View Full Version : what's a good sedative to calm down from amphetamine?


baical
12-30-15, 09:30 AM
I am prescribed 10 mg Dexedrine Spansule but I'm curious if I could request from my doctor a medication so that when I want to go to sleep I could just slowly calm down off Dexedrine. I am also prescribed a benzo called Xanax, which I do not use. It is used for "calm downs" if I ever have a panic attack (having a history of it). Anyway, I much prefer a sedative to slowly get me ready for bed and is Soma or Baclofen something to consider? I believe these are not controlled and is more prescribed as a sleeping pill (Soma) or a muscle relaxer (baclofen). Any other I should consider? I do not want to take any of those OTC sleeping pill like diphenhydramine.

sarahsweets
12-31-15, 04:32 AM
Well soma is a barbituate and here in my state it is a controlled substance and very easy to overdose on accidentally. Are you looking for something like a sleeping pill or benzo? If you have xanax already then I dont see why you would need a different sedative. The typical sleep meds: ambien, lunesta,sonata are considered sedative/hypnotics.

baical
12-31-15, 07:10 AM
I see. I rechecked that Soma is scheduled 4. Xanax is scheduled 5 I believe. Not sure what people are talking about regarding that withdrawal from xanax can "kill you', which is why I never used it despite me having it prescribed "in case". I've heard of those hypnotics before but not familiar with neurotransmitter it acts up on, I was looking into a gabaergic sedative. I think all these "Z drugs" affect GABA A.

baical
01-01-16, 09:15 AM
Does anyone know if the hypnotic/sedative drugs are even covered by Medicaid?

Little Missy
01-01-16, 09:53 AM
Try the Xanax.

Little Missy
01-01-16, 09:59 AM
Does anyone know if the hypnotic/sedative drugs are even covered by Medicaid?

Your Medicaid Formulary will list the medications covered.

Unmanagable
01-01-16, 10:07 AM
Just speaking from my xanax experience here.....I used to have to take xanax once I got home from work to try to chill enough to think about going to sleep when I was still on adderall ir to manage my adhd symptoms.

Then I'd take an ambien to hopefully put me to sleep, then was directed to take yet another xanax in the middle of the night if I woke and couldn't go back to sleep.

It worked sort of okay for a short time until the side effects took over and made life unbearable from that state of mind. Waking up and trying to function in any effective capacity during that time was always a crap shoot. Best wishes in finding what works.

dvdnvwls
01-02-16, 01:46 AM
What's the latest time of day that you've ever taken Dexedrine? And what time do you sleep?

AddultADD
01-04-16, 11:01 PM
I have been on week 4 and gotten past
1. Headches
2. Doses working well sometimes and not working well at other times
3. Instead of straight Insomnia I wake up with broken sleep like 3 time a night (still dreaming)
4. First week Paranoia has long gone.
5. Gone from insomnia for 2 nights, dropped to sometimes broken sleep (week 4)
6. Without benzodiazepine or good night sleep the focus productivity is under stress.
7. Currently taking 20mg Dextroamphetamine (not too much, but still producing some mild effect slowly getting better, but required Benzodiazepines to relax my Mind and Body or else the Stimulants don't work.

Currently Going to my Psychiatrist in 2 days to see if I need to go on Clonazepam ( I as on this medicaine before). I have been on this medication for 4 weeks and it is slowly getting better but I'm finding it's much better to goto a a Psychiatrist who isn't paranoid about the combination of Stimulants and one or two other serious medications, because often it takes more than simpy Ritalin or Dextroamphetamine or Adderall alone just to get over the first side effects, although that may not be talked about very often due to drug seekers, but push them aside, people DO need more than their simple Dex or Ritalin, theres plenty of side effects to combat and if not successful a persons life may be severely handicapped for the rest of their life.

The Australian Guidelines for Prescribing those With ADHD which includes the notice that there are commonly another one or two medications that need to be thrown in to keep Adult ADHD and other CoMorbid disorders under control.

http://www.australianprescriber.com/magazine/31/5/129/32

sarahsweets
01-05-16, 04:43 AM
I have been on week 4 and gotten past
1. Headches
2. Doses working well sometimes and not working well at other times
3. Instead of straight Insomnia I wake up with broken sleep like 3 time a night (still dreaming)
4. First week Paranoia has long gone.
5. Gone from insomnia for 2 nights, dropped to sometimes broken sleep (week 4)
6. Without benzodiazepine or good night sleep the focus productivity is under stress.
7. Currently taking 20mg Dextroamphetamine (not too much, but still producing some mild effect slowly getting better, but required Benzodiazepines to relax my Mind and Body or else the Stimulants don't work.

Currently Going to my Psychiatrist in 2 days to see if I need to go on Clonazepam ( I as on this medicaine before). I have been on this medication for 4 weeks and it is slowly getting better but I'm finding it's much better to goto a a Psychiatrist who isn't paranoid about the combination of Stimulants and one or two other serious medications, because often it takes more than simpy Ritalin or Dextroamphetamine or Adderall alone just to get over the first side effects, although that may not be talked about very often due to drug seekers, but push them aside, people DO need more than their simple Dex or Ritalin, theres plenty of side effects to combat and if not successful a persons life may be severely handicapped for the rest of their life.

The Australian Guidelines for Prescribing those With ADHD which includes the notice that there are commonly another one or two medications that need to be thrown in to keep Adult ADHD and other CoMorbid disorders under control.

http://www.australianprescriber.com/magazine/31/5/129/32

I hear what your saying but you have to evaluate if those side effects are better managed with a lower dose or different med and not necessarily by adding something else to the mix.

Socaljaxs
01-05-16, 06:02 AM
I'm a little confused, and these two sedatives mentioned bring ups bad memories for me. And I don't want to frighten you, but please please be careful with testing out sleep type inducing medications... Soma are muscle relaxers, and can be highly addictive. not sure why that would be perscribed to be a sedative to sleep. There are many other options out there.... Yes it can make you sleepy but it purpose isn't just for that..

Also, I am throwing this out there since, it's how I lost my best friend. But on my friends 39th birthday, 3 years ago she had an accidental overdose and died. Toxicology report found low levels of soma and ambien in her system. That was it. That mixture even at low doses caused her death. Full disclosure, She had a previous lung issue from a trauma that almost took her life 8 months prior. She was stabbed at a bar during a major bar fight. But the final ruling of her death was accidental overdose..

So like a previous I poster, it can and has caused overdoses even at low levels with mixed together.

Lunacie
01-05-16, 12:09 PM
I thought stimulants were oddly able to calm down those with adhd rather than ramping them up?

I totally understand needing something for sleep just because with adhd your brain (and even body for some) doesn't shut off.

My granddaughter and I both use Trazodone for sleep. Works well for us.

It was developed to be an anti-depressant and anti-anxiety med, and we both have anxiety issues.

Socaljaxs
01-05-16, 01:22 PM
I thought stimulants were oddly able to calm down those with adhd rather than ramping them up?
I totally understand needing something for sleep just because with adhd your brain (and even body for some) doesn't shut off.

I will say I noticed my generic brand of Adderall made a difference in how easy or difficult it was to sleep. Also, times of last dose. I go to the gym and do vigorous workouts almost ever night which helps.

Over the past month. I self diagnosed myself with restless leg syndrome, I haven't spoken to a doctor about it. I'm terrified of perscription sleep aids. I've heard such crazy stories of people that take ambien(like sleep walking, sleep eating, I've heard people drive and have zero memory of doing so... And waking up in different places... So I haven't spoken to my doctor about sleep medication.

However for me, only thing I ever take for sleep (if needed) is an Aleve pm or similar or a melatonin or sleepy time tea and sometimes coffee helps me when I'm awake at 3:00 am for no good reason.:eyebrow: I will drink a cup... I have horrible sleep patterns and tend too for the most part have nights of broken sleep.... However, most of the time my issues with sleep are that I have physical discomfort and pain. Ive been dianosed and treated for sleep apnea as well..

I'm also a really light sleeper in general and wake easily..... and just discovered one big reason, I keep waking up lately is due to the condo I live in! The walls here are very thin and the sound barriers between units is almost non -existent(big complaint from most residence in my 1700 unit complex) so when my upstairs neighbor is walking upstairs the wood will creak and I hear everything like drawers and Windows, and I hear it, and get woken up.. This, I just realized recently.

But, I have never heard of people that had major issues with Xanax to help them sleep. if you've been perscribed it maybe go back and talk to your doctor about your concerns and see what they say

Lunacie
01-05-16, 02:08 PM
I will say I noticed my generic brand of Adderall made a difference in how easy or difficult it was to sleep. Also, times of last dose. I go to the gym and do vigorous workouts almost ever night which helps.

Over the past month. I self diagnosed myself with restless leg syndrome, I haven't spoken to a doctor about it. I'm terrified of perscription sleep aids. I've heard such crazy stories of people that take ambien(like sleep walking, sleep eating, I've heard people drive and have zero memory of doing so... And waking up in different places... So I haven't spoken to my doctor about sleep medication.

However for me, only thing I ever take for sleep (if needed) is an Aleve pm or similar or a melatonin or sleepy time tea and sometimes coffee helps me when I'm awake at 3:00 am for no good reason.:eyebrow: I will drink a cup... I have horrible sleep patterns and tend too for the most part have nights of broken sleep.... However, most of the time my issues with sleep are that I have physical discomfort and pain. Ive been dianosed and treated for sleep apnea as well..

I'm also a really light sleeper in general and wake easily..... and just discovered one big reason, I keep waking up lately is due to the condo I live in! The walls here are very thin and the sound barriers between units is almost non -existent(big complaint from most residence in my 1700 unit complex) so when my upstairs neighbor is walking upstairs the wood will creak and I hear everything like drawers and Windows, and I hear it, and get woken up.. This, I just realized recently.

But, I have never heard of people that had major issues with Xanax to help them sleep. if you've been perscribed it maybe go back and talk to your doctor about your concerns and see what they say

I've read that using a weighted blanket can help with restless legs.

I run a fan at night to mask noises so I can sleep better. I'm very sensitive to noise.

baical
01-14-16, 05:05 AM
please don't frighten us all...

anyone that prescribed her 2 "downers" like soma and ambien shouldn't be practicing medicine. Bad combo. Add to that about the "bar fight" you mention which tells me she is an alcoholic (maybe?). Soma should never be mixed with alcohol = death. Like GHB mixed with alcohol you won't wake up!

My posts may come across as "drug seeking" it's because I know my drugs before I ingest them! Most people will take what is prescribed to them without a clue what those drugs even are and what brain system they affect. I knew a women who drink beers with her sedatives and she wonders why she's screwed up. Even I'm cautious with my caffeine intake while on "stimulant" like amphetamine. Quitting caffeine had lessened my OCD, not a surprise. Caffeine especially of coffee origins I think are dirty.

I'm a little confused, and these two sedatives mentioned bring ups bad memories for me. And I don't want to frighten you, but please please be careful with testing out sleep type inducing medications... Soma are muscle relaxers, and can be highly addictive. not sure why that would be perscribed to be a sedative to sleep. There are many other options out there.... Yes it can make you sleepy but it purpose isn't just for that..

Also, I am throwing this out there since, it's how I lost my best friend. But on my friends 39th birthday, 3 years ago she had an accidental overdose and died. Toxicology report found low levels of soma and ambien in her system. That was it. That mixture even at low doses caused her death. Full disclosure, She had a previous lung issue from a trauma that almost took her life 8 months prior. She was stabbed at a bar during a major bar fight. But the final ruling of her death was accidental overdose..

So like a previous I poster, it can and has caused overdoses even at low levels with mixed together.

sarahsweets
01-14-16, 05:32 AM
please don't frighten us all...

anyone that prescribed her 2 "downers" like soma and ambien shouldn't be practicing medicine. Bad combo.
Im guessing that the doctor never intended for her to take them together so to say the doctor shouldnt be practicing medicine isnt all that fair. One is for sleep and one is a muscle relaxer. And she said it was low levels found in her blood so I am guessing maybe they werent taken together.

Add to that about the "bar fight" you mention which tells me she is an alcoholic (maybe?).
I am an alcoholic and have never been in a bar fight so your assumption isnt always accurate.


My posts may come across as "drug seeking" it's because I know my drugs before I ingest them!
Well if you know your drugs so well why ask at all?

Most people will take what is prescribed to them without a clue what those drugs even are and what brain system they affect. I knew a women who drink beers with her sedatives and she wonders why she's screwed up.
Nice empathy. I doubt if your friend meant to get screwed up by doing those two things together.

baical
01-14-16, 05:47 AM
I'm not sure I see it yet. I would think Medicaid only covers medicines for certain "diseases", not sure if not being able to sleep would be considered as such therefore probably would not be covered? I'm speaking of the 3 Z drugs available: ambien, sonata, lunesta.

Anyone here ever used Intermezzo? The light form of Ambien?

Your Medicaid Formulary will list the medications covered.

baical
01-14-16, 05:50 AM
Try the Xanax.

I'd prefer non benzos like the Z Drugs I mentioned. Xanax is for panic attacks, the Z drugs are for sleep aid. two different things.

baical
01-14-16, 05:55 AM
what I meant about the bar fight, since it was mentioned was that since the person was at the bar, I'm assuming she drinks/a drinker (could be an alcoholic), nothing at all about being an alcoholic starting bar fights.

Low levels or dose of 2 drugs especially downers can equal to feeling like a bigger dose. Say a small drink of 50% alcohol combined with a 50% alcohol. You get me? It becomes 100%, etc.

My friend drinks her pills with beer, instead of water. I couldn't do that with a multi vitamin.

Im guessing that the doctor never intended for her to take them together so to say the doctor shouldnt be practicing medicine isnt all that fair. One is for sleep and one is a muscle relaxer. And she said it was low levels found in her blood so I am guessing maybe they werent taken together.


I am an alcoholic and have never been in a bar fight so your assumption isnt always accurate.


Well if you know your drugs so well why ask at all?


Nice empathy. I doubt if your friend meant to get screwed up by doing those two things together.

baical
01-14-16, 05:58 AM
4 p.m. is when I take Dex, I sleep around 7 a.m. I'm nightshift.

By the way, the ZMA seems to work with getting me a good night sleep taken 30 minutes prior to. Look into it. It's OTC (zinc, magnesium aspartate and b6 combo).

What's the latest time of day that you've ever taken Dexedrine? And what time do you sleep?

baical
01-14-16, 06:06 AM
Desoxyn was said to work well with other comorbids.

My doc likes to look into his Nurse's drug book to see how much of Dex he can prescribe to me. Looks like I maxed out to 15 mg! How are you getting 20 mg to start with? Is it Zenzedi or you take 2 10 mg pills?

My doc does not like new meds like Zenzedi or Evekeo because the process to go through he said is a pain. Both those meds require prior authorization so does Desoxyn according to my insurance anyway, so I'm not sure how painful it is to get it all done. I'm ready to try Desoxyn.

He's already scratching his head why I was prescribed by my old doc another off label ADHD med called Lovaza (which is really just fish oil/omega-3s) which I take at night. My doc seem to not like giving 2 meds for ADHD plus he hasn't even heard of Lovaza. It supposed to stabilize moods. I like it.

I have been on week 4 and gotten past
1. Headches
2. Doses working well sometimes and not working well at other times
3. Instead of straight Insomnia I wake up with broken sleep like 3 time a night (still dreaming)
4. First week Paranoia has long gone.
5. Gone from insomnia for 2 nights, dropped to sometimes broken sleep (week 4)
6. Without benzodiazepine or good night sleep the focus productivity is under stress.
7. Currently taking 20mg Dextroamphetamine (not too much, but still producing some mild effect slowly getting better, but required Benzodiazepines to relax my Mind and Body or else the Stimulants don't work.

Currently Going to my Psychiatrist in 2 days to see if I need to go on Clonazepam ( I as on this medicaine before). I have been on this medication for 4 weeks and it is slowly getting better but I'm finding it's much better to goto a a Psychiatrist who isn't paranoid about the combination of Stimulants and one or two other serious medications, because often it takes more than simpy Ritalin or Dextroamphetamine or Adderall alone just to get over the first side effects, although that may not be talked about very often due to drug seekers, but push them aside, people DO need more than their simple Dex or Ritalin, theres plenty of side effects to combat and if not successful a persons life may be severely handicapped for the rest of their life.

The Australian Guidelines for Prescribing those With ADHD which includes the notice that there are commonly another one or two medications that need to be thrown in to keep Adult ADHD and other CoMorbid disorders under control.

http://www.australianprescriber.com/magazine/31/5/129/32

baical
01-14-16, 06:09 AM
Do you have a rare form of OCD called misophonia: bothered by certain sounds or noises?

I've read that using a weighted blanket can help with restless legs.

I run a fan at night to mask noises so I can sleep better. I'm very sensitive to noise.

Powderbucket
01-14-16, 09:34 AM
Not to sound too much like a hippie, but I run for 30 min or do a combination of exercises to "purge" the remnants of ADHD medication out my body at the end of the day. I can find no substitute that works as good as it. I also blast music while doing this and it seems to just bring myself back in. This can be followed by chamomile tea at home. I then take Trazadone 50mg one hour before bed to knock off.

sarahsweets
01-14-16, 10:21 AM
Desoxyn was said to work well with other comorbids.

My doc likes to look into his Nurse's drug book to see how much of Dex he can prescribe to me. Looks like I maxed out to 15 mg! How are you getting 20 mg to start with? Is it Zenzedi or you take 2 10 mg pills?

Do you mean total max amount for the day? Or per pill dose?

Lunacie
01-14-16, 11:20 AM
Do you have a rare form of OCD called misophonia: bothered by certain sounds or noises?

Misophonia may not be associated with ODC after all.

I have issues with over-sensitivity with all my senses: light, noise, taste, touch, smell ... omg, smells!

The sound of people eating has never bothered me, except for those who chew ice. It bothers my granddaughter though.

For me, it's the sound of bass stereo thumping or two-stroke motorcycle engines ... omg, the tinkle of the ice cream truck!

Socaljaxs
01-14-16, 12:28 PM
please don't frighten us all...
anyone that prescribed her 2 "downers" like soma and ambien shouldn't be practicing medicine. Bad combo. Add to that about the "bar fight" you mention which tells me she is an alcoholic (maybe?). Soma should never be mixed with alcohol = death. Like GHB mixed with alcohol you won't wake up!

My posts may come across as "drug seeking" it's because I know my drugs before I ingest them! Most people will take what is prescribed to them without a clue what those drugs even are and what brain system they affect. I knew a women who drink beers with her sedatives and she wonders why she's screwed up. Even I'm cautious with my caffeine intake while on "stimulant" like amphetamine. Quitting caffeine had lessened my OCD, not a surprise. Caffeine especially of coffee origins I think are dirty.


Wow, no words of your incredibly horrible and ridiculouslay insensitive assumptions... soery to burst your little bubble, but doctors have and will and do prescribe "2 downers" all the time.

Plus, not everyone that goes to a bar is an automatic classified as alcoholic... Many, many people go out to bars, (even people that are recovering from addiction as well), just to socialize with their friends, play pool, dance, throw darts, listen to music, sing Kereoke, celebrate other's birthday's ect..... to make the comment of she was In a bar fight so you automatic assumtion is " Add to that about the "bar fight" you mention which tells me she is an alcoholic (maybe?)." is just rediculous.. Not to mention the fight part was a because of a drunk guy that actually had a history of this behavior and not only did this horrific behavior previous to that night but again after that night as well, of starting fights and my friend and 6 other people were also victims that night of being stabbed.. The fight was taking out of the bar into the sidewalk where my friend was at...
That fight happened a year before hand, the night she lost her life, was a completely different night all together, I only mentioned the fight because, me mentioning any fatal connection I know if I prefer to offer all the facts verses just state bad combo here is why..


what I meant about the bar fight, since it was mentioned was that since the person was at the bar, I'm assuming she drinks/a drinker (could be an alcoholic), nothing at all about being an alcoholic starting bar fights.

Low levels or dose of 2 drugs especially downers can equal to feeling like a bigger dose. Say a small drink of 50% alcohol combined with a 50% alcohol. You get me? It becomes 100%, etc.

My friend drinks her pills with beer, instead of water. I couldn't do that with a multi vitamin.

You seem to know enough about sedatives and really not sure why you are even asking if the sort, when it is clear your knowledge is vastly addiquite of this class of medication.. So you don't want to take Xanax.. Ask for an alternative that you are a fan of

Greyhound1
01-14-16, 09:46 PM
***Moderator Note***
Please be courteous and respectful of one another and remember this is a support forum. There is no need to make negative assumptions or debate a tragic loss shared in a post.

Link to Etiquette guidelines http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15843

baical
01-15-16, 04:53 AM
Per day, doc only think 15 mg is the max for Dex Spansule. His book might be outdated way before Zenzedi came out. So before Zenzedi came out, what's the max dose a doctor can prescribe Dexendrine Spansule? Is it two 15 mg pills per day? I can't find the info. on drugs.com all I know is 5 mg twice a day was mentioned and was given to me first, etc. Now I'm on 15 mg max.

Do you mean total max amount for the day? Or per pill dose?

sarahsweets
01-15-16, 07:24 AM
Per day, doc only think 15 mg is the max for Dex Spansule. His book might be outdated way before Zenzedi came out. So before Zenzedi came out, what's the max dose a doctor can prescribe Dexendrine Spansule? Is it two 15 mg pills per day? I can't find the info. on drugs.com all I know is 5 mg twice a day was mentioned and was given to me first, etc. Now I'm on 15 mg max.

The daily recommended max for dexedrine is 60mg. I used to take 15mg spansules 3x a day. Now I take 10mg spansule and 10mg of ir 3x a day for a total of 60mg. Your doctor doesnt know what he is talking about.

Lunacie
01-15-16, 01:23 PM
Per day, doc only think 15 mg is the max for Dex Spansule. His book might be outdated way before Zenzedi came out. So before Zenzedi came out, what's the max dose a doctor can prescribe Dexendrine Spansule? Is it two 15 mg pills per day? I can't find the info. on drugs.com all I know is 5 mg twice a day was mentioned and was given to me first, etc. Now I'm on 15 mg max.

I'm sending you a PM with the link to drugs.com with that info ... can't post it here because that page contains advertising.

But this is what it says:

Extended Release Capsules:
Less than 6 years: Not recommended.

Greater than or equal to 12 years:
Initial Dose: Patients who are being switched from dextroamphetamine tablets may be converted to the same total dose where appropriate, taken once daily upon awakening.
Maintenance Dose: The daily dosage may be raised in increments of 10 mg at weekly intervals until an optimal response is obtained. Only in rare cases will it be necessary to exceed a total of 40 mg once daily. If bothersome adverse reactions appear (e.g., insomnia or anorexia), dosage should be reduced.

Funky1
01-15-16, 03:57 PM
The best sedative I've found to counter my adderall is unfortunately only available legally in three states at the moment. Works like a charm though.

Jocomama
01-16-16, 01:03 AM
ADHD is often accompanied by insomnia.
1. Stimulants provide us with our internal lack of a baseline stimulation, however as many of us PURE ADHD folks know, when we take them, it calms us. Unfortunately, in the evening when the stimulant wears off, we are then left with our racing minds.

2. Nortriptyline, an old school Tricyclic Anti-depressant, has some beneficial effects:
A. It is a tremendous sleep inducer.
B. It is a "2nd-line" medication for Adult ADHD (ref: Psychiatr Clin North Am. 2004 Jun;27(2):373-83. Review.)
C. The only potential risk may be "poor metabolizers" of CYP2D6 since both Nortriptyline and Stimulants (Amphetamine/Dextroamphetamine and Methylphenidate) go through 2D6. This is theoretical, since no outcomes studies have proven it.

3. Xanax is NOT a good solution. This is a co-existing disorder forum. Xanax is the MOST addicting non-opioid/opiate prescription medication. We have a 25-50% risk of self-medicating/Substance abuse/dependence just by being ADHD, especially if not diagnosed and treated pre-teenage.

4. SOMA vs XANAX? Xanax on its own is much safer than SOMA. Why? SOMA has a low LD-50 (Lethal Dose; dose at which 50% of subjects die); so if we take too many SOMA, high-risk. SOMA, by the way, breaks down to Meprobamate - which was the tranquilizer of choice before Valium was invented. Xanax, being a derivative of Valium (Benzodiazepine) has a high LD-50. Much safer. BOTH have risk of withdrawal - and yes, I have seen Xanax seizures from people taking them daily/nightly, increasing the dosage, then sudden discontinuation. Not pretty!

5. Gabapentin - YES! The magic for us ADHD sufferers. Tim Wilens, MD, top tier in the US for ADHD/co-occurring disorders from Harvard supports GABA, as does Rick Rosenthal, MD, Chairman of Psych at Columbia-St Lukes in NY. Only recently has their been consensus among addiction specialists, that some recovery patients are abusing Gabapentin. However it has not been proven in any evidence based study (yet); and those folks used to think addiction patients with ADHD couldn't take stimulants (like they believed witches wouldn't sink in the 1700s).

Summary: ADHD risk of self-med/dependence is significant. None of us can really afford to play with Xanax or Soma. Gaba is great, Nortriptyline super for sleep, chronic pain and prevention of headaches (all on Google or PubMed).
Ambien has risk for abuse, but Lunesta much less - (both Schedule 4 like Xanax).
Despite Clonazepam being a benzo/Valium derivative; it is less addicting ONLY because it doesn't kick in so quick, and much longer half-life.

So much more, but don't want to exceed forum etiquette.

baical
01-18-16, 09:18 AM
I'm curious if you are or if anyone else in this forum takes 2 ADHD stimulants at a time? My old psychiatrist have told me about "boosters" since I had asked about it and he said it's usually the same medication just in different release forms (like Dex Spansule with Dex IR tablets). I had inquired with my doc about a combo of Vyvanse and Adderall but he seemed hesitant. I would think 2 amphetamines of "different" molecules isn't recommended?

I have been on week 4 and gotten past
1. Headches
2. Doses working well sometimes and not working well at other times
3. Instead of straight Insomnia I wake up with broken sleep like 3 time a night (still dreaming)
4. First week Paranoia has long gone.
5. Gone from insomnia for 2 nights, dropped to sometimes broken sleep (week 4)
6. Without benzodiazepine or good night sleep the focus productivity is under stress.
7. Currently taking 20mg Dextroamphetamine (not too much, but still producing some mild effect slowly getting better, but required Benzodiazepines to relax my Mind and Body or else the Stimulants don't work.

Currently Going to my Psychiatrist in 2 days to see if I need to go on Clonazepam ( I as on this medicaine before). I have been on this medication for 4 weeks and it is slowly getting better but I'm finding it's much better to goto a a Psychiatrist who isn't paranoid about the combination of Stimulants and one or two other serious medications, because often it takes more than simpy Ritalin or Dextroamphetamine or Adderall alone just to get over the first side effects, although that may not be talked about very often due to drug seekers, but push them aside, people DO need more than their simple Dex or Ritalin, theres plenty of side effects to combat and if not successful a persons life may be severely handicapped for the rest of their life.

The Australian Guidelines for Prescribing those With ADHD which includes the notice that there are commonly another one or two medications that need to be thrown in to keep Adult ADHD and other CoMorbid disorders under control.

http://www.australianprescriber.com/magazine/31/5/129/32

baical
01-20-16, 09:17 AM
is there ever a way to find out if a doctor/psychiatrist specializes in specific mental health conditions? I want to seek a doc that knows ADHD and someone who does not have to open books to find out what the max dose I can get prescribed. Is this even possible? Does anyone's doc here ever opened a book to find out what doses meds come in? I know not everyone can memorize the dosages...

What dosages that the dex IR come in? 5, 10 and 15 as well?

The daily recommended max for dexedrine is 60mg. I used to take 15mg spansules 3x a day. Now I take 10mg spansule and 10mg of ir 3x a day for a total of 60mg. Your doctor doesnt know what he is talking about.

Socaljaxs
01-20-16, 10:26 AM
is there ever a way to find out if a doctor/psychiatrist specializes in specific mental health conditions? I want to seek a doc that knows ADHD and someone who does not have to open books to find out what the max dose I can get prescribed. Is this even possible? Does anyone's doc here ever opened a book to find out what doses meds come in? I know not everyone can memorize the dosages...

What dosages that the dex IR come in? 5, 10 and 15 as well?

Yes, there are many ways to find specialist for not just mental health but all forms of speciality doctors. Especially, if you live in the USA... Google in this case would be a big help for you in finding specialist in your area that are specializes in ADHD.. I don't know exactly where you live. in Google type in in ADHD doctor/psychiatrist specialist +your location. Or go with or with out quotes to lock in search. Or type ADHD+psychiatrist+ location

baical
01-21-16, 06:12 AM
Maybe the doc was confusing dextroamphetamine (IR) vs dexedrine spansules?

Is it a good idea to switch to IRs or keep the spansule?

The daily recommended max for dexedrine is 60mg. I used to take 15mg spansules 3x a day. Now I take 10mg spansule and 10mg of ir 3x a day for a total of 60mg. Your doctor doesnt know what he is talking about.

baical
01-22-16, 05:28 AM
but that is regarding DEX IR, not spansule though.

I'm sending you a PM with the link to drugs.com with that info ... can't post it here because that page contains advertising.

But this is what it says:

baical
01-22-16, 05:30 AM
Got this quote from the link you provided:

"The clinical effects of dexamphetamine and methylphenidate last for 34 hours on average, necessitating 23 times daily dosing."

I noticed that the first 4 hours everything's cool, after that it's like whatever. I only dose once, maybe 2x a day may help me?

I have been on week 4 and gotten past
1. Headches
2. Doses working well sometimes and not working well at other times
3. Instead of straight Insomnia I wake up with broken sleep like 3 time a night (still dreaming)
4. First week Paranoia has long gone.
5. Gone from insomnia for 2 nights, dropped to sometimes broken sleep (week 4)
6. Without benzodiazepine or good night sleep the focus productivity is under stress.
7. Currently taking 20mg Dextroamphetamine (not too much, but still producing some mild effect slowly getting better, but required Benzodiazepines to relax my Mind and Body or else the Stimulants don't work.

Currently Going to my Psychiatrist in 2 days to see if I need to go on Clonazepam ( I as on this medicaine before). I have been on this medication for 4 weeks and it is slowly getting better but I'm finding it's much better to goto a a Psychiatrist who isn't paranoid about the combination of Stimulants and one or two other serious medications, because often it takes more than simpy Ritalin or Dextroamphetamine or Adderall alone just to get over the first side effects, although that may not be talked about very often due to drug seekers, but push them aside, people DO need more than their simple Dex or Ritalin, theres plenty of side effects to combat and if not successful a persons life may be severely handicapped for the rest of their life.

The Australian Guidelines for Prescribing those With ADHD which includes the notice that there are commonly another one or two medications that need to be thrown in to keep Adult ADHD and other CoMorbid disorders under control.

http://www.australianprescriber.com/magazine/31/5/129/32

Lunacie
01-22-16, 11:58 AM
but that is regarding DEX IR, not spansule though.

This is what it says on the link I provided re Dex spansules:

Attention Deficit Disorder with Hyperactivity

The SPANSULE capsule formulation is not recommended for pediatric patients younger than 6 years of age.

In pediatric patients 6 years of age and older, start with 5 mg once or twice daily; daily dosage may be raised in increments of 5 mg at weekly intervals until optimal response is obtained. Only in rare cases will it be necessary to exceed a total of 40 mg per day.

SPANSULE capsules may be used for once-a-day dosage wherever appropriate.


Stimulant meds have only been tested on children, so your doctor may take into account that you're an adult.

baical
01-24-16, 05:45 AM
some psychaitrist are old and outdated to even follow the latest discoveries. Mine certainly woudn't have a clue what gabapentin is for. I tried to have him add Dex IR with my spansule, I didn't think he had any clue if there's a difference between the two nor he's aware IR vs. XR has different pharmacodynamics. He's really old. I think he's just holding on to his career in the final years. I'll stick with Dexedrine Spansule til I max out on the dose before I switch meds (and psychiatrist).

Is a combo of a stimulant with a seizure med like gabapentin contraindicated?

Sorry this is getting off topic.


ADHD is often accompanied by insomnia.
1. Stimulants provide us with our internal lack of a baseline stimulation, however as many of us PURE ADHD folks know, when we take them, it calms us. Unfortunately, in the evening when the stimulant wears off, we are then left with our racing minds.

2. Nortriptyline, an old school Tricyclic Anti-depressant, has some beneficial effects:
A. It is a tremendous sleep inducer.
B. It is a "2nd-line" medication for Adult ADHD (ref: Psychiatr Clin North Am. 2004 Jun;27(2):373-83. Review.)
C. The only potential risk may be "poor metabolizers" of CYP2D6 since both Nortriptyline and Stimulants (Amphetamine/Dextroamphetamine and Methylphenidate) go through 2D6. This is theoretical, since no outcomes studies have proven it.

3. Xanax is NOT a good solution. This is a co-existing disorder forum. Xanax is the MOST addicting non-opioid/opiate prescription medication. We have a 25-50% risk of self-medicating/Substance abuse/dependence just by being ADHD, especially if not diagnosed and treated pre-teenage.

4. SOMA vs XANAX? Xanax on its own is much safer than SOMA. Why? SOMA has a low LD-50 (Lethal Dose; dose at which 50% of subjects die); so if we take too many SOMA, high-risk. SOMA, by the way, breaks down to Meprobamate - which was the tranquilizer of choice before Valium was invented. Xanax, being a derivative of Valium (Benzodiazepine) has a high LD-50. Much safer. BOTH have risk of withdrawal - and yes, I have seen Xanax seizures from people taking them daily/nightly, increasing the dosage, then sudden discontinuation. Not pretty!

5. Gabapentin - YES! The magic for us ADHD sufferers. Tim Wilens, MD, top tier in the US for ADHD/co-occurring disorders from Harvard supports GABA, as does Rick Rosenthal, MD, Chairman of Psych at Columbia-St Lukes in NY. Only recently has their been consensus among addiction specialists, that some recovery patients are abusing Gabapentin. However it has not been proven in any evidence based study (yet); and those folks used to think addiction patients with ADHD couldn't take stimulants (like they believed witches wouldn't sink in the 1700s).

Summary: ADHD risk of self-med/dependence is significant. None of us can really afford to play with Xanax or Soma. Gaba is great, Nortriptyline super for sleep, chronic pain and prevention of headaches (all on Google or PubMed).
Ambien has risk for abuse, but Lunesta much less - (both Schedule 4 like Xanax).
Despite Clonazepam being a benzo/Valium derivative; it is less addicting ONLY because it doesn't kick in so quick, and much longer half-life.

So much more, but don't want to exceed forum etiquette.