View Full Version : which form of Ritalin is IR?


baical
10-23-15, 07:46 AM
I would guess it is Ritalin that is IR, so is Concerta considered XR or what? What about these methylphenidate and methylin? So if I talk to my doctor about Ritalin since it was mentioned to me before and if opting for quick release/short acting so I don't stay up too long on it, should the prescription be "Ritalin" and not "Concerta"? Etc.

Several "myths" out there I want to be clear with; some people say Ritalin is harsh than Adderall (since Ritalin was assumed "cocaine-like"). Also mentioned was amphetamine "mimicks" dopamine, Ritalin just releases a ton of it. True? Lastly, is Ritalin the better option for an ADHD stimulant yet non-amphetamine drug? It seems as if it's in a league of its own, even from just reading the info. regarding it on wikipedia.

Fuzzy12
10-23-15, 08:20 AM
I would guess it is Ritalin that is IR, so is Concerta considered XR or what? What about these methylphenidate and methylin? So if I talk to my doctor about Ritalin since it was mentioned to me before and if opting for quick release/short acting so I don't stay up too long on it, should the prescription be "Ritalin" and not "Concerta"? Etc.

Several "myths" out there I want to be clear with; some people say Ritalin is harsh than Adderall (since Ritalin was assumed "cocaine-like"). Also mentioned was amphetamine "mimicks" dopamine, Ritalin just releases a ton of it. True? Lastly, is Ritalin the better option for an ADHD stimulant yet non-amphetamine drug? It seems as if it's in a league of its own, even from just reading the info. regarding it on wikipedia.

Methylphenidate is the generic name of the medication and can be both IR or XR. Ritalin and Concerta are brand names. Ritalin is instant release and concerta extended. I'm not sure about Methylin. I think it's just another brand name for methyl phenidate and can be both IR and XR but I'm not sure.

sarahsweets
10-23-15, 10:11 AM
I would guess it is Ritalin that is IR, so is Concerta considered XR or what? What about these methylphenidate and methylin? So if I talk to my doctor about Ritalin since it was mentioned to me before and if opting for quick release/short acting so I don't stay up too long on it, should the prescription be "Ritalin" and not "Concerta"? Etc.
Concerta is a long acting form of methlyphenidate, that uses an osmotic pump sort of mechanism of action. Other long acting forms of methlyphenidate"
Metadate ER, focalin xr, daytrana,concerta. They also have an IR version of focalin and maybe metadate? Ritalin is just ritalin or methlyphenidate. There is also Ritalin LA which is also long acting.

namazu
10-23-15, 04:26 PM
To expand on Fuzzy12's info and Sarah's list, here are the currently-FDA-approved versions of methylphenidate and dexmethylphenidate, not including unbranded generics. Some of these (like, I think, Ritalin-SR) aren't marketed/sold much anymore because of competition from generics and newer brand-name drugs, but most are available. I think some "brands" like Methylin (which is made by Mallinckrodt) are actually sold as generics, too, which I find confusing.

Short-acting / instant release:
Ritalin Methylin Focalin

Long-acting / extended-release:
Aptensio XR (approved April 2015) Concerta (osmotic release system in a pill) Daytrana (skin patch) Focalin XR Metadate CD Metadate ER Methylin ER Quillivant XR (liquid) Ritalin LA Ritalin-SR

Re: your other questions -- I don't know all the details, but yes, Ritalin (or any of the other methylphenidate variants in pill form, whether short-acting or long-acting) are considered first-line ADHD treatments along with the amphetamine-based medications (Adderall, Dexedrine, Vyvanse, etc.).

aeon
10-23-15, 05:29 PM
Also mentioned was amphetamine "mimicks" dopamine, Ritalin just releases a ton of it. True?

No, false.

Methylphenidate acts as a dopamine-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor by blocking the dopamine and norepinephrine transporters.

Amphetamine acts as a dopamine-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor by blocking the dopamine and norepinephrine transporters,
and it can also cause dopamine and norepinephrine release by reversing the dopamine and norepinephrine transporters.
Amphetamine also causes direct dopamine and norepinephrine release into the synaptic cleft by activating a transporter within the neuron.

While both amphetamine and methylphenidate are dopaminergic drugs, it should be noted that their methods of action are distinct.
Specifically, methylphenidate is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor while amphetamine is both a releasing agent and reuptake inhibitor
of dopamine and norepinephrine. ~Wikipedia


Cheers,
Ian

dvdnvwls
10-24-15, 01:22 AM
baical...

I think maybe you're not quite on the right track with all this.

You are not a doctor, and frankly you're just not doing a great job of sorting out the information you have so far. I believe it would really really benefit you a great deal if you simply go along with what your doctor recommends and not second-guess them.

baical
10-24-15, 07:56 AM
My doctor also likes to second guess as well...so go figure. I'd rather know what's going on first hand from someone who has experience with these medicines. There's no problem with second guessing rather than having terrible "certainty". Nothing is certain, always ask questions. If things do not work, have a plan B and C. That's all.

Regarding Ritalin IR, since it is instant release I would assume it works "instantly" not like Vyvanse and so therefore it lasts for a short amount of time since it is short acting? If anyone knows how long an IR Ritalin lasts please let me know. I know the XRs lasts as long as every amphetamine available 12-16 hours.

baical...

I think maybe you're not quite on the right track with all this.

You are not a doctor, and frankly you're just not doing a great job of sorting out the information you have so far. I believe it would really really benefit you a great deal if you simply go along with what your doctor recommends and not second-guess them.

baical
10-24-15, 08:06 AM
I see. So if doc prescribed Ritalin or methylphenidate (if generic) it could either be given as either IR or XR? One person has told me Ritalin lasts longer and the "crash" is much worse than the amphetamines. I would assume it's because this "crash" comes after the person has been active all day and by the time the drug's effect fades, such "crash" occurs.

If anyone can compare between Ritalin and an amphetamine, how is Ritalin really like? Is it a good anti depressant? I read that it is. I can't remember what type of drug class it belong in to but it is not an amphetamine.

Isn't the lowest starting dose for adults at 10 mg?

Methylphenidate is the generic name of the medication and can be both IR or XR. Ritalin and Concerta are brand names. Ritalin is instant release and concerta extended. I'm not sure about Methylin. I think it's just another brand name for methyl phenidate and can be both IR and XR but I'm not sure.

baical
10-24-15, 08:16 AM
I'd have to find out what this osmotic pump thing is. I've read of of people's combo of focalin with intuniv for ADHD. Focalin is dexmethyphenidate (sort of like the Dextroamphetamine of Ritalin since Ritalin is "racemic" meaning it has dextro and levo, ala Evekeo. Focalin only has "dextro"). Correct me if I'm wrong anyone.

Concerta is a long acting form of methlyphenidate, that uses an osmotic pump sort of mechanism of action. Other long acting forms of methlyphenidate"
Metadate ER, focalin xr, daytrana,concerta. They also have an IR version of focalin and maybe metadate? Ritalin is just ritalin or methlyphenidate. There is also Ritalin LA which is also long acting.

namazu
10-24-15, 03:50 PM
Regarding Ritalin IR, since it is instant release I would assume it works "instantly" not like Vyvanse and so therefore it lasts for a short amount of time since it is short acting? If anyone knows how long an IR Ritalin lasts please let me know. I know the XRs lasts as long as every amphetamine available 12-16 hours.
Yes, IR methylphenidate lasts for a short period of time. For me, that's about 2 1/2 hrs.; for some others, it may last longer (4-5)...but usually it's pretty short, just like instant-release Adderall or Focalin or Dexedrine.


So if doc prescribed Ritalin or methylphenidate (if generic) it could either be given as either IR or XR?
Default "Ritalin" is IR, unless an ER version is specified. But yes, there are multiple generics available for both instant and extended-release methylphenidate.

One person has told me Ritalin lasts longer and the "crash" is much worse than the amphetamines. I would assume it's because this "crash" comes after the person has been active all day and by the time the drug's effect fades, such "crash" occurs.
See comment on duration of action above. Not longer than amphetamines; "crash" not necessarily any worse (if present at all); totally depends on your body.

If anyone can compare between Ritalin and an amphetamine, how is Ritalin really like? Is it a good anti depressant? I read that it is. I can't remember what type of drug class it belong in to but it is not an amphetamine.
Ritalin's a CNS stimulant of -- per Wikipedia -- "the phenethylamine and piperidine classes". For what it's worth.

I don't find it to be a good antidepressant, specifically, except to the extent that it helps with my ADHD symptoms, which tends to make life less stressful.

Personally, I did not find amphetamine-based medications to be as effective for me overall as methylphenidate-based medications, and I've tried several of them. Focalin didn't work as well for me as Ritalin, either. I know many others who've had the opposite experience (amphetamine worked better for them than methylphenidate), or who find either one effective, or who find stimulants intolerable in general.

Isn't the lowest starting dose for adults at 10 mg?

Novartis actually doesn't list a "starting dose" for adults. Here's what they say in the prescribing information for adults:
"Dosage should be individualized according to the needs and responses of the patient.

Tablets: Administer in divided doses 2 or 3 times daily, preferably 30 to 45 minutes before meals. Average dosage is 20 to 30 mg daily. Some patients may require 40 to 60 mg daily. In others, 10 to 15 mg daily will be adequate. Patients who are unable to sleep if medication is taken late in the day should take the last dose before 6 p.m."

So, for adults for whom 10-15mg daily is adequate, assuming that's given in 2-3 divided doses, that would suggest that for some people, 5mg taken 3x/day may be adequate, while for others, it would likely be 20mg taken 3x/day. Keep in mind that these are suggestions, not requirements.

It's generally good to start with a low dose and increase, as needed with doctor's supervision, from there, rather than jumping in at a higher dose (which risks overshooting the optimal dose and/or greater chance of side effects).

I agree with others who've suggested that instead of trying to optimize your treatment on theoretical grounds or based on other people's experiences with medication -- which simply isn't feasible, given the variation in different individuals' responses to medications -- you work with your doctor to try some first-line treatment, adjust it carefully, see if it works for you, and go from there.

Good luck.

baical
10-26-15, 06:26 AM
Namazu, I appreciate your input. My doc has told me some people like pepsi, some coke, etc. so yeah it may take different types to figure out what's working for me. I had been looking into Ritalin recently and the profile and history is interesting even looking at the wiki page alone. The reason why I'd opt for an IR if given Ritalin is because so that if it's as bad as people are making it out to be, then the short acting form wouldn't last all day if it does turn out to be as bad as it's made out to be. Some people say it's next thing to cocaine (yet people like cocaine), so is that bad exactly? LOL. According to a book I read amphetamines are more damaging (if abused) than cocaine due to it being long acting whereas cocaine is short acting (doesn't last as long). That was the reason why I disregarded looking into Ritalin and settled with amphetamines (because of the cocaine comparison, not so much which was more damaging, since I know the poison is in the dosage).

Fuzzy12
10-26-15, 07:55 AM
I see. So if doc prescribed Ritalin or methylphenidate (if generic) it could either be given as either IR or XR? One person has told me Ritalin lasts longer and the "crash" is much worse than the amphetamines. I would assume it's because this "crash" comes after the person has been active all day and by the time the drug's effect fades, such "crash" occurs.

If anyone can compare between Ritalin and an amphetamine, how is Ritalin really like? Is it a good anti depressant? I read that it is. I can't remember what type of drug class it belong in to but it is not an amphetamine.

Isn't the lowest starting dose for adults at 10 mg?


I only took Methyl phenidate IR for a couple of months before switching to dexamphetamine IR (dex) because I got a rash with Methyl Phenidate. So my comparison might not be very reliable as I didn't really take methyl phenidate (MP) for as long as I took dex.

I did get a crash with MP. I think, officially the "crash" just happens because you are going from a state of having your symptoms controlled to a state where your symptoms are not controlled anymore but I actually think, it's a bit worse than that. I got bad anxiety and felt extremely exhausted and also depressed as my meds were wearing off. It wasn't just that I lost symptom control. It is possible though that working hard on meds and maybe not eating and drinking enough contributes to the crash.

For me, this happened both with MP and dex till i started taking dex more frequently, i.e. with smaller intervals between doses (so effectively redosing before the last dose wears off completely). it was worse with MP but maybe just because I hadn't learnt how to dose it properly (for me).

In general, I did find dex a bit smoother than MP but again that could be just because I dosed it slightly differently and also I took it for much, much longer so maybe my body had enough time to adjust to it.

In terms of depression, again, I think, dex helped hugely with my mood, primarily because I functioned better and was getting things done, but also because it balanced out my mood swings, and hugely improved my ability to regulate my emotions so I didn't get so affected by tiny little issues.

In the UK, the smallest dose per tablet that you can get for both MP and Dex is 5mg (I think). I think, I started both MP and dex with 15mg a day taking 5mg every 4h (in my first week I might have just taken two doses of MP, i.e. 10mg a day).

baical
10-28-15, 04:54 AM
does Ritalin have that confidence booster that Vyvanse was said to have or is that more of an amphetamine thing considering amphetamines are "releasers" of dopamine whereas Ritalin is more "reuptakes"?

Also, I'm a bit confused here; Vyvanse is slow release I know so when one takes Ritalin XR, does that mean it is also slow release or just means it is quick release but "extended"? So a Ritalin IR is quick release but not extended, right?

namazu
10-28-15, 05:36 AM
does Ritalin have that confidence booster that Vyvanse was said to have or is that more of an amphetamine thing considering amphetamines are "releasers" of dopamine whereas Ritalin is more "reuptakes"?
I don't know that any stimulant is more "confidence-boosting" than another. The only real "confidence boost" you should be getting is due to better ADHD symptom control.

Also, I'm a bit confused here; Vyvanse is slow release I know so when one takes Ritalin XR, does that mean it is also slow release or just means it is quick release but "extended"? So a Ritalin IR is quick release but not extended, right?
With Vyvanse, part of the slow release is that the medication has to be cleaved off another molecule in the digestive tract to turn into the active form.

Ritalin IR is all quick release -- as soon as you swallow it, it starts to dissolve quickly and the contents are absorbed in your digestive tract.

Each of the extended-release medications has a slightly different delivery system, which accounts for differences in how quickly they kick in, how they release the medication over time, and how long they ultimately last. Some have an outer shell that dissolves immediately, and inner contents that dissolve slowly. Some have coatings that dissolve at different rates. Some deliver the medication more gradually.

Fuzzy12
10-28-15, 07:28 AM
does Ritalin have that confidence booster that Vyvanse was said to have or is that more of an amphetamine thing considering amphetamines are "releasers" of dopamine whereas Ritalin is more "reuptakes"?

Also, I'm a bit confused here; Vyvanse is slow release I know so when one takes Ritalin XR, does that mean it is also slow release or just means it is quick release but "extended"? So a Ritalin IR is quick release but not extended, right?

I don't think I got a confidence boost on any stimulant, neither Ritalin nor dexamphetamine. I did get a bit of a boost of physical energy though with Ritalin, which I didn't seem to get with dex though dex helped me more with focus.

Like namazu said once I realise that the meds really help and make me more functional, my confidence improved as well.

baical
10-28-15, 07:46 AM
well last few words you said your confidence improved so I would think YES you did GET a confidence boost, contradictory to your starting words? :confused:

I'd have to ask on the Desoxyn thread to find out if the confidence boost on Desoxyn means anxiety is non existent, contradictory to Desoxyn's "anxiety" producing sides. It shouldn't be too bad if one is confident yet anxious at the same time, kinda counters it and makes up for it. I feel as if I lack confidence to get things done due to procrastination therefore if I am confident enough, I feel as if I could get things done and I should. I do have a history of anxiety and panic attacks but so far I haven't had any of it even when on Vyvanse, I think my slight confidence with Vyvanse use, counters the uncertainty/anxiety that I would be having had I not been on Vyvanse.

ADHD/anxiety can be co morbids...

Something about being certain makes me confident and it's where I think I need to be but Vyvanse isn't strong enough even at 70 mg. When I'm confident, anxiety is lessened and it's a different type of anxiety (when I'm confident) not the type that makes me feel uncertain/unconfident, but more like excited to want to get things done but sometimes just not enough potency in this prodrug called Vyvanse.

I don't think I got a confidence boost on any stimulant, neither Ritalin nor dexamphetamine. I did get a bit of a boost of physical energy though with Ritalin, which I didn't seem to get with dex though dex helped me more with focus.

Like namazu said once I realise that the meds really help and make me more functional, my confidence improved as well.

Fuzzy12
10-28-15, 07:53 AM
Yes, but I think, it improved indirectly as a consequence of functioning better on meds rather than just because I'd taken the meds. Well, actually, on dex I did feel less anxious, I think, so maybe that helped directly with confidence as well? I'm not sure. :scratch:

aeon
10-28-15, 03:41 PM
Iíve never gotten a better sense of confidence from any med.

Successfully engaging in behaviors that are of benefit to my person, and working with consistency toward goalsó
and in time achieving them, are what give me a sense of confidence.

Oh, and sometimes someoneís encouragement and coaching can give me a sense of confidence.

The disability-relieving quality of efficacious medication helps with the engaging and working and achieving parts,
but by far, those things happen because of my own will and choice. Meds help with my ADHD, but they donít make
anything easier, just as crutches donít allow for better times in the 50-meter dash.

To the medication-naive, meds hold promise to wishes, hopes, dreams, and desires not realized. To this end,
great expectations may be put upon them.

Well, I think and feel the expectations should be reasonable, and more importantly, that they should only be
placed upon oneself, because that is the beginning and end of reward and responsibility in most things in life,
and rightly so.

Meds can help, but they donít deliver the experience of confidence unless abused, and whatís that worth anyway?
I think confidence based on anything other than oneís realized efforts and successes is hollow, and a real danger
to oneís self-esteem and psychological well-being, as well as negatively changing how we relate to ourselves
and others.


Cheers,
Ian