View Full Version : Cheese is addictive as drugs


SB_UK
10-23-15, 07:21 AM
Cheese is addictive as drugs



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11949643/Cheese-is-addictive-as-drugs-study-finds.html



caseomorphin --------------- narcotic
casein (high glutamate) ------ stimulant

narcotic/stimulant - wikiP/speedball(drug) <- HIGHLY addictive.

-*-

glutamate - very water soluble

Tyr-Pro-Phe - all insoluble ? (http://www.proteinstructures.com/Structure/Structure/amino-acids.html)

-*-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10908049

antihypertensive - casein
+
fast mobilized (stimulant) - whey

-*-

SB_UK
10-23-15, 07:52 AM
osmolarity
urea
salt
glucose

water drawn into (and other) cells

Intracellular environment

vs

oncotic pressure
serum albumen (in milk)

Extracellular environment

Comparison of intracellular vs Extracellular compartment ionic concs is lesson 1 physiology in medicine.

water drawn into (and other) vessels

Looks as though loss of protein (milk), carbs - balance with increased salt intake as healthy in aerobic exercise to maintain hydration.

Otherwise loss of potassium, magnesium - constant cramp.

? back pain -> cramp eg piriformis syndrome.

GABA agonism - ketosis - muscle relaxant.

-*-

Suggesting that supporting water flow is essential for health - and that salt intake assists this procedure as protein, milk and carb intake is slashed as we enter ketosis through diet/lifestyle/exercise.

SB_UK
10-23-15, 08:02 AM
food/drink/exercise - > | albumen | -> <- [cell [subcellular compartments]]

Aerobic respiration conditional on stable ionic concentrations

Ketosis - low protein,carb intake.

Maintain hydration with increased salt intake.

Support continued mitochondrial functioning

-*-

Carb
Protein
Hard to source

Salt
Easy to source

Salt in water - turn water into a conductor - the obvious choice if we're becoming more electrically dependent organisms.

What does that mean ?
We really need to go solar powered.

Melanin (observed from the start in evolution of the simplest in 'animal' life) electrical transfer via tubulin (remarkably evolutionarily conserved) into the mitochondrial electron transport chain via a Na+ compartmentalized ExtraCellular to IntraCellular gradient.

SB_UK
10-23-15, 08:27 AM
Water.

We know water is the essential catalyst for life ie some of our deserts without water are completely sterile.

We know that water is a product of aerobic respiration - just a byproduct which (ie water) is never really considered.

Optimised water production would occur in aerobic respiration.

In the zome realates to a tempo which can maintain itself indefinitely in aerobic respiration.

Distress can be re-defined as altering physiological parameters away from optimal aerobic respiration / water production.

Water + salt permits electrical flow.

We're bathed in electromagnetic radiation.

Electromagnetic radiation evolves to particle.

Material world particles require material world particles (food) to survive.

Food is simply energy.

Energy should be attainable directly from source (sun).

All that we need is a pigment and an electrical wire.

All that we need is the solar panel, a wire connected to it and distributed mains - which melanin and tubulin should be able to deliver.

Powering compartments based on Na+ ionic concentration in the body.

-*-

Electrical beings.

That'd be elegant.

But what human beings want - is to be happy.

And shifting human beings off the materialistic / food / primitive reward strategy - would do just that.

We're not happy because of our reward system - transcending the reward system would by default remove the unhappiness block - rendering us 'happy'.

It's silly to be unhappy in a world to man of finite lifespan.

SB_UK
10-23-15, 08:57 AM
Leaving the garden.

Apple.

Fructose.

The 'sweetest' sugar.

Insulin/IGF-1 - growth.

We need to leave to return again.

Growth of what ?

A mind.

Enforced moral consistency - the new (soon) species norm.

An enforcedly social species.

Little Missy
10-23-15, 09:27 AM
I sure am glad I gave up cheese.

namazu
10-23-15, 03:38 PM
I find cheese pretty tempting, personally, and it may indeed have addictive or drug-mimicking properties.

But I read the study (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0117959) on which this and several similar "cheese is addictive" articles claim to be based, and a) found it wanting, and b) found that it didn't actually say all that much about cheese, let alone examine its addictive properties in detail! (This also suggests the newspaper articles weren't written by people with much training in reading/interpreting scientific journal articles.)

Also, the actual study classified cheese as an "unprocessed" food, not as a processed food. :scratch: Bacon, too. (Never mind that most cheese contains salt, bacon is often cured/smoked/etc.)

This ranking is based on participants' rating scales of how addictive foods were (Likert scale, 1-7, "1 = not problematic at all, 7 = extremely problematic"):
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=medium&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0117959.t003 (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0117959#pone-0117959-t003)

The study also claimed to be "the first" to investigate why certain foods are addictive. It was published in February 2015. Bogus claim.

Anyway...cheese may be addictive, but the study that (oddly just now) spawned all of these articles doesn't prove it, nor anything about why it may be.

(Interestingly -- at least to me! -- I've found that my own food cravings have changed over time. When I was a kid, I used to have quite a sweet tooth, but now I can't even eat milk chocolate. Give me that 70% cocoa, and that's another story! I would be curious, given that they interviewed mostly college students and people of similar age range, whether people of different ages would endorse the same items.)

mildadhd
10-23-15, 11:25 PM
I find cheese really addictive.

I am not joking, I have been trying to quit for years.

And still haven't been able to quit.

How many people here can quit cheese?


P

mildadhd
10-23-15, 11:38 PM
717 calories per 100 grams of butter.

588 calories per 100 grams of peanut butter.

541 calories per 100 grams of bacon.

402 calories per 100 grams of cheddar cheese.

280 calories per 100 grams of mozzarella cheese.

387 calories per 100 grams of sugar.

312 calories per 100 grams of french fries

77 calories per 100 grams of potatoe

52 calories per 100 grams of apple

46 calories per 100 grams of apple juice.

42 calories per 100 grams of 1% milk.




P

mildadhd
10-24-15, 12:36 AM
Would cheese or drugs be addictive without pain/distress?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypsJrRwlspo


P

Abi
10-24-15, 12:44 AM
I don't know about cheese but the most physiologically addictive drugs such as heroin, nicotine, crack, methamphetamine, etc. would remain addictive regardless of distress.

dvdnvwls
10-24-15, 01:12 AM
717 calories per 100 grams of butter.

588 calories per 100 grams of peanut butter.

541 calories per 100 grams of bacon.

402 calories per 100 grams of cheddar cheese.

280 calories per 100 grams of mozzarella cheese.

387 calories per 100 grams of sugar.

312 calories per 100 grams of french fries

77 calories per 100 grams of potatoe

52 calories per 100 grams of apple

46 calories per 100 grams of apple juice.

42 calories per 100 grams of 1% milk.

Note though that hardly anybody would choose to eat 100 grams of butter at once, while 100 grams of bacon is much less unlikely.


Has anyone studied whether "food in general" is addictive? :)

mildadhd
10-24-15, 01:13 AM
Obesity in Canada is a growing health concern, which is "expected to surpass smoking as the leading cause of preventable morbidity and mortality and represents a burden of Can$3.96 (US$4.16/2.85) billion on the Canadian economy each year."[1]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Canada

dvdnvwls
10-24-15, 01:25 AM
Of course there are obese people... that doesn't say anything about whether food is addictive, only that people are eating it.

My question was facetious, at least to some extent, and was also meant to point to an apparent flaw in the reasoning of the OP.

mildadhd
10-24-15, 01:28 AM
I am about 40-60 pounds over weight or obese, and struggling with food addiction.


Obesity has continued to grow within the United States.

Two out of every three Americans are considered to be overweight or obese.

During the early 21st century, America often contained the highest percentage of obese people in the world.

Obesity has led to over 120,000 preventable deaths each year in the United States.

An obese person in America is likely to incur $1,429 more in medical expenses annually.

Approximately $147 billion is spent in added medical expenses per year within the United States.[4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States




P

mildadhd
10-24-15, 02:03 AM
It's fascinating that many of us are killing our pain and distress with cheese, etc, just like many other people suffering from addiction, but for some unknown reason are not making the same connections.

But then again that is part of addiction is it not?

Side note: not everyone who tries cheese, etc, becomes addicted, so there must also be other factors involved aswell.



P

mildadhd
10-24-15, 02:19 AM
With SB_UK's advice I have been working hard to avoid cheese and sugar, and my arthritis is much better.

And when I have relapse, my arthritis gets worse again, every time.

Avoiding sugar has been much harder than I ever thought, as well as cheese.

I still haven't been able to achieve what I would call sobriety yet.

(Even as I can feel my related health get worse)




P

SB_UK
10-24-15, 03:33 AM
Yes - as we've been shaping -

- parmesan with its high glutamate content triggers massive levels of pain.

-*-

what's definitely safe ?
kim chi (high salt content), CP oils, zero GI veggies, olives definitely.
so salt appears to be ik.

- maybe fish, eggs OK - don't know - maybe not.

Mayo (I think non CP oil) provides a problem.
CP mayo - appears to be better (joints flush cold on it).

Complications with cream - despite no real casein - can't breathe - excess mucous production.

-*-

Ketosis without help from cream + eggs is tough - finding that it's best conducted by food restriction to the point that any food is welcome.

SB_UK
10-24-15, 03:57 AM
I find cheese pretty tempting, personally, and it may indeed have addictive or drug-mimicking properties.

But I read the study (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0117959) on which this and several similar "cheese is addictive" articles claim to be based, and a) found it wanting, and b) found that it didn't actually say all that much about cheese, let alone examine its addictive properties in detail! (This also suggests the newspaper articles weren't written by people with much training in reading/interpreting scientific journal articles.)

Also, the actual study classified cheese as an "unprocessed" food, not as a processed food. :scratch: Bacon, too. (Never mind that most cheese contains salt, bacon is often cured/smoked/etc.)

This ranking is based on participants' rating scales of how addictive foods were (Likert scale, 1-7, "1 = not problematic at all, 7 = extremely problematic"):
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=medium&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0117959.t003 (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0117959#pone-0117959-t003)

The study also claimed to be "the first" to investigate why certain foods are addictive. It was published in February 2015. Bogus claim.

Anyway...cheese may be addictive, but the study that (oddly just now) spawned all of these articles doesn't prove it, nor anything about why it may be.

(Interestingly -- at least to me! -- I've found that my own food cravings have changed over time. When I was a kid, I used to have quite a sweet tooth, but now I can't even eat milk chocolate. Give me that 70% cocoa, and that's another story! I would be curious, given that they interviewed mostly college students and people of similar age range, whether people of different ages would endorse the same items.)


Fair points - about 10 years ago I seem to remember mentioning that if I had to give up all foods - wouldn't mind unless I kept a cheese sandwich.

Which is pretty much a pizza I guess.

Have since given up bread - but cheese lingers.

Is it addictive ?

Based on the exaggerated glutamate content in parmesan and the immediate reactive excitotoxin based excruciating pain I experience on it -

and the classical effect of excitotoxin (I've seen a dog go mad for some soup I gave her which I later found had MSG in) -
the effects of excitotoxin on toxicity and 'liking' - I'd say yes.

Pretty sure we could repeat a rat park experiment with cheese vs veggie cheese (the price !!!) and see what happens.

Mind you - I think that soya has excitotoxic effects ... ...
http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/review-excitotoxins-taste-kills

-*-

What is safe to eat ?
CP MUFA oils + zero GI veggies - definitely.

SB_UK
10-24-15, 04:01 AM
Of course - umami = glutatmate = 'meaty'

and yesterdays #2 science story across all UK newspapers:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/who-to-declare-that-bacon-and-other-processed-meat-cause-cancer-claims-report-a6705176.html

SB_UK
10-24-15, 04:04 AM
So ... ... drawn to high oleic CP rapeseed oil, all salad, all green veggies, kim chi - representing for the most part - the raw vegan diet.

Maybe low levels of [oily] fish/eggs not sure - don't appear to cause pain I think.

Coconut water (electrolytes) - good

High cocoa chocolate +/- stevia (namazu) - good

shirataki noodles - ok

sat fat (butter seems?? ok) - not sure - often contaminated with msg + casein + umami

-*-

Is all food addictive ?

To be addictive must mean that we're driven to eat increasingly more with adverse outcomes.

Nothing addictive in organic CP oils / veggies and salad - I should know - as should we all here - with addictive personalities -

Explain ?
Addictiv epersonality = sensitivity to distress -> reactive stress relief -> addiction seeking properties.

ie ADDers are best placed (parrot down a cola mine) to identify what is and what is not addictive.

Fine example.

You can't say that use of computer is addictive- it's how one uses it.

Sigman is concerned less with a child’s ICT or Computer Science study or use of computers for homework, but more with their screen time in non-educational environments in front of entertainment screen media such as television, the internet and computer games. He has some strong recommendations for reducing children's screen time, from toddlers to teenagers – and adults, too.
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/feature/digital-home/how-much-screen-time-is-healthy-for-children-benefits-3520917/


-*-

Point being.

D -> all food is addictive
Parents -> all computer time is addictive

Incorrect.

Addiction - increasing consumption leading to adverse outcome.

There's nothing addictive in CP oils + low GI veggies or in using the Internet to learn.
In fact both assist us in overcoming addictive propensity ie 'completion of mind' -> closes the developmental trajectory which the reward growth system (Ins/IGF-1) remains open to support.

SB_UK
10-24-15, 04:16 AM
parrot down a cola mine :-) !!

Until 1903, the world-famous soft drink contained a significant dose of cocaine.The drive for self-medication would literally have placed ADDers in 1900 as workers (digging ourselves deep graves) in a cola mine.

SB_UK
10-24-15, 04:18 AM
Strange thing about cheese -

also triggers 'clicking' in joints - also.

Previously like Peripheral - just pain - now very painful clicking also.

Why is veggie cheese so expensive ?

UKP 25 per kg.

SB_UK
10-24-15, 04:28 AM
Yes - that diet - is pretty much the exact same as the diet of Mount Athos.

Frequent fasting, little eating, heavily low GI veggies, CP MUFA oils, salad and occasional fish intake.

That's interestign - we've settle don the Mount Athos diet.

Considered healthiest place on Earth.

Q - how do they do it ?

Simple - distress alleviation through no co-ercion in money/power ie no money exists, no hierarchy exists - nobody makes anybody do anything

-> no distress (see rat park) ->

no drug seeking food tendencies -> no disease.

-*-

Very simply - nothing need be banned - we simply need to live in a morally compatible manner - and all downstream problems will automatically correct.

Debt of gratitude to the perfect epidemiological dataset on Mount Athos - for offering us our only glimpse of a group of people who neither suffer from Western style excess, Eastern style poverty - and through the middle ground

- attain close to perfect health.

Yes - they die - but the goal is simply to die without suffering from protracted illness prior.

http://globalphilosophy.blogspot.co.uk/2008/03/half-vegan-monks-who-are-worlds.html

Despite their average venerable age, the 2,000 monks living in 20 ancient monasteries have virtually no heart disease, no cardiac arrests and no strokes, a zero-incidence of Alzheimer’s disease which astonished the researchers conducting the various studies, and unusually low rates of cancer, which in the case of prostate cancer is 4 times lower than the international average. The latter finding is even more remarkable when you know that the monks in that particular investigation were aged between 50 and 104. Their rates of lung, bowel and bladder cancer are zero.What does an ageing population really need to discover ?
How to age gracefully.

What are we observing ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageing_of_Europe

Over the last 500 years Europe has shaped the planet (from a teacher of history).

And Europe (estimate of 4% of global popn by end of century) is very much in decline.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11949038/Europes-glory-days-at-an-end-warns-Juncker.html
'Europe in decline'

With an ageing population, Europe’s share of the world’s population has fallen from 20 per cent a century ago to seven per cent now, and could be just four per cent by the end of this century when the world reaches ten billion people. “We are demographically weakened, and will remain so,” added Mr Juncker, the former Prime Minister of Luxembourg.

SB_UK
10-24-15, 04:40 AM
Summarising

Growth trajectory (demographic change) in man -> ageing population <- integral of man ie species
Growth trajectory (mind) in individual towards wisdom <- individual man

Human beings need to learn to age gracefully.

Instead human beings appear to try and re-live their 'growth' phase - incapable of seeing that the reward scheme which is active withn growth phase - is required to be transcended - for that 'freedom' which human beings seek - to be realised.

ie we live in a society which helps people into a reward system (growth) and which does not support people in transcending that reward system and {{{being happy}}}.

Clonal expansion (virus) to Quality (being individual) reward system transition; note tendency in current society of people to join groups and to define themselves as 'individual' through group conformity. Most obvious in the young - where individuality is defined as conforming to the stereotype of a non-conformist.