View Full Version : Random questions about genetics?


mildadhd
12-12-15, 12:10 PM
This thread is meant to explore random questions about genetics. All questions and possible solutions appreciated.

Example (but not limited to): What are the genetic differences between normal anxiety, being born with a anxiety disorder and acquiring a anxiety comorbidity?

Greyhound1
12-12-15, 12:35 PM
I have suffered with anxiety for many years. I have wondered how much was genetic disposition vs. environmental factors. I found a couple of articles about the genetics involved.


https://www.anxiety.org/genetics-determine-the-effect-of-stress-on-our-emotions
http://psychcentral.com/news/2008/03/04/genetic-disposition-for-anxiety/1997.html

mildadhd
12-12-15, 01:09 PM
I have suffered with anxiety for many years. I have wondered how much was genetic disposition vs. environmental factors. I found a couple of articles about the genetics involved.


https://www.anxiety.org/genetics-determine-the-effect-of-stress-on-our-emotions
http://psychcentral.com/news/2008/03/04/genetic-disposition-for-anxiety/1997.html

Odds are chronic environmental distresses and higher numbers of predisposition variants probably do make anxiety more probable. Its fascinating to think my recent ancestors distressful experiences may predispose me to have a more hypersensitive temperament (HSP) and hyperreactive to distressful experiences. I have read that chronic cortisol overexposure due to chronic distresses can result in the hippocampus shinking, resulting in memory disorders, but I can not remember where I read the information at the moment. :D

Greyhound1
12-12-15, 01:14 PM
If chronic distress causes the hippocampus to shrink, mine may have already disappeared.:(

mildadhd
12-12-15, 01:20 PM
If chronic distress causes the hippocampus to shrink, mine may have already disappeared.:(

Shrinking can be reversed by fun/joy.

Greyhound1
12-12-15, 01:26 PM
Shrinking can be reversed by fun.

That's encouraging. I just hope, I can still remember how.

Life hasn't been fun for such a very long time. I hope someday soon it can be a part of it again.

mildadhd
12-12-15, 01:32 PM
That's encouraging. I just hope, I can still remember how.

Life hasn't been fun for such a very long time. I hope someday soon it can be a part of it again.

Running can be a type of fun/joy, for some. Running with a friend perhaps.

Greyhound1
12-12-15, 01:41 PM
I really need to get back to fishing more regularly. I always enjoy it but my anxiety usually tries to talk me out of it.

mildadhd
12-12-15, 01:52 PM
I really need to get back to fishing more regularly. I always enjoy it but my anxiety usually tries to talk me out of it.

Fishing is to complex for me. I find it important to keep funjoy simple.

mildadhd
12-12-15, 01:59 PM
Anyone know anything about the genetics/basic instincts of funjoy?

Greyhound1
12-12-15, 02:12 PM
Fishing is to complex for me. I find it important to keep funjoy simple.

I need the complexity for really enjoyable stimulation. It provides excitement and a sense of accomplishment for me. Also, it keeps my mind occupied more and blocks out much of the anxiety and stress of life.

When I am totally engaged in fishing is when my brain feels the most focused and relaxed. Fishing is when I feel the most normal. It allows my mind to rest and not worry.

Question is why do I choose to put it off when I have plenty of opportunity and enjoy the benefits so much. I hate anxiety!

mildadhd
12-12-15, 03:16 PM
I need the complexity for really enjoyable stimulation. It provides excitement and a sense of accomplishment for me. Also, it keeps my mind occupied more and blocks out much of the anxiety and stress of life.

When I am totally engaged in fishing is when my brain feels the most focused and relaxed. Fishing is when I feel the most normal. It allows my mind to rest and not worry.

Question is why do I choose to put it off when I have plenty of opportunity and enjoy the benefits so much. I hate anxiety!

I find natural environments relaxing. Getting to the natural environments can be to complex. There is a bird sanctuary down the road that I go to relax sometimes, when I remember. Thanks

mildadhd
12-12-15, 03:26 PM
Negative feeling instincts override positive feeling instincts naturally, meant to promote survival during distressful circumstances.

mildadhd
12-12-15, 04:46 PM
How come some people have a known genetic ADHD predisposition, but don't have ADHD?

How come some people have ADHD, but don't have any known genetic predisposition?

Greyhound1
12-12-15, 04:46 PM
Negative feeling instincts override positive feeling instincts naturally, meant to promote survival during distressful circumstances.

That's a good point. My problem is that those negative feelings make life a distressful circumstance even when it's not or at least shouldn't be. It feels like my anxiety or my ADHD seeks out distress possibly for mental stimulation. Throw OCD in the mix and everything becomes stressful.

It self-perpetuates. Makes mountains out of mole hills when nothing better to worry about.

Like right know, I am starting to worry about how much I worry. :confused:

mildadhd
12-12-15, 04:49 PM
If 1 out of 3 people grow out of ADHD, what happens to the genetics associated with ADHD, when these people grow out of ADHD?

mildadhd
12-12-15, 04:59 PM
That's a good point. My problem is that those negative feelings make life a distressful circumstance even when it's not or at least shouldn't be. It feels like my anxiety or my ADHD seeks out distress possibly for mental stimulation. Throw OCD in the mix and everything becomes stressful.

It self-perpetuates. Makes mountains out of mole hills when nothing better to worry about.

Like right know, I am starting to worry about how much I worry. :confused:

All people experience anxiety. Our positive and negative feeling emotional systems are like muscle systems, they grow when they are used. People born with more hypersensitive temperaments, are more hyperreactive to distresses, and their emotional systems may become over active. Healthy balance of positive and negative experiences promotes healthy brain development. Distresses resulting in fear and separation along with hypersensitive temperament in early life, make anxiety disorders and anxiety comorbidity even more likely. Have you discussed treating anxiety with your doctor?

daveddd
12-12-15, 11:33 PM
whats up periph

i believe genetic predipositions are pre dispostions for handing stress

some may learn better coping mechanisms as they grow

Greyhound1
12-13-15, 02:14 AM
Have you discussed treating anxiety with your doctor?

I did and tried about every conventional treatment for over a decade. The lack of response to treatment lead to my ADHD evaluation and diagnosis.

Treatment for ADHD has greatly helped but anxiety can sometimes still be a problem.

mildadhd
12-13-15, 02:24 AM
whats up periph

i believe genetic predipositions are pre dispostions for handing stress

some may learn better coping mechanisms as they grow


I think your right. Individual common genetic response systems settings are epigenetically fine tuned calibrated by early environment. Development during the third trimester and the first 2 years of life are the most sensitive to environmental distresses. The second trimester being the second most sensitive to early environmental factors. And the first trimester being the third most sensitive to early environmental factors.

mildadhd
12-13-15, 02:54 AM
I did and tried about every conventional treatment for over a decade. The lack of response to treatment lead to my ADHD evaluation and diagnosis.

Treatment for ADHD has greatly helped but anxiety can sometimes still be a problem.

I am in a similar boat. I experience both fear anxiety disorder and separation anxiety disorder, with commorbbidditties ADHD, anxiety, depression, addiction, with a very strong counterwill. (can also mildly relate to autism as well)

mildadhd
12-13-15, 04:38 AM
I did and tried about every conventional treatment for over a decade. The lack of response to treatment lead to my ADHD evaluation and diagnosis.

Treatment for ADHD has greatly helped but anxiety can sometimes still be a problem.

If ever come across the chance, I hope to try a squeeze machine designed by Temple Grandin.

SB_UK
12-13-15, 05:16 AM
Anxiety - only mechanism I can see - arises through increased sensitivity to information immersed in a level of information which exceeds processing power.

There's an interesting line which runs here - which connects -
increased sensitivity
anxiety
depression
obesity / diabetes (self-medication for anxiety depression)
asthma (strongly believed to run alongside increased sensitivity)

So - increased senstivity is causal.
But an increased predisposition ot sensitivity will mean that it'll arise even if not triggered through immediate distress in life (which it often is) eg parent dumping child in a nursery the day after birth - but will eventually arise in some situation giving rise to the apparence of anxiety as a co-morbidity.

But underneath it all - all we have is increased sensitivity.

-*-

Personally - anxiety arises through being expected to attempt any task which I cannot guarantee I can handle - which generally requires repetition.
Anxiety - arises - through developing ability in something that isn't worthwhile ie you somehow have to pay attention to something or other which the mind can precisely define the pointlessness the task.
Anxiety - arises - when one loss of control over a project ie you enter territory where somebody else tells you what to do - or the path ahead is not clear.

Now - I've listed those out from past experience.
But what is interesting (just checked!) is that they relate to:
[1] MASTERY
[2] PURPOSE
[3] AUTONOMY

That's actually quite interesting -
because according to published research (Pink, what actually motivates people ?) - in all tasks requiring creativity - we need the confluence of autonomy, mastery and purpose.

Since - I can define that anxiety arises in situations which defines loss of autonomy, mastery and purpose - we can surmise that ADDers are 'creative task' predisposed -
- which is interesting, because although it's the same general conclusion that I always reach - have never gotten there this way.

SB_UK
12-13-15, 05:28 AM
From the perspective of this thread then -

'root of anxiety'

Summary
Development/application of our inherent creative capacity represents the reward system which if *not* activated results in immediate reactive distress (anxiety) in ADDers. We appear different in that we do not appear to be able to obtain sufficient reward from following paths which are ot characterized by leading to individual autonomy, master and purpose.
Since individual autonomy, mastery purpose (being as good as one can be) will be reflected in society being as good as it can be - we observe the 2 principles in the 2 broad political philosophies - reflecting 2 sides of the same coin.
ADDers are creativity-predisposed with the important corollary that we break when we're expected to enagge in destructive processes within a destructive society.

Evolutionary pattern [infinite scope]
[a]
unit (eg left hemisphere or right wing individual-centric)
integral of unit (eg right hemisphere or left wing society-centric) = NEW UNIT
[b]
NEW UNIT
integral of NEW UNIT
[c]
... ... to infinity ... ...

SB_UK
12-13-15, 05:43 AM
If 1 out of 3 people grow out of ADHD, what happens to the genetics associated with ADHD, when these people grow out of ADHD?

I think 1 in 3 people find an environment which does not trigger their ADHD - as we grow we're more able to choose our own path.

The violence of competitive educational systems (where ADHD rises) when passed through results in the individual, as s/he settles into life on benefits or in some dead-end job - being in a safe environment in which they're no longer under fear of failure in every waking moment.

So - there's a common argument that school provides individuals with more education than they need in order to do the boring jobs that people do. Switching from 'learning' to 'boring safe' environment would prevent ADDer distress.

But in actual fact - learning systems (teaching people transiet information ie not helping people to become intrinsically better) and work (doing pointless things for money even if some are a little more complex than others) -
- are both at fault.

Education needs to make people intrinsically better (so a bicycle riding model of education - once you've learnt you can't forget how) -
- and the workplace needs to be voluntary - so people can choose their own path.

Re-invent education and re-invent work - and the species will nto render itself extinct.

SB_UK
12-13-15, 05:51 AM
If chronic distress causes the hippocampus to shrink, mine may have already disappeared.:(
This is a really important point.

Can't work out whether we have distress/anxiety destroyed short term memory capacity - or whether the increasing sensitivity makes us aware of the minute aspect of reality which even the best memory captures -

whereby - substituting memory->knowledge (ie the silly people who can regurgitate facts in a pub quiz) for memory->understandign ie where observations are translated into understandign rendering it unnecessary for us to remember anything ... ... is occurring.

I can feel a reactive resistance to remembering things - that is based around the fact that - to remember things eg name - there's an arbitrary nature to it ie there is no logic or understanding which belies the name of a road etc ... ... should we be wasting our brain/mind on simple facts - when we're pretty mush sitting on automatic retrieval of ALL facts known to man via computer enhancement.

Current news stories appear to be suggesting that we're going to develop an even closer relationship with technology - which will mean (ie immediate access to all information available) that the human capacity to retrieve information will take a hit.

Television yesterday - Star Trek Gneerations followed by Red Dwarf - both produced many years ago - both featured VR - which is due to hit the consumer marked in a couple of months from ALL manufacutrers.

That's a difficult one ^^^ but I believe that life is better without memories (history is only defined by war) since human beings have done little right over the last 5,000 years.

Just 1 person trying to steal something of no worth off another person - where the actual goal is to reach a state of mind (happiness) where one wants to give other people whatever will help them to shine.

-*-

So ... ... in line with computer programming languages - I think that the mins is switching from storing data into pointers which reference data stored on-line ie to know where to look for information - information retrieval capacity - as the new 'mind'.
Some element - whilst describing this - seems to hint at the nature of an incapacity for intelligence in the absence of large working stock of information - but that's not right.

The problem with living within an information-rich world is that we're not ever going to manage it without information retrieval in excess of that which our mind can support at any one time - hardly surprising if we see eg the rise of the gps and then the incorporation of gps into wearable tech ie we have constant access to all geographical locations in the world - a capacity which we need - which the human mind can't handle.
Also - itneresting - loss of the need for memory - should have reactive improvements on speed of processing ie we don't need to store local information - but what we do need to do is to process increasing amounts of informaiton.

All very interesting - to produce minds via tech which're capable of processing faster.

Anxiety - imagine having a sportscar and needin to drive it in a 30mph zone; the car breaks.

-*-

So - a symbiotic relationship between the human mind and a central data repository - where it needs to be mentioned that the central database isn't an intelligence which forces human beings to operate - is simply an enabling data store which allows human beings to access current understanding - and to then use this platform to achieve personal excellence - by pushing the envelope further.
Without a shared library of information - we're going to end up re-inventing the wheel over and over until we die out never having put two wheels together into a bicycle.

mildadhd
12-14-15, 01:50 AM
This is a really important point.

Can't work out whether we have distress/anxiety destroyed short term memory capacity - or whether the increasing sensitivity makes us aware of the minute aspect of reality which even the best memory captures -




The effects of hypersensitive affects.

The effects of experiencing chronic levels of cortisol during a period of development.

The effects of hypersensitive affects, and, experiencing chronic levels of cortisol during a period of development.

SB_UK
12-14-15, 04:08 AM
The effects of hypersensitive affects.

The effects of experiencing chronic levels of cortisol during a period of development.

The effects of hypersensitive affects, and, experiencing chronic levels of cortisol during a period of development.

The problem here is whether memory degradation is a fault or a feature - because although we'd tend towards thinking of it as a flaw - there's something interesting about not being able to store information with no meaning ie memory - we are not bound or attached to it ie classical -ISMs require us to believe in something which makes no sense - personally I can't believe in anyting which makes no sense.

So - cortisol-induced elimination of short term memory capacity may be adaptive ?

Memory has this quality of drawing us to some emotionally charged, painful event and reliving it - it would be beneficial not to fall victim to this aspect of mind.

We do know that stress triggers PTSD triggers memory loss - perhaps this form of maladaptive mechanism is adaptive when presented at lower levels in sensitive children.

Any debate about feature vs flaw in the same facility are interesting.

SB_UK
12-14-15, 04:29 AM
OK - I see.

We're observing something like an
Alienware -> Chromebook evolutionary transition

ie 'Alienware' - higher standalone power, works isolated, burns itself out, no lasting power cf carbohydrate metabolism
'Chromebook' - the opposite of all of the above - enforcedly social - aerobic fat-based metabolism

-*-

What's the giveaway which defines memory deterioration as feature ?
We're sensitive and so react given the same level of distressor which wouldn't affect the insensitive.

Meaning ?
That we change, the environment stays the same, we express a distress reaction which forces environmental change ie we're changing first - leading to environmental change to accommodate our sensitivity to information-rich novel personalities.
So - the interesting thing here - is that emergent individual nature precedes/pre-empts change in nurture.

But why does memory have to take the hit that it does ?
Literally - the ADDer mind can't place things into memory unless they're vetted and make sense - and at the point they're vetted and make sense - they're no longer required as datapoints as they've generated an underlying stucture of understanding which can then negotiate the individual through life ie provides a framework for assessing novel data for correctness.

-*-

All that's required is to reference the Markram mechanism for generating information sensitivity in the cortex
- just an additional level of neural development which generates (on every level that the cortex handles) - an 'Intense world' for information-sensitive ADDers.
Development of these Markram networks through practice - generates 'quality'.
Individual intrinsic interior quality.

Perhaps we need to identify which 'learning' / practice / repetitive schemes generate quality in these circuits in man
- but the answer should be - nothing more than the combined set of hobbies which people engage in for personal satisfaction -
the fact that these reward/motivate must reference the idea that they're resulting in 'learning' -
'learning' - despite the manner in which Western schooling perverts learning into boring ... ... a true definition of learning should relate to 'fun' - which can be divined by collecting the set of activities which human beings engage in without expectation of pay.

SB_UK
12-14-15, 04:45 AM
This thread is meant to explore random questions about genetics. All questions and possible solutions appreciated.

Example (but not limited to): What are the genetic differences between normal anxiety, being born with a anxiety disorder and acquiring a anxiety comorbidity?

So hypersensitive nature + standard social/environmental nurture -> leads to -> distress
distress + hypersensitive nature -> pre-empts -> sensitive social/environmental nurture

ie all that anybody with anxiety needs ot do is to divine why - and then to extricate themselves away from the distressor.

If one analyses exactly what is distressing (leading to anxiety) in this current world - the entire basis to this can be boiled down into one sentence.

People are working towards their own self-gratification at the expense of others (cf Schadenfreude cf the average soap opera), instead of mutual gratification of all things real (from human quality diversity to human soil diversity)
- which is deeply irrational, so one sees, when one 'finally' grows a mind - monoculture (the end consequence of economics cf board game Monopoly) is not resistant to challenge.

You might have 'won' - but there's nobody left on the planet - and so you lose also.

The natural pattern is for a society to form characterized by flat and not hierarchical interaction.

Any level of hierarchy (in skill) - unlike in current society - should represent teaching to elevate students above ... ... and not towards acquiring positions of power to subjugate people (who're generally better) below you - for reasons of delegation, laziness, greed.

The novel Markram cortical network (intrinsic quality acquisition) can be viewed like a garden - where the point of life is:
il faut cultiver notre* jardin* interesting as we can view the collective integral of 'quality' as a species level 'quality' scape which subscribes to the rules of evolution ie the collective (integral) capacity to express quality is the current evolutionary 'task' of man - where this requires diversity and not monoculture in an individual's life such that people can explore individually rewarding pursuits towards cultivating their individual and accordingly - the collective 'notion' or representation of quality.

It's all about (materialism to quality/beauty) survival.

mildadhd
12-18-15, 10:51 PM
Any debate about feature vs flaw in the same facility are interesting.

Thanks, I agree.

Example.

Feature of the genetic fear system?

Verses.

Flaw of the genetic fear system?