrast, no significant correlations were observed between any other of the hair toxic metals examined and ASD severity. This study helps to provide additional mechanistic support for Hg in the etiology of ASD severity, and is supported by an increasing number of recent critical reviews that provide biological plausibility for the role of Hg [Hg=mercury] exposure in the pathogenesis of ASDs."
Hair toxic metal concentrations and autism spectrum disorder severity in young children." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23222182

"The significant elevation in the concentration of Cu [copper], Pb [lead], and Hg [mercury] and significant decrease in the concentration of Mg [magnesium] and Se [selenium] observed in the hair and nail samples of autistic subjects could be well correlated with their degrees of severity.
Level of trace elements (copper, zinc, magnesium and selenium) and toxic elements (lead and mercury) in the hair and nail of children with autism. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20625937

If you don't want to have to read all of that:

Basically, there *is* quite a bit of evidence that some (though not all) ASD children do indeed have more trouble eliminating certain toxic elements, which means they can accumulate them where the "average" person would be able to just excrete them without a problem. The "why" and "how" is complicated and likely multiple factors all contribute, but the science is there that higher levels of certain metals and lower levels of certain minerals do indeed correlate with ASD. That's an observable scientific fact, whether the cause is heredity, genetics, epigenetics, exposure to chemicals, toxins, infections, vaccines, food/soil contamination, poor diet, air/water pollution, or any/all of the above.

I think it's only prudent to test for levels of various elements (good and bad) any time you have a mental or neurological illness (whether it's autism or depression or ADHD, or really any illness that otherwise has "no explanation") or have obvious signs of deficiency, because sometimes the simplest, and in the case of things like zinc, cheapest things can turn out to be really helpful.

And no one is getting rich off this, I promise you: my zinc gluconate, for example, costs about $4 a month. Even AFTER doubling my previous dosage recently (I figured out I actually was only taking about half the RDA before, which was not enough!)

Another supplement I feel worth mentioning is NAC, or N-Acetyl cysteine. I take 600mg/day, costs me about $8 a month. It's the precursor glutathione, a major antioxidant compound in the body. This increases glutathione levels, which among other things assists the liver and kidneys in removing toxins and free radicals. Has many proven medical benefits including for acetaminophen overdose, COPD and more:

http://examine.com/supplements/n-acetylcysteine/

Keep in mind though, I still take adderall to focus. I'm not planning to stop any time soon either. You can combine traditional ADHD meds with mineral supplementation to good ends. In fact, in case of long-term use (most of us), it's probably a really good idea to do so, given that stimulants are also diuretics, and by nature when you pee more you also risk excreting your stores of good minerals more quickly.

I'm very much pro-med for ADHD (and anxiety, and any problem they reasonably help someone with), as evidenced by the fact I take them myself. But I am also pro nutritional support where it's indicated, and sadly in our western world with our poor diets and heaps of stress and this veritable chemical soup we swim in every day... it very often seems to be.

HOWEVER, on the subject of chelation therapy specifically: it's a tricky subject because yes, this approach CAN indeed be dangerous. Absolutely do NOT do this without the help of a knowledgable MD and careful monitoring!! It's also probably not indicated, except in the most severe of cases or for recent acute poisonings. Then benefits might be greater than risks. But real harm can be done by doing it carelessly, so be VERY careful.

Simply testing metal levels to gather information, however, doesn't hurt anything, and may reveal some possible new treatment pathways.

There are also lots of other ways to help your body to detoxify itself, in a much slower and gentler way. Things as simple as certain foods, like parsley, cilantro and turmeric help your system to clear heavy metals, for example. Or epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) baths. NOT in a huge amount of anything all at once, or an extract or a supplement, but as the whole plant/mineral, in small amounts frequently, over an extended period of time is where you'd get the most benefit here. (I'd look up More Science on this topic, but I'm out of time/energy... feel free to look it up yourself, or I'll come back and add more about this later)

There are other forms of chelating that are much less drastic, too, and also much less dangerous... taking clay and such orally, but I haven't tried nor do I know much about this, so can't speak for its effectiveness... but not everyone knows how to tell the difference between these and the more risky chelation protocols, and yes, there ARE bad, greedy doctors out there adertising "natural" methods that can potentially doing more harm than good by over-treating the problem, whilst also getting rich off of desperate parents...

...but seriously, the same thing is true in the traditional western medical world! There are bad, greedy MDs who over-charge and over-treat with traditional drugs who can also do more harm than good. I know I have seen a few myself. Bad doctors exist everywhere, across all specialties, which is a sad fact of life. Good doctors who specialize in these things also exist, however. It's not all simply "quackery" as some here are asserting. Some of it really is based on cutting-edge science, even if you don't hear about it in the media (yet?). If you don't believe me: please, do go and research the science yourself! Don't just take my or anybody's word for it.

All that said, shane, I am very happy that something (or things) has worked so well for your son! Wish all of us could be so lucky... :D I unfortunately have what I think are additional causes of my ADHD - including likely neurological damage (from scarlet fever at age 5) - so a total cure is probably not attainable for me. But I know I feel better than I have in 20 years (I'm 33) with a combo of adderall and a few key supplements, so I'll happily take what improvements I can get!

hmmm...well said! After finding some more on the mthfr I finally have it figured out of the doctors approach....she is not targeting adhd specifically but she is treating the whole body! She asked a lot of questions and wow it's coming together now. The deal with the mthfr even though doctors do not have it all figured out what does it hurt just to ere on safe side and give some b 12 and folate and see if it helps the over all picture. I don't want anyone to think my son is magically cured because he is not he is just come so far from where we were. I now have to teach him good study habits because the supplement don't put the knowledge in your head and now that is system is doing better he could possibly take a stimulant and not have such bad side effects. I am not going to rush into that until I give him more time and his next visit in January. There is still so much to cover with some of the treatments.....we have covered the mthfr, chelation, supplements, now on to the coin stacked red blood cells. I have a video of my son's blood under a microscope if some one knows how I can post it feel free to private message me.

sarahsweets
09-28-15, 03:17 PM
That's an observable scientific fact, whether the cause is heredity, genetics, epigenetics, exposure to chemicals, toxins, infections, vaccines, food/soil contamination, poor diet, air/water pollution, or any/all of the above.
The fact that you mentioned vaccines is a little disturbing since the science behind that myth has been proven over and over again.

I think it's only prudent to test for levels of various elements (good and bad) any time you have a mental or neurological illness (whether it's autism or depression or ADHD, or really any illness that otherwise has "no explanation")
I would say the evidence behind chemical imbalances in the brain involving dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine and things like depression and bipolar trumps testing for "various elements".

And no one is getting rich off this, I promise you: my zinc gluconate, for example, costs about $4 a month. Even AFTER doubling my previous dosage recently (I figured out I actually was only taking about half the RDA before, which was not enough!)
Well, yes people are getting rich off of this. You may not think so but they are. Maybe its not the supplement companies but all the doctors, naturalpaths,labs,etc, they are making out nicely.




HOWEVER, on the subject of chelation therapy specifically: it's a tricky subject because yes, this approach CAN indeed be dangerous. Absolutely do NOT do this without the help of a knowledgable MD and careful monitoring!!
And which medical board or agency trains these knowledgable chelation experts? How does one get licensed to do this? I think that because its not approved or recommended, there is nobody or agency that can safely certify someone to do this.

Simply testing metal levels to gather information, however, doesn't hurt anything, and may reveal some possible new treatment pathways.
Such as?



...but seriously, the same thing is true in the traditional western medical world! There are bad, greedy MDs who over-charge and over-treat with traditional drugs who can also do more harm than good.
The difference is, these bad greedy doctors can only push FDA approved, well studied and clinically tried medications.
Some of it really is based on cutting-edge science, even if you don't hear about it in the media (yet?). If you don't believe me: please, do go and research the science yourself!
Everytime someone who pushes a naturalpath treatment that is questionable at best, the first thing to be whipped out is "its the media!" "The government is hiding the true scientific findings about chelation!"
Governments and the media, along with independent scientists and scientific journals are all in cohoots to keep the natural remedies a secret.

Look, anyone who knows me knows I am not against natural stuff. I take a long list of vitamins and minerals due to absorption issues, I find accupuncture helpful, I support as little additives and other sh*t in food as possible, dont like factory farming and prefer organic among other things. What I cant get behind is some fly by night cherry picked science supporting a dangerous,questionable and harmful treatment specifically targeted at vunerable parents and their kids.

dvdnvwls
09-28-15, 03:28 PM
shane_udhf:

Many naturopaths are good people.

Many naturopaths are doing their best.

All naturopaths are bad doctors just because of the business they are in. It doesn't matter if they are doing their best, because their whole field is corrupt and invalid.

Many of them may not know that, because they have been convinced by reading and hearing some of the same things you have read and heard. Many naturopaths are honest people who have simply been fooled by the way someone else has dressed up the flimsy or nonexistent evidence for what they're doing.

shane_udhf
09-28-15, 07:45 PM
shane_udhf:

Many naturopaths are good people.

Many naturopaths are doing their best.

All naturopaths are bad doctors just because of the business they are in. It doesn't matter if they are doing their best, because their whole field is corrupt and invalid.

Many of them may not know that, because they have been convinced by reading and hearing some of the same things you have read and heard. Many naturopaths are honest people who have simply been fooled by the way someone else has dressed up the flimsy or nonexistent evidence for what they're doing.

I have no doubt in my son's doctor.......this medicine has existed before western medicine and she is a certified medical doctor who graduated from LSU medical school. She integrates her medicine which is combination of both eastern and western. But anyway we all have our opinion and yours just does not count for much! How ever there is good doctors and bad doctors in both fields......if I had heart problems or something of a serious matter then I would not go to a naturopath personally. I do feel that a nature path can aid in having a healthy life. They are not meant to be your exclusive doctor and that may be the sign of a fruit loop if that person tries to be your only doctor. I have chosen an integrative doctor who knows what the limits are to using natural therapies. Like someone said earlier you have to be careful picking any doctor. That's what's great about this country I can pick whom I choose and spend my money like I see fit. Furthermore I have one happy little boy at home right now that is just tickled to death about not having to sit at the table all evening every day and no side effects so if you were to ask him he would tell you with a smile that he is happy with his doctor.

shane_udhf
09-28-15, 08:58 PM
The fact that you mentioned vaccines is a little disturbing since the science behind that myth has been proven over and over again.

I am not much of a conspiracy person but it is funny how they took the mercury out of vaccines if it they were proven 100% safe and that's because they were not proven 100% safe but generally speaking they are for the masses. I am not saying vaccines cause adhd or autism.....however if a person's body doesn't handle toxins very good then it would be reasonable to think that if they were hit with an amount that exceeds what they can rid through excretion then I would expect issues. A healthy person can get lead or mercury poisoning when they get more than they can handle. Science has established thresholds for the general masses but I will not say that will apply for each individual. The science question I have for everyone can a person retain metals? I would again say yes due to the fact that excretion is a bodily function and if it breaks or is not efficient things begin to accumulate. kinda like the pancreas if it starts malfunctioning then you end up on insulin or [B]Some people can control it with what they eat......imagine that.


I would say the evidence behind chemical imbalances in the brain involving dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine and things like depression and bipolar trumps testing for "various elements".

I would not say that because something is causing the issue and if I remember correctly manic depression is treated with lithium which is a metal. Metals go both ways you have good and bad and you have some good that can be bad.


Well, yes people are getting rich off of this. You may not think so but they are. Maybe its not the supplement companies but all the doctors, naturalpaths,labs,etc, they are making out nicely.





And which medical board or agency trains these knowledgable chelation experts? How does one get licensed to do this? I think that because its not approved or recommended, there is nobody or agency that can safely certify someone to do this.

well like I said there is several ways to chelate.....Epson salt baths is a way, sauna's is another, certain natural occurring herbs. people do it to themselves all the time they just don't realize it till they have done to many cleanses. I would be curious about some of the diet stuff that's on the market.

Such as?




The difference is, these bad greedy doctors can only push FDA approved, well studied and clinically tried medications.

Everytime someone who pushes a naturalpath treatment that is questionable at best, the first thing to be whipped out is "its the media!" "The government is hiding the true scientific findings about chelation!"
Governments and the media, along with independent scientists and scientific journals are all in cohoots to keep the natural remedies a secret.

there is nothing to hide with chelation......it pulls stuff out of your body! plain and simple.......but you better know what you are pulling out especially if you are using the aggressive forms of chelation.

Look, anyone who knows me knows I am not against natural stuff. I take a long list of vitamins and minerals due to absorption issues, I find accupuncture helpful, I support as little additives and other sh*t in food as possible, dont like factory farming and prefer organic among other things. What I cant get behind is some fly by night cherry picked science supporting a dangerous,questionable and harmful treatment specifically targeted at vunerable parents and their kids.

its not the science targeting the parents and kids.....it's the doctor
just like a gun....its the person aiming and pulling the trigger.....the gun does not know what it is being used for or who is using it or on whom.

sarahsweets
09-29-15, 04:20 AM
its not the science targeting the parents and kids.....it's the doctor
just like a gun....its the person aiming and pulling the trigger.....the gun does not know what it is being used for or who is using it or on whom.

I am not sure what you mean by this.

Luvmybully
09-29-15, 11:03 AM
After finding some more on the mthfr I finally have it figured out of the doctors approach....she is not targeting adhd specifically but she is treating the whole body! She asked a lot of questions and wow it's coming together now.

I am still not quite understanding WHY the need for chelation if your son's test results showed no elevated metal levels?

I fully get the value of treating the whole body, makes perfect sense to me. However, giving treatment for something that is not a problem, ESPECIALLY when that treatment is well known to be dangerous, does not seem responsible.

Chelation is not new. It has been around for a VERY long time, and it has never been proven to provide any real benefits, outside of cases of metal poisonings. The harm far outweighs the benefits, for those that do not have metal poisoning.

The dangers are the depletion of necessary minerals, are your son's levels of these necessary minerals being monitored? Kidney function monitored? Liver function?

This has nothing to do with alternate paths, this is about a well known, well documented, unsafe treatment.

shane_udhf
09-29-15, 10:41 PM
I am still not quite understanding WHY the need for chelation if your son's test results showed no elevated metal levels?

I fully get the value of treating the whole body, makes perfect sense to me. However, giving treatment for something that is not a problem, ESPECIALLY when that treatment is well known to be dangerous, does not seem responsible.

Chelation is not new. It has been around for a VERY long time, and it has never been proven to provide any real benefits, outside of cases of metal poisonings. The harm far outweighs the benefits, for those that do not have metal poisoning.

The dangers are the depletion of necessary minerals, are your son's levels of these necessary minerals being monitored? Kidney function monitored? Liver function?

This has nothing to do with alternate paths, this is about a well known, well documented, unsafe treatment.

yes he is being monitored......and the supplements that he is on replaces necessary stuff. He is not on any type of aggressive chelation. It is the chelation challenges that causes all severe problems. What he is taking is really to more less boost the body's natural process. it is just like the cleanses that people do (over the counter stuff)..........

hear me out here......this has to do with the challenge now......if you take and give someone a chelation challenge and when you test their urine and it contains exceedingly high levels which are outside the normal limits, that person has a problem with metals.

now here is the thing with folks taking advantage of people....it is how they present the test and go about administering it.

if say a doctor was to do a provoked test without doing a unprovoked first and the results come back maybe just outside the acceptable range and that doctor tells the person that they have a metal problem then that person is not really being truthful. to have an accurate test you must do a unprovoked test to be able to have something to judge it by. Now if the provoked were to be exceedingly high then it is logical to assume that the person has a problem with metals. Doctors and labs have gotten sued over they way the test and present the information to the patient.

ADaptHD
09-30-15, 12:00 AM
Speaking of interesting articles, I just happened across a relevant Washington Post article from a couple weeks ago: Why you shouldn't know too much about your own genes (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/09/11/the-powerful-argument-for-not-learning-too-much-about-your-genes/).

Some excerpts:


The poster child for the uncertainty underlying much of the information in this brave new world is a gene called MTHFR (http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/MTHFR). It produces an important enzyme, but many medical geneticists simply sigh when they hear the gene's clumsy acronym name.


This gene has made its way on to the do-not-test list more (https://www.acmg.net/docs/MTHFR_gim2012165a_Feb2013.pdf) than (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23963422) once (http://www.choosingwisely.org/societies/society-for-maternal-fetal-medicine/), because in almost no cases do the tests have any medical utility. Meanwhile, alternative medicine practitioners and Web sites have stepped up their claims that many people -- perhaps anyone with a family history of any disease at all -- should have the gene tested, because the information will help make them healthier.


There's a natural human impulse to search for explanations for health problems, and the genome provides a powerful way to deepen that search. But in addition to the genuine promise that the genome brings, it also creates a niche where science can be exploited and vulnerable people seeking answers misled.




Half a dozen medical specialists contacted for this story said MTHFR testing doesn't reveal actionable information and that while there may be occasional rare exceptions, it should not be done.



“It's very easy to say it's associated with everything. There are lots of small studies associated with psychiatric disorders, with depression, with not feeling good. … Obviously, it's miserable not to feel good, so they’re trying to hang their hat on something,” said Charis Eng, chair of the Genomic Medicine Institute at the Cleveland Clinic.




Full article is definitely worth a read for people interested in this kind of thing.

Luvmybully
09-30-15, 11:15 AM
yes he is being monitored......and the supplements that he is on replaces necessary stuff. He is not on any type of aggressive chelation. It is the chelation challenges that causes all severe problems. What he is taking is really to more less boost the body's natural process. it is just like the cleanses that people do (over the counter stuff)..........

hear me out here......this has to do with the challenge now......if you take and give someone a chelation challenge and when you test their urine and it contains exceedingly high levels which are outside the normal limits, that person has a problem with metals.

now here is the thing with folks taking advantage of people....it is how they present the test and go about administering it.

if say a doctor was to do a provoked test without doing a unprovoked first and the results come back maybe just outside the acceptable range and that doctor tells the person that they have a metal problem then that person is not really being truthful. to have an accurate test you must do a unprovoked test to be able to have something to judge it by. Now if the provoked were to be exceedingly high then it is logical to assume that the person has a problem with metals. Doctors and labs have gotten sued over they way the test and present the information to the patient.

But that still does not answer the question: WHY chelation if no elevated levels of metals are present? EXPECIALLY when, no matter how non-aggressive the chelation is, it STILL removes what is necessary?

You are removing what does not need to be removed, then artificially adding it back. Why remove it in the first place?

shane_udhf
10-01-15, 12:19 AM
Speaking of interesting articles, I just happened across a relevant Washington Post article from a couple weeks ago: Why you shouldn't know too much about your own genes (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/09/11/the-powerful-argument-for-not-learning-too-much-about-your-genes/).

Some excerpts:












Full article is definitely worth a read for people interested in this kind of thing.

Here is my answer that I got in an email that I sent to a doctor at the mayo clinic.

The MTHFR gene mutation is only performed if the patient homocysteine level is elevated. Even then, given that about 30 to 50% of the white and Hispanic population will have this mutation, its role in causing any sort of disease is questioned.

i wonder do they check homocysteine in a 14 year old and how long does it take to reach an elevated level?

sarahsweets
10-04-15, 07:24 AM
The thing is, you present NO evidence beyond antecdotal and other generic doctors that you say are experts. Thats like me saying Dr Phil is an expert in psychology just because he helped me.

shane_udhf
10-04-15, 09:16 AM
The thing is, you present NO evidence beyond antecdotal and other generic doctors that you say are experts. Thats like me saying Dr Phil is an expert in psychology just because he helped me.

Well I thought the research department of the mayo clinic would be pretty creditable.....all those case studies you all have posted and what not.......

Luvmybully
10-04-15, 03:28 PM
Well I thought the research department of the mayo clinic would be pretty creditable.....all those case studies you all have posted and what not.......

but the Mayo clinic's response you posted pretty much sums up what has been said by all those other references posted: there really is no known benefit to identifying this gene, because it's role in causing any kind of disease has not been identified.

dvdnvwls
10-04-15, 03:35 PM
The fact that someone at the Mayo Clinic answered you, does not mean it was the answer you wanted. Read more carefully.