View Full Version : Best anti-depressant for those with ADHD?


ADHDsim
12-09-15, 06:26 AM
Hi,

I've recently upped my dexedrine dose to 35mg a day (possibly 40 in time) and it has saved me from being diagnoised as having cyclorythmia bipolar (for now)

The additional doseage was to quail my late night "mania" aka hyperactivity with amazing success so far.

Anyway, outside of that above is there any particular medication that has been found to be effective for co-morbid / secondary depression in those with ADHD?

My depression is mild.

ADHDsim
12-09-15, 06:30 AM
I use to assume diurnal mood variation: http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172535

Which I'm sure can be confused with bipolar etc easily, the doctor wanted me to fill out a chart regarding my daily moods to which I replied weeks later that I couldn't answer because it changed threw out the day.

Fuzzy12
12-09-15, 06:59 AM
I think, this might be just me, but for me the best anti depressant really was dexamphetamine. I've tried SSRIs, SNRIs and a mood stabiliser and none of them really helped much, however, after I started dex, my mood not only markedly improved but I also didn't experience constant mood swings anymore. I think, a lot of it has to do with being able to function better on stimulants but also I just felt a lot more pleasant in my head and much better emotional regulation!!

Kunga Dorji
12-09-15, 07:14 AM
Exercise:
The opinions of a leading psychiatrist who HAS ADHD and specialises in the exercise mental health nexus might just be relevant here:
http://www.johnratey.com/

Now, the metanalyses of the results of antidepressants are extremely disappointing:

They have shown that about 64% of people will improve on placebo treatment, and about 66% will improve on antidepressants.

Ratey shows data that clearly demonstrates that while the response of patients to exercise and to antidepressants is around the same, the relapse rate on ceasing antidepressants is quite high, while few patients treated with exercise alone experience a relapse.

So, that is the science.

My personal experience is that nowadays my need for stimulants is very much intermittent.

However- if I am in a situation where I am required to work, but I am troubled by a difficult, depressing or distressing situation, and I cannot keep my mind off it, then
a single stat dose of dexamphetamine has a very beneficial effect.

I take my medication and get on with work-- and twenty minutes later the difficult (but unfixable) situation ceases to capture my attention.

So, that is an outcome that is clearly protective against depression- as I get the reward of a job well done, and I do not spend time wallowing in non constructive negativity.

ADHDsim
12-09-15, 01:03 PM
I agree fuzzy, dex has done a huge job for reducing depression but there is a point were dex can not take you further as it's not an anti depressant perse.

I'm happy to say that my ADHD is under control, and it's only at this point that I can say yes there is a sliver of under lying depression at the moment. possibly environmentally based.

And to kunga - yes I use to do the same to cool my horses and think away from unproductive depressing issues. My doctor frowned apon it but I told him that extra 5mg allows me to get away from my troubles and continue with my day.

Extra 5mg on extremly bright days, or prior going into busy areas helps a heap also.

Kunga Dorji
12-10-15, 09:29 AM
And to kunga - yes I use to do the same to cool my horses and think away from unproductive depressing issues. My doctor frowned upon it but I told him that extra 5mg allows me to get away from my troubles and continue with my day.

Your doctor needs to move away from "cookbook medicine" and to learn to think for himself.


Extra 5mg on extremly bright days, or prior going into busy areas helps a heap also.

I can suggest a couple of other options for these
Bright days-- sunglasses outside, red tinted glasses inside and avoid fluorescents. This has a direct effect on midbrain- de-activating the stress system.

Yeah- Rose coloured glasses.
Weird hey?- but neurologically proven.

So-- busy areas.
They present 2 problems-
1) lots of random movement can upset my sense of balance and make me feel stressed.- solution-- I bring my focus right into my body and turn the masses of wandering, aimless shoppers into a series of poles on an imaginary slalom course- and aim to be as hyperactive as possible- so I cut through the crowd as fast as possible without bumping anyone.

My mind moves faster than theirs-- so why should my body not follow suit?

2) Lots of random background noise- (ie indoor shopping centre with 50 different versions of piped music coming from every direction.-- defence measure here is an iPod with some good solid rock with a solid backbeat- and shut that overstimulating environment out of my head).

What work here for me may not work for you-- but AC/DC works a treat in shutting the random background noise down.

That tight integrated best pulls me together like nothing else can.

These tools work better than stimulants for this application.


Busy areas-- on a bad day when my sensory filters are not working

KarmanMonkey
12-18-15, 11:51 AM
My most effective anti-depressant has been avoiding the newspaper and network news. I'll seek out positive news articles (and there is plenty of good news out there) and generally surround myself with people whose attitudes support me rather than drain me.

That being said, I'm trying an SSRI again after years avoiding them, in the hopes that it'll give me some benefit around the anxiety issues. I've had a psychiatrist who told me though, that the reason SSRIs tend to suck for people with ADD is because depression and anxiety are more of a dopamine issue than a seratonin issue, so it's more effective to seek meds that impact our dopamine.

Personally I have serious doubts about the whole chemical imbalance theory. There's too much we still don't understand about the brain, and so little we can measure. It's just that they're the only medical tools in the box at the moment aside from ECT, so it's at least a choice we can explore.

Unmanagable
12-18-15, 12:46 PM
Purposeful exercise every morning has worked amazing wonders for me. After years of never really exercising on purpose, I've found a whole new lease on life, for real.

I had to make it fun and easy to do in my own home, though. Placed ads on craigslist to get used equipment really cheap. Scored a nice mini-trampoline with a safety bar, made my own hula hoop, was gifted an aerobic machine, and actually look forward to it each day instead of the typical dread of having to drive to a gym, navigate the nasty locker rooms and showers, then sit in other people's sweat and touch the same equipment....YUCK!!!! lol

All my equipment is in the same room with the stereo and incorporated into the decor so I don't have to get it out and put it away every day. Makes for one awesome wake up session and my whole outlook gets brighter within a few minutes. I damn sure feel the difference when I don't make time to do it first thing in the morning.

I was given many anti-depressants through the years (lexapro, abilify, effexor, celexa, zoloft, and cymbalta that I can recall) and experienced hellish side effects with each. Wellbutrin was the only one that helped for a short time. That, along with adderall helped me finally reach a functioning level that allowed me to seek other avenues of therapeutic relief for my many struggles. But the side effects eventually became too overwhelming from them, too.

DJ Bill
12-18-15, 02:27 PM
I'll second the Exercise for an antidepressant.. I've been biking or walking 30-45 minutes a day and when I stopped recently for a few weeks due to weather, holidays, work,etc. I went into a deep hole again...

Mall walking is good if you don't have a safe place to walk, and you can do it before the crowds get there..(Especially good if the escalators are shut off) and for biking, don't get into the lighter is better thing and spend a lot on a bike.. After all you are desiring exercise, not the fastest lightest bike you can find. My current bike is a one speed industrial bike with 26 inch balloon tires.

In my experience every day is much better than a couple times a week. I'll skip a day once in awhile if I need to.

Little Missy
12-18-15, 05:23 PM
I have made the worst decisions in my life on antidepressants. The most unbelievably worst ever.

I will never take them again, ever.

If I take them, I am incapable of taking care of myself.

But that is just me. Other people seem to do very well on them.

proileri
01-05-16, 11:41 AM
That being said, I'm trying an SSRI again after years avoiding them, in the hopes that it'll give me some benefit around the anxiety issues. I've had a psychiatrist who told me though, that the reason SSRIs tend to suck for people with ADD is because depression and anxiety are more of a dopamine issue than a seratonin issue, so it's more effective to seek meds that impact our dopamine.


It seems that SSRI's can have negative effect on dopamine, as well, especially Lexapro (escitalopram). I briefly discussed this with my psychiatrist over email and she agreed to go from Lexapro to Celexa (citalopram), which is a close relative but seems to have slightly less effect on dopamine neurons - but still seems to affect them somewhat.

My main problem with Lexapro is that while the serotonin effect seems to help with anxiety and depression, it also leaves me feeling slightly sluggish, like a zombie. I've also noted that Dexedrine improves my mood and thinking a bit, and amphetamines apparently act as a sort of dopamine-noradrenaline boosters, so the increase in dopamine might be the cause.

I have an appointment with my psychiatrist next month, so I'll be discussing the medical effects a bit further then. I already got the Celexa prescription, so let's see where it goes.

ADHDsim
01-08-16, 01:19 AM
I started Prozac soon after this thread was created with pretty decent results.

I was prescribed 10mg a day but moved to 20mg and now 30mg... And I reduce my dexedrine by 10mg a day.

No mania or hypomania if anything a reduction of anything that could be classified as mania, Im liking Prozac too much, I thought dexedrine was suppose to be addictive.

ADHDsim
01-08-16, 01:21 AM
Also regarding the use of sunglasses, I can't wear them for more than 10 minutes because I start to get derealisation which isn't pleasant...

Kunga Dorji
01-08-16, 11:00 AM
Also regarding the use of sunglasses, I can't wear them for more than 10 minutes because I start to get derealisation which isn't pleasant...

When you use the word "De-realisation" what exactly are you describing?

That is a term I reserve for what happens when I read a newspaper :)

traze23
01-11-16, 06:50 PM
I have made the worst decisions in my life on antidepressants. The most unbelievably worst ever.

I will never take them again, ever.

If I take them, I am incapable of taking care of myself.

But that is just me. Other people seem to do very well on them.

What happened?

prittypea
03-23-16, 06:50 AM
Viibryd helped me and worked immediately. Only downfall is that I learned the hard way that if you don't take it on time everyday you get "brain shocks" which I wish I knew ahead of time as I thought I was having a seizure or something. You do have to be careful of viibryd and stimulants together as it can cause serotonin syndrome but I stay at 20mg along with my 70mg of adderall throughout the day and its been okay. Def much better than having random suicidal thoughts and crying all the time.

katrin-ru
04-07-16, 03:14 AM
For me the best antidepressant was zoloft (http://undepress.net/zoloft-your-sword-to-fight-depression-description-and-side-effects/)

Kunga Dorji
04-23-16, 03:19 AM
Its still exercise :)

sarahsweets
04-23-16, 08:06 AM
Its still exercise :)

This is one of the best non-med approaches to depression but IMO meds are good for severe cases.

dusty1
05-05-16, 04:11 PM
I've been struggling for years - on and off adhd meds, tried ssris in the past, and finally went through the full paces of formal adhd testing and was given a combined type dx, with 'other' depression/anxiety. I need to follow up with my pcp who will either prescribe or send me off to a psychiatrist. So this thread is very relevant to me. And I just wanted to add a few things:

1) it's hard to want to exercise when your entire body is saying "play candy crush. Just one more level. The laundry can wait."
2) it's hard to exercise when you know that everyone outside or at the gym is staring at you, and you know you look like an idiot and your clothes suck, your body sucks, and you just want to stay home in your happy place. (even if it's more like a jail)
3) The best I remember ever feeling is on Celexa/WB (or maybe it was lexapro/WB) but I also remember gaining a lot of weight.
4) adderall xr helps with the adhd, but not enough. And I have a real tendency to over focus and get lost (see step 1, candy crush, this forum, just spent 90 wasted minutes browsing)

So, I'm wondering what my doctor might suggest and what I might need to persuade her to get me to a psychiatrist if she seems unskilled in medication.

Not really helpful, but I'm curious to see what comes.

aeon
05-05-16, 10:20 PM
I think, this might be just me, but for me the best anti depressant really was dexamphetamine. I've tried SSRIs, SNRIs and a mood stabiliser and none of them really helped much, however, after I started dex, my mood not only markedly improved but I also didn't experience constant mood swings anymore. I think, a lot of it has to do with being able to function better on stimulants but also I just felt a lot more pleasant in my head and much better emotional regulation!!

+1 over and over for infinity.

I never abused it, I just took it every day and it was life-changing.

Iím sad it is gone, but I coped for 40 years before it, and I am coping now.


Cheers,
Ian

aeon
05-05-16, 10:25 PM
I have made the worst decisions in my life on antidepressants. The most unbelievably worst ever.

I will never take them again, ever.

If I take them, I am incapable of taking care of myself.

But that is just me. Other people seem to do very well on them.

Maybe I have too...made the worst decisions in my life on antidepressants.

But Iím beginning to think life isnít tenable for me without them.

This is too hard.


**** Me,
Ian

Little Nut
05-06-16, 11:31 AM
Hi,

I've recently upped my dexedrine dose to 35mg a day (possibly 40 in time) and it has saved me from being diagnoised as having cyclorythmia bipolar (for now)

The additional doseage was to quail my late night "mania" aka hyperactivity with amazing success so far.

Anyway, outside of that above is there any particular medication that has been found to be effective for co-morbid / secondary depression in those with ADHD?

My depression is mild.

ADHDsim, Sorry I can't help with your question. Some thoughts on issues I would review w/ my Doc. I have a "feeling" that finding an effective AD for you may be complicated with the Dexedrine. If there is a lot of overlap with your ADHD and depressive symptoms the Dexedrine may be treating them. So this means that some of the AD's that would help may not show an impact at starting or near-starting doses. (Boy, I hope that makes sense.)

Also, I would guess some Dexedrine/AD combos would be an issue in the event you do have a Bipolar disorder. GL, -LN

Fuzzy12
05-06-16, 03:00 PM
+1 over and over for infinity.

I never abused it, I just took it every day and it was life-changing.

Iím sad it is gone, but I coped for 40 years before it, and I am coping now.


Cheers,
Ian

Sigh..why are you off dex then? Insurance issues?

I'm trying to cope as well without dex but my emotional regulation is markedly worse again and the mood swings are bad. Some of the things I learnt while dexicated still help me today though.

Fuzzy12
05-06-16, 03:01 PM
Lil nut. I've been meaning to ask. What's GL???

GooD life? Great learning? Google limitless???

aeon
05-06-16, 03:07 PM
Sigh..why are you off dex then? Insurance issues?

Yes, in that I have to pay for everything out of pocket, and dex spansules are spendy.

I'm trying to cope as well without dex but my emotional regulation is markedly worse again and the mood swings are bad. Some of the things I learnt while dexicated still help me today though.

I could say those exact words myself.

In a way, because I know what is happening, I can chill. In a way, because...

In the midst of it, ffs, knowing or not, it is still bad. Enough so that I have decided that I am going to do what it takes to be back on ALL my meds, ADs included, and dex too.

Life doesn't feel worth living or seem to have a point without them. Maybe it doesn't have a point anyway, but the not worth living part has to change or at some point I am going to find myself feeling agitated, with some energy, and I am going to do something rash, and I want neither that nor the potential consequences.


Cheers,
Ian

Fuzzy12
05-06-16, 03:15 PM
Yes, in that I have to pay for everything out of pocket, and dex spansules are spendy.



I could say those exact words myself.

In a way, because I know what is happening, I can chill. In a way, because...

In the midst of it, ffs, knowing or not, it is still bad. Enough so that I have decided that I am going to do what it takes to be back on ALL my meds, ADs included, and dex too.

Life doesn't feel worth living or seem to have a point without them. Maybe it doesn't have a point anyway, but the not worth living part has to change or at some point I am going to find myself feeling agitated, with some energy, and I am going to do something rash, and I want neither that nor the potential consequences.


Cheers,
Ian

Yes, that makes sense. It sucks that you can't take meds that you need. I hope you can soon get back on them. Life is definitely better on them. Take good care of yourself till then.

Fuzzy12
05-06-16, 03:18 PM
Lil nut. I've been meaning to ask. What's GL???

GooD life? Great learning? Google limitless???

Oh..is it good luck??????

Little Nut
05-06-16, 06:34 PM
Lil nut. I've been meaning to ask. What's GL???

GooD life? Great learning? Google limitless???

Sorry Fuzz old BBS shorthand. The ones that may not be clear that I tend to use frequently.

GL= Good Luck
HTH = Hope This Helps or Happy To Help depending on context
OTOH = On The Other Hand
AFAIK = As Far As I know

Fuzzy12
05-06-16, 06:39 PM
Sorry Fuzz old BBS shorthand. The ones that may not be clear that I tend to use frequently.

GL= Good Luck
HTH = Hope This Helps or Happy To Help depending on context
OTOH = On The Other Hand
AFAIK = As Far As I know

What about bbs? :lol:

Fuzzy12
05-06-16, 06:43 PM
Bbs : baton rouge boy scouts? ? :scratch:

aeon
05-06-16, 09:26 PM
bulletin board system

Little Nut
05-06-16, 09:41 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system

Think of hundreds of single topic forums grouped together on an individual bbs service provider's servers. They were not statically connected to all of the other bbs providers and synched up periodically. Bandwith was very expensive/limited so it made sense at the time. That is the reason for all of the shorthand that just rolled over to texting. Ahem....well not ALL of it, obviously.

Little Nut
05-06-16, 09:45 PM
Bbs : baton rouge boy scouts? ? :scratch:

You do know without Aeon, this post had the ability to hijack this thread into a completely inappropriate direction.

aeon
05-06-16, 09:53 PM
I bought a 300-baud modem with lawn cutting money in 1979 when I was 10 years old.

Programming and rocking the Apple ][ back in the day.

37 years of forums so far! :yes:

Little Missy
05-07-16, 09:12 AM
For years I though lol meant lots of love and I could never figure out why so many people were full of that much love to offer it about so glibly.